This sounds great! I see that Vitacost sells it. I have a very young friend who is A-. She often suffers terrible cramps and her medical check ups have ruled out any pathology. I'd like to get some for her - and for myself as well......I have some of that cream from Puritan called The Rub and I lathered it on all over my stomach - twice. About an hour later I had no pain, slept great and have felt wonderful today! (I did have a container by the bed, though, just in case I got sick during the night!) I am a great believer in taking external measures to deal with internal problems!
Dianne I have heard that too...re even a little bit of gluten being such a problem ::) Take care TJ...;)I read somewhere that you can be off of gluten for awhile and then if you happen to ingest some for what ever reason, the damage lasts for six months. So...having a little here or there and sometimes unbeknown to yourself is not a good idea. It's like taking of the scab as things are trying to heal and starting over.
Quoted from Maria GiovannaT J ditto with Victoria no gluten at all also for me is needed, I need months to heal every time some gluten slip in my diet, if its gluten plus dairy OMG a disaster forr nearly a month and slow healing after
When I first read the GTD book in 2008, I recognized the signs of gut damage in myself: the lines in my fingerprints and the food sensitivities. Since then, I have been on a low- to no-gluten diet with only occasional use of gluten foods, such as experiments with barley (while trying out the Gatherer diet) and spelt, sacrament/communion bread, and traces of gluten that may be found in many foods. When I bought SWAMI, I checked off the lines in fingerprints so that the diet would always take into account the need to heal my gut. I no longer eat the sacrament bread. I go for gluten-free products when it's reasonable to do so, and try to minimize gluten when it isn't.
Four years later, I've made no lasting progress. My fingerprints (heck, the whole palm side of my fingers) are still shot through with lines and the ridges are low. I'm very thin, have low muscle strength, still struggle with fatigue, nd I still react badly to eggs and dairy proteins; all of which suggests that my gut is still in need of substantial healing.
If these dietary changes were going to heal my gut, wouldn't they have done so already? What else could be preventing my gut from healing?
Yes, I've used Deflect, Polyflora, magnesium, ghee, and ARA Plus.
Explorer is my #2. Probably around 40% if I could look at that on SWAMI. I have trouble with sulfites, too, and I stay away from them.Quoted from PossumTJ I feel for you!! Us nonnies do have our multiple issues...I wonder if your problems are from things that aren't covered quite as much even by the "nonnie diet" Perhaps you are more of an Explorer than you think..
As you might recall, I suffer a fair bit from the effects of sulphur/sulphites/phenols etc...Was just getting back into some extensive reading yesterday after reintroducing berries etc into my diet (with really bad effect) & I was amazed (as I was on first discovering this aspect) how much damage things like phenols can do... ::) :-/
You have had a lot of trauma to deal with during those four years, TJ. No question about it.
...There is no doubt that you are due for a breakthrough. And I truly hope that it comes soon. I've read about one method that is used in one country to calm and relax the stomach and a lot of stock is placed in it. I found that doing that not only helped my stomach but lowered my blood pressure in minutes! I relate the following as an example of how quickly this sort of thing can work - Last night I had a horrible pain in my stomach that came on very suddenly while I was busy with getting ready to have a new floor put in our kitchen today, and I thought surely I was coming down with the virus that is raging in this area.... I think your stomach needs some serious TLC, TJ!(smile)
There certainly have been bouts of severe stress over this time. Even so, four years? I've never had reason to believe I have ulcers or H. pylori. It's extremely rare for me to have nausea/upset stomach. I think my stomach is fine, with the problems being mostly in my small intestine.TJ Have you ever been checked for H Pylori?
Yes, I have considered that. I went several months in 2010 as gluten-free as I could get, including supplements and medications. :-/ I noted some small improvements right off the bat, but nothing substantial ever came of it. I could be wrong. SWAMI gives me spelt (a gluten grain) as a neutral. Of course SWAMI doesn't know everything.Just a thought, TJ --
You describe your diet as:
"only occasional use of gluten foods"
"gluten-free products when it's reasonable to do so, and try to minimize gluten when it isn't"
Low gluten is not the same as gluten-free and if a person is truly gluten intolerant, even small amounts of gluten are disastrous to the lining of the gut.
My gut never began truly healing until I completely eliminated all traces of gluten from my diet.
The Intrinsia from Dr. D. and glutamine are excellent, excellent remedies for gut healing.
I haven't tried Intrinsia, Gastro-D, Live Cell, or glutamine. I'm taking gobs of supplements already, and if I can ever get together to means to purchase the herbs for the Buhner Lyme protocol, I'll then be taking more than twice what I'm taking now. How many different supplements can you take and still get benefit from all of them? I'm once again on a very tight budget, too. Having used Dr. D's supps, I'm a believer in them, but they are still costly.Quoted from Andrea AWsecNothing like the supplements that Dr. D has to heal the gut. Have you ever used used Gastro D and intrinsia -- and deflect and live cell?
This I understand. Take away the stuff that's making you sick, and add stuff to make you heal.Quoted from Andrea AWsecYou can stay off gluten but you will not heal the gut by doing so--- it is always about what you do eat/do then what you don't.
The supplements are necessary. :-/
Me too....gluten is lethal to my gut....I'm so careful but even a little gluten eaten by mistake can set me back and inflame my gut something awful. Dairy isn't as obvious to my gut as gluten is, but can trigger an inflammatory reaction in my entire body within a day or two. I had full blown celiac...
some people are just sensitive to it.
Quoted from Maria GiovannaT J ditto with Victoria no gluten at all also for me is needed, I need months to heal every time some gluten slip in my diet, if its gluten plus dairy OMG a disaster forr nearly a month and slow healing after
I have a question for y'all: how can you tell? I'm not questioning if gluten is really a problem for you. I just want to know what tips you off that you've accidentally ingested gluten, and how you know when you've recovered from the damage. I need to know what to look for!My gut never began truly healing until I completely eliminated all traces of gluten from my diet.
This sounds great! I see that Vitacost sells it. I have a very young friend who is A-. She often suffers terrible cramps and her medical check ups have ruled out any pathology. I'd like to get some for her - and for myself as well......
Thank you for the good advice! :) 8)
Thank you all for your input. What I'm really wondering is if there is some other sort of underlying condition that's contributing. Is there something else I don't know about? Do you have any ideas about other possible causes?
I have a question for y'all: how can you tell? I'm not questioning if gluten is really a problem for you. I just want to know what tips you off that you've accidentally ingested gluten, and how you know when you've recovered from the damage. I need to know what to look for!
I know, I've been there. Too much stress is what finally broke my back, so to speak. I know it's harmful, but I'm doing what I can about it right now.There may be, TJ, but don't underestimate the damage stress can do to you. I know very well myself that it can kill you!! It can undo everything under the sun that we try to do to maintain our health! Be your body's best friend - with all its strengths and weaknesses!!
Thank you, and I sure hope so. Maybe some other people will get something out of it, too.A few light bulbs may go off among the lot of us, you included, that will shed more light as we think more about all this. And be aware that we all care about you and are hoping for a very good outcome! (smile)
It really requires a looooooooooooooooooot of patience. One must go philosophically about it and have faith. You have no way to know from beforehand if it's only your gluten sensitivity or if there's something else as well. The one thing that will for sure tell you in good time is your body. You don't have to go on challenging your body with any gluten anymore, cause this one you already KNOW. My name is Yaeli and I am gluten sensitive. So my "grains" are rice, quinoa, and buckwheat. That's all, and Praise the Lord. This is the only way I can go about it.TJ,
Even if you get gluten completely out of your diet, you may have some stored in the body that gets removed as you heal... It can have the same effects as when you ate it. I'm going through this with grains, chemicals, and some other "stuff".
The only difference I can see between where you are and where I am is that I have a practitioner that can verify that I am healing, in spite of how I feel most of the time.
Oops! and millet. Heating some right now.So my "grains" are rice, quinoa, and buckwheat.
Everybody is focusing on gluten, but not mycotoxin. All of you have environmental sensitivities, which includes mold (I had the very same problem). Your white lines won't get better until you address that issue...
Addressing the sensitivity itself is more important than trying to avoid everything under the sun that may or may not be bothering us! Of course, most anyone would know that wading around in mold in your house isn't healthy for anyone whether they are known to be "sensitive" to it or not. Eating foods loaded with mycotoxins is something that is done day in and day out. But there are things we can do to help our bodies fight the damage they can do to us. Of course, we can get into the polyamine problem again. That canned stuff? The flash frozen veggies? The meat that has been lying around in the fridge for days? Etc., etc......
Meat increases in polyamine content as it is in the fridge longer and longer? I thought it was just the flash freezing?
Not only are they produced in food sources: "And often, ........ they are produced by the body in response to the lectins contained in many plants, grains and legumes." In addition to that, meats and just about any food substance out there, including seafood. And especially if it is an avoid for you. The quote is from LRforYT, page 102. You can read further about this nasty stuff in the book. We need some polyamines but it is the overdose that can kill us. It needs to be pointed out that Dr. D. says the green flash-frozen veggies are an exception. It is so easy to throw fresh or cooked meats and veggies in the freezer if they are not going to be eaten right away. Except your salad stuff, of course! Just do it! (smile) My mother was very gentle with foods - no "shocking" them in her kitchen! Whether it was high heat or any of the over-processing methods that can promote an over-abundance of polyamines. But the important thing is to stick with the diet that is yours and take very good care of your foods!
If I eat wheat, I feel totally wrecked the next day. There's no mistaking that. I'm thinking you're probably right about the spelt, but how can I tell? I felt all-over yucky before, during, and after I was using it. I felt no GI distress.
Pretty much since I got back from NC at the end of November, I have felt all-over yucky with some good days scattered throughout. I don't even know why. I can't make any consistent connections between things I've eaten or done and how I've felt.
I am sensitive to mold; getting away from it was a benefit of moving to the desert. Perhaps you are referring to something else? I don't eat moldy food if that's what you're wondering about! ::)Everybody is focusing on gluten, but not mycotoxin. All of you have environmental sensitivities, which includes mold (I had the very same problem). Your white lines won't get better until you address that issue...
Amen to that. The fact that I remain so frail and oversensitive indicates that there is something deeper going on. Healthy bodies, and even not-so-healthy bodies, can eat "avoid" foods day after day and still be able to go about their day-to-day activities. I am physically, mentally, and emotionally handicapped when it comes to doing what I need to do or coping with routine stresses.Addressing the sensitivity itself is more important than trying to avoid everything under the sun that may or may not be bothering us!
Guys, I'm pretty sure I have Lyme disease, but nothing I've read so far tells me that it wrecks the gut. Maybe I just missed that in my reading. I don't know, my mind and memory aren't reliable.
Healing requires raw materials: the nutrients we get from the food we eat. Clearly I'm not getting enough, and that's why I haven't healed yet. I want to know what is standing in the way, and what can I do about it?
Maybe I've been denial... I have had and continue to have almost all of these symptoms...
Well said Spring!! I agree!! Your empathy ABJoe (or anyone's) is sometimes more useful than "getting all the answers"...We all somehow muddle through this together...;)One thing for sure, you have been a tremendous support to a lot of people on this forum with your active interest in trying to help them. There is a lot to be said for empathetic people, but I think your understanding goes a lot farther than that because of your own situation. In my book you are a hero!
Quoted from PossumTJ I feel for you!! Us nonnies do have our multiple issues...:) :-/
TJ, why not commit to eating completely gluten-free and give that a chance? You know you're gluten intolerant, but if you continue to eat some wheat and some spelt and keep feeling lousy, you're making yourself anxious and feeling yucky. :K)
TJ - you would have to eat a lot of ghee to get the benefits from it. The butyric acid in the Intrinsia is more potent and concentrated.
You are right, of course. I just need to accept it. Gluten is not good for me in any amount, from any source.With celiac disease, or gluten allergy, the body exhibits an immune response in the small intestine whenever gluten protein is present. Such a reaction aggravates the intestinal lining and damages the little "hairs" (villi) covering the wall of the digestive tract. In properly functioning organs, these villi will help push food along the intestinal tube while aiding in the absorption of nutrients into the bloodstream. In patients with celiac disease, this absorption process is impeded and can lead to cases of rapid weight loss and eventual malnutrition if left untreated.
Me too, Joe. I suppose it makes sense that if it can go everywhere else, why not there, too?Lyme spirochetes travel from the site of the bite to anywhere in the body via the skin, lymph system, and blood. They can ultimately cause problems in all body systems.
...Maybe I've been denial... I have had and continue to have almost all of these symptoms...
No, not everything, but very little comes out recognizable.TJ is everything well digested that goes through you?
This is the best thing to come out of this discussion so far. Your suggestion about choline was of great value. I just did some reading about choline on the Linus Pauling Institute website. There's no way I'm getting enough choline in my diet.Please try soy lecithin with your fats, just eat a spoonful with fats. Try to get B vitamins in the same meal; but make it breakfast or lunch.
Your diet is not high on choline, essential for liver fat digestion. People usually get it from eggs and soy, which you don't eat.
I understand your frustration. I have come to the conclusion that when no results are being seen there are a couple possibilities, allergies are completely halting function or something isn't being digested. A lot of things are fat soluble, just to say.
Agreed. You are a priceless contributor here, Joe.One thing for sure, you have been a tremendous support to a lot of people on this forum with your active interest in trying to help them. There is a lot to be said for empathetic people, but I think your understanding goes a lot farther than that because of your own situation. In my book you are a hero!
No insurance, no colonoscopy. Not now, anyway. FYI by no means do I intend to start eating wheat again! The closest I'd dare come is spelt, and it seems that was a bad idea, too. Like I said, I'll get rid of gluten and traces of wheat where I can. However, I can't help it if there is some in my medications. And I'm sure not going to quit eating all the wonderful nuts I can buy at Costco that say "may contain traces of..." I can't afford to. If even traces of gluten caused a noticeable reaction, I'd be more concerned and cautious. You have to pick your battles.#3. I would suggest a colonoscopy. They'll tell you if your villi is screwed up. If it is, than you know wheat or gluten is a problem. If it's not, it might not be as big a deal as something else. Having said that, I think there is a lot of information out there saying how wheat grown today is modified, it's not what it used to be, and it is not good for most of us.
I only find myself obsessing about my health when I don't feel healthy. If anything, I should take more care, instead of going into denial every day that I wake up feeling well rested, energetic, and not in pain. When I feel sick and I think about it and focus my attention on it, it helps me figure out what to do next. But pointless worrying will only make thing worse.#5. Worrying about it, fixating about it, and delving into our problems to the degree that we do, doesn't help. I hate to say it but I'm pretty convinced that sometimes the more I focus on my problems, the worse they are going to be. And I'm not taking a soap box on this, I'm saying I'm learning that lesson. I've been shown that yes, my body doesn't work as well as it should at times. But when I focus on it, even if to trying to find ways to overcome it, sometimes creates a mental state of perpetualness of the physical problems. And I'm as guilty as anyone at this or more. So, I'm not preaching, I'm just saying. But you MAY fit into that category as well. Maybe not, but I'm just throwing it out there.
"And though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in my flesh shall I see God:" - Job 19:26.But just know, anything I said above is said in a respectful way and you are not alone. I'm in the trenches with you. I hit 121 last night praise God. But believe me, every day is a struggle as to know how to heal. Just ask Joe, he's heard me whine enough about it. hehehhe Right Joe!! But yeah, it's so great to have friends on here we can talk to.
You'll get better. You'll get better. When, who knows, but you will.
More to come.Tolerable Upper Intake Level (UL) for Supplemental Magnesium
Adults 19 years and older - 350 mg
but soy lecithin has been a black dot for me in SWAMI
I just reran it yesterday. Still a black dot.Quoted from C_SharpHave you checked since Jan 16th? The values changed in the SWAMI Genotype edition for some people on that date, I presume they also changed in the SWAMI Xpress edition.
Joe, I've never tried nutritional yeast. I worry about the glutamate in it.
I haven't had floating poo lately. Should I still be concerned about fat absorption? I also supplement with zinc, but I prefer not to use supplemental calcium. Bs absorb calcium very efficiently, and calcium competes with magnesium which is more challenging for Bs.
I just reran it yesterday. Still a black dot.
Yes. Doesn't seem likely in my situation.Have you considered heavy metal toxicity?
Diamond. Just like numerous dairy products, onions, and spinach....Where does it rate on your SWAMI?
I've reconsidered calcium. This page was an eye-opener! http://lpi.oregonstate.edu/infocenter/minerals/calcium/ When I tried supplemental calcium before, I was eating lots a dairy. Now, not so much -- only butter, ghee, and sour cream. It seems that calcium supplementation will be a good idea after all.I see no reason why not to do separate calcium with zinc and magnesium except some come with HCL combined in the pill for better absorption. Frankly I doubt you have been absorbing calcium too well. I would expect potentially strange results from taking any of them by themselves. Zinc is not fun to have too much of it, and yet not too effective without the counter parts in someone who has been digesting poorly.
Yes, this has been a helpful discussion!Anyway it seems like you have a little bit of direction to try, less worrying, more doing stuff that makes you feel good as your body tries its best.
. My fingerprints (heck, the whole palm side of my fingers) are still shot through with lines and the ridges are low. I'm very thin, have low muscle strength, still struggle with fatigue, nd I still react badly to eggs and dairy proteins; all of which suggests that my gut is still in need of substantial healing.
It is.My biceps are nicer after taking choline, by the way. They are more dense (too bad no one will know since I'm fat). If you are exercising it may help a lot for muscle development (seems like a goal of yours?).
Good question. My fingerprints should recover, for one thing. I expect myself to find eggs and dairy protein tolerance again. AFAIK, most food sensitivities are because some of the proteins escape through the small intestinal wall into the blood before being completely digested. Those undigested protein are not supposed to be in circulation and provoke autoimmunity and maybe interfere with aspects of metabolism.How will you know how healthy your gut is with this?
Good question. My fingerprints should recover, for one thing. I expect myself to find eggs and dairy protein tolerance again. AFAIK, most food sensitivities are because some of the proteins escape through the small intestinal wall into the blood before being completely digested. Those undigested protein are not supposed to be in circulation and provoke autoimmunity and maybe interfere with aspects of metabolism.
Fingerprints will reveal white lines if they are present. If you look at your fingers where the fingerprints are made, and they look as if they have been slashed lightly with a knife, then you know that those slashes will more than likely appear as white lines on your fingerprints.
...and they will only be white if you're taking the prints on something white. ;)If you actually do a fingerprint it will show up as a white line. Lines don't appear white on your finger.
This is something I've wondered about, too. I have creases all through my fingerprints. This is what I'm talking about here:I saw some in my right thumb its like a short wrinkle like a cut of a knife it looks plain color flesh. How white are you talking about?
When considering fingerprints in the context of intestinal health, are low fingerprint ridges the only meaningful cause for the white lines, or do these skin creases also count?My fingerprints (heck, the whole palm side of my fingers) are still shot through with lines and the ridges are low.
Interesting & makes sense!!I don't know about that, but I have noticed that when my fingers slip all the time when I am trying to turn a page, I can be assured that I am going to have white lines. The slipping fingers means the ridges are very shallow!
I don't have this problem but my dad does. You can barely see his fingerprints.I don't know about that, but I have noticed that when my fingers slip all the time when I am trying to turn a page, I can be assured that I am going to have white lines. The slipping fingers means the ridges are very shallow!
Ridge height appears to be linked to many of the same cell processes that control glycosylation in the gut. Proper ridge height equates with a patent digestive track, while a worn appearance may signal digestive problems. Known as ridge hypoplasia, this is a situation in which the fingerprint ridges are reduced in height, giving them a “worn-off” appearance. These areas of worn off ridges are also covered with an unusual number of fine secondary creases that become visible, producing what are called “white lines.”
So the question, "Why hasn't my gut healed yet?" is still the right one to be asking.
Quoted Text... shows a correlation between the appearance of white lines and celiac disease. Typically, the number of white lines increases with age as gut integrity continues to deteriorate. In many cases, these white lines begin to vanish with the maintenance of a gluten-free diet.
NP Marc. I don't think you have much to worry about with only three small ridges, but I could be wrong. (I'm assuming that you mean creases or lines when you say ridges. If you can only see 3 of the lines on your whole fingerprint, that is bad. :o) I don't have any idea what is considered average! I have several creases/lines on every print. My right hand prints seem to be slightly worse than the left.So this is what i looks like. My Dad and mom has that.
I have one ridge on the right middle thumb its a short one.
The other two short ridges is on the left thumb.
Am I on the average level?
Sorry for hi jacking your thread TJ.
I'm sure there has been some healing, but I'd have expected a lot better after this time.Quoted from ruthiegirlTJ, who says your gut hasn't healed a lot already? Perhaps your fingerprints were even worse a couple of years ago. Yes, you still have a lot of healing to do, but that's not the same as saying you haven't healed at all yet.
Yes. That's what I'm getting at. It doesn't make any sense to me to suggest that gluten is the only problem. There is absolutely something else in play that diet may help but won't fix.I really am trying to learn to not blame my food for every ailment I have. I think we can get to the point where this happens....
...It's possible that some kind of disease, like lymes disease is messing with our guts. It's possible that heavy metals are messing with our guts. It's possible that H.Pylori or some other unwanted thing like crypto spurridium is messing with our guts. ON and on. I think avoiding gluten or problem foods may help address these issues, but again, I think I've taken it too far. Or, maybe not. Maybe all my strict adherence has actually been to my benefit, and I just don't realize it. That's possible too.;D
I am SO an ectomorph. I've met people whose wrists are bigger than to biggest part of my forearm.Are you an ectomorph? I am. I can wrap my fingers around my wrist and overlap them. I was always pretty thing growing up. But I think that's OK for some of us.
It finally hit home that I've done everything I can possibly do for myself, and that I had to get help from somebody else if I was going to make progress. I don't like asking for help. I don't want to be a burden on other people. But what else can I do? This is too big for me. I can't make further progress by my own efforts. I can't afford to pay for help out of my own pocket, and I don't expect to be able to until I'm well enough that I don't need the help so desperately, so I talked to one of my church leaders yesterday, who is responsible for welfare in my congregation. He gave me some direction, that I needed to make a Dr. appointment and get a referral, and bring it to him. He also wants my family to help however they can, so I talked to mom and gave her the phone number of the other guy (Craig). (My family is in financial straits so I haven't asked them for the help I need, since I've already asked for so much in the past.) I'm seeing Craig again on Wednesday, and managed to get an appointment to see my practitioner tomorrow.Quoted from FacebookFriends, let me tell you something. I'm sick of living in crappy apartments. I'm sick of driving crappy cars. I'm sick of not having the money to fix them when they break down, and not (consistently) having the ability to do the repairs myself. I'm sick of not knowing how I'm going to pay for the next tank of gas, the next month's rent, the next refill on my phone, or the next trip to the grocery store.
I'm sick of not being able to depend on my own mind to remember things or to work through hard problems. I'm sick of not being able to depend on my body to work and do things that need to be done. I'm sick of my brain staying stressed out over things I can't control. I'm sick of being a scrawny, tired weakling. I'm sick of being oversensitive to foods and stress and chemicals and allergens. I'm sick of not getting better results from everything I've done to get healthy.
I'm sick of not knowing when it's going to get better. I'm sick of being in pain -- body, mind, and heart. I'm sick of not knowing what's wrong with me, and not knowing how to fix it, and not even knowing if it *can* be fixed. I sick of knowing that I probably can't afford whatever it's going to take.
I'm sick of putting on a good face even when I'm not okay. I'm so very sick of being in this miserable place and not being able to do anything about it.
I don't know what to do about any of this, and I don't expect any of you to know, either, but maybe it will help just knowing that *you know* -- and that you know I'm not just lazy, deluded, or dishonest; that you know that I'm doing the best I can, but I don't have much to work with; that I've never had much to work with and it's just getting worse.
Are you talking about the fingerprints?I know it sounds silly but... I imagine it is something simple, yet overlooked.
Can we see any pictures, just out of curiosity?