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BTD Forums  /  SWAMI Xpress  /  Vicious circle of so called medicine
Posted by: Jumari, Friday, April 6, 2012, 10:03pm
A few months ago my Mother fainted and was hospitalized for a few days. Since then her doctor has prescribed Warfarin as an anticoagulant. She is also taking 4 other tablets daily along with it. Since taking Warfarin she has developed symptoms resembling IBS (Irritable Bowel Syndrome) and is now taking more pills for the side effects. She has had a nasty chest cold for the last few days but is not allowed to take antibiotics or cold and flu tablets as it might interfere with her other medication. I just recently read that warfarin was developed as Rat poison / pesticide and is still being used as such. See link below.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warfarin

Her doctor has also forbidden her from drinking Cranberry juice and ginger, among other things. My guess is that ginger is a natural anticoagulant which would interfere with the synthetic Warfarin. I was going to recommend that she take garlic tablets, vitamin C, zinc and Echinacea but I wonder whether that would interfere with the medication.

How I wish I could just stop her from taking her medication and replace them with natural foods, supplements and holistic remedies.  But unfortunately I am not a qualified practitioner. I was wondering if anyone might have some advice for me or suggestions on how to better deal with this situation. Her bloodtype is A+, either a teacher or explorer like myself.



Posted by: Possum, Friday, April 6, 2012, 10:18pm; Reply: 1
Your poor Mother (& you) I applaud your title!! Absolutely the case - my own Mother used to joke about this... but really it is not a joke is it??!!
Warfarin as rat poison?? :o MotherinLaw & BrotherinLaw are on the evil stuff too & MinL particularly has all sorts of trouble with other foods, especially certain vegs ::) Pretty sure they are both O types too, so no real need for blood thinners for them...
Sorry, no advice, but sure garlic would be out as it is blood thinner...??) Best I could advise would be for her to stay right away from dairy, wheat & sugars while sick... :-/ ;)
Posted by: greenman, Friday, April 6, 2012, 10:21pm; Reply: 2
Yes We have all suffered the woes of modern medicine...sometimes you get a flippant reply stating
'well it's keeping you alive'
check out this thread as there are alot of good links in it:
http://www.dadamo.com/cgi-bin/Blah/Blah.pl?m-1299864435/s-9/#num9

My mother had the same problems with fainting.. they just kept throwing different meds at her instead of looking for the reason for the fainting..faint means the bp goes low amongst other issues...Why?? there are loads of reasons dehydration, kidney problems etc try and get every test under the sun carried out..Find out why it happened..if they don't know the why? then how to prevent it again is very difficult

I found that the docs here seemed to think certain age.. therefore warfarin..
If it is a heart problem get her checked for other alternatives.. a second opinion from a good openminded cardiologist may be a good idea

If the doc is persistent with warfarin check out if there is a better solution.. I was told that there was a better solution being produced but don't know if it happened yet..

The best of luck to you and hope that your mother recovers soon
Posted by: PCUK-Positive, Friday, April 6, 2012, 10:36pm; Reply: 3
I had a blood clot a while ago and they tried to give me all the stuff, I refused to be sucked in to the medical gravy chain, so I ate well (compliantly) drank water with lots of lemon in it and walked a lot. I'm still careful about stuff but i feel as if my leg is improving. I think it was about a year ago.

haven't had any drugs for around 3 and less and less over the last 7 years -  never felt fresher.

touching several bits of wood.

Perhaps the thing to do would be to eat compliantly and let the doctor adjust her dose as her blood naturally normalises - or have a consult with a practitioner.
Posted by: Possum, Friday, April 6, 2012, 10:41pm; Reply: 4
Quoted from greenman
My mother had the same problems with fainting.. they just kept throwing different meds at her instead of looking for the reason for the fainting..faint means the bp goes low amongst other issues...Why?? there are loads of reasons dehydration, kidney problems etc try and get every test under the sun carried out..Find out why it happened..if they don't know the why? then how to prevent it again is very difficult
Yeah that reminded me my FatherinLaw kept fainting & getting dizzy & I researched the side effects of the huge list of things he was on & suggested something in particular that may have been causing it....Of course I wasn't a Dr (& worse was the DaughterinLaw), even though his own wife had wondered same things ::) He would only listen to the medical profession, yet they were the ones experimenting on him??!! Must be that same brainwashed generation??!! Eventually Dr's did agree it might have been the wrong meds for him & hello, no more dizziness ::) ??)
Posted by: Lola, Saturday, April 7, 2012, 12:02am; Reply: 5
make her follow her guidelines for life!
find out her status

find out all you can about her individuality

apply the protocols......eventually a swami......

how old is your mom>

she might be a bit older than me, no?

get her health back in line
teach her all the ins and outs
Posted by: ABJoe, Saturday, April 7, 2012, 1:00am; Reply: 6
If you are able to reduce the avoid foods and replace them with beneficial or even neutral foods, it has to help.  Do as much as you can do - especially if your Mom is willing to have your help.

I think it is important to listen to warnings about interaction with drugs, so I take them seriously.  I would just work to not need them anymore.
Posted by: greenman, Saturday, April 7, 2012, 10:09am; Reply: 7
Jumari just another thought..
if you have a good chemist/pharmacist they should have a computer program which they put all the medications into the program and they are immediately red flagged if there is a conflict between the medications...that is what happened a few times with my mother, after seeing the consultant (yes Consultant!!) with a new prescription the new pharmacist refused the meds to us because of conflicts and red flags in system

quiz the doctor as to why she is on the medications..I found the older my mother got she was just intent on following what the docs said without question...question them as thats what they are paid for.

Hope evrything goes well for your mother
Posted by: Jumari, Saturday, April 7, 2012, 10:12am; Reply: 8
I can not thank you all enough.

Possum I love your sense of humour and thanks for sharing.

Greenman...I love this line...."I found that the docs here seemed to think certain age.. therefore warfarin"...So very true...Unfortunately my mother doesn't even know what a naturopath is...so how or why would she take their word on anything. I tried to explain to her that naturopaths are more like scientists who delve deeper into the DNA of it all and prescribe food and natural substances to improve health and cure diseases instead of synthetic man made un-natural drugs. Doctors are just drug pushers. Not all some care...maybe 1%.

Policy maker I admire your courage and conviction but you chose to take that chance without the meds, I on the other hand can only advise her, she has to in the end chose for herself.

Lola my Mother is 83, I doubt she is as old as you. She still gets in front of the TV to do her advanced Zumba steps once or twice a week.

You know when you really look at the bottom line it comes down to money. Being healthy can be expensive. I just saw a big Mcdonalds poster with a picture of large french fries and an equal symbol to say that it costs $1. Soon after seeing that, my partner and I bought an uncooked organic  whole chicken for $17. The free range version was next to it for $12 and the one with no labels was next to that one for $8. We both looked at each other and said "It's so easy to be unhealthy and not give a expletive deleted isn't it, being good costs money".


In the end it is risky business because if she follows my advice and then has an attack or worse, its all on my shoulders.

AB Joe she wants to believe me but I have no real credentials or proof that it will work.

Thanks again everyone....very helpful indeed...

Posted by: Dianne, Saturday, April 7, 2012, 11:01am; Reply: 9
Quoted from Jumari
I can not thank you all enough.


You know when you really look at the bottom line it comes down to money. Being healthy can be expensive. I just saw a big Mcdonalds poster with a picture of large french fries and an equal symbol to say that it costs $1. Soon after seeing that, my partner and I bought an uncooked organic  whole chicken for $17. The free range version was next to it for $12 and the one with no labels was next to that one for $8. We both looked at each other and said "It's so easy to be unhealthy and not give a expletive deleted isn't it, being good costs money".




This is a sad and unfortunate truth that it does come down to money and being healthy can be expensive. Also, last year food went up 30%, which requires even more creativity in the kitchen and stretching of our dollars. I opt to buy my own compliant beans to soak, sprout and cook  and freeze a month's worth for myself. I was brought up to be very frugal and to not waste food. Leftovers that don't look as if they will get eaten in time go into the freezer in a large container and then I make a hodge-podge soup with it once a month. It is tasty and never the same, but we love it. I once bought a book called : "The Frugal Gourmet" that had great ideas.  :-/

Posted by: Spring, Saturday, April 7, 2012, 12:51pm; Reply: 10
This site set up by a doctor is very helpful to me: http://www.pilladvised.com
I have all my supplements entered there and any time a drug is prescribed for me, which is very seldom, I enter it to see if there is any conflict. There are also suggestions about which supplements complement each other. I have found it to be very helpful in many ways. It hasn't led me wrong yet.
Posted by: Goldie, Saturday, April 7, 2012, 1:19pm; Reply: 11
Here is what I wrote on the subject in the thread title..

'A gripe about prescriptions use and instructions'

but for my friend who takes all those pills I listed, it only became visible after they where entered in a  spread sheet.. Then it became crystal clear..

I feel for you and your mom,

.... and then there are States that ould not even allow you to talk about foods and diets unless you are a certified person to do so.. who then has to adhere to thelicencing rules or lose her licence as Nutritionist.

T
Quoted Text
his site set up by a doctor is very helpful to me: http://www.pilladvised.com
I have all my supplements entered there and any time a drug is prescribed for me, which is very seldom, I enter it to see if there is any conflict. There are also suggestions about which supplements complement each other. I have found it to be very helpful in many ways. It hasn't led me wrong yet.


Thanks Spring.. This could save lives. :)
Posted by: ABJoe, Saturday, April 7, 2012, 4:20pm; Reply: 12
Quoted from Jumari
AB Joe she wants to believe me but I have no real credentials or proof that it will work.

I know this feeling...  I went through this with my mom and dad.  Mom cooks for dad, who is sick and I talked to her about eliminating chicken from his diet to stop strokes...  She wanted to, but he kept asking for chicken.  After about the 3rd mini stroke, and me asking what meat did he have for the last 2 days, she got the connection.  It has now been almost a year without chicken (and stroke symptoms) and he is reacting to other avoids in his diet, which tells me we have moved up 1 small step.  Mom is now going to remove all of his major avoid foods...  

Sometimes progress is slow, but we do what we can...
Posted by: tjw6150, Saturday, April 7, 2012, 4:40pm; Reply: 13
ABJoe, you must be congratulated on your gentle persistence with your parents. I know how hard it is to change habits.  I'm an O+ and just returned from my parents' home in Oregon. My dad has Parkinsons' (he's an O+ too) and has lost his appetite completely.  He almost never eats veggies but does on occasion when I'm there to cook for him. Mom (A) has cooked for him for over 60 years and quite understandably is tired of trying to get him to eat veggies.  He drinks Ensure for protein and cannot tolerate chewing meat.  He is wasting away; therapist says he is in fasting mode and must eat but he doesn't.  They both poo-poo my BTD ways.  For this last trip, I walked into the house to the aroma of fresh baked chocolate chip cookies (so not an O compliant treat) which is one of my weakest points.  I did eat a few cookies but felt awful afterward.  I went out with my DH and we brought home fresh veggies (lots of them) along with organic lamb and fruits, etc.  I cooked my O breakfast for everyone and they all loved it or so I thought.  The next morning, my brother asked me to help him fix a breakfast, "without all those veggies, yuck!"  Like father like son?  I wouldn't wish Parkinsons' on anyone, much less my own brother.  
My DH is so easy-going (O) and he puts up with all my food experiments.  I've been through ALL of them including Ayurveda!  Except Vegan and Vegetarian - I absolutely knew that I had to have meat so I skipped that experiment.  I keep trying to influence my family since I started adopting the BTD over 10 years ago (?).  It's always in the background when I try to change things up a bit.  Lately Paleo has been in my repertoire as well but it is so close to O diet that it's easy to accommodate.
Whew!  I better stop now - it's getting too rambly!  Have a great day everyone!
Posted by: Spring, Saturday, April 7, 2012, 4:45pm; Reply: 14
Quoted from ABJoe

I know this feeling...  I went through this with my mom and dad.  Mom cooks for dad, who is sick and I talked to her about eliminating chicken from his diet to stop strokes...  She wanted to, but he kept asking for chicken.  After about the 3rd mini stroke, and me asking what meat did he have for the last 2 days, she got the connection.  It has now been almost a year without chicken (and stroke symptoms) and he is reacting to other avoids in his diet, which tells me we have moved up 1 small step.  Mom is now going to remove all of his major avoid foods...  

Sometimes progress is slow, but we do what we can...

It is a wonderful feeling when you see the light come on, isn't it!?
Posted by: shoulderblade, Saturday, April 7, 2012, 8:03pm; Reply: 15
Quoted from Dianne


This is a sad and unfortunate truth that it does come down to money and being healthy can be expensive. Also, last year food went up 30%, which requires even more creativity in the kitchen and stretching of our dollars. I opt to buy my own compliant beans to soak, sprout and cook  and freeze a month's worth for myself. I was brought up to be very frugal and to not waste food. Leftovers that don't look as if they will get eaten in time go into the freezer in a large container and then I make a hodge-podge soup with it once a month. It is tasty and never the same, but we love it. I once bought a book called : "The Frugal Gourmet" that had great ideas.  :-/



This is true but I think eventually you have to start looking elsewhere in the budget to make up the difference. It is not really so much that it is expensive but rather that industrial food is so cheap. I read an article once that claimed that on a cost related to disposable income food in US/Canada was the cheapest in the world. US/Canada was about 8% whereas in Japan (the only other country mentioned) it was 25%.

Low prices here are due to mechanization, fertilizers, pesticides, Gm foods etc. but produce the results you want to avoid. Better quality is available but I think you have to prioritize it by cutting elsewhere. Returning the balance to a better equilibrium, so to speak.

Posted by: Possum, Saturday, April 7, 2012, 11:14pm; Reply: 16
Quoted from ABJoe
It has now been almost a year without chicken (and stroke symptoms) and he is reacting to other avoids in his diet, which tells me we have moved up 1 small step.  Mom is now going to remove all of his major avoid foods...  Sometimes progress is slow, but we do what we can..
Well done for your persistence ABJoe  ;)
I hate how in the nursing home where my Mother is, that she is fed white bread cheese sandwhiches at night...They get a reasonable midday meal, but the diet in general, is way too glutonised...with a carb based breakfast (of course) I am sure they are charging enough to provide better nutrition ::)
An ex colleague commented once too, on seeing the chemist returning after making his deliveries to a local nursing home..."you could see him rubbing his hands with glee"

Posted by: Joyce, Sunday, April 8, 2012, 8:01am; Reply: 17
Hi Jumari,

I haven't read the other replies to your question, but instead of warfarin I use nattokinase, with the blessing of my doc.

Loads of info on here: http://www.afibbers.net/forum/list.php?9
username is affibbers, pw is 2sesame, simply to keep spammers out....not private as such.

Try the 'conference room' button for immediate info on NK and if you decide to buy it, make sure you are getting the NSK-SD form.

eg Nattokinase (Jarrow Formula - Highly effective natural anticoagulant - NSK-SD form        
Nattokinase (Nutricology) - Highly effective natural anticoagulant - NSK - SD form

I don't know whether these are available in Australia, but I'm sure some Aussies on the afib forum do use it - try http://www.iherb.com

Joyce
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