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BTD Forums  /  Eat Right 4 Your Type  /  Deal with Vinegars?
Posted by: tolondontoparis, Monday, June 11, 2012, 5:04pm
I understand that the reason some vinegars are poision is because of the sources they are formed from, but are there any acceptable for Os/ O nonnies? Like ketchup would be totes okay, and even mayonnaise, if I could eat vinegar. I mean it doesn't give me an upset stomach, but I am trying to stick to this BTD for my skin's sake. I may just take the risk and bloody well eat them.
Posted by: ABJoe, Monday, June 11, 2012, 5:18pm; Reply: 1
The BTD rating for cider vinegar:
http://www.dadamo.com/typebase4/depictor5.pl?437

The BTD rating for other vinegar:
http://www.dadamo.com/typebase4/depictor5.pl?438
The list shows this to be a "gastric irritant", so repeated ingestion of this will probably cause constant digestive system irritation / inflammation / pain...
BTW, the food manufacturers use the cheapest they can find, so bet that any ingredients that show vinegar (with no further description) mean this.
Posted by: JJR, Monday, June 11, 2012, 7:22pm; Reply: 2
My doc says vinegar can also feed yeast.  
Posted by: ruthiegirl, Monday, June 11, 2012, 7:24pm; Reply: 3
It's not just about what the vinegars are fermented from. There's something about the vinegar-making process that turns healthy red wine into unhealthy red wine vinegar. I'm not sure exactly what though, if it's the acidity or something else.

When I'm overall feeling stronger, I'm not so picky about avoiding vinegar that's been fermented from compliant sources. I did use up the rice vinegar I purchased before starting BTD, and I've had the occasional sushi away from home, knowing it likely had rice vinegar in it. But I no longer purchase vinegar for cooking and I never used it regularly since starting BTD. I do buy corn-based distilled vinegar for household cleaning, and apple cider vinegar for body care (diluted as a hair rinse.)

Apple cider vinegar is neutral for O secretors. I have seen both mayo and ketchup made with apple cider vinegar in health food stores. Another option is to make your own ketchup and/or mayo with compliant ingredients, using lemon juice in place of the vinegar called for in the recipe. Lemon juice spoils faster than vinegar, so the resulting products probably won't keep as long as homemade condiments made with vinegar. Ketchup should freeze OK if you make a big batch and only keep a small amount in the fridge, but mayo gets a weird texture when frozen. That would need to be made frequently (once a week, if not twice) in small batches.
Posted by: Andrea AWsec, Monday, June 11, 2012, 7:26pm; Reply: 4
Vinegar sickles blood type A cells.
Posted by: cajun, Tuesday, June 12, 2012, 6:58pm; Reply: 5
Andrea,
Please explain further as I want to understand and be able to pass on this info.
Posted by: chrissyA, Tuesday, June 12, 2012, 8:26pm; Reply: 6
If you follow the BTD, and the brief answer to "why or why not" that is provided on the Food Values page is not satisfactory to you, you will have a tremendously difficult time following this eating plan. ??)  I appreciate your frustration - I truly do - but another way to look at it is that Dr. D and his staff of amazing scientists have far more sophisticated questions and answers than we do, and that if with their combined knowledge and expertise, and the astonishing battery of tests that they put all of these food through, if they tell me I'd be better off not eating some of my favorite foods :-/, then I simply trust the authority of the experts and believe in what they have learned. It's a choice I make.
Best of luck to you  :)
Posted by: JJR, Tuesday, June 12, 2012, 8:40pm; Reply: 7
The Encyclopedia of BTD, or whatever it's called, does explain a little about why.  And so do some of the books. Not necessarily every single food.  It's just a process.
Posted by: tolondontoparis, Tuesday, June 12, 2012, 8:57pm; Reply: 8
Quoted from chrissyA
If you follow the BTD, and the brief answer to "why or why not" that is provided on the Food Values page is not satisfactory to you, you will have a tremendously difficult time following this eating plan. ??)  I appreciate your frustration - I truly do - but another way to look at it is that Dr. D and his staff of amazing scientists have far more sophisticated questions and answers than we do, and that if with their combined knowledge and expertise, and the astonishing battery of tests that they put all of these food through, if they tell me I'd be better off not eating some of my favorite foods :-/, then I simply trust the authority of the experts and believe in what they have learned. It's a choice I make.
Best of luck to you  :)


So True!
Posted by: Andrea AWsec, Tuesday, June 12, 2012, 9:04pm; Reply: 9
I can only tell you what I have learned from Dr. D. I am an A Warrior vinegar bothers my stomach that is enough of a reason for me not to eat it. But if you need a photo here it is.


Vinegar sickles the blood cells of A's here is a picture of the difference between the two cells.

http://www.healthopedia.com/pictures/sickle-cell-anemia.html
Posted by: Lola, Wednesday, June 13, 2012, 6:26am; Reply: 10
that ought to convince everyone!
Posted by: Brett650, Wednesday, June 13, 2012, 6:59am; Reply: 11
Try some Umeboshi Plum vinegar, also known as Ume vinegar.

It's delicious (and rather salty), and it's listed as a superfood for me.

Technically it's not really vinegar, or so I'm told. Go figure.
Posted by: chrissyA, Wednesday, June 13, 2012, 2:11pm; Reply: 12
It's actually a brine
Posted by: JJR, Wednesday, June 13, 2012, 5:05pm; Reply: 13
I've seen it at my store and have been tempted to get some.  
Posted by: Spring, Wednesday, June 13, 2012, 6:10pm; Reply: 14
Quoted from Brett650
Try some Umeboshi Plum vinegar, also known as Ume vinegar.

Avoid for me.....
Posted by: Conor, Wednesday, June 13, 2012, 9:07pm; Reply: 15
Quoted from Brett650
Try some Umeboshi Plum vinegar, also known as Ume vinegar.

Although I don't think it's technically a true vinegar, have started using this as a compliant vinegar in fish marinades and in one vinaigrette. Quite good ... glad it's one of my superfoods so I didn't have to go totally vinegar-free. (:

As for tolondontoparis' original question, remember that vinegar is a mild acetic acid solution (better than Windex for cleaning grimy windows), and is created via the oxidation of ethyl alcohol by bacteria (Acetobacter). I've wondered before if vinegar didn't come about when someone let a bottle of wine go well beyond its drinkable stage but s/he was so hard up for a drink of wine that the thought process went something like this: "Yeah, it's really quite nasty but I'll drink it anyway." Then, somehow, this person convinced everyone else that it was good stuff (which is probably how the advent of 1,000-year-old pickled eggs in China came about, as well). <~; Seriously, though, I find it interesting that vinegar is essentially a fermented food or beverage item that has exceeded its 'best by' date and bacteria have metabolised the alcohol into acetic acid (a basic carboxylic acid). The food/beverage from which a particular vinegar originated is often considered to be healthy for human consumption, e.g., red or white wine, apple cider, honey and others, but possibly the process by which the good food is converted to vinegar ends up making the food item too caustic for normal, everyday consumption. Because, franky, vinegar is one of my regular go-to cleansers and disinfectants that I use around the house, and it works very well (but, believe you me, I also had a tough time kicking my 'Cesare' Aceto Balsamico Tradizionale out of the cupboard and to the curb :'().

The ingestion of too much vinegar at once, e.g., 8-16 ounces (such as the amounts some people have consumed in belief that vinegar is a cure for cancer), has been reported to cause hemolysis (i.e., your red blood cells rupture), renal failure and/or internal burns/adhesions.

On the other hand, I read a research abstract in which it stated that the study found, from a prophylactic therapy perspective, taking two tablespoons of vinegar immediately prior to a meal appeared to help control post-meal blood sugar spikes in people with type-2 diabetes.

So, like most anything, it has good and bad elements. However, if it's listed as an avoid food, that's the end of the story as far as I'm concerned. It has no place on the menu.
Posted by: tolondontoparis, Thursday, June 14, 2012, 1:16am; Reply: 16
Quoted from Conor

Although I don't think it's technically a true vinegar, have started using this as a compliant vinegar in fish marinades and in one vinaigrette. Quite good ... glad it's one of my superfoods so I didn't have to go totally vinegar-free. (:

As for tolondontoparis' original question, remember that vinegar is a mild acetic acid solution (better than Windex for cleaning grimy windows), and is created via the oxidation of ethyl alcohol by bacteria (Acetobacter). I've wondered before if vinegar didn't come about when someone let a bottle of wine go well beyond its drinkable stage but s/he was so hard up for a drink of wine that the thought process went something like this: "Yeah, it's really quite nasty but I'll drink it anyway." Then, somehow, this person convinced everyone else that it was good stuff (which is probably how the advent of 1,000-year-old pickled eggs in China came about, as well). <~; Seriously, though, I find it interesting that vinegar is essentially a fermented food or beverage item that has exceeded its 'best by' date and bacteria have metabolised the alcohol into acetic acid (a basic carboxylic acid). The food/beverage from which a particular vinegar originated is often considered to be healthy for human consumption, e.g., red or white wine, apple cider, honey and others, but possibly the process by which the good food is converted to vinegar ends up making the food item too caustic for normal, everyday consumption. Because, franky, vinegar is one of my regular go-to cleansers and disinfectants that I use around the house, and it works very well (but, believe you me, I also had a tough time kicking my 'Cesare' Aceto Balsamico Tradizionale out of the cupboard and to the curb :'().

The ingestion of too much vinegar at once, e.g., 8-16 ounces (such as the amounts some people have consumed in belief that vinegar is a cure for cancer), has been reported to cause hemolysis (i.e., your red blood cells rupture), renal failure and/or internal burns/adhesions.

On the other hand, I read a research abstract in which it stated that the study found, from a prophylactic therapy perspective, taking two tablespoons of vinegar immediately prior to a meal appeared to help control post-meal blood sugar spikes in people with type-2 diabetes.

So, like most anything, it has good and bad elements. However, if it's listed as an avoid food, that's the end of the story as far as I'm concerned. It has no place on the menu.


Wow! You know your stuff! Vinegar is just a crazy concoction, ahhahaa! We humans are crazy
Posted by: ruthiegirl, Sunday, June 17, 2012, 6:43pm; Reply: 17
I'm sure that the "first vinegar" was a result of "wine gone bad" and then a frugal housewife found something to do with it. It's quite useful for preserving foods, and can be used in small amounts to improve the flavors of dishes. In a time when "having enough food" was nowhere near a sure thing, people weren't  going to waste anything that might be useful. Vinegar was likely used as a food preservative (making pickles) when there wasn't enough salt available for cultured vegetables. It's certainly healthier to eat foods pickled in vinegar than it is to eat moldy foods or to starve.

But most of us on this forum are lucky not to live in that kind of scarcity. We can improve our health by avoiding certain foods and eating others instead. According to Dr D's research, vinegar is NOT a healthy food for most of us- it's essentially a completely spoiled food. Never mind that it's been consumed for centuries and is a part of most traditional diets, or that it can be made locally in  any climate (a big deal for "localvores" who wouldn't want to regularly consume lemon juice when lemon trees don't grow where they live, or "homesteaders" who want to grow all their own food.) Although I do wonder if brine from other cultured foods (grown locally) could be used as a vinegar replacement if you don't want to buy "non locally grown" citrus fruits. Would beet kvass work in place of lemon juice in a salad dressing?

If you want to follow Dr D's food advice, vinegar is something to avoid (with a few exceptions.) if you want to combine Dr D's advice with other dietary ideals, then you need to decide for yourself about vinegar.
Posted by: gulfcoastguy, Sunday, June 17, 2012, 8:20pm; Reply: 18
I'm glad I still have apple cider vinegar as a neutral. Lemons and limes are nice but a pain to squeeze.
Posted by: Conor, Sunday, June 17, 2012, 8:29pm; Reply: 19
Quoted from gulfcoastguy
Lemons and limes are nice but a pain to squeeze.

They used to be, I agree. Now I just use this beast:

Can press the juice out of about 20 limes/lemons in three minutes or so (of course, I really like lemons). (hugegrin)
Posted by: grey rabbit, Sunday, June 17, 2012, 8:36pm; Reply: 20
That is a fancy juicer Conor, but if I were going to spend that kind of money on one, I'd buy this one ;D
Posted by: Debra, Sunday, June 17, 2012, 10:59pm; Reply: 21
Interesting thread guys. thanks for starting it, tolondontoparis  :)
Posted by: Conor, Monday, June 18, 2012, 2:37am; Reply: 22
Quoted from grey rabbit
That is a fancy juicer Conor, but if I were going to spend that kind of money on one, I'd buy this one ;D

Too funny ... your juicer's designer, Philippe Starck, is the same person that designed a club in Dallas' West End District called the Starck Club. Some school mates and I used to make regular weekend roadtrips to Dallas from Austin to hang out there in the late '80s. (cool)
Posted by: paul clucas, Friday, June 22, 2012, 12:44am; Reply: 23
I don't remember how I learned this, but vinegar does the opposite action of green tea.  It would therefore demethylate the "front" parts of the genes that can encode for powerfully pathological weaknesses.

Unless it is neutral you might be better off living without it - and don't forget to drink some green tea.
Posted by: grey rabbit, Friday, June 22, 2012, 12:52am; Reply: 24
Conor, my daughter is a graphic designer and thinks Philippe Starck is awesome. I think the juicer looks really cool and alien.

Paul, thanks for the info. I've given up on everything except ume.
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