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BTD Forums  /  Live Right 4 Your Type  /  What's with all the grain-free paleo way?
Posted by: narnia, Tuesday, June 3, 2014, 10:23pm
I am very confused.  Grains are listed as bennies for my AB husband and probably some other BTs.  But, there is so much talk about going grain-free and grains being toxic on the internet.

What is Dr. D's science here regarding this subject?
Posted by: misspudding, Tuesday, June 3, 2014, 10:25pm; Reply: 1
Also wondering. I know they can be an issue for O nonnies, but not sure about others.
Posted by: jayneeo, Tuesday, June 3, 2014, 11:41pm; Reply: 2
Dr. D indicates what grains are ok for what types on the diets. Swami is even more precise. Nontheless, some people don't do well with any grains, at least for a while. I have gone off them for extended lengths of time, but now eat rice and gf oats.
Posted by: misspudding, Tuesday, June 3, 2014, 11:44pm; Reply: 3
I can't afford to do my own SWAMI at the moment, but I will be doing it with my son as soon as it shows up. We are so restricted with his diet I would love for him to be able to have some rice.

He was just diagnosed with IBD after 2+ years of dealing with chronic constipation and fructose malabsorption. A round of rifaximin and hospital clean out cleared the constipation and now he has diarrhea. Recent breath testing said no longer fructose malabsorption, so probably was really bad SIBO.

We're going to be doing a SWAMI-SCD kind of thing for a few months to get his gut bacteria solidly healthy. Then we'll see what he can tolerate.
Posted by: narnia, Wednesday, June 4, 2014, 12:26am; Reply: 4
Quoted from misspudding
Also wondering. I know they can be an issue for O nonnies, but not sure about others.


Yes...I am better off not eating rice daily, but oh, how I love rice!!  It is really tough...being Asian and not being able to eat it more often!  

But...is it good for my DH (AB)?  why do I read so many testimonies online about being cured of this and that after removing all grains from their diet?  They attribute grains to peridontal disease, cavities, all kind of diseases....saying that we were never meant to eat grains.  Could these people all have been Os?

I don't understand.  If humans should not eat them...for what species is rice intended?

Then I read stuff about rice being the most healing food for the gut...sooooo confusing!!!

Actually....in search of a gluten free cookie recipe, I came across that flaxseed meal recipe (yippee, I thought...grain-free, too!!), which absolutely did me in from too much fiber!!!  
Posted by: misspudding, Wednesday, June 4, 2014, 12:31am; Reply: 5
Does rice give you tummy issues, narnia, or make you gain weight? I'm curious. Have you been SWAMIed?
Posted by: Mrs T O+, Wednesday, June 4, 2014, 12:36am; Reply: 6
We are not cookie-cutter people. Some may thrive on the paleo diet, but others may need some grains.
I do better on few grains, but some may need more.
if in doubt about what type of grains to eat, as one of you wasn't sure, how about alternating days & not eating too much of any one grain at one time?
Posted by: narnia, Wednesday, June 4, 2014, 12:40am; Reply: 7
Yes to SWAMI.  No to stomach issues from rice.  I just get a little achy and my energy level goes down.  Thankfully, there are no food that give me tummy issues.  My negative side-effects range from mild tiredness and achyness to severe aches and drain in energy and with wheat, hacking and coughing.  Sometines a lot of throat clearing.

the only time that I had tummy issues was when I ate some quinoa.  I had been eating it for several years as a rice sub...did fine with it, but one day....oh the pain!!!  Never felt that way before and it went on for days!!!  This happened after the flaxmeal incident.
Posted by: misspudding, Wednesday, June 4, 2014, 12:45am; Reply: 8
Mrs T, I'm just overwhelmed by thinking about giving up rice for my son. He seems to tolerate it, but I'm not totally sure because he still has gas/bloating (but is still on liquid steroids which have sugar in them).

Basically, I'm nervous because we told doc we weren't going to do the medication anymore because it seemed to aggravate his condition, but he's only in support of the SCD diet, which is no grains. But, for example, carrots are on SCD but not Hunter diet, and my son seems to get bloated on carrots. I'm inclined to agree with Dr. D. My other experience with the whole paleo thing was that when I went paleo, I felt like death. I'm an explorer, though. I absolutely need the rice and beans or I don't get enough folate.

Will see what SWAMI says.
Posted by: misspudding, Wednesday, June 4, 2014, 12:46am; Reply: 9
Interesting, narnia!

I can't stand quinoa. It is so bitter! Even after soaking and doctoring it up with herbs and garlic. Yuck!
Posted by: deblynn3, Wednesday, June 4, 2014, 1:14am; Reply: 10
I use a lot of paleo recipes because as an O they are made without grains, so many O miss their bread etc. But I'm allowed rice and a few other grains and I do have them in small amounts. Other than the coconut flour, oil. The Paleo diet is useable in the O diet, as I guess many A's can use many vegetarian dishes.  The grains we have today are not like the one of yesterday, in the us wheat is higher in gluten, much of our corn and soy is GMO.
Posted by: misspudding, Wednesday, June 4, 2014, 3:08am; Reply: 11
I absolutely love paleo recipes for exactly the same reason, deblynn3. I hate that they're so crazy about coconut flour, though. Yeesh.
Posted by: SquarePeg, Wednesday, June 4, 2014, 8:22pm; Reply: 12
When I eat out, I ask the server about "paleo-style" dishes.  They usually know what that means, and it's mostly good to eat as long as I stay away from ham.  But sometimes they do serve corn anyway.  ::)

This helps me avoid what most restaurants do, which is fill plates with multiple servings of grains or potato so that they can cut back on the perishable food.
Posted by: aussielady582, Thursday, June 5, 2014, 4:55am; Reply: 13
some just try going grain free and feel the difference.
there is also some good points in books discussing this topic, and nutrition.
I am grain free now, and wish I had been a very long time ago.
so much more nutrition in fruits, easy to digest, fresh, full of colour and antioxidant, best fibre for system, and keeps me balanced, and full of energy.
tomato, cucumber, olives, avocado also great.
Rice caused more and more problems.
Can depend on how one's system digests grains, or in my case, fails to digest them, and how this interferes with absorption of nutrients from other foods.
Grains are not always fresh. Humans years ago didn't need or eat them.
Posted by: ruthiegirl, Friday, June 6, 2014, 3:53pm; Reply: 14
I'm an O nonnie. I did "OK" on the paleo diet, but my weight plateaued for over a year after I'd lost a bit of weight. Cutting carbs further did not increase weight loss. Carefully re-introducing carbs did not make me gain weight, and did make me  feel better. When I stopped Paleo and started BTD, I felt much more satisfied with the added rice, quinoa, and select beans in my diet. I did gain a few pounds at first, as I overdid the portions, but that weight came off easily enough.

I still have yet to lose all the weight I gained during my 2nd pregnancy. I suspect I have a lot of healing to do before my body will be ready to let go of that fat.

The fact is that grain-free works for some people but not for others. It does work for short-term weight loss in most; but some people won't fare well on the long term. A great many people do great on fruit and poorly on grains; Paleo works well for them as they can get steady source of carbs on the paleo diet. I personally do better getting my carbs from grains or beans, and the sugars from fruits mess up my blood sugar horribly.
Posted by: misspudding, Friday, June 6, 2014, 4:19pm; Reply: 15
Yeah, most I could do paleo was three months, because I had so much pain at that point! And it took several months to fix it. :( So many migraines! I did lose about 20 pounds in a month on paleo, though. I did try it again because it was so successful in making me drop weight, but again, so many migraines, it was awful.

I don't eat much fruit, either, ruthiegirl.
Posted by: susanC, Friday, June 6, 2014, 6:01pm; Reply: 16
Quoted from narnia
I am very confused.  Grains are listed as bennies for my AB husband and probably some other BTs.  But, there is so much talk about going grain-free and grains being toxic on the internet.

What is Dr. D's science here regarding this subject?


Narnia--Let me chime in here on the beneficial grain recommendations for your AB husband.  Being an AB I am going to guess that your hubbie can have spelt, flax, millet, oats and probably quinoa (not really a grain).  Obviously we are all individuals so his list may, or may not, include all of these grains.  When I SWAMIed myself my list of grains increased.  So GT plays a role as well. I do fine on the above grains--in moderation of course.  They are not meant to form the basis of my daily food intake.  I went mostly grain-free for a year or so.  And while I did lose weight, I did not feel well--I was ungrounded and had blood sugar problems I suspect that interfered drastically with my sleep.  

So, bear in mind, the whole premise of DrD's research findings are that we are individuals.  You are an O and your husband is an AB.  Two very different metabolisms--with the exception of how catechols are cleared from the body.  You husband knows how he feels with or without grains.  A grain-free diet may not work for him.  What we do know is that gluten is showing up everywhere these days in foods, and no one really benefits from gluten per se--even your AB husband.  Hope this helps with your initial question.
Posted by: aussielady582, Tuesday, June 10, 2014, 4:16am; Reply: 17
Interesting how different people react to grains and fruits.
I could not do paleo due to the high amount of uric or other acid proteins, ending up in my muscles, giving pain.  Plus the fish/meat has no fibre, and so caused more problems, and I had very little energy, as my body needs glucose from fruit, to fuel muscles and my brain to function. Many fish, meats have lots of fat, not always seen.
Can't and don't wish to do grains or legumes again, as these have no enzymes and pancreas doesn't need extra work, when fruit and salad has living enzymes, plus the high nutrition which is released quickly with very little digestive effort.
Fruits are fine for me now, as my pancreas is no longer stressed by the high fat in animal protein, or seeds/nuts, or cooked starches found in grains/beans/legumes.
To get enough calories, I found much more fruit needed, not just two or a few small amounts which some nutritionists recommend. For some with a lazy bowel/colon, the fibre is working very well(apple pectin very important), fills me up due to the water/fibre, and for lunch I just added celery to my fruit smoothie which slows down the sugar high, which I don't find I get now, as I keep the fibre in the fruit, and add mostly lettuce or celery (sometimes broccoli) at lunch with sweet fruit - some times just a mono meal of bananas work well.  The acid or sub-acid fruits at night help digest the vegetables (mostly spinach, with other veg) in salad very well, plus give needed vitamin C.
Posted by: Lloyd, Tuesday, June 10, 2014, 11:23am; Reply: 18
Quoted from narnia


What is Dr. D's science here regarding this subject?


Best is to read the books and the onsite tutorials.

Some posts he has made:

http://www.dadamo.com/cgi-bin/Blah/Blah.pl?m-1228587567/s-43/highlight-grain/#num43

http://www.dadamo.com/cgi-bin/Blah/Blah.pl?m-1240775771/s-10/highlight-grain/#num10

http://www.dadamo.com/cgi-bin/Blah/Blah.pl?m-1271895350/s-16/highlight-grain/#num16

Posted by: Dianne, Tuesday, June 10, 2014, 3:47pm; Reply: 19
Quoted from aussielady582
well(apple pectin very important), fills me up due to the water/fibre, and for lunch I just added celery to my fruit smoothie which slows down the sugar high, which I don't find I get now, as I keep the fibre in the fruit, and add mostly lettuce or celery (sometimes broccoli) at lunch with sweet fruit - some times just a mono meal of bananas work well.  The acid or sub-acid fruits at night help digest the vegetables (mostly spinach, with other veg) in salad very well, plus give needed vitamin C.


Great idea on the celery, I shall add that to my smoothie as I don't like it too sweet as well.  :)

Posted by: aussielady582, Thursday, June 12, 2014, 4:42am; Reply: 20
Thankyou, Lloyd, I hope to read the links you mentioned. thanks, Dianne - yes celery good, lunch today - two apples, one peach, watermelon, broccoli, celery (some blended); very delicious, easy to digest, alkalising, and great for cleansing system too!
lunch yesterday was 7 bananas, two apples - I felt so good, and no need for snacking these days. I didn't know bananas also contain pectin and guar gum, great for lower digestive organs/system.  Someone told me yesterday banana bread good too, I said, not for me though  - bananas much better..... the bread would make me very sick; ie grains/salt/fat/sugar, ughh!
Posted by: misspudding, Thursday, June 12, 2014, 5:42am; Reply: 21
Guar gum comes from the guar bean. It's a fermentable polysaccharide and gives a lot of folks intestinal distress.  Best to avoid it!
Posted by: Seraffa, Thursday, June 12, 2014, 6:02am; Reply: 22
I'm not an O, but I'm choosing to eat Neolithic, with sweet potatoes, taro and beans, instead of grains.

I DID heal enough to tolerate grains after the first time I eliminated them (what...maybe for 6 months.) I was proud of myself. But most grains contained gluten or mimicked grass seeds (which used to cause me allergies, until my 2nd year). Now the gluten grains just cause me emotional anxiety. So along with rice, they are off my charts for the next few months.

I would look forward to finding a source of pea flour, though!
Posted by: ruthiegirl, Thursday, June 12, 2014, 12:39pm; Reply: 23
Do you have a coffee grinder or a mortar and pestle? Buy dried split peas and grind them into flour yourself!
Posted by: misspudding, Thursday, June 12, 2014, 10:15pm; Reply: 24
Funny enough, I just saw a post on "The Paleo Mom" facebook page about how her daughter only likes chicken and fish and until very recently would not touch steak. I posted a comment that "Maybe your daughter's blood type is A and have you checked into the science of the Blood Type Diet?".

Can't wait to see what the replies are...

I got so sick on paleo. I'll never do it again. Both times I tried it, I got migraines after a few weeks, that gradually got worse and worse, even though I was eating way more greens and veggies than I had been. I do great on beans and rice! The first time, I also got really bad fibro that took about six months to clear up. The explorer diet is for me!!!
Posted by: narnia, Monday, June 23, 2014, 8:39pm; Reply: 25
Quoted from misspudding
Yeah, most I could do paleo was three months, because I had so much pain at that point! And it took several months to fix it. :( So many migraines! I did lose about 20 pounds in a month on paleo, though. I did try it again because it was so successful in making me drop weight, but again, so many migraines, it was awful.

I don't eat much fruit, either, ruthiegirl.


I wonder why the migraines from paleo??   ??)

Posted by: narnia, Monday, June 23, 2014, 8:53pm; Reply: 26
Thanks everyone, for your input!!  I have been away for a while, so a very belated thanks!   :)

I have been cooking grains for my AB DH.  However, that is my downfall!  If I see it and I am hungry, I will eat it!!!  Hard to resist when it is there and I love the rice!  I do feel feel better when I am off grains, though, but he needs it to gain back the weight that he lost when he cut out wheat!

I am also trying to gain back some of the weight that I lost on the BTD...I am 101 lbs.  Grains put it on a bit, but then it all goes to my tummy!

I have told others that I can stuff myself like a pig, but as long as I eat compliant foods, I just cannot gain more than a pound!!!  Even the rice!!  I need to rebuild some muscle!
Posted by: ruthiegirl, Monday, June 23, 2014, 9:19pm; Reply: 27
I think you need to exercise to rebuild muscle- specifically weight-bearing exercises such as lifting weights. And eat plenty of protein too.
Posted by: narnia, Tuesday, June 24, 2014, 1:29pm; Reply: 28
Yes, of course.  I have been exercising, but then that made me lose weight, because I am burning off calories.
Posted by: jayneeo, Tuesday, June 24, 2014, 5:46pm; Reply: 29
Quoted from narnia


I wonder why the migraines from paleo??   ??)


possible reason: some mthfr mutations make it hard to digest sulfur, and she had started eating many more greens and veggies (greens, high in sulfur) I have this issue….stick to zucchini, carrots, mushrooms, and a few mild veggies. ( a little onion, which is also sulfury, but you need flavor)
Posted by: san j, Tuesday, June 24, 2014, 6:00pm; Reply: 30
Quoted from narnia
I am very confused.  Grains are listed as bennies for my AB husband and probably some other BTs.  But, there is so much talk about going grain-free and grains being toxic on the internet.

I think it's to be expected, after an era of pasta- and whole-grain-worship.
Call it The Revenge of the Os!  :D

Posted by: Averno, Tuesday, June 24, 2014, 7:02pm; Reply: 31
Quoted from narnia
I am very confused.  Grains are listed as bennies for my AB husband and probably some other BTs.  But, there is so much talk about going grain-free and grains being toxic on the internet.


Would that be from the onesizefitsall community?
Posted by: narnia, Wednesday, June 25, 2014, 5:55pm; Reply: 32
;)
Posted by: battle dwarf, Thursday, June 26, 2014, 1:28pm; Reply: 33
seffera, do you have an Indian grocery near you? ask for graham flour, despite the name it is made from chick peas and they carry other types of bean/ pea flours as well though you may have to ask what they are called individually.
Posted by: deblynn3, Thursday, June 26, 2014, 1:56pm; Reply: 34
http://www.nuts.com/cookingbaking/flours/green-pea-gluten-free.html

here is an online company. I get lots of stuff from them. (and I mean a lot) the prices are fair, and the shipping is usually fast.
Posted by: susanC, Thursday, June 26, 2014, 3:14pm; Reply: 35
Seraffa--you may find pea flour at Asian markets.
Posted by: Patty H, Wednesday, July 2, 2014, 2:44pm; Reply: 36
Quoted from aussielady582
Thankyou, Lloyd, I hope to read the links you mentioned. thanks, Dianne - yes celery good, lunch today - two apples, one peach, watermelon, broccoli, celery (some blended); very delicious, easy to digest, alkalising, and great for cleansing system too!
lunch yesterday was 7 bananas, two apples - I felt so good, and no need for snacking these days. I didn't know bananas also contain pectin and guar gum, great for lower digestive organs/system.  Someone told me yesterday banana bread good too, I said, not for me though  - bananas much better..... the bread would make me very sick; ie grains/salt/fat/sugar, ughh!


Seven bananas seems like an awful lot of bananas.  They are very high in sugar, especially seven of them.  Is there a reason you are eating seven bananas and two apples for lunch?  Are you on some kind of a fast?
Posted by: misspudding, Friday, July 4, 2014, 1:42am; Reply: 37
jayneeo, I hadn't thought about the sulfur mutation. I eat tons of eggs (always have) and the greens actually don't bother me. It's the salicylates in berries and almonds (I was doing smoothies with homemade almond milk) and supposedly histamine issues, too (ground meats and, again, berries). Both are difficult for MTHFR-ers because we break those things down so much slower than "normal" people.

For whatever, reason, when I don't eat brown rice and/or beans for several days, I get monster migraines. Regardless of whether I eat greens or berries. I figure brown rice is on my son's SWAMI (we're very similar and both O negative) as a superfood, so there's gotta be a reason. It makes my brain and nervous system happy, so I'm not giving it up!
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