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BTD Forums  /  Nonnie Clubhouse  /  Non Secretors and Aspergers Syndrome
Posted by: Tom Martens, Monday, June 20, 2011, 3:01pm
This is an extrapolation of information based on my own situation and does not mean it is fact.  

I have not been diagnosed with Aspergers Syndrome or any Autism Spectrum related issues.  

I’m just trying to put the pieces together for myself and hopefully help others who might read this.

The connection to being a non secretor seems to fit very well.  Many of the “symptoms” of being a nonnie match to the descriptions of Aspergers Syndrome.



I’ve always known that something was different about me and how I process information.  When someone is speaking at a seminar or product demonstration I always seem to be able to pick something out that was said that I took as matter of fact but others would say “that’s not what was meant.”  

I have asked questions about products or the performance of products that the promoter or salesman would reply “no one has ever asked that question in the 20 years I’ve been in the business.”  They do not have an answer to what I thought was an obvious question that needed to be answered.  

I cannot exactly relate to someone else’s pain, suffering or emotional state.  I can only relate to that situation on how I would feel and react in the same situation.  The two do not mean the same thing, especially to the other person who gets the impression that you don’t care and are unsympathetic or just oblivious – which means you are stupid, ignorant, etc.

Rules:  Why have rules and not enforce them?  Don’t tell me I can’t do the same thing someone else is allowed to do – I don’t care!  Get rid of the rule or make everyone follow it.

Learning:  If you teach in a linear fashion, test in a linear fashion.  Don’t expect me to be able to put together sections a, b, f, r, and z on one question and then ask me to put together sections c, d, j, m and w on the next if you are not going to teach the information that way.

My wife says that when I get on a subject like ERFYT, I just can’t stop.  She claims the people I talk to lose interest and get bored.  I look at it like “if they stop asking questions, I’ll stop answering.”


These are a few examples of the similarities between Nonnies and Aspergers syndrome.



I found this doing some research on Aspergers.  It’s by Kate Goldfield and much - but not all of it, I can relate to.

http://aspiefrommaine.webs.com/


Here’s an online test to take that will give you an idea if you might have Aspergers Syndrome.  Take the test the way it is formatted and get your score.  If you are like me, I noticed on the very first question that “the way they asked the question doesn’t fit the answers provided.  It should be a yes or no type question to get the desired answer.”    
Many of the other questions were the same way - to me.  I scored right at the median level ( 18 ) compared to others who took the test.  Over the years some of the situations I have adapted to and can handle them to a certain extent.  

Take the test a second time but this time only answer the extremes of definitely agree or definitely disagree even if it doesn’t apply exactly and then check your score.  I scored a 38 which put me in the Aspergers range.

http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/9.12/aqtest.html




I don’t know where this might lead, but it would explain a lot.
Posted by: 14428 (Guest), Monday, June 20, 2011, 3:37pm; Reply: 1
Very interesting Tom...I took the test and scored 21.  :)
Posted by: Amazone I., Monday, June 20, 2011, 4:31pm; Reply: 2
:ohmmm I'm always sceptical with the *syndromes* ;) ;D... if you'd like to read more about INTJ's so don't hesitate and give a try in the enneagram...5/6 or google about it and/or read also in the booklet of briggs-myers *gifts differing*...
infos in the books of Keirsey: "please understand me" is great help as well.... you are a rare type..only about 1% in the whole world!!! You see.... ;) ;D
Posted by: Goldie, Monday, June 20, 2011, 5:53pm; Reply: 3
You made a clear and concise statement above.. I have not yet tested my self, but I appreciate the links to see. later..

I would love to see you tell us how BTD helped .. when how and all the other questions I would like to ask of you..  
Posted by: O in Virginia, Monday, June 20, 2011, 6:27pm; Reply: 4
I scored a 33, answering the four categories (I'll go back and answer only those I strongly agree or strongly disagree with, just to see what comes out), but I'm actually very good at reading other people's feelings - visually that is, and feeling the *energy* of their presence.  I can walk into a room and do that easily.  My social reciprocity is good, but I have to force myself into social situations at times because I'm really happier doing things on my own.  I dislike interruptions and changes of routine.  I enjoy going deeply into a subject, and I become very irritated at not being allowed to do so.  I hate when my husband won't let me read.  I think he's ADHD, he's always on several tracks at once, and my preference is definitely linear and one track.  I want to completely exhaust a subject before I move on.  Unless I get bored first.  And he wants to start a conversation somewhere in the middle, talk around in circles about five other things before he gets back to where he started - if he gets back.  Drives me nuts!  :)
Posted by: Tom Martens, Monday, June 20, 2011, 10:50pm; Reply: 5
Quoted from Goldie
You made a clear and concise statement above.. I have not yet tested my self, but I appreciate the links to see. later..

I would love to see you tell us how BTD helped .. when how and all the other questions I would like to ask of you..  


I can't say that eating right for my type did or did not directly help.
I can say that always wanting to know "why" and help others is what fuels my ERFYT passion.

If you have questions, I'll do my best to answer.  PM me if you need to.
Posted by: ruthiegirl, Tuesday, June 21, 2011, 2:45am; Reply: 6
I got a 25- what does that mean exactly?
Posted by: C_Sharp, Tuesday, June 21, 2011, 4:07am; Reply: 7
You may be interested in our previous discussion of this  test:

http://www.dadamo.com/cgi-bin/Blah/Blah.pl?m-1248372279/s-51/#num52
Posted by: Ekalia, Wednesday, June 22, 2011, 7:44pm; Reply: 8
Interesting. Not a nonnie, but i scored 32  - borderline perhaps hehe
Posted by: stephanieelise, Thursday, June 23, 2011, 2:21am; Reply: 9
Wow Tom, I had no idea I wasn't the only one like this. Not that I believe I have this syndrome, but i'll do the test for curiosities sake. :) thanks
Posted by: stephanieelise, Thursday, June 23, 2011, 2:27am; Reply: 10
Oh. 37. Wow. :O
Posted by: Patty H, Thursday, June 23, 2011, 3:09am; Reply: 11
I am a nonnie and I scored a 14, so I guess one size fits none.
Posted by: Tom Martens, Thursday, June 23, 2011, 4:16am; Reply: 12
Quoted from Patty H
I am a nonnie and I scored a 14, so I guess one size fits none.


I'm just curious if you took the test both ways I suggested. :)
Posted by: Melissa_J, Thursday, June 23, 2011, 8:21am; Reply: 13
I tested 30, both with and without the extreme answers.

The diet does help me to be more focused and less distracted or annoyed by things.  If I avoid most grains, and sugars, then it helps even more.
Posted by: jeanb, Thursday, June 23, 2011, 11:49am; Reply: 14
Scored 4 in the past with extreme, scored 5 with non extreme.  I think there are too many introverts on this particular board to make correlations between Aspergers and nonnies. Extreme introverts will often test as aspergers.



Posted by: O in Virginia, Thursday, June 23, 2011, 12:41pm; Reply: 15
Quoted from jeanb
Scored 4 in the past with extreme, scored 5 with non extreme.  I think there are too many introverts on this particular board to make correlations between Aspergers and nonnies. Extreme introverts will often test as aspergers.


That's what I think, too.   ;)  I scored about 14 answering only extreme questions and leaving the middle ones blank.
Posted by: Patty H, Thursday, June 23, 2011, 12:42pm; Reply: 16
Quoted from Tom Martens


I'm just curious if you took the test both ways I suggested. :)


I didn't Tom.  I will go back to your original post and re-read what you are asking and re-test.  But in throwing out the data that you don't either strongly agree or disagree, does that really give an accurate interpretation of the test and doesn't that skew the results?  It seems to me that the other options are there for a reason, no?
Posted by: Patty H, Thursday, June 23, 2011, 1:01pm; Reply: 17
Tom, I went back and answered the questions, but only using the extremes.  I scored lower than my first test, with a 10.

I am an extrovert, which makes sense that I would score a 14 and a 10.  I can't be the only nonnie extrovert out there . . .
Posted by: Amazone I., Thursday, June 23, 2011, 1:09pm; Reply: 18
:o :B ;D ;D I was nearly right confonded I with E ;) ;D ....1/2 in the enneagram  ;D :D(hehe)(smarty)(clap) a beautiful psychogram, has nothing to do with any *syndrome* which always points out that docs doesn't really know what they are talkin about..... :X :X :X ;D ;D(funny)LOL(evil)(evil)

often nous, les NT's do have a problem to get understood, we talk directly to people, this is sometimes confronting yup but often people can't hold on and try to
escape ;) :D... we don't think in boxes... but people prefer the f-communication
and here we get lost :-/ :P :B ;D ;D
Posted by: Minnie777, Thursday, June 23, 2011, 1:36pm; Reply: 19
I scored 6 both times

The Kate Goldfield article doesn't resonate with me at all.
I'm am definitely not an introvert   ;D

There is a thread here somewhere along the lines of  "you know you are a nonnie, if..." which for the most part didn't apply to me either.

Being a nonnie is part of who I am, but it's probably not the defining factor. :)
Posted by: O in Virginia, Thursday, June 23, 2011, 2:48pm; Reply: 20
Quoted from Amazone I.
often nous, les NT's do have a problem to get understood, we talk directly to people, this is sometimes confronting yup but often people can't hold on and try to
escape ;) :D... we don't think in boxes... but people prefer the f-communication
and here we get lost :-/ :P :B ;D ;D


Lol!   ;D
Posted by: ruthiegirl, Thursday, June 23, 2011, 3:06pm; Reply: 21
Minnie- I identify with a lot of the "typical nonnie characteristics" but I still don't know my secretor status. I just might be a "quirky secretor."

I do have to wonder if message boards in general have more introverts on them; if the extroverts are out there doing stuff with people IRL and the introverts get most of their social needs met in quieter settings, including online.
Posted by: Tom Martens, Thursday, June 23, 2011, 3:40pm; Reply: 22
Quoted from Patty H


I didn't Tom.  I will go back to your original post and re-read what you are asking and re-test.  But in throwing out the data that you don't either strongly agree or disagree, does that really give an accurate interpretation of the test and doesn't that skew the results?  It seems to me that the other options are there for a reason, no?


For me, a lot of the questions didn't make sense with the answers provided.  Other questions didn't apply at all.  In my case, when given the choice of an answer that was middle ground, I took it only because the question wasn't put forth in a way to match a solid answer.

No worries with the results being skewed, that's the whole idea! :) ;)
Posted by: O in Virginia, Thursday, June 23, 2011, 3:47pm; Reply: 23
That's what I do...answer a question in the middle if I don't feel it applies one way or the other.  And I *imagine* the slightly disagree or slightly agree part, *as if* it did apply.  Which is why I don't like these kinds of tests, or the Meyers-Briggs either for that matter, because I can always sort of fantasize to myself what something might be like whether or not I've ever experienced it, and that will influence my answers when they should just be left blank.  I am moody, too.  Maybe I'm feeling more a particular way one day, and not so much like that on another.  I don't like being pegged into a slot without an escape hatch!   ;)  I guess I just don't know how to take these tets.
Posted by: Amazone I., Thursday, June 23, 2011, 4:20pm; Reply: 24
;D ;D :D too funny O in V ;) ;D   = she did it her way ;) (funny)(hehe)
Posted by: proto, Thursday, June 23, 2011, 6:13pm; Reply: 25
The most depressing trait of this condition for me right now are the motorical problems like a poor sense of balance and losing grip for no reason. This is a neurological condition after all. I've had these traits since I was a child and the doctor who diagnosed me some ten years ago needed to know my full history. I have also been very poor in Maths (dyscalculia) but pretty good in some other skills. In this context "NT" means "neurologically typical/neurotypical" if someone wonders.
Posted by: Tom Martens, Thursday, June 23, 2011, 6:34pm; Reply: 26
Quoted from proto
The most depressing trait of this condition for me right now are the motorical problems like a poor sense of balance and losing grip for no reason. This is a neurological condition after all. I've had these traits since I was a child and the doctor who diagnosed me some ten years ago needed to know my full history. I have also been very poor in Maths (dyscalculia) but pretty good in some other skills. In this context "NT" means "neurologically typical/neurotypical" if someone wonders.


LocoMotor issues are not a problem for me when I'm on my own two feet.  It's a whole issue if you put me on skates, skateboard, waterborad - I'm hopeless :)

I do have a problem with keeping a straight line when I have to imagine the piece I cannot see like when nailing / screwing blindly from top to bottom or end to end.
Posted by: Amazone I., Thursday, June 23, 2011, 6:36pm; Reply: 27
in my very aspects NT means = intuition and thinking; related to the Myers-Briggs psychological tests... :D   btw... hugs y kuddos to you dearle half of mine in Finlandia :K) ;)

btw... remember all : we mustn't be at the demands nor expectancies of others!!!
Don't get into your own trap to... whatever... allopathic medicine is a beautiful garden of *fixing* handling things and *so called syndroms*... hey man become aware with what you're going to identify!!!! :o :-/ :P :X......... individuation traits are heavy to come along with... they need and demand *a fine back* ;) ;D :D
Posted by: O in Virginia, Thursday, June 23, 2011, 10:08pm; Reply: 28
In my student teaching days (not too long ago, as I went back for a teaching degree later in life), I remember the kids who had aspergers all seemed to have motor issues.  I suppose it goes with the territory - in ways that we are learning more about all the time.  For what it's worth, those kids were my favorites, even though I wasn't supposed to have favorites, and was careful not to show favoritism.  But I couldn't help it, I just felt like I could relate to those kids on a certain level.  :)

Did you watch the film about Temple Grandin (Clare Danes plays her)?  Or have you seen any of her taped lectures or read her books?  She doesn't appear to have motor issues, but maybe she does.
Posted by: Tom Martens, Thursday, June 23, 2011, 10:44pm; Reply: 29
Yes, I finished watching the Temple Grandin movie and I liked it.
While I don't see things in pictures like Temple, I do share her frustration in people not understanding my thought patterns and way of thinking sometimes.  I also have trouble expressing myself emotionally sometimes when the situation is current.  Later I will figure the words to say, but it's usually too late.
Posted by: Patty H, Friday, June 24, 2011, 3:16am; Reply: 30
Quoted from Minnie777
I scored 6 both times

The Kate Goldfield article doesn't resonate with me at all.
I'm am definitely not an introvert   ;D

There is a thread here somewhere along the lines of  "you know you are a nonnie, if..." which for the most part didn't apply to me either.

Being a nonnie is part of who I am, but it's probably not the defining factor. :)


Tom, I can totally relate to Minnie777's post as quoted above.  The link provided does not resonate with me at all.  IMHO, while I appreciate your wanting to assign this to nonnies, I think it makes more sense to assign this to introverts, regardless of secretor status.

Maybe you should consider a poll for introvert, secretors and non-secretors and see where this goes  ??)  I would be interested to see the results!  Maybe being a nonnies enhances the introversion if that is the tendancy and maybe it enhances the extroversion of that is the tendancy.

All of this would be interesting to me.
Posted by: jayneeo, Friday, June 24, 2011, 6:03am; Reply: 31
A good book is "Look Me In The Eye" by John Elder Robison, describing his own life with Asbergers.
(Augusten Burroughs' brother)
Posted by: PCUK-Positive, Saturday, August 13, 2011, 8:22pm; Reply: 32
scored 22 normal way. but have always been an analyser and record keeper.
Posted by: Tom Martens, Saturday, August 13, 2011, 10:55pm; Reply: 33
Quoted from Patty H


Tom, I can totally relate to Minnie777's post as quoted above.  The link provided does not resonate with me at all.  IMHO, while I appreciate your wanting to assign this to nonnies, I think it makes more sense to assign this to introverts......

All of this would be interesting to me.


I'm not saying for sure that there is a direct connection to Aspergers Syndrome, but there are a lot of similarities with the characteristics.
Posted by: Vista, Sunday, August 14, 2011, 6:53am; Reply: 34
Here's a test to find out autism spectrum traits in adults:

http://www.rdos.net/eng/Aspie-quiz.php

:)
Posted by: Ribbit, Sunday, August 14, 2011, 10:23pm; Reply: 35
Hm. I consistently score pretty high as an Aspie.

On the ISTJ Facebook group I'm on, someone asked if we all thought ISTJs were all on the spectrum.  It was a neat discussion.

I believe, like Proto says, it's a neurological thing.  I know that my symptoms are better when I eat right.  But just this morning I let my colors show.  We had some people over for lunch and my kids were swarming around me loudly requesting grape juice.  Instead, I opened the cabinet, pulled out my ear plug (for my left ear, the sensitive one), crammed it in and said to our guests, "Sorry, sensory overload."  They looked at me funny, but I sure felt better.  Only then was I physically able to stop shaking and pour the juice.
Posted by: Ribbit, Sunday, August 14, 2011, 10:31pm; Reply: 36
Quoted from O in Virginia
...I remember the kids who had aspergers all seemed to have motor issues.


I was *always* the last person in elementary school chosen to be on a sports team.  I can't catch to save my life.  I'm always either too early or too late or the ball falls in a totally different place than I think it will.  I have no timing or spacial skills.  Funnily enough, I didn't have any trouble in band and was always at the top.  I did have a little trouble keeping a steady beat if I was playing a solo, but thankfully I usually played with a piano if I had a solo.
Posted by: jennyg, Sunday, August 14, 2011, 10:44pm; Reply: 37
Quoted from 14428
Very interesting Tom...I took the test and scored 21.  :)


me too, but not positive about secretor status, haven't tesetd yet, but suspect I"m a nonnie due to my digestive issues.
Posted by: C_Sharp, Sunday, August 14, 2011, 10:55pm; Reply: 38
Quoted from Vista
Here's a test to find out autism spectrum traits in adults:

http://www.rdos.net/eng/Aspie-quiz.php


I scored 176 out of 200.
Posted by: Ribbit, Monday, August 15, 2011, 1:15am; Reply: 39
159/200  I don't really understand the chart though.
Posted by: C_Sharp, Monday, August 15, 2011, 1:52am; Reply: 40
I think a key to the chart is the left side is for "Normal" Neourotypical people and the right side is for people who are neurologically in the Aspergers camp.

So my chart has almost none of my polygon extending to the left side of the chart. But my polygon almost completely filled the right side of the chart.

You are a little more balanced than me, so you would have had some of your polygon area on the left, but still most of it would be on the right.




The chart also has an up and down dimension. The Intellectual/mental component is up and the perceiving/physical component is down.

I am primarily intellectual, but I have not yet managed to completely turn off my physical body yet, so while I hit the extreme edge for intellectual talent, my polygon still extended into the physical space.
Posted by: Ribbit, Monday, August 15, 2011, 2:24am; Reply: 41
Yeah, there was a tiny bit in the left side.  "Hunting" on both sides was very low.  What does hunting mean (in this sense)?
Posted by: C_Sharp, Monday, August 15, 2011, 2:41am; Reply: 42
Note that hunting occurs on the right and left side.

Quoted from Neurotypical hunting

The traits in this group are related to cooperative hunting. These traits are often described in terms of dysfunctions. Typical traits are recollections of environmental information (e.g.
positions of things; scores in games; order of words, letters and digits; map reading) and passing on information to others (e.g. passing on messages; knowing left from right; dates and times
of events; remembering appointments and events; reading clocks and calendars; carrying over information between contexts). Other traits are related to trading and exchange with others (e.g.
calculating change from a purchase; knowing what to bring to appointments; remembering sequences of past events; remembering formulas; filling out forms).


Quoted from Aspie hunting

This group contains passive hunting traits. One part of the traits is related to preferred habitats (e.g. slowly flowing water; caves; woods; liking mist or fog). Another part seems to be
close-contact hunting traits (e.g. jumping over things; climbing; chasing animals; biting; enjoying spinning in circles; strong grip; strong hands; physical endurance; enjoying rodeo riders).
Some other traits are related to sneaking (e.g. sneaking through the woods; sneaking up on animals; walking on toes) and general hunting tactics (e.g. mimicking animal sounds; digging;
throwing small things; building traps; fascination for fire; sniffing)


How far out you are on the left hunting scale is determined by how you answered questions 113-118

How far out you are on the right hunting scale is determined by how you answered questions 105-112
Posted by: Ribbit, Monday, August 15, 2011, 3:40am; Reply: 43
Thanks.  I guess I don't have much of that.   ;)  I have zero neurotypical talent.
Posted by: Ribbit, Monday, August 15, 2011, 3:49am; Reply: 44
Quoted from Tom Martens
  If you are like me, I noticed on the very first question that “the way they asked the question doesn’t fit the answers provided.  It should be a yes or no type question to get the desired answer.”    



Tom, that's because the person who typed up the test was not the same Meyers-Briggs temperament type as you. ;)  I'd be interested in seeing where you fall on that test.
Posted by: Vista, Monday, August 15, 2011, 9:44am; Reply: 45
Quoted from Ribbit
Hm. I consistently score pretty high as an Aspie.

On the ISTJ Facebook group I'm on, someone asked if we all thought ISTJs were all on the spectrum.  It was a neat discussion.


I am ISTJ and diagnosed with Aspergers Syndrome (but I'm not on Facebook).

:)
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