Print Topic - Archive

BTD Forums  /  Live Right 4 Your Type  /  Os and Dairy
Posted by: 14442 (Guest), Sunday, September 4, 2011, 8:15pm
This food group has been an ongoing problem for me the last few years.  I know better and have greatly reduced it over the summer.  However, I'm constantly reading all over the Internet about the "health benefits" of dairy.  

How dairy free are you?  Do you never eat dairy or if you do, how often?  Has eliminating dairy reducded your body fat %? What really are the reasons for eliminating dairy other than that it isn't a great buidling food for Os.  Is it actually metabolically inactivating like wheat?  I was more hardcore dairy free in the early 2000s and am looking for input about why kefir should not ever be in my shopping basket again.
Posted by: ruthiegirl, Sunday, September 4, 2011, 8:28pm; Reply: 1
In the past, I discovered that consuming dairy led to nasal congestion and an increase in aggressiveness/shortened temper. I found that I didn't have these problems from goat dairy (goat milk, yogurt or kefir made from goat milk, and goat cheese) and my reactions to sheep dairy (feta cheese specifically) was milder than my reaction to cow dairy, but I still reacted.

I was dairy free, off and on, for many years. When I was doing low-carb, I came across the Paleo Diet, and cut out all dairy for about a month. I re-introduced butter with no problems, I tried cream once and felt all my symptoms return, so I've eliminated cream since that time. When I switched from low carb/Paleo to BTD, I re-introduced goat cheese, farmer cheese, feta cheese (sheep milk only) and mozzarella cheese. Somewhere in that time I discovered ghee (so easy to make! Why did i wait so long to try it?) and have been using that regularly as well. Since I did fine on butter as my only dairy product, I expect ghee to be similarly safe.

When I got SWAMI, I kept my cheese intake the same but also added in occasional paneer or ricotta (both neutral.) When I found out my secretor status, I cut out the mozzarella, feta, and farmer's cheese, and added in quark cheese (beneficial.)

However, I haven't been feeling too well lately.  I haven't noticed any obvious congestion, but I often can't smell things that my kids can smell, and my seasonal allergies have just started acting up again (tree pollen is starting to be in the air again.) I've also been having a hell of a time with my temper lately, and overall feelings of being overwhelmed and out of control. I decided that I'll finish up the current batch of quark cheese in the fridge, but then I won't make any more for a few months. I'm going to go back to "no dairy but butter and ghee" and see if that makes me feel better.

I may even try making quark from goat milk, rather than cow's milk, when I make it again. I might just have a problem with the proteins in cow's milk, regardless of what SWAMI says about certain cheeses for me.
Posted by: Lola, Sunday, September 4, 2011, 8:34pm; Reply: 2
find out which dairy products suit your GT

there are online videos to making your own paneer, kefir, ....or other, depending on your specific variables
Posted by: Beachgirl, Sunday, September 4, 2011, 8:47pm; Reply: 3
Other than occasional butter (very, very rare these days) I'm trying to go completely dairy free.  I have crazy allergies, asthma & an immune system that reacts at the drop of a hat.  I've only been doing the BTD for a week & the GTD for a day, so it's a little early to tell if it's making a difference in allergies for me.  Yogurt/ kefir have never seemed to give me problems in the past, but I've never eliminated them before, either.  After a month or so of no wheat/ no dairy I'll be able to tell better.  (hopefully)   :)  I'm not a big cheesehead, so I won't miss that part.   ;)
Posted by: Lola, Sunday, September 4, 2011, 8:56pm; Reply: 4
http://www.dadamo.com/B2blogs/blogs/index.php/2009/01/15/butyrate-and-ghee?blog=27
important to gut health in general, depending on type, variables, physiology and more.....Dr D has computed all this and more into his sophisticated SWAMI software :)
Posted by: 14442 (Guest), Sunday, September 4, 2011, 9:03pm; Reply: 5
No my question has to do with weight gain/fat gain.  Dr. D says in LR4YT that dairy causes "undesirable weight gain."  I'm wondering why this is.  It's a whole food group which I could add to my meal or at least have once a week as a "cheat meal".  Congestion is a problem for me too if I have it too often; it is also pro inflammatory for Os.  But what really concerns me is whether or not it stalls the release of body fat.  
Posted by: Beachgirl, Sunday, September 4, 2011, 9:08pm; Reply: 6
I'm not sure about the fat yet...still waiting for that first magical pound to disappear!   ;)  Even at my thinnest/ most toned, I ate yogurt & it never seemed to be an issue, but I'm certainly no expert.
Posted by: 14442 (Guest), Sunday, September 4, 2011, 9:12pm; Reply: 7
I want my kefir!!!!!!
Posted by: ruthiegirl, Sunday, September 4, 2011, 9:59pm; Reply: 8
When I was doing low-carb, I found that I often lost weight well when I was including cheeses, but had many stalls when I went Paleo and cut the dairy out. Overall health improved, but I didn't see any definite weight loss from it. But then, I've always had problems losing weight, and I never really found anything that consistenly allows me to lose weight. I haven't been at a healthy weight since I got pregnant with my first child (and she'll be 17 in December.)

About the only certainty with my diet and weight is that overdoing the carbs makes me  gain weight.
Posted by: 14442 (Guest), Sunday, September 4, 2011, 11:59pm; Reply: 9
Maybe some of the Hunters will chime in.  Dairy really ought to be a once a week treat and imo ought to be something fermented.  But no not really sure about that.  Just because I like a food doesn't mean it's good for me.
Posted by: David, Monday, September 5, 2011, 8:15am; Reply: 10
I read this thread, and then the O's and % body fat thread and posted some of dairy comments there. Posted another one about diary in the gallbladder thread about the benefits of beets.

I find myself wondering why almost all the O's I've seen in the forums who have done Swami are listed as Explorer or Gatherer instead of Hunter?

I have gone through the routine of helping quite a few O+ people figure out what they are and most of them came out as Hunter... Quite a few of them were born in Nigeria.

It is sounding like Swami has a more inclusive questionnaire than the book, that takes in consideration the individuals health history, activity level, emotional nature or personality characteristics etc. or what else?
Posted by: Henriette Bsec, Monday, September 5, 2011, 8:43am; Reply: 11
Well I have noticed that Danish O´s seem to have less problems with dairy compared to what I read here.
My guess is that while dairy isn´t good for O´s maybe living in a society where the lactase persistence is quite common, makes it less bad for O´s.
In Dk less than 4 % of the adult population is lactose intolerent and cassein allergy is very rare.

My daughter gets more dairy than she ought. :B (hard when you live wth a B  ::))
Especially cheese and butter are very common in her diet.
She gets some whipping cream and a little creme fraise as well- but rarely drinking milk or yoghurt.
One interesting thing is that both she, my mum and step dad( all O types seem to do better on raw milk than pastuerized milk. Maybe the lipase and lactase in raw milk makes it less problematic  :-/

Posted by: PCUK-Positive, Monday, September 5, 2011, 12:17pm; Reply: 12
If you have a problem with dairy then avoid nightshades too (they make it worse) or to put it simply follow the BTD.
Posted by: Andrea AWsec, Monday, September 5, 2011, 12:52pm; Reply: 13
Quoted from ruthiegirl
I
I may even try making quark from goat milk, rather than cow's milk, when I make it again. I might just have a problem with the proteins in cow's milk, regardless of what SWAMI says about certain cheeses for me.


Or you have something else going on in you body....

Sometimes the foods that heal us don't always make us feel good.



Posted by: balletomane, Monday, September 5, 2011, 1:48pm; Reply: 14
David, a Hunter here :)

Sahara, I'm not entirely sure about the weight gain/fat gain issue related to dairy. But I go with my SWAMI, which allows a small portion of butter or ghee per week (1 tsp) and 2-4 oz of cheese per week. I only have five types of cheeses that are allowed, of which only 3 are available where I live. So I stick to that portion and find that the hard cheeses actually help my digestion and does not make me gain weight as long as I don't go overboard with the portion.

In the past, I ate a lot of "avoid" dairy products and I did gain a lot of weight... I was very puffy.

Henriette, I have read somewhere that Scandinavians are more lactose tolerant than any other ethnic groups. My husband, a Swede, seems to do well with dairy products even though many of them should be "avoids" for him.
Posted by: O in Virginia, Monday, September 5, 2011, 2:21pm; Reply: 15
I cheat occasionally with dairy.  I love cheese and ice cream, but I don't indulge often.  If I keep my portions miniscule I can get by with no problem except for a bit of congestion.  I haven't noticed any mood changes after eating dairy.  If I eat more than I should - my digestion will let me know it later.  I never suffered from lactose intolerance that I was aware of pre BTD.  But now that I have avoided dairy (mostly) for the past year, I do find it has a more immediate effect on me when I indulge.  My only superfood/beneficial dairy on swami is ghee (which I use often) and Indian buffalo milk, which I have not seen around here.  Quark is a neutral and I use that occasionally to make a cheesy rice noodle casserole (comfort food), although store bought quark is more like sour cream, and it is good to use with anything that you might enjoy with sour cream.  Cheese/dairy DOES make me gain weight, for sure.  I notice that the next day after having it.  I don't track body fat percentages.  I have enough to depress me at the moment.   :-/
Posted by: ruthiegirl, Monday, September 5, 2011, 3:05pm; Reply: 16
Quoted from Andrea AWsec


Or you have something else going on in you body....

Sometimes the foods that heal us don't always make us feel good.





OK, but if I'm getting the needed probiotics from fermented veggies, and the needed dairy fats from ghee, why would I *need* quark cheese?
Posted by: ABJoe, Monday, September 5, 2011, 3:28pm; Reply: 17
Quoted from ruthiegirl
OK, but if I'm getting the needed probiotics from fermented veggies, and the needed dairy fats from ghee, why would I *need* quark cheese?

I'm not a food scientist, but my supposition is that a mix of nutrients would be helpful.  It is hard to know what all micronutrients (or the balance) you may be needing.

I know that there are days when I try to eat one member of the cabbage family, but can't and actually need a different one...  I suppose the body knows what it needs at the time and can get more from one source than another.  It has prompted me to expand the variety in my diet...
Posted by: PCUK-Positive, Monday, September 5, 2011, 6:52pm; Reply: 18
also don't wear tight clothes.
Posted by: Brighid45, Monday, September 5, 2011, 7:03pm; Reply: 19
I have the same reactions ruthiegirl does to cow, goat and sheep milk and cheeses. Ghee is my favorite good quality fat. It's the only food of dairy origin I still eat, aside from a little pecorino or manchego. I don't like what dairy does to me-bloating, weight gain, mood swings, congestion, inflammation of my arthritis--so I leave it alone.
Posted by: 14922 (Guest), Monday, September 5, 2011, 8:59pm; Reply: 20
Quoted from 14442
But what really concerns me is whether or not it stalls the release of body fat.  


It absolutely stalls the release of body fat for me! In fact, I gain immediately. The day I eat like 1 oz of cheese for example, the next day I can gain almost 1 inch of fat on my hips. That's NO JOKE. I measure myself everyday, so that's how I know.

Dairy is the worst thing possible for me to eat when it comes to body fat. As for the rest of the "health benefits", I'm not so sure.
Posted by: 14922 (Guest), Monday, September 5, 2011, 9:00pm; Reply: 21
Quoted from PCUK-Positive
also don't wear tight clothes.


Ha!  ;D
Posted by: 14922 (Guest), Monday, September 5, 2011, 9:02pm; Reply: 22
Quoted from PCUK-Positive
If you have a problem with dairy then avoid nightshades too (they make it worse) or to put it simply follow the BTD.


So a caprese salad is definite no-no
Posted by: jetsgirl15, Monday, September 5, 2011, 11:22pm; Reply: 23
[quote from Sahara] [No my question has to do with weight gain/fat gain.  Dr. D says in LR4YT that dairy causes "undesirable weight gain."  I'm wondering why this is.  It's a whole food group which I could add to my meal or at least have once a week as a "cheat meal".  Congestion is a problem for me too if I have it too often; it is also pro inflammatory for Os.  But what really concerns me is whether or not it stalls the release of body fat. ]

All I can say is that when I realized that it was dairy causing all my intestinal distress and gave it up completely, I lost 17 pounds in 3 weeks!!!  And I feel soooooo much better now! I follow the GTD for Gatherers and while I still do miss some foods, I don't miss them bad enough to want to feel that sick again!  :)
Posted by: Possum, Monday, September 5, 2011, 11:36pm; Reply: 24
I never feel sick or have any real congested reaction eating dairy (except milk) but I had got into the (bad) habit on nibbling on cheese too often & had certainly noticed the weight gain over winter ::) Now that I am not having it in the house so can really resist, I have lost a kg (approx 2lbs) over night :D
Posted by: jennyg, Tuesday, September 6, 2011, 12:03am; Reply: 25
I have noticed if I eat dairy, ESPECIALLY ice cream or non compliant cheeses, I gain weight the next day, and takes a couple of days to a week to come back off depending on how much i eat. I also feel bloated and have trouble with constipation. It's hard for me to stay away sometimes, but every time I eat it I greatly regret it.  :'(
Posted by: PCUK-Positive, Tuesday, September 6, 2011, 12:38am; Reply: 26
dairy, chocolate, sweets, chips. they all put on weight for me overnight and take nearly a week to remove, not that i need to worry about weight too much, but i hate being beaten by things lol

Apart from particularly attractive, gentle women, of course ;)
Posted by: Possum, Tuesday, September 6, 2011, 1:00am; Reply: 27
:D
Posted by: O in Virginia, Tuesday, September 6, 2011, 1:09am; Reply: 28
If I could lose 17 lbs in three weeks I'd gladly give up dairy.   :-/
Posted by: Possum, Tuesday, September 6, 2011, 1:14am; Reply: 29
Ok the race is on hey OinV???!!
Posted by: O in Virginia, Tuesday, September 6, 2011, 1:30am; Reply: 30
Quoted from Possum
Ok the race is on hey OinV???!!


17 lbs in three weeks?  Maybe if I were to become ill.   :-/
Posted by: Possum, Tuesday, September 6, 2011, 1:31am; Reply: 31
Nooo ::) I mean as something to aim for ;)
Posted by: O in Virginia, Tuesday, September 6, 2011, 1:32am; Reply: 32
Quoted from Possum
Nooo ::) I mean as something to aim for ;)


Oh, I see.  Ok!  :)
Posted by: David, Tuesday, September 6, 2011, 2:06am; Reply: 33
Dairy ie: milks, cheeses, ice-cream and yogurt had always been a staple and comfort food for me. I would have to say that the dairy caused congestion. Thirty years ago, I began to notice that when I moved away from whole milk to 2% and then to skim products congestion issues lessened with each stage of distancing myself from something in the milk proteins or fats.

The only thing I can identify that I could say ever put ant weight on me is long term periods of eating a lot of oatmeal cookies or extended periods of inactivity.
Posted by: 14442 (Guest), Tuesday, September 6, 2011, 3:38am; Reply: 34
I've been off wheat several months why not ditch dairy too.  This trainer says he noticed many of his clients are unable to tolerate either food:

http://www.truthaboutabs.com/2-foods-beware-weight-gain.html
Posted by: David, Tuesday, September 6, 2011, 5:16am; Reply: 35
Sahara, interesting question.... and link.   Working on it!

There are tons of sites which advocate using milk.... to gain weight. I remember the first time I saw milk being used to gain weight, intentionally. At lunch in High-school the football players guzzled as much as they could... to gain weight. And they did! Millions do it still.

It is available everywhere and massive commercial expenditures have been made to tell you do drink it..... Every Day. I'd bet that it goes home in more shopping bags than apples do.

Milk Fat is Fat is Fat.. It is a high energy source in a small exceptionally convenient package.
Posted by: Henriette Bsec, Tuesday, September 6, 2011, 7:23am; Reply: 36
[quote=15832
Milk Fat is Fat is Fat.. It is a high energy source in a small exceptionally convenient package. [/quote]

That is a very much one size fits all approach  ;)

Fat does not make all people fat- actually upping my fat intake ( especially only using full fat dairy and plenty of butter ) makes me loose weight .
Full fat dairy is diamond and superfoods for me- while no and low fat neutral.
Avoiding sugar and most grains = less faton my body as well.

My o daughter is natural slim but I can see ehen she has been eating to much grains ( even spelt and rice) she gets fat on tummy- while if she eat a low grain high butter/oliveoil diet she stays slim.

Posted by: Drea, Tuesday, September 6, 2011, 4:03pm; Reply: 37
Quoted from 14442
I want my kefir!!!!!!


Have you considered making your own kefir at home? Passionprincess is doing this (although she is a B) with really good results.

Posted by: ruthiegirl, Tuesday, September 6, 2011, 4:29pm; Reply: 38
It's not a matter of making it at home  vs buying it in the store. If kefir is an avoid, it's an avoid. Similarly Drea, beef from a happy grass-fed cow would still be a toxin for you.
Posted by: Drea, Tuesday, September 6, 2011, 7:09pm; Reply: 39
Sorry, I wasn't aware that kefir was an avoid. :B
Posted by: Goldie, Tuesday, September 6, 2011, 8:40pm; Reply: 40
the heading here is really a contradiction.. for me dairy is a cheat and that is way more then I would prefere.. I love feeling good.. I love my strong bones. I love BTD from the beginning to end.. Geno is more forgiving, but not better..
Posted by: jennyg, Tuesday, September 6, 2011, 9:47pm; Reply: 41
Quoted from PCUK-Positive
i hate being beaten by things lol

Apart from particularly attractive, gentle women, of course ;)


HAHAHAHAHA!!!  ;D
Posted by: 14442 (Guest), Tuesday, September 6, 2011, 9:56pm; Reply: 42
Quoted from jennyg
I have noticed if I eat dairy, ESPECIALLY ice cream or non compliant cheeses, I gain weight the next day, and takes a couple of days to a week to come back off depending on how much i eat. I also feel bloated and have trouble with constipation. It's hard for me to stay away sometimes, but every time I eat it I greatly regret it.  :'(


Yes I've noticed this also.  Sniff, it's a hard food to break up with.  But break up we shall......   ;D

Posted by: Possum, Tuesday, September 6, 2011, 10:06pm; Reply: 43
Second day of avoiding dairy - another lb down :D I even have had several brown rice (home made) crackers both nights...with homemade butter 8)
Posted by: Munchkin76, Tuesday, September 6, 2011, 10:12pm; Reply: 44
Another Hunter here.

Individuality is great isn't it!  I find I don't really gain weight at all from cheeses, but then I don't really want to eat them that much.  I've always been slim.  With my new Swami (post being re-tested as a secretor) I get a lot more cheeses than I did as a nonnie - I eat more than I did before and I've actually lost 14 pounds in the last 4 months acutally eating more food  :o  I didn't really have it to lose in a way, but I'm really happy with where I am now in terms of energy, well being and congestion.

We are all individuals so I would say, if cheese doesn't serve you - don't serve it.... on biscuits, toast, salads, raclettes................  :D
Posted by: David, Tuesday, September 6, 2011, 10:49pm; Reply: 45
Henriette
re: Milk Fat is Fat is Fat.. It is a high energy source in a small exceptionally convenient package. [/quote]

That is a very much one size fits all approach  

Fat does not make all people fat- actually upping my fat intake ... makes me loose weight .

Yea! Fat is also good stuff! Essential fatty acids, Omega's, a great source of energy, slows digestion, burns slower, diminishes cravings and appetite.
Posted by: 14442 (Guest), Tuesday, September 6, 2011, 11:09pm; Reply: 46
What do you guys think about whey protein?
Posted by: David, Wednesday, September 7, 2011, 3:58am; Reply: 47
I have seen the discussions about protein for O's. Over the years I have tried soy and whey protein powders for smoothies. I seemed to tolerate the whey better but it still did not feel energizing.... just filling. I did not notice if it was whey concentrates or whey isolates.

My girlfriend at the time liked protein fruit smoothies every morning. I did a lot better with eggs. I think she was a BT A with a big sweet tooth. She liked to put Knudsen's electrolyte drink in it with frozen banana, ground flax seed, flax oil, strawberries or blueberries, almond milk, liquid calcium/magnesium. It was delicious... and It was nerve wracking to me when my blood sugar would drop a few hours later.
Posted by: 14922 (Guest), Wednesday, September 7, 2011, 9:02pm; Reply: 48
Quoted from jennyg
I have noticed if I eat dairy, ESPECIALLY ice cream or non compliant cheeses, I gain weight the next day, and takes a couple of days to a week to come back off depending on how much i eat. I also feel bloated and have trouble with constipation. It's hard for me to stay away sometimes, but every time I eat it I greatly regret it.  :'(


That's exactly what happens to me too.
Posted by: 14442 (Guest), Wednesday, September 7, 2011, 10:38pm; Reply: 49
I may buy the whey isolate as Mark suggested but otherwise it's over other than the few dry cheeses on the Hunter list.  Yayyyyyyyy!
Posted by: jennyg, Thursday, September 8, 2011, 12:51am; Reply: 50
Quoted from 14922


That's exactly what happens to me too.


and MAAAAN is it annoying! I ate cheese over the weekend after FINALLY dropping 4 of the 12 pounds I need to lose and BAM, hello 3 more pounds! well, no one to blame but myself, onward and upward, or should I say, DOWNWARD  ;D
Posted by: 14442 (Guest), Thursday, September 8, 2011, 3:08am; Reply: 51
It finally occurred to me today that pasteurized dairy is in fact almost a junk food.  
Posted by: ABJoe, Thursday, September 8, 2011, 3:21am; Reply: 52
Quoted from 14442
It finally occurred to me today that pasteurized dairy is in fact almost a junk food.  

Almost????  Oh sorry, my cynicism is showing...  
Posted by: marjorie, Thursday, September 8, 2011, 3:32am; Reply: 53
I have been dairy free for about 5 years, and I feel much better. Typically, everytime I try to introduce dairy back into my life I get: constipated, psoriasis acts up, moody. So, I believe it is not an option for me. However, to each its own:)
Posted by: ruthiegirl, Thursday, September 8, 2011, 5:33pm; Reply: 54
Quoted from 14442
What do you guys think about whey protein?


It's an avoid for me on SWAMI. I don't buy it or use it. The O's in the family shouldn't be using it, and the B in the family doesn't need a processed protein source- he eats enough "real foods" including whole milk.
Posted by: 14442 (Guest), Thursday, September 8, 2011, 10:46pm; Reply: 55
Quoted from marjorie
I have been dairy free for about 5 years, and I feel much better. Typically, everytime I try to introduce dairy back into my life I get: constipated, psoriasis acts up, moody. So, I believe it is not an option for me. However, to each its own:)


How about the weight thingie?  Correlations?
Posted by: marjorie, Friday, September 9, 2011, 10:22pm; Reply: 56
Quoted from 14442


How about the weight thingie?  Correlations?


Weight is low with NO DAIRY:)
Posted by: 14442 (Guest), Saturday, September 10, 2011, 8:53pm; Reply: 57
Quoted from marjorie


Weight is low with NO DAIRY:)


My weight is low it's my body fat bwha ha ha ha ha  ;D
Posted by: 14922 (Guest), Sunday, September 11, 2011, 10:39pm; Reply: 58
Quoted from jennyg


and MAAAAN is it annoying! I ate cheese over the weekend after FINALLY dropping 4 of the 12 pounds I need to lose and BAM, hello 3 more pounds! well, no one to blame but myself, onward and upward, or should I say, DOWNWARD  ;D


Yes it is WAY annoying! I agree
Posted by: 14442 (Guest), Sunday, September 18, 2011, 6:31pm; Reply: 59
I admit, I will eat the melted cheese on the chili stew I order at one of the places I go.  And that's it!  Much happier almost a month off dairy again.  What a food..... ::)
Posted by: EquiPro, Sunday, September 18, 2011, 8:05pm; Reply: 60
Dairy is a weird one for me.  First, it is one of my very favorite food groups and I ate a very high proportion of dairy throughout my entire life until originally trying the BTD and then going Vegan.  I love dairy and have almost no discernible reactions to it....eating it doesn't even impede me losing weight!

HOWEVER, I have come to realize that it is a trigger food for me and that I have to be very, very careful with it.  I truly think it is because most dairy is eaten with starch and THAT is the combo of which I have to be the most careful.  Think about it...we almost always eat:

-milk with cereal, cookies, sandwiches, cake.  While we occasionally want to just drink a glass of cold milk (I do, anyway), it is much easier to NOT eat milk if you keep it away from it's starch partner.  After all, who really thinks of drinking a glass of milk, or pouring milk on, let's say, saute'd zucchini?

-cheese with pasta, on bread (grilled cheese, pizza, etc.), mixed in with rice, served with beans, on crackers.  Cheese IS tougher because there are times when cheese is great all by itself, but, realistically, it's still more common and easier to eat it with starch than alone.  

-butter on pasta, bread, in cookies, on potatoes, on rice.  While I don't limit butter much, it's very interesting to be completely open to eating butter, yet limiting grains because it opens your eyes to how much butter is eaten on or with grains, but so much less so without them.  

I don't really like ice cream, so it's not an issue for me.  When I want it, I eat it.

HOWEVER, I truly DO love cheese, so what I do is I stay within the framework of the cheeses that are allowed on my SWAMI, but I don't particularly stay within the suggested portions.  This keeps me from getting into other cheeses.  So, I eat Feta nearly every day on my salad or scrambled with my eggs.  I eat cottage cheese as a way to stave off a starch craving, and, AMAZINGLY it almost always works.  If I feel like I just have to have some grains, if I eat 1/4 to 1/2 a cup of cottage cheese, it will usually nip the craving in the bud enough for me to pass on it.

I am very wary of milk. I love, love, love milk, but it always involved cereal, which is a big no-no for me, so I avoid milk at all costs.

So there you have it.  As far as I can tell, I'm non-reactive to almost all dairy - at least as I am able to tell, BUT, since I love dairy so much and it's so easy for me to overeat it, I try to limit it to my SWAMI-compliant ones and I eat those as I find that I need to in order to stay away from the non-compliant ones.
Posted by: ruthiegirl, Sunday, September 18, 2011, 9:45pm; Reply: 61
Butter is quite tasty on veggies, even without starch!
Posted by: Possum, Monday, September 19, 2011, 12:50am; Reply: 62
I agree ;)
Posted by: weroflu, Friday, September 30, 2011, 10:37am; Reply: 63
I was off milk for over 20 years, and thought it was just not suitable for humans or for O's. Recently discovered that if I boil pasteurized milk it works really well. Live and learn. This was from ayurveda where they always recommend boiling milk, it has to do with pasteurization not being complete enough to break down the proteins. I was very skeptical about it, but it worked.


As for cheeses i do well on really well cooked, almost burnt cheeses like on pizza. Mozzarella i think is good for hunters.

Interesting for me that pizza is ok if i eat it really oily/greasy. Extra oil makes the bread part less toxic for me for some reason, or adding a high fat cheese.

ice cream was an addiction for me for a long time, but it caused diarrhea. but, strangely it was the only food that gave me sustainble energy, i could not exercise at all without it. one time in school i did something like 1000 situps after gorging on ice cream. the only thing i was able to figure out about this is that straight sugar was a better energy source than grains, and maybe the sodium also was good for me. maybe with improperly functioning liver the sugar/fat combo works as a direct fuel source for muscle like the mct in coconut oil.
Posted by: PCUK-Positive, Friday, September 30, 2011, 10:58am; Reply: 64
Quoted from weroflu
ice cream was an addiction for me for a long time, but it caused diarrhoea. but, strangely it was the only food that gave me sustainable energy, i could not exercise at all without it. one time in school i did something like 1000 situps after gorging on ice cream. the only thing i was able to figure out about this is that straight sugar was a better energy source than grains, and maybe the sodium also was good for me. maybe with improperly functioning liver the sugar/fat combo works as a direct fuel source for muscle like the mct in coconut oil.


You may find this information interesting.

1st -Why We Crave Our Food Allergens
Part of the addictive effect of our food allergens is because eating our allergens can cause the same effects in our body as taking drugs like morphine. Another way of looking at the addiction to food allergens is that it is more like an addiction to amphetamines. This stimulation provided to the body by consuming an allergen is like a shock to the system, but a stimulating shock. Some people may experience feeling very well the day before they come down with an illness or a return of their symptoms. This is the same effect as when we eat our allergens and feel well at first.
One of the best things that I can hear from a patient when I tell them that they need to give up a food allergen is that, “It is going to be so hard because I love bagels, or I love eggs, or I can’t do without my milk. These words tell me that the person has an addictive attachment to the food.


and 2nd http://drbass.com/addiction.html

Posted by: Patty H, Friday, September 30, 2011, 12:24pm; Reply: 65
Sahara, why don't you consider going on the elimination diet and then adding the compliant dairy back in once you have done the elimination diet for a couple of weeks.  None of us here can tell you how the kefir will react with your body, due to your individuality.  I have a copy of the elimination diet I can get you if you PM me.

Kefir is a black dot for me, but I have not added it back.  I can only have one serving of dairy per week.  Uusally I try to save that up for when I go out to a friends' house.  I will bring manchego cheese and rice crackers so that I know for sure I will have an appetizer I can eat.  My husband and I are very social, so eating at other people's homes does become a challenge.
Posted by: Patty H, Friday, September 30, 2011, 12:29pm; Reply: 66
Quoted Text
Milk Fat is Fat is Fat.. It is a high energy source in a small exceptionally convenient package.

[/quote]

That is a very much one size fits all approach  ;)

Fat does not make all people fat- actually upping my fat intake ( especially only using full fat dairy and plenty of butter ) makes me loose weight .
Full fat dairy is diamond and superfoods for me- while no and low fat neutral.
Avoiding sugar and most grains = less faton my body as well.

My o daughter is natural slim but I can see ehen she has been eating to much grains ( even spelt and rice) she gets fat on tummy- while if she eat a low grain high butter/oliveoil diet she stays slim.

[/quote]

Yes, but for a Hunter this would not be the case.  Most Hunters are only allowed a tiny bit of dairy once a week.  So I would agree with David on this - "Milk Fat is Fat is Fat" and if a Hunter cannot break down the milk fat, it stands to reason that it can make a Hunter gain weight.
Posted by: Patty H, Friday, September 30, 2011, 12:31pm; Reply: 67
Quoted from ruthiegirl
It's not a matter of making it at home  vs buying it in the store. If kefir is an avoid, it's an avoid. Similarly Drea, beef from a happy grass-fed cow would still be a toxin for you.


Kefir is a black dot for me, not an avoid.
Posted by: O in Virginia, Friday, September 30, 2011, 2:05pm; Reply: 68
So how does one actually tackle an addiction to an avoid, cold turkey?  Some other way?
Posted by: Patty H, Friday, September 30, 2011, 2:56pm; Reply: 69
O in V, we are all different and I have seen many people who wean themselves off of avoids.  I, for one, went cold turkey.  I just works better for me.  Coffee was tough for me to give up, so I just went out and bought a large supply of green tea and drank that every morning.

Now I can have coffee infrequently and I am not tempted to go back to the habit daily.  In fact, our daughter finished college and has moved home.  She drinks coffee every morning and I am not tempted.
Posted by: Possum, Friday, September 30, 2011, 10:53pm; Reply: 70
Interesting - I haven't had any dairy now for quite a few weeks, or any coffee for several weeks, but this morning I decided to test things by having a coffee with a small amount of cream... Enjoyed it, but within the hour I noticed I sniffed & (sorry if tmi) sure enough, slight bit of mucous had formed... Guess that was a once in a while treat?! :D
Posted by: O in Virginia, Friday, September 30, 2011, 11:10pm; Reply: 71
Patti H, coffee was easy for me to give up, much easier than I anticipated.  

Dairy also gives me the sniffles, Possum, but doesn't upset my digestion much, unless I overdo it.

I have lifelong addiction/love for sweets.   :-/  I have given up wheat, corn, dairy (pretty much), coffee, pork, grains in general, and all kinds of other things, and I don't miss them much.  But my sweet tooth has me by the throat.
Posted by: Possum, Saturday, October 1, 2011, 2:25am; Reply: 72
Quoted from O in Virginia
...my sweet tooth has me by the throat.
The visual (& trying to imagine the logistics of it) is too funny :D However, I well know the outworking may not be ;)

Posted by: Patty H, Saturday, October 1, 2011, 2:50am; Reply: 73
Quoted from O in Virginia
Patti H, coffee was easy for me to give up, much easier than I anticipated.  

Dairy also gives me the sniffles, Possum, but doesn't upset my digestion much, unless I overdo it.

I have lifelong addiction/love for sweets.   :-/  I have given up wheat, corn, dairy (pretty much), coffee, pork, grains in general, and all kinds of other things, and I don't miss them much.  But my sweet tooth has me by the throat.


O in V, you are preaching to the choir here!  I used to be a pastry chef :o  Giving up sugar, for me, took much longer, but I started many years ago, well before the BTD/GTD.  I learned to bake because I LOVE sugar and sweets  ;D  Once I got my sugar addiction under control, I limited my sugar intake to special occassions or special cheats.  I am sort of a sugar snob - unless someone can make something better than I can, I will not eat it.  I also am ok with just passing it up all together, which is what I do now.  If I am at a wedding or a birthday party, I will partake of the cake so as not to be rude and to make it a special treat, but even if we go out to dinner now and everyone else gets dessert, I will pass.  It's not always easy, but I do understand that sugar can be a very slippery slope  :-/
Posted by: ambermac, Wednesday, September 5, 2012, 4:43am; Reply: 74
I'm an O- hunter, i'm trying to loose a little weight but i have a jar of goats cheese in the fridge ... because I'm trying to cut down the amount I eat i put a little bit on the salad I have with my fish for dinner... bad idea? or do you think i could get away with it?  :-/
Posted by: ambermac, Wednesday, September 5, 2012, 4:44am; Reply: 75
besides maybe butter and I'm going to try and introduce ghee (superfood) its probably going to be the only dairy i have (feta is neutral for me)
Posted by: Lola, Wednesday, September 5, 2012, 6:22am; Reply: 76
Quoted Text
bad idea? or do you think i could get away with it?


let swami do the guess work for you!


http://www.4yourtype.com/swamixp_video.asp
http://www.dadamo.com/media/swami.htm
http://www.dadamo.com/media/gtd.htm
find out how food rates for you individually, given your personal variables.
Posted by: 24474 (Guest), Monday, November 26, 2012, 1:29am; Reply: 77
When I was trying it loose fat I found that having dairy made it nearly impssible to make visible progress. Milk shakes, yogurts, cheeses and cream would holt progress for a week or more. When I used to have milk shakes and cereal with dairy I would lob on pounds over a few weeks. Now I strictly follow BTD and don't eat any bread, grain, flour, beans, corn and dairy as well as a personal choice of no processed food and no sugar, honey, agave etc and my fat runs away by it self without strenuous exersice.

From experience I can vouch for complying with BTD on this matter; remove completely for the best health of your life.

When I removed all avoids completely as we'll as all substitutes (soy milk etc) after about a month I started feeling like never before and I'll never go back.
Posted by: aussielady582, Monday, November 26, 2012, 3:51am; Reply: 78
well done, CJ - good to hear your progress!
Posted by: AnnaSKB, Monday, November 26, 2012, 6:53am; Reply: 79
My husband's an O+ Hunter, and he went from a 38" to 34" pants..We are OFF gluten, changed from wheat to bread made with rice flour.  When he cheats and has wheat or anything made with it he gains a pound or two for 3 days, then loses it again, then  a few days later cheats again and the same happens...when he doesn't eat wheat or wheat products he either maintains or loses a lb or some ounces.
Follow the SWAMI superfoods, your best bet...
Posted by: marjorie, Monday, November 26, 2012, 4:11pm; Reply: 80
Quoted from 24474
When I was trying it loose fat I found that having dairy made it nearly impssible to make visible progress. Milk shakes, yogurts, cheeses and cream would holt progress for a week or more. When I used to have milk shakes and cereal with dairy I would lob on pounds over a few weeks. Now I strictly follow BTD and don't eat any bread, grain, flour, beans, corn and dairy as well as a personal choice of no processed food and no sugar, honey, agave etc and my fat runs away by it self without strenuous exersice.

From experience I can vouch for complying with BTD on this matter; remove completely for the best health of your life.

When I removed all avoids completely as we'll as all substitutes (soy milk etc) after about a month I started feeling like never before and I'll never go back.


do you eat alot of meat?
Posted by: chrissyA, Tuesday, November 27, 2012, 2:51pm; Reply: 81
Good job CJ!!! Welcome :)
Posted by: Marc121, Wednesday, November 28, 2012, 2:26am; Reply: 82
I`m not sure but the only dairy that I craved for is Cheez whiz(real canadian cheddar).
I always feel good after consuming it.
But since I think I don`t consume enough vitamin D and calcium, I think that is the cause of my craving :-/.
Has anyone of you experienced it? :-/
Posted by: ABJoe, Wednesday, November 28, 2012, 2:46am; Reply: 83
Quoted from Marc121
I`m not sure but the only dairy that I craved for is Cheez whiz(real canadian cheddar).
I always feel good after consuming it.

Does Cheez whiz even count as "dairy"?   ??)

If it is calcium you are after, there many vegetables that contain quantities of it and are much better for you...  Just saying!   ;)
Posted by: marjorie, Wednesday, November 28, 2012, 3:16am; Reply: 84
Quoted from Marc121
I`m not sure but the only dairy that I craved for is Cheez whiz(real canadian cheddar).
I always feel good after consuming it.
But since I think I don`t consume enough vitamin D and calcium, I think that is the cause of my craving :-/.
Has anyone of you experienced it? :-/



Nope, I do crave frozen yogurt now and then, but cant recall the last time I had any.

Cheez whiz... omg, have not heard that term in forever! Eat some broccoli or maybe drink some almond milk to ease the craving.
Posted by: aussielady582, Wednesday, November 28, 2012, 3:54am; Reply: 85
calcium - broccoli, bok choi, leafy greens, raw spinach, sesame seed, tahini, almond (other nuts); sea vegetables.   Plus some say to NOT over-eat the meat/fish/poultry as too much protein can deplete the calcium from bones/teeth in order to keep the blood alkaline at 7.4ph; 80% alkaline foods daily (fruit, vegetables mostly plus quinoa/amaranth, millet, almonds) and about 20% acid foods (animal protein, most seeds, nuts, grains, legumes) - eat slowly and chew food well.  some say eat more raw fruit/vege; depends on season and a person's constitutional type as to how much raw veg one eats, to get all nutrients intact.  stir-fried veg good too; tasty!
Posted by: aussielady582, Wednesday, November 28, 2012, 4:11am; Reply: 86
I am type O', "hunter", I do best with ghee, butter only occasionally.  Goat's cheese I like (in warmer weather and it causes no problems - but only small amounts at lunch time.  A little parmesan cheese in an omelette I like).  An Ayurvedic doctor (traditiional Indian medicine) said no dairy after 1 or 2pm as it leads to ama (which is toxicity in system) as is hard to digest later in day when our digestive fire (agni) is reduced!  So a little at breaky or lunch for me, goats cheese in salad. Greens and herbs will help to digest cheese, also spices do this too. I do not have weight problems so guess I am lucky, I am underweight and would like to to build muscle.  I just like a little cheese sometimes, not every day.  Most dairy causes sinus congestion for me, and slows down digestion/elimimation.  I read that for some people, dairy is not good for the colon, it coats the lining, and also in the lungs (in Chinese medicine, colon and lungs are related).  This may happen more for gatherer, or type A or AB.  Cows milk produced & designed by cows for their own babies (calves).....  Humans are only species drinking milk from another species, and even after we are weaned!  it has something which can be addictive and hard to give up.  To any people making their own ghee, what temp is best in oven and how long to leave in oven??; I may do a search; I also like home-made ghee; smell and taste nice; I missed ghee when I didn't have it.  lubricates insides and fat needed to digest some vitamins.
Posted by: Marc121, Thursday, November 29, 2012, 6:21am; Reply: 87
Quoted from ABJoe

Does Cheez whiz even count as "dairy"?   ??)

If it is calcium you are after, there many vegetables that contain quantities of it and are much better for you...  Just saying!   ;)


Is it not? But why? Its cheese right. Why did you ask its not a dairy?  :-/

Just curious. :)
Posted by: Drea, Thursday, November 29, 2012, 2:33pm; Reply: 88
In this country, Cheez Whiz is a highly processed "food", which is why many folks don't consider it actual dairy...

Cheez Whiz :X
Posted by: Lola, Thursday, November 29, 2012, 3:57pm; Reply: 89
marc, simply read ingredients on your CW jar

::)
Posted by: Marc121, Saturday, December 1, 2012, 5:41am; Reply: 90
Ooh, sorry for that.

I looked at the ingredient and it contained modified milk.
And other processed stuff. Thank you .

Well go to control my craving and substitute things for that.  :)
Posted by: BHealthy, Monday, December 3, 2012, 1:36am; Reply: 91
Before I started SWAMI I practically lived on raw sheep's milk coffee, raw goat manchego, tomatoes, homemade trail mix (almonds, walnuts, pistachios, pumpkin seeds, macadamia nuts, goji berries, raisins, mangoes, apricots, and coconut -- all raw and seasoned with salt and chili), grass fed beef, organic pork, and gallons of raw cream sauces.  I ate a LOT of dairy!

My migraines were down to 3 per month and I maintained my weight.  The only 'issue' I had was a persistent cough.

Now that I have eliminated the avoids: milk, coffee, pistachios, raisins, apricots, coconut and pork) my migraines have returned, I still have that cough, and my weight is stable even though I still eat the raw goat manchego in much greater quantities than my SWAMI recommends.  

Ergo, dairy does not cause me to gain weight.  

Rice, quinoa, and dried beans are another story.  I eat them very very rarely even though they are 'allowed'.
Posted by: BHealthy, Monday, December 3, 2012, 1:56am; Reply: 92
I've just read Dr. D's writing on cholesterol http://www.dadamo.com/btdisease/PathType-read.pl?show=29 in which he states:      
Quoted Text
+ Samburu people, for instance, eat about a pound of meat and drink almost two gallons of raw milk each day during most of the year. Milk from the African Zebu cattle is much fattier than cow's milk, which means that the Samburus consume more than twice the amount of animal fat than the average American, and yet their cholesterol is much lower, about 170 mg/dl .

+ Shepherds in Somalia eat almost nothing but milk from their camels. About a gallon and a half a day is normal, which amounts to almost one pound of butter fat, because camel's milk is much fattier than cow's milk. But although more than sixty percent of their energy consumption comes from animal fat, their mean cholesterol is only about 150 mg/dl, far lower than in most Western people.

+ According to the view of the Masai people in Kenya, vegetables and fibers are food for cows. They themselves drink half a gallon of Zebu milk each day, and their parties are sheer orgies of meat. On such occasions several pounds of meat per person is not unusual. In spite of that, the cholesterol of the Masai tribesmen is among the lowest ever measured in the world, about fifty percent of the value of the average American .

What is perhaps worth noting here is the fact that virtually all of these tribes are characterized by high percentages of O type blood as compared with A or B. (Moruant) And most of these societies have had a long tradition of hunter gathering versus agrarian existence. This can be demonstrated by looking at the distribution of blood type in Africa along the lines of latitude (north/south).

Granted, the article is on cholesterol and the fact that a high fat diet does not cause high cholesterol in type Os but...given that RAW dairy does not seem to be a problem for these ancient hunters, why is it an avoid for us 'O' hunters?
Posted by: ruthiegirl, Monday, December 3, 2012, 6:54pm; Reply: 93
Dr D has not evaluated raw dairy separate from pasteurized dairy products. Nor has he evaluated camel or zebu milk.

Most people consider the raw items to have the same value as the pasteurized counterparts that are listed. You may wish to consider raw dairy to be "untested and therefore neutral....with caution" if you want to consume it.

For untested foods, eat a small amount and see how your body responds. If you do well, you can increase the amounts. It's suggested that you completely "eat clean" and not include any "questionable" foods for a few weeks or months first, so you can better tell if there are any subtle reactions.
Print page generated: Monday, September 1, 2014, 11:54am