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BTD Forums  /  SWAMI Xpress  /  Once again my nutrionist is bumming me out...
Posted by: Enobattar, Sunday, September 8, 2013, 3:48pm
While discussing fermented foods to add back into my diet as I heal my gut, he 'gave me the look' when I told him I had already begun to add back tofu.  ...."That's fermented, right?", says I to him.  "Not necessarily", says he.  "But it's organic!".  Again I get 'the look'.

When asked to explain he cautioned that today it is hard to find naturally fermented 'anything'.  He said a lot of it is chemically fermented. (!?)

When I mentioned tempe, he said that, yes, that would be fermented naturally. Whew!  But we also discussed more foods which I can't remember right now, all of which he said, "organic or not" were suspect to chemical fermentation.

Thankfully someone on this forum gave us a recipe to ferment our own veggies to which, when mentioned, he raved about me doing.  So this A.M., with much fear and trepidation, I uncovered my first attempt at doing carrots.  Haven't yet had the nerve, I mean the opportunity to try them.  The pounding/smashing part I'm having trouble with.

I cut the carrot into sticks first, then pounded each until they cracked into pieces, then proceeded with the recipe.  Is this what the end result is to be?  Cracked pieces?  How about if I do green beans?

Can anyone share the particulars with me?

Thanks.
Posted by: Victoria, Sunday, September 8, 2013, 5:04pm; Reply: 1
I've never heard of tofu being classified as a fermented food.  It is soymilk that has a coagulant (such as magnesium chloride) added to it, which separates the "curd" from the clear liquid.  The soy curd is then strained and pressed into cakes.

Tempeh is innoculated with a 'live' culture.

Most sauerkraut sold in large grocery stores is not actually fermented (cultured).  It has a vinegar base, which pickles the cabbage.  Homemade cultured vegetables are a different food, and are full of beneficial living microorganisms.  
Posted by: Drea, Sunday, September 8, 2013, 10:28pm; Reply: 2
When I ferment carrots, I used the food processor to shred them. I find they break down faster that way.
Posted by: ruthiegirl, Sunday, September 8, 2013, 10:39pm; Reply: 3
If you're going to use fairly large pieces of carrot, add salt water to the mixture, like when making cucumber pickles. If you're planning to use only salt and crushed veggies, it needs to be cut REALLY small like the cabbage pieces in sauerkraut.
Posted by: Lola, Sunday, September 8, 2013, 11:56pm; Reply: 4
glad you vented here.....we are all ears! ;)
Posted by: Seraffa, Monday, September 9, 2013, 7:46am; Reply: 5
Quoted from Amazone I.
INTJ to INTJ..from what are you talkin about ....... instead of trying to be common as .. what & whom at all :)... dearle..tell me what's up.... ??)  would you perhaps become
ok what that  really means to be * US* ??!............ 8)(whistle)(clap)(ok)(dance)(evil) :K) truly yours amiga Isa
aaaaaaaand don't even think to stick any carrots into pieces... a true no go for nonnies. :B ;) :P ;D...........



(book2) (dictionary) (((hugs Isa at same time)))

:) ;) em - is this supposed to look like chow-chow when it is finished, Enobattar?
Posted by: Seraffa, Monday, September 9, 2013, 7:47am; Reply: 6
Quoted from Victoria
I've never heard of tofu being classified as a fermented food.  It is soymilk that has a coagulant (such as magnesium chloride) added to it, which separates the "curd" from the clear liquid.  The soy curd is then strained and pressed into cakes.
  


Yeah - that's why tofu looks a lot like unbrined feta cakes. No fermentation.

Posted by: Seraffa, Monday, September 9, 2013, 7:51am; Reply: 7
Quoted from Enobattar

When asked to explain he cautioned that today it is hard to find naturally fermented 'anything'.  He said a lot of it is chemically fermented. (!?)


Does anyone know if there is authentic fermenting culture sold - much like the way vegan rennet is sold - for making special recipies at home?  :)
Posted by: SquarePeg, Monday, September 9, 2013, 12:13pm; Reply: 8
You can buy fermented cabbage (sauerkraut).  Check out your HFS or the ethnic section of your supermarket.  
Posted by: ruthiegirl, Monday, September 9, 2013, 12:22pm; Reply: 9
Here's a website with lots of information: http://www.wildfermentation.com/

There's also a Facebook Group with the name "wild fermentation" that's very active and is full of information.  Sandor Katz also wrote a  book called "wild fermentation" that you may be able to borrow from your local library.

You don't need any special equipment to make  veggie ferments.
Posted by: Amazone I., Monday, September 9, 2013, 1:04pm; Reply: 10
sorry Seraffa... just delet it ... better... ;)....(hehe)(whistle)(evil)
Posted by: Enobattar, Monday, September 9, 2013, 4:38pm; Reply: 11
Quoted from Drea
When I ferment carrots, I used the food processor to shred them. I find they break down faster that way.


Thanks, Drea!  I'll try that next time.  Still haven't had the nerve to try my first attempt at carrots yet.

I guess, slice the green beans into slivers, too?  Kind of like real thin French cut green beans?

Very helpful, thanks.  :)
Posted by: Enobattar, Monday, September 9, 2013, 4:42pm; Reply: 12
Quoted from Seraffa



(book2) (dictionary) (((hugs Isa at same time)))

:) ;) em - is this supposed to look like chow-chow when it is finished, Enobattar?


Where did you get that quote that you included in your post of Amazone I's?  I could not find it.  I also want to so much understand her message.  Especially the last line about the carrots!   ??)

If the carrots are grated as Drea suggests, perhaps it will end up looking like chow-chow.  Not sure what you meant, either.  :) ::) :B :-/ ??) :)
Posted by: Enobattar, Monday, September 9, 2013, 4:43pm; Reply: 13
Quoted from Seraffa


Yeah - that's why tofu looks a lot like unbrined feta cakes. No fermentation.



I read that tofu was fermented soybeans.  ???

Posted by: ruthiegirl, Monday, September 9, 2013, 7:06pm; Reply: 14
Tofu isn't exactly fermented. It's soymilk (cooked, pureed, strained soybeans) that's curdled, then the liquid strained out. When made with non-GMO soy, it's a healthy food for most As, but it's not a fermented food. You can't rely on it as a source of healthy probiotics.

Miso is a form of fermented soybeans. It's a thick paste that's usually diluted and used in soups (often with chunks of tofu floating in the soup.) Traditionally, miso is added to fish broths, but it can also be added to hot water for a vegetarian soup.

It's possible that somebody mistakenly posted online that tofu was fermented- it might have been somebody else's mistake, not your own.
Posted by: Cristina, Monday, September 9, 2013, 7:19pm; Reply: 15
Miso is Yum as a spread on sourdough bread or rice cakes or as a dip for veggie crudities ... :)
Posted by: Chloe, Monday, September 9, 2013, 8:04pm; Reply: 16
Quoted from Cristina
Miso is Yum as a spread on sourdough bread or rice cakes or as a dip for veggie crudities ... :)


straight out of the jar or container or do you mix it with anything?  I add miso to salad dressings...
I just whisk in a few tsp.

Posted by: Enobattar, Wednesday, September 11, 2013, 12:39pm; Reply: 17
Quoted from ruthiegirl
Miso is a form of fermented soybeans. It's a thick paste that's usually diluted and used in soups (often with chunks of tofu floating in the soup.) Traditionally, miso is added to fish broths, but it can also be added to hot water for a vegetarian soup.


I forgot to mention that my nutrionist also winced when I mentioned miso (as I do use it as you described above).  "...even if it is organic?!", says I, again.   ...'even if', says he.  You just have to read carefully the package to try to determine if it is naturally fermented or not.  

My brand is Genmai Miso 'Aged  Fermented Soy & Brown Rice.  Ingredients list as:  organic whole soybeans, organic brown rice, sea salt, water, Koji Aspergillus oryzae.  Could this last ingredient be the 'chemical' to which my nutritionist was referring?
Posted by: Andrea AWsec, Wednesday, September 11, 2013, 1:04pm; Reply: 18
i would find someone else to give my money too ::)


Why do you see this person?
Posted by: ruthiegirl, Wednesday, September 11, 2013, 2:54pm; Reply: 19
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aspergillus_oryzae It's just a natural fungus used to ferment miso.

I have never in my life seen or heard of "un natural miso." I've seen powdered miso soup mixes that didn't contain any live cultures. I've seen plenty of soy sauces that were horrible combinations of corn syrup and caramel coloring and other chemicals, instead of naturally brewed tamari or shoyu,  but I've never, ever heard of "chemical miso" until just now.
Posted by: Enobattar, Wednesday, September 11, 2013, 3:45pm; Reply: 20
Quoted from Andrea AWsec
i would find someone else to give my money too ::)


Why do you see this person?


There's not much choice in my area.
Posted by: Enobattar, Wednesday, September 11, 2013, 3:48pm; Reply: 21
Quoted from ruthiegirl
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aspergillus_oryzae It's just a natural fungus used to ferment miso.

I have never in my life seen or heard of "un natural miso." I've seen powdered miso soup mixes that didn't contain any live cultures. I've seen plenty of soy sauces that were horrible combinations of corn syrup and caramel coloring and other chemicals, instead of naturally brewed tamari or shoyu,  but I've never, ever heard of "chemical miso" until just now.


Cool.  That means that my brand is a good one.  Thanks.

Instead of soy sauce or tamari, I use Braggs aminos.  The label plainly states that it is NOT fermented.  Could someone tell me a brand of soy sauce that is?
Posted by: Andrea AWsec, Wednesday, September 11, 2013, 8:54pm; Reply: 22
Why do you go to someone? better to drive to Dr. D's once a year and spend your money on his advice.

When I was in Brooklyn with him people traveled long distances to seek his advice and guidance.
Posted by: Chloe, Wednesday, September 11, 2013, 11:23pm; Reply: 23
Quoted from Andrea AWsec
Why do you go to someone? better to drive to Dr. D's once a year and spend your money on his advice.

When I was in Brooklyn with him people traveled long distances to seek his advice and guidance.


I'm in total agreement.  Worth a trip from anywhere IMHO!  How far could it be from PA to Bridgeport?  
Wonder if you could take a train.
Posted by: Enobattar, Thursday, September 12, 2013, 4:36pm; Reply: 24
Quoted from Andrea AWsec
Why do you go to someone? better to drive to Dr. D's once a year and spend your money on his advice.

When I was in Brooklyn with him people traveled long distances to seek his advice and guidance.


That would be my 'dream come true'.
Posted by: Enobattar, Thursday, September 12, 2013, 4:38pm; Reply: 25
Quoted from Chloe


I'm in total agreement.  Worth a trip from anywhere IMHO!  How far could it be from PA to Bridgeport?  
Wonder if you could take a train.


A train????  Now there's a thought.....   Thanks.
Posted by: Chloe, Thursday, September 12, 2013, 4:39pm; Reply: 26
Quoted from Enobattar


That would be my 'dream come true'.


How far are you from Bridgeport?  

Posted by: ruthiegirl, Thursday, September 12, 2013, 5:28pm; Reply: 27
Is it costing you a lot of money to see this nutritionist, and is he (she?) helping you with any current health problems, in spite of the disagreements you're having about fermented foods?

If this person is still helping you, it may be worth continuing to go, even though it's not a perfect fit. If this is fully covered under your health insurance, it may well be worth a little inconvenience and frustration if it's helping you at all. I feel that way about my kids' pediatricians- the checkups are mainly a waste of time, but it fulfills needed school paperwork and it only costs me the gas to get there, plus I keep a relationship with a doctor in case of some kind of emergency. For that, it's worth ignoring some of  their advice.

However, if this person is no longer helping you, and/or it's costing you a lot of money for each visit, you may want to simply "stop going" and save up the money for a visit to CT to visit with Dr D (or one of his associates or students.)
Posted by: Enobattar, Friday, September 13, 2013, 6:21pm; Reply: 28
Chloe and Ruthiegirl... Don't worry.  I'm not stupid.  I only use him when I want a 3rd opinion.  I have no insurance and do not let loose of my money easily.

But it would still be a treat to go see Dr. D.  :)
Posted by: Andrea AWsec, Friday, September 13, 2013, 8:15pm; Reply: 29
Actually you see the students at the Center for Excellence Dr. D oversees them-- but you will meet him in the course of your visit.


:)  Hope you decide to go and report back to us.
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