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BTD Forums  /  Journal Club and Literature Review  /  Should type 2 diabetics eat less frequently?
Posted by: Lloyd, Friday, May 16, 2014, 6:40pm
http://www.diabetologia-journal.org/files/Kahleova.pdf

Quoted Text
Conclusions/interpretation Eating only breakfast and lunch
reduced body weight, HFC, fasting plasma glucose, C-peptide
and glucagon, and increased OGIS, more than the same caloric
restriction split into six meals. These results suggest that, for
type 2 diabetic patients on a hypoenergetic diet, eating larger
breakfasts and lunches may be more beneficial than six smaller
meals during the day.


Eating the same amount in fewer meals.

NY Times article:

http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2014/05/15/a-meal-schedule-for-diabetes/
Posted by: Seraffa, Friday, May 16, 2014, 7:16pm; Reply: 1
Does anyone ever REALLY trust the NYTimes? I dont know of any type 2 diabetics that would agree with that article -- in particular!
Posted by: Chloe, Friday, May 16, 2014, 7:20pm; Reply: 2
Quoted from Seraffa
Does anyone ever REALLY trust the NYTimes? I dont know of any type 2 diabetics that would agree with that article -- in particular!


I agree with you....I'm not likely going to trust newspaper information but their material came from
a diabetic journal.

http://www.diabetologia-journal.org/files/Kahleova.pdf

Posted by: Captain_Janeway, Friday, May 16, 2014, 11:11pm; Reply: 3
The fact that they got their info from a diabetic journal is just another reason not to trust it.  Dried beans is the worst food for high blood sugar. Way too many carbs and too little fat and protein.


Of course they are referring to a low-cal diet. Weight loss in a overweight/obese diabetic is going to improve the HbA1c level as well as fatty liver.
Posted by: Chloe, Saturday, May 17, 2014, 12:02am; Reply: 4
Quoted from Captain_Janeway
The fact that they got their info from a diabetic journal is just another reason not to trust it.  Dried beans is the worst food for high blood sugar. Way too many carbs and too little fat and protein..


Never thought about the fact that the published research could be questionable....My blood type A
friend says she can't eat beans because they raise her sugar...but when I shared this link with her, she said her blood sugar stays perfectly normal when she eats two low carb meals per day.  She's borderline diabetic.  Her mother died of diabetes complications....so she's been watching her diet for the past 15 years carefully. She eats like an A, but not grains.

Shouldn't blood type A people be able to stabilize their blood sugar with beans?  I thought the high fiber slows down the rate of insulin being produced.....

Posted by: Captain_Janeway, Saturday, May 17, 2014, 12:38am; Reply: 5
Quoted from Chloe


Shouldn't blood type A people be able to stabilize their blood sugar with beans?  I thought the high fiber slows down the rate of insulin being produced.....




You would think, but the facts do not support it. I know many diabetics and prediabetics all of them represented among the ABO types and I heard most all them say they cannot eat dried beans as a stand alone meal unless it is balanced with protein and fat. Beans are healthful and nutritious and are probably ok for someone who does not have metabolic syndrome or diabetes as a stand alone meal.

Beans are ok for diabetics if eaten as a side dish with other foods. I suppose the lectins in beans might also be part of the problem as well. And beans are rich in lectins.
Posted by: Lloyd, Saturday, May 17, 2014, 12:41am; Reply: 6
Quoted from Captain_Janeway

Of course they are referring to a low-cal diet. Weight loss in a overweight/obese diabetic is going to improve the HbA1c level as well as fatty liver.


What is interesting is that the same foods are eaten in either two meals or six. So the weight loss factor from caloric intake should be controlled.

Also, if I recall correctly, this was set up as a crossover trial with participants using both diets for a specified time period - one group using one diet first and the other, vice versa for the second group. This removes a lot of possible confounding of data.

I don't otherwise know beans about the actual diet used.
Posted by: ginnyTN, Saturday, May 17, 2014, 1:05am; Reply: 7
AND - not a word said about differences in results of experimental subjects By BLOOD TYPE!!!!

Is this yet one more case of "one size fits all" when we know that is never true?
Posted by: Goldie, Saturday, May 17, 2014, 2:26am; Reply: 8
Well I am basically at wits end not knowing what to eat.. I have the Swamis best info, and I suppose one could eat carbs of any kind, even beans in small amounts.  I for me have beans in my SWAMI as a diabetic.  

I have foods listed from all food groups, and even instructions on how much to eat.  I am way toooo afraid to eat any of the items having any carbs.  IN place of carbs I am currently allowed 1 apple a day and I have forfeited all foods to that 'sugar' food.  In my current SWAMI I am allowed that apple.

As for eating small meals, well if I eat small meals I am hungry.. sooner.. IF I eat a sufficient amount of food when I am hungry to eat a full meal then I am not hungry for a longer time..

What to do.. MY blood sugar is highest in the morning,  by evening on low carb, eggs, meat and veg, it drops by 50 points.. one apple brings it up by 20 points.. What to do?  I have no clue...

I have no feeling for when to eat or how much.  Eating carbs would 'mentally' put me on a slippery slop..  I am currently the 5th day OFF all cabs (minus the apple and broccoli)  I am trying to get over the sugar habit to gain energy.. will it work, I have no idea, I also have no idea how to keep my Blood sugar within any Range.   I am currently blowing through finger sticks after ever meal just to see what numbers will be there.. The numbers have no meaning to me, I do not KNOW how to eat so they stay in one spot..    

Eat more, Eat less, one thing I do know, eating low carb makes me less hungry, nudge, and maybe even less tired on some days.. but as for answers.. I have none.. Time will reveal the numbers.  

If I looked at my numbers then I would (maybe ) need to eat in the middle of the night?.. I do not understand why the numbers are worse in the morning... Its all a darn puzzle for me..

in place of the apple I could eat beans, toast, or other foods suggested by the American diabetes diet suggestions.. and then I (think) I would be as sick as others, .... but am I right doing low carb,... its all I know that works for me..               No answer from me here.. for you nor for me.. :(
Posted by: Possum, Saturday, May 17, 2014, 4:12am; Reply: 9
Goldie I have very easily affected blood sugar too (diabetic Mother) I find it way easier if I don't eat carbs (aas you are finding)
Apples in particular are very high in fructose - you may be better off with a fruit with a better balance of fructose and glucose?!
Yeah, you'd think the numbers should be lower not higher in the morning, (you aren't sleep walking/eating in the night are you?) When do you eat your apple?
Posted by: Goldie, Saturday, May 17, 2014, 11:59am; Reply: 10
I eat my last usually before 7pm.. === I 'think' my issues is not drinking WAY more even at night to wash out.. will have to test that...  I AM certain that I am doing all my issues to my self, simply for the lack of better information.   .. and because I find food changes difficult to content with.. I am habit driven and inflexible by fearfulness.  If ever I would drop weight and belly fat by doing something different, then I might be more open to changes and food inclusions, but for now at least I am just WILLINGLY adding exercise... a big step in the right direction.. see my thread about the clinic visit.

Apples: wWell I have been eating the appple any time of the day.. I know about the sugar, but currently I am enjoying the juicyness.  I may in future change that, but I am (in my own mentally) convinced that mom kept cancer away by eating apples.. (crazy thinking.. maybe.. but for right now having had cancer last year, I am allowing the apple)....................  and my Deep Blue SWAMI -specifically for cancer - SWAMI is allowing the apple as Deep Blue Beneficial//// interesting ?  Yet look below.. the best reason why to buy organic is much needed.

These fruits and vegetables had the highest pesticide load, buy or grow organically:

Apples
Celery
Cherry tomatoes

Cucumbers
Grapes
Hot peppers

Nectarines (imported)
Peaches
Potatoes

Spinach
Strawberries
Sweet bell peppers

Kale
Collard greens
Summer squash




These foods have the lowest residual pesticide load, in conventionally grown vegetables.  
Asparagus
Avocado
Cabbage

Cantaloupe
Sweet corn (non-GMO)
Eggplant

Grapefruit
Kiwi
Mango

Mushrooms
Onions
Papayas (non-GMO. Most Hawaiian papaya is GMO)

Pineapple
Sweet peas (frozen)
Sweet potatoes








.-
Posted by: Averno, Saturday, May 17, 2014, 1:05pm; Reply: 11
Quoted Text

Eating meals later in the day may also adversely influence the success of a weight loss therapy. This difference in weight loss success was not explained by differences in caloric intake, macronutrient distribution or energy expenditure.  A potential mechanism explaining this difference is that the timing of food intake can influence the circadian system.  The circadian system must continuously adapt to and synchronise our physiology with the environment.  A genetic variance in clock genes may be important in meal timing, possibly in part by changes in the recently demonstrated circadian control of hunger and appetite.
Another recent study demonstrated that a high carbohydrate and protein breakfast may prevent weight regain by reducing diet-induced compensatory changes in hunger, cravings and ghrelin suppression. Although the mechanisms linking the timing of meals and the regulation of body weight are unknown, satiety hormones, such as leptin or ghrelin, may be involved. Changes in the levels of these hormones by circadian misalignment could influence energy intake and expenditure.



There's gold in them thar hills!

Quoted Text


Novel therapeutic strategies should incorporate not only the energy and
macronutrient content but also the frequency and timing of food. Further larger scale, long-term studies are essential before offering recommendations in terms of meal frequency.



Looks like a good study to me, pointing towards a crucial focus.

Posted by: ruthiegirl, Monday, May 19, 2014, 4:58pm; Reply: 12
Goldie- didn't you meet with Dr D or one of his associates personally? What did the doctor say about how to time your meals?

I'd take the advice of a naturopath who'd actually examined you over a study in a research journal. Never mind what worked better for "most people in the study group." What works best for you personally?
Posted by: Goldie, Tuesday, May 20, 2014, 12:42pm; Reply: 13
Ruthygirl... short answer here ... No .. but for more of why not look at my this post in

http://www.dadamo.com/cgi-bin/Blah/Blah.pl?m-1399469344/


As for diabetic's eating patterns.. I wonder if anyone has the correct answer. They say drop 10 pounds every year, or diabetes will kick up.. well in the process of dieting, each person has to do it his or her way.. My (obstinance) way is that I will always go back to low carbs,, (it works for me) eating more or less is on issue more mentally than physically..... I get in trouble when I think of food, so I might prefer  to eat fewer meals, while my blood sugar might prefer more frequent meals.. the trick is in the word meal... one or two grapes or 4 nuts are not a meal.. and when tired sugar is absorbed soooo instant giving energy, its easy to see why people falter.. --- I also think that when I am bored, tired, or looking for diversion its easy to reach for 'something'. I noticed that yesterday, when I was busy doing things but every chance I got I wanted one more de-caf.. habitual behavior..   and therein is the eating dilemma.. it takes time to 'get it' that they don' get it=== ergo== it takes time to 'get it' that 'I' don't get it.  Progresses come in very small discoveries...    
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