Print Topic - Archive

BTD Forums  /  Eat Right 4 Your Type  /  Are all "avoids" created equal?
Posted by: ibhipru, Wednesday, July 11, 2012, 6:59pm
In the process of sorting out my beneficials, neutrals and avoids, I noted that some simply said "avoid" while others had specific warnings.  What is the difference between the two?  It almost seems as if the naked "AVOID" is an opinion rather than something based on science.  A friend who has followed this diet for years, ignores the naked "AVOIDS" and only eliminates those with stated warnings. He says he is doing just fine using that modified approach.
Posted by: Chloe, Wednesday, July 11, 2012, 7:31pm; Reply: 1
The most important foods you can eat are your beneficial foods....The more you can focus on your beneficials, the sooner you'll feel well.

As for avoids...they are simply foods that will make your body hold onto toxicity...Whether there is such a thing as a "naked" avoid, I've never heard that term before and I've followed this way of eating for 20+ years.

If I had to give you any advice, it would be to focus on eating your most beneficial foods. They are healing to your gut, your immune system and this will eventually get you focusing away from toxins...Eventually you won't feel well on toxins..and will probably want to avoid them entirely. Dr D has always said to focus on healing foods.

I personally think all avoids are toxins and should be treated the same.  Most of us who have
been eating this way for a long time rarely eat toxins if we can avoid them.  Even black dots are supposed to be eaten rarely.  People with health issues would really want to avoid toxins.
Posted by: Andrea AWsec, Wednesday, July 11, 2012, 9:05pm; Reply: 2
Depends on how sick you are the sicker you are the more you need to pay attention. If your friend is not that sick or is a secretor he will be able to " get away"  with more avoids in his diet. One day it all catches up to us. Some at 50 some at 60 some later.

Some people are billy goats others are doves.

Looking for reasons they are avoids try the typebase.  http://www.dadamo.com/typebase4/typeindexer.htm

Posted by: C_Sharp, Wednesday, July 11, 2012, 9:46pm; Reply: 3
Quoted from ibhipru
In the process of sorting out my beneficials, neutrals and avoids, I noted that some simply said "avoid" while others had specific warnings.  What is the difference between the two?  It almost seems as if the naked "AVOID" is an opinion rather than something based on science.  A friend who has followed this diet for years, ignores the naked "AVOIDS" and only eliminates those with stated warnings. He says he is doing just fine using that modified approach.


Since whether a food item has comments is somewhat random in typebase you might want to consider other approaches to ranking avoids in the BTD:

---->Consider whether avoids in the BTD diet depending whether they are tier 1 or tier 2 avoids. These values are provided in this book:

http://www.4yourtype.com/prodinfo.asp?number=ED003




---->If you are treating a specific health condition consider  whether a food is a full avoid or a neutral allowed infrequently.

This information is presented in these books:

http://www.4yourtype.com/products.asp?dept=19



Posted by: Lola, Wednesday, July 11, 2012, 9:46pm; Reply: 4
Individualized is what Dr D is designing for each one of us

More information on SWAMI diets can be found at:
http://www.4yourtype.com/swamixp_video.asp
http://www.dadamo.com/media/swami.htm
http://www.dadamo.com/clinic/swamigenotype.htm
http://www.dadamo.com/media/gtd.htm
find out how food rates for you individually, given your personal variables.
Posted by: ruthiegirl, Wednesday, July 11, 2012, 9:54pm; Reply: 5
No, avoids are not all created equal. But which avoids are the worst will vary from person to person.

For example, wheat is absolutely awful for me. I can get sick for a month if I eat it. I can even get sick from TOUCHING wheat, although that only lasts a few days. No other "avoid" affects me that way.

Meanwhile, my oldest daughter has no obvious reactions to wheat, but potatoes mess up her skin and cause sores in her mouth (because the skin in her mouth is weakened and then her braces create sores.) In some sort of emergency, I'd eat foods with potato ingredients before I'd eat wheat. She carefully avoids potatoes, but "cheats" on wheat more often than she should.
Posted by: chud, Thursday, July 12, 2012, 3:47pm; Reply: 6
You are right that avoids are not all created equal.
You will just have to find out which ones are the worst for you.

For me as an AB, it's chicken that is my top avoid; I get terrible heartburn if I eat it, and no other avoid on the AB list affects me as much.
Posted by: Mrs T O+, Thursday, July 12, 2012, 7:01pm; Reply: 7
I seem to find that eating different avoids once rather than the same one a few times is less harmful (outwardly, at least).
For example, if I ate the same avoid 3 times in a week, I would start to feel it rather than 3 different avoids the same week.   Does that make sense?
Posted by: gulfcoastguy, Thursday, July 12, 2012, 10:08pm; Reply: 8
No not all avoids are the same. Chicken can give B's strokes and corn just does plain nasty things to our metabolism.
Posted by: san j, Friday, July 13, 2012, 5:41am; Reply: 9
Quoted from gulfcoastguy
Chicken can give B's strokes .


But it usually doesn't.

Please direct us to the evidence that the ingestion of chicken causes a stroke in individuals with bloodtype B. I think it would be good to have that handy. Almost all B's in the world are eating chicken, so I'd expect to see proof that a large proportion of them are suffering stroke, moreso than those of other types, and that the stroke is directly linked to the ingestion of the chicken (since the other types, all over the world, are eating chicken, too). Thanks.  :)

Posted by: prunella, Wednesday, July 18, 2012, 4:36pm; Reply: 10
Hello to all!

I am new to this forum and have not yet introduced myself.  I have been unknowingly following BTD for about a year. I am O-, recently ID'd by swami as 40% GT2.  Secretor status is still a mystery.  :)  I will test for that, but first need to adapt a bit more to the GT diet, as I eat very little meat and no poultry.


Thanks for addressing the question I had been trying to formulate! Essentially: are all avoids created equal?
I will continue to experiment, as ruthie suggests.  I have hopes that a small amount of soy will not condemn me to misery.

BTW, is there a part of the forum for newbies to introduce themselves?  I may have missed it.
Posted by: NewHampshireGirl, Wednesday, July 18, 2012, 6:15pm; Reply: 11
The way I remember it is that a B is susceptible to a certain kind of stroke from eating chicken.

I don't know if I'm susceptible so I'm simply being cautious and eliminate eating chicken altogether.
Posted by: chud, Wednesday, July 18, 2012, 7:43pm; Reply: 12
I tend to agree with NewHampshireGirl and gulfcoastguy.
I believe that chicken contributes to strokes, though I have no proof.  
It is a really nasty avoid for B's and AB's.  
Dr D says that chicken causes agglutination in the blood for us, which would make sense that it could lead to stroke.  
Since stroke runs on both sides of my family, my plan is to avoid it like the plague.  It gives me terrible heartburn anyway, so I don't miss it.

Posted by: gulfcoastguy, Wednesday, July 18, 2012, 8:49pm; Reply: 13
I believe that I read it on both the Eat Right for Your Type book and the Live Right for Your Type book. I don't remember it being mentioned in the GTD book but "out of an abundance of caution" I'll treat it the same. I decided a long time ago that I was going to have to take somethings on faith.
Posted by: san j, Wednesday, July 18, 2012, 9:07pm; Reply: 14
Quoted from san j


But it usually doesn't.

Please direct us to the evidence that the ingestion of chicken causes a stroke in individuals with bloodtype B. I think it would be good to have that handy. Almost all B's in the world are eating chicken, so I'd expect to see proof that a large proportion of them are suffering stroke, moreso than those of other types, and that the stroke is directly linked to the ingestion of the chicken (since the other types, all over the world, are eating chicken, too). Thanks.  :)



I asked for evidence. A reference. What I was given were statements of "faith" in one's own "belief".

I think it behooves us to use language in such a way as to say only what we mean, and to mean only what we know, qualifying our statements in some responsible way. "Taking on faith" that what almost all Bs of the world eat without a consequent stroke DOES "cause strokes" is the kind of Belief that renders Dr. D'Adamo's work impossible for your listeners/readers to take seriously. Chicken-eating Asians are not dropping from strokes at some alarming rate, in spite of your "belief". If they were, an investigation of this phenomenon would be definitely called for.

I would like people to look into the work of Dr. D'Adamo. I would like them to consider their blood type, factoring it into their health management programs. I would not like them to walk away finding my "beliefs" inexplicable and wacky. "Chicken causes strokes" is a serious statement. But "Chicken has been proved to be associated with pathological blood clots in type B individuals" (if indeed proved) would be a more responsible and credible alternative, both in presenting the diet to prospects and in conversing with newbies and fellow adherents.
IMO.


EDIT/PS.
I was just thinking, "If Peter D'Adamo himself were to say to me 'Chicken Causes Stroke in Type B', I would similarly ask him for evidence for such a flat statement."
I turned to his books, owning them all as I do.
I found a reference, in Eat Right 4 Your Type, to a clinical case of his, in which the elderly patient had a lifelong diet consisting of chicken with buckwheat twice a day, plus corn and "avoid" beans. Dr. D'Adamo writes, "The lectins in foods such as chicken, buckwheat, beans, and corn...were causing the cells of his blood to agglutinate, and that was probably a major factor in his stroke."

Apparently Dr. D'Adamo has followers with greater "faith" than he does that "Chicken Causes Strokes". He seems to believe that its lectins combined with other lectins and ingested daily into old age were "probably" a "factor" in this single patient's stroke.
I have looked at his later books (Live Right 4 Your Type, Cardiovascular Disease: Fight it with the Blood Type Diet, and the foods index in CBTE) finding only in the second of those books reference to the possibility of fat metabolism being affected by lectins found in chicken, and the fact that it is a methionine-rich food, methionine perhaps being related to higher homocysteine "in some individuals".
Wow. That's still a far cry from "Chicken Causes Stroke". And why "stroke" only? Are you unaware that homocysteine and fat metabolism are implicated in atherosclerosis in general, most of which does not eventuate in full-blown stroke?

If Peter D'Adamo is not -to my knowledge- on record stating it, why do you all "believe" in it. What are you "taking on faith"? Your own belief! ::)

Okay. But don't call that sort of legalism "The BTD". Call it your own personal belief, of which Dr. D'Adamo's work is (as he says) "probably" a "factor".  ;)

Posted by: Spring, Wednesday, July 18, 2012, 11:06pm; Reply: 15
I thought it was arrhythmia that chicken caused in B's. I have a friend who is on the diet and if they eat chicken they will have arrhythmia. It makes them feel terrible besides. I can relate to that because it makes me feel awful too!
Posted by: Spring, Wednesday, July 18, 2012, 11:09pm; Reply: 16
And the lectins in chicken are only the beginning of the bad stuff concerning chicken.  ::)
Posted by: Spring, Wednesday, July 18, 2012, 11:17pm; Reply: 17
Dr. D. suggests that A-types are more susceptible to heart problems than others. I have another friend who is now a nurse practitioner with an advanced degree who used to work as a nurse in the heart unit at a major hospital. One night she decided to see just how many of the folks in there were A-types. (She was familiar with Dr. D.'s diets.) There were multiple dozens of patients in there and all of them were A-types except two O-types! So I tend to take Dr. D.'s "suggestions" seriously!! I "seriously" don't want serious heart problems!  ;D
Posted by: NewHampshireGirl, Wednesday, July 18, 2012, 11:43pm; Reply: 18
I understand the need to verify.  I looked up Bs and chicken on the internet approx. 10 to 13 years ago and found a scientific study on this topic that corroborated the fact that stroke in B blood type can indeed be caused by chicken.   There are probably more studies to be found but I don't have the inclination to search further in 2012.  I know that Dr. D. does plenty of research and he is privy to more studies than I know how to find.

San J, why don't you do your own research, if you have the time.  Perhaps you will find answers that will satisfy you.  It's too bad I didn't print out what I found back then but I was only trying to corroborate what I was reading in Dr. D's first two books.  I was just satisfying myself that the blood type diet as spelled out by Dr. D'Adamo was the right approach.
Posted by: san j, Thursday, July 19, 2012, 12:37am; Reply: 19
Quoted from Spring
Dr. D. suggests that A-types are more susceptible to heart problems than others. I have another friend who is now a nurse practitioner with an advanced degree who used to work as a nurse in the heart unit at a major hospital. One night she decided to see just how many of the folks in there were A-types. (She was familiar with Dr. D.'s diets.) There were multiple dozens of patients in there and all of them were A-types except two O-types! So I tend to take Dr. D.'s "suggestions" seriously!! I "seriously" don't want serious heart problems!  ;D


This is not a mere suggestion of Dr. D'Adamo's. There is evidence with respect to Blood Type A and cardiovascular risk. You "tend to take Dr. D's 'suggestions' seriously" because there is scientific evidence (that your friend was able to anecdotally corroborate one night at work re: patients currently being treated there).

But to lead a B person about to eat a piece of chicken to believe that this act could land him/her in the hospital with a stroke... is something else, and I'm asking for evidence of such a notion. Absent that, at least be sure Dr. D'Adamo is on record saying that eating chicken causes Bs to have strokes. I'm asking you to tell me where he's written that, and no one has come up with it. A simple and (thank you NH girl -"I understand the need to verify.") understandable request.

The fact is, people are parroting this here as if it were Common Knowledge, readily accessible to all who have read his books. And I think that's irresponsible. Someone's got to advocate for the newbie arriving here and wondering about this stuff, reading these quasi-factoids, logging-off and saying to her 93-year-old B grandma who's eaten chicken all her life, "They're wacko." If they call Dr. D'Adamo that (and some do  :-/) when he DOES provide evidence, then how are you "selling" his work, by citing your "beliefs" as if they were gospel chapter and verse?

In the interest of a better website, more credibly reflecting the work of a bona fide scientist: Qualify your statements. Dr. D'Adamo certainly does!  ;)

Posted by: Spring, Thursday, July 19, 2012, 12:55am; Reply: 20
As far as I'm concerned, chicken doesn't have a leg to stand on in regard to being something worthwhile to eat to make one healthy. Yes, we could survive a few decades on it probably, many of us have, but I know now that it would make me miserable, and I know others who have the same problem with it that are not my blood type. I didn't even need Dr. D. to tell me that I shouldn't eat the stuff anymore. I had already stopped eating it before the GENO diet came out because I felt exhausted all the time.

Doctors tell people who become diabetic in their last years to stop eating a whole world of foods. So it isn't as if that is anything new. My DFIL was in that situation. It was a horrible balancing act to try to make his last days a little enjoyable by having him eat some of the things he loved and being terrified that he would go into a diabetic coma. He died with brain cancer. My DMIL was very wise in the way she handled it, and it wasn't altogether by the doctor's orders.
Posted by: Spring, Thursday, July 19, 2012, 1:28am; Reply: 21
http://www.dadamo.com/cgi-bin/Blah/Blah.pl?m-1317327325/
Replies #8 and #9 are interesting about chicken. And #14.
Posted by: san j, Thursday, July 19, 2012, 1:53am; Reply: 22
Chicken is a black dot for Nomads.  ;)
Posted by: gulfcoastguy, Thursday, July 19, 2012, 3:34am; Reply: 23
My interpretation of black dot is something that if it can't be avoided is okay once in a blue moon. Say no more than once a month. As I said that is my interpretation, opinions vary.
Posted by: san j, Thursday, July 19, 2012, 3:59am; Reply: 24
Quoted from gulfcoastguy
My interpretation of black dot is something that if it can't be avoided is okay once in a blue moon. Say no more than once a month. As I said that is my interpretation, opinions vary.


I believe that the "once a month or so" idea is or approximates Dr. D'Adamo's intent. I don't know about the "if it can't be avoided", however. Anchovy would be, for instance, another black dot and, like most black dots, is not difficult to avoid! But there are people who choose not to avoid them, and the black dot says, "That's cool." i.e., it's more negotiable.
On the GTD, the Avoids are to be avoided.  :)

Posted by: chud, Thursday, July 19, 2012, 3:54pm; Reply: 25
Quoted from san j


"Chicken causes strokes" is a serious statement. But "Chicken has been proved to be associated with pathological blood clots in type B individuals" (if indeed proved) would be a more responsible and credible alternative...


Well most strokes are clotting strokes (ischemic), so I think you just answered your own question.  

If you have a problem with people saying "chicken causes strokes" rather than "chicken can lead to conditions that cause stroke in some blood types", well ok...whatever; I can see your point, but this is a discussion forum, not a peer-reviewed medical journal.  All of us are going to share our experiences based on our reactions to certain foods.
Posted by: ruthiegirl, Thursday, July 19, 2012, 6:59pm; Reply: 26
It's clear to me that most lectins cause subtle, not obvious, health problems. Keep eating lots of lectins, over time, and health problems can develop. Some people are strong enough or lucky enough to never develop health problems in spite of a lectin-rich diet. If it was something as obvious as most people having strokes after eating one chicken nugget, then chicken would be considered "poison" and not "food." Even the most lectin-rich foods are better than starvation!

Most people can eat a meal containing chicken and have no obvious reactions to it, even if subtle damage is occurring inside. A lot of the damage caused by lectins is  considered "what happens when we grow older" and not something preventable via diet.
Posted by: san j, Thursday, July 19, 2012, 7:49pm; Reply: 27
Quoted from chud


Well most strokes are clotting strokes (ischemic), so I think you just answered your own question.  

If you have a problem with people saying "chicken causes strokes" rather than "chicken can lead to conditions that cause stroke in some blood types", well ok...whatever; I can see your point, but this is a discussion forum, not a peer-reviewed medical journal.  All of us are going to share our experiences based on our reactions to certain foods.


Fine with me, luv, but then don't question "why people find the BTD wacko" or start threads here called "So hard to convince people to try the BTD", as is running now, concurrent with this one. If we want them to come to this forum to learn what Dr. D'Adamo says and doesn't say, we should refrain from extrapolating upon his findings to saying such things, calling "stroke" "our reactions to certain foods", such as chicken. Instant log-off, IMO. And I wouldn't blame them.

Posted by: chud, Thursday, July 19, 2012, 8:31pm; Reply: 28

Well said ruthiegirl.

Quoted from ruthiegirl
It's clear to me that most lectins cause subtle, not obvious, health problems. Keep eating lots of lectins, over time, and health problems can develop. Some people are strong enough or lucky enough to never develop health problems in spite of a lectin-rich diet. If it was something as obvious as most people having strokes after eating one chicken nugget, then chicken would be considered "poison" and not "food." Even the most lectin-rich foods are better than starvation!

Most people can eat a meal containing chicken and have no obvious reactions to it, even if subtle damage is occurring inside. A lot of the damage caused by lectins is  considered "what happens when we grow older" and not something preventable via diet.

Posted by: ABJoe, Thursday, July 19, 2012, 8:37pm; Reply: 29
Quoted from san j
Please direct us to the evidence that the ingestion of chicken causes a stroke in individuals with bloodtype B.

Quoted from ER4YT, Pg. 148-9
Chicken may be leaner (although not always) than red meat, but that isn't the issue.  The issue is the power of an agglutinating lectin to attack your bloodstream and potentially lead to strokes and immune disorders.  So, even though chicken may be a beloved food, I urge you to begin weaning yourself away from it.

This statement is adequate for me to believe that "Chicken can cause strokes in Type B people."
Quoted from ER4YT, Pg. 189
The lectin that irritates the blood and digestive tracts of Type Bs has the same effect on you (ABs), so stay away from chicken.

This warning is even stronger than in the B section of the book...

I would venture that if you read the references listed under "Disease associations with blood type", ER4YT page 374, you would find the information substantiating the concern Dr. D. shows in warning the Type Bs and ABs away from the lectin contained in chicken.

Posted by: chud, Thursday, July 19, 2012, 8:50pm; Reply: 30
Quoted Text


The issue is the power of an agglutinating lectin to attack your bloodstream and potentially lead to STROKES and immune disorders.



Thanks for that quote ABjoe.  Case closed.
Posted by: Tom Martens, Saturday, July 21, 2012, 1:44am; Reply: 31
Can't we just say that an avoid is an avoid?  Allowing avoids to become black dots or "ok" after "x" amount of time has caused too much confusion and rancor.  :( :( :-/

Keeping it simple is always best. ;)
Posted by: san j, Saturday, July 21, 2012, 1:58am; Reply: 32
Quoted from Tom Martens
Can't we just say that an avoid is an avoid?  Allowing avoids to become black dots or "ok" after "x" amount of time has caused too much confusion and rancor.  :( :( :-/

Keeping it simple is always best. ;)


Dr. D'Adamo is the one who instituted the "black dot" system. So why should "we" ignore that?  ??)

Yes, Individuality confuses some people, who may prefer laws in black and white, and a "100% compliance level" for all. Your statement that "Keeping it simple is always best" would be appropriate for people who have trouble coping with complexity but isn't "simple" for everyone.  :)

My guess is that Dr. D'Adamo has a broad enough clinical clientele to know that a great deal of variation has to be taken into account.

Posted by: marjorie, Saturday, July 21, 2012, 2:00am; Reply: 33
I very rarely eat any avoids but I have celiac, so I have not had wheat in 12 years. I also think that corn and potatoes put weight on me fast and quick inflammation.

It takes time to figure out what works best for you, but the swami says it all. Just use it as a nice guideline, and then follow your "gut".
Posted by: san j, Saturday, July 21, 2012, 2:02am; Reply: 34
Hi, ABJoe.
Thanks for taking the time to help with this matter.
Let's look at it.
Quoted Text
The issue is the power of an agglutinating lectin to attack your bloodstream and potentially lead to strokes and immune disorders.  So, even though chicken may be a beloved food, I urge you to begin weaning yourself away from it.


Quoted from ABJoe
This statement is adequate for me to believe that "Chicken can cause strokes in Type B people."




People tell me: "I can't drink red wine. It causes me to have headaches."
Others say, "I can't drink milk; it causes too much mucus to build up."
Others say, "I can't drink coffee: It causes insomnia."
Others say, "I can't eat nightshades; they cause painful joints."

But I've never heard anyone say, "Aunt Sue ate a piece of roast chicken, and it caused her to have a stroke."

Why is this an important distinction to make?

The majority of the world's Bs eat chicken. The majority of the world's Bs do not have strokes. Do you see what I'm saying?

And also: Though one particular B may be very susceptible to the nefarious chicken lectin, another may be considerably less so. Dr. D'Adamo would certainly concur with this, having accorded chicken a "black dot" for Nomads, who are all ABs and Bs.

So the problems here, ABJoe, and thanks again for your diligence, are:
1. the inaccuracy of that statement that chicken causes stroke in Bs, and
2. the assumption that all B's respond equally pathologically (and indeed catastrophically!) to the chicken lectin.

All I'm asking is that we lighten up on the catastrophic rhetoric AND remember the primacy of Individuality, even within the D'Adamo orbit. (I'm, frankly, surprised that the über-individualism inculcated by the SWAMI philosophy hasn't rubbed off on its proponents!  :D)

PS Add/edit:
Here's another reason this is an important distinction.
You rightly quote Dr. D'Adamo as urging Bs to "begin weaning [themselves] away from [chicken]."

Let's consider cigarettes for a minute, because all agree that cigarette smoking is deleterious to the health of everyone.
But there is a difference between the person who has a pack-a-day habit and the one who smokes once after Thanksgiving dinner and once after Christmas dinner, say. Twice a year.
The former may be very seriously curtailing his lifespan. The latter is far less likely to be doing so.

In the case of Bs vis-à-vis chicken: Most Americans who eat meat are consuming chicken several times a week or thereabout. At least a few times a week. There are Bs who have taken Dr. D'Adamo's teachings to heart, however, and have cut down their chicken intake to once or twice a month, thus consuming far, far, far less chicken than virtually all other carnivorous Americans. Telling them "eating chicken causes strokes in Bs" is as true as telling the twice-a-year smoker that "cigarette smoking will shorten your life". Do you get it yet?
I really hope so, because I long ago made my point.
Thanks for your interest.  :)







Posted by: ABJoe, Saturday, July 21, 2012, 2:35am; Reply: 35
Quoted from san j
But I've never heard anyone say, "Aunt Sue ate a piece of roast chicken, and it caused her to have a stroke."

Why is this an important distinction to make?

The majority of the world's Bs eat chicken. The majority of the world's Bs do not have strokes. Do you see what I'm saying?

And also: Though one particular B may be very susceptible to the nefarious chicken lectin, another may be considerably less so. Dr. D'Adamo would certainly concur with this, having accorded chicken a "black dot" for Nomads, who are all ABs and Bs.

So the problems here, ABJoe, and thanks again for your diligence, are:
1. the inaccuracy of that statement that chicken causes stroke in Bs, and
2. the assumption that all B's respond equally pathologically (and indeed catastrophically!) to the chicken lectin.

Since I have heard of a Type AB having (3) TIA's immediately following several chicken meals, I will continue to say what I have said.  Yes, this individual had already had a major stroke, so had a propensity for more stroke activity.

You cringe from the strength of the terms, but in case of a sick person not having followed BTD or GTD, I believe it to be justified.

As Dr. D. stated in a thread today(across 2 posts), if a Nomad has been following the diet for some time, his liver should be strong enough to handle small amounts of chicken lectin as a hormetic response.
http://www.dadamo.com/cgi-bin/Blah/Blah.pl?m-1342596967/s-40/#num32
Otherwise, I'll continue to state that the potential exists for sick Type B individuals to suffer stroke after eating chicken.
Posted by: san j, Saturday, July 21, 2012, 4:19am; Reply: 36
Quoted from ABJoe
Since I have heard of a Type AB having (3) TIA's immediately following several chicken meals, I will continue to say what I have said.  Yes, this individual had already had a major stroke, so had a propensity for more stroke activity.


Aw, shucks, ABJoe. I had really hoped that, since you'd gone to the trouble of actually providing, sort of, references, that the level of discourse here had risen above the anecdotal. But, in the end, that's what you base your conclusion on.

For you, as an individual, that's certainly fine with me. But a perusal of the posts on this thread says that most here are willing to state that even individuals who share a bloodtype or a genotype can be expected to differ widely with respect to which Avoids cause them any sort of real trouble, that being the subject of this thread, don't forget. I'm willing to respect that and corroborate it. I also share D'Adamo's work with the curious in such a way that emphasizes it.

I guess I'm just...an Individual. Hear, hear!  :D
Posted by: ABJoe, Saturday, July 21, 2012, 4:52am; Reply: 37
Quoted from san j


Aw, shucks, ABJoe. I had really hoped that, since you'd gone to the trouble of actually providing, sort of, references, that the level of discourse here had risen above the anecdotal. But, in the end, that's what you base your conclusion on.

So it's OK for you to use lack of anecdotal as basis for your point, but not for me to use as basis for mine?

Also, I could see your vehemence if I said "Eating chicken WILL lead to stroke.", but to say there is some correlation or that it is possible for chicken to precipitate a stroke is what Dr. D. said in the book.
Posted by: Possum, Saturday, July 21, 2012, 4:58am; Reply: 38
Careful now, with all this arguing, someone might have a stroke ;)
Posted by: Lola, Saturday, July 21, 2012, 6:08am; Reply: 39
Prunella, welcome! :)
Posted by: chud, Monday, July 23, 2012, 3:12pm; Reply: 40
Quoted from ABJoe

So it's OK for you to use lack of anecdotal as basis for your point, but not for me to use as basis for mine?


I agree with ABjoe.  We are free to express our opinions, and don't have to do so according to SanJ's criteria.  She seems to think she's the moderator of this forum.

Quoted from ABJoe
Also, I could see your vehemence if I said "Eating chicken WILL lead to stroke.", but to say there is some correlation or that it is possible for chicken to precipitate a stroke is what Dr. D. said in the book.


Absolutely right.  Here is the quote again:

"The issue is the power of an agglutinating lectin to attack your bloodstream and potentially lead to strokes and immune disorders."
Posted by: Goldie, Monday, July 23, 2012, 3:57pm; Reply: 41
I see all avoids as not good for me, but should I eat this or that, because I just can't help myself..

I don't hang my head in shame nor make me crazy..

What I DO, is take full responsibility for my action and not blame the diet on my feeling badly and bad I will feel, bloated, or sleepy or constipated..

all avoids are not equal.. but they do require self evaluation..  and four times a year even avoids in small 'measures' will not kill anyone..

I think 100% adherence would be ill advised, it might speak of mental constipation.. Live and live well is my motto.. IT HAS worked just fine..

UNLESS someone comes up with a better drop weight protocol.. for that I would be pleased to make changes.. and that is how I do change things around.. adding or subtracting, but unless I see big results, I soon go back to what I know will at least keep me healthy..  
Posted by: yaeli, Monday, July 23, 2012, 8:01pm; Reply: 42
Quoted from Possum
Careful now, with all this arguing, someone might have a stroke ;)
:D :K)

Posted by: 2degreespisces, Monday, July 23, 2012, 8:31pm; Reply: 43
Quoted from san j

Why is this an important distinction to make?

The majority of the world's Bs eat chicken. The majority of the world's Bs do not have strokes. Do you see what I'm saying?

And also: Though one particular B may be very susceptible to the nefarious chicken lectin, another may be considerably less so. Dr. D'Adamo would certainly concur with this, having accorded chicken a "black dot" for Nomads, who are all ABs and Bs.

....

All I'm asking is that we lighten up on the catastrophic rhetoric AND remember the primacy of Individuality, even within the D'Adamo orbit. (I'm, frankly, surprised that the über-individualism inculcated by the SWAMI philosophy hasn't rubbed off on its proponents!  :D)



This, in a nutshell, is what the entire discussion boils down to in my opinion.
I entirely agree with san j's statements as quoted; and even for those who are not yet on the individualized SWAMI-level: there is no food that gives a 100% disease rate, for any blood type.

So even if you stick with BTD, we're talking about tendencies and statistics over large groups of people, never about a 1-on-1 cause and effect between one food and any disease.
(Except in the case of allergies and heightened sensitivities of course, but the "chicken debate" isn't about that.)
Posted by: chud, Tuesday, July 24, 2012, 4:27pm; Reply: 44
Quoted Text


"The issue is the power of an agglutinating lectin to attack your bloodstream and potentially lead to strokes and immune disorders."  (Dr. Peter D'Adamo)
Posted by: ruthiegirl, Tuesday, July 24, 2012, 5:01pm; Reply: 45
Quoted from 2degreespisces
So even if you stick with BTD, we're talking about tendencies and statistics over large groups of people, never about a 1-on-1 cause and effect between one food and any disease.


I think there are some mushrooms that can cause fatal liver failure within a few hours of consumption. Those are considered "poisonous" rather than "edible" mushrooms though.
Posted by: 2degreespisces, Tuesday, July 24, 2012, 8:11pm; Reply: 46
Quoted from ruthiegirl


I think there are some mushrooms that can cause fatal liver failure within a few hours of consumption. Those are considered "poisonous" rather than "edible" mushrooms though.


Sure, and there are types of fish that kill you if they're badly prepared, if I'm not mistaken  :) Although mostly it's the Japanese who eat those  ::)

However, that's not the same thing as the relationship between regularly consuming a food and the risk of developing a certain disease over time, as was the topic of this thread.
Posted by: chud, Tuesday, July 24, 2012, 9:02pm; Reply: 47
Quoted from 2degreespisces


Sure, and there are types of fish that kill you if they're badly prepared, if I'm not mistaken  :)


So that possibility, though extreme, exists.  

Quoted from 2degreespisces
However, that's not the same thing as the relationship between regularly consuming a food and the risk of developing a certain disease over time, as was the topic of this thread.


So are you denying the possibility that regularly consuming a certain food (an avoid) over time may put you at risk of developing a certain disease?  If so, it would seem that you are denying the possibility of avoids all together.

Let's look again at what Dr. D said, regarding chicken and B's and AB's:

Quoted Text
The issue is the power of an agglutinating lectin to attack your bloodstream and potentially lead to strokes and immune disorders.

Posted by: Mother, Wednesday, July 25, 2012, 12:12am; Reply: 48
In my own personal situation, I have noticed the negative effects of enough, though not all avoids that I am convinced that the BT diet has  substantiation. I also believe that just because I can't 'feel' the effects of all avoids doesn't mean they aren't effecting me negatively. Therefore I choose to obstain from most avoids as often as I can. I know how much better I feel eating the right foods and not the wrong. It is also my decision to obstain from the most detrimental ones for my BT which are wheat, corn dairy etc. I have also have some of the potential disease markers for an O such as BS issues and skin cancer as well as thyroid. I am greatful to Dr D and his work for helping me to deal with them. The diet has stabalized all of these. If I were a B I would not take the chance by eating chicken. It's just a bird. I have many B clients that have come to 'feel' the effects of chicken. Does it guarantee they'll have a stroke if they eat it? of course not. However, I personally wouldn't take that chance by making it any kind of regular part of my diet. Is SWAMI 100% accurate? No but chicken is a big one for a B. If, as an O, I were to continue to eat the major avoids I would have to wonder why I'm BTing at all. After all, I am here to better my health and thanks to this diet, I am so much better for it.  But that's just me.
Posted by: san j, Wednesday, July 25, 2012, 12:58am; Reply: 49
Quoted from san j
Why is this an important distinction to make?

The majority of the world's Bs eat chicken. The majority of the world's Bs do not have strokes. Do you see what I'm saying?

And also: Though one particular B may be very susceptible to the nefarious chicken lectin, another may be considerably less so. Dr. D'Adamo would certainly concur with this, having accorded chicken a "black dot" for Nomads, who are all ABs and Bs.

....

All I'm asking is that we lighten up on the catastrophic rhetoric AND remember the primacy of Individuality, even within the D'Adamo orbit. (I'm, frankly, surprised that the über-individualism inculcated by the SWAMI philosophy hasn't rubbed off on its proponents!  :D )


Quoted from 2degreespisces

This, in a nutshell, is what the entire discussion boils down to in my opinion.
I entirely agree with san j's statements as quoted; and even for those who are not yet on the individualized SWAMI-level: there is no food that gives a 100% disease rate, for any blood type.

So even if you stick with BTD, we're talking about tendencies and statistics over large groups of people, never about a 1-on-1 cause and effect between one food and any disease.
(Except in the case of allergies and heightened sensitivities of course, but the "chicken debate" isn't about that.)


Yay! Someone gets it! Whaddya know!  :D

Posted by: chud, Wednesday, July 25, 2012, 2:30am; Reply: 50
   ::)
Posted by: 2degreespisces, Wednesday, July 25, 2012, 5:08am; Reply: 51
Quoted from chud


So are you denying the possibility that regularly consuming a certain food (an avoid) over time may put you at risk of developing a certain disease?  If so, it would seem that you are denying the possibility of avoids all together.



I'm not at all denying the relationship between regularly consuming a food and the risk of disease.
If I didn't believe in the whole concept of BTD/GTD, I wouldn't be such a strict follower of the diet.

However, except in the case of allergies and those rare instances when eating a food immediately kills you, the relationship between eating that food and developing a certain disease is not 1-on-1, meaning: not every type B consuming chicken will develop a stroke, not all A's eating red meat will develop colon cancer.
That's not to say there's no correlation and that's not to say there's not a higher risk for B's and stroke or A's and colon cancer.

But as I said earlier, I agree with san j that we should be careful in how we put this risk into words.
Posted by: Caz B, Wednesday, July 25, 2012, 5:59am; Reply: 52
Quoted from 2degreespisces


I'm not at all denying the relationship between regularly consuming a food and the risk of disease.
If I didn't believe in the whole concept of BTD/GTD, I wouldn't be such a strict follower of the diet.

However, except in the case of allergies and those rare instances when eating a food immediately kills you, the relationship between eating that food and developing a certain disease is not 1-on-1, meaning: not every type B consuming chicken will develop a stroke, not all A's eating red meat will develop colon cancer.
That's not to say there's no correlation and that's not to say there's not a higher risk for B's and stroke or A's and colon cancer.

But as I said earlier, I agree with san j that we should be careful in how we put this risk into words.


Well said.
Posted by: Lola, Wednesday, July 25, 2012, 7:42pm; Reply: 53
to wrap it all up

Quoted Text
book EAT RIGHT 4 YOUR BLOOD TYPE  THE INDIVIDUALIZED ... on page 149),chicken is to be avoided as its 'lectins may attack the bloodstream and may lead to strokes and immune disorders (auto-immune problems such as allergies and arthritis'
Posted by: Lola, Wednesday, July 31, 2013, 6:41am; Reply: 54
Quoted Text
Dr D
Chicken, or Galus galus lectin, has a specificity for certain forms of the sugar galactose, with a preference for galactose in the liver. In the ABO diets it was as simple as that; galactose (or in reality the galactose-fucose epitope) is the B antigen so stay away from chicken. Once you add secretor information, the expression data changes; secretors have more blood type expression, non-secretors, less. Sick livers have more ABO expression than healthy ones. Adding the genotype data yields more expression data; certain factors, such as D2/D4 are pleiotropic (one gene influences multiple phenotypic traits) with ABO.  Thus the evolution of BTD-GTD-SWAMi is in part the quest for the degree of predictable lectin sensitivity in a person. Finally, by the time you get to SWAMi you are not even really analyzing single foods very much. The idea of the  'dot avoid' was to help refine things further: careful reintroduction should be considered.
Print page generated: Sunday, October 26, 2014, 9:39am