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BTD Forums  /  Supp Right For Your Type  /  probiotics; again (I know!)
Posted by: stephanieelisej, Tuesday, September 4, 2012, 10:43pm
This is a long thread but I'm hoping there are some gut experts on this forum !

I've had mercury poisoning / toxicity for some 20 + years now. Unfortunately, my gut bacteria is suffering BIG time.

Basically, my Lactobacillus and Bifidobacterium has been wiped out, along with a few others.

Anyway, from conferences / practitioners and friends in the naturopathic field, I've been given a few different products (~ $100 + ) in total - and just wondering if anyone has any experience with this issue. How are probiotics best taken ? Before meals, after, first thing in the morning ... ? Gut health is something that I haven't looked much into but I'm sure there are some experts here on the forms :)

Obviously I can't just throw them out and buy Polyflora O, - especially as these are practitioner dispensed products and quite expensive.

All of them contain at least 1 strain of bacteria that I'm either low in or have none detectable in my system. So of course, logic would say to take them and replace whats missing.

I've looked into POLYFLORA O for future use (once all these have been used up) however it contains Banana fruit powder, which I can see as being a potential problem, as anything banana related seems to really not agree with my sensitive explorer system....

Just incase you're wondering, theres no detectable pathogenic bacteria - just not much of anything in general.

I'm also getting Mutaflor (E.Coli Strain) from germany, which is about $200 worth, on the advice of my ND.

Any advice / thoughts would be much appreciated :)

Thanks !
Posted by: Lloyd, Tuesday, September 4, 2012, 11:08pm; Reply: 1
Take advantage of fermented foods as you are able.

You should benefit from the practitioner probiotics.
Posted by: stephanieelisej, Wednesday, September 5, 2012, 1:23am; Reply: 2
Thanks Lloyd ! I like yogurt but not only is it an avoid; but it also generally doesn't agree with me (possibly the casein) - although I'd rather that then fermented vegetables.
Posted by: ABJoe, Wednesday, September 5, 2012, 2:32am; Reply: 3
Have you been able to reduce the mercury poisoning?

If so, then using ghee, probiotics, Larch Arabinogalactin, and/or Intrinsa should help tremendously...

According to the Polyflora bottle, take them away from food.
Posted by: stephanieelisej, Wednesday, September 5, 2012, 6:32am; Reply: 4
Thanks ABJoe :) I'm going to take the probiotics first thing in the morning from now on.

Well - its hard to measure mercury levels in specific organs; and Its not easy to get it out of specific ones either !
I'm using something to bind it in the gut and another product to cross the blood brain barrier which will hopefully clear it out of my hypothalamus . . . .

I might try the Larch Arabinogalactin - I've heard about it and once again read an article on the product as it was featured in the most recent D'adamo newsletter.

I'm going to look into intrinsia as well :)
Posted by: Lola, Wednesday, September 5, 2012, 6:34am; Reply: 5
check out the online protocol index
there is a detox and other great ones
Posted by: stephanieelisej, Wednesday, September 5, 2012, 6:55am; Reply: 6
Thanks Lola :) Looking now !
Posted by: ruthiegirl, Wednesday, September 5, 2012, 2:52pm; Reply: 7
In your situation, I'd take the probiotics that were prescribed specifically for you. Dr D formulated the polyflora O to contain "the strains that most O's need but don't have." It doesn't contain strains that O's don't need, and it doesn't contain the strains that "most O's already have so don't need supplemented." The ones you've been prescribed are personalized just for you, not for your blood type in general. What do the practitioners recommend as far as taking with or without food?

Fermented vegetables are, overall, a better choice than fermented dairy for O's. However, the Genotype Diet gives some guidance as to which dairy products are OK for some O's. Type O's can either be Hunters, Gatherers, or Explorers. If you're going to eat fermented dairy, you're probably best off with quark cheese (beneficial for Gatherers, black dot for Explorers, but a complete avoid for Hunters) or at least strain off as much whey as possible from yogurt or kefir before consuming. Yogurt and kefir are "avoids" for all 3 genotypes. Fermented goat or sheep cheese is probably "less toxic" than fermented cow's milk, although all are still considered "best avoided."

Are you also treating the mercury toxicity, now that it's been diagnosed?  Make sure that the mercury treatments don't interfere with the probiotics- some herbs may prevent the probiotics from working properly when taken together.
Posted by: stephanieelisej, Wednesday, September 5, 2012, 8:36pm; Reply: 8
Thanks Ruthiegirl;

I have swami which says I can have whey protein, and a few types of cheeses + indian buffalo milk (not in this country!) but I try to avoid casein for the most part due to my high risk of breast cancer and also the negative effects of casein protein and detoxification of heavy metals.

The Polyflora O undoubtably has the right strains of probiotics but it is the prebiotics (banana fruit powder) which I can see as being potentially problematic for my gut.

I'm going to take the probiotics first up on an empty stomach in the morning before everything else (I'm on about 50 pills / powders/ sprays / tinctures every day)

I do really well with pure whey protein, however, its not fermented.

We're treating the mercury poisoning but after so long undiagnosed, unfortunately, its not easy to deal with. Competent toxicologists are hard to come by in this country. (Australia)

I wonder if my gut flora was better on whey protein, as it has immunomodulating effects (could be via gut???) Hrmm, you've got me thinking now !!!! :) Thanks again !
Posted by: Lloyd, Wednesday, September 5, 2012, 10:16pm; Reply: 9
For the Lactobacillus rhamnosus portion of the Poly O you could get from another source such as:



http://www.culturelle.com/files/culturelle/pdf/Culturelle_supplement_facts_Digestive30.pdf


The prebiotic is chicory root inulin.

There are probably other options as well.
Posted by: stephanieelisej, Thursday, September 6, 2012, 9:46am; Reply: 10
Great idea Lloyd !

I'll look into it ! :)
Posted by: Andrea AWsec, Thursday, September 6, 2012, 11:04am; Reply: 11
probably not much of the banana left in the probiotic for O's call them and ask. Not sure I would spend $200 on some such from the ND, before I worked on the O probiotic and some live cell, and intrinsia.

Other thing is fecal transplant way cheaper-- :B


Cilantro-- helps detoxify the body.  http://www.naturalnews.com/027434_cilantro_natural_detox.html


One of the ND's that attends the conferences is from Australia-- might want to find him, Lola might remember his name.
Posted by: stephanieelisej, Thursday, September 6, 2012, 9:15pm; Reply: 12
Thanks Andrea, I admit I was sceptical about Mutaflor (they 'grow' the strain of E.Coli and then export it around the world) but If I want to see this ND its my 'job' as the patient to listen + try what she suggests; regardless of how I would treat myself.

She uses the BTD with her patients however, in my case, even SWAMI hasn't been of much success/use to me due to the extent of toxic damage caused to various organs, the hypothalamus etc.

I've been using a Cilantro tincture in an electrolyte solution and haven't seen or felt much improvement; unfortunately (because its expensive!!!!)

So far she has me on this:

http://www.biomedica.com.au/files//new_articles_to_ad_to_website/sbpro_article.pdf

& an adrenal rebuilder from Dr. Wilsons Adrenal fatigue products.
Posted by: ABJoe, Thursday, September 6, 2012, 9:38pm; Reply: 13
Quoted from stephanieelisej
I'm using something to bind it in the gut and another product to cross the blood brain barrier which will hopefully clear it out of my hypothalamus...

I used Modified Citrus Pectin to bind metal toxins out of the body prior to Dr. D. using it in Trehalose Complex in conjunction with the two sugars to stimulate cellular house-cleaning.

This is the MCP I used:  http://www.econeugenics.com

Dr. D.'s Trehalose Complex should be available from the Au distributor...  Here is the information about it:  http://www.4yourtype.com/prodinfo.asp?number=NP067
Posted by: Christopher1, Thursday, September 6, 2012, 10:10pm; Reply: 14
Quoted from Lloyd
For the Lactobacillus rhamnosus portion of the Poly O you could get from another source such as:



http://www.culturelle.com/files/culturelle/pdf/Culturelle_supplement_facts_Digestive30.pdf


The prebiotic is chicory root inulin.

There are probably other options as well.


Thanks, Lloyd. Does the Lactobacillus GG include rhamnosus?
Posted by: Lloyd, Thursday, September 6, 2012, 10:17pm; Reply: 15
Quoted from Christopher1


Thanks, Lloyd. Does the Lactobacillus GG include rhamnosus?


It is a specific strain of rhamnosus alone.

Posted by: Christopher1, Friday, September 7, 2012, 12:41am; Reply: 16
Quoted from Lloyd


It is a specific strain of rhamnosus alone.



Thank you!
Posted by: Lola, Friday, September 7, 2012, 1:07am; Reply: 17
Quoted Text
How are probiotics best taken ? Before meals, after, first thing in the morning ... ?


together with live cell, take one each, followed by a glass of water, first thing in the morning
Posted by: stephanieelisej, Friday, September 7, 2012, 2:15am; Reply: 18
Thanks ABjoe, I'll definitely get some ! I couldn't access the link but MCP has lots of potential from what i've read on other websites. Great idea. :)
Posted by: Lola, Friday, September 7, 2012, 3:05am; Reply: 19
this is all you need actually

Old man smell and Trehalose--

http://orgprepdaily.wordpress.com/category/lit-highlights/
Posted by: stephanieelisej, Friday, September 7, 2012, 4:45am; Reply: 20
Very funny ! I shall pass this on to a few Dr's + ND's over here ! Thanks Lola ! :)
Posted by: Averno, Friday, September 7, 2012, 10:56am; Reply: 21
Quoted from Lola
this is all you need actually

Old man smell and Trehalose--

http://orgprepdaily.wordpress.com/category/lit-highlights/


I take mine in lemon water. Perhaps in time I'll become my own room freshener.  :)
Posted by: Cristina, Friday, September 7, 2012, 11:34am; Reply: 22
Quoted from Andrea AWsec


One of the ND's that attends the conferences is from Australia-- might want to find him, Lola might remember his name.


I am interested in this bit of info ... where can I get more details/   ;D :)

Posted by: Andrea AWsec, Friday, September 7, 2012, 11:40am; Reply: 23
http://www.dadamo.com/ifhi/csvlist.pl?order_by=Last_Name&order=abc


List of all practitioners.
Posted by: Lola, Tuesday, September 11, 2012, 6:15am; Reply: 24
naturopath in Footscray,Vic. Annette Maxwell,does supply the basics to her patients.
Info at Intelligent Nutrition          info at intelligentnutrition.net.au

Jason Mallia who is  Master of IfHI Sydney
http://www.integratedhealth.com.au
Jason Mallia  IMD ND B.HSc Dr Sc
Posted by: Andrea AWsec, Tuesday, September 11, 2012, 1:18pm; Reply: 25
Jason is the one I sat with  at IFHI.
Posted by: Saskia, Tuesday, September 11, 2012, 5:04pm; Reply: 26
I found this on the mercola.com site and pass it on in case you find it useful: 'Fermented foods are some of the best chelators available. The beneficial bacteria in these foods are very potent detoxifiers, capable of drawing out a wide range of toxins and heavy metals. According to Dr. McBride, the GAPS Nutritional Protocol restores your own detoxification system in about 90 percent of people, and the fermented/cultured foods are instrumental in this self-healing process.

    "The cell wall [of the bacteria] have chelators; molecules that grab hold of mercury, lead, aluminum, arsenate, and anything else toxic," Dr. McBride explains. "They hold them until they're removed through stool."

And you don't need to consume huge amounts either. Caroline recommends eating about a quarter to a half a cup of fermented vegetables, or cultured food such as raw yoghurt, per day. Kombucha, a fermented drink, is another great addition to your diet. The key is variety. The greater the variety of fermented and cultured foods you include in your diet, the better, as each food will inoculate your gut with a variety of different microorganisms.'
Posted by: stephanieelisej, Wednesday, September 12, 2012, 10:38am; Reply: 27
Thank you so much Saskia - That is very helpful information ! :)
Posted by: Saskia, Friday, September 14, 2012, 7:34pm; Reply: 28
Again by chance, I have come across something I find interesting about detoxing from heavy metals, and everything else, and it's simple and cheap: charcoal.  But it's more effective (and cheaper) as powder, so don't buy capsules.  In the French article I read, it says it makes it easy to take if you put it in yoghurt.  There is plenty of stuff on the internet if you put in 'charcoal for heavy metals', for example, but if anybody would like it, I can send them the article in French.
Posted by: ruthiegirl, Friday, September 14, 2012, 7:48pm; Reply: 29
You need to be careful with any chelation protocol that you don't leach out the minerals your body needs along with the dangerous minerals you want removed.
Posted by: Saskia, Friday, September 14, 2012, 8:56pm; Reply: 30
Re charcoal: the article states that many experiments were done to see if charcoal leeched nutrients from the body over the long term, and it was found that it didn't, and that urine pH remains constant. However, it can inhibit contraceptives or other remedies, so should take it, say, in the morning and the other things at midday.  Anyway, it doesn't act as a chelator, binding chemically, but has a physical action, to do with its porous structure trappipng the poisons - if I understand rightly.
Posted by: Lola, Friday, September 14, 2012, 9:16pm; Reply: 31
start making your cilantro pesto, periodically :)
Posted by: stephanieelisej, Sunday, September 16, 2012, 7:11am; Reply: 32
Thanks for the information Saskia; I'll bring it up with my ND and see what she knows about the charcoal; It does sound safe and useful in my particular situation.
Posted by: Lola, Sunday, September 16, 2012, 2:51pm; Reply: 33
stephanie,
listen to Dr D talk about autophagy and trehalose

http://www.generativemedicine.org/3west.shtml

toward the end, he mentions how people trying to detox heavy metals and other have been greatly helped by using trehalose

listen often......if over your head, the more you listen the more it sticks :)
Posted by: stephanieelisej, Monday, September 17, 2012, 10:19am; Reply: 34
Thanks Lola - I listened to this a while ago when it came out.

He mentions it a bit - I'll see if we can get the product stocked at the institute where my father works.

We've been considering adding trehalose to the mix of powders I'm already on -

micro silica; ascorbic acid; acetyl-carnitine etc.
Posted by: ABJoe, Monday, September 17, 2012, 3:13pm; Reply: 35
Quoted from stephanieelisej
We've been considering adding trehalose to the mix of powders I'm already on - micro silica; ascorbic acid; acetyl-carnitine etc.

Quite often ascorbic acid is made from corn in the US...  It is good to check the source...
Posted by: Drea, Monday, September 17, 2012, 3:45pm; Reply: 36
On the other hand...one of my NAP supps has ascorbic acid as an ingredient (sorry, I'm not near the bottles at the moment)...
Posted by: stephanieelisej, Tuesday, September 18, 2012, 4:51am; Reply: 37
Good point ABjoe; luckily I don't have a problem with corn; or many foods really.

I would take sodium ascorbate however it usually has sodium bicarbonate in it as the source of sodium; which I need to avoid due to low hydrochloric acid levels in the gut (from what I understand; sodium bicarbonate neutralises this acid)

I also avoid calcium ascorbate; as calcium (both dietary but especially supplementary) is contraindicated in my situation.
Posted by: Lola, Tuesday, September 18, 2012, 6:00am; Reply: 38
Quoted Text
micro silica; ascorbic acid; acetyl-carnitine etc.


why would you be on that one???
ascorbic acid is a corn derivative

if you believe it has Vit C content, try acerola cherry or better yet
get Dr D s proberry.....potent stuff!!


you need to balance your ecosystem and following your guidelines will help a lot in that regard low hydrochloric acid levels in the gut.....

where did you get a secretor test done?
can you give us the results of the phenotype test? was it the lewis antigen test, through blood or a saliva test from dpn?
or do you just suppose you are a secretor?
Posted by: stephanieelisej, Tuesday, September 18, 2012, 9:28am; Reply: 39
Oh I'm definitely a secretor;
I've only ever had mercury related health problems; nothing else. I don't even get 'sick' (colds or the flu etc) !!!

I had the lewis (a-b+) test and also sent my salivary secretor test off to the states with Dr D's secretor test from the DPN store in NZ. Both came back indicating secretor. I do well on carbs, grains etc. Definitely not a nonnie !

I don't do well on fruit derived powders; or fruit/fruit juices etc.

I take explorer supplements, such as milk thistle; curcurmin; etc. and BTO supplements like bladderwrack

And cilantro tincture; when I have it (we order from Dietrich Klingheart)


From what I understand; Mercury acts as a proton pump inhibitor; and therefore; nothing gets digested. Some other heavy metals have the same effect; such as cadmium.

I've had swami and been on the BTD/GTD for years; with no real improvement; I guess because my diet was never really the issue in the first place....




Posted by: Lola, Tuesday, September 18, 2012, 3:53pm; Reply: 40
Quoted Text
I don't do well on fruit derived powders; or fruit/fruit juices etc.


then avoid the ascorbic or citric acid content in anything you purchase
Posted by: stephanieelisej, Tuesday, September 18, 2012, 10:47pm; Reply: 41
Quoted from Lola


then avoid the ascorbic or citric acid content in anything you purchase


Oh the problem with fruits for me personally is the high potassium/water content; relative to sodium .... It makes all fruit juices totally unsuitable as well; and it is impracticable to balance juices, fruit etc. out with salt. Potassium is also de-emphasised on my swami.


I'm unable to retain sodium; which means potassium rich foods must be avoided/limited; including in supplement form.
Posted by: stephanieelisej, Wednesday, September 26, 2012, 3:40am; Reply: 42
Update:

I've just received my trehalose, mutaflor (e.coli strain) and larch arabinogalactan. I've started the Trehalose, and so far, so good. No reactions or anything abnormal.

Have doubled the SB PRO (saccharomyces boulardii) and will finish the bottle soon .... Haven't noticed any improvements so far.

Thanks everyone for your suggestions ! :)
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