I believe Dr D of all people has in fact done our gut math for us all ... on a Mexican radio? which is it?
Quoted Textneither one was specific to the information I'm trying to ascertain.
Thanks, however, I'd already read the content contained within both of those linked pages and neither one was specific to the information I'm trying to ascertain.
I don't know the answer, but you could start looking here:
Quoted Textif Streptococcus thermophilus truly doesn't survive stomach acids/bile, what is the basis of its inclusion in Polyflora O?
you might be repeating a one size fit all expert advice somewhere on the net......do not believe everything you read ;D
Quoted TextStreptococcus thermophilus is an alpha-hemolytic species of the viridans group. The bacterium is found in milk and milk products. It is not a probiotic (it does not survive the stomach) and generally is used in the production of yogurt and the manufacture of several types of cheese, especially Italian and Swiss cheeses. The organism is a moderate thermophile with an optimal growth rate at 45 °C. Although S. thermophilus is closely related to other pathogenic streptococci (such as S. pneumoniae and S. pyogenes), S. thermophilus is classified as a non-pathogenic, alpha-hemolytic species that is part of the viridan's group. It is closely related to S. salivarius in the oral cavity.
Have you gone thru any of the NIH stuff yet? Did you notice that S. Ther... is used in some bacteria combinations to provide folic acid? I found that interesting.
so far no one has studied the link of IAP content in the different Abo physiologies......there might lie your answer.....do the other polyfloras contain that S T strain?
Quoted Text"Despite the widely held assumptions about the probiotic properties of classic lactic acid bacteria in yogurt, L. delbrueckii and S. thermophilus, data about the function of these organisms in the human intestine remain scarce at best and unconvincing where they exist at all (16). The new molecular techniques provide a much greater opportunity to examine this important research question. In the carefully controlled experiments reported in this paper, we were consistently unable to detect viable yogurt lactic acid bacteria in fecal samples after repeated yogurt consumption by healthy volunteers. L. delbrueckii and/or S. thermophilus DNA remains were detected by hybridization assays in only 10% of volunteers who had ingested fresh yogurt ...."
Quoted Text"There is scientific evidence that specific strains of probiotic microorganisms confer health benefits on the host and are safe for human use. However, this evidence cannot be extrapolated to other strains, as these effects are strain-specific ...."
Quoted Text"In our study, S. thermophilus was retrieved from only one volunteer on day 7, but we cannot exclude the possibility that a prolonged ingestion period or a larger amount of ingested yogurt, as described by Mater et al. (22), could positively affect the rate of S. thermophilus recovery from fecal samples. However, several authors have shown that S. thermophilus suffers from the environmentally adverse gastric conditions (9, 26) ...."
Quoted Text"The DGGE analysis showed that the individual composition of intestinal microbiota remained stable during the study period, and no significant differences were observed after the exposure to either type of yogurt. The DGGE analysis corroborated previous results indicating that classic bacteria used for yogurt fermentation were unable either to survive after ingestion or to colonize the intestinal tract (9). DGGE experiments using universal primers allowed us to identify particular band patterns among the different individuals, although we consider that the low number of bands detected with these primers hinders the precise analysis of qualitative changes ...."
Quoted TextPolyflora (reply) Posted by: Dr. D
Almost all probiotics are in spore formation (since bacteria go into
spore mode when dessicated).
Spores would survive a nuclear detonation.
How long the capsule takes to dissolve is immaterial.
Enteric coating is a good thing for aspirin, but a marketing gimmick for probiotics.
Full Text: Survival of Yogurt Bacteria in the Human Gut
Quoted TextOn the other hand, Brigidi et al. (4) reported that for 6 days after the end of treatment, they recovered S. thermophilus from fecal samples from 10 healthy subjects who had ingested a pharmaceutical preparation orally for 3 days.
Have you gone thru any of the NIH stuff yet? .... I found that interesting. I still don't claim any knowledge on why it is specifically in the O polyflora.
Is a program like this useful? :-/
Hi Lloyd, I recently received a white paper from a Streptococcus thermophilus manufacturer. It has some interesting information and provides data regarding the bacterium's ability to survive stomach acid/bile. The document's in PDF format, which is why I can't post it here. If you'd like to have a look at it, let me know and I can email it to you. (Or, is there a way to attach a file to a forum post and I've overlooked it?)
If you'd like to have a look at it, let me know and I can email it to you.
Quoted TextTo date, there is significant controversy as to the survival of yogurt bacteria (namely, Streptococcus thermophilus and Lactobacillus delbrueckii subsp. bulgaricus) after passage through the human gastrointestinal tract. Survival of both bacterial species in human feces was investigated by culture on selective media. Out of 39 samples recovered from 13 healthy subjects over a 12-day period of fresh yogurt intake, 32 and 37 samples contained viable S. thermophilus (median value of 6.3 x 10(4) CFU g(-1) of feces) and L. delbrueckii (median value of 7.2 x 10(4)CFU g(-1) of feces), respectively. The results of the present study indicate that substantial numbers of yogurt bacteria can survive human gastrointestinal transit.
Further information (that doesn't seem to bode well for S. thermophilus' probiotic status) ...
Full Text: Scarce Evidence of Yogurt Lactic Acid Bacteria in Human Feces after Daily Yogurt Consumption by Healthy Volunteers
Sure, check your PM box. Thanks!
Is a program like this useful? :-/
Quoted from SpringMakes me wish I could eat yogurt!
For this particular data set the survival rate is still an open question but it looks safe to assume that there is some level of survival that is large enough to be beneficial without megadosing.
I was particularly interested in the resistance to some antibiotics of ST. Good to know.
Naturally by now it should be apparent that since ST does not form spores, that portion of the Dr. D quote above does not apply to ST, which does say "Almost all". It would apply to various other probiotics in NAP formulations.
Dr D has also commented on other probiotics and their consumptive value. Part of the commentary had to do with the ability to populate the gut, implied in the analysis of ST in that report. There were also other factors but rather than rely on memory someone should do a search. There was something dealing with "too many strains" if memory serves, but the quote would need to be found.
Quoted from Doctor D'Adamo | http://www.dadamo.com/science_anthro.htmThe Basques are an ancient people whose origins are still a mystery. The Basque language, the only western European language not connected by Indo-European roots, appears to be related to several dialects found in small isolated populations in the valleys of the Caucasus Mountains. Although they look much like their French and Spanish neighbors, Basques possess the lowest frequency of blood group B---originally having no group B at all---and the highest frequencies of blood group O in Europe. Cattle, abundant on the European plains, and fresh water fish seem to have been the staples of their early existence, as evidenced by the extraordinary renderings of the famous cave paintings found in the Basque country.
More than fifty percent of the Basque population is Rh negative, as opposed to sixteen percent for the rest of Europe. Like the gene for group O, the genetic mechanism for the Rh negative blood type is simpler, hence undoubtedly older, than the gene for Rh positive.
This paragraph and the link are being emailed right away to my former boss, the head of the internal medicine depts and the former head of the infectious disease unit in a Jerusalem hospital.Defintely, and it begs the question of why drug-resistant probiotics aren't more often paired with the prescription of broad-spectrum antibiotics by allopaths (okay, that was somewhat rhetorical, but still valid). One example in which this could be very useful comes to mind: Clindamycin. This antibiotic can frequently cause pseudomembranous colitis, sometimes even months after the course of medication has been completed. However, L. casei, L. bulgaricus and S. thermophilus have all been studied and shown to be relatively efficacious in the control of C. difficile.
The reason I want to further look into what you mentioned, and why it's such a dichotomy for me, is that if there is a negative to be found in the consumption of multiple strains of probiotics, why are the peoples of the Caucasus Mountains--the birthplace of kefir--some of the longest lived individuals on earth? ... having more documented centenarians per capita than anywhere else on the planet?
Anyhow, thanks for helping me brainstorm all of this. I really appreciate your input.
I wish I had more time to pursue some of these interesting questions.
This paragraph and the link are being emailed right away to my former boss, the head of the internal medicine depts and the former head of the infectious disease unit in a Jerusalem hospital.
Lastly, I'm including a link below which contains an abstract (577 An assay system for probiotic lactic acid bacteria recognizing human blood type A-antigen that competitively excludes harmful intestinal bacteria) that I'm going to look into further. Thought you might be interested, as well.
This is what I need. Nothing else and nobody else can do this for me. I'll listen to this every morning - part 1 before breakfast.
He replied briefly with a thank you, and that he and his team are of course very familiar with the subject. Quite dismissive.Thanks for the update, yaeli. It will be equally interesting to hear from you this person's reply.
Once daily. (book2)This is what I need. Nothing else and nobody else can do this for me. I'll listen to this every morning - part 1 before breakfast
listen to this conor ...
He replied briefly with a thank you, and that he and his team are of course very familiar with the subject. Quite dismissive .... Actually, I just utter the shortened version: "Send", and people know the rest.
(pray)(pray)(pray)However, it does occur to me that maybe more Israeli allopathic doctors are better versed in protocols such as this than their U.S. counterparts (e.g., how I've found that, in Europe, allopathy and naturopathy can co-exist less antagonistically than is so often the case in the U.S.).