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BTD Forums  /  The GenoType Diet  /  Calling all Nomads and parents of Nomads
Posted by: Adopted4, Wednesday, June 13, 2012, 4:35pm
Hello everyone,

I have 2 Ukrainian adopted 16 year old sons, 1 of which tested relatively high as a Nomad.We have no genetic info on their birth parents.  I have read that Nomads are relatively unique from the other Genotypes because of extremes in height,  ranging from very short to very tall, often times men being short and women being tall. Is that usually the case?   I also understand that the altitude at which a Nomad is born has an affect on height, due to oxygen levels or something like that.

Here's what the mystery is. His twin brother has always been taller than him (a very strong Explorer) but now my Nomad son is closing the gap because his growth spurt has come much later than his brothers. Nomad son is about 5'8" currently and Explorer son is 5'11". If my Nomad son doesn't grow much more I suppose he would be considered moderate to moderately short for an adult male. It's always been a bit tough for him always being smaller than his peers and his brother, so I'm really hoping he will continue to grow for a while. I've heard from other parents of teen boys that sometimes they keep growing through high school and sometimes even early college years.
Being that my sons lived in an orphanage approximately the first 5 years of their life and being developmentally delayed, I always assumed they would always be a bit stunted in growth and not be terribly tall. Perhaps I was wrong and many years of good nutrition has helped them tremendously.

My Nomad son is a black belt in Tae Kwon Do (as well as his brother and my older daughter) and enjoys lifting weights to build his physique. He is studying law enforcement in our home school and wants to go to college for a degree in criminal justice. Right now he's thinking about being a police officer. It sure would be beneficial for him to be a large or at least moderately large man for that kind of a career.

I would appreciate any opinions or insight from other Nomads or relatives of Nomads about growth factors in Nomads. Thanks.

Coleen
Posted by: Lola, Wednesday, June 13, 2012, 7:13pm; Reply: 1
have you mentioned their age?

some kids grow fast, others follow at their own pace

the growth factor should be watched by their doc, no?

what does he tell you?
Posted by: gulfcoastguy, Thursday, June 14, 2012, 2:21am; Reply: 2
Both my Dad and I are Nomads. I'm 5' 11" and he is 5' 8" though he has brothers as tall as 6' 2". Both my Dad and Granddad married short women. I had gained all of my height by 16 but continued to gain muscle and bone density till my mid twenties. I also studied martial arts, mostly kenpo. Training and awareness will make up for size in most cases. Just remember Nomads can be deceptively strong for their size.
Posted by: ruthiegirl, Thursday, June 14, 2012, 3:04pm; Reply: 3
Lola- they're both 16.

Coleen- are they identical or fraternal twins?
Posted by: Adopted4, Thursday, June 14, 2012, 4:38pm; Reply: 4
My boys have been seen by various doctors over the years (we move a lot!). Initially we were concerned about my Nomad son being so petite and growing very little the first year we had them. He was not on the standard growth charts even a year after adopting them. But none of the different doctors we saw were concerned at all since he otherwise seemed healthy. We were also told that kids around 5 or 6 years of age grow very slowly and we shouldn't expect unusually fast growth at that age. My Nomad son has never seen a doctor due to illness and over the years has had a few physicals every now and then for various reasons. No doctor has ever raised any concerns about his height. Even a little over 2 years ago our boys (almost 14 years old) had to have physicals for our local adoption agency. My Explorer son already reached puberty and was 5'9 and my Nomad son was only 5'2". Even then the doctor was not concerned about his height. Although my Nomad son does not complain or express his feelings much, I'm sure socially it was somewhat difficult for him at that time.

By the way, my sons are most definitely fraternal. They've never really looked alike except they have the same black hair, dark eyes, and brown skin. I might add my boys are ethnically gypsy (Roma) even though they were born in a mostly caucasian country. We were only told their birth mother was gypsy (single) and we know nothing of their birth father. However, my Nomad son has always been just a shade darker than his brother so it's possible they could be partly mixed race.

Coleen
Posted by: Victoria, Thursday, June 14, 2012, 5:42pm; Reply: 5
My son, whom I suspect is a Nomad, was a little runt until his early teens, when he started getting taller, and ended up at 5'11".

My brother was even more of a late grower.  When he was 13, he looked like an 8 year old.  He didn't start growing until he was 16, and also grew to 5'11".  He is a blood type AB, and I also suspect that he is a Nomad.
Posted by: gulfcoastguy, Thursday, June 14, 2012, 5:48pm; Reply: 6
The Roma originated in northern India though through there travels they naturally intermarried. Dark hair and olive skin is common though some of the ones who traveled through northern Greece can be blonde.
Posted by: Easy E, Thursday, June 14, 2012, 9:17pm; Reply: 7
My dad is a nomad, but he is 5'9" which is average for a man.  In most other ways he fits the nomad profile.  Not content in the same place too long, very easy going until you cross a threshold (which is high).

Higher metabolism, AB, jaw angled more, square shape of head, though he is smaller framed than what is said of the typical nomad.  Nomads and explorers have medium frames and bigger bones and muscles overall.  Lebanese decent from phonecian line, with possible very early east indian, celtic, and ancient hebrew ancestry.

As for the size to be in law enforcement, it helps, but how you carry yourself and the skills you possess are far more important.
Posted by: Adopted4, Friday, June 15, 2012, 3:48am; Reply: 8
From the research I've done on the Roma race, they descended from anywhere between India, Afghanistan, or Pakistan. I tend to think they look more middle eastern than Asian. As far as intermarrying, that may be true in some cultures but probably less frequently in Europe since the Roma are very significantly discriminated against. I won't get into all that since this is not the proper place to discuss such controversial subjects, but I am very knowledgeable in adoption and the social issues surrounding the high numbers of Roma children in orphanages throughout Eastern Europe. The Romas migration patterns are usually related to political and economic situations.  

I sometimes wonder, if either of my sons would eventually want to get a SWAMI, what they would check for what area of the world they descended from? It's funny, but just last week my boys filled out job applications for our local Target store and my husband told me there were more than a dozen different racial/ethnicity choices to choose from and none of them were a close match to their Roma heritage. There wasn't even a place labeled "other" where they could type in their race. They ended up checking caucasian, but if they called in for an interview they'll have some explaining to do.

It is very fitting that my Roma sons are Nomad and Explorer. I'll bet a lot middle eastern/southern Asian people are type B. I actually thought my daughters, 1 Korean and 1 Chinese, may have turned out to be type B also because of their Asian backgrounds, but they're both type O. It sure has made life interesting in our home with 3 different blood types and combinations of all genotypes.

I look forward to hearing from more Nomads and/or relatives.

Coleen
Posted by: Henriette Bsec, Friday, June 15, 2012, 6:32am; Reply: 9
Hi
I am a nomad and not that tall for a Dane 166cm (5.5)

I was normal weight and hight until 1 years ( Breastfed to 8 months)
then I was tiny until around teenager when I grew to a more average size.
I am well built - stronger than most women Got overweight in my 20ies but have lost most of it -needs another 10 kg to go.

My sister is Gatherer( B) and 172 cm (5.7 3/4) She had a totally different growth pattern and have been overweight since she was 6-7 years and is today really huge  :'(

My mum is Explorer ( O) and 169 cm (5.6) she was rather small until teenager as well.
Has been slim until she was 55-60 years. She is rather strong as well.

Dad was Nomad as well but (AB) he was 172cm. He had really small hands and feet but really strong
He was overweight most of his grown up life -but never ever sick before a bladdercancer killed him.

My daughter is 18 years and O type and 176( 5.9 1/2) cm ( she is half Irish -half Danish)
I think she is either explorer or hunter -she seem a weird mix just like her mum;)
-I have a rather strong explorer and gatherer part as well.
E has always been taller and heavier than most girls- she was rather fat until 2 years ;9 but then she grew a lot and is today slim and well built.
Posted by: Easy E, Friday, June 15, 2012, 1:59pm; Reply: 10
Quoted from Adopted4
From the research I've done on the Roma race, they descended from anywhere between India, Afghanistan, or Pakistan. I tend to think they look more middle eastern than Asian. As far as intermarrying, that may be true in some cultures but probably less frequently in Europe since the Roma are very significantly discriminated against. I won't get into all that since this is not the proper place to discuss such controversial subjects, but I am very knowledgeable in adoption and the social issues surrounding the high numbers of Roma children in orphanages throughout Eastern Europe. The Romas migration patterns are usually related to political and economic situations.  

I sometimes wonder, if either of my sons would eventually want to get a SWAMI, what they would check for what area of the world they descended from? It's funny, but just last week my boys filled out job applications for our local Target store and my husband told me there were more than a dozen different racial/ethnicity choices to choose from and none of them were a close match to their Roma heritage. There wasn't even a place labeled "other" where they could type in their race. They ended up checking caucasian, but if they called in for an interview they'll have some explaining to do.

It is very fitting that my Roma sons are Nomad and Explorer. I'll bet a lot middle eastern/southern Asian people are type B. I actually thought my daughters, 1 Korean and 1 Chinese, may have turned out to be type B also because of their Asian backgrounds, but they're both type O. It sure has made life interesting in our home with 3 different blood types and combinations of all genotypes.

I look forward to hearing from more Nomads and/or relatives.

Coleen


B and AB are still relatively rare blood types even in places with higher proportions of B and AB.  My father is the oldest of 10 and is AB since my grandpa was A (likely a teacher, perhaps a warrior, but short) and my grandma is B (and a nomad most surely)!  

So nomads as a genotype are prob the rarest genotype!  


I myself am prob the only A in a family of 4, and i believe the only explorer as well.  In fact, i think we are all a different blood type, but my sister's blood type is unknown.  It is either A or B.  Made for interesting, and perhaps out of sync relations on some levels, but nonetheless our family of four are close to each other.
Posted by: ruthiegirl, Friday, June 15, 2012, 11:54pm; Reply: 11
You don't necessarily need to "intermarry" for people to have kids together. I'm sure there have been plenty of Roma girls/women who found themselves impregnated  by somebody in the surrounding community, even if they moved on with their families before the baby was born. Roma men may have left some half-Roma babies behind in places they traveled through
Posted by: Adopted4, Saturday, June 16, 2012, 1:32am; Reply: 12
Henriette, so sorry to hear of the loss of your father to cancer. My stepmother-in-law died after a long battle with cancer. I know how heart wrenching it is to watch a loved one die and not be able to do anything to stop it.

Easy-E, you're right in saying a small population of the world is type B. Perhaps what I should have articulated better is that, due to my sons and each daughter's heritage, the likelihood of at least one or two of them being type B was relatively high. If you make a guess and say approximately 20-30% of the Roma, Korean, and Chinese population are type B and most of the rest are type O, that would still be considered the minority even though proportionately that percentage would be much higher than the global population. While adopting our youngest from China last fall I was just starting to learn about the blood type diet and decided shortly after our return home to test all of our children at home since none of their adoption records indicated their blood types. While anticipating the tests, I felt very strongly we would find out at least one would be B. As I said before, both of my sons are type B and the girls are type O. I'm so glad we had them tested. It certainly doesn't make life easier in terms of meal planning with many differing blood types/genotypes, but without the knowledge of any family history, that alone puts them at higher risk for future illness and disease. However, there's an awful lot my kids can and are learning about healthy eating and lifestyle habits.

Ruthie, your theory about 1/2 Roma children is probably quite accurate. Maybe it does happen more than I realized. All I know is that the Roma are very much outcasts of society in many European countries. When you look at countries such as Ukraine, Hungary, Bulgaria and their adoption programs, what you'll find is that those families adopting domestically (they always get first dibs before international families) within these countries very rarely adopt Roma children. They are very nationalistic and want to adopt "their own". Very sad.

Coleen
Posted by: Anemone, Friday, October 5, 2012, 8:20pm; Reply: 13
I am a B Nomad and 5 ft 9, my brother is 6ft and also B Nomad.

My Mother is AB (I suspect more Gatherer) but her Mother was B and almost certainly Nomad.

My Father is O.

I am 37 and have a birthmark at the base of my spine which I have been told is a Mongolian spot and my Grandmother was quite dark skinned, brown eyes.  She used to tell me that her Great Grandmother was a gypsy but from where I don't know.

I find all this stuff really fascinating.
Posted by: Adopted4, Saturday, October 6, 2012, 3:23am; Reply: 14
I wouldn't be surprised if you have "gypsy blood" being that you're English. I think many gypsies have spread throughout Western Europe for quite a few generations due to terrible living conditions in the poor, eastern european third world countries. Unfortunately, though, I read that in recent years many gypsies migrated there because of the free welfare. It's understandable why they would want to flee persecution, but it's also not fair to the working class when many of these countries economies are struggling or near collapse anyway.

I have such a heart for the plight of gypsy children throughout the world. I'm not saying the gypsies themselves don't bear any responsibility over peoples' negative perception of them, but I know they often are discriminated against unfairly. My sons are 16 years old now and I shudder to think about what their lives would look like now had they not been adopted. Without any family or friends, most orphaned kids leaving an orphanage turn to drugs or prostitution.

If I could adopt another gypsy child, I would do it in a heartbeat. Although, we are in the process of moving to another state, so that is a higher priority right now. I have a plan to save up money over a period of time for another adoption which I hope will pan out well after we move. That way my husband doesn't have to worry about how to come up with tens of thousands of dollars to fund another adoption when we are still working to pay off our last Chinese adoption.

I like your name, Anemone, because it reminds me of Finding Nemo. Watch the movie if you don't know what I'm talking about.
Posted by: passionprincess, Monday, October 8, 2012, 7:14pm; Reply: 15
I am a B+ nomad. I stand at 5'3" and 105 lbs but I think my height was stunted a bit due to estrogen dominance at an early age. My sister is 5'6" and B+ teacher. She is has small bones but could easily look pudgy or "meaty". She is about 120 lbs or less, though.

I am small boned and an ectomorph. I look smaller and thinner than I am as a result.

My mother is an AB+ nomad with thicker bones and medium build at 5'4" and 110 lbs. My dad is O+ and a definite hunter who stands at 5'9" and 130 lbs (has issues with digestion so it is hard for him to gain weight).

We are all Korean by heritage.
Posted by: Adopted4, Monday, October 8, 2012, 8:18pm; Reply: 16
Passionprincess, thank you for telling me you're Korean because that really adds a lot of perspective to your post. My older daughter is an O+ Korean and a couple years ago she did research for a Literature class on the height of Koreans and found out most women don't exceed 5'4". However, I tend to think my daughter (age 9) may exceed that by a few inches because she has very strong Hunter personality characteristics as well as some Explorer characteristics. Both of those genotypes worldviews are very reactive, which she most definitely is, and they are generally on the taller side of average. I don't know her birthparents height or sizes, but since she is now eating for her type she may grow a little taller and leaner than many other Korean girls.

By the way, this years Miss Universe contestant from Korea (south) is 5'7", so I'm sure that some Korean women don't fit the typical mold.

My daughter is a 1st degree black belt in Tae Kwon Do like my sons are, but she wants to take a break from classes after we move to Maryland, even though my sons want to resume there.

As far as my Nomad son, he still continues to slowly grow taller, unlike his brother who grows more in spurts. I don't think he's done growing, so it'll be interesting to see where he'll top off at.
Posted by: passionprincess, Monday, October 8, 2012, 9:04pm; Reply: 17
I am on the shorter end of the height scale for Korean women in their 30s. The post-war generation (people born after the 1950s and their offspring) are usually much taller due to better nutrition. Korea lacked resources during and before the war (especially during the Japanese occupation).

Nowadays, it is not unusual to find native Korean women who are around 5'6" and taller and men are closer to 6 feet.

I met some first wave immigrants (Koreans whose family immigrated in the late 1800s and early 1900s) and they average about 5'4" to about 5'7". It is about nutrition.

Maryland has quite a huge Korean American community (my cousins have lived there for over forty years). Virginia also has a large community and your daughter will be able to get a lot of ethnic support if she wants. :-)

Quoted from Adopted4
Passionprincess, thank you for telling me you're Korean because that really adds a lot of perspective to your post. My older daughter is an O+ Korean and a couple years ago she did research for a Literature class on the height of Koreans and found out most women don't exceed 5'4". However, I tend to think my daughter (age 9) may exceed that by a few inches because she has very strong Hunter personality characteristics as well as some Explorer characteristics. Both of those genotypes worldviews are very reactive, which she most definitely is, and they are generally on the taller side of average. I don't know her birthparents height or sizes, but since she is now eating for her type she may grow a little taller and leaner than many other Korean girls.

By the way, this years Miss Universe contestant from Korea (south) is 5'7", so I'm sure that some Korean women don't fit the typical mold.

My daughter is a 1st degree black belt in Tae Kwon Do like my sons are, but she wants to take a break from classes after we move to Maryland, even though my sons want to resume there.

As far as my Nomad son, he still continues to slowly grow taller, unlike his brother who grows more in spurts. I don't think he's done growing, so it'll be interesting to see where he'll top off at.


Posted by: Adopted4, Tuesday, October 9, 2012, 3:07am; Reply: 18
There has been a large Korean population here in the twin cities and my daughter went to Korean Culture Camp these last two summers and loved it. We hope there will be something similar close to where we will live in southern MD, but D.C. will be a longer drive for us if that is where those types of camps will be.

By the way, we lived in Virginia in a western suburb for nearly 10 years before moving to Minnesota 7 years ago. My daughter has very few memories of it since she had just turned 2 when we moved to Minnesota. I loved the east coast and I'm sure I will again. We still have lots of friends in Virginia we will be visiting occasionally since they're only a couple hours away from our new home.
Posted by: Mrs T O+, Wednesday, October 10, 2012, 3:43am; Reply: 19
I have heard that some males can finish growing at age 26!
Truly your kids are "fearfully & wonderfully made!"
I'm so glad to hear that the various doctors along the way did not try to drug or over-test the shorter twin. What a nightmare that could have been!

This is such an interesting discussion.
Posted by: Adopted4, Thursday, October 11, 2012, 2:12am; Reply: 20
I guess it's been said that some Nomads start life small and fragile, and then catch up later. This could very well be the case for my Nomad son as he is a very disciplined eater and is receiving a lot of quality nutrition. I wonder if getting him off chicken and corn (most of the time) along with increasing beneficials has had a significant impact on his growth? He has not been sick at all, I think, the last year with the exception of a stuffy nose occasionally. He used to get bad headaches occasionally also in the past and that hasn't been an issue either.

Yes, Mrs. T my kids are fearfully and wonderfully made! How unique they all were at the time of their adoptions. And to watch my sons grow and change these last 11 years are pretty amazing. I really thought years of orphanage life was going to stunt both my sons growth, but boy was I wrong. Time will tell just how much they will defy the odds!
Posted by: gulfcoastguy, Thursday, October 11, 2012, 2:53am; Reply: 21
Wheat can give Nomads a stuffy nose or at least this one.
Posted by: passionprincess, Thursday, October 11, 2012, 3:06am; Reply: 22
Wheat gives me a stuffy nose, sinus infection, double vision, headache and hives! I also sneeze and feel sleepy. Wheat is awful. :-( I cannot focus, either.

Quoted from gulfcoastguy
Wheat can give Nomads a stuffy nose or at least this one.


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