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BTD Forums  /  Supp Right For Your Type  /  Prebiotics - beta glucan versus larch
Posted by: misspudding, Thursday, July 17, 2014, 3:26am
Based on stool testing, my son needs prebiotics to encourage the obligate anaerobic bacteria in his system. We're currently doing a SWAMI-ed version of SCD. One of the things that SCD doesn't allow is FOS, inulin, chicory, etc. However, SCD specifically says that beta glucan is okay. I cannot find anything anywhere that says whether or not arabinogalactan (Larch) is safe on SCD.

I figure we can start with beta glucan and work our way up to larch, if all goes well. Does anyone who has done SCD and BTD have any helpful hints?
Posted by: misspudding, Thursday, March 19, 2015, 12:00am; Reply: 1
Okay okay, I'm back to this whole argument again.

So is it that carbohydrate malabsorption causes motility problems? Or is it that motility problems cause bacterial overgrowth which causes carbohydrate malabsorption?

For the last three years we've worked off the assumption that carbohydrate malabsorption is somehow intrinsic to a person, not that it can be induced by damage to the intestines. Well, now we're of the assumption that the motility problems induce carbohydrate malabsorption which causes damaged to the intestines and causes everything else.

Now we're back to fiber is good and will prevent motility problems and everything else. (Just a paradigm shift is all...we're still combating everything with anti inflammatory foods and supplements and lifestyle changes.)

So because fiber is good, I thought now was a good time for larch. Dr. D. is always giving us all of these great studies about how larch modulates the immune system, etc. I ordered it strictly as a fiber supplement, with the knowledge that it might also be doing my son's immune system some good. But then I came across this:

http://glycob.oxfordjournals.org/content/18/9/652.full

Has there been any additional research on larch since 2007? These guys are talking about larch in the test tube versus larch in the person. Obviously, it's great as a fiber source, but are the benefits overstated? I have no qualms using it for fiber alone...just curious what Dr. D. might think.
Posted by: Spring, Thursday, March 19, 2015, 1:58am; Reply: 2
They seemed to quote the attorney general overmuch. How about some real science instead?! Right now the attorney general of New York along with any others he can corral into the lawsuit from other states are going after supplement companies that have been around for numerous years trying to prove that they are selling products that don't even contain what they say they do. I wouldn't be at all surprised if this attorney general is not at the least being encouraged to do this by Big Pharma. The problem is that they are demanding outrageous amounts of paperwork from the companies which is only going to cause the price of supplements to skyrocket.  It infuriates me.  
Posted by: Amazone I., Thursday, March 19, 2015, 7:44am; Reply: 3
Beta glucans often are made from oats ...so far  :-/...I'd give a try to the medicinal mushrooms like Hericium and Pleurotus ostreatus...give a try first to the powders...if too less efficient come along with the extracts...(pray)(smarty)
Posted by: misspudding, Thursday, March 19, 2015, 5:30pm; Reply: 4
Quoted from Amazone I.
Beta glucans often are made from oats ...so far  :-/...I'd give a try to the medicinal mushrooms like Hericium and Pleurotus ostreatus...give a try first to the powders...if too less efficient come along with the extracts...(pray)(smarty)


We used beta glucan that wasn't oat derived before. We just couldn't get enough of it in supplement form (none of us - hubby, me, my son - enjoy mushrooms in cooking). Since larch seems to be easy to take and dissolves so well in water, I'm willing to give it a try.
Posted by: misspudding, Thursday, March 19, 2015, 5:34pm; Reply: 5
Quoted from Spring
They seemed to quote the attorney general overmuch. How about some real science instead?! Right now the attorney general of New York along with any others he can corral into the lawsuit from other states are going after supplement companies that have been around for numerous years trying to prove that they are selling products that don't even contain what they say they do. I wouldn't be at all surprised if this attorney general is not at the least being encouraged to do this by Big Pharma. The problem is that they are demanding outrageous amounts of paperwork from the companies which is only going to cause the price of supplements to skyrocket.  It infuriates me.  


As a scientist, I appreciate the attempt to make sure that folks who sell supplements aren't ripping off people. I mean, let's say you sell someone the equivalent of rice powder in a capsule and charge $50 for it? No one will be the wiser (placebo effect is a very big, real thing) unless they've had the real deal before.

I believe in the wisdom of Dr. D. I'm just curious and, unfortunately, a skeptic. Since I've been instructed to buy fiber for my son to help his motility issues, it doesn't really matter to me what kind of fiber it is, as long as he tolerates it well. The immune regulating properties of larch, if they're true, are a huge bonus. I guess the only way to find out is to give him larch and see what happens. :)
Posted by: Victoria, Thursday, March 19, 2015, 5:39pm; Reply: 6
Amazone I, Lion's Mane mushroom (hericium) appears to have some very great properties.  Will you share a little about some of the therapeutic applications for it?  What do you recommend it for?
Posted by: Amazone I., Thursday, March 19, 2015, 6:55pm; Reply: 7
Mp so from what was this  beta glucan first made of??) Barley ??).... :-/ I think and saw always also in those products gluten and gliadin is always contained also as information and still can be real bad triggers... :o :P ::)
Posted by: misspudding, Thursday, March 19, 2015, 8:02pm; Reply: 8
Quoted from Amazone I.
Mp so from what was this  beta glucan first made of??) Barley ??).... :-/ I think and saw always also in those products gluten and gliadin is always contained also as information and still can be real bad triggers... :o :P ::)


It was a product that was certified gluten free, etc. Of course, in hindsight, I realize being certified GF just means below a certain threshold of concentration, so not 100% sure. But it was the only brand considered SCD legal (and Elaine Gottschall was very strict about no grains or grain-derived stuff on SCD, and it was her specific recommendation (prior to her passing away a few years ago so I'm fairly confident it was from mushrooms).
Posted by: Amazone I., Thursday, March 19, 2015, 8:24pm; Reply: 9
Victoria  we've had some discussion here some weeks ago...in literature it is mentioned:

mb crohn's
colitis ulcerosa
cancer antiagent
modalities for chemo preventions
immunstimmulant...and against infections
skin probs expressis verbis against neurodermitis...entre autre.. I've observed... :)
against acid reflux...and its ...negative issues ..
probiotic issues of the gut
weight management
depressions and anxiety  yallas'..all about nerve health issues...even Alzheimers and dementia... I saw it's true ;) :D...even all about interaction in neuronal sicknesses... :D
menopausal issues
even hemoroides ??).. can't tell ya here... not that much experiences...

wish ya all the best and what are your experiences here about this very thema.. I only can say..great results... ;D
(smarty)(ok)(dance) even with animals... :D


oum sigh..dearest Mp can't be from mushies..then... :-/ and expressis verbis as scientist we need to take care in not accomodating our views to our wishes...meant here is: we do often show up with tendencies to accomodate our seen realities to our wishes... :-/ therefore it is known that white coated have tendencies
not to take notice of the reactions of their patiens but "believe" they are able to tolerate all described medications...and what else ??)... :o(hand)(shrug)(disappointed)
Posted by: Spring, Thursday, March 19, 2015, 8:33pm; Reply: 10
Quoted from misspudding
As a scientist, I appreciate the attempt to make sure that folks who sell supplements aren't ripping off people. I mean, let's say you sell someone the equivalent of rice powder in a capsule and charge $50 for it? No one will be the wiser (placebo effect is a very big, real thing) unless they've had the real deal before.

I believe in the wisdom of Dr. D. I'm just curious and, unfortunately, a skeptic. Since I've been instructed to buy fiber for my son to help his motility issues, it doesn't really matter to me what kind of fiber it is, as long as he tolerates it well. The immune regulating properties of larch, if they're true, are a huge bonus. I guess the only way to find out is to give him larch and see what happens. :)

The companies I mentioned have already been checked and rechecked before. Puritan has always been at the top, so what I don't order from Dr. D. and a very few other companies, I order from them. I would NEVER order or buy from the company that the article was all about simply because of their structure. There is much more out there than the people writing the article either chose not to mention or did not know. Have you read what Dr. D. has written about Larch (ARA)? He was the reason it got so popular to start with! I am very happy that he brought it to the attention of the world! (smile)
Posted by: misspudding, Thursday, March 19, 2015, 8:38pm; Reply: 11
Quoted from Spring

The companies I mentioned have already been checked and rechecked before. Puritan has always been at the top, so what I don't order from Dr. D. and a very few other companies, I order from them. I would NEVER order or buy from the company that the article was all about simply because of their structure. There is much more out there than the people writing the article either chose not to mention or did not know. Have you read what Dr. D. has written about Larch (ARA)? He was the reason it got so popular to start with! I am very happy that he brought it to the attention of the world! (smile)


Yes, I have read a lot of about it. I'm just trying to determine if those effects were in a lab, or actually measured in a well-controlled study.

I'm and my son are still going to take it, because I believe that it's an overwhelmingly good thing, but just curious. (I guess I'm just looking for actual, specific studies since when that article was published. It raises some very good points.)
Posted by: Spring, Thursday, March 19, 2015, 10:28pm; Reply: 12
I wouldn't touch the mix that the article referred to with a ten foot pole. I wouldn't need a whole review and an attorney general to tell me a thing about it! I have been taking Larch for several years and love it. For a person who had the stomach ache for nearly sixty years before getting help for it, I pretty well know what works for me since I started down the BTD path!  A whole new life! (smile) I even love Bach Larch!
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