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Posted by: paul clucas, Tuesday, July 24, 2012, 5:46pm
This spring I have been unable to hammer more than half a dozen roofing nails with out having to take a few minutes rest before continuting.  My arms feel devoid of energy until I have rested enough.

This summer I have lost a few of the pounds that I have gained, taken Trehalose Complex, and have exercised daily in a way that doesn't drain me of energy.  My edema is worse, but I have seen that before in the summer.  I "lost weight" from my face this spring, but I can't get my weight to drop much no matter how strictly I eat on my diet.

Is this ATP related?  Is it my SIBO?  Should I try to walk it off?  Is there something I can set on Swami Xpress that will better my diet for weight loss?  Is a practitioner visit neccesary to confidently address this particular energy limitation?  I know that I cannot keep on my present course and have the nagging feeling that I am missing something obvious.

There are many household projects that I don't like putting aside for this lack of physical energy..
Posted by: DoS, Tuesday, July 24, 2012, 6:36pm; Reply: 1
How good is your digestion?

If you want energy try some magnesium malate and D-Ribose

What is your diet like currently? Are you up on iron and B12? How is your sleep?
Posted by: PCUK-Positive, Tuesday, July 24, 2012, 6:42pm; Reply: 2
sounds like a circulation problem of some sort to me.
Posted by: DoS, Tuesday, July 24, 2012, 6:53pm; Reply: 3
I'm wondering about enough protein actually; whether it goes in the mouth or not may not be the only factor. Insulin reception and circulation is clearly partially impaired, but why is another factor.
Posted by: paul clucas, Tuesday, July 24, 2012, 7:28pm; Reply: 4
My water intake and sleep patterns are much worse since winter, and I am trying to roll that stone back.  

I am supplementing with 500 mg of methyl B12 sublingually last thing at night, and have added a magnesium pill recently.  Spray form is going to be the next type I try.  Taking an epsom salt bath about every week.

I am always giving into eating more protein that is strictly permitted on my Swami, so I am more concerned about protein overload.  The blood circulation around my kidney seems to be extremely poor as the get cold quickly.  As strange as it seems lying on an electric blanket when they are cold seems to be not at all uncomfortable - even when the rest of me is quite hot.

I take Deflect and Polyflora, 1 each just before the B12.

Since taking the Trehalose my mood, muscle tone, and concentration seem to be better.  My energy problems do not seem to have been help by it, however.
Posted by: Mother, Tuesday, July 24, 2012, 7:34pm; Reply: 5
I was lacking energy this summer due to hugh temps and humidity as well as sweating. I started adding some sea salt to water in the am and before bed and it helped immediately. If you don't notice something good almost immediately, it's probably not that but it did make a huge difference with me
Posted by: PCUK-Positive, Tuesday, July 24, 2012, 7:35pm; Reply: 6
Well, as I'm sure you know, as an explorer less meat, as a nonnie less meat.

Amber has settled for only one protein meal a day for the moment, seems to work well with her.

she is mega compliant now, and that seems to suit her too.

are you drinking and eating mainly warm drinks and warm meals. and have you considered a kidney cleanse followed by a liver cleans of some sort. it goes without saying to not drink or eat anything sweet for a while and perhaps reduce the size of your meals. not eating protein after 6 pm, getting to bed by 10 and getting up by 6 am and getting fresh air and sunlight. the best of all forms of advice perhaps.
Posted by: Lloyd, Tuesday, July 24, 2012, 7:39pm; Reply: 7
You might see how foskolii does for you if you think it's ATP related.
Posted by: Mother, Tuesday, July 24, 2012, 7:49pm; Reply: 8
Also, if you are eating enough protein, could it be too high in saturated fat? The biggest things that zap my energy are too much saturated fat, too much OR too little protein and too much fat in general and I do well on about 65% fat but not much over that and certainly not alot of saturated. Especially if you are low carb, you may want to try the sodium thing. Maybe you need electrolytes
Posted by: DoS, Tuesday, July 24, 2012, 8:29pm; Reply: 9
Magnesium malate is not just magnesium. Not at all. The Malic acid is part of energy production, and D-Ribose is a more direct cellular energy.

Add some ginger and lemon juice to your diet for better circulation. Make sure you are getting some B6 too.

How is your omega 3 intake? I would double your B12 to 1000mg.
Posted by: paul clucas, Tuesday, July 24, 2012, 10:24pm; Reply: 10
Thank you all for your thoughts.

I do need to get back with my salted water consumption, and have already started that today.  My energy slump started in the spring, so temperature is not a major factor.

My protein consumption is 1/2 lb beef or turkey ground (stirfry) Salmon or sometimes sardines for my second stirfry 1/2 cup of soaked beans with an egg all per day.  If I get less protein than that I find it difficult to keep away from the avoid food that my wife and children eat.

Some days I skip the proten for a meal and have rice with ghee instead.

Fresh squeezed lemon water in the morning  and usually 4 quarts of ginger/yerba mate tea with at least 4 quarts of green tea (somtimes with astralagus).  I usually drink my tea starting after the end of a meal to space things out.
Posted by: Mother, Tuesday, July 24, 2012, 11:42pm; Reply: 11
I would up your protein for sure. That's about what I eat as a female at 5'8 and 120#'s. I have recently realized that  I need about 70-75g a day. It's kinda hard to figure out but this too is something you should notice quickly if you aren't eating enough, within a day or so. I am very active and exercise. I don't want to overeat it but undereating it leads to fatigue. I'm not sure how big you are or active but I would think you are just at your minimum either way. I am also low carb, not sure about you. Try adding another 1/3 # of animal or fish and see how that feels. It shouldn't take longer than 3 days to make a difference. I'd try that before supplements but that's just me
Posted by: Goldie, Tuesday, July 24, 2012, 11:45pm; Reply: 12
look at your PM..
Posted by: Joy, Tuesday, July 24, 2012, 11:49pm; Reply: 13
I'm taking a megadose of  liquid 5,000mcg methyl B12.  I realize that it sounds over the top but it is a dropperful and I know that it helps me as recommended.  I also continue to start the day with acai with guarana smoothie packs I get at WF.  I melt one down with water and add spirulina and chorophyll (gotta take care of that gut!)  

I just got some Ubiquinol also recommended for giving energy.  I took one before dinner and now I feel very "even keeled".  

Hope you come up with the right combination that works for you!

Joy
Posted by: karen, Wednesday, July 25, 2012, 1:07am; Reply: 14
Quoted from paul clucas

Fresh squeezed lemon water in the morning  and usually 4 quarts of ginger/yerba mate tea with at least 4 quarts of green tea (somtimes with astralagus).  I usually drink my tea starting after the end of a meal to space things out.


Was drinking tea after your meal a new routine for you? If you have always done that then this probably isn't relevant but I have trouble with fatigue after drinking tea and I think it's the tannins binding iron and causing anemia. I did recently read that adding lemon or milk to tea can counter tannins effect on iron. Other things that can help is taking vitamin C and also drink tea between meals.

The other side of it could be you are accumulating too much iron from the teas and have iron overload. Too much or too little iron both can cause fatigue. I hope you can figure it all out.



Posted by: paul clucas, Wednesday, July 25, 2012, 1:19am; Reply: 15
Yerba Mate and Ginger have tannins?

Green tea should be ok, unless the tannins can build to troublesome levels by the bags being left too long in the pot.  My tea is my unsweetened dessert replacement.

I would certainly like to increase my meat consumption - along with my veg,

I wish I had not passed up the opportunity to get a free hair metal trace analysis.
Posted by: karen, Wednesday, July 25, 2012, 1:44am; Reply: 16
Most herbs and teas are high in tannins. I think rooibos tea is one of the rare ones that is low in tannins.

Well the easiest way to find out if teas are a problem is to omit them for a while. I know they were a nice treat for you, but if you gain your energy back it would be worth it.

But you would still have to find out if it was the tannins binding iron and leaving you anemic or the possibility that tannins weren't an issue for you but just the extra iron content in tea leading to iron overload.  But aren't explorers prone to anemia? My bet would be on the tannins.

Posted by: AKArtlover, Wednesday, July 25, 2012, 3:26am; Reply: 17
This Dr/author had a fabulous explanation of ATP and energy and big life changing light bulbs came on so much so that I ordered a copy of the show for my father in law (Your Health with Dr. Richard Becker) and a copy of the book and the supplements. FABULOUS!!! Also has an understanding and protocol for chronic fatigue and fibro....

http://www.amazon.com/The-Sinatra-Solution-Metabolic-Cardiology/dp/1591202167/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1343186208&sr=8-1&keywords=steven+sinatra

I have no idea if this is related to you, but you said the magic ATP word. Sunshine also was very helpful for me at a time of low energy as were the proper minerals and calciums.

The first day that you put out more than you take in is the first day of illness (paraphrase) -- Carey Reams

:) :K)(book2)
Posted by: yaeli, Wednesday, July 25, 2012, 4:37am; Reply: 18
A tiny tip, try to steam your fish and veggies, then drizzle EVOO over them, and if you like also lemon juice and garlic.

Drinking right after the meal is not a good idea, because it disturbs digestion and you miss the point.  :)
Posted by: yaeli, Wednesday, July 25, 2012, 4:46am; Reply: 19
Have you tried the Explorer's trio?
Posted by: yaeli, Wednesday, July 25, 2012, 5:08am; Reply: 20
This is a link to Dragon Herbs Catalogue and Literature. They prepare wonderful combinations of herbs targeted to support many energy issues.  I am very grateful for the great support I found in my hard times taking daily their "Ten Complete Supertonic".  Victoria wrote about them a couple of years ago, I tried, and have been ordering from them ever since.  Please browse and it may well be that you find one for yourself.
Posted by: PCUK-Positive, Wednesday, July 25, 2012, 10:00am; Reply: 21
Quoted from paul clucas
Thank you all for your thoughts.

I do need to get back with my salted water consumption, and have already started that today.  My energy slump started in the spring, so temperature is not a major factor.

My protein consumption is 1/2 lb beef or turkey ground (stirfry) Salmon or sometimes sardines for my second stirfry 1/2 cup of soaked beans with an egg all per day.  If I get less protein than that I find it difficult to keep away from the avoid food that my wife and children eat.

Some days I skip the proten for a meal and have rice with ghee instead.

Fresh squeezed lemon water in the morning  and usually 4 quarts of ginger/yerba mate tea with at least 4 quarts of green tea (somtimes with astralagus).  I usually drink my tea starting after the end of a meal to space things out.




okay so freshly squeezed lemon will dilute your blood by something like 30 % i think, 4 quarts of green tea isn't that like nearly a gallon of green tea - your supposed to have 3 cups aren't you. and isn't astalagus an antibiotic as such, why do you need that with green tea, sounds like hard work to me, and drinking just after eating is not for me.

I would advise that you drink just plain filtered water in the morning at room temperature or hotter. one glass, then the next glass with a pinch of sea salt and a squeeze of lemon, like a half lemon max.

have 3 cups of green tea a day either 30 mins before you meal or 2 hours after. save your kidneys ;)

maybe try it for 1 week and I'm also not sure about the 1/2 pound of meat especially minced, that's the worst bits of the animal usually even if organic. try leaner cuts and use half as much. increase the vegetables and keep grain to a minimum and make sure you soak your rice and keep it to basmati for a week also .

i still find it hard to imagine drinking a gallon of green tea. you must have a massive stomach to hold that in of a knackered kidney or two filtering it all out. not energy left for anything I would imagine .
Posted by: yaeli, Wednesday, July 25, 2012, 10:36am; Reply: 22
Quoted from PCUK-Positive
i still find it hard to imagine drinking a gallon of green tea. you must have a massive stomach to hold that in of a knackered kidney or two filtering it all out. not energy left for anything I would imagine .
Yes yes! (forgot about it!) Excess of water aggravates the kidneys and slows them down.  :( (dissappointed)

Years back I went to an ND who insisted that drinking too much is dangerous and can lead to renal failure. He urged me to have all my water intake from vegetables only - which is impractical, but clearly illustrates the idea.
Posted by: Dianne, Wednesday, July 25, 2012, 11:40am; Reply: 23
Lamb nourishes the kidney chi. :)
Posted by: Amazone I., Wednesday, July 25, 2012, 11:43am; Reply: 24
ooooops Yaeli... I wouldn't be able to stand such a situation... I think I'm nearby 4-5 liters water and green tea (&gingerslices) daily.... hmmmm....(think)(smarty)(ondrugs)
Posted by: weekender, Wednesday, July 25, 2012, 12:01pm; Reply: 25
Paul, how is your thyroid function? What about your adrenal function? You can try taking your temperature first thing in the morning after 4 hours continuous sleep (minimum) to check that it's above 36.5
If it's not, then you should think about taking care of your thyroid and adrenal glands. Feeling tired, weak muscles, can't lose weight, cold back - my first thoughts would be to make sure nothing suspicious is behind it all. I don't know how easy/cheap it is for you to get them done, but a blood test for thyroid function and DHEA-S, and saliva test for cortisol levels will let you know if you're dealing with something more than the need to refine what you're eating. Make sure to have a proper holistic doctor look at the results, or compare them with what is on http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/. You can also take the quiz here http://www.adrenalfatigue.org/take-the-adrenal-fatigue-quiz to see how many other symptoms you might have that fit that picture.

In addition to the above, I would ditch the electric blanket. The good ol' hot water bottle, or heat pack are much better. Electric blankets can muck up your internal temperature regulation and energy production. You'll be better off in the long run without it.

I hope you start to feel better soon!!
Posted by: yaeli, Wednesday, July 25, 2012, 1:00pm; Reply: 26
Quoted from Amazone I.
ooooops Yaeli... I wouldn't be able to stand such a situation... I think I'm nearby 4-5 liters water and green tea (&gingerslices) daily.... hmmmm....(think)(smarty)(ondrugs)
Of course not!  :D But it's a true story.

Posted by: yaeli, Wednesday, July 25, 2012, 1:09pm; Reply: 27
Go for compliant herbs and spices that have a warming quality (e.g., ginger).
Posted by: Victoria, Wednesday, July 25, 2012, 3:56pm; Reply: 28
I would not try and take away your beloved teas - I love, love, love my daily green teas too - but I think Yaeli is correct about too much fluid weakening the kidneys.  Lowered adrenal function goes hand in hand with that and cold kidneys fits the picture.  And, it is a lot of caffeine which can drain the adrenals also.  Can you just cut down some?
Posted by: Victoria, Wednesday, July 25, 2012, 5:20pm; Reply: 29
Quoted from PCUK-Positive

. . isn't astalagus an antibiotic as such.


Astragalus isn't an antibiotic.  It's an immune modulator and a tonic.
http://www.dragonherbs.com/prodinfo.asp?number=502
Posted by: DoS, Wednesday, July 25, 2012, 6:52pm; Reply: 30
I would try 1 cup of green tea a day, for your adrenal's sake. Increase protein, maybe take HCL + pepsin with it if you don't feel like you deal with it fast enough. Easy to digest protein, like a shake, would be a good idea to combine with some pineapple and detox berries. That is also a good way to stay hydrated.

Posted by: PCUK-Positive, Wednesday, July 25, 2012, 9:55pm; Reply: 31
Quoted from Victoria


Astragalus isn't an antibiotic.  It's an immune modulator and a tonic.
http://www.dragonherbs.com/prodinfo.asp?number=502


I quote "Astragalus- Early laboratory studies indicate that the herb might work as an antibiotic and might improve sperm motility. Astragalus might cause dilation of blood vessels and increase the ability of the heart to pump blood, which could be a useful effect for a variety of different heart conditions.

another quote

"How It Works
Astragalus has antiviral and antibiotic properties helpful for respiratory infections. Astragalus can widen the blood vessels and increase blood flow, to help lower blood pressure and eliminate excess water weight. It appears to restore T-cell ( a type of white blood cell) counts to relatively normal ranges in some patients with low levels due to cancer or other diseases."
Posted by: SophiaVictoria, Friday, July 27, 2012, 5:32am; Reply: 32
It might not be 100% compliant, but have you tried Powerade or Gatorade? I find the electrolyte sports drinks give me an amazing energy boost when I am feeling totally blah. Just a thought.  8)

Posted by: PCUK-Positive, Friday, July 27, 2012, 9:50am; Reply: 33
Hi SF, those poweraides may work but the consequences are not good. there are best if you are a professional sports person perhaps but they don't have a good life expectancy.
Posted by: PCUK-Positive, Friday, July 27, 2012, 10:56am; Reply: 34
was just reading another old thread with a link to this page

http://proliberty.com/observer/20040711.htm

also http://www.billycraig.co.uk/1/category/lemon/1.html

the kindle copy of the book is cheap her in the uk so I bought it. perhaps a cheap copy is available near you.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Back-to-Eden-ebook/dp/B003VD1JIK/ref=sr_1_3?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1343386516&sr=1-3
Posted by: PCUK-Positive, Friday, July 27, 2012, 10:59am; Reply: 35
http://proliberty.com/observer/
Posted by: SophiaVictoria, Friday, July 27, 2012, 11:49am; Reply: 36
Quoted from PCUK-Positive
Hi SF, those poweraides may work but the consequences are not good. there are best if you are a professional sports person perhaps but they don't have a good life expectancy.


Where did you hear this about the life expectancy thing? I can't imagine a better way to replenish the electrolytes....  ??)

Posted by: PCUK-Positive, Friday, July 27, 2012, 12:38pm; Reply: 37
It was on a tv programme recently in the uk. to clarify it was saying that athletes don't live very long not just beacsue of powade and the like but thatthe ingredients where absolutely NOT healthy. and in fact useless to people who do not work out in a big big way. sweetie.

ingredients Water, glucose, fructose,
citric acid, mineral salts (sodium chloride, magnesium chloride, calcium chloride, potassium phosphate), flavourings, acidity regulator (potassium citrate), stabilisers (acacia gum, glycerol esters of wood rosins), sweeteners (sucralose, acesulfame K), colour (brilliant blue).

anther flavour Water, glucose, fructose, citric acid, mineral salts (sodium chloride, magnesium chloride, calcium chloride, potassium phosphate), acidity regulator (potassium citrate), flavourings, stabilisers (acacia gum, glycerol esters of wood rosins), sweeteners (sucralose, acesulfame K), colour (E122).

Water, glucose, fructose, citric acid, mineral salts (sodium chloride, magnesium chloride, calcium chloride, potassium phosphate), acidity regulator (potassium citrate), stabilisers (acacia gum, glycerol esters of wood rosins), antioxidant (ascorbic acid), sweeteners (sucralose, acesulfame K), flavourings, colour (mixed carotenes).
Posted by: Goldie, Friday, July 27, 2012, 4:12pm; Reply: 38
http://www.healthyjuicecentral.info/juice-nutrition/ gives you a quick overview of many better drinks.. in juices- vegetables are king..
Posted by: yaeli, Saturday, July 28, 2012, 10:20am; Reply: 39
Paul, I take medicinal mushrooms extracts regularly.

Browsing today my regular supplier's brochure, I came across info on Cordyceps, which may interest you.
Posted by: Amazone I., Saturday, July 28, 2012, 1:08pm; Reply: 40
and astragalus also is a so called *telomer-prolonger...or enhancer* ??) ;) ;D....(smarty)(whistle)(hehe)
Posted by: paul clucas, Monday, July 30, 2012, 2:07am; Reply: 41
Quoted from yaeli
Have you tried the Explorer's trio?
Yes it did all right for me, but I moved onto other things and did not notice any lack from not having it.
Posted by: paul clucas, Monday, July 30, 2012, 2:12am; Reply: 42
Quoted from karen


Was drinking tea after your meal a new routine for you? If you have always done that then this probably isn't relevant but I have trouble with fatigue after drinking tea and I think it's the tannins binding iron and causing anemia. I did recently read that adding lemon or milk to tea can counter tannins effect on iron. Other things that can help is taking vitamin C and also drink tea between meals.

The other side of it could be you are accumulating too much iron from the teas and have iron overload. Too much or too little iron both can cause fatigue. I hope you can figure it all out.
No the tea isn't new for me, and it usualy is too hot to take more than a few sips in the first hour after the meal.

At this ponit skipping tea for a week is looking like a good options - I will have salted water instead.
Posted by: ruthiegirl, Monday, July 30, 2012, 11:26pm; Reply: 43
Quoted from SophiaVictoria
I can't imagine a better way to replenish the electrolytes....  ??)

The last time I gave blood, I prepared "homemade sports drink" ahead of time and brought it with me. I put some sea salt, agave, and lemon juice into filtered water- I think about a teaspoon of agave and half a teaspoon of salt in a quart of water. Perhaps somebody who's done this more recently can verify the proportions.
Posted by: PCUK-Positive, Tuesday, July 31, 2012, 1:25pm; Reply: 44
Everyone should read this


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-2181290/Having-seen-evidence-I-dont-touch-fizzy-drinks-Frankly-theyre-evil.html

Posted by: karen, Wednesday, August 1, 2012, 12:30am; Reply: 45
Quoted from paul clucas
No the tea isn't new for me, and it usualy is too hot to take more than a few sips in the first hour after the meal.

At this ponit skipping tea for a week is looking like a good options - I will have salted water instead.



I hope skipping the tea will lead to some answers for you. Lightly salted water sounds like a good replacement.
Posted by: paul clucas, Monday, August 6, 2012, 9:21pm; Reply: 46
Quoted from Amazone I.
and astragalus also is a so called *telomer-prolonger...or enhancer* ??) ;) ;D....(smarty)(whistle)(hehe)
From reading the Encyclopedia, astragalus seems to be the swiss army knife of herbal supplements.  A good all-rounder.

After not having had tea for a week, I have concluded that drinking tea of any benificent kind is not a major factor in my kidney/circulation issue.  I will now be happy to drink my tea and lose the few pounds that I gained from the snack food I usually avoid by drinking tea.

I need to take more long walks.


Posted by: Marc121, Tuesday, August 7, 2012, 6:14am; Reply: 47
I have experience that kind of thing. But in different situation.
In doing my laundry I have to sit down while doing it.
Then for numerous time I have observed that whenever I sit for a long time I feel my energy depleting fast. And question my self but how? I have done the best routine about btd today.
(I do my laundry once a week so it takes about 4 hours or so)

Then while surfing at the internet I saw that "sitting" slows down burning of calorie. And at that instant it suddenly connects.
When I`m on my laboratory experiment just sitting down for 3 hours not standing up.
Makes me really sleepy.

The next laboratory experiment I tried Standing up all the time. And viola it puts a big change.

Then I tried it on doing my laundry standing up. It actually works I don`t feel not    energetic. :)

Well I`m a type O. I don`t know for AB, B  and A which A`s do more on relaxing activities.

And me as an individual. Which would put some uncertainty.
Solutions like this enlighten you. :)
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