Print Topic - Archive

BTD Forums  /  The GenoType Diet  /  How best to respond? *
Posted by: aisling, Tuesday, August 14, 2012, 1:36pm
My brother posted this on my wall today.  How can I best respond to this with the most accurate information?

I think its important to note that D'Adamo is an ND (Doctor of Naturopathy) rather than a medical doctor. This is not to say that what he is proposing isn't beneficial to people, it just doesn't seem to be science from what I've read. Also, as a person who does genomics research professionally, genotypes refer to hard-coded differences in the genetic code (DNA) of an individual, while phenotypes are the expressed characteristics (leye color, jawline) that can be generated from a genotype. Differences in genotype are not always observable in phenotypes, such as in silent mutations. I'm now stepping down from my soap box.


Posted by: Lloyd, Tuesday, August 14, 2012, 1:46pm; Reply: 1
If he is willing to do enough reading he will see the scientific underpinnings.

Obviously, there are things that are theoretical would benefit from further studies and validation, but the whole is well constructed and sound. It is impossible to put together a diet that will satisfy someone who is looking for ultimate proof, the data is not there for anyone.

The genotype thing is just a name, it is not intended as he portrays it. There is a post by Dr. D on the site somewhere that explains.

There are also a couple threads that go more into how the diet is constructed, and so on. Keep looking or maybe others will link/post.
Posted by: ruthiegirl, Tuesday, August 14, 2012, 1:53pm; Reply: 2
I would send him a link to the Generative Medicine facebook group. It's run by Dr D and is very technical; most of the time I don't understand what I'm reading there.

If he posted that scientific question there, it would spark a friendly debate with others "on the same level" and he'd get his questions answered.

You need to be a member to invite your friends to the group, since it's a "closed" facebook group. If you're not yet a member yourself, PM me and I can friend you, then add you, and then you can add your brother.
Posted by: C_Sharp, Tuesday, August 14, 2012, 2:12pm; Reply: 3
Some links related to the science underlying the diets:

http://www.generativemedicine.org/

http://www.dadamo.com/science_writings.htm

http://www.drpeterjdadamo.com/wiki/wiki.pl?action=browse;oldid=ABH_Antigens;id=Antigen%2c_ABH

http://n-equals-one.com/blogs/

http://www.generativemedicine.org/textbook.shtml
Posted by: Averno, Tuesday, August 14, 2012, 4:57pm; Reply: 4
With all due respect, aisling, your brother's words sound typical of the conventional medicine community. The same people that brought us the current xenobiotic approach to pharmacological medicine, which in my estimation will go down in history as a hideous misadventure.

A friend said to me this weekend "No wheat? That's ridiculous! Everyone eats wheat!" All I could think of to say in reply was "Have you not noticed that we're all sick, and that conventional medicine doesn't make us healthy? It only shifts us into different illnesses".

I have lost 45 lbs and never felt better than on this diet. My primary care physician recently looked at my now-improved-to-normal vital statistics and announced that the diet connection was "Unrelatable, probably due to eliminating junk food".

Well, in a manner of speaking, exactly!

The conventional food supply is not safe. Neither is the conventional approach to medicating it's attendant maladies.
Posted by: Lloyd, Tuesday, August 14, 2012, 6:04pm; Reply: 5
Quoted from Averno


I have lost 45 lbs and never felt better than on this diet. My primary care physician recently looked at my now-improved-to-normal vital statistics and announced that the diet connection was "Unrelatable, probably due to eliminating junk food".


There is a saying that comes in many forms and colors by many people, essentially:

"what you know is more dangerous than what you don't know"

As someone who has suffered at times from modern medicine, and I have noted both here and on the blog, I still appreciate that modern medicine is the best currently available treatment for many things.
Posted by: Averno, Tuesday, August 14, 2012, 7:13pm; Reply: 6
Lloyd, I agree, to be perfectly honest. And I do appreciate the point you've made of the danger in one's being more curious than wise. It's that semantically vague term "wellness" that makes it all so compelling...

My concern is that modern medicine is so often behind the curve regarding nutrition--especially where it intersects with disease prevention. In terms of conveyance, at least. "Eat whole grains and low-fat foods" isn't enough information on that front.


Posted by: ruthiegirl, Tuesday, August 14, 2012, 7:32pm; Reply: 7
For some of us, eating whole grains and low-fat is counter-productive!
Posted by: D.L., Tuesday, August 14, 2012, 11:10pm; Reply: 8
Along the same lines, when I told my heart doctor (a heart surgeon) that I was studying everything I could find about the heart, high blood pressure, and high cholesterol, his response was "oh, no!"
Posted by: Goldie, Tuesday, August 14, 2012, 11:26pm; Reply: 9
Respecting your brothers opinion would be best served if you just make great healing progress and stay healthy and well.  Let him have his opinion, everyone can have one, pro pr con.. It does not matter much.  What matters is how the person comes here, as a sick person getting to understand and then feel better is one way, the other is being well enough needing no help for now, and letting them just wait to see how we fare in 25 years and how they are faring..

The sacrifices WE make are big, we give up much, willingly, no one could make us do it if it was not voluntary..  Forcing great changes does not work.. even in AA 97 % fail.. (even if millions succeed) .. most still find compliance difficult.. Respecting each other is most important, arguing will never get us any where.. I have tried it for 19 years.. takes to much effort, and ruins a nice day..  

BUT I would like to have any nay sayer show me scientific 'products' by scientists where food is concerned and ask them to show their doctors education in the Science of food stuffs.. I mean why not turn the tables.. friendly like. and let it go, later..
Posted by: grey rabbit, Wednesday, August 15, 2012, 1:08am; Reply: 10
As long as your brother is not trying to force you to change, I would leave him alone with his opinions - he has a right to them, go on about your business and get healthy ;D ;D ;D You will not succeed in changing his mind, he will have to change it himself.

As far as conventional medicine goes, let's not throw out the baby with the bath water
Quoted Text
... I still appreciate that modern medicine is the best currently available treatment for many things.
I agree.
Posted by: Chloe, Wednesday, August 15, 2012, 1:18am; Reply: 11
Quoted from D.L.
Along the same lines, when I told my heart doctor (a heart surgeon) that I was studying everything I could find about the heart, high blood pressure, and high cholesterol, his response was "oh, no!"


LOL

Posted by: Dr. D, Thursday, August 16, 2012, 2:21pm; Reply: 12
Quoted Text
I think its important to note that D'Adamo is an ND (Doctor of Naturopathy) rather than a medical doctor.


True. Not sure just how important.


Quoted Text
This is not to say that what he is proposing isn't beneficial to people, it just doesn't seem to be science from what I've read.


Depends on what he has read.

Quoted Text
Also, as a person who does genomics research professionally, genotypes refer to hard-coded differences in the genetic code (DNA) of an individual, while phenotypes are the expressed characteristics (leye color, jawline) that can be generated from a genotype.


True, but the term 'GenoType' (note use of capitals) here is being used as a device for the popular imagination. The book itself is quite clear that it really refers to 'epigenotypes' a cross between genotype and phenotype. The publisher was offered the term 'Epigenotypes' but declined to use it.


Quoted Text

Differences in genotype are not always observable in phenotypes, such as in silent mutations.


True, although he does not seem to know we are talking about epigenetics not deterministic genetics.  


Quoted Text
I'm now stepping down from my soap box.


Seems like a nice guy.
Posted by: Dr. D, Thursday, August 16, 2012, 2:44pm; Reply: 13
Hey, why not tell you brother to boot up FireFox and mosey  over to DataPunk Quodlibet? He might get a kick out of it..

http://www.datapunk.net/quodlibet/quodlibet.pl
Posted by: C_Sharp, Thursday, August 16, 2012, 2:59pm; Reply: 14
Quoted from aisling
My brother posted this on my wall today.  How can I best respond to this with the most accurate information?

I think its important to note that D'Adamo is an ND (Doctor of Naturopathy) rather than a medical doctor.   ... it just doesn't seem to be science from what I've read. ...


You have some MDs that are at the top of their field developing innovative treatments, delivering excellent care, providing training and mentoring to new Physicians. You also have some MDs that are marginal at best.

This is also true of NDs. Some are at the top of their field developing innovative treatments, delivering excellent care, providing training and mentoring to new Naturopathic Physicians. There are also some NDs that are marginal at best.

Dr. D'Adamo is recognized as one of the top Naturopathic Physicians in the world that has really furthered the profession and developed new treatments approaches to naturopathic medicine.

The American Association of Naturopathic Physicians named him Physician of the Year in 1990.

He is currently in charge of an academic program in generative medicine at the University of Bridgeport.

In addition to his work at University of Bridgeport. He has served as an Adjunct Clinical Professor at the Southwest College of Naturopathic Medicine and at the National College of Naturopathic Medicine.

Yes, there are difference in approach between allopathic medicine and naturopathic medicine. Hopefully, both keep the needs of patients in mind and conduct research in a way that allows treatments to be verified and reproduced by other practitioners in the field.

Dr. D'Adamo has been one of the leading developers and proponents of the Field of Generative Medicine.  This new field is different than traditional naturopathic and allopathic medicine. It combines new discoveries in genetics, biochemistry, and medicine with innovations in the field of informatics to tailor treatment to the needs of a particular patients and their unique biochemical makeup.

American Association of Naturopathic Physicians recently recognized the great potential of this new approach and their House of Delegates just approved the Institute of Naturopathic Generative Medicine as a professional affilate of the organization.
Posted by: Goldie, Thursday, August 16, 2012, 3:31pm; Reply: 15
Wow and interesting!...  how now, so many other discoveries are made along the blood groups for cancer heart and other issues.. we learned this in the last Century, and now they come along and finally take notice..

I think it takes a NEW GENERATION that is open to newer ideas.. old fuddy daddies just can not fill their brains any longer and so the reaction is OH NO.. not another new thing..

I sort of REACT the same.. if you give me no time to get used to a new idea I kick back saying no.. then 5 minutes later I might change my mind, only to have boxed ME into a corner..   ;D

NOW, if Dr D could fix my taste buds to allow me to have a life without wanting this or that, so clearly not good for me.. wow that would be a discovery..   the ultimate .. !
Posted by: Goldie, Thursday, August 16, 2012, 3:35pm; Reply: 16
Quoted Text
You have some MDs that are at the top of their field developing innovative treatments, delivering excellent care, providing training and mentoring to new Physicians. You also have some MDs that are marginal at best.

This is also true of NDs. Some are at the top of their field developing innovative treatments, delivering excellent care, providing training and mentoring to new Naturopathic Physicians. There are also some NDs that are marginal at best.

Dr. D'Adamo is recognized as one of the top Naturopathic Physicians in the world that has really furthered the profession and developed new treatments approaches to naturopathic medicine.

The American Association of Naturopathic Physicians named him Physician of the Year in 1990.

He is currently in charge of an academic program in generative medicine at the University of Bridgeport.

In addition to his work at University of Bridgeport. He has served as an Adjunct Clinical Professor at the Southwest College of Naturopathic Medicine and at the National College of Naturopathic Medicine.

Yes, there are difference in approach between allopathic medicine and naturopathic medicine. Hopefully, both keep the needs of patients in mind and conduct research in a way that allows treatments to be verified and reproduced by other practitioners in the field.

Dr. D'Adamo has been one of the leading developers and proponents of the Field of Generative Medicine.  This new field is different than traditional naturopathic and allopathic medicine. It combines new discoveries in genetics, biochemistry, and medicine with innovations in the field of informatics to tailor treatment to the needs of a particular patients and their unique biochemical makeup.

American Association of Naturopathic Physicians recently recognized the great potential of this new approach and their House of Delegates just approved the creation of the Institute of Naturopathic Generative Medicine.


Would this be a good reply for all these sort of inquirer's?   Might make for quick 'shut off' of ongoing blah blah blah.. (I will email this to me.. to keep it and use it when needed.)    
Posted by: Spring, Thursday, August 16, 2012, 3:35pm; Reply: 17
Quoted Text
Quoted Text
I'm now stepping down from my soap box.

Quoted Text
Seems like a nice guy.


I liked that he mentioned the soap box too.
Posted by: Averno, Thursday, August 16, 2012, 4:46pm; Reply: 18
I'm encouraged by how reasoned, balanced, and constructive these responses are.
Posted by: Victoria, Thursday, August 16, 2012, 5:02pm; Reply: 19
Quoted from Averno
I'm encouraged by how reasoned, balanced, and constructive these responses are.


I agree!   :D
Posted by: aisling, Thursday, August 16, 2012, 5:14pm; Reply: 20
Thanks everyone!  My brother is a good guy, and we enjoy debating each other.  He has my best interests at heart.  I posted a status update on my FB page about how I was finally putting my health back as a priority in my life and referenced Dr. D'Adamo's work, that's how this whole thread got started.

I think, as mentioned above, that the best course of action is to give him the information and continue to feel good by following the diet and exercise guidelines.  He will see as I go how much healthier I am, and my husband and children, and then as they say the proof is in the pudding!  Make that compliant pudding, however!
Posted by: ruthiegirl, Thursday, August 16, 2012, 5:24pm; Reply: 21
The proof is in the chia seed pudding? ;)

Were you able to get him into the Generative Medicine group on facebook?
Posted by: aisling, Thursday, August 16, 2012, 6:29pm; Reply: 22
Quoted from ruthiegirl
The proof is in the chia seed pudding? ;)

Were you able to get him into the Generative Medicine group on facebook?




Working on it!    ;D
Posted by: DoS, Thursday, August 16, 2012, 6:34pm; Reply: 23
Let me say an analogy here.

If Dr. D'Adamo's AWD vehicle stops delivering power to the rear wheels because the transfer case that splits power from the engine between the front and rear wheels, he would fix the transfer case; maybe re-adjust it. From then on potentially it may never go bad. Where as an MD's approach would be to attach a new engine to the rear wheels even though it is misplaced and problematic within the car, and inferior to the originals fine operation.

Naturopathy is a way of treatment, not a measure of knowledge. I don't know any MD's that can claim making permanent changes in correcting pathology. That is unless they use gene therapy; which often works for some and kills others.


Posted by: yaeli, Thursday, August 16, 2012, 6:45pm; Reply: 24
Quoted from Averno
A friend said to me this weekend "No wheat? That's ridiculous! Everyone eats wheat!"
I am sure that many reacted with the same logic to the Ten Commandments.

We received them 5 thousands years ago, and look how do we look.

Posted by: 815 (Guest), Thursday, August 16, 2012, 7:25pm; Reply: 25
Quoted from DoS

Naturopathy is a way of treatment, not a measure of knowledge. I don't know any MD's that can claim making permanent changes in correcting pathology.


I sure as shootin' won't go to see an Oncologist! They are so mediaevil on curing cancer. Like killing a fly with a sledge hammer!  >:(  
Posted by: ruthiegirl, Thursday, August 16, 2012, 7:33pm; Reply: 26
If I was diagnosed with cancer (G-d forbid!) I would see an oncologist for an evaluation and make an appointment with one of the ND's at the Williamsburg office, even if it meant going further into debt to pay for it. I'd have the doctors work together, not dismiss conventional medical treatment altogether.
Posted by: yaeli, Thursday, August 16, 2012, 8:46pm; Reply: 27
Medical doctors are trained to participate in clinical trials and researches, to initiate them, and to study scientific journals, but for the great part the scope of their studies is not so wide. Many medical doctors hardly have a clue regarding biochemistry, genetics, epigenetics, nutrition. Medical schools mainly provide professionals who will save lives when acute medical conditions occur. Preventive medicine is not their main issue. Building a healthy society is not their occupation. MD's are no more scientists than ND's.  
Posted by: DoS, Thursday, August 16, 2012, 11:06pm; Reply: 28
Trained to, but who has time when you are ego tripping the RN's? ;D

Honestly there are a lot of MD's that work in emergency rooms that I would prefer to be present in the event of a lot of different emergencies, than I would have Dr. D'Adamo himself present. Unless there is even more I don't know about him.  
Posted by: Lola, Friday, August 17, 2012, 6:20am; Reply: 29
have him look at this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vgHyBYenBso&feature=player_embedded
Blood Type and Heart Disease
Posted by: Averno, Friday, August 17, 2012, 12:59pm; Reply: 30
Thank you Lola! I'll be sending this link to a lot of people.
Posted by: paul clucas, Sunday, August 19, 2012, 6:19pm; Reply: 31
Once the concept of epigenetics is understood, it is the idea of a genetic researcher who is studying the expression of a luxury genes (approx 70% of all human genes) and does not know about epigenetic modification of the genes is the unscientific and scarey idea!

It seems to me that the vast majority anthropology enthusiasts cannot take on board the concept of epigenentics.  Much like health enthusiasts, it rocks their conceptual world too much for comfort.

A little knowledge is a dangerous thing; the only antidote is a more complete undstanding of the whole.  As in the psychotherapist joke, however, the "lightbulb" has to want to change.

I love that video, Eric!  (clap)
Posted by: yaeli, Monday, August 20, 2012, 12:19am; Reply: 32
Quoted from paul clucas
Once the concept of epigenetics is understood, it is the idea of a genetic researcher who is studying the expression of a luxury genes (approx 70% of all human genes) and does not know about epigenetic modification of the genes is the unscientific and scarey idea!
Hear, hear!

Posted by: Patty H, Tuesday, August 21, 2012, 1:29am; Reply: 33
Quoted from aisling
Thanks everyone!  My brother is a good guy, and we enjoy debating each other.  He has my best interests at heart.  I posted a status update on my FB page about how I was finally putting my health back as a priority in my life and referenced Dr. D'Adamo's work, that's how this whole thread got started.

I think, as mentioned above, that the best course of action is to give him the information and continue to feel good by following the diet and exercise guidelines.  He will see as I go how much healthier I am, and my husband and children, and then as they say the proof is in the pudding!  Make that compliant pudding, however!


aisling, my siblings are really wonderful people too, but their ideas about health, diet and nutrition are ingrained and they believe them just as strongly as I believe my ideas about health, diet and nutrition.  I have learned to keep quiet on most things but the most basic of advice.  I need to note that all three of my siblings have had bypass surgery for heart disease.  They think I am over the top when it comes to what i eat, etc.  My hope is that I can be the one member of my family (with the exception of my mother) not to develop heart disease.  Of course if I do not, they will all assume that I take after our mother and that my dietary and supplement intervention have nothing to do with it.  You cannot change a person's mind unless their mind is open to change.  Just keep doing what you are doing, be yourself and your brother may find that you are more healthy and active  than he is able to be.  He may not see or acknowledge this.  I love my siblings but I cannot change them or their ingrained beliefs.
Posted by: grey rabbit, Tuesday, August 21, 2012, 1:01pm; Reply: 34
Eric, that was a very well done video.
Posted by: 815 (Guest), Tuesday, August 21, 2012, 3:15pm; Reply: 35
Quoted from ruthiegirl
If I was diagnosed with cancer (G-d forbid!) I would see an oncologist for an evaluation and make an appointment with one of the ND's at the Williamsburg office, even if it meant going further into debt to pay for it. I'd have the doctors work together, not dismiss conventional medical treatment altogether.


Nope. Not me. I'd only go see an ND.  IF Dr. D , say, told me he was 100% sure that chemo would cure me..only then would I consider it. But I would never get radiation.
Posted by: grey rabbit, Tuesday, August 21, 2012, 5:43pm; Reply: 36
Quoted from 815


Nope. Not me. I'd only go see an ND.  IF Dr. D , say, told me he was 100% sure that chemo would cure me..only then would I consider it. But I would never get radiation.


Well, there's cancer and then there's cancer. There's leukemia and then there's glioblastoma.   The first I'd do chemo, the second I'd update my will and go sit on the beach.
Posted by: Easy E, Tuesday, August 21, 2012, 8:18pm; Reply: 37
Doctors fix what is broke.  They give basic prevention tips.  It is up to consumers to take care of themselves, and they do so by learning about things like the genotype diet, blood type diet to live the healthiest lives they can.

Doctors are also concerned about people taking any advice they read off the internet, because people have a tendency to drop medications abruptly and harm themselves without supervision.

I believe most doctors truly care for the well being of their patients though.
Posted by: ruthiegirl, Tuesday, August 21, 2012, 10:52pm; Reply: 38
Quoted from Easy E
I believe most doctors truly care for the well being of their patients though.


That's been my experience as well. I often disagree with them about appropriate medical treatment (using drugs as a last resort vs using them before trying alternatives) and I've met a handful of doctors who were arrogant jerks. But I've also met a handful of arrogant jerks in other professions as well.

Thinking back on my own medical history, I can think of exactly two doctors who were rude and unhelpful to me. One did me actual harm, and the other just wasted my time. Meanwhile, I've worked with dozens of wonderful, caring doctors.
Posted by: grey rabbit, Wednesday, August 22, 2012, 12:11am; Reply: 39
Quoted from ruthiegirl
I've met a handful of doctors who were arrogant jerks. But I've also met a handful of arrogant jerks in other professions as well.


So true!
Posted by: Goldie, Wednesday, August 22, 2012, 6:05am; Reply: 40
;D  good one!    yaeli...  you said it all..  ;D
Print page generated: Saturday, November 29, 2014, 2:32am