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O's & no protein breakfast  This thread currently has 1,777 views. Print Print Thread
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Mother
Wednesday, May 30, 2012, 3:42pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

56% Hunter secretor swami
Ee Dan
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Location: wisconsin
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Do any of you O's do better with a non protein breakfast? I have recently discovered that as soon as I eat protein in the morning, I get hungrier and my energy drops. I seem to do better with a higher fat breakfast. Lately it's been some veggies with flavored mayo based sauce or collards with tahini or something like that. I don't do grains or fruit or any starchy carbs. I seem to fight hunger and always have but now it seems 20 min after I eat protein, I'm hungry again.
The higher fat/ veggie thing seems to keep my blood sugar more stable as well.


Thanks for any input


56% hunter secretor

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Mother  -  Wednesday, May 30, 2012, 6:58pm
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Henriette Bsec
Wednesday, May 30, 2012, 4:00pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

swamied nomad chameleon receptor worldview
Kyosha Nim
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Emma seem to do best with a high fat /medium protein bf ?
Her favourites are veggies and eggs based with plenty of Ghee/butter or feta/mozzarella cheese.
Have you tried eating more fat with your protein ?


ENFP -naturalist, visual/spatial and musical/verbal/chatty Dane- living with DD Emma age 19,
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Conor
Wednesday, May 30, 2012, 4:14pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Hi Mother, I second Henriette Bsec about the increased fat with protein. For example, when I eat poached eggs on a bed of plain greens for breakfast, I'll be hungry again much sooner than if I first tossed the steamed greens in a tablespoon of olive oil (EVOO). Too, oftentimes I'll save about a quarter-cup of beans from the previous night's supper and eat them with breakfast mixed with some salsa. If a pseudocereal such as quinoa is one of your supperfoods, you might try it for breakfast as it not only digests more slowly but is a decent source of plant protein, too.



Compliant, me?!? ... I even attended a university whose mascot is one of my ◆ Superfoods!
What is food to one man is bitter poison to others. ~ Titus Lucretius Carus
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ruthiegirl
Wednesday, May 30, 2012, 4:18pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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I always eat protien with fat. Breakfast is usually whole eggs cooked in ghee with lots of veggies, but sometimes I'll have sardines in olive oil over a bed of lettuce. Sometimes I'll eat beef and veggies in the mornings. In either case, I'm eating ample quantities of fat, protien,and veggies. If I ever eat lean meat without added fat, it won't hold me at all, no matter what time of day it is.


Ruth, Single Mother to 19yo   O- Leah (in Israel for the school year), 17yo O- Hannah, and  12yo B+ Jack


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marjorie
Wednesday, May 30, 2012, 4:59pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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I seeem to do better with not alot at breakfast, however, my workout schedule keeps changing which makes things a little different.

I need protein in the am if I am going to eat at all. Today, I had 2 egg whites, a little bit of beef ( 1/8 of a pound) and veggies at 10.

I did a weight training class at 6 am but was not hungry until 10.

If I dont workout in the am, I usually wait to eat until 12.
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Spring
Wednesday, May 30, 2012, 5:47pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from ruthiegirl
I always eat protien with fat. Breakfast is usually whole eggs cooked in ghee with lots of veggies, but sometimes I'll have sardines in olive oil over a bed of lettuce. Sometimes I'll eat beef and veggies in the mornings. In either case, I'm eating ample quantities of fat, protien,and veggies. If I ever eat lean meat without added fat, it won't hold me at all, no matter what time of day it is.

Ruthie, I had to laugh when you mentioned eating sardines for breakfast! If I thought I was going to have to get up and eat sardines, I think I would have nightmares!! HOWEVER, if I were hungry enough, I could probably eat something a lot worse on my taste buds!    The last time I ate them several weeks ago, it took me two days to get down a small can. I wish I could figure out a way to enjoy them! I really do! Maybe I simply need to eat them between meals like medicine and just get it over with as quickly as possible! Sardines are one thing I can't just put in a capsule!


"We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid." -- Benjamin Franklin
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marjorie
Wednesday, May 30, 2012, 5:48pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Ee Dan
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Quoted from Spring

Ruthie, I had to laugh when you mentioned eating sardines for breakfast! If I thought I was going to have to get up and eat sardines, I think I would have nightmares!! HOWEVER, if I were hungry enough, I could probably eat something a lot worse on my taste buds!    The last time I ate them several weeks ago, it took me two days to get down a small can. I wish I could figure out a way to enjoy them! I really do! Maybe I simply need to eat them between meals like medicine and just get it over with as quickly as possible! Sardines are one thing I can't just put in a capsule!


Totally agree-- I just cant stomach sardines.
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Mother
Wednesday, May 30, 2012, 7:08pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

56% Hunter secretor swami
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Getting enough fat is definately not my problem. It actually makes up the majority of my calories. I'm trying to keep my blood suage stable so I am low carb (no grains or starch, very little fruit and no sugar except maybe a small bite of dark chocolate).I'm also adequate protein ( about 50 g animal protein) and the rest is non starchy veg and fat. When I ate more protein, my blood sugar was high and I was always HUNGRY! Now I could eat at any given time but I'm not starving. When people say you should be able to last 4 or 5 hours without eating I have to laugh. I can only do that in my sleep. I also eat small (like a letuuce wrap) throughout the day because if I eat an small/ average MEALS, I'm hungrier. I do much better with the hunger game picking throughout the day. Fat does help but there is still something off with the protein

Ruthie, I could eat sardines anytime!


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marjorie
Wednesday, May 30, 2012, 10:39pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Hunter/Aquarious/Counselor
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Quoted from Mother
Getting enough fat is definately not my problem. It actually makes up the majority of my calories. I'm trying to keep my blood suage stable so I am low carb (no grains or starch, very little fruit and no sugar except maybe a small bite of dark chocolate).I'm also adequate protein ( about 50 g animal protein) and the rest is non starchy veg and fat. When I ate more protein, my blood sugar was high and I was always HUNGRY! Now I could eat at any given time but I'm not starving. When people say you should be able to last 4 or 5 hours without eating I have to laugh. I can only do that in my sleep. I also eat small (like a letuuce wrap) throughout the day because if I eat an small/ average MEALS, I'm hungrier. I do much better with the hunger game picking throughout the day. Fat does help but there is still something off with the protein

Ruthie, I could eat sardines anytime!


Mother-- you make some good points regarding fats. I guess I always think because I am hi protein lo carb that this is great for me, however, maybe if I incorporate more fat instead of all protein and veggies it would help me feel more satisfied.

I do eat grass fed beef (95%lean) so in this little brain, I think" great, I am eating some fat". When I start to look at what I do everyday, maybe a slight increase in ghee or butter would be more fulfilling. I have tried the all veggies, more fruit or more grains and I KNOW for sure this is not what I am lacking. I do much better on low carb.

On the other hand, maybe I am not missing anything and all is well. Sometimes, analyzing too much makes me think something is wrong or I need more of a specific nutrient.

I count my blessings everyday to have the passion and wisdom to explore good health, but sometimes I can overdo it!
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Andrea AWsec
Wednesday, May 30, 2012, 10:41pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Spring

Ruthie, I had to laugh when you mentioned eating sardines for breakfast! If I thought I was going to have to get up and eat sardines, I think I would have nightmares!! HOWEVER, if I were hungry enough, I could probably eat something a lot worse on my taste buds!    The last time I ate them several weeks ago, it took me two days to get down a small can. I wish I could figure out a way to enjoy them! I really do! Maybe I simply need to eat them between meals like medicine and just get it over with as quickly as possible! Sardines are one thing I can't just put in a capsule!


What kind of sardines are you trying to eat?




MIFHI

"Do not try to satisfy your vanity by teaching a great many things. Awaken people's curiosity. It is enough to open minds; do not overload them." Anatole France

"Healthy people have the least overt symptoms from eating avoid foods." Dr. D'Adamo
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Mother
Wednesday, May 30, 2012, 11:07pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

56% Hunter secretor swami
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Marjorie,
Too much protein causes blood sugar troubles too. Protein takes 2 to 3 hours to peak and then I'm eating again. . You either need carbs or fat for fuel, not protein. Protein shopuld just be a building block. I too am low carb and do so much better that way but I eat a ton of fat and I am by no means fat. The amount of fat is of course individual but if I'm low carb ( 20-30) from non starchy veg and 50g of protein, I have to get my calories and energy from somewhere and that leaves fat. (healthy of course) when I ate the amount of protein SWAMI had for me, my cholesterol was too high. When I backed down and went heavy fish, they were much better. High protein is not for me. Low carb, moderate protein and high fat is the best for my chemistry, at least today. lol. things always seem to evolve. (BTW, my digestion os so much better since backing way down on the red meats)


56% hunter secretor
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Possum
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Ee Dan
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I seem to do best on that sort of regime too Mother! I also read recently that if you over do the amount of protein it will still cause an insulin release & converts a certain amount to glucose & gets stored as fat too, hence the feeling hungry soon after again - the effect of insulin & blood sugar levels Anyone else know more about this?

In other words, apparently if you overeat either protein or veggie carbs (which is somewhat hard to do, depending on the veggies you're eating), you're going to hinder weight loss. Because they both cause an insulin response/produce glucose/stop fat from being used for energy, while they are around.
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Mother
Thursday, May 31, 2012, 1:02am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

56% Hunter secretor swami
Ee Dan
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Possum,
It's called gluconegenisis (spelling?) the conversion of excess protein to glucose. Excess protein was a problem for me, both with digestion and blood sugar. I thought the only thing I could digest was protein and fat but as soon as I cut way back on protein, I could eat all the veggies and nuts etc without issue. Seems protein was holding things up. I don't seem to have a problem with veggies as carbs, though it's mostly broccoli, spinach, chard, onion and chopped artichoke. I eat romaine lettuce wraps with a small amount of protein, my olive oil mayo, onion, artichoke, swipe of homemade hummus, cilantro or basil pesto. I eat about 1 every hour or two, then dinner is a small salad with spinach or various other lettuces and a small amount of protein. Snacks are broccoli dipped in mayo or collards or hummus and celery and carrots or a finger full of tahini. I usually need two small bites of fruit after dinner, like 2 cherries. haha. people think I'm nuts eating just two.  This seems to keep the hungry horrors away and keep blood sugar stable. MOST of my protein is fish. Most of my portions are 1-2 oz but several times a day. What does your meal plan look like?

Marjorie, I wanted to also say that the majority of my fat is olive/sesame/rice bran or walnut oil. I tried larger saturated fat and my cholesterol as well as my weight went up.


56% hunter secretor
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Possum
Thursday, May 31, 2012, 2:41am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Rh- Expluntherer... It means I'm an O...;-)
Ee Dan
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Oh wow thanks!! I am dead sure that is what could be happening to me!! Well I mentioned that to the right person eh?  
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marjorie
Thursday, May 31, 2012, 3:20am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Mother- thanks so much for the insight. I wonder if this is why I am falling out of ketosis ( which works for me) when I am eating too much protein?

does working out have an impact because keep in mind, I do heavy weights or aerobics for at least an hour a day.

tell me how you make your mayo? also, do you just eat fish or do you put some chicken in those wraps?
I might need more protein than 50 grams but I still think I could cut back a little... might help the waistline!
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Mother
Thursday, May 31, 2012, 3:57am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

56% Hunter secretor swami
Ee Dan
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Possum,
Is your blood sugar up? Do you have digestive trouble? 58% of protein gets converted to glucose. When in ketosis we only need about 80g glucose for the brain. So you can take about 1/2 your protein grams and count them as carbs then eat the rest in non starchy veg. I started tracking my BS after I found this out and sure enough, with very few carbs and 100g of protein, my sugar was creeping up. The Rosedale Diet is what I found works with SWAMI foods. There's a formula to use and for me because I'm thin is 1/2 my body weight in protein including veg protein and lots of non starchy veggies and the rest of the calories from fat.He also says lower saturated fat and that too made a huge difference. I NEVER thought I could survive on such little protein but I feel SO much better. The diet is about leptin and blood sugar. This lower amount of protein is the BEST thing for my digestion. You are also to eat 15-20g at a time spread out throughout the day. That's 2-2.5 oz at a time. Also eat small. It hit a mark with me when I read it because the more I ate, and the more protein I ate, the hungrier I got. It takes a bit of weighing and a little time to adjust but it works great for me. Hope this helps


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Mother
Thursday, May 31, 2012, 4:06am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

56% Hunter secretor swami
Ee Dan
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Marjorie,
cutting back on protein AND saturated fat helped everything. Digestion and I dropped over 10 pounds in a very short time, just by doing that. I thought there was no way possible I could eat that little protein but I feel so much better. I put chicken, turkey, cornish hen, beef, bison, lamb or whatever in the wraps, just not a ton of it. Like a half a slice of Applegate Farms roast beef or 2TBS tuna or salmon or ground meat of some sort. I just eat far more fish than meat or poultry. Does me well. I also exercise alot and the protein requirements don't change much. I haven't lost muscle. In fact my hubby says I look more defined. Protein makes me hungry but we still need it, just maybe not as much as we think we do


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Possum
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Oooh thanks again Mother!! I actually don't get hungry as such & don't crave carbs, now that I am going super low in carbs, so I think my blood sugar is ok, but I wasn't losing weight despite going back down the low carbs route - in fact I had put on quite a bit prior to trying this... Now I just maintain after an initial loss, so that tip re how much protein gets converted to carbs sure makes sense!!

I think I do have trouble digesting - not so much that I get indigestion but I breakout if I eat nuts etc...even meat sometimes I always assumed it was because the beast might have eaten soy/grains etc but it doesn't always happen so that sure could explain it!!

The Rosedale diet principles sound about the same as the New Revised Atkins... I can't quite work out yet though, exactly how much protein I should be eating ie how to work out how much actual protein is in each serve of meat/fish etc
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Mother
Thursday, May 31, 2012, 4:27am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

56% Hunter secretor swami
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you can convert 1 oz of protein to roughly 7g. so 2 oz would be about 14g. Veg protein should be included in your totals as well. I don't know what you weigh, or want to weigh but it's usually about .8-1x your weight in kg. To find kg, divide your weight by 2.2. If you are over weight there's probably a different formula to get to your desired weight. Or the the % route is let's say 1400 calories x 18% protein =252 calories. divide that by 4 because there are 4 calories per gram of protein.That ='s 63. Then divide that by 7 to get approx ounces=9. Then lets say you eat 15g of protein in veg and nuts and beans. subtract that 15g from the 63 and you now have 48. divide that by 7 and you should get 6.8 oz animal protein. Did you follow me? It is actually like the revised Atkins and that worked for me. I just use swami foods now and eat on the lower end of there recommended protein. Fish is very easy to digest, meat seems to just sit there and stop everything else.


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Mother
Thursday, May 31, 2012, 4:32am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

56% Hunter secretor swami
Ee Dan
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I forgot to mention, excess protein definately stalled my weight loss!


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Possum
Thursday, May 31, 2012, 4:56am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Ee Dan
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Talking about digesting - I am going to have to take that one slow to work it out... but thanks heaps

Yeah I am trying to do Atkins too, but O type compliant!! Absolutely NO bacon or artificial sweeteners, which they seem to love lol

I am a Nonnie so am supposed to eat more protein but definitely been over doing it Meat doesn't stop me up as much as lack of enough veggies with it & fat!! Flax does seem to help too... I did better the week I ate more* of that - made sardine cakes with it (*well according to Atkins principles )

Makes sense too re not over doing the meat, as I remember I felt better & lost weight including rice one day, which made no sense to my Atkins confused mind...
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Mother
Thursday, May 31, 2012, 12:18pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

56% Hunter secretor swami
Ee Dan
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No sense is right! Atkins, Primal Blueprint, Metabolic typing, Living the Low Carb Life, tons of books say high protein but as soon as I cut back, I lost a bunch right out of the gate. If you really look at it though, the keep using the word high protein but if you do the calculations, it's really only about 20% of caloroies. Then they're high fat. Even Swami, and ER says all over the place high protein, for me with larger portions is 11 oz a day on the high side and 7 on the low side. 7 is 1 egg, 3 oz for lunch and 3 for dinner, not including the protein from beans or nuts or greens. I don't consider that high protein, actually, I consider that low. Meat doesn't stop me up, it just seems to slow everything down and feel heavy, something you may not notice until you stop eating as much. I just feel tons lighter. Another thing I noticed with less is more energy. If you try it, let me know how it goes.


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marjorie
Thursday, May 31, 2012, 3:37pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Mother
No sense is right! Atkins, Primal Blueprint, Metabolic typing, Living the Low Carb Life, tons of books say high protein but as soon as I cut back, I lost a bunch right out of the gate. If you really look at it though, the keep using the word high protein but if you do the calculations, it's really only about 20% of caloroies. Then they're high fat. Even Swami, and ER says all over the place high protein, for me with larger portions is 11 oz a day on the high side and 7 on the low side. 7 is 1 egg, 3 oz for lunch and 3 for dinner, not including the protein from beans or nuts or greens. I don't consider that high protein, actually, I consider that low. Meat doesn't stop me up, it just seems to slow everything down and feel heavy, something you may not notice until you stop eating as much. I just feel tons lighter. Another thing I noticed with less is more energy. If you try it, let me know how it goes.


Everything you said makes perfect sense regarding the protein. I am just so concerned that I will be starving if I cut back on my protein... probably more mental than anything.

A guess a good rule of thumb is to try and stick to 3-4 oz at lunch and 3-4 oz at dinner. Does that  sound reasonable-- I still seem to crave more protein everytime I try and cut back. Will I adjust in time... geez,  I hope so.
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ruthiegirl
Thursday, May 31, 2012, 3:54pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Mother
when I ate the amount of protein SWAMI had for me, my cholesterol was too high. When I backed down and went heavy fish, they were much better.


Fish is still protein.

Did you cut back on total protein consumption, or did you swap out red meat for fish and keep your protein intake the same?


Ruth, Single Mother to 19yo   O- Leah (in Israel for the school year), 17yo O- Hannah, and  12yo B+ Jack


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Mother
Thursday, May 31, 2012, 8:04pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

56% Hunter secretor swami
Ee Dan
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Ruthie,
I realize fish is protein, haha. I cut way back on protein in general as well as swapped out red in favor of fish. Example, I used to eat a can of sardines or tuna for breakfast, say a chicken thigh and leg for lunch and a burger for dinner. sometimes snack on a hard boiled egg or a few bites of chicken. Now I eat that in about two days.

Marjorie, trust me, I understand your concern as it was mine as well. It was much easier than I thought. I felt lighter and full of energy. Soon I didn't crave any at all. Now I eat it because I know I have to but I'm careful not to overeat it or I'll feel bogged down and tired. I eat tons of veggies and can digest them with ease as long as I don't have a large protein with them. There's only one way to find out...try it


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