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BTD Forums  /  Supp Right For Your Type  /  Rhodiola advised, but is it an MAOI?
Posted by: 15353 (Guest), Tuesday, July 26, 2011, 9:50pm
I'm a type-O, probably non-secretor, but I'm not sure yet.

DrD recommends rhodiola rosea to type-Os as an adaptogen. He also recommends that type-Os avoid taking MAOIs. But I had heard that rhodiola rosea acts as an MAOI. I checked on pubmed.org and found a study that showed this.

So, does anyone have a commend on this contradiction in DrD's recommendations?

I'm interested because I seem to be sensitive to tyramine, which is metabolized by MAO. I am wary of foods that contain tyramine as well as anything that might inhibit MAO (especially since type-Os have relatively low MAO activity according to DrD).

Thanks,

Charlie
Posted by: Lloyd, Tuesday, July 26, 2011, 10:04pm; Reply: 1
The wikipedia article on MAOI's lists a number of herbals including rhodiola, ginkgo, tumeric (curcumin), yerba and eleuthero. Not to mention alkaloids found in coffee!  :o

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monoamine_oxidase_inhibitor

How much you get from any of these is another matter. If you are on an MAOI it might be important.

Individuality says that there may be a few that are sensitive enough that it matters for them, but not for the larger group.
Posted by: Lloyd, Tuesday, July 26, 2011, 10:08pm; Reply: 2
From the page on rhodiola:

Quoted Text
Rhodiola rosea may be effective for improving mood and alleviating depression. Pilot studies on human subjects[2][3][4] showed that it improves physical and mental performance, and may reduce fatigue.

Rhodiola rosea's effects are potentially mediated by changes in serotonin and dopamine levels due to monoamine oxidase inhibition and its influence on opioid peptides such as beta-endorphin,[5] although these specific neurochemical mechanisms have not been clearly documented with scientific studies.

Rhodiola is included among a class of plant derivatives called adaptogens which differ from chemical stimulants, such as nicotine, and do not have the same physiological effects.
Posted by: 15353 (Guest), Tuesday, July 26, 2011, 10:27pm; Reply: 3
Here's the study I found on pubmed

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=rhodiola%20monoamine%20oxidase

It makes sense that different individuals would be more or less sensitive, and I can see how in vitro MAOI activity might not correlate perfectly with what happens in the gut.

Thanks for the replies!
Posted by: Andrea AWsec, Tuesday, July 26, 2011, 11:51pm; Reply: 4
Why not give it a try and see how you feel? you can always stop it.
Posted by: 15353 (Guest), Wednesday, July 27, 2011, 12:13am; Reply: 5
Well I was taking it up until my most recent episodes. I can't be sure that the rhodiola made a difference, but I am pretty sure that tyramines are behind the experiences I've had. I'm going to be extra careful for a while in the hopes that following LR4YT will help me become one of those healthy people with a better tolerance for avoids!
Posted by: ruthiegirl, Wednesday, July 27, 2011, 12:36am; Reply: 6
There is a difference in the actions of natural herbs and pharmaceuticals. Just because MAOIs are contra-indicated for most Os doesn't mean that an herb with multiple functions, including slight MAOI, will have the same effect.

For you personally, with your unique medical history, rhodiola is either going to be extremely helpful and healing, or harmful for you. If it were me, I'd avoid it until I knew more. I don't take chances with my mental health!!

I can tell you from personal experience that avoiding wheat and innapropriate dairy are a HUGE boost to my mental health, along with making sure I get enough red meat and fish.
Posted by: snazzyshazz, Wednesday, July 27, 2011, 1:42am; Reply: 7
Hi Charlie, I am O+, non secretor (well, following non-secretor values, since I am actually Lewis double negative)and I have been taking rhodiola for some time now. I find it excellent! My depression doesn't seem to be exacerbated by it. In fact, my depression drastically improved after I began my swami program.
Posted by: 8717 (Guest), Wednesday, July 27, 2011, 3:33am; Reply: 8
Hi Charlie  ;D
Posted by: SquarePeg, Wednesday, July 27, 2011, 6:03pm; Reply: 9
I consider Rhodiola my "deserted island" supplement.  If I got stranded on a desert island, the one supplement I would absolutely not want to give up is Rhodiola Rosea.  But that's me.

Be sure to carefully search for and review errata on all the literature you're basing your decisions on, including the D'Adamo books.

Good luck.
Posted by: Symbi, Friday, July 29, 2011, 12:09am; Reply: 10
lol Squarepeg, wondered recently why desert islands are usually tropical then it twigged, deserted as in empty DOH!  ::) :D

My DH is O and we both tried Rhodiola (though it's an avoid for As I didn't realise).  I'm also sensitive to tyramines (maybe you're an Explorer too Charlie!).  It didn't seem to affect me that way much or it was just short lived and I avoid those foods anyway.  

What it did to for me and DH was put us in bed straight after taking the tablet and then wake up later wired.  It was Rhodiola rosea extract equiv. dry root 965mg maybe a big dose?

Here are some quotes from me before "MY DH tried a B vitamin with Rhodiola.  It made him very sleepy for a few hours and then stimulated.  So we tried it at night.  Not a good idea, he was drowsy during evening and then awake most of the night!  The next day he was more relaxed than usual (it's supposed to fight anxiety).  Maybe that was just lack of sleep hangover?"
you may like to read Jesi an O talks about it here too - http://www.dadamo.com/cgi-bin/Blah/Blah.pl?m-1304444269/s-7/highlight-rhodiola/#num7

Here's a quote from when I tried it before but remember I'm an A:
"Recently I tried rhodiola and that had a funny aftertaste that I didn't enjoy.  (also my adrenals were burning didn't like the stimulation).  Knew that I should have checked on here rather than general websites - it's recommended for Os not As.  Guess As don't need help breaking down adrenalin.  DH could use it though.  I reckon it was breaking down into a bad metabolite in my bod?? "
Posted by: SquarePeg, Friday, July 29, 2011, 7:09pm; Reply: 11
965mg sounds like a huge amount.  I take the Pure Encapsulations capsule.  I don't have time to check, but I think it's only 100mg or 200mg.

Thanks for the links!
Posted by: ruthiegirl, Friday, July 29, 2011, 11:01pm; Reply: 12
I'm currently using a 400 mg capsule, but that's the whole herb, not a potent extract. I selected that one because it was free of any questionable additives. I knew it would be less potent, but for a daily supplement, sometimes smaller is better, and I always have the option of taking more than one if necessary.
Posted by: WadeWilson, Thursday, November 8, 2012, 11:02pm; Reply: 13
Hi symbi,

where does it say that rhodiola should be avoided for type A's? i'm interested in trying this, but curious as to why it might be an avoid
Posted by: Possum, Thursday, November 8, 2012, 11:52pm; Reply: 14
WadeWilson it might take Symbi a while to get back to you as she has not been well lately...
Hopefully someone else can answer that question for you?!
Posted by: deblynn3, Friday, November 9, 2012, 12:14am; Reply: 15
Of topic, sorry, but glad to hear from you, Symbi, sorry your not feeling well. I was just wondering why I hadn't seen you on the forum lately.  

Which of the Doc's formula have Rhodiola in them? Seems I remember at least one.  
Posted by: Amazone I., Friday, November 9, 2012, 9:46am; Reply: 16
charlie please remember...*artwork* is liable to determined circumstances ..... ;)(evil)(ondrugs)........... :X
Posted by: Eric, Friday, November 9, 2012, 5:29pm; Reply: 17
From what I understand, there are different kinds of MAO inhibition.  The MAO-I in St. John's Wort is different from that in Rhodiola.  Someone call me on this if I'm wrong.  I just know, anecdotally, that I'm extremely... like, ridiculously, sensitive to hormone balance.  And Rhodiola has done nothing but good, while St John's and other avoid substances wreck me.
Posted by: Lola, Saturday, November 10, 2012, 3:47am; Reply: 18
yes, to each their own
http://www.dadamo.com/B2blogs/blogs/index.php/2006/03/13/collinsonia-canadensis-or-stoneroot?blog=26
Posted by: misspudding, Thursday, February 26, 2015, 10:51pm; Reply: 19
I just started taking rhodiola again and it's really over stimulating me right now. Anyone else notice this? Does it go away?

I used to take it 10-15 years ago when I was in grad school, but it was part of a complex with B-vitamins. It seemed only good back then, but my liver was probably functioning a lot better back then. I took 200 mg yesterday around lunch and went to bed with a migraine. I took 100 mg today and am feeling very "pew pew pew!" going on in my head right now. Maybe I'll drop down to 50 mg (not sure how).

Basically I'm just feeling very wired and not in a good way.

I haven't taken B-vitamins in a while and think maybe that's part of the problem. But I really want the rhodiola to work for me again. Help, fellow Explorers and sensitive types!
Posted by: misspudding, Thursday, February 26, 2015, 11:02pm; Reply: 20
Ahhh, now I see it has a very stimulating effect on the nervous system. Will back off and gradually cut back on the coffee. Perhaps that's the problem.

http://www.raysahelian.com/rhodiola.html
Posted by: Easy E, Friday, February 27, 2015, 2:01am; Reply: 21
I can do rhodiola in small amounts, like maybe 100 mg max in a day and it seems to help.  There are trace amounts in a supp my wife has.  I had taken up to 1500 mg a day this summer for like a week to help with my new job (lots of details and organizing to learn).  May work better with O types but I heard of A types and others do well on it.

Similar herbs more recommended for my blood type generally as well as rhodiola all make me irritable and over focused in a way.  Ginseng and bacopa also did this in a differe.t type of way and they are in cortiguard.  Rhodiola is in catechol.  

I am trying cortiguard now because I want to be invincible and impervious to all stress and also have nearly psychic concentration powers.  In other words, function in modern society!
Posted by: Lola, Friday, February 27, 2015, 2:26am; Reply: 22
so glad I got that addiction behind me.....  ::) ;D
Posted by: misspudding, Friday, February 27, 2015, 2:58am; Reply: 23
Quoted from Easy E
I can do rhodiola in small amounts, like maybe 100 mg max in a day and it seems to help.  There are trace amounts in a supp my wife has.  I had taken up to 1500 mg a day this summer for like a week to help with my new job (lots of details and organizing to learn).  May work better with O types but I heard of A types and others do well on it.

Similar herbs more recommended for my blood type generally as well as rhodiola all make me irritable and over focused in a way.  Ginseng and bacopa also did this in a differe.t type of way and they are in cortiguard.  Rhodiola is in catechol.  

I am trying cortiguard now because I want to be invincible and impervious to all stress and also have nearly psychic concentration powers.  In other words, function in modern society!


Ha! Good luck with that!

It was way too stimulating for me. When I took it before, it was with a supplement that had a ton of b6, :-theanine, GABA, holy basil, and some other calming things.

In hindsight, it was probably the GABA.

https://irwinnaturals.com/files/supp_facts/stressdefyND.jpg
Posted by: misspudding, Friday, February 27, 2015, 3:01am; Reply: 24
Quoted from Lola
so glad I got that addiction behind me.....  ::) ;D


I had it behind me a couple of times over the last couple of years. I suspect, for me, it'll be like gluten. I'll finally kick it and won't want it again. It took for freaking ever with gluten.
Posted by: The Mystic, Friday, February 27, 2015, 5:00am; Reply: 25
Quoted from misspudding
I had it behind me a couple of times over the last couple of years. I suspect, for me, it'll be like gluten. I'll finally kick it and won't want it again. It took for freaking ever with gluten.

MissP, can I every relate. I went off wheat (and other avoids) for two years. It was the healthiest two years of my adult life. BUT... when I started eating it again, it took me 15 years to finally give it up. That seems like 'freaking forever' for sure. (dizzy)

Getting more regular exercise to regulate/modulate my stress hormones may be one of the factors that has kept me off of wheat.
Posted by: misspudding, Friday, February 27, 2015, 6:11am; Reply: 26
Wow, 15 years! There's hope for me and coffee yet!!#
Posted by: The Mystic, Friday, February 27, 2015, 6:20am; Reply: 27
Quoted from misspudding
Wow, 15 years! There's hope for me and coffee yet!!#


Yep there is. Finding a replacement or two helps.

There's a strategy out there. Finding what works for you is the key. I've never had a relationship with coffee. But I've known several Type Os who do. Good luck finding just the right key.  (smile)
Posted by: Easy E, Friday, February 27, 2015, 4:18pm; Reply: 28
Rhodiola I remember reading slows caffeine metabolism too.  Rhodiola plus coffee will probably produce strong stimulation that lasts for awhile.
Posted by: Jane, Friday, February 27, 2015, 5:39pm; Reply: 29
Dr. D's Catechol actually helps me.  I started taking it when my father was dying and I had to make all the decisions and was so stressed.  Helps me!
Posted by: misspudding, Friday, February 27, 2015, 5:43pm; Reply: 30
Quoted from Easy E
Rhodiola I remember reading slows caffeine metabolism too.  Rhodiola plus coffee will probably produce strong stimulation that lasts for awhile.


Ahhhh. Well *that* explains a few things.

I had another headache that felt like a migraine last night, but a lot shorter in duration than a usual migraine (a few hours versus a whole day).
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