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BTD Forums    Diet and Nutrition    Eat Right 4 Your Type  ›  Nitrates and Nitrites - What's the difference?
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Nitrates and Nitrites - What's the difference?  This thread currently has 528 views. Print Print Thread
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MzMoonpie
Tuesday, July 17, 2007, 8:29pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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And are either of them worth eating lunch meat?  

I wanted a hot dog. Why? I don't know.  But I wanted one.  I went online to see if Hebrew National made hot dogs without nitrates in them. They do, but they're made with nitrITES instead.  

Any info?
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Don
Tuesday, July 17, 2007, 8:54pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Oscar Mayer now has a smoked uncured beef frank product that is labeled "Natural" that I can find in all the local grocery stores. Since they are uncured they have no nitrate or nitrite added.

They are not what I would call health food, but you might want to check them out for an occasional item to satisfy your hot dog craving. I have bought them a few times this summer for a quick meal for my sons.


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ironwood55  -  Wednesday, July 18, 2007, 1:37am
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italybound
Wednesday, July 18, 2007, 1:28am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Kyosha Nim
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I was totally disgusted w/ Hebrew National hot dogs. After them touting them to be so good, I, like a blind fool bought 2 pkgs w/o reading the ingred.  They are currently in the freezer waiting to be returned.  

Re: Oscar Mayer.........for those who eat bacon......they also have a Natural bacon.
Hormel also makes a natural bacon, natural ham, turkey and roast beef 'lunch meats'.  I was tickled pink about the lunch meats!!  

Applegate Farms also makes some pretty decent turkey, chicken and beef hot dogs.

Nitrates: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/nitrates
Nitrites: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/nitrites




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ironwood55  -  Wednesday, July 18, 2007, 1:51am
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Schluggell
Wednesday, July 18, 2007, 7:38am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Kyosha Nim
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Quoted from MzMoonpie
And are either of them worth eating lunch meat?...


To sum: No

And further to consider if Hydrologists & Soil Chemists would communicate with Aquarists we'd soon learn more problems (& how to more properly treat) with the water supply as well....



Herr Schlüggell -- Establish a Garden; Cultivate Community. "To see things in the seed, that is genius. He who obtains has little. He who scatters has much. The way to do is to be." -Lao Tzu
Bruno Manser, Ned Lud, August Sabbe, Richard St. Barbe-Baker, Eddie Koiki Mabo, Masanobu Fukuoka
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italybound
Wednesday, July 18, 2007, 1:16pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Kyosha Nim
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Quoted from MzMoonpie
And are either of them worth eating lunch meat?  


I missed this in my last post and I absolutely agree w/ Schluggel.  A big fat NO!!     they are just poisons IMHO......
I think they are both used as preservatives..........'nuff said  



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Whimsical
Wednesday, July 18, 2007, 2:16pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Kyosha Nim
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From my organic chemistry notes:
"Hydrochloric acid in gastric juice generates nitrous acid from nitrites that are eaten.  The two types of precursors to nitrosamines are dimethylamine which is found in a number of fish and meat products.  The second precursor is sodium nitrite used as a preservativ in meats such as bacon, cold cuts, and hot dogs."

"Nitrous acid, HNO2, is an unstable species that exists only as its salts or in solution in equilibrium with a number of other species.  The first step of the reaction of nitrous acid with an amine is th formation of an N-nitrosamine.  In the case of 2nd degree alkylamines, the resulting N-nitrosaminese are stable and of great biological interest because they are known to be mutagens and carcinogens."

So basically, when you eat nitrites, they can react with amines in your body to form mutagens/carcinogens.  There are companies out there that make nitrite-free meat products, so award them your dollars instead!


MIFHI E-185
Naturopathic Doctor in Toronto, Ontario, Canada
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MzMoonpie
Wednesday, July 18, 2007, 2:20pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Unfortunately, I live in a place where white bread and Pepsi are dietary staples.  Certainly not in my house, but it is difficult to find real food around here.  My store did carry the natural bacon for a while, but I haven't seen it lately. I'll look for those other hot dogs.  

Thank you everyone!
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italybound
Wednesday, July 18, 2007, 3:04pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Kyosha Nim
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Quoted from MzMoonpie
My store did carry the natural bacon for a while, but I haven't seen it lately. I'll look for those other hot dogs.  


Make a request to your grocer's MANAGER to bring these things into the store. That's not to say it will happen, but if you never ask, you never know.
I live in a really small town and you'd be surprised at the things the manager has brought into that store at my request.  If the demand is there, they are foolish not to bring it in IMHO.  As I told 'my' mgr, if it's in HIS store, I'll buy it there and keep our money in our town.  



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Whimsical
Wednesday, July 18, 2007, 3:10pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Kyosha Nim
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There is always the internet, too.  There are so many great products available online and sometimes at prices much better than local stores.  Also, look into natural food co-ops in your area - this can be a very economical way to get amazing, healthy foods.


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comper
Wednesday, July 18, 2007, 11:21pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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i need to get out of college cafeteria food. all their meats are probably full of nitrites and nitrates.
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italybound
Thursday, July 19, 2007, 2:08am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from comper
i need to get out of college cafeteria food. all their meats are probably full of nitrites and nitrates.


I'd bet a paycheck on that. They are prob using the cheapest foods they can buy, guaranteed to be full of junk.  



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Schluggell
Thursday, July 19, 2007, 7:38am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Whimsical
...So basically, when you eat nitrites, they can react with amines in your body to form mutagens/carcinogens.  There are companies out there that make nitrite-free meat products, so award them your dollars instead!


Home-made smoked sausages Real Black Forest Ham, Biltong etc...
In US, in terms of meat preservatives, there are even more chemicals dumped in the ham/bacon - Nitrates/-ites are just the 'tip of the iceberg' shall we say.

The old addage: "If you can't pronounce it - Don't eat it"....


Herr Schlüggell -- Establish a Garden; Cultivate Community. "To see things in the seed, that is genius. He who obtains has little. He who scatters has much. The way to do is to be." -Lao Tzu
Bruno Manser, Ned Lud, August Sabbe, Richard St. Barbe-Baker, Eddie Koiki Mabo, Masanobu Fukuoka
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italybound
Thursday, July 19, 2007, 1:00pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Kyosha Nim
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Quoted from Schluggell
The old addage: "If you can't pronounce it - Don't eat it"....


yeppers........only I can pronounce nitrates and nitrites     sorry, couldnt resist.  



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Peppermint Twist
Thursday, July 19, 2007, 1:42pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from pkarmeier
Make a request to your grocer's MANAGER to bring these things into the store. That's not to say it will happen, but if you never ask, you never know.

I live in a really small town and you'd be surprised at the things the manager has brought into that store at my request.  If the demand is there, they are foolish not to bring it in IMHO.  As I told 'my' mgr, if it's in HIS store, I'll buy it there and keep our money in our town.  

Go, girl!


"If you are on one of Dr. D's diets and it isn't joyful, you aren't doing it right." - moi

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Peppermint Twist
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Kyosha Nim
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P.S.  btw, I watched an entire PBS special the other night about the hot dog.  It really made me want one **!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  Ever since then, I have wanted to go to NYC and try a "Papaya King" hot dog.  I remembered them from Seinfeld, when Kramer laments "I don't want a movie hot dog, I want a Papaya King hot dog!"  Then, when I saw the little piece about how fab they are on the aforementioned PBS special, it was like:  I must try one before I die!

Anyway, as a general rule, nitrites and nitrates should be avoided.  ...But if I ever do get to NYC, I'm heading to Papaya King!  And apparently they only cost $1.25!

I wouldn't mind going to Coney Island, while I'm in the area, too, and trying a dog from Nathan's.

I'm telling you, that PBS special really got one's mouth watering for a good-old, all-American hot dog, avoids* be derned!

* and is there anything else BUT avoids in/on the typical hot dog?  The minced onions--if you choose to get any on there--are about the only O-okay thaaang *lol*!!!)

edited to add:  linkaroo:  http://www.wqed.org/tv/natl/hotdogs/hd_program.shtml

further edited to add:  quote from link above:

"From the Fourth of July hot dog-eating contest at Coney Island to a gourmet reindeer-dog vendor at the start of the Iditarod sled dog race, A HOT DOG PROGRAM visits some of the country's coolest hot dog places. The one-hour special is a fun look at some hot dog history, a guide to some of the finest hot dog houses in the country, and an unabashedly friendly look at these finely ground sausages and their fans."

Tee HEE!  You've gotta love it!


"If you are on one of Dr. D's diets and it isn't joyful, you aren't doing it right." - moi

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Revision History (5 edits; 4 reasons shown)
ironwood55  -  Thursday, July 19, 2007, 1:52pm
hot dog!
ironwood55  -  Thursday, July 19, 2007, 1:50pm
link a dink a dink, a dink a do!
ironwood55  -  Thursday, July 19, 2007, 1:48pm
hot dogs here!  get your hot dogs here!
ironwood55  -  Thursday, July 19, 2007, 1:47pm
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Lola
Thursday, July 19, 2007, 6:10pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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nothing beats the taste of those greasy 'wurst' stands in Vienna and all through Europe, with a slice of rye bread and that great mustard!! ahhh! the good old days!!!


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Ronagon
Saturday, July 21, 2007, 2:06am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Moonpie,

Here's a nitrate:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nitrate

And here's a nitrite:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nitrite

My understanding is that the nitrates, having three attractive oxygens, would be more reactive than nitrites and, therefore, might cause more damage.  But that's just me thinking... I could be wrong.
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Schluggell
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Quoted from lola
nothing beats the taste of those greasy 'wurst' stands in Vienna and all through Europe, with a slice of rye bread and that great mustard!! ahhh! the good old days!!!


Ach Jahhh!! Bratwurst und Brötchen mit Senf, auch ein Maß vom Faß bitte!!


Herr Schlüggell -- Establish a Garden; Cultivate Community. "To see things in the seed, that is genius. He who obtains has little. He who scatters has much. The way to do is to be." -Lao Tzu
Bruno Manser, Ned Lud, August Sabbe, Richard St. Barbe-Baker, Eddie Koiki Mabo, Masanobu Fukuoka
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RedLilac
Sunday, July 22, 2007, 3:35pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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I get nirtate free breef franks from US Wellness Meats.

http://www.grasslandbeef.com


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Lola
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Sa Bon Nim
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also, Mahlzeit Schlug!!
lass es dir gut schmecken!
und prosit!  


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TypeOSecretor
Friday, July 27, 2007, 2:46pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Whimsical
From my organic chemistry notes:
"Hydrochloric acid in gastric juice generates nitrous acid from nitrites that are eaten.  The two types of precursors to nitrosamines are dimethylamine which is found in a number of fish and meat products.  The second precursor is sodium nitrite used as a preservativ in meats such as bacon, cold cuts, and hot dogs."

"Nitrous acid, HNO2, is an unstable species that exists only as its salts or in solution in equilibrium with a number of other species.  The first step of the reaction of nitrous acid with an amine is th formation of an N-nitrosamine.  In the case of 2nd degree alkylamines, the resulting N-nitrosaminese are stable and of great biological interest because they are known to be mutagens and carcinogens."

So basically, when you eat nitrites, they can react with amines in your body to form mutagens/carcinogens.  There are companies out there that make nitrite-free meat products, so award them your dollars instead!



I often see potassium sorbate (or something similar) used as a preservative in dried fruits.  Do you know if it behaves in the same manner as nitrites?
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italybound
Saturday, July 28, 2007, 2:15am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from TypeOSecretor
I often see potassium sorbate (or something similar) used as a preservative in dried fruits.  Do you know if it behaves in the same manner as nitrites?


thanks for asking about this........I very often wonder if this is something we should avoid.



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