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BTD Forums  /  Eat Right 4 Your Type  /  Rabbit, raw fish/seafood, saponins in quinoa, etc
Posted by: aussielady582, Wednesday, February 6, 2013, 4:32am
Happy birthday to the four people with birthdays today!
Anyone (incl 'hunter' genotype or nonnies eating rabbit?, am thinking of trying, as having probs with too much red meat. I did cook spatchcock for the first time the other day, and enjoyed it.
Would also like to know how to prepare some raw fish to eat, like snapper, cod, sardines, if I marinate in lemon juice for a day and keep in fridge, will it be ok to eat! lemon juice may break down the fibres, my digestive system is still weak.  will the lemon juice get rid of any bad bacteria in the fish?
I tried prickly pear (fruit) for the first time last week, interesting; I assume it is good for enzymes - for 'nonnies'.  not too keen on the seeds inside though.
I miss eating split mung beans/daal and red lentils - but won't bring them back any time soon.
from Chapter 7 in "the Paleo Answer" by L. Cordain, page 139; I note Saponin content of Beans, Legumes and Soy.   Lentils = 1,100 mg/kg.    Mung beans = 500.      Quinoa = 5,000.    amaranth =  790.   Plus amaranth has oxalic acid - too much of that, can lead to kidney stones.
saponins are only one of the antinutrients in some plant foods.
I miss amaranth more than quinoa.
So, not all plant foods are good for us, even though they may have good amounts of protein, or nutrients.
For leaky syndrome people and those with chronic health issues, best to stick to veg, fruits, animal proteins maybe. what do you all think?
Posted by: Possum, Wednesday, February 6, 2013, 4:53am; Reply: 1
I do find rabbit a tad gamey/strong tbh, so it is not my first preference for meat...
I agree - for leaky syndrome people and those with chronic health issues, best to stick to veg, fruits, animal proteins...
I even avoid fruits that are higher in fructose compared to glucose, as they upset my system ;)
Posted by: Averno, Wednesday, February 6, 2013, 1:44pm; Reply: 2
Quoted from aussielady582

Anyone (incl 'hunter' genotype or nonnies eating rabbit?
Would also like to know how to prepare some raw fish to eat, like snapper, cod, sardines, if I marinate in lemon juice for a day and keep in fridge, will it be ok to eat! lemon juice may break down the fibres, my digestive system is still weak.  will the lemon juice get rid of any bad bacteria in the fish?


Braising the rabbit first (before stewing. Discard the water) supposedly reduces this gaminess. Never tried it myself as it's prohibitively expensive here. I'm sure there are recipes on the web.

Lemon juice will "cook" fish, so you may not want to go that route. Hard to imagine that fish is too fibrous for you.  Are you sure this is the problem?

I like to marinate fish in EVOO with seasoning. Not sure that this would be recommended if bacteria is an issue. I read that all wild caught fish sold in the US is frozen aboard ship to kill parasites. If you are getting yours from a local fishmonger...
Posted by: ABJoe, Wednesday, February 6, 2013, 4:38pm; Reply: 3
Quoted from Averno
I read that all wild caught fish sold in the US is frozen aboard ship to kill parasites. If you are getting yours from a local fishmonger...

This obviously would not help Aussielady...
Posted by: ABJoe, Wednesday, February 6, 2013, 4:50pm; Reply: 4
Quoted from aussielady582
I miss eating split mung beans/daal and red lentils - but won't bring them back any time soon.
from Chapter 7 in "the Paleo Answer" by L. Cordain, page 139; I note Saponin content of Beans, Legumes and Soy.   Lentils = 1,100 mg/kg.    Mung beans = 500.      Quinoa = 5,000.    amaranth =  790.   Plus amaranth has oxalic acid - too much of that, can lead to kidney stones.
saponins are only one of the antinutrients in some plant foods.
I miss amaranth more than quinoa.
So, not all plant foods are good for us, even though they may have good amounts of protein, or nutrients.

The Paleo method does not work for me.  I find SWAMI to be the best dietary recommendation I have ever used and won't be switching away from it by choice.

I agree with the comment that not all plant foods are good for us, which are not good for each type varies, however.

Most of the legumes you have listed are ones that Dr. D. indicates are avoid for Type O Secretor, so would be bad for that type based on lectin content as well...


Posted by: ruthiegirl, Wednesday, February 6, 2013, 5:21pm; Reply: 5
My health is much better on Dr D's plan than it was on Paleo. Nearly all foods contain both nutrients and anti-nutrients. People like Dr Cordain will focus on a few specific nutrients or anti-nutrients  and determine which foods are good for everybody or should be limited in everybody. Dr D examines each food in much more depth, and does a cost/benefit analysis of each food for each small group of people (such as how foods rate for Hunters if you're following the Hunter diet from the book. He also wrote the SWAMI software that does all those calculations for each individual.)

I'm going to trust Dr D's evaluation of quinoa over Dr Cordain's generalization that "there are saponins in quinoa and that makes quinoa bad." Quinoa also contains fiber and protein and other nutrients. The saponins in the quinoa might even be beneficial in small amounts.  And it's not that hard to reduce the saponin count by rinsing the foods before cooking. Foods are so much more than the sum of their component parts, and how foods interact with human bodies is more complex than most researchers are looking into.

These paleo and low-carb books are chock full of good information, much of which makes a lot of sense for Os and for B Gatherers. But it's just one piece of the puzzle, and Dr Cordain was not interested in doing in-depth analyses of individual foods and rating them against different individual physiologies. That just wasn't his area of study. When it comes to comparing different dietary approaches, I  with Dr D because his research is much more specialized.
Posted by: Averno, Wednesday, February 6, 2013, 8:59pm; Reply: 6
Quoted from ABJoe

This obviously would not help Aussielady...


I meant that she should consider freezing any seafood she buys locally, if it has not been already.

OH! I just realized, Aussielady, that you might be referring to ceviche!     :B
Posted by: Possum, Wednesday, February 6, 2013, 9:46pm; Reply: 7
Quoted from Averno
Braising the rabbit first (before stewing. Discard the water) supposedly reduces this gaminess. Never tried it myself as it's prohibitively expensive here. I'm sure there are recipes on the web.
Good tip - Ta ;) It's actually prohibitively expensive here too tbh which made it doubly annoying when it wasn't that great ::)

Posted by: Henriette Bsec, Wednesday, February 6, 2013, 10:12pm; Reply: 8
Rabbits gamey  ??) ??) ??)
it is white meat that can taste rather like turkey imo. and need something acid to balance bland taste imo.
However hare taste gamey and is much darker meat.
Posted by: Possum, Wednesday, February 6, 2013, 10:30pm; Reply: 9
Maybe what I bought was really a hare even though called a wild rabbit??!! I certainly don't recall rabbit meat being gamey (was more quite a delicate flavour tbh) the times we had it when we were kids... ;)
Posted by: Victoria, Thursday, February 7, 2013, 3:09am; Reply: 10
Quoted from ruthiegirl
Dr D examines each food in much more depth . . He also wrote the SWAMI software that does all those calculations for each individual.)

I'm going to trust Dr D's evaluation of quinoa over Dr Cordain's generalization that "there are saponins in quinoa and that makes quinoa bad." Quinoa also contains fiber and protein and other nutrients. The saponins in the quinoa might even be beneficial in small amounts.  And it's not that hard to reduce the saponin count by rinsing the foods before cooking.

When it comes to comparing different dietary approaches, I  with Dr D because his research is much more specialized.

I agree, Ruth, and it's not blind faith.  Dr. D is driven to continue fine-tune his approach to individualized health-care.  

As to quinoa, I've been enjoying sprouted quinoa that is packaged by Tru Roots.  And I rinse it before cooking.  Quite delicious and easy for even my sensitive body to digest.
Posted by: gulfcoastguy, Thursday, February 7, 2013, 3:15am; Reply: 11
Go to foodnetwork.com and search for ceviche. I've made it 4 or five times. Traditional it is served with slices of cooked sweet potato though it is also good in rice wraps. I use lime juice, onion jalapenos, parsley or cilantro, and salt with a white fleshed fish or scallops to make it.
Posted by: aussielady582, Friday, February 8, 2013, 12:32am; Reply: 12
Hello everyone - I thankyou all so much for your wonderful tips/comments on raw fish, rabbit and quinoa; it is very helpful to hear different views/opinions - good to get us all thinking and an open mind.
I did try sprouting quinoa and amaranth (as Gabriel Cousens, MD) mentions in 'Conscious Eating'), but did not like the taste much.  In cooler wheather, I loved cooking both amaranth and quinoa together, and served it with ground flax seed, a little ghee or coconut oil, fruit and/or sweetener (used to love rice syrup but I use a little agave now).  Dr Nancy Lonsdorf (Ayruveic dr) recommends quin... and amar....as super grain foods, incl for ladies to assist hormone balance and for those who don't digest animal proteins that well.  I may still use it, but temporarily, will put these grains on hold, perhaps when autumn(fall) arrives here, I will use them occasionally, not to overload my gut with too many problematic plant foods - at one time I was also eating soy, lots of beans and grains esp when I tried the macrobiotic diet. I wish I could find sprouted quinoa in shops here, perhaps it would taste nicer than the one I made.
I forgot to mention about sprouting which lowers amount of saponins in the food, so I may sprout some mung beans this weekend as they also are good for summer, cooling to the liver, and easy to sprout in a glass jar.
I did enjoy basmati rice for the last two nights running with a good knob of ghee and coconut oil, and my system is slowly balancing out (worked well this morning after nearly a weak of problems), although my jaw is still swollen due to inflamed nerve root under tooth. I have tried to recall advice given by a wonderful ayurvedic dr I've consulted with twice in person here... some of the foods I've eating are also too heating for warm weather and nuts too heavy to digest (soaked almonds should be fine), so have cut down on them and brought in more cooling foods & spices/herbs (good for pitta - ie liver/stomach/small intestine area).
I will see if I get rabbit, depends on my trip to supermarket today - costs about same as duck I think, or perhaps a bit more - haven't eaten rabbit since teenage years when I was living in Tasmania.  (TCM has duck as cooling in energy), and good for 'nonnies'.  I still want to try a duck egg as is cooling in energy too.  so much I've never tried, I hope to catch up one day!
Anyone tried salmon roe? or quail, or squab?
Possum in NZ, if you are there, pls let me know the brand of veg glycerine you used in your cake (was it you who put it in a cake? sorry if I'm incorrect), just wondering - I would like to use a combinaion of glycerine and dates next time I make my date/pecan 'brownie' made with almond meal/flour.
I just prefer to avoid honey if I can, for different reasons.
I will look into ceviche, and I regarding digesting fish, it is more to do with my own indivual system's weakness, lack of enzymes and toxicity I think.  One day, I would like to sign up to Swami, not able to for now.  I am doing better than I was two or three years ago, so I am pleased.
thanks too all from USA, NZ and Denmark for your comments. best wishes!
Posted by: Possum, Friday, February 8, 2013, 12:55am; Reply: 13
Hi Aussielady yep it was me that used glycerine in a cake... Brand was just a local NZ one... Wasn't easy to find I will admit (or cheap) You can get bottles of glycerine from brewers shops...

When were you living in Tassie? I came from there (was born in Newcastle, lived in heaps of places, but moved to NZ from tas 10 years ago & still have family there - & Canberra)
Posted by: aussielady582, Monday, February 11, 2013, 4:50am; Reply: 14
thanks Possum, not sure yet if I will use glycerine. will answer your other question soon!
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