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BTD Forums  /  Supp Right For Your Type  /  Any O's / Hunters taking 5HTP for Mood Support?
Posted by: BluesSinger, Tuesday, December 3, 2013, 3:45am
My natural path has been prescribing BioIdentical Hormone Cream which I have been taking for a couple of months with not much success.  She has slowly been increasing the dosage and again with not much success.  My body is still hot flashing.  What I have noticed is that my mood is getting depressed and downright hopeless.  I have more sadness, etc.  

So I quit the cream two days ago.

Today I went in and she moved me from the cream to the Patches and added a Progesterone pill -her theory being that the cream does not absorb as well in some people.  She also wanted me to stop the Tryptophen I have been taking at night and begin 5-Htp instead for mood support.

So in researching these bio-identical hormones some of the people love them and some have really upsetting side effects like weight gain, hair loss over time and all kinds of other irritating symptoms.  It's kind of flat out scaring me.  As well... I know that the hormones cause the moodiness I was feeling.  So the 5-Htp would be like a bandaid to the moodiness that the hormones might cause.

What to do?!!!!  My Swami does not recommend 5-Htp but I know many have success with it.  I remember that we are not supposed to take 5-Htp if it's made with Grapefruit seed extract which I think most are.  So that's why I have really never taken it.

I do NOT want to gain weight and struggle with that after all my hard work of getting it off.  And I certainly do not want the other side effects I have read about from the Bioidentical Hormones even though many seem not to have them.

I have tried Fem-Balance and it does not work for me.  I have spent money on several supplements including one called Transitions and it does not work.  The hot flashes continue on rampant!

I hope someone out there has some experience in this or can help out with some comments and suggestions.

Thank you kindly.
Posted by: Lola, Tuesday, December 3, 2013, 7:05am; Reply: 1
http://www.bing.com/search?cp=1252&FORM=FREESS&q=+5-Htp&q1=site%3Adadamo.com
Posted by: ruthiegirl, Tuesday, December 3, 2013, 2:09pm; Reply: 2
Dr D recommends 5-HTP in the "stress protocol" for nonnies (of all 4  blood types) but not for secretors. I've been taking it for years and do well on it; in fact, I was taking 5-HTP even before I found BTD. However, I'm a nonnie so my experience may not match yours.

But, just because a supplement "isn't good for secretors in general" does not necessarily mean that it won't work for you personally. I don't know if it would cause any harm to try it;  IMO it's more likely to "not help you" than it is to do any kind of actual damage.

I also suggest you look into Bach Flower Remedies for the mood symptoms.
Posted by: deblynn3, Tuesday, December 3, 2013, 2:22pm; Reply: 3
Investigate Chaste Tree Berries see if you think it might do you some good. It regulates the estrogen and progesterone levels. Has helped my menopausal PMS as well as my teenage niece.

I also believe it's in Nap's FemBalance  
Posted by: jeanb, Tuesday, December 3, 2013, 4:55pm; Reply: 4
Hot flashes indicate lower levels of estrogen, my question is why would your doctor give you progesterone?

Progesterone counters the effect of high levels of estrogen.  If you have had relatively high levels of estrogen throughout your life, you will experience the effects of lower estrogen like hot flashes.  Progesterone could make those hot flashes more intense.

Are you sure the hot flashes are not from a compromised liver?
Posted by: Chloe, Tuesday, December 3, 2013, 5:32pm; Reply: 5
I'm an A secretor and 5 htp really improves my mood... So not sure about the rule that this doesn't apply to secretors.  Actually, out of every supplement I've tried for fibromyalgia, this is
the only one that helps me feel happy!  And makes me feel calm.  I take one pill before I go to bed.  I felt depressed prior to using it and I feel very different when I forget to take it. So although I'm not
type O, I'm taking it because it works.

Here's how I learned about 5htp.  I fit the profile of someone who was deficient in serotonin.. I've tried SAMe
before and almost felt suicidal...GABA made me feel like a zombie. .so sometimes you just have to think outside of the box and do whatever feels right for you.

http://www.needs.com/product/NDNL-0712-01/l_5_HTP

I would also recommend Detoxical....Works on the liver...helps detox toxic forms of estrogen.
http://www.4yourtype.com/prodinfo.asp?number=NP053

Also crucifer vegetables help balance the estrogen your body makes.  Broccoli, cauliflower, Brussels sprouts,
many others

http://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?tname=btnews&dbid=126

This product *I take one per day helps balance hormones although you could just eat the crucifer veggies
http://www.lef.org/Vitamins-Supplements/Item01468/Triple-Action-Cruciferous-Vegetable-Extract.html

For type O, eating wheat blocks dopamine....So if you haven't done a lectin cleanse by totally avoiding wheat and by taking Deflect O for awhile, it might help your mood by prying off old lectin damage...and OTOH, eating protein and getting plenty of exercise, increases dopamine for type O. (ie, happiness)
Posted by: BluesSinger, Tuesday, December 3, 2013, 7:55pm; Reply: 6
Quoted from jeanb
Hot flashes indicate lower levels of estrogen, my question is why would your doctor give you progesterone?

Progesterone counters the effect of high levels of estrogen.  If you have had relatively high levels of estrogen throughout your life, you will experience the effects of lower estrogen like hot flashes.  Progesterone could make those hot flashes more intense.

Are you sure the hot flashes are not from a compromised liver?


Hi there.. with the Vivelle Dot it's highly recommended to put those still with their Uterus intact on Progesterone as well.  I have been on the BHT specially compounded Troche's, the cream, have tried several natural therapies including Fem Bal and hot flashes continue.  So this is our latest attempt to get these under control.

I don't know about the compromised liver issue.  What does that mean?  And what would compromise it?

Quoted from Chloe
I'm an A secretor and 5 htp really improves my mood... So not sure about the rule that this doesn't apply to secretors.  Actually, out of every supplement I've tried for fibromyalgia, this is
the only one that helps me feel happy!  And makes me feel calm.  I take one pill before I go to bed.  I felt depressed prior to using it and I feel very different when I forget to take it. So although I'm not
type O, I'm taking it because it works.

Here's how I learned about 5htp.  I fit the profile of someone who was deficient in serotonin.. I've tried SAMe
before and almost felt suicidal...GABA made me feel like a zombie. .so sometimes you just have to think outside of the box and do whatever feels right for you.

http://www.needs.com/product/NDNL-0712-01/l_5_HTP

I would also recommend Detoxical....Works on the liver...helps detox toxic forms of estrogen.
http://www.4yourtype.com/prodinfo.asp?number=NP053

Also crucifer vegetables help balance the estrogen your body makes.  Broccoli, cauliflower, Brussels sprouts,
many others

http://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?tname=btnews&dbid=126

This product *I take one per day helps balance hormones although you could just eat the crucifer veggies
http://www.lef.org/Vitamins-Supplements/Item01468/Triple-Action-Cruciferous-Vegetable-Extract.html

For type O, eating wheat blocks dopamine....So if you haven't done a lectin cleanse by totally avoiding wheat and by taking Deflect O for awhile, it might help your mood by prying off old lectin damage...and OTOH, eating protein and getting plenty of exercise, increases dopamine for type O. (ie, happiness)


Well it seems that this is the issue for O Secretors... what it's made of - Griffonia simplicifolia.  I found a brand that was not made with this years ago and for the life of me I can't find it anymore.  I might have to go back to my old medical records and find the receipt.  I read the Mood Cure/Diet Cure Books by Julia Ross and my amino acid cocktail, which has literally changed my life has been L-Tyrosine, h DL Phenylanine, L Gultamine and at night I take L-Tryptophan.  This combo has made me feel balanced and sane and has helped my cravings immensely.  I'm really not wanting to mess with this combo by letting go of my L-Trytophan!  

I haven't eaten ANY Wheat for over 6 months now.  I've pretty much exercised every day since then and have been doing saunas at least 5 nights a week which really help my pain levels and made me feel really good overall.  

I'm really interested in that last supp you listed since I always try to get enough veggies but don't always manage that very well.    Do you think it would mess with the BHT I'm currently doing?

thanks all.. fantastic info.     :)
Posted by: Chloe, Tuesday, December 3, 2013, 8:09pm; Reply: 7
Six months of doing everything right might still not be all the cleansing your body needs to do.
Have you tried the new Membrosia combo?  

I took plain L tryptophan for quite awhile but for me personally 5htp was far better for both pain
and depression.

I can't say I would know if crucifer vegetable in extract form would mess with the BHT you're currently doing.  Perhaps an O or a moderator would be able to tell you.

Hope you find a solution that works for you  {{{{hugs}}}}
Posted by: BluesSinger, Tuesday, December 3, 2013, 11:27pm; Reply: 8
Quoted from Chloe
Six months of doing everything right might still not be all the cleansing your body needs to do.
Have you tried the new Membrosia combo?  

I took plain L tryptophan for quite awhile but for me personally 5htp was far better for both pain
and depression.

I can't say I would know if crucifer vegetable in extract form would mess with the BHT you're currently doing.  Perhaps an O or a moderator would be able to tell you.

Hope you find a solution that works for you  {{{{hugs}}}}


thank you!!! :K)

Posted by: Christopher1, Monday, December 9, 2013, 1:55pm; Reply: 9
I thought O's do better with tyrosine.
Posted by: BluesSinger, Monday, December 9, 2013, 3:25pm; Reply: 10
Quoted from Christopher1
I thought O's do better with tyrosine.


yup that's what I take and I'm good with it.  I'm not going to listen to my NP as she is not a BTD practitioner.  
Posted by: ruthiegirl, Monday, December 9, 2013, 3:58pm; Reply: 11
Quoted from Christopher1
I thought O's do better with tyrosine.


I can't take tyrosine because it can cause high blood pressure.

In general, Os have enough serotonin and need extra dopamine. The supplement suggestions reflect that general trend. However, some individual Os have low serotonin.
Posted by: Christopher1, Tuesday, December 10, 2013, 10:23pm; Reply: 12
Serotonin is associated with increased estrogen, prolactin, and inflammation. All things you do not want.

That's why people on SSRI's experience weight gain, thyroid problems, and anorgasmia.

I would not try to actively raise serotonin.
Posted by: Patty H, Wednesday, December 11, 2013, 12:26am; Reply: 13
Ok, so I would like to chime in here as well.  I had pretty severe menopausal symptoms and my MD sent me to an MD who specializes in bio-identical hormones.  I was put on them and felt better almost immediately.  Roll the film forward and I went to see another doctor, a chiropractor who does more advanced blood, urine and genetic testing.  Come to find out, because I am toxic in lead and mercury, although the bio-identical hormones made me feel great, I was not clearing the by-products of any of my hormones and this build up can cause breast cancer and other cancers of the reproductive system.

I have learned that hormones can be good and bad for all.  Saying that hot flashes are caused by an estrogen deficiency is not correct for everyone.  We are all individuals.  Through the testing it was found that my hormone deficiency was higher up the hormone chain - I am deficient in DHEA.  I take a natural supplement that helps me to produce more DHEA and I take another natural supplement that helps me to process the leftover hormones my body does not need.

Hormone balance is an individual thing.  There are a lot of theories out there but remember that you are an individual.   If you can find someone who can do more advanced testing (and you can afford it or your insurance will cover it if you have insurance) I would highly recommend you proceed with caution.  Taking the wrong hormones or too much or too little of a hormone can throw everything off balance.

Best of luck with your challenges.  I still suffer from night sweats and occasional hot flashes, but since I have gone on a regimen that is tailored to my specific needs, I feel much better.  
Posted by: BluesSinger, Wednesday, December 11, 2013, 3:03pm; Reply: 14
Quoted from Patty H
Ok, so I would like to chime in here as well.  I had pretty severe menopausal symptoms and my MD sent me to an MD who specializes in bio-identical hormones.  I was put on them and felt better almost immediately.  Roll the film forward and I went to see another doctor, a chiropractor who does more advanced blood, urine and genetic testing.  Come to find out, because I am toxic in lead and mercury, although the bio-identical hormones made me feel great, I was not clearing the by-products of any of my hormones and this build up can cause breast cancer and other cancers of the reproductive system.

I have learned that hormones can be good and bad for all.  Saying that hot flashes are caused by an estrogen deficiency is not correct for everyone.  We are all individuals.  Through the testing it was found that my hormone deficiency was higher up the hormone chain - I am deficient in DHEA.  I take a natural supplement that helps me to produce more DHEA and I take another natural supplement that helps me to process the leftover hormones my body does not need.

Hormone balance is an individual thing.  There are a lot of theories out there but remember that you are an individual.   If you can find someone who can do more advanced testing (and you can afford it or your insurance will cover it if you have insurance) I would highly recommend you proceed with caution.  Taking the wrong hormones or too much or too little of a hormone can throw everything off balance.

Best of luck with your challenges.  I still suffer from night sweats and occasional hot flashes, but since I have gone on a regimen that is tailored to my specific needs, I feel much better.  



THANK YOU!!!!  I'm getting irritated as I'm still hot flashing although they have dampened down a bit... I'm going to run your post by my Naturalpath soon after I give these patches and pills a week longer to see if things improve.    I do takes Sauna's on an average of 5 nights a week so I'm hoping between the saunas and good eating that I'm detoxing on a regular basis.  
Posted by: BluesSinger, Wednesday, December 11, 2013, 3:08pm; Reply: 15
Quoted from ruthiegirl


I can't take tyrosine because it can cause high blood pressure.

In general, Os have enough serotonin and need extra dopamine. The supplement suggestions reflect that general trend. However, some individual Os have low serotonin.


yes indeed my blood pressure did go up a bit but I started taking Co-Q 10 which took care of that.

I did the testing in the Diet Cure / Mood Cure Books and Tyrosine was HIGH on the list for me and it worked wonders.  Years ago I tried taking something the upped Dopamine and started having symptoms of too much so I quit that right away!  

However after taking Tyrosine, D-phenylalanine for well over 2 years now.. my brain is telling me to cut back.. which is a great thing!  That means I'm getting enough from my diet and my brain is healing!  I never thought it would happen!  

Quoted from Christopher1
Serotonin is associated with increased estrogen, prolactin, and inflammation. All things you do not want.

That's why people on SSRI's experience weight gain, thyroid problems, and anorgasmia.

I would not try to actively raise serotonin.


Well maybe for some, but I'm not having those issues, nor did I ever have those issues from any of the amino acids I have been taking or the Tryptophan I have been taking at night and will continue to take.
Posted by: Amazone I., Thursday, December 12, 2013, 8:41am; Reply: 16
adrenal fatigue shows up the same symptoms as menopausal issues doe ... :o :-/ :P
perhaps get checked first for what does those *hot flashes really stand for*.... ;) :D.... since I'm on several products for a.f. I don't experience any hot flush anymore !!!  :D..yay...(woot)(ok)(woot)(hehe)(grin) and remember O's and AB's have something in common, the catecholamine overload ;) ...
Posted by: BluesSinger, Thursday, December 12, 2013, 2:09pm; Reply: 17
Quoted from Amazone I.
adrenal fatigue shows up the same symptoms as menopausal issues doe ... :o :-/ :P
perhaps get checked first for what does those *hot flashes really stand for*.... ;) :D.... since I'm on several products for a.f. I don't experience any hot flush anymore !!!  :D..yay...(woot)(ok)(woot)(hehe)(grin) and remember O's and AB's have something in common, the catecholamine overload ;) ...


thank you Amazone. :)  I don't really feel like I have A.F.  so I'm not sure...

What products are you on?
Posted by: Goldie, Thursday, December 12, 2013, 8:28pm; Reply: 18
Not having read any...

I took it for a few days to get my backbone back.. it worled now I take them once or teice a month.. works well..
Posted by: BluesSinger, Wednesday, March 5, 2014, 3:40pm; Reply: 19
Well I'm OFF the bioidentical hormones for 4 weeks now as they were causing complete body pain, and I'm also off everything related to trying to fix my hormonal night sweats. I have a few light hot flashes during the day but nothing really major anymore.. but the night sweats are getting worse.

I still don't have the funds to get to a decent BTD Natural path but as soon as I do, I'm going to try and get this all figured out!
Posted by: susanC, Wednesday, March 5, 2014, 4:20pm; Reply: 20
I will chime in here with my own experience with bio-identical hormone replacement. One dose sent me into a very weird hot rush which felt a little like my head would explode.  The one dose was the last dose for me. Years later I learned that I have gene deletions on the Phase 1 & 2 liver detox pathways and that I should NEVER do hormone replacement therapy.  I guess I figured that out on my own. ;) Anyway--those of us who have impaired detox pathways should never take hormone replacements. So, if it doesn't seem to be working for you--there could be a very good reason.

And 5HTP gives me mild symptoms of Serotonin Syndrome so I stay away from that too.
Posted by: BCgal, Wednesday, March 5, 2014, 5:41pm; Reply: 21
Are any of you hot flash gals taking anything extra to support your livers?  The liver processes our hormones and with all the different things I've tried over the years, I've found that when my liver was functioning well, my hot flushes were much better.   Just a thought.
Posted by: Jane, Wednesday, March 5, 2014, 6:13pm; Reply: 22
My endo had me try one years ago for poor sleep.  It was a very low dose patch that he had me cut in half.  I wore it for a few days and for my 60th b'day I got my period.  I took it off and never wore one again.  It wasn't what I wanted for my b'day.
Posted by: BluesSinger, Wednesday, March 5, 2014, 6:47pm; Reply: 23
Quoted from Jane
My endo had me try one years ago for poor sleep.  It was a very low dose patch that he had me cut in half.  I wore it for a few days and for my 60th b'day I got my period.  I took it off and never wore one again.  It wasn't what I wanted for my b'day.


oh!!!!!!!!!!!!!   i'm sorry but that cracked me up!   :P

also just had my liver enzymes checked and they are great.  
Posted by: aussielady582, Thursday, March 6, 2014, 6:15am; Reply: 24
We are so individual, and so may take time to find what works for you.  I did not find bio-id hormones worked, or just taking this type of supplement or that one.
What is working is the changes in lifestyle, daily habits, having more time to rest/relax, getting to bed earlier, not trying to do too much or please too many people, not rushing around like I used to, processing my emotions and past events rather than just ignoring or suppressing my thoughts, ie 'slowing down', as a lovely Indian-born Ahurvedic lady doctor told me to about 5 yrs ago.
yoga, breathing exercises, meditation, improving liver function as comment above mentions.
Even if a medical test for liver enzymes is fine, this doesn't mean the liver is not effected in an energetic way, or in subtle ways that a blood test can't see, which is why TCM and Ayurveda comes in, and I think Dr D has used these philosophies in GT and maybe, swami.
The liver is also affected by certain emotions (resentment, anger, frustration) and if bowels are sluggish or toxic, so sometimes, it can be different factors all coming into play.
A fresh wholesome diet, which works with the natural bio-rythyms of the day, may also work for you, ie warm breakfast, a raw fresh juice around 11am, lunch around 11:30 or 12,  early dinner around 5:30pm, early to bed. Even simple things can change the physiology, how the liver functions, etc.
Keep in touch, wish you the very best and success with improvement.
Posted by: aussielady582, Thursday, March 6, 2014, 6:16am; Reply: 25
We are so individual, and so may take time to find what works for you.  I did not find bio-id hormones worked, or just taking this type of supplement or that one.
What is working is the changes in lifestyle, daily habits, having more time to rest/relax, getting to bed earlier, not trying to do too much or please too many people, not rushing around like I used to, processing my emotions and past events rather than just ignoring or suppressing my thoughts, ie 'slowing down', as a lovely Indian-born Ahurvedic lady doctor told me to about 5 yrs ago.
yoga, breathing exercises, meditation, improving liver function as comment above mentions.
Even if a medical test for liver enzymes is fine, this doesn't mean the liver is not effected in an energetic way, or in subtle ways that a blood test can't see, which is why TCM and Ayurveda comes in, and I think Dr D has used these philosophies in GT and maybe, swami.
The liver is also affected by certain emotions (resentment, anger, frustration) and if bowels are sluggish or toxic, so sometimes, it can be different factors all coming into play.
A fresh wholesome diet, which works with the natural bio-rythyms of the day, may also work for you, ie warm breakfast, a raw fresh juice around 11am, lunch around 11:30 or 12,  early dinner around 5:30pm, early to bed. Even simple things can change the physiology, how the liver functions, etc.
Keep in touch, wish you the very best and success with improvement.
Posted by: BluesSinger, Thursday, March 6, 2014, 3:21pm; Reply: 26
Quoted from aussielady582
We are so individual, and so may take time to find what works for you.  I did not find bio-id hormones worked, or just taking this type of supplement or that one.
What is working is the changes in lifestyle, daily habits, having more time to rest/relax, getting to bed earlier, not trying to do too much or please too many people, not rushing around like I used to, processing my emotions and past events rather than just ignoring or suppressing my thoughts, ie 'slowing down', as a lovely Indian-born Ahurvedic lady doctor told me to about 5 yrs ago.
yoga, breathing exercises, meditation, improving liver function as comment above mentions.
Even if a medical test for liver enzymes is fine, this doesn't mean the liver is not effected in an energetic way, or in subtle ways that a blood test can't see, which is why TCM and Ayurveda comes in, and I think Dr D has used these philosophies in GT and maybe, swami.
The liver is also affected by certain emotions (resentment, anger, frustration) and if bowels are sluggish or toxic, so sometimes, it can be different factors all coming into play.
A fresh wholesome diet, which works with the natural bio-rythyms of the day, may also work for you, ie warm breakfast, a raw fresh juice around 11am, lunch around 11:30 or 12,  early dinner around 5:30pm, early to bed. Even simple things can change the physiology, how the liver functions, etc.
Keep in touch, wish you the very best and success with improvement.


Well Thank you!  such a lovely email!  I work my Swami close to 100% most days and have done immense Spiritual work overtime and we try not to eat past 6 and get to bed quite early.  I have lost 52 lbs in the last 10 months and the things that are revealing themselves are the deepest disease patterns that were hidden below all the other disease that have since healed now and disappeared.  Those are joint problems which I am working on with Swami and supplements.  Hormonal shifts are here... and the night sweats are an issue. As well some anxiety in the very early morning hours as well.. but I'm sure that is from the internal shifts toward realizing that life is temporary and the deeper wonderful wisdoms of existence that many Women in this Menopause phase begin to come into.  Writing is something I have not been doing and that helps me shift the intense emotional energies that pile of inside of me.  I am an artist who writes poems and songs so this is a very important outlet for me that I have not had time to honor lately.  Walking and exercise of course is great for emotional balance but the writing I need to start with again.

When I get the funds I will go and see the BTD Naturalpath doctor.  But for now... I'm doing the absolute best I can and I keep my fan on all night!   :P
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