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BTD Forums  /  The Encyclopedia/ D'Adamo Library  /  Cultured veggies and probiotics, is anyone else as
Posted by: JJR, Friday, July 1, 2011, 11:45pm
sensitive as I am to these things?


I have been eating cultured vegetables for a couple of years now.  I think they are great.  They have helped my gut heal I believe.  They put probiotics in there and they have strains that a pill doesn't.  Plus, I believe it is a tradition that people did that fell by the wayside that may have been there for a reason.  Like Kefir and yoghurt.  Etc.

However, I have to play it really carefully with them.  Meaning, if I eat too much, I feel awful.  The detox symptoms are tremendous.  That being said, when I've taken a strong probiotic pill in too large amounts, including the AB forumula from NAP, I get the same reaction.  So, I know what it is.  At least I think I know what it is.  It's the good guys killing the bad guys and pushing them out.  And we know this can be an uncomfortable job.  Die off, etc.  But what I want to know is, do you guys get it as bad as I do?  Or some of you?  

I mean, last night I ate my cultured carrot, as I do almost every night.  Now, this one was a little bigger and I think a little more cultured than the ones the previous week or so.  I usually make two jars and sort of rotate between them to eat.  Well, I had not eaten out of one for about a week and when I opened it, it popped.  So, it probably meant they were getting more potent.  They were in the fridge and had been for maybe a month.  I have eaten out of that jar before.  But, regardless, the one I ate was extra strong and wholly smokes, I got all inflamed last night, couldn't sleep very well at all.  I'm all inflamed today and drinking lots of water, trying to push it through my system.  Donna Gates claims we have about 5 pounds of bacteria in our system and the good guys push the bad guys out, and it takes work to do that.  But my skin feels like it's on fire at times, my heart rate is higher than normal and my guts are more inflamed.  Even my joints/knees hurt some.  And it's irritating because the previous day, before the cultured carrot incident, I was starting to feel better.  It's been a rough spring, I started having more energy and the BAM.  And that's another thing, does that happen to anybody?  It seems like whenever I actually say, I'm feeling better or getting better, it seems like something happens that kicks my butt.  

It was the same thing this spring.  There was one day towards the end of winter, where I was at work, I was going up the stairs and I thought to myself, "Dang I feel good".  I felt strong, I was gaining weight at the time.  I wasn't needing a whole lot of supplements, and the very next day, the temperature jumped up 35 degrees and it kicked my butt.  And almost every time I've reached a peak like that, it seems like I take a fall.  

Anyways, I'm whining at this point, but I'm curious to see if anyone else had probiotics give them fits.  And I've been doing them for a couple of years.  I mean, when does it freaking end?  My yeast is better, but not completely gone.  But it's better.  Which I'm thankful for.  And I'm trying to stay positive.  And I need to self talk better.  So, I'm learning with the mind.  Yet sometimes that physical aspect can be real wicked and frustrating.  

What say you all?  Thank you for your time and care.
Posted by: Lola, Saturday, July 2, 2011, 12:01am; Reply: 1
less is better
Posted by: ABJoe, Saturday, July 2, 2011, 3:35am; Reply: 2
JJ,

I've never started culturing vegetables, but when I take Polyflora AB, it helps my digestion.  I've never noticed a problem from taking it.
Posted by: TJ, Saturday, July 2, 2011, 5:11pm; Reply: 3
Too much bacteria will provoke your immune system to attack.  The chemicals your immune system releases can make you feel sick.  For me, eating cultured veggies in moderation is fine, but actually taking probiotic caps is too much at once.
Posted by: JJR, Saturday, July 2, 2011, 6:47pm; Reply: 4
So you react more harshly to the probiotics?  Which ones?  

You've never gotten die off from cultured veggies themselves?

How's the job?
Posted by: Lola, Saturday, July 2, 2011, 7:00pm; Reply: 5
http://www.culturesforhealth.com/cultured-foods-holiday-bbq
Posted by: TJ, Sunday, July 3, 2011, 1:29am; Reply: 6
Quoted from JJR
So you react more harshly to the probiotics?  Which ones?  

You've never gotten die off from cultured veggies themselves?

How's the job?


Job's is going quite well.  As for the other questions, it's hard to say what's "die-off".  The worst probiotic for me was straight L. acidophilus.  One dose, and I felt like I had the flu for two days!  I even react to Polyflora-B, but it may be the yeast, or just having too much bacteria come in at once, or some of both.  Mixtures of different strains seem to be better.
Posted by: JJR, Sunday, July 3, 2011, 2:32am; Reply: 7
I think I just have a problem with inflammation in general.  I need to learn how to turn that gene off, or whatever.  Because when I get too many probiotics, man, it's fire city on the skin.  I don't think I get the flu symptoms as much as I do the inflammation.  Or, maybe that's the same type of thing.  I guess it is similar.  Because when I've had the flu and got high fevers, I ache everywhere.  
Posted by: brinyskysail, Sunday, July 3, 2011, 2:44am; Reply: 8
Quoted from JJR
I think I just have a problem with inflammation in general.  I need to learn how to turn that gene off, or whatever.  Because when I get too many probiotics, man, it's fire city on the skin.  I don't think I get the flu symptoms as much as I do the inflammation.  Or, maybe that's the same type of thing.  I guess it is similar.  Because when I've had the flu and got high fevers, I ache everywhere.  


Do you think it could be a histamine problem?
Posted by: JJR, Sunday, July 3, 2011, 2:48am; Reply: 9
I don't know fully what you mean.  Anything's possible.  Please educate me.  

My reference is to some people have genetics that will induce more inflammation than others, if those certain bad genes are turned on and not methylated or turned off.  It seems to be one I struggle with, even though I didn't do that IL test.  


Lola, cook link!  Was it in reference to my question, or just something that you wanted to share about cultured foods?  You eat some cultured foods, don't you?
Posted by: brinyskysail, Sunday, July 3, 2011, 3:01am; Reply: 10
inflammation, swelling, itching, burning, etc. can all be symptoms of histamine intolerance.  I'm not sure how much histamine is contained in cultured foods, but anything that is aged or fermented is high in histamine.  Histamine triggers the immune system to react (the reason why people with allergies take anti-histamines) so that could be causing your symptoms.  It also may not be, but I thought I'd throw it out there just in case...
Posted by: brinyskysail, Sunday, July 3, 2011, 3:08am; Reply: 11
Histamine intolerance is likely if you also have problems with the following:

alcohol, aged cheeses, pickled/fermented foods, mushrooms, fish (especially smoked), spinach, tomato, vinegar, soured milk products (buttermilk, yogurt, sour cream), eggplant, cinnamon, some citrus
Posted by: JJR, Sunday, July 3, 2011, 7:09pm; Reply: 12
Quoted from brinyskysail
Histamine intolerance is likely if you also have problems with the following:

alcohol, aged cheeses, pickled/fermented foods, mushrooms, fish (especially smoked), spinach, tomato, vinegar, soured milk products (buttermilk, yogurt, sour cream), eggplant, cinnamon, some citrus


This is very interesting.  It is possibly part of the problem.  Because I fit some of these descriptions.  Although I seem to do every well on Fish and never noticed a problem with cinnamon and spinach.  Where did you get this information and can I look into this more somehow?  But the cultured dairy is bad.  And I get so strong of a reaction to kefir, it's ridiculous.

Thank you.  
Posted by: Lola, Sunday, July 3, 2011, 9:39pm; Reply: 13
yup I do, and love to incorporate these in my meals.....like relish

thus my link

Get creative, but do not overdo....
did you listen to Dr Nash s latest radio interview on gut bacteria?
click on the JUne news letter.....lots to learn.....
Posted by: brinyskysail, Sunday, July 3, 2011, 9:42pm; Reply: 14
Quoted from JJR


This is very interesting.  It is possibly part of the problem.  Because I fit some of these descriptions.  Although I seem to do every well on Fish and never noticed a problem with cinnamon and spinach.  Where did you get this information and can I look into this more somehow?  But the cultured dairy is bad.  And I get so strong of a reaction to kefir, it's ridiculous.

Thank you.  


Fresh fish shouldn't cause a problem, only canned, smoked, etc.  For more info just google histamine intolerance
:)
Posted by: JJR, Sunday, July 3, 2011, 10:19pm; Reply: 15
Quoted from Lola
yup I do, and love to incorporate these in my meals.....like relish

thus my link

Get creative, but do not overdo....
did you listen to Dr Nash s latest radio interview on gut bacteria?
click on the JUne news letter.....lots to learn.....


Where can I hear this?

Briny, I eat canned salmon and tuna and never have a reaction.  They seem really good for me.  I don't do smoked though.
Posted by: Lola, Monday, July 4, 2011, 12:24am; Reply: 16
June news letter up at DPN....
click on products, button on top, then scroll down to news letter.....
are you not subscribed?

might be worth it while there :)
Posted by: JJR, Thursday, July 7, 2011, 12:19am; Reply: 17
http://www.probiotics-lovethatbug.com/herx-reaction.html
Posted by: Vegan Joe, Thursday, July 7, 2011, 1:25am; Reply: 18
What about abstaining for a while, and see what happens. Maybe your not letting your own system catch up and let your gut juices balance out.
Posted by: JJR, Thursday, July 7, 2011, 6:22pm; Reply: 19
Yeah, I haven't had any since that last bout.  I need to make a new batch or try something new.  I think any way I slice it though, when I kill the bad bacteria, I'm going to have inflammation.  But I got some test results back that showed I'm really low in a bunch of amino acids and my doctor said that would cause me to get inflamed more easily.  So, once I get started on taking those amino acids to supplement for now, I may be less touchy.  Hopefully.  

So, I may be better off waiting after I start that.  I still am taking small amounts of probiotics and I need digestive enzymes with my meals.  One night too many of those set me off also.  They will kill bad bacteria if you take more than you need for your food.  

Thank you for the advice!!!!!
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