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Posted by: marjorie, Wednesday, February 8, 2012, 10:13pm
Does anyone measure protein portions in grams for the day?

For someone who weighs 115, 5'3 ( myself) what would be an ideal number for grams of protein?.

o negative
Posted by: Lola, Wednesday, February 8, 2012, 10:58pm; Reply: 1
follow the frequency values and sizes best

palm of your hand.....

it has been ages since I ve used a scale in anything!!!
not even for cooking......I know, I am incorrigible!!! haha
Posted by: grey rabbit, Wednesday, February 8, 2012, 11:15pm; Reply: 2
If you are not very active then .8g/kg body weight, in your case about 42g a day. If you are very active, increase that to 1g/kg and up to 2g/kg for serious athletes. These are recommended amounts, I would certainly follow your swami.
Posted by: marjorie, Thursday, February 9, 2012, 12:05am; Reply: 3
Quoted from grey rabbit
If you are not very active then .8g/kg body weight, in your case about 42g a day. If you are very active, increase that to 1g/kg and up to 2g/kg for serious athletes. These are recommended amounts, I would certainly follow your swami.


I am very active, sometimes 2x a day. Typically, one hour 6 days a week.

so, in my case, how many grams??? like 80?
Posted by: marjorie, Thursday, February 9, 2012, 12:07am; Reply: 4
Quoted from Lola
follow the frequency values and sizes best

palm of your hand.....

it has been ages since I ve used a scale in anything!!!
not even for cooking......I know, I am incorrigible!!! haha



well, you are an inspiration to me, my dear. I am going to really try to stick to these portions, but I think my stomach started getting used to bigger portions.. I know I do not need to eat the way I was..no wonder I was putting on the pounds.

now, I know.

what about the probiotic?
Posted by: grey rabbit, Thursday, February 9, 2012, 12:15am; Reply: 5
what kind of active? Think of it this way, an olympic athlete, or a professional ball player probably needs 2g/kg a day. A recreational athlete may need about 1.5g/kg a day. myself, at 5'8" and 130 find that I like a little more protein, about 1.2g/kg, and I do consider myself pretty active. (BTW lbs./2.2 = kg)
Posted by: Christopher1, Thursday, February 9, 2012, 12:23am; Reply: 6
Eat as much protein as you want as an O. Your body has a natural appetite switch for protein and will tell you to stop eating it. If you eat more than your body craves, you end up producing ammonia. Not so good.
Posted by: grey rabbit, Thursday, February 9, 2012, 12:39am; Reply: 7
Quoted from Christopher1
Eat as much protein as you want as an O. Your body has a natural appetite switch for protein and will tell you to stop eating it. If you eat more than your body craves, you end up producing ammonia. Not so good.


This is fine if you know how to listen to your body, if not, it is too easy to eat too much protein and then you will produce an excess of ketones, and mess up your insulin response.

Make sure you are eating the recommended amount of veggies and fruits, then there won't be room to eat too much protein  ;D
Posted by: marjorie, Thursday, February 9, 2012, 4:04am; Reply: 8
I am active by endurance training 3 or 4 times a week with weights, squats intervals

cardio- kickboxing, runnning, aerobics about 2 or 3 times a week


so, looks like I could be perfectly fine on 70 protein. Geez, I think I was doubling that for a while, I was eating alot.. filling up on protein instead of carbs.

I think the digestive issues were not so much the meat or protein, I figured out what was making me feel so heavy.

Now, I just need to start listening to my body and stop eating when I am truly full.

Amazing how  my body will lose 5 pounds easily as soon as I cut back on portions. Seems so easy, but I was getting used to eating larger meals even though people keep telling me I look thinner and like I am losing weight. The opposite is true, I actually was gaining weight.
Posted by: Spring, Thursday, February 9, 2012, 4:22am; Reply: 9
I see to it that I get at least 60 grams per day. If I don't, I don't feel balanced. On the other hand, I don't want too much, either, because I feel gorged if I do. And it seems rather pointless anyway.
Posted by: grey rabbit, Thursday, February 9, 2012, 1:21pm; Reply: 10
Any protein that your body does not need to repair muscles will be stored as fat, no way around it. The body will use glucose first for fuel (you have about 2,500 kcal storage when fully loaded), then say in a marathon situation, will turn to fat and last resort (starvation) is to use protein for fuel. Regular exercise like you are talking about is not likely to drain your glucose stores unless you neglect to re-build them. So you really just need enough protein to re-build muscles, muscles are always a little damaged, micro tears, every time you exercise.
Posted by: Spring, Thursday, February 9, 2012, 2:58pm; Reply: 11

Any protein that your body does not need to repair muscles will be stored as fat, no way around it.


Very true, and that is the reason I don't want to eat too much. But I would not have the strength to work on the projects I do if I did not eat enough protein. Fruits and veggies just don't give me enough lasting strength. I am a very strong woman for my size and age, and I use every bit of it more times than I probably should! (smile) It is funny, but people are shocked to see me in action! And most of them can't begin to keep up with me! But I like to think of it as making hay while the sun shines because I know that the time is limited that I will be this active.
Posted by: marjorie, Thursday, February 9, 2012, 5:18pm; Reply: 12
Thanks everyone. I appreciate your comments.

I still feel like I dont know how much in grams would work best.
Posted by: Spring, Thursday, February 9, 2012, 5:25pm; Reply: 13
Marjorie, I think you will just have to listen to your body and try different amounts until you get it right. Protein isn't something that doesn't show results pretty quickly. I have learned through the years to know exactly when I need to add a little or take a little away. Do your portion sizes of the various proteins not work for you? I can't remember if you have done SWAMI or not, but you actually enter a general amount of exercise you get, and you can even enter the portion size you want, etc.
Posted by: Victoria, Thursday, February 9, 2012, 8:02pm; Reply: 14
Quoted from marjorie

I still feel like I dont know how much in grams would work best.

70 grams for an active person like yourself is not an unreasonable amount.  It seems like a great level for you to aim for at this time and give it enough time to see how your body is feeling/responding.  

You can always go up or down from there, but don't jump around. Just try it and adjust later on if needed.
Posted by: akolley, Thursday, February 9, 2012, 9:32pm; Reply: 15
Where do you store your weight when you do put it on?  Stomach, you need to keep protein higher (and that does not mean high fat ), and carbs lower (not ultra low).  Insulin is a carb responce and that is the love handles.  You have to gage by the mirror.  For an "o", very unlikely that you would feel your best at a low level of protein as an "A" might. Fat is more of a balance act as to if u are a hunter(higher fat) or gatherer(lower fat), in my opinion.   ;)
Posted by: marjorie, Friday, February 10, 2012, 3:48pm; Reply: 16
Quoted from akolley
Where do you store your weight when you do put it on?  Stomach, you need to keep protein higher (and that does not mean high fat ), and carbs lower (not ultra low).  Insulin is a carb responce and that is the love handles.  You have to gage by the mirror.  For an "o", very unlikely that you would feel your best at a low level of protein as an "A" might. Fat is more of a balance act as to if u are a hunter(higher fat) or gatherer(lower fat), in my opinion.   ;)


Hey there

Thanks for your thoughts.

I put it in my stomach but sometimes in my chest.

anyhow, No love handles. I had alot of beef yesterday, I today I felt like my stomach went back to normal after my workout.

Maybe intermittant fasting would be nice, or perhaps 115 is an ok weight for me. This is my struggle, why am I trying to lose weight?? Must be more to the story here.
Posted by: Mother, Friday, February 10, 2012, 11:27pm; Reply: 17
would that calculation be for all protein, including animal AND vegetable, or just for animal?
Posted by: akolley, Friday, February 10, 2012, 11:55pm; Reply: 18
Because I do not eat any grains right now, and limit my fruit to 1-2 servings/day,I have to get my calories from somewhere.  So I do my body weight in protein (yes pounds), and the rest veg and some fats.  I feel good and am able to control my appetite better this way.  A big breakfast is def the key for me. I can easily have a runaway appetite. Lean red meat feels the best for me and is satisfying, where fish is not.  Chicken is yummy but tends to not hold me as long as lean red meat does. Eggs are yummy but am hungry very quickly.  I do not eat beans.  Good luck, just go with it.  You are your bestest expert! 8)  
Posted by: grey rabbit, Saturday, February 11, 2012, 1:04am; Reply: 19
Quoted from Mother
would that calculation be for all protein, including animal AND vegetable, or just for animal?


That is for all protein, if you are only getting protein from veggie sources, they need to balance out to make a complete protein, like beans and rice. But yes, protein is protein and will be digested by the body as such no matter what the source.
Posted by: Mother, Saturday, February 11, 2012, 2:16am; Reply: 20
Thank You Grey Rabbit. I have recently cut WAY back on my protein and it has made a huge difference in my appetite. I used to be hungry ALL the time ands now I have to remind myself to eat. I'm doing about 65-70g protein divided into 3 meals so it's about 2 oz a meal of animal protein and the rest is veg and nuts. I have had to up my fat as I am low carb as well but this seems to be the missing piece in my puzzle. All I heard was O's are high protein and you can't eat too much. Well I'm here to say 'yes, you sure can'. LOL. I just want to make sure I'm getting enough as I need all the muscle I have. I'm tall and thin and don't want to get too skinny.
Posted by: Possum, Saturday, February 11, 2012, 2:35am; Reply: 21
Quoted from grey rabbit
it is too easy to eat too much protein and then you will produce an excess of ketones, and mess up your insulin response.
Can someone please explain how this happens & what exactly does happen? I can eat protein all day & not lose, but as as soon as I introduce fat &/or vegs or nuts, it seems to help the weight move...Ta
Posted by: ABJoe, Saturday, February 11, 2012, 3:13am; Reply: 22
Quoted from Possum
Can someone please explain how this happens & what exactly does happen?

Here is the paragraph from Wikipedia discussing excess protein intake, although I don't see the same terms as GR used, so don't know if this answers your question:
Quoted Text
When a high dietary protein intake is consumed, there is an increase in urea excretion, which suggests that amino acid oxidation is increased.[15] High levels of protein intake increase the activity of branched-chain ketoacid dehydrogenase.[15] As a result, oxidation is facilitated, and the amino group of the amino acid is excreted to the liver.[15] This process suggests that excess protein consumption results in protein oxidation and that the protein is excreted.[15] The body is unable to store excess protein.[15][20] Protein is digested into amino acids, which enter the bloodstream. Excess amino acids are converted to other usable molecules by the liver in a process called deamination. Deamination converts nitrogen from the amino acid into ammonia, which is converted by the liver into urea in the urea cycle. Excretion of urea is performed by the kidneys. These organs can normally cope with any extra workload, but, if kidney disease occurs, a decrease in protein will often be prescribed.[21] Furthermore, as noted, protein provides the body with 4 calories per gram, and when there is excess protein intake, the body will utilize as much of it for energy as possible.[2] After that stage, the body will produce fat from the excess protein, turning it into fat cells.[2] On the other hand, if people do not eat enough calories, body protein and protein from the food will be utilized for energy.[2] This is not ideal as the main function of protein is to maintain muscle mass.[2] Finally, when food protein intake is periodically high or low, the body tries to keep protein levels at an equilibrium by using the “labile protein reserve", which serves as a short-term protein store to be used for emergencies or daily variations in protein intake.[3] However, that reserve is not utilized as longer-term storage for future needs.[3]

Many researchers have also found that excessive intake of protein increases calcium excretion in urine.[3] It has been thought that this occurs to maintain the pH imbalance from the oxidation of sulfur amino acids.[3] Also, it is inconclusive whether bone resorption contributes to bone loss and osteoporosis.[3] However, it is also found that a regular intake of calcium would be able to stabilize this loss.[3]

Another issue arising from overconsumption of protein is a higher risk of kidney stone formation from calcium in the renal circulatory system.[3] It has been found that high animal protein intake in healthy individuals increases the probability of forming kidney stones by 250 percent.[3]

Posted by: Possum, Saturday, February 11, 2012, 3:40am; Reply: 23
Ta ABJoe - these two sentences appear to be contradictory??!! "The body is unable to store excess protein" &
"...when there is excess protein intake, the body will utilize as much of it for energy as possible.[2] After that stage, the body will produce fat from the excess protein, turning it into fat cells."
& yet at the same time I can lose weight if I add fat to that intake???
Posted by: Mother, Saturday, February 11, 2012, 4:10am; Reply: 24
yes, definately on the fat. since I cut way back on protein, eat low carb and added more 'good' fats, I am losing weight and actually don't necissarily want to. MY excess protein was being converted to blood sugar and it was starting to creep up. Since this change my blood sugar is perfect. (low to mid 70's fasting and rarely goes above 120. It USED to be in the 90's fasting and in the 130's during the day, sometimes i tich higher, especially after a large serving of protein. High protein can keep insulin high because protein usually makes blood sugar peek in 3 hours. That is my understanding and I have seen it in me. I could never understand why my BS was getting higher with low carb and high protein, now I know, at least in my body.
Posted by: grey rabbit, Saturday, February 11, 2012, 1:36pm; Reply: 25
Quoted from Possum
Ta ABJoe - these two sentences appear to be contradictory??!! "The body is unable to store excess protein" &
"...when there is excess protein intake, the body will utilize as much of it for energy as possible.[2] After that stage, the body will produce fat from the excess protein, turning it into fat cells."
& yet at the same time I can lose weight if I add fat to that intake???


It can get pretty confusing Possum, the body cannot store protein as protein, so it either excretes it or it turns it into something that it can store, fat. The article is pretty good, thanks Joe, but it's not a simple process, it involves a bit of an understanding of physiology or bio chem to really get the picture. I'd try to find a good balance, good fats are very important. Try keeping track of exactly how much protein you are eating for about three average days, then you might be able to see what's going on.
Posted by: akolley, Saturday, February 11, 2012, 6:39pm; Reply: 26
Some are better fat burning o's (ketogenic),  usually Hunters.  Gatherers and Explorers probably do not do so well on Keto.  Our individuality shines through in terms of Ketogenic.  If you are a good fat burner you can go lower protein and carb and do very well.  Carb burners have a very hard time accessing keto fuel and therefore feel really sluggish on a keto diet and generally will not lose weight.  Cuz their body will not switch at the liver level.  Ketogenisis is not ketoacidosis.  Do not be fooled.  Can you argue with the traditional diet of the Inuits.  Do you think they got it wrong because a doctor did not advise them on a "Healthy" diet.  Look at the population now that they have been introduced to carbs, diabetes and heart disease like crazy.  Plains Indians= same outcome. Keto genic diets have been around since after the first sunrise. 8)
Posted by: Mother, Saturday, February 11, 2012, 8:04pm; Reply: 27
ketosis works very well for me, as a hunter. It always has. I struggled after I upped my protein until I realized THAT was my problem. All is well now
Posted by: marjorie, Sunday, February 12, 2012, 12:13am; Reply: 28
Quoted from ABJoe

Here is the paragraph from Wikipedia discussing excess protein intake, although I don't see the same terms as GR used, so don't know if this answers your question:



Thanks for the knowledge.
Posted by: marjorie, Sunday, February 12, 2012, 12:16am; Reply: 29
Quoted from akolley
Some are better fat burning o's (ketogenic),  usually Hunters.  Gatherers and Explorers probably do not do so well on Keto.  Our individuality shines through in terms of Ketogenic.  If you are a good fat burner you can go lower protein and carb and do very well.  Carb burners have a very hard time accessing keto fuel and therefore feel really sluggish on a keto diet and generally will not lose weight.  Cuz their body will not switch at the liver level.  Ketogenisis is not ketoacidosis.  Do not be fooled.  Can you argue with the traditional diet of the Inuits.  Do you think they got it wrong because a doctor did not advise them on a "Healthy" diet.  Look at the population now that they have been introduced to carbs, diabetes and heart disease like crazy.  Plains Indians= same outcome. Keto genic diets have been around since after the first sunrise. 8)


Ketosis works best for me as well. As a hunter, if I am not in ketosis, I feel "blurred and not clear"

I was wondering why my body was not staying in a state of ketosis with all the protein I was eating?I was overdoing it and it was becoming counterproductive.
Thanks!
Posted by: Possum, Sunday, February 12, 2012, 12:21am; Reply: 30
Quoted from grey rabbit
It can get pretty confusing Possum, the body cannot store protein as protein, so it either excretes it or it turns it into something that it can store, fat. The article is pretty good, thanks Joe, but it's not a simple process, it involves a bit of an understanding of physiology or bio chem to really get the picture. I'd try to find a good balance, good fats are very important. Try keeping track of exactly how much protein you are eating for about three average days, then you might be able to see what's going on.
Thanks grey rabbit, for helping a possum out :D

Posted by: Mother, Sunday, February 12, 2012, 1:48am; Reply: 31
Marjorie, I hear you. I was overeating it too and as soon as I downsized, I immediately lost weight and my hunger is far more manageable. I was ALWAYS hungry and now just a bit in the morning and sometimes I have to remind myself to eat. Before, I was constantly looking at the clock and holding off. Now the problem is more what to eat. Low carb, low protein and higher fat doesn't leave alot of options. I seem to eat the same things over and over again. Nuts are great but too many is not so great. Avocado is out, so is coconut oil. What's left for fat besides olive oil? Lots of salads for me...

It was also causing slightly higher blood sugar, I sure don't need that!
Posted by: lann1958, Sunday, February 12, 2012, 2:16am; Reply: 32
this is all very confusing! some posts say os can eat all the protein they want, otheres say limit. from all ive ever known lower carbs and higher protein made you loose weight and kept your blood sugar low. but i have been having issues with that, i started this way of eating because of high blood sugar a wonderful side affect of loosing weight happened and now i dont want to gain any, im up a coupl of pounds ans have been having difficulty getting it off. also my blood sugar fluctuates at times, maybe there is something to the thought that im eating too much protein. i will cut my protein some and see if it helps my weight and blood sugar. so glad there is this forum. i really need to get all the info i can
Posted by: Victoria, Sunday, February 12, 2012, 2:39am; Reply: 33
lann,
The more personalized programs that Marjorie, Possum and Mother and some of the others are following, breaks the blood type O diet down into more specific diets for their own unique "Genotype".

You might want to start by doing some more reading on this topic:
http://www.dadamo.com/which_diet_is_right.htm

http://www.dadamo.com/knowbase/newbie/1.htm

http://www.dadamo.com/media/gtd.htm
Posted by: Lola, Sunday, February 12, 2012, 2:44am; Reply: 34
Iann, go back to basics.......repeat the steps you were following at the very beginning.....write a log to help monitor your success

at times we start getting overconfident only to watch those pounds climb back up again

Posted by: Mother, Sunday, February 12, 2012, 3:37am; Reply: 35
Iann, I too heard over and over again, everywhere, that high protein diets lower blood sugar. As I stated my BS was creeping up so I ate more protein. Recently to research, 'excess protein' raises BS and insulin. Protein peaks glucose at around 3 hours  and carbs around 1. So if you eat every 3 hours or so, your BS never goes back down. I read the Rosedale Diet and his info on leptin, closely related to insulin, and applied his theory and 'way of eating' with my blood type foods and everything is wonderful. My fasting BS was in the 90's and now consistently in the 70's. Random daytime are rarely, if ever over 120. I split my smaller amounts of protein up throughout the day and fill in with veggies and fats.

Victoria and Lola are right. Go back to basics. Look at the amount of protein recommended per week and divide it by 7 days in the week and then divide again into the number of times you eat during the day. I eat 4 smaller meals a day and according to my recommended animal proteins, that gives me about 2-2.5 ounces per meal, barely anything actually. ceratinly way less than I was eating.

maybe research 'leptin', that's what helped me understand it all. Once your leptin is regulated, so will your insulin.
Posted by: akolley, Sunday, February 12, 2012, 3:26pm; Reply: 36
http://jackkruse.com/my-leptin-prescription/
This Doctor is the bomb on leptin issues. ;D
Posted by: Mother, Sunday, February 12, 2012, 3:38pm; Reply: 37
yes I have read his stuff. However, I cannot eat 50-75g protein in one sitting no matter how hungry I am and I need to eat more frequently, though very small.( i have found the larger my meals, the hungrier I am) I found the Rosedale Diet approach more condusive to me. he recommends small more frequent meals containing low carbs, 15-20g protein at each meal spread throughout the day (grams determined by approx 1/2 your body weight) and high fat. This approach works for me and stabalizes my blood sugar, but thanks for the link:)
Posted by: akolley, Sunday, February 12, 2012, 3:43pm; Reply: 38
I being more gatherer, tried his approach.  Yes the cravings went, but the high fat made me soo sleepy and sluggish. I could not get into the zone that all of you true hunters talk about. Major brain fog to.  But have some friends who are doing really well on his program. I have been doing the meal timing and that has helped with sleep. 8)  His other articles are very informative.
Posted by: Mother, Sunday, February 12, 2012, 6:04pm; Reply: 39
yes Akolley, I do like his site. I am trying to keep my protein around 65-70g so eating it all in one meal won't work. I sometimes find it hard to get all that fat in too and feel good so I guess I just don't. It's not too hard if I have 2 salads a day with 1T EVOO and then some nuts but sometimes....
I understand the Gatherer thing. My daughter is a Gatherer and doesn't do well on high fat. She likes leaner meats, and vegetables (so do I, I love fish) and fruit but she eats WAY more carbs than me. I CANNOT, no matter how hard I try, get her off that gluten free junk. She'll figure it out eventually.
Posted by: akolley, Sunday, February 12, 2012, 8:10pm; Reply: 40
http://www.wheatbellyblog.com/  Maybe she would read this book or at least read some of his blogs.  And eventually Mom will be smart again!  Someday at least. :B
Posted by: Mother, Sunday, February 12, 2012, 11:15pm; Reply: 41
She is gluten free, just not gluten free food free. She loves her Gf waffels that are full of junk. I have the book, actually bought it while visiting her in Texas! Thanks for the link.
Posted by: ruthiegirl, Monday, February 13, 2012, 12:27am; Reply: 42
We're all individuals. Some O's can do very well on high protein diets, and don't need to worry about eating too much meat- for them, there's no such thing. Other individuals need to watch the meat portions- eating too much meat leads to weight gain and/or cravings.

It may take some trial and error to figure out what works best for you personally. A good place to start is with the portion size and frequency reccomendations in whichever food list you're currently following. SWAMI will give portions tailored to your size, since height and weight are two of the things you enter.

If you're using one of the books, which gives a range of portion sizes, use the lower end of the range if you're small and the larger end of the range if you're big. A very large person (say, a man 7 feet tall) may need bigger portions than the largest end of the range, while a petite 4'8" tall woman may need to eat just under it. Use some common sense. If you're 5'2" tall and eating the maximum portions, you're probably eating too much.

Give Dr D's reccomendations a try for a few weeks before you do any tweaking. There's no need to re-invent the wheel.
Posted by: akolley, Monday, February 13, 2012, 7:11pm; Reply: 43
keytones are only produced by fat, not protein.  protein can supply the brain and other organs with needed glucose through gluconeogenises if protein is present in a low carb diet.  protein does not produce keytones.
Posted by: Mother, Monday, February 13, 2012, 9:47pm; Reply: 44
correct, but isn't it true that if you over eat protein, 58% will turn to glucose inhibiting ketones? That's why ketogenic diets are low carb, adequate protein and higher fat, no? That is my understanding and I believe thta was what was happening in my case. I was also VLC but not in ketosis and my blood sugar was creeping up
Posted by: akolley, Tuesday, February 14, 2012, 12:38am; Reply: 45
Mother - that is correct.  I was trying to help sift through some of the confusion from other posters.  You are a perfect example of someone who converts fat into keytones very well.  You have a good functioning realationship with your hypothalamus. 8)
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