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BTD Forums  /  The Encyclopedia/ D'Adamo Library  /  Celiac gene: HLA-DQ2 / HLA-DQ8 homozygotes
Posted by: Glutenismyenemy, Monday, November 19, 2012, 5:43pm
Question for Dr. D'Adamo or other geneticists with knowledge of this...

Are people who test positive for the HLA-DQ2 or HLA-DQ8 homozygotes genetic marker always going to be in the Hunter genotype?

I have O- blood, and have tested positive for the HLA-DQ2 allele. I also had trace anti-endomysial antibodies 4 weeks after going gluten-free, and have lines on my fingerprints. (That fingerprint info in the book, by the way, is the coolest thing ever. I am furious that my doctors never looked for that...the clue to all that ailed me for 15+ years was right there on my hands....)

Anyway, I just read the book and have yet to do my measurements. I am tall and long (especially so for a woman) and strongly suspect I'm a Hunter. I've felt best in my life when becoming very athletically active.

Just wondering if there is a strong GenoType correlation for Hunter in the HLA-DQ2/HLA-DQ8 family. Thanks.
Posted by: Amazone I., Monday, November 19, 2012, 5:49pm; Reply: 1
can also be *explorer-related* ;) ;D.........(goofy)(whistle)

ooops sorry was impolyte...welcome onto our *sacred-boards*  :D(clap)(ok)(smarty)(dance)
Posted by: ruthiegirl, Monday, November 19, 2012, 5:55pm; Reply: 2
Only type Os can be Hunter Genotype, while the Celiac gene can occur on people of every blood type.
Posted by: Glutenismyenemy, Monday, November 19, 2012, 6:28pm; Reply: 3
*takes bow* Thanks for the warm welcome. :)

Ok, so Hunters are exclusively O

But HLA-DQ2/HLA-DQ8 gene could have ABO blood type, thereby putting them in non-Hunter genotype

Correct?
Posted by: Lloyd, Monday, November 19, 2012, 6:35pm; Reply: 4
If your ring fingers are longer than your index fingers it would make Hunter GT fairly certain.

The genes you mention are not considered by the GTD diet or by SWAMI. A practitioner could use that information to overrule or augment some of the suggested dietary changes vs. what you would otherwise register.
Posted by: Glutenismyenemy, Monday, November 19, 2012, 6:52pm; Reply: 5
Yes, ring fingers are longer than index fingers on both hands.

(For what it's worth, I also have high caffeine tolerance. I can drink a triple espresso and go to sleep.  8) ;D )

Are there any additional resources for narrowing in on specific beneficials and toxins? i.e., what are the properties / trace nutrients of the foods that fuel specific metabolic processes?

Where can we get more info on the "why" of enhance consumption and avoid altogether?
Posted by: ruthiegirl, Monday, November 19, 2012, 7:00pm; Reply: 6
Quoted from Glutenismyenemy
*takes bow* Thanks for the warm welcome. :)

Ok, so Hunters are exclusively O

But HLA-DQ2/HLA-DQ8 gene could have ABO blood type, thereby putting them in non-Hunter genotype

Correct?


Correct.

Also bear in mind that many people do poorly on gluten and/or "modern grains" even without having full-blown Celiac Disease. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure it's possible to have CD without the gene and vice versa, right?

It would be interesting to study how many people with that gene fall into what genotypes, but I don't know if that's been done yet. Many people who heal with SWAMI don't opt for further lab testing.

For example, my personalized SWAMI doesn't allow me to have wheat, spelt, barley, or oats, and rye is a "black dot." I don't consume the "avoid" grains at all (though there may be cross-contamination with spelt in my kitchen) and eat about a cookie's worth of rye once or twice a year. I don't know if I have Celiac Disease or not; I'm not about to eat gluten again just for the official diagnosis, and there's absolutely no indication for the genetic test (thus insurance won't cover it.)

From what you've  described, you definitely sound like a Hunter rather than a Gatherer or Explorer. I don't know whether or not a personalized SWAMI workup would give you a diet significantly different from what's in the book. If you can afford it, SWAMI is a wonderful tool and fine tunes the diet even further. But if you're one of those individuals who does well on one of the "book diets" then you may not need a SWAMI at all.
Posted by: Lloyd, Monday, November 19, 2012, 7:12pm; Reply: 7
Quoted from Glutenismyenemy


Are there any additional resources for narrowing in on specific beneficials and toxins? i.e., what are the properties / trace nutrients of the foods that fuel specific metabolic processes?

Where can we get more info on the "why" of enhance consumption and avoid altogether?


Some information is available on the SWAMI Pro version (reasons for toxin status). I do not know if the Xpress has that feature. Some of the reasons are based on lectins and other things besides specific nutrients.

This thread may be of interest to you: http://www.dadamo.com/cgi-bin/Blah/Blah.pl?b-GTDdiet/m-1202698596/s-new/
Posted by: Glutenismyenemy, Monday, November 19, 2012, 7:13pm; Reply: 8
Quoted from ruthiegirl


Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure it's possible to have CD without the gene and vice versa, right?



It is virtually IMPOSSIBLE to have celiac disease without the gene. There have been a handful of (very, very, very few) cases where people with full-blown autoimmune disease have tested negative for the gene, but in 95+% of all celiac cases, they have one of the alleles. See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HLA-DQ2

My GI ordered the genetic test to corroborate my anti-endomysial blood test and positive response to a gluten-free diet. My gut biopsy was negative (had been wheat-free for some time at the time of the biopsy), so the genetic test helped to confirm that celiac was in fact a possibility.

HLA-DQ2/DQ8 is also home to other autoimmune and inflammatory problems such as diabetes, rheumatoid arthritis, etc. This coincides with Hunter as well.

Posted by: Lola, Monday, November 19, 2012, 7:19pm; Reply: 9
eating all the wrong lectins makes people prone to inflammatory disorders, no worries

following your guidelines is the best way to combat inflammatory issues, while healing the gut and balancing our ecosystem....

you are in the right place and swami will be personalized to boot
Posted by: DoS, Monday, November 19, 2012, 8:43pm; Reply: 10
I would like to be tested because I'm so essential-nutrient deficient all the time. Plus there are a lot of parallels to problems.

The interesting thing is I think Celiac blood type O lose weight, Type A (warriors anyhow) gain weight as a Celiac. That is initially at least. Now my digestion is f*d up and it is a battle to be able to not feel a minor panic every moment of the day, and feel like sleep does nothing for you; a battle fought with vitamins mostly.

My father has Crohn's. My mother had IBS but now I don't know what is up?
Posted by: Glutenismyenemy, Monday, November 19, 2012, 9:52pm; Reply: 11
Quoted from DoS
I would like to be tested because I'm so essential-nutrient deficient all the time. Plus there are a lot of parallels to problems.

The interesting thing is I think Celiac blood type O lose weight, Type A (warriors anyhow) gain weight as a Celiac. That is initially at least.



As a Type O-, I gained loads of weight before my celiac discovery. I was a fit and trim 5'9", 135 pound runner, kickboxer, pilates instructor, etc who slowly spiraled into weight gain and fatigue, 10 pounds here, another 5 there, until finally I ballooned to a 225 pound mess.

Funny thing was though that I looked like a starving child with a distended belly. All my weight was in my gut. If you looked at me from the side, I looked 9 months pregnant, and was actually approached by people "oh, you must be due any moment."

It made no sense. I was going to the bathroom 5-6 times a day, sometimes more during my period, and yet I was gaining weight. I think my poor body was in starvation mode. It wasn't absorbing the nutrients it needed, so any calorie that did get ingested was packed away for safekeeping.

I had ZERO energy just before I hit bottom. I could sleep 12 hours a night and still need a nap in the afternoon the next day. I could barely keep my eyes open. I begged my doctors for a stimulant as I thought I had ADD and I got the "change your lifestyle" lecture. Oh, sure, try exercising on zero energy in your bloodstream.

A couple times I ended up in the ER with 180bpm sinus tachycardia.

Celiac is like the worst possible torturous death you could ever inflict upon a person. A little bit of life sucked out of you, slowly, daily, no hope in sight.

No one understands the hell of celiac until they've gone through it.

Get tested. If you can't tolerate wheat long enough for a gluten challenge, at least find out if you carry the gene.
Posted by: DoS, Monday, November 19, 2012, 10:01pm; Reply: 12
As a child I felt like I was starving all the time... and I gained a lot of weight. I don't have a problem absorbing carbohydrates though. It is the calcium, magnesium, B12, and iron that I don't get much from foods that even have a lot. Wheat products make it worse and constipation is always my issue. Certain forms of protein seem to pass right through, as when I pee I can smell them.

Maybe I'm not a celiac, but something doesn't work right at all with wheat. I also do really poorly with hard cheeses. Provolone actually burns inside my mouth. It seems that these things affect people differently.

An interesting thing is my version of tired means I can't sleep well. I can go around and do daily things, but it often makes me feel bad doing too much. Often I feel better when I don't do anything, or don't have to walk/bike anywhere. When I kind of got past it all once, I slept constantly, naps throughout the day, long sleeping at night. I ate some spelt bread then though?
Posted by: Glutenismyenemy, Tuesday, November 20, 2012, 4:49am; Reply: 13
The other thing to look at if you suspect these diseases (celiac, diabetes, rheumatoid arthritis, certain cancers) is who else in your family has them, or who suffered from symptoms but was never diagnosed.

For example, I have a cousin (from Dad) who has been debilatated by RA after having been a marathon runner her whole life.

My half sister (from Dad) is a beast when it comes to physical fitness; she used to be a competitive bodybuilder, and still teaches 7 aerobics classes a week approaching the age of 60. But her achilles' heel is depression. She also drinks a ton of beer. (I keep telling her to get off the gluten.)

My father I am certain was also a Hunter and died from undiagnosed celiac. He was extremely athletic also, played football, basketball, and baseball in college. In his older years, he golfed with a zero handicap and hoped to get on the Seniors PGA tour before he got so sick he couldn't walk. Like me, he blew up with weight gain in middle age, got diabetes, then wasted away to NOTHING. His legs were sticks, you could see his ribs. He couldn't even walk he was so weak. He had diarrhea upwards of 5x per day every other day for 10 years. I remember looking at his fingers as he pricked them to take his sugar reading, and I actually do remember remarking how smooth they were, no fingerprints, just lines. He had 8 heart attacks in the span of 10 years, looking back, no doubt on nutritional deficiency, and ultimately died of heart failure, with a good dose of complete dementia on top of it. Just tragic. It could have all been avoided if celiac were diagnosed.

Looking at our family, the resemblance is uncanny. My nieces and nephews from my half sisters could be my brothers and sisters we look so alike. You would never guess there's a mix of genes in there. My father's genes kicked all the other genes' expletive deleted...so we are no doubt carriers in this Hunter / celiac strength.

Another curious thing...we always thought our heritage was Northern Europe / UK / Ireland ... Dad's Mom was "shanty Irish" and Scotch, but Dad's dad was adopted. Dad and I while fair, always get super dark tan in the sun, not at all like a red-headed, blue-eyed Irish. I later found out about the northern Italian celiac problem, and the celiac epidemic in the Basque people of Spain. I'm betting our "black Irish" blood is related in there somewhere.

So, anyway, long way of saying...if you suspect something, look around your family. Their medical histories will offer clues. Mine did. We had the data, we just didn't have an informed advocate to help us interpret it.

Posted by: Lola, Tuesday, November 20, 2012, 5:37am; Reply: 14
Glutenismyenemy,

what took you so long to get here??

welcome!
you are in the right place now :)
Posted by: DoS, Tuesday, November 20, 2012, 5:59am; Reply: 15
Does your family have trouble fighting off infections? I had many as a child. Now as an adult, at this point, well I have started supplementing. I've also been dealing with over-coming infections in multiple places. (intestines, ears, sinuses, maybe more) It seems clear that these infections are not fought at all by my body otherwise (I just feel weird/bad all the time).
Posted by: Glutenismyenemy, Wednesday, November 21, 2012, 6:03am; Reply: 16
Quoted from Lola

what took you so long to get here??

welcome!
you are in the right place now :)


Thank you!! Wish I would have been given this roadmap about 10-15 years ago. Would have saved myself and my family a lot of pain and suffering.  :(  >:(

Infections for me, yes. Of the sinus variety. Loads and loads, snotty nose and fevers as a kid. Mono in 6th grade. Hives and infections in college. Tonsilectomy at age 21 after 15 months on antibiotics.

Got better after getting heavy into exercise but was still eating "wrong" foods.

The neurological / GI / reproductive cancer (ovary) prompted the latest round of medical exploration.

Posted by: Lola, Wednesday, November 21, 2012, 6:54am; Reply: 17
it is never too late! :)
Posted by: Glutenismyenemy, Friday, November 30, 2012, 4:18am; Reply: 18
I should also add that you can have gluten reactions in celiac that do not involve the gut. I am reminded of this fact this very week, as I was glutened-- actually, "avenin-ed" -- I cannot tolerate even gluten-free oats; avenin causes reactions too -- while traveling, and I now have lesions on my head and face. Dermatitis herpetiformis is the most itchy, painful, eczema- like thing that takes weeks to heal once you have an outbreak. So, if you're reading this and suspect gluten intolerance but don't have diarrhea, but instead have skin problems, get checked. The lesion can be biopsied in blister phase to look for antibodies.
Posted by: Lola, Friday, November 30, 2012, 6:15am; Reply: 19
gut fixing takes time.....
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