Print Topic - Archive

BTD Forums  /  The Encyclopedia/ D'Adamo Library  /  Cilantro Pesto and Chelation Therapy
Posted by: Patty H, Friday, September 9, 2011, 12:13am
Today I went to an informational seminar on heavy metals detoxification and chelation therapy.  I brought up the fact that cilantro was a great chelator and the doctor recommended that I NOT use cilantro or cilantro pesto until most of the metals have been detoxed from the body as it can cross the blood brain barrier and the metals can lodge in the brain.  :o There was one other thing he said can do this, but I did not write it down.  Sorry about that . . .  :-/

I thought I would post this as many people on this forum recommended cilantro pesto for heavy metals detox.  What I learned today is that it is important to do this with someone who really knows what they are doing.  Heavy metals detox can cause serious problems without the proper guidance of a professional who knows what they are doing.  

I hope those of you who recommended cilantro pesto will not be offended that I posted this.  I am posting with the best of intentions . . .  I made the cilantro pesto and have been using it (it is delicious) but will freeze it until I have been through the detox/chelation therapy.
Posted by: Lola, Friday, September 9, 2011, 6:14am; Reply: 1
all advice given here is preventive, not to be taken as therapeutically per se

like medication or other......always consult your Dr

it is written as a disclaimer.......
Posted by: PCUK-Positive, Friday, September 9, 2011, 11:44am; Reply: 2
Patty - What was the name of the person giving the seminar? It would be failry easy to suss them out.
Posted by: Patty H, Friday, September 9, 2011, 12:14pm; Reply: 3
Quoted from PCUK-Positive
Patty - What was the name of the person giving the seminar? It would be failry easy to suss them out.


Not sure what you mean, policychecker, about sussing him out . . .

He is an M.D. who practices functional medicine and specializes in heavy metals chelation/detoxification.  Without using his name, here is his professional information.  I am quite confident in his professional expertise, if that is what you are asking. Here is his information quoted from the website of the clinic with which he is associated, with all names and dates removed.

Quoted Text

Board Certification:
American Board of Family Medicine
American Board of Holistic Medicine

Degree(s):
Dartmouth College, BA, Biology
Columbia University, MD

Significant Internships, Residencies, Fellowships:
Family Medicine Residency, Providence Hospital, Seattle, Wa.

Areas of Expertise:
Functional Medicine, Detoxification, Preventative Medicine, Holistic and Integrative Medicine, Nutritional Medicine

Professional Associations:
Institute for Functional Medicine, Teaching faculty affiliations with Tufts University School of Medicine, University of Massachusetts School of Medicine, and University of Vermont School of Medicine

NAME REMOVED completed his undergraduate education at Dartmouth College. Columbia University was the site of his MD degree. Postgraduate training in a family medicine residency program in Seattle, Washington.

Board certified in family medicine, and became board certified in holistic medicine. His medical training has included time spent on Native American reservations and in war-torn Guatemala.

For twenty years NAME REMOVED has practiced the full scope of family medicine in Latino community health centers in Massachusetts and Washington. Prior to joining the staff at NAME OF CLINIC REMOVED, NAME REMOVED spent five years working in an integrative health center in Vermont.

NAME REMOVED also maintains an active presence in the academic medical community. He is the Director of Outpatient Medicine and the Associate Director of the Integrative Medicine Fellowship at the NAME OF CLINIC REMOVED. He holds faculty teaching appointments at Tufts University, the University of Massachusetts, and the University of Vermont schools of medicine.
Posted by: PCUK-Positive, Friday, September 9, 2011, 12:59pm; Reply: 4
http://www.healthdiaries.com/eatthis/cilantro-chelation-therapy-heavy-metal-detox.html

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8914687?dopt=AbstractPlus

I'm no expert but my first impression from the wensite of your doctor and the marketing is not good for your MD. that is not to say he is wrong of course, I'll certainly read more on the subject however where is his researchon this.




Posted by: PCUK-Positive, Friday, September 9, 2011, 1:09pm; Reply: 5
Cilantro is not mention on the website once although in the attached bistro they sell a pesto. lol

anyway i emailed him and asked him for some links to research on cilantro.

if it's not a scare tactic then i would like to know about it.


by the way i read that "No more thimerosal-containing vaccines. By 2002, all US vaccines will be thimerosal-free. Until then, ask for thimerosal-free vaccines. For almost every possible vaccine given, there is at least one brand that does not contain thimerosal." is this true, it's still in the UK vaccines.

Posted by: PCUK-Positive, Friday, September 9, 2011, 1:17pm; Reply: 6
reading more some dentists say that the cilantro frees up the mercury but allows it to circulate through the body. and that it need to bind to something else.
Posted by: PCUK-Positive, Friday, September 9, 2011, 1:22pm; Reply: 7
"With so many expensive oral chelation scams around


http://www.newmediaexplorer.org/chris/2006/02/19/cilantro_chelation_that_can_save_your_life.htm
Posted by: Patty H, Friday, September 9, 2011, 1:28pm; Reply: 8
I'm confused here, policychecker - who did you email and what website are you talking about?

He said exactly what was said in the first link you provided - that cilantro crosses the blood-brain barrier.  He is not saying not to eat cilantro, but to wait until the amalgam and most of the metals have been removed or to eat it under the direction of an expert.  He was also not saying it needed to be avoided altogether, but that it should be consumed in moderation until the amalgam has been removed.  Maybe you misunderstood what I was saying.  I have extremely high levels of mercury and lead and do not feel that this is something I should do on my own, without the direction of an expert.

Is this your area of expertise?
Posted by: PCUK-Positive, Friday, September 9, 2011, 1:39pm; Reply: 9
No, not an expert,  not at all Patty but an area of interest and i have been researching it for a while now as in years. fallen out with a few dentist and oral surgeon friends in the process.

Your original post did confuse me "the doctor recommended that I NOT use cilantro or cilantro pesto until most of the metals have been detoxed from the body as it can cross the blood brain barrier and the metals can lodge in the brain.

as since cilantro is proven to take the mercury out of the brain. the above would be incorrect.

on another note this site is interesting too but it's all FYI kind regards

What I didn't know at the time was that I am personally more sensitive to composite fillings than mercury. They are estrogenic and the lidocaine is a carcinogen so I eventually realised that people with cavities and/or mercury-sensitivity are caught between a rock and a hard place.  This said, there are biocompatility tests that help people to determine which substances are most suitable for them, but all these tests do raise the cost of dental work.

http://www.kitchendoctor.com/herbs/cilantro.php
Posted by: PCUK-Positive, Friday, September 9, 2011, 1:42pm; Reply: 10
I email Robert Luby.
Posted by: Patty H, Friday, September 9, 2011, 3:25pm; Reply: 11
Quoted from PCUK-Positive
I email Robert Luby.


How did you get his name and why are you emailing him?  I really wanted to keep his name confidential and would have prefered that you PM me.  I would have assumed that my removing his name and the name of all of his places of work would have indicated that I was not wanting to discuss the credentials of a specific individual, just that the individual I saw yesterday is qualified.

I am talking to two other people who do heavy metals detox and chelation therapy as well.  Please don't make any reference to me.  I would prefer that he not think I am shopping his expertise and credentials around on the internet.

By the way, the dental clinic he is associated with is one of the few in my area that have expertise in mercury amalgam removal.  You may not like their website, but I got their name from Chloe on the forum here who posted this link of a dentist who has a list of individuals qualified to do this type of work:

http://www.dentalwellness4u.com/freeservices/find_dentists.html

This looked like a great place to start and Groton Wellness is one of the only places close to my home.
Posted by: PCUK-Positive, Friday, September 9, 2011, 3:29pm; Reply: 12
I wasn't aware it was secret, just becasue you removed his name!

Patty why in the world would you think i would mention your name?

too much drama


Posted by: Patty H, Friday, September 9, 2011, 4:12pm; Reply: 13
Quoted from PCUK-Positive
I wasn't aware it was secret, just becasue you removed his name!

Patty why in the world would you think i would mention your name?

too much drama




Policychecker, I do not think the purpose of this forum is to try to discredit a reputable doctor who specializes in a particular field.

And while I appreciate your offer of help to "suss" out a particular health practitioner, I didn't ask for help.  I merely posted a thread that people should be careful before they attempt mercury chelation therapy with cilantro pesto without the help of a qualified professional.

No drama intended or felt on my part.
Posted by: Mark, Friday, September 9, 2011, 6:04pm; Reply: 14
I think it is good that you are getting this part of your life handled Patty. I am a big fan of chelation therapy when it's done with a good doctor.

Please let us know of your progress.
Posted by: Lin, Friday, September 9, 2011, 7:24pm; Reply: 15
This is a good post, as most of us are trying to detox. I went to one of my favorite websites and looked up and found something that might be good to try:
Detox Juice Recipe
Posted By Dr. Ben Kim Healthy Beverages Full Body Cleanse Recipes
A freshly pressed vegetable juice that is meant to stimulate the elimination of toxins from your body should have the following properties:

1. The ability to encourage movement of waste products through your intestines.

2. The ability to encourage your digestive organs to release digestive juices that can help to optimally break down recently ingested food.

3. The ability to draw toxins out of your tissues.

With these properties in mind, here is one of the most effective detox juice recipes that I know of:

Artichoke, Cilantro, and Radish Detox Juice Recipe

Ingredients:

4 Jerusalem artichokes
2 handfuls of fresh cilantro
4 radishes
3 carrots
1 tablespoon of green food powder that contains chlorella

Directions:

Use a juicer to press all ingredients except green food powder into a vegetable juice.

Combine juice and green food powder in a bottle with a secure lid and shake well for 10 or more seconds. Enjoy within an hour of making this effective detox juice.

Notes:

Jerusalem artichokes are rich in the soluble fiber inulin, which is known to encourage healthy bowel function.
Cilantro and chlorella are regularly recommended by many health practitioners, myself included, for purposes of detoxification.
Radishes are known to stimulate the release of bile from the gall bladder. Bile is needed for optimal digestion of fat.
Posted by: ruthiegirl, Friday, September 9, 2011, 9:03pm; Reply: 16
It's been widely discussed that cilantro can help people detox mercury; you came here with an alternative claim (that cilantro can be dangerous for people with high mercury) and didn't really share the source for this information. You shared enough information to say "I trust the person who gave me this information and here's why I trust him" but you didn't give us enough information to evaluate the claim for ourselves. A link to an article your dentist showed you is the kind of proof that we'd find useful; just his claim that it's unsafe (without even telling us his name so we can research his statements) wasn't exactly helpful.

It probably would have been better if you hadn't shared the information about your dentist with his name removed; that seemed to invite somebody seeking him out further (which is what PC did; I see this as an effort to further evaluate the claim that cilantro is dangerous, not as anything disrespectful to you or your dentist.)

I'm glad you have somebody working with you directly to deal with your heavy metal detox. If I was working with somebody indivually like that, I'd follow his or her advice too. But since I'm currently muddling through on my own, I would appreciate some more sources so I can do my own research.
Posted by: cajun, Saturday, September 10, 2011, 12:10am; Reply: 17
I am interested in all info and experiences!
I am dealing with amalgam fillings, medical x-rays, c-scans, and a cell phone tower so I eat cilantro, parsley and lots of leafy greens on an almost daily basis!
I would like to know the latest research,etc.
Posted by: jayneeo, Saturday, September 10, 2011, 4:24pm; Reply: 18
I feel that Patty is getting excellent advise and sharing it with us! We can always learn. I went thru a heavy metal detox at one time under the care of a doctor (chiropractor) and I am grateful that it worked and rapidly too. My doctor said his treatment , which included chlorella, cilantro, etc. relied on high dose fish oil to remove the toxins from the body through the bloodstream, where the chelation herbs were dumping it.....for whatever that's worth...
Posted by: Mark, Saturday, September 10, 2011, 5:27pm; Reply: 19
Quoted from jayneeo
I feel that Patty is getting excellent advise and sharing it with us! We can always learn. I went thru a heavy metal detox at one time under the care of a doctor (chiropractor) and I am grateful that it worked and rapidly too. My doctor said his treatment , which included chlorella, cilantro, etc. relied on high dose fish oil to remove the toxins from the body through the bloodstream, where the chelation herbs were dumping it.....for whatever that's worth...


That's an interesting protocol.
Posted by: Patty H, Sunday, September 11, 2011, 10:09pm; Reply: 20
Quoted from ruthiegirl
It's been widely discussed that cilantro can help people detox mercury; you came here with an alternative claim (that cilantro can be dangerous for people with high mercury) and didn't really share the source for this information. You shared enough information to say "I trust the person who gave me this information and here's why I trust him" but you didn't give us enough information to evaluate the claim for ourselves. A link to an article your dentist showed you is the kind of proof that we'd find useful; just his claim that it's unsafe (without even telling us his name so we can research his statements) wasn't exactly helpful.

It probably would have been better if you hadn't shared the information about your dentist with his name removed; that seemed to invite somebody seeking him out further (which is what PC did; I see this as an effort to further evaluate the claim that cilantro is dangerous, not as anything disrespectful to you or your dentist.)

I'm glad you have somebody working with you directly to deal with your heavy metal detox. If I was working with somebody indivually like that, I'd follow his or her advice too. But since I'm currently muddling through on my own, I would appreciate some more sources so I can do my own research.


Ruthie, I think if you read my original post, you will see that I was merely putting out a warning about trying to detox on your own with cilantro pesto.  I never said that "cilantro can be dangerous for people with high mercury."   I did state that I went to an informational seminar on heavy metals detoxification and chelation therapy.  I did state it was a doctor (not dentist) who shared the information about cilantro pesto crossing the blood-brain barrier.  You also supposedly quoted me by writing with quotation marks, "I trust the person who gave me this information and here's why I trust him"  I never said this, but the way you posted using quotation marks implies I did.  I think it is important to not misquote people.

He did not give us any specific articles or share links with us at the seminar - I specifically asked him about cilantro pesto and he recommended that cilantro pesto and the other thing I can't remember be used with great care.  I was surprised that PC would email a doctor he doesn't know about this.  Since I am the one who asked the doctor about the cilantro pesto, he may wonder why someone is emailing him the day after the seminar specifically about cilantro.  

I think if you or anyone else had further interest in chelation therapy and cilantro pesto crossing the blood-brain barrier, it would be easy to search on the internet, which is what I hoped people would do - do the research for themselves.

Once again, I was not asking if people thought the information was correct or whether the doctor  was qualified.  And then I did post his credentials without his name or his places of employment.  I removed his name because I did not want to discuss the qualifications of an particular MD on this site.  He is more than qualified to do what he is doing, so I didn't feel I needed to post his name.  I did my homework to find three qualified individuals from whom to choose for the chelation therapy.  Unless someone is in Massachusetts and is looking for a qualified individual to help with chelation therapy, I have no idea why anyone would feel the need to try to figure out who I saw.  That is my personal business.  Also, that personal certainly could have PM'd me if they were looking for qualified practitioners and I would have been more than happy to share the names of the three individual I am deciding between.

Let's be honest.  Many of the people posting on this forum, including myself, are not health care practitioners.  I have seen a lot of advice posted here that goes directly against some of Dr. D's advice.  Just because advice represents an "alternative claim" to what has been previously posted on this forum doesn't mean it is invalid, incorrect or worthy of consideration.  Aren't we here to learn?   I, for one, know that I certainly have a lot to learn.
Posted by: Patty H, Sunday, September 11, 2011, 10:14pm; Reply: 21
Quoted from Mark
I think it is good that you are getting this part of your life handled Patty. I am a big fan of chelation therapy when it's done with a good doctor.

Please let us know of your progress.


Thank you for your support, Mark.  I go for my first dental appointment later this month, so I will have a better handle on that part of the process soon.  Depending upon how long it takes for the amalgam removal, I assume I will start the chelation therapy sometime late this year or early next year.
Posted by: Patty H, Sunday, September 11, 2011, 10:17pm; Reply: 22
Lin, are you trying to detox from anything specific?  Have you had a heavy metals urine test?
Posted by: Patty H, Sunday, September 11, 2011, 10:24pm; Reply: 23
Quoted from cajun
I am interested in all info and experiences!
I am dealing with amalgam fillings, medical x-rays, c-scans, and a cell phone tower so I eat cilantro, parsley and lots of leafy greens on an almost daily basis!
I would like to know the latest research,etc.


Cajun, I would love to hear about your progress and the process if you are interested in sharing info here.  I have a large benign cyst on my left lung and am also dealing with CT scans and MRI's and the residual gadolinium.  Since early April, I have had two CT scans, two MRI's and a PET scan.  I have my next CT scan scheduled for October.

I will need an entire set of dental x-rays before any of the amalgam fillings can be removed.

Are you considering getting some professional help with the detox process?  

Best of luck.
Posted by: Patty H, Sunday, September 11, 2011, 11:58pm; Reply: 24
Quoted from jayneeo
I feel that Patty is getting excellent advise and sharing it with us! We can always learn. I went thru a heavy metal detox at one time under the care of a doctor (chiropractor) and I am grateful that it worked and rapidly too. My doctor said his treatment , which included chlorella, cilantro, etc. relied on high dose fish oil to remove the toxins from the body through the bloodstream, where the chelation herbs were dumping it.....for whatever that's worth...


Thank you, Jayneeo.  I think that might be the issue with cilantro pesto.  I think he might have been implying that when it crosses the blood-brain barrier to attach to heavy metals, it needs to have a way out of the brain as well.  Once the chelator has attached to the heavy metal, it needs to find its way out of the body using something like high dose fish oil or something else, as part of the chelation process.  As I understand it, it can be removed through the urine, fecal matter or sweat, utilizing the liver, the kidneys or the skin.  Maybe I am wrong about that, but he implied that if one has a weak liver and kidney, as one of the participants said was a particular concern, he can be sure to direct the heavy metals out through the sweat.  It was a very minimal discussion about cilantro in an hour and a half long seminar.  He asked if anyone knew about things that are good for detoxing and I mentioned cilantro pesto.  I was very impressed with him.  He seems quite knowledgeable and caring.  Every question asked was answered with care and concern.  He spent a lot of time (for free) helping us to understand what the process entails.  The other two practitioners would also be excellent, but he is both an MD and certified in holistic health care, and I like that.

Any other information you would like to share about your detox would be greatly appreciated.
Posted by: jayneeo, Monday, September 12, 2011, 3:26am; Reply: 25
Sure. I pm'd you. My detox was like a miracle....who knew these poisens could be removed? I have a feeling you're on the right track and will be feeling better soon.
Posted by: Patty H, Monday, September 12, 2011, 4:00pm; Reply: 26
Quoted from jayneeo
Sure. I pm'd you. My detox was like a miracle....who knew these poisens could be removed? I have a feeling you're on the right track and will be feeling better soon.


Thank you, Jayneeo!  The funny thing is, I am not feeling bad.  I feel great!   ??)
Posted by: cajun, Monday, September 12, 2011, 4:59pm; Reply: 27
Patty H,

Oh my goodness. What we put our bodies through for a diagnosis, huh? It looks like you will be going through more than I have...although...I thought radiation was accumulative and we never really get rid of it... ??) ::)
Anyway, I had 25 pelvic x-rays in 1971 due to an injury/fall. I was in the hospital for a week and home in bed..in traction..for 2 months..with a ruptured disc.
Considering my sinus issues (3 ct scans in 2 years), chest x-rays, back x-rays and dental x-rays, I believe I glow in the dark!!!! :o
I have not considered professional help...yet...for detoxing but am talking to a friend who has...so...we will see.
Keep us posted, Patty! I will keep you in my prayers,,,sending healing thoughts your way! ;)  
Posted by: cajun, Monday, September 12, 2011, 5:01pm; Reply: 28
Jayneeo,

So they can be removed? Please tell us about it! I really want to find as much info has possible. thanks 8)
Posted by: Patty H, Monday, September 12, 2011, 5:07pm; Reply: 29
Quoted from cajun
Patty H,

Oh my goodness. What we put our bodies through for a diagnosis, huh? It looks like you will be going through more than I have...although...I thought radiation was accumulative and we never really get rid of it... ??) ::)
Anyway, I had 25 pelvic x-rays in 1971 due to an injury/fall. I was in the hospital for a week and home in bed..in traction..for 2 months..with a ruptured disc.
Considering my sinus issues (3 ct scans in 2 years), chest x-rays, back x-rays and dental x-rays, I believe I glow in the dark!!!! :o
I have not considered professional help...yet...for detoxing but am talking to a friend who has...so...we will see.
Keep us posted, Patty! I will keep you in my prayers,,,sending healing thoughts your way! ;)  


Cajun, it sure sounds like you have had your fair share of health issues as well.  So sorry  :-/  I am glad you are talking to a friend about professional help.  No matter what you decide to do, it is a good idea to explore all your options, IMHO.  I think it can be expensive, so that is certainly a consideration as well.

Thank you for the prayers and healing thoughts!  I will do the same for you.   :K)

If you would like, I can post more when I begin the amalgam removal through the chelation process if people think it would be helpful to understand the process I am going through.
Posted by: Mark, Monday, September 12, 2011, 5:48pm; Reply: 30
Patty, I read you ran up to 3 miles a day somewhere? Not sure whether I read that correctly.

I recommend the Maffetone Method for blood type O hunters. You may not be exercising correctly.

Give it a try. :)
Posted by: jayneeo, Monday, September 12, 2011, 5:51pm; Reply: 31
cajun, I had a really good chiropractor...one who was brilliant and into natural healing, nutrition, etc. and I went to him with my symptoms...he tested my saliva for metals and showed me his findings: several heavy metals were somewhat high. Somewhat????? I was experiencing metallic taste on tongue, flashes of blindness, interstitial cystitiis (urinary issues ::)) etc.......but the important thing is his treatment healed me in a matter of weeks......so the takeaway? Find a professional who is very knowledgable and follow their protocols.
Posted by: Mark, Monday, September 12, 2011, 5:51pm; Reply: 32
Quoted from cajun
Jayneeo,

So they can be removed? Please tell us about it! I really want to find as much info has possible. thanks 8)


Probably Klinghardt protocol. I've heard good things about it.

http://www.hbci.com/~wenonah/new/9steps.htm
Posted by: Patty H, Monday, September 12, 2011, 5:56pm; Reply: 33
Quoted from Mark
Patty, I read you ran up to 3 miles a day somewhere? Not sure whether I read that correctly.

I recommend the Maffetone Method for blood type O hunters. You may not be exercising correctly.

Give it a try. :)


Thank you, Mark.  I will check it out!  ;)
Posted by: jayneeo, Monday, September 12, 2011, 5:58pm; Reply: 34
my exposure was from teaching jewelry (torches, metals, fluxes, acids)
Posted by: Patty H, Monday, September 12, 2011, 6:10pm; Reply: 35
Quoted from Mark
Patty, I read you ran up to 3 miles a day somewhere? Not sure whether I read that correctly.

I recommend the Maffetone Method for blood type O hunters. You may not be exercising correctly.

Give it a try. :)


Mark, I just ordered the book.  Thanks for the recommendation.

I run/walk three miles, 3-4 days a week, which takes me about 30 minutes.  I am outside on hilly, uneven terrain and then on one or two days a week I lift light weights, do abs, leg lifts, etc.  I try to exercise 5-6 days a week, depending upon my schedule.  I like my run because I love to be out in the beautiful woods, so it acts as a stress reliever as well.  I enjoy the indoor weight and abs workout a lot less, but I do it.

I have been researching the barefoot running shoes, on your recommendation.  I would like to find a retailer where I can try them on, as I have very small feet and want to make sure I can get a pair that fits me.  I wear a 5 1/2 or 6.  Sometimes I need a 35 or a 36 in European sizes, depending upon the company and the fit of the shoe.  Most of their models start at 36.

Can you give me an idea of what you do recommend for O Hunters?
Posted by: weroflu, Monday, September 12, 2011, 6:21pm; Reply: 36
patty, it was good advice.

sometimes people here bash anything that is not d'adamo, which is strange because peter himself is totally level headed and pretty zen with his peer group of doctors.

it is good for people to know that cilantro can mobilize mercury and lead and for some people this can cause all sorts of problems. there is an enormous distinction between mobilization and excretion. i think the other substance you were talking about is alpha lipoic acid, something that is in many of the blood type supplements, and imo shouldn't be there for precisely this reason.

some people do fine with the lipoic acid and cilantro, so it is a very individual thing.

technically though, cilantro is not a chelator. by definition a chelator has two disulfides on it which equates to a 'claw' that can chemically grab the metal ion.

this is not to say that there aren't other ways of excreting heavy metals, but that is different from chelation.

i was put on alpha lipoic acid many years ago by someone who did not understand the chemistry properly and it really did a number on me.

some things you don't want to be casual with are mercury, lead, radiation.

you might want to read andrew cutler's books for more info on the subject
Posted by: Mark, Monday, September 12, 2011, 6:42pm; Reply: 37
Quoted from Patty H


Mark, I just ordered the book.  Thanks for the recommendation.

I run/walk three miles, 3-4 days a week, which takes me about 30 minutes.  I am outside on hilly, uneven terrain and then on one or two days a week I lift light weights, do abs, leg lifts, etc.  I try to exercise 5-6 days a week, depending upon my schedule.  I like my run because I love to be out in the beautiful woods, so it acts as a stress reliever as well.  I enjoy the indoor weight and abs workout a lot less, but I do it.

I have been researching the barefoot running shoes, on your recommendation.  I would like to find a retailer where I can try them on, as I have very small feet and want to make sure I can get a pair that fits me.  I wear a 5 1/2 or 6.  Sometimes I need a 35 or a 36 in European sizes, depending upon the company and the fit of the shoe.  Most of their models start at 36.

Can you give me an idea of what you do recommend for O Hunters?


Just find a Vibram retailer and have them help you. Don't buy it online. Fitting for a Vibram is very strange. Sometimes a complete Vibram line won't fit you, simply because your feet are too broad or too narrow.
Posted by: Patty H, Monday, September 12, 2011, 8:34pm; Reply: 38
Quoted from weroflu
patty, it was good advice.

sometimes people here bash anything that is not d'adamo, which is strange because peter himself is totally level headed and pretty zen with his peer group of doctors.

it is good for people to know that cilantro can mobilize mercury and lead and for some people this can cause all sorts of problems. there is an enormous distinction between mobilization and excretion. i think the other substance you were talking about is alpha lipoic acid, something that is in many of the blood type supplements, and imo shouldn't be there for precisely this reason.

some people do fine with the lipoic acid and cilantro, so it is a very individual thing.

technically though, cilantro is not a chelator. by definition a chelator has two disulfides on it which equates to a 'claw' that can chemically grab the metal ion.

this is not to say that there aren't other ways of excreting heavy metals, but that is different from chelation.

i was put on alpha lipoic acid many years ago by someone who did not understand the chemistry properly and it really did a number on me.

some things you don't want to be casual with are mercury, lead, radiation.

you might want to read andrew cutler's books for more info on the subject


Thank you for sharing this, weroflu.  You are exactly correct.  The second substance he talked about when I brought up the cilantro pesto was alpha lipoic acid.  I was scribbling notes so fast that I missed it, but I definitely recognize the name.

And yes, the way you described it is what he said - mobilization and excretion are two different things.  I will definitely check out Andrew Cutler's books!  According to Dr. Nash my lead and mercury are over twice the 95th percentile for females according to the CDC most recent data.  This is nothing to try on my own  :-/

If you have anything else to share, I would greatly appreciate your input!

Patty
Posted by: Patty H, Monday, September 12, 2011, 8:37pm; Reply: 39
Quoted from Mark


Just find a Vibram retailer and have them help you. Don't buy it online. Fitting for a Vibram is very strange. Sometimes a complete Vibram line won't fit you, simply because your feet are too broad or too narrow.


Thanks, Mark.  There are several in my area.  I will go shopping tomorrow!

Patty
Posted by: Chloe, Monday, September 12, 2011, 8:53pm; Reply: 40
I take Pectasol Chelation Complex daily as a general detoxifier for heavy metals, pesticides, etc.

http://www.econugenics.com/p-70-pectasol-chelation-complex.aspx
Posted by: Lin, Monday, September 12, 2011, 10:14pm; Reply: 41
Patty,
The acupuncturist told me I have mercury and has been helping me with that. I suspect I have toxins from years of eating the wrong food also, I was told that gluten can take a while to detox.  I grew up in the UK where the NIH dentists were quick to put silver fillings and almost every tooth had one, some tiny but still a lot.
I also was told I had a fair bit of radiation. I guess we all do with all the electronic stuff, perhaps some of us hold it more than others??
Your information about adding fish oils to the cilantro/chlorella sounds like it makes sense and I was recommended to get more fish oil and plenty of Vitamin D also.  The weak liver/kidneys, and gall bladder issues are also noted by the Acupuncturist.  
Lin
Posted by: weroflu, Tuesday, September 13, 2011, 5:41am; Reply: 42
some safe things to try on your own are bentonite internally and baths, and also saunas. the saunas are slow but they work over time and don't tax any of your internal organs.

the cutler books are in a league of their own in understanding the chemistry of heavy metals. i had to read the first book almost a dozen times before i understood it. be on the lookout for how sulfur foods affect your health, garlic, onions, cabbage, eggs. according the dr. cutler all mercury toxic people swing polar in one extreme to their reaction to dietary sulfur. so you will probably either feel really good or really bad on these foods. too much info to post here in a soundbite.

you might also want to look into dr. buttar whose son went on congressional record as being cured of autism via dmps chelation.

in the end i couldn't tolerate the chelators, even just a few milligrams of lipoic acid is too mjuch for me, so i do the saunas instead.

there are many roads to success; there was one person on this board that used the btd  successfully to deal with heavy metals.

dr. klinghardt is now using some sort of micronized silica to bind metals in the gut, i wonder if that works. the product is ridiculously expensive though.
Posted by: Possum, Tuesday, September 13, 2011, 9:44am; Reply: 43
Quoted from weroflu
patty, it was good advice.

sometimes people here bash anything that is not d'adamo, which is strange because peter himself is totally level headed and pretty zen with his peer group of doctors.

it is good for people to know that cilantro can mobilize mercury and lead and for some people this can cause all sorts of problems. there is an enormous distinction between mobilization and excretion. i think the other substance you were talking about is alpha lipoic acid, something that is in many of the blood type supplements, and imo shouldn't be there for precisely this reason.

some people do fine with the lipoic acid and cilantro, so it is a very individual thing.

technically though, cilantro is not a chelator. by definition a chelator has two disulfides on it which equates to a 'claw' that can chemically grab the metal ion.

this is not to say that there aren't other ways of excreting heavy metals, but that is different from chelation.

i was put on alpha lipoic acid many years ago by someone who did not understand the chemistry properly and it really did a number on me.

some things you don't want to be casual with are mercury, lead, radiation.
I appreciate the fact that you posted on all this Patty!! I had no idea re all this concerning cilantro & heavy metals etc & the binding effect!!
Posted by: Patty H, Tuesday, September 13, 2011, 12:33pm; Reply: 44
Quoted from Possum
I appreciate the fact that you posted on all this Patty!! I had no idea re all this concerning cilantro & heavy metals etc & the binding effect!!


;)
Posted by: Patty H, Tuesday, September 13, 2011, 12:35pm; Reply: 45
Quoted from Lin
Patty,
The acupuncturist told me I have mercury and has been helping me with that. I suspect I have toxins from years of eating the wrong food also, I was told that gluten can take a while to detox.  I grew up in the UK where the NIH dentists were quick to put silver fillings and almost every tooth had one, some tiny but still a lot.
I also was told I had a fair bit of radiation. I guess we all do with all the electronic stuff, perhaps some of us hold it more than others??
Your information about adding fish oils to the cilantro/chlorella sounds like it makes sense and I was recommended to get more fish oil and plenty of Vitamin D also.  The weak liver/kidneys, and gall bladder issues are also noted by the Acupuncturist.  
Lin


Lin, it sounds like your acupuncturist knows what they are doing.  Good luck and keep us informed of your progress.
Posted by: Patty H, Tuesday, September 13, 2011, 12:36pm; Reply: 46
Quoted from Chloe
I take Pectasol Chelation Complex daily as a general detoxifier for heavy metals, pesticides, etc.

http://www.econugenics.com/p-70-pectasol-chelation-complex.aspx


Thanks Chloe.  For now I think I am going to wait to try anything on my own, but once the amalgam has been removed, I will check this out!
Posted by: Patty H, Tuesday, September 13, 2011, 12:44pm; Reply: 47
Quoted from weroflu
some safe things to try on your own are bentonite internally and baths, and also saunas. the saunas are slow but they work over time and don't tax any of your internal organs.

the cutler books are in a league of their own in understanding the chemistry of heavy metals. i had to read the first book almost a dozen times before i understood it. be on the lookout for how sulfur foods affect your health, garlic, onions, cabbage, eggs. according the dr. cutler all mercury toxic people swing polar in one extreme to their reaction to dietary sulfur. so you will probably either feel really good or really bad on these foods. too much info to post here in a soundbite.

you might also want to look into dr. buttar whose son went on congressional record as being cured of autism via dmps chelation.

in the end i couldn't tolerate the chelators, even just a few milligrams of lipoic acid is too mjuch for me, so i do the saunas instead.

there are many roads to success; there was one person on this board that used the btd  successfully to deal with heavy metals.

dr. klinghardt is now using some sort of micronized silica to bind metals in the gut, i wonder if that works. the product is ridiculously expensive though.


I ordered Andrew Cutler's book yesterday.  Wish I had read this earlier . . . I am not a chemist, so it sounds like I might have a difficult time understanding it.  Oh well  :-/

I have heard about the clay baths and saunas.  In fact they were discussed at the seminar.

I don't seem to have a problem with any of the foods you listed, but as we all know, that can change.  In fact, onions used to bother my stomach.  Now I can eat them with no problem.

Thanks again for the info.
Posted by: Patty H, Tuesday, September 13, 2011, 5:00pm; Reply: 48
Quoted from Mark


Probably Klinghardt protocol. I've heard good things about it.

http://www.hbci.com/~wenonah/new/9steps.htm


Mark, below is a quote from the link you provided specifically talking about re-toxification with cilantro.  It goes on to state that cilantro should be taken with chlorella.

Quoted Text

Cilantro (Chinese Parsley)

This kitchen herb is capable of mobilizing mercury, cadmium, lead and aluminum in both bones and the central nervous system. It is probably the only effective agent in mobilizing mercury stored in the intracellular space (attached to mitochondria, tubulin, liposomes etc) and in the nucleus of the cell (reversing DNA damage of mercury). Because cilantro mobilizes more toxins then it can carry out of the body, it may flood the connective tissue (where the nerves reside) with metals, that were previously stored in safer hiding places.

This process is called re-toxification. It can easily be avoided by simultaneously giving an intestinal toxin-absorbing agent. Our definite choice is the algal organism chlorella. A recent animal study demonstrated rapid removal of aluminum from the skeleton superior to any known other detox agent.

Dosage and application of cilantro tincture: give 2 drops 2 times per day in the beginning, taken just before a meal or 30 minutes after taking chlorella (cilantro causes the gallbladder to dump bile — containing the excreted neurotoxins — into the small intestine. The bile-release occurs naturally as we are eating and is much enhanced by cilantro. If no chlorella is taken, most neurotoxins are reabsorbed on the way down the small intestine by the abundant nerve endings of the enteric nervous system). Gradually increase dose to 10 drops 3 times/day for full benefit. During the initial phase of the detox cilantro should be given 1 week on, 2–3 weeks off.

Other ways of taking cilantro: rub 5 drops twice/day into ankles for mobilization of metals in all organs, joints and structures below the diaphragm, and into the wrists for organs, joints and structures above the diaphragm. The wrists have dense autonomic innervation (axonal uptake of cilantro) and are crossed by the main lymphatic channels (lymphatic uptake).

Cilantro tea: use 10 to 20 drops in cup of hot water. Sip slowly. Clears the brain quickly of many neurotoxins. Good for headaches and other acute symptoms (joint pains, angina, headache).   Or, rub 10–15 drops into painful area. Often achieves almost instant pain relief.





Posted by: ruthiegirl, Tuesday, September 13, 2011, 5:49pm; Reply: 49
So if chorella helps get mercury out of the body by causing the gallbladder to dump bile, would eating the cilantro with fatty foods (bile is released to help digest fats) have a similar effect?
Posted by: cajun, Tuesday, September 13, 2011, 7:56pm; Reply: 50
Wow! Soooo much info....I am thankful to everyone who posted here!!!!! :K)
Great thread you guys....please keep this one going....we can all benefit from this!
Posted by: Patty H, Tuesday, September 13, 2011, 10:44pm; Reply: 51
Quoted from ruthiegirl
So if chorella helps get mercury out of the body by causing the gallbladder to dump bile, would eating the cilantro with fatty foods (bile is released to help digest fats) have a similar effect?


Why not just follow the protocol outlined in the link and use both the cilantro and chlorella?
Posted by: Patty H, Tuesday, September 13, 2011, 11:24pm; Reply: 52
Quoted from ruthiegirl
So if chorella helps get mercury out of the body by causing the gallbladder to dump bile, would eating the cilantro with fatty foods (bile is released to help digest fats) have a similar effect?


Ruthie, I just remembered something else from the seminar.  Mercury toxicity can mask itself as many other conditions.  Unfortunately I did not write them all down, as do not suffer any one of the conditions mentioned.  One of those conditions is fibromyalgia.  I seem to recall that you have been diagnosed with this?

Have you had your heavy metals tested through the Urine Metals Testing?  I noticed on the thread about oil pulling that you mentioned you have a mouth full of amalgam, much like me.

IMHO, before you try serious heavy metals detox on your own, you may want to get tested to see what you are dealing with and then figure out your plan of action, whether it be to do it on your own or to seek professional help.  I have ZERO symptoms and yet I am off the charts with mercury and lead.

Sharing and caring with the best of intentions . . . Patty
Posted by: PCUK-Positive, Wednesday, September 14, 2011, 12:02am; Reply: 53
FYI and worth a thorough read,

http://www.hbci.com/~wenonah/new/9steps.htm

Because cilantro mobilises more toxins then it can carry out of the body, it may flood the connective tissue (where the nerves reside) with metals, that were previously stored in safer hiding places.

This process is called re-detoxification. It can easily be avoided by simultaneously giving an intestinal toxin-absorbing agent. Our definite choice is the algal organism chlorella. A recent animal study demonstrated rapid removal of aluminium from the skeleton superior to any known other detox agent.

Garlic has been shown to protect the white and red blood cells from oxidative damage caused by metals in the blood stream — on their way out — and also has its own valid detoxification functions. Garlic contains numerous sulphur components, including the most valuable sulph-hydryl groups, which oxidise mercury, cadmium and lead and make these metals water-soluble. This makes it easy for the organism to excrete these substances
Posted by: Patty H, Wednesday, September 14, 2011, 12:27am; Reply: 54
Quoted from PCUK-Positive
FYI and worth a thorough read,

http://www.hbci.com/~wenonah/new/9steps.htm

Because cilantro mobilises more toxins then it can carry out of the body, it may flood the connective tissue (where the nerves reside) with metals, that were previously stored in safer hiding places.

This process is called re-detoxification. It can easily be avoided by simultaneously giving an intestinal toxin-absorbing agent. Our definite choice is the algal organism chlorella. A recent animal study demonstrated rapid removal of aluminium from the skeleton superior to any known other detox agent.

Garlic has been shown to protect the white and red blood cells from oxidative damage caused by metals in the blood stream — on their way out — and also has its own valid detoxification functions. Garlic contains numerous sulphur components, including the most valuable sulph-hydryl groups, which oxidise mercury, cadmium and lead and make these metals water-soluble. This makes it easy for the organism to excrete these substances


Great minds think alike, Policychecker.  ;D  I posted the exact same info above on ciliantro and chlorella.  ;)

Thanks for adding the part about garlic.
Posted by: PCUK-Positive, Wednesday, September 14, 2011, 12:29am; Reply: 55
Talking about which i have a headache for the first time in a long long time, perhaps over did it a bit today with my supps.

hopefully something is working and its a detox effect and not trying to kill me lol
Posted by: Patty H, Wednesday, September 14, 2011, 12:37am; Reply: 56
Quoted from PCUK-Positive
Talking about which i have a headache for the first time in a long long time, perhaps over did it a bit today with my supps.

hopefully something is working and its a detox effect and not trying to kill me lol


I hope you feel better tomorrow!  :K)
Posted by: Possum, Friday, September 16, 2011, 11:13pm; Reply: 57
Quoted from PCUK-Positive
FYI and worth a thorough read,

http://www.hbci.com/~wenonah/new/9steps.htm

Because cilantro mobilises more toxins then it can carry out of the body, it may flood the connective tissue (where the nerves reside) with metals, that were previously stored in safer hiding places.

This process is called re-detoxification. It can easily be avoided by simultaneously giving an intestinal toxin-absorbing agent. Our definite choice is the algal organism chlorella. A recent animal study demonstrated rapid removal of aluminium from the skeleton superior to any known other detox agent.

Garlic has been shown to protect the white and red blood cells from oxidative damage caused by metals in the blood stream — on their way out — and also has its own valid detoxification functions. Garlic contains numerous sulphur components, including the most valuable sulph-hydryl groups, which oxidise mercury, cadmium and lead and make these metals water-soluble. This makes it easy for the organism to excrete these substances
I have incredible trouble with sulphur & the only time I took Chlorella I had a reaction (also react to algae & other seafood) What is the best approach considering these factors... :-/

Posted by: honeybee, Friday, September 16, 2011, 11:32pm; Reply: 58
Quoted from Possum
I have incredible trouble with sulphur & the only time I took Chlorella I had a reaction (also react to algae & other seafood) What is the best approach considering these factors... :-/


I found chlorella nauseating at first, I was taking it on empty stomach or before food, then I read to take it 30mins after eating this helped allot and I no longer get nauseous taking it.
Posted by: Possum, Friday, September 16, 2011, 11:42pm; Reply: 59
Thanks but it wasn't actually nausea I was experiencing... It was my usual skin reaction & I don't think it was simply the detoxing effect as it happened so soon after taking it (as is usual with me if I react to something) & I also felt none of the other usual symptoms of detoxing ie tiredness etc :-/
Posted by: Mark, Friday, September 16, 2011, 11:57pm; Reply: 60
You need to take a multi mineral when taking chlorella. This may explain your symptoms. Chlorella takes out the good metals as well.
Posted by: Possum, Saturday, September 17, 2011, 12:02am; Reply: 61
Thanks Mark... ;) But do you reckon that would solve the reaction I have if it is to seafood/algae :-/ I get a reaction if I take glucosamine from shellfish too & my Dad was really allergic to certain shellfish (he was so sick with vomitting & diarrhea  once, he thought/wished he could die...) Mine is not so dramatic - just itching & localised hive like bumps which then break out??!! Sorry if tmi... :B
Posted by: Mark, Saturday, September 17, 2011, 12:08am; Reply: 62
Quoted from Possum
Thanks Mark... ;) But do you reckon that would solve the reaction I have if it is to seafood/algae :-/ I get a reaction if I take glucosamine from shellfish too & my Dad was really allergic to certain shellfish (he was so sick with vomitting & diarrhea  once, he thought/wished he could die...) Mine is not so dramatic - just itching & localised hive like bumps which then break out??!! Sorry if tmi... :B


I see. Well, this is not so easy to answer. If you suspect you are allergic to something, perhaps it is best to avoid it. You could also try slowly reintroducing it back into your diet.

Slow is usually best.

Perhaps someone else on the boards has a better answer...
Posted by: Patty H, Saturday, September 17, 2011, 1:07am; Reply: 63
Possum, can you see a professional to help you through your detox?  Someone who can take your possible allergy into account?  IMHO, I think we should seek professional help for this type of issue.  
Posted by: Possum, Saturday, September 17, 2011, 2:42am; Reply: 64
Mmmm might be best I guess...although I don't really have one that is into alternative practices...
Posted by: Maria Giovanna, Saturday, September 17, 2011, 7:52am; Reply: 65
That was the rational for fish oil I guess,.  ! Yes Ruthie
Posted by: Patty H, Saturday, September 17, 2011, 1:05pm; Reply: 66
Quoted from Possum
Mmmm might be best I guess...although I don't really have one that is into alternative practices...


Possum, from what I can see on this thread and others about metals detox, a chiropractor, naturopath, acupuncturist or MD can help you.  I also looked for someone who practiced functional medicine.  If you can find a dentist in your area who practices safe mercury amalgam removal, maybe they can refer you to someone who can help with heavy metals detox.
Posted by: Patty H, Saturday, September 17, 2011, 1:05pm; Reply: 67
Quoted from Maria Giovanna
That was the rational for fish oil I guess,.  ! Yes Ruthie


Yes, Maria.  The fish oil makes sense  ;)
Posted by: Patty H, Saturday, September 17, 2011, 2:04pm; Reply: 68
Quoted from Maria Giovanna
That was the rational for fish oil I guess,.  ! Yes Ruthie


I forgot to add, however, that chlorella would be lower on the food chain and also rich in chlorophyll, so maybe a better choice?
Posted by: Chloe, Saturday, September 17, 2011, 3:47pm; Reply: 69
Quoted from Mark
You need to take a multi mineral when taking chlorella. This may explain your symptoms. Chlorella takes out the good metals as well.


I've never heard that chlorella takes out good minerals/metals.  Can you please provide a link
so I can read about it. Thanks :)


I found this about minerals and how they relate to mercury on a heavy metal detoxing protocol from Dr. Mercola (I'm aware it's Dr. Mercola but the basic information comes from Dr. Klinghardt's protocol)

Mineral Replacement
It is important to have a generally healthy mineral base. The body works better with toxic metals than no metals at all. Enzymes have certain binding sites that require a metal for them to perform their function as a catalyst. When you are deficient in magnesium, sodium, zinc and other minerals, the body does not let go of the toxic metals very easily.
http://www.mercola.com/article/mercury/detox_protocol.htm
Selenium and zinc are particularly important trace minerals in mercury detoxification and should be used for most people.
Generally the citrate form of minerals works quite nicely unless one has a low blood phosphorous level. It is important to not take copper or iron though unless a clinician has examined a hair analysis and or blood work and recommended these minerals. Thorne Research has Citramins II which is citrated minerals without copper or iron.
Posted by: Mark, Saturday, September 17, 2011, 6:34pm; Reply: 70
I believe Dr. D said that if you are choosing chlorophyll, you can put it in the Sun for a couple of hours to "potentiate" it. If you don't do that, it won't work nearly as well. Whether this practice works with chlorella, I do not know.
Posted by: Patty H, Monday, September 19, 2011, 1:52am; Reply: 71
Quoted from Mark
I believe Dr. D said that if you are choosing chlorophyll, you can put it in the Sun for a couple of hours to "potentiate" it. If you don't do that, it won't work nearly as well. Whether this practice works with chlorella, I do not know.


Mark, I have never heard of this - do you just put it out in the sun ??)  Can you explain why it "potentiates" the chlorophyll?
Posted by: Mark, Monday, September 19, 2011, 3:07am; Reply: 72
Actually, I don't know why! :P

I just know someone who went to IFHI 2007, and she told me that Dr. D said that this practice "boosts collagen." It's supposed to be amazing for the skin.

-

Dr. D said this in context of a cancer patient who survived but kept her bleeding skin from the radiation years after treatment.

Unpasteurized butter and this chlorophyll practice, among other things, is what fixed the patient up (according to what my source said). (Maybe also astragalus? I forgot.)

-

I tried to find evidence of this practice through google, and--to my dismay--found nothing on the chlorophyll. Sorry I can't be more helpful. If you do find out more, we would all love to know. I would be especially interested to know if this practice works with chlorella.
Posted by: Patty H, Monday, September 19, 2011, 2:31pm; Reply: 73
Quoted from Mark
Actually, I don't know why! :P

I just know someone who went to IFHI 2007, and she told me that Dr. D said that this practice "boosts collagen." It's supposed to be amazing for the skin.

-

Dr. D said this in context of a cancer patient who survived but kept her bleeding skin from the radiation years after treatment.

Unpasteurized butter and this chlorophyll practice, among other things, is what fixed the patient up (according to what my source said). (Maybe also astragalus? I forgot.)

-

I tried to find evidence of this practice through google, and--to my dismay--found nothing on the chlorophyll. Sorry I can't be more helpful. If you do find out more, we would all love to know. I would be especially interested to know if this practice works with chlorella.


Well, it does make sense, since sunshine is required for plants to make chlorophyll.
Posted by: Mark, Wednesday, September 28, 2011, 9:32pm; Reply: 74
I've been trying to find a liquid chlorophyll without alfalfa. Everything has alfalfa in it. I found one that is made from mulberry leaf, but it contains heaps of vegetable glycerin instead of water. Not exactly what I'm looking for.

I guess I could try chlorella powder, but it's more expensive (and I wonder if it will trap the light like the liquid chlorophyll).
Posted by: Patty H, Wednesday, September 28, 2011, 10:14pm; Reply: 75
Quoted from Mark
I've been trying to find a liquid chlorophyll without alfalfa. Everything has alfalfa in it. I found one that is made from mulberry leaf, but it contains heaps of vegetable glycerin instead of water. Not exactly what I'm looking for.

I guess I could try chlorella powder, but it's more expensive (and I wonder if it will trap the light like the liquid chlorophyll).


Mark, isn't it chlorella you want, which is a type of algae?
Posted by: Mark, Wednesday, September 28, 2011, 10:26pm; Reply: 76
Not sure if chlorella will work like liquid chlorophyll by leaving it in the Sun for a bit.

Chlorella also doesn't come in liquid form. It would be nice if there was a compliant liquid chlorophyll out there for O's.

Are any O's using a compliant liquid chlorophyll besides chlorella powder?
Print page generated: Friday, November 28, 2014, 12:17am