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Type O Feeling Worse  This thread currently has 1,443 views. Print Print Thread
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katrine
Saturday, March 19, 2005, 3:31pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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hello everyone

I have only visited this forum a few times but I have been aware of the BTD for several years.  I have finally committed myself to the trying it about 3 weeks ago and frankly, I'm feeling worse.  Here's my story:

For about 25 years I ate a mostly vegetarian diet with lots of grains/pasta/bread.  Gained a lot of weight and was overall miserable: depressed, sluggish, sleepy, fuzzy brained, etc.
Then in 2002 I decided to go LOW CARB.  I can't tell you the tremendous difference I felt.  It was as if I had been sick for 25 years and had miraculously recovered after about 2 days of eating very low carb.  I had such amazing energy and my head was clear.  I believe I was in a state of ketosis which is probably one of the best feelings I've ever had in my life!

When I heard about the BTD diet, it fit me very well and made so much more sense to me than those extreme low carb diets.   But after a few weeks of really trying to eat according to the type O plan, I don't feel nearly as good as I did with the extreme low carb way of eating.   And mind you, I still eat very minimal grains and minimal dairy.  I eat nuts, some fruit and mixed greens almost daily....of course, this is in addition to the protein with every meal and sometimes as a snack as well.  Protein is in the form of fish, chicken, venisen and sometimes buffalo or range fed beef.

Honestly, I feel as if I am eating better now than I have in years (except for the chocolate chips in my nut/raisin mix).  And still I don't feel so good.  I'm a little sluggish, a little fuzzy in the head and I'm having trouble gettting up in the morning again.  This was a problem in my heavy carb days.

Is this how it is?  Am I to expect that I will never feel as good again as I did in that state of ketosis?  

I'd be interested in knowing if any other type O's have had a similar experience.  

Thanks for hearing me out!

Kathy



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MissileCop
Saturday, March 19, 2005, 4:17pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Sam Dan
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Location: The Tiny State of New Hampshire
Hi Kathy!!  

 Sorry to hear about the brain fuzz, and sluggishness.  Know all too well about what you're feeling.

 Using my own experience as a guide, try cutting back on the amount of protein that you take in.  I've found that if I have a good amount of protein, I tend to get tired after my meals, or wake up feeling sluggish.  Try not to have meat protein in the evening.  Limit it to breakfast and lunch.  I've found that once I cut meat out of my dinner menu, my sleep improved.  If it's not a workout night for me, I don't eat any meat after 5-6 p.m.  If I've worked out, I do have some protein for the muscles.  

  I don't know what your eating schedule is, but try not to eat too much later in the evening.  If you do, keep it light.  My rule is a handful of something (grapes, walnuts, carob-covered almonds)  That's usually enough to tie me over 'til bedtime.

  Everybody is different, so you might have to experiment to see which foods are causing your issues.  I'm sure that with a little experimentation, you'll find your answer.  And then slap yourself on the head, thinking "Dang! Why didn't I think of this sooner?"  


The most important letter in the alphabet is the letter L.  
Without it, we would not experience the most important qualities of our existence; Living, Loving, Learning, Laughing.

MC- One vertically challenged guy, trying to become a muscle-bound Oompa-Loompa.  
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Don
Saturday, March 19, 2005, 4:21pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Rh-, MN
Sam Dan
Posts: 7,189
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Location: North Alabama
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What is different about how you were eating before when you felt good and now?

You may be Type O non-secretor.  If so, your food list changes and you have to be very careful about avoiding most grains and sugars.

Do you eat enough red meat?  I would recommend red meat 1-2 times a day.  I recommend that you have cooked or salad greens 2-3 meals a day.


FIFHI; ISTP;
Started BTD 3/2002, with 2 O- secretor teenage sons
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Melissa_J
Saturday, March 19, 2005, 5:55pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Hunter
Sa Bon Nim
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You didn't mention if you're losing weight...I always go through a major detox when I first start to lose weight, as all the toxins stored in the fat cells go on their way out.

You could try some of the detoxification protocol, if that could be part of the problem.  You can also increase the protein and decrease the carbs further, since low-carb worked well for you before.  Any new foods you could be reacting too?  I don't do well with too much chicken, maybe there's something you're eating more of that isn't agreeing with you?

It could take some detective work, but it's worth sticking it out.


Type O+ blogger, secretor afterall. Gluten intolerant. With two gluten intolerant sons:  A+ Secretor 10 yo (also fructose intolerant and slightly egg allergic), and  O- 7yo.
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katrine
Saturday, March 19, 2005, 6:10pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Thank you all for your suggestions!   I will take them to heart and start experimenting.  I work late and sometimes dont eat dinner till 7 or 8 in the evening, but that didn't bother me when I was eating very low carb.

I don't know if I'm a non-secretor, but given my strong constitution and the fact that I am almost never sick even when everyone else around me is, I think I'm a secretor.....However, it's probably worth finding out for sure.

The way I was eating when I felt sooooo good (ketosis) was less than 30 grams of carbs a day and those carbs were mostly salad greens and maybe an ounce of nuts.  The rest of my meal diet was fat and protein, in that order, including cheese.

I still normally eat between 4-8 cups of salad a day and I don't load on the dressing.  I eat small amounts of cheese now.  I eat red meat, venison or bison, at least once a week maybe more.  I eat tuna, salmon, chicken breast.....I was eating all these things on the LOW CARB diet also.

Basically, what I am eating now that I wasn't eating before is fruit (apple juice int he morning and maybe 1/2 banana with protein mix), more nuts & seeds, and Manna bread about 1-2 servings per week.  I've had about 2 servings of oatmeal in the past 3 weeks also.  I will have a few tortilla chips, Sesame blues, if they're around (I live with my daughter who works at the health food store)

Oh, and beans, I have really missed eating beans these past 3 years!   I've probably had about 3 cans of Amy's Organic Black Bean soup or Lentil Soup in the past 3 weeks.  
And I recently got introduced to Quinoa, which I really enjoy, but again, have only had about 3 servings of that in the last 3 weeks.

I don't even look at pasta or yeast breads.  Don't eat spelt tortillas either  

I lost about 2.5 lbs the first week on BTD. Then back to a stall and feeling sluggish.

I'm not execising cuz i took a fall about a month ago and haven't been back on the treadmill, although I am beginning to feel up to it.

Maybe it's the beans???

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Melissa_J
Saturday, March 19, 2005, 6:18pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Hunter
Sa Bon Nim
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Location: Utah, USA
Age: 39
Could be the beans, how do they agree with your digestion?

In my case it would be the apple juice, though I am a non-secretor.    You may want to switch to pineapple or diluted cherry juice (or compliant tea) and it's best to have it fresh-juiced or at least make sure it's good quality and doesn't have added ingredients.


Type O+ blogger, secretor afterall. Gluten intolerant. With two gluten intolerant sons:  A+ Secretor 10 yo (also fructose intolerant and slightly egg allergic), and  O- 7yo.
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Gee Whiz
Saturday, March 19, 2005, 6:28pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Gatherer Rh-
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I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but you could be a nonnie.  I, too am very healthy, with a hardy constitution,even with my lifelong high sweets consumption.  I was sure I was a secretor.  Alas, I am not.  We really do better with no grains, no sweets, no beans (somehow, I think beans are worse for me than sweets or grains - at least they make me feel more sluggish).  We are the low carb cavepeople who are at our best in a state of mild ketosis.  Unlike MissleCop's experience, most nonnies are energized by frequent red meat meals.  Try eating more like a nonnie and see if the brain fog clears and the weight loss picks up.  It's hard, and I am by no means an absolutist, but lean that direction and you may notice a difference.


Was CaveWoman
My new name reflects my joy and surprise at being a Gatherer
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Draginvry
Saturday, March 19, 2005, 6:36pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Living on Hado
Sam Dan
Posts: 353
Location: Texas
Yeah, it sounds like you may be reacting to something since you are eating so many different things.  I also dreaded giving up Amy's beans, but I think I'm better for it in the long run.

And, did you say Black Bean and Lentil soup?  'Cause I'm pretty sure that Lentils are an Avoid right off the bat, and Amy's soups contain High Oleic Safflower Oil, and Avoid for O's.  I should know, I still have a can sitting in my cupboard waiting for some hapless fool that I can manage to give it to.

Also, I believe that Oatmeal and Apples are an avoid for nonnies.  I'd ditch the apple juice regardless.  There's better fruits for O's, and juice has a very poor nutrient-sugar ratio.

The first thing you should do is ditch the Amy's soup, since not only does it contain beans, but it likely contains Safflower Oil.

Personally I stick to a lot of beef (at least one meal per day), a lot of tropical fruits, and dark leafy green vegetables.  I'll eat chicken and fish too, but they don't "hit the spot" like red meat does.

Try cutting out extreneous foods.  I find that it's easier to read the signals my body sends me when I'm not eating avoids.  On a good day, I can tell exactly what I should be eating and when.  I'm like "I need prunes" or "I need beef" but if I've eaten Avoids I'm more like "I need a miracle"



DISCLAIMER:  The above information is garnered from personal experience.  This advice is not intended to replace that of a trained medical professional.  Although, personally, I wouldn't trust most trained medical professionals to have the knowledge or know-how to trim my toenails.

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VeryGnawty  -  Saturday, March 19, 2005, 6:46pm
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katrine
Saturday, March 19, 2005, 8:29pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Wow!  I can't thank you guys enough for your input!  

lolo.....I think you probably hit the nail on the head.  I will hate to have to admit to this but I probably need to eliminate all of those completely from my diet.   The grains I can do without, the beans too, but the chocolate.......NEVER!   So, I'll just have to plan better.

VeryGnawty

I think you are right on too!  I like oatmeal and haven't eaten it for 3 years and I love Amy's soups.  I also love my own homemade lentil soup.  I know it's an avoid, but I honestly didn't expect such a bad reaction!  So, I'm gonna take your advice and avoid all beans, except the Beneificals.

I've been having a protein smoothie in the morning with organic apple juice or pear juice.  I really don't like pineapple.  So, I'm gonna try Almond Milk instead.

Thank you so much again, Everybody!  I really believe inthis way of eating/living and I really want it to work for me!

k
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debs
Saturday, March 19, 2005, 8:45pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

if at first you don't succed try & try again.
Sam Dan
Posts: 853
you could make your own chocolate with cocoa powder & vegetable glycerine & even throw in some beneficial nuts in.that way you wont be spiking your blood sugar.
i understand if youre not keen on pineapple but if you disguised it somewhat in a smoothie with other things you probably wouldnt notice.However for what its worth get your secretor status checked out,ok?



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VeryGnawty  -  Saturday, March 19, 2005, 8:46pm
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Don
Saturday, March 19, 2005, 9:05pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Rh-, MN
Sam Dan
Posts: 7,189
Gender: Male
Location: North Alabama
Age: 59
Lentils are 5th on the list of worst lectin avoids for type Os.

You might also try eating a low carb breakfast, meat and greens, instead of fruit/protein powder smoothies.  This works good for me.  Save the carbs for later in the day.

What is your general health like?

The fact that you haven't been exercising could be the reason you don't feel as good.  Exercise is an important part of the BTD.


FIFHI; ISTP;
Started BTD 3/2002, with 2 O- secretor teenage sons
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Melissa_J
Saturday, March 19, 2005, 9:07pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Hunter
Sa Bon Nim
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Sounds like a good plan.  It is rather amazing how powerful the lectin can be in a tiny little bean, I wouldn't be too surprised if that was the culprit. Lately beans haven't appeared in my menus more than once a week.

Cherry juice or a bit of unsweetened cranberry juice are also good in smoothies, they give it a nice pink color and a bit of zing.  I've also heard of adding almond butter to make it creamy, but I've never tried that.  It's been far too long since I've made a smoothie, I may have to dust off the blender again soon.  


Type O+ blogger, secretor afterall. Gluten intolerant. With two gluten intolerant sons:  A+ Secretor 10 yo (also fructose intolerant and slightly egg allergic), and  O- 7yo.

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VeryGnawty  -  Saturday, March 19, 2005, 9:12pm
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resting
Saturday, March 19, 2005, 10:11pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

probable non-sec
Sam Dan
Posts: 1,797
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Location: Timmins, Ontario, Canada
Age: 67
Hi folks,

If your up for a 'trip', here's one:

Try the BTD -SEASONALLY

so - fruit in Spring - AVOID - because fruit/their juices are at the 'end' of a plants' cycle.  So fruit is opposite to Spring.  We normally eat non-compliant 'sweet' foods that are out-of-season.  Sweet means heavy duty storage for the upcoming winter ... fat, etc.  Ketosis, normal for the winter, burns this extra fat!  Ketosis for other months is ????????????
    - greens in Winter - AVOID - because greens are summer food, exactly opposite to winter
    - oatmeal (if compliant) as is in fall/winter but in Spring soak 8-10 hours before cooking ... same for all nuts, seeds ... and their milks
SPRING FOOD - think of foods that generate, eggs, mini-carrots, new onions,        
                     lettuce, grass foods like wheat and barley .... fish roe, and colostrum
NAP's LIVE Cell is an ideal supplement for this season.
SPRING - is also the season to 'cleanse ... a very good start is to purchase whole horseradish root, clean and cut up, very finely @2 inches of the root.  Then blend with the juice from 6 freshly-squeezed lemons.
If you have never done this before, even though you start with only 1/2tsp (@2.5 ml) you will believe your tongue is on fire; your eyes will water ... (you best be seated)!  After increasing this amount slowly over 2 weeks, you can eat 2 TBsp (@30ml) X 2 each day.  You will get rid of all kinds of white residues from grains... and after just a very few sessions, you won't want to wait til the next round.


John


The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane. Marcus Aurelius

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Mickey
Saturday, March 19, 2005, 11:54pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Swamied Gatherer (50%), Rh-
Sam Dan
Posts: 1,315
Gender: Female
Location: the Bay Area, CA


Kathy,

It sounds to me like you are going through detox. I don't think it matters if your losing weight or not, you can still go through detox. It really depends on how different you were eating before the BTD to how you are eating now on the BTD. Alot of people go through detox, different extremes are very individual. I have been following the BTD since 99 and i still go through it sometimes when i'm being bad!. A couple of years ago i had gotten off the bandwagon and decided to go full throttle again. Boy was i surprised i had major detox!. I guess i had been more uncompliant then i thought. But it really paid off i felt like a new person after a few weeks of detox and people were commenting on how great i looked. During those few weeks i was soo lethargic, headachy and generally just felt sickly.

I know there are lots of messages about detox on the old message board. Just go under "Solutions" and click on "Search this site".

Good Luck and hope you feel better real soon!!!
Mickey


"Let food be thy medicine"

Dr. D has said many times that it's not about what you don't eat but what you do eat that makes the difference.  "Quoted by Jane"
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sewjean
Wednesday, March 23, 2005, 7:47am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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My experiences with the type O diet is that the more I follow it, the more my body tells me!  Corn and wheat are very AVOID, and also any cheese.  My most recent experience with Colby cheese really whallopped me!( I was hungry, and stressed, and it was handy) I was so short of breath, that walking across the room was an effort.  
Also, if you were a heavy grain (especially wheat and corn) previously, you may have an accumulation of wheat residue in your body, thus making you super sensitive to any wheat. Before I was more strict on the ER4YT,  I had spent 4 months in CA getting NAET allergy treatments, and the chiropractor treated me for wheat allergy, ( which I suspected for years, as my internal ear itched every time I ate bread) and when I went back to be checked, he said I had approx. 6 1/2 pounds of wheat residue in my body, That told me that I definately had to avoid wheat!!!  I use Ezekial sprouted bread,  and don't get the reaction that I used to. Just don't give up on the BTD! You will be rewarded with better health as you go along!
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Draginvry
Wednesday, March 23, 2005, 3:36pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Living on Hado
Sam Dan
Posts: 353
Location: Texas
Quoted from "katrine"
The grains I can do without, the beans too, but the chocolate.......NEVER!   So, I'll just have to plan better


It's all about planning.  I think I'm a nonnie, since I seem to have trouble digesting a lot of foods on the nonnie Avoid list.  Although I can eat organic cane sugar if I eat it at the right time and/or take some Fenugreek with it.  But I'm trying to cut it out entirely because it's too much trouble and I'm concerned about it interfering with other foods.  So now I have to modify my cookie recipe to ditch the sugar.  The sugar can go, but the cookie stays, darn it!

But when I'm not testing my cookie recipe, I eat a lot of bananas/mangoes, meat, and greens.  And prunes are a Godsend.  Don't forget the prunes.



DISCLAIMER:  The above information is garnered from personal experience.  This advice is not intended to replace that of a trained medical professional.  Although, personally, I wouldn't trust most trained medical professionals to have the knowledge or know-how to trim my toenails.
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Brighid45
Saturday, April 9, 2005, 11:12pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

INFJ
Kyosha Nim
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Katrine--try eating just fresh veggies, lean red meat and fish, some fruit, and plenty of good water. After a few weeks add back a little dairy or some beans--one thing at a time--and see what happens. And if you can do it, purchase a secretor test and find out what your status is.

John--seasonal eating is amazing. You'd think you'd miss having fruit, veggies, and so on all year round, but very quickly you come to appreciate the way tastes come and go and change in an endless round. It makes you see late summer and early fall the way our ancestors must have seen it--as a miracle. And you don't take food for granted any more. I'm slowly moving my way of eating back to seasonal. Once I'm able to have my own garden I can switch over totally.

About horseradish: I used to work in a food production plant that made horseradish products like cocktail sauce, hot mustard, and so on. Every once in a while, if you were the person dumping the fresh-ground horseradish into the filler, you'd forget and stick your head directly over it, and get the full blast of the fumes. I found out where the bottom of my lungs were once that way *lol* Anyway, if you're not used to fresh horseradish, be careful with both grinding it and consuming it. It's powerful stuff! Make sure you have adequate ventilation in your kitchen, and if you've never eaten any fresh-ground before, try a small amount first. It packs a mighty punch!

I like my horseradish piled on a nice thick juicy steak. Ooooooh yeah. MMMM!!


Everyone is entitled to his or her informed opinion. --H. Ellison

Revision History (2 edits)
VeryGnawty  -  Saturday, April 9, 2005, 11:20pm
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VeryGnawty  -  Saturday, April 9, 2005, 11:13pm
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Debra+
Sunday, April 10, 2005, 4:47am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Eat BTD...Healthy Body... Happier Soul 'Gatherer'
Kyosha Nim
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Age: 57
Quoted from katrine

I still normally eat between 4-8 cups of salad a day and I don't load on the dressing.


You don't load up on the dressing. Why not eat it with olive oil and lemon juice and you will be getting some of your essential oils too.

Debra


"Everything that irritates us about others can lead us to an understanding of ourselves." C.G. Jung"

O+nonT

CBP (Certified BodyTalk Practitioner)
Mindscape (remote/distant healing)
Traditional Chinese Medicine
Accunect Practitioner...in training to teach Self-Care
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Brighid45
Sunday, April 10, 2005, 4:39pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

INFJ
Kyosha Nim
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I use a dressing made of extra virgin olive oil, a pinch of sea salt (sometimes), a little fresh basil (sometimes), and a splash of lemon juice. I also make a 'vinaigrette' of olive oil, garlic, and pomegranate syrup with a little pineapple juice mixed in, if I want something different.

Olive oil is good for the body and soul. I used to hate it, now I can't imagine going without it.


Everyone is entitled to his or her informed opinion. --H. Ellison
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debs
Sunday, April 10, 2005, 7:48pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

if at first you don't succed try & try again.
Sam Dan
Posts: 853
i must admit when i first read about seasonal eating i was a little dismissive of it. then it dawned on me.although i love tomatoes usually i'd gone off them for a while dont know what it is just havent fancied them for ages.a small punnet lasts ages in the fridge & the others mainly eat them even though they are the sweet cherry kind.funny really.


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Mrs T O+
Friday, April 15, 2005, 3:18am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Concealed Carry Gatherer! SWAMI Explorer Blend
Kyosha Nim
Posts: 3,266
Gender: Female
Location: Chicago, Illinois
Another factor to remember is to consider food combinations.  I think I would feel sluggish and have allergic type reactions if I mixed too many types of foods, even if they were compliant.  Katrine describes lots of mixtures.  The most important thing I do is eat fruit alone first  thing in the day.  I don't go back to fruit unless many hours have gone by without eating which is very rare as I have low blood sugar & a voracious appetite. Also I don't mix types of proteins like meat & beans together.  I would feel sluggish the next day or so.  They say don't mix proteins & starches, but that doesn't bother me too much.  We are all individuals, so we have to experiment.
I think I am a nonnie, too, as I can't do oatmeal, but eat black-eyed peas.
Avocados are a staple for me, too and don't seem to bother me.
There's much more to say, but I hope this helps.
Sincerely yours,
Mrs "T" O+


Interested in nutrition, lactation, religion, politics; love to be around people; talkative, sensitive, goofy; a "fishy Christian" ><>; left-handed; lived on a farm, small town & big city; love BTD/GTD; A staunch La Leche League veteran; b. 10/1947 Check BTD/GTD on facebook!
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sue_ab
Friday, April 15, 2005, 3:27am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Warrior
Kyosha Nim
Posts: 990
Location: NW Tasmania, Australia
Hello Mrs. T and welcome. No don't agree you can't be relatively computer illiterate.....you're here......and you found the member center

If you back to the member center you can choose your avatar so everyone will know which blood type you are and be better able to help you.

Have a great time on the forums,

Sue..


BTD'ing for life since 2000
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