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Posted by: Melissa_J, Tuesday, June 14, 2011, 4:22pm
Thanks to Symbi for posting a bit about Histadelia in another thread.  I read about it and it describes my son perfectly...not only his allergies and tummy troubles, but his complaints about sweating too much, getting too hot, having to swallow too much, his lean build and fast metabolism, long toes, sneezing in sunlight, and his intolerance of stress, oppositional defiant behavior, hyperactivity, insomnia, phobias, etc.  Even his gastroenterologist has a "sense" about this when he freaked out about the idea of a biopsy and she "guessed" he was "one of those kids" who will benefit from the antihistamine....which was a miracle except that it made him too tired to do much.  He naturally avoids most meat and tomatoes, which are high in histadine, the amino acid that is converted to histamine.

The treatments for histadelia are primarily supplements: vitamin C, Calcium, Magnesium, manganese, B6, and B3 (niacin), and methionine (an amino acid).  It is also recommended to avoid extra folic acid, because hestadelia can make it hard to use the methyl groups and their level builds up.  It is an under-methylated state, so I assume that foods which improve methylation are good...and am open to suggestions about which ones these are.  (I seem to remember green tea).

Trouble is, I'm not sure which of these supplements are fine for a 48 pound 8 year old.  I've already started him on the vitamin C, and picked up more calcium/magnesium.  The vitamin C seems to already be helping.  

He hasn't taken any antihistamine for over a month, as he hasn't needed it so much since NMT treatments and hypnosis.  He did try zoloft for a month or two last winter, and it helped, but not enough to keep him on it with my concerns about it... at least knowing that the two treatments help does help me understand what's going on...high histamine, low serotonin.  I'll have his NMT practitioner address all this specifically on his next appt, but want to also give him the supplements that will help.
Posted by: brinyskysail, Tuesday, June 14, 2011, 4:32pm; Reply: 1
Have you seen the product Histame?  I had problems with dietary histamine, and it really helped me.  (for some reason the problem ended up going away, though...).  It contains DAO, which is an enzyme that removes histamine from the body.  It is not cheap, and few places sell it, but it helped so much that I completely considered it to be worth the expense and trouble.  For awhile I didn't eat a single meal without taking it.
Posted by: brinyskysail, Tuesday, June 14, 2011, 4:33pm; Reply: 2
I should add that although Histame is lactose, wheat, and gluten free, it does contain corn and some random ingredients so I don't know if anything in it would be a problem or not :-/
Posted by: Melissa_J, Tuesday, June 14, 2011, 4:36pm; Reply: 3
He has no problem with corn... I'll check it out, thanks!  

I read something about DAO with all this, but wasn't sure where to find it.
Posted by: Melissa_J, Wednesday, June 15, 2011, 3:32am; Reply: 4
As I described the different symptoms to my husband he said that it also sounds just like him.  Might explain some of his allergy symptoms after eating even though he has no consistent food allergies...it's always to something different, and usually while  travellilng or under stress.  Usually the food containes something with histadine in it.

Perhaps my son got some genes from his dad afterall.
Posted by: Lola, Wednesday, June 15, 2011, 5:25am; Reply: 5
you bet! :)
Posted by: Melissa_J, Friday, June 17, 2011, 4:36am; Reply: 6
I don't know if I should expect good results already, maybe he's just happy it's summer, but I'm seeing results in his attitude.  

I started him on extra Vitamin C and Calcium/Magnesiium, a bit of B6 in the AM, and today some zinc, bromelain and quercetin.  He is much more balanced already, fewer phobias, less defiant, and he's been going outside in spite of the wasps (which terrify him since he was stung 5 times by hornets at age 5), went to scouts with enthusiasm instead of whining, and has been going all over town with his dad (he used to be afraid to leave the house or spend much time with his dad, who is more strict than I am).

I think he'll be ready for swimming lessons in a couple weeks (crossing fingers).

I found a chewable supplement called D-hist for kids, as well, which will make it a little easier to get some extra C, bromelain and quercetin into him...oh, I think it also has stinging nettle.  I'll keep putting them into his smoothie, but he only drinks one of those a day.
Posted by: brinyskysail, Friday, June 17, 2011, 4:41am; Reply: 7
That's great :)  I hope he continues to improve 8)
Posted by: Lola, Friday, June 17, 2011, 5:17am; Reply: 8
:) happy for you!
Posted by: maukik, Friday, June 17, 2011, 2:18pm; Reply: 9
Keep us posted
Posted by: mikeo, Monday, June 20, 2011, 3:48pm; Reply: 10
Quercitan
Posted by: Symbi, Tuesday, June 21, 2011, 12:57pm; Reply: 11
That's great to hear Melissa J!  So glad that I might have helped in some way point in the right direction (though the doctor already suspected good to hear).

So glad that he seems to be going better.  DAO is a copper-containing enzyme, so he could benefit from some extra copper.  Copper is found in carob, beans and chocolate!  I find when I get histadelic (usually from inflammation all over) I pop on my copper bracelet and it helps and I crave some copper foods usually too.  Funny cos copper deficiency is associated with tendonitis and arthritis which flares up at that time.  When I taste metal in my mouth I take it off cos you can over do it!  Vitamin C is supposed to help the copper change into a form the body can use.  

It's easy for me to tell when I get histadelic cos my oral lichen planus flares up majorly (one factor is increased mast cells in the affected area).  When it flares I must avoid foods that release histamine; pineapple, tomato, msg, citrus etc.

SAM-e is supposed to be good for histadelia but is expensive, methionine is similar.  You can get some in green tea!  Try and get methylated vitamins if you can to not use up methyl groups, like niacinamide instead of straight B3.  May have to research.

I meant to write about dosage before.  I saw Dr Klinghart say that most of his patients are 20kg so he recommends 1/4 of the adult dose in vitamins, might be a good starting point.  How did you get him to take the vitamins?  D-Hist sounds great, but the others?

Ouch about the wasp stings that sounds terrible.  My DD had a phobia to dogs since one bit her it takes a while!
Posted by: Melissa_J, Thursday, June 23, 2011, 4:50am; Reply: 12
Thanks Symbi!

He drinks PediaSmart Soy every morning.  It's not perfect, but for him it is a good way to get the protein and fat into him.  I just wish it didn't have the vitamins he doesn't need, like folic acid...but for such a picky eater it's great to have something like that.  I just mix the other vitamins into that.  He may be tiring of that now anyway, another option is to mix the vitamins as powder into peanut butter and putting it on chocolate...that covered the tastes of his awful tasting prescriptions back when he took those.  Smoothies are another good place to put the supplements.  The vitamin C, quercetin and bromelain are pretty easy to hide.  Oh, and he doesn't like the D-hist...but I only ordered one bottle for fear that he wouldn't like them, and they're good for my husband and I.

Anyway, to further update, he has been pretty unstoppable lately.  He wants to do something, play with friends, and go somewhere every day, while he used to just want to stay home in his pajamas...I was worried he was becoming agoraphobic.  He's been doing chores, taking care of pets, earning money to buy new fish for his new aquarium.  He's been going outside, I even heard him say once when he saw a bee "oh, well, who cares" and just continue what he was doing.  There's got to be something to this!  Hopefully he'll lose his phobia of swallowing/choking, soon, and start eating more variety.

@mikeo - thanks, I have been giving him quercetin with good results.  
Posted by: Melissa_J, Thursday, June 23, 2011, 7:16pm; Reply: 13
Thanks Symbi!

The doctor had a sense of it, like there is a "type" of person with this problem, and he fit the profile of her observations... but she lacked the nutritional and alternative knowledge to do more than prescribe antihistamine.  So, she did provide a good diagnosis, but the vitamins are a better cure than the Rx was.  It was nice that the Rx increased his appetite so much, that was one good side-effect that I wish I could replicate otherwise.  Anyway...

He drinks PediaSmart Soy every morning.  It's not perfect, but for him it is a good way to get the protein and fat into him.  I just wish it didn't have the vitamins he doesn't need, like folic acid...but for such a picky eater it's great to have something like that.  I just mix the other vitamins into that.  He may be tiring of that now, another option is to mix the vitamins as powder into peanut butter and putting it on chocolate...that covered the tastes of his awful tasting prescriptions back when he took those so I'm sure it would work with vitamins.  Smoothies are another good place to put the supplements.  The vitamin C, quercetin and bromelain are pretty easy to hide.  Oh, and he doesn't like the D-hist...but I only ordered one bottle for fear that he wouldn't like them, and they're good for my husband and I.

Anyway, to further update, he has been pretty unstoppable lately.  He wants to do something, play with friends, and go somewhere every day, while he used to just want to stay home in his pajamas...I was worried he was becoming agoraphobic.  He's been doing chores, taking care of pets, earning money to buy new fish for his new aquarium.  He's been going outside, I even heard him say once when he saw a bee "oh, well, who cares" and just continue what he was doing.  There's got to be something to this!  Hopefully he'll lose his phobia of swallowing/choking, soon, and start eating more variety.

@mikeo - thanks, I have been giving him quercetin with good results.  
Posted by: Symbi, Monday, June 27, 2011, 12:25am; Reply: 14
Sorry for late reply been offline a few days - little one's 6th birthday at the play centre - was great for the kids.  Also had my last amalgam taken out and full cleaning done by dental hygeinist!  I smile and so bright.  

Gee they're clever ideas to get vitamins into him! thanks.  You must be clever if he has the swallowing problem and behaviour problems to get any food into him at all!  I have some problems with my little one too - must be a nonnie like me methinks.  Big kudos to you for doing such a great job.
  
If he has soy - is he an A?  Methylated folate may be okay cos it won't use up methyl groups (IMHO everyone still needs those vitamins).  Just quickly found this short article http://itsnotmental.blogspot.com/2008/06/nutrition-genes-and-brain-dysfunctions.html - not exactly on topic but it links to methylated B6, B12 and Folate you can get.  
Do you have an inkling of his genotype - hunter if he's an O or warrior if he's A?  I find it interesting Dr D says explorers methylate well (why we don't age quickly).  Warriors are the other end of the scale for acetylation so I wonder if they are also for methylation since they age quickly.  Also funny how vegetarian diet is recommended for Warriors and that fits histadelia.

Does that pediasmart soy have fish oil.  Fish oil might help.

Sounds like you're on the right track, some fine tuning and experimenting and he'll be larry.  Worth googling for histadelia, histamine intolerance, under methylation should find lots of information (some of it conflicting hence experimentation necessary).  I can't take too much folate normally but when I keep copper up then it doesn't affect me btw.  Just had carob drink and that has some copper :)
Posted by: Melissa_J, Monday, June 27, 2011, 4:50am; Reply: 15
Yes, he's an A+ secretor, and most likely a teacher, possibly warrior, but not an explorer.  His dad is a teacher and seems to have histamine trouble as well.

I don't think it has fish oil, but it may.  He won't take fish oil, but does eat a lot of salmon.  Black currant seed oil is something he'll take.
Posted by: Symbi, Sunday, August 7, 2011, 3:12am; Reply: 16
Hope that your son is still going well.  Should be some big improvements after a few months.

There is a quick and easy test that everyone can do at home.

"One way you can test your histamine levels is to buy some nicotinic acid (the niacin that causes the flush) in 50 mg. dose. If you have high histamine levels then you will experience a flush from only 50 mg. dose. If it takes 100 mg. to cause you to flush then you have normal (or balanced) histamine levels. If it takes from 150 mg. to 250 mg. dose of niacin to flush then you have low histamine levels."  http://www.latitudes.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=2056

Silly me did the 100mg first which everyone should flush on and ended up with hives all down my arms and had to take antihistamine.  A few days later tried 50mg and got flush and bumps all down the arms.  So yep I'm histadelic at least at that time.  I will try to get some methionine added to my regime.  Already take many of the right vitamins and will cut down of folic acid too.

Lately I feel more acidic stomach and have to eat first thing in the morning, higher pain levels and good saliva levels all signs of histadelia.  Get bad episodes with terrible thoughts sometimes.  Phenergen is the last resort.  Calcium / Magnesium tablet helps!
Posted by: Melissa_J, Sunday, August 14, 2011, 7:33pm; Reply: 17
He is still doing well.  He learned how to swim and I even took him river rafting this summer!

I'm nervous about school, but he seems excited to be going... I have to remember that he has changed a lot since last year so he should do fine with it.
Posted by: Possum, Monday, April 2, 2012, 4:18am; Reply: 18
Missed this thread, so great to hear how well your son is doing, Melissa & thanks for the tip below Symbi
Quoted from Symbi
"One way you can test your histamine levels is to buy some nicotinic acid (the niacin that causes the flush) in 50 mg. dose. If you have high histamine levels then you will experience a flush from only 50 mg. dose. If it takes 100 mg. to cause you to flush then you have normal (or balanced) histamine levels. If it takes from 150 mg. to 250 mg. dose of niacin to flush then you have low histamine levels."  http://www.latitudes.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=2056

Lately I feel more acidic stomach and have to eat first thing in the morning, higher pain levels and good saliva levels all signs of histadelia.  Get bad episodes with terrible thoughts sometimes.  Phenergen is the last resort.  Calcium / Magnesium tablet helps!
Was thinking it probably pays to have some Phenergen on hand for emergencies :-/ Knocks me out for ages, but better than staying awake scratching, although I managed to do that quite well, in my sleep last night ::)

I resurrected this thread as I had an allergic reaction over the weekend that has puzzled me??) Was quite badly bitten by midgies/tiny sandflies on Friday & ended up with 4-5 really itchy bites on ankles & legs...They were still very itchy 3 days later, but thankfully not as bad as my reactions 10 yrs ago when first in NZ, where twice my leg/arm swelled up so much I couldn't walk or work for a few days :o So am way less allergic now, but recently got over-exposed to toxins as well as bitten ??)

I sometimes struggle organisation/motivation-wise to do even a small shop for the weekend, but Friday I was unusually organised & energetic, so probably overdid things:-/ Managed to do petrol station, library, 4 supermarkets & spent an hour in a hardware store where plastic & fume smells were very strong... I hadn't intended being out all day, so only had macadamias on me for lunch...

I then spent an hour outside, queuing & filling up a boot load of bottles at the local spring & remember smelling strong petrol fumes heaps as people came & went... Then was in a pool supply shop for quite a while which absolutely reeked of chlorine, ordering & waiting to collect something?! Ate mince with chili Friday night & then had pumpkin & organic chicken on Saturday & lots of hot cocoa both days & also indulged in some chocolate:B

Before bed on Saturday I remember I had such an incredibly hard/bloated tummy & my ears were ringing, plus my chest felt weird as I tried to sleep? ?!! I woke up on Sunday with a scratchy sore throat, slightly upset tummy & flu like symptoms...(no nasal problems & dosed up so that did not develop) but felt dazed & nervy & flu like, & everything smelt terrible to me on Sunday... I also had a silent migraine episode but thankfully lying down got rid of that...Even this morning (Monday) I still have a sore throat, felt nauseated walking past a sushi place & have little appetite :-(

Someone suggested an allergy to histamine & if so, I guess all this (plus the various foods which were all high) would not have helped a build up & over reaction to histamines?! Only thing is, no way do I have a high metabolism?! I notice pumpkin is high in histamines as well & is not even on the Explorer or Gatherer lists - don't know what made me think it was ok??!!
Anyone have any thoughts please?
Posted by: Possum, Tuesday, April 3, 2012, 1:55am; Reply: 19
Still wondering.. & still slightly off colour & one bite on leg still hurts/swollen ::)
Posted by: Possum, Tuesday, April 3, 2012, 8:43am; Reply: 20
Sigh :(
Posted by: karen, Thursday, April 5, 2012, 2:55am; Reply: 21
Hi Possum, I hope you are improving with each passing day.  It could be a number of things that caused your symptoms but if I had experienced them I would immediately think adrenal exhaustion. Beginning with the reaction to the bites, if your adrenals were already tired, it could then have an affect on how other organs functions. The fumes you inhaled and the chocolate you ate would definitely do me in.  I say that because I'm just recovering from an adrenal crash two weeks ago. Mine started from eating chocolate and bananas on a daily basis and those two foods get me every time. (I should have known better)

Do you take any supplements to support the adrenals and liver?
Posted by: Possum, Thursday, April 5, 2012, 3:18am; Reply: 22
Thanks so much for your thoughts karen!! I was feeling just about all better by yesterday thanks, until I inadvertently ate something I shouldn't have!!Rice noodles.. (Think they may have been bleached/sulphited altho' it didn't say so on the packet)
I have never thought adrenals were a problem with me as I have plenty of energy...& never had any normal adrenal problems/symptom... but maybe I haven't been looking at the right things? Liver though -  yes is a definite worry...& would have been overloaded for sure, especially after the chlorine attack??!! Was reading up on chlorine after that & it all adds up ??) Environmental toxins (for some of us at least) definitely increase our sensitivity to things in foods...!!!

Main health hazards associated with breathing in chlorine: -
"Chlorine is a severe nose, throat and upper respiratory tract irritant. People exposed to chlorine, even for short periods of time, can develop irritation of the nose, a weak cough, and increased dryness of & mild sore throat, tightness in the chest...even at low ppm..." The Facts About Chlorine
http://www.health.ny.gov/environmental/.../chemical.../chlorine_general.ht...
Posted by: Victoria, Thursday, April 5, 2012, 3:52am; Reply: 23
Possum,
maybe calcium d glucarate, as in Dr. D's DetoxiCal-D:
http://www.4yourtype.com/prodinfo.asp?number=NP053
". . utilized in the body to enhance the process by which the body rids itself of potentially dangerous environmental pollutants, including foreign organic compounds, fat-soluble toxins . ."

Redoxa:
http://www.4yourtype.com/prodinfo.asp?number=NP055
" . . N-acetyl cysteine (NAC). NAC is the better-absorbed form of L-cysteine, which helps to maintain healthy levels of the liver’s natural detoxifier, and a precursor of one of the body’s primary protective agents, glutathione. Together, NAC and glutathione are powerful nutrients involved in the body’s normal processes of detoxification."

I've found Redoxa to be very effective at cleaning and healing the lungs and throat.

There's also Hepatiguard.
Posted by: Possum, Thursday, April 5, 2012, 4:03am; Reply: 24
Thanks heaps Victoria ;)
Posted by: Possum, Thursday, July 5, 2012, 2:26am; Reply: 25
Having initially thought (way back) that I had a problem with salicylates I am noticing more & more that all the problems I have with foods etc do seem to come back to histamine being at the centre of the issues, as after taking Histacalm for weeks - high in quercetin - I was having much less problems...

I am now convinced the problems was never salicylates, as I am eating (even red) apples (with the skin on) with no problems and ground almonds... I have started really avoiding chocolate and anything else I know to be high in histamines (which is concurrent with the Explorer diet anyway) and things are settling down, even though I have temporarily run out of quercitin...

So in researching all the foods etc that trigger this reaction for me, I am keen to learn more... For example I am avoiding cocoa, so am looking for a better hot beverage... I need a coffee/cocoa substitute as tea just does not satisfy on really cold days... Does anyone know if a pure dandelion root "coffee" is ok? Ta
Posted by: karen, Thursday, July 5, 2012, 5:31pm; Reply: 26
Hi Possum,
I don't know about dandelion but I've seen carob listed in low histamine recipes. Maybe a cup of hot carob instead of hot cocoa.

At this site: http://foodallergies.about.com/od/commomfoodallergies/p/histamineintol.htm  it says that some supplements that doctors recommend are high doses of vitamin C and vitamin B6 (which can stimulate the activity of DAO in the body)along with a histamine-free diet. Another site also mentioned that DAO is a vitamin B6 dependent enzyme so B6 seems to be fairly important.

Posted by: Possum, Friday, July 6, 2012, 2:28am; Reply: 27
Thanks (once again) Karen for your thoughts/suggestions... :) I might well have to give the carob another go... It is an Explorer diamond & my body did seem to crave it (& ghee) about 18 months back ;) Typical of me, I overdid it at that stage, so couldn't face either again... ::) :B Then (possibly while reacting to something else) I got worried, since carob is related to the soy family, & being that I am very allergic to soy, I gave it a miss after that for both reasons??!!
Hmmm... now I am craving carob :D Oh & cheers re the suggestion of Vitamin C & B6 - I had started those again & they do seem to be helping... in spite of me running out of quercitin?!
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