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BTD Forums  /  Live Right 4 Your Type  /  Alleles and MN subgroup
Posted by: Sheldon, Wednesday, February 16, 2011, 12:55pm
I was wondering, how would you go about finding out the other allele of your ABO blood type (I'm an A, so am I AA or AO?) from a medical testing point of view.

And also, how do you go about getting tested for your MN subgroup (there doesnt appear to be much info on it here in Australia), and does anyone think Dr. D'adamo will bring out a testing kit for that?

Thanks!  :)
Posted by: Andrea AWsec, Wednesday, February 16, 2011, 1:11pm; Reply: 1
Knowing what your parents are will determine your other allele.

I am Ao.. Mother was an A, father an O.


Posted by: Sheldon, Wednesday, February 16, 2011, 1:17pm; Reply: 2
Yeah i thought that, but the problem ive got is that my mother is an A and my father is an AB, so my mother could be AA, which means i got the A from both parents, or she could be an AO, which means i could have got the A from both parents, or the A from my father and the O from my mother!  :-/
Posted by: Andrea AWsec, Wednesday, February 16, 2011, 1:21pm; Reply: 3
why does this matter?
Posted by: Sheldon, Wednesday, February 16, 2011, 1:40pm; Reply: 4
i wasnt sure if it was mentioned anywhere with the diet if you needed to know the other allele or not?
Posted by: C_Sharp, Wednesday, February 16, 2011, 6:39pm; Reply: 5
Quoted from Sheldon
i wasnt sure if it was mentioned anywhere with the diet if you needed to know the other allele or not?


Whether your genotype is AO or AA does not affect the diet recommendations in Peter D'Adamo's books.

One may also be able to tell whether you are AO by considering your children's blood type. If you have one ore more children that are Blood type O or bloodtype B, you would be AO. If you do not have any B or O children, it does not indicate that you are AA.


Posted by: PCUK-Positive, Wednesday, February 16, 2011, 7:01pm; Reply: 6
Quoted from Andrea AWsec
why does this matter?


It's interesting, that's why i imagine, although it seems that Peter's dad pts more emphasis on this (assuming i have interpreted his book correctly.

Posted by: Lola, Wednesday, February 16, 2011, 10:58pm; Reply: 7
PathLabIM.com.au
Symbion Lab

ask around for a serotyping panel
subtype of A
MN system
Lewis antigen
and RH factor

and maybe they can guide you as to how to test for your allele
but the info above would be more useful to you
Posted by: 11889 (Guest), Thursday, February 17, 2011, 1:39pm; Reply: 8
Quoted from C_Sharp


Whether your genotype is AO or AA does not affect the diet recommendations in Peter D'Adamo's books.

One may also be able to tell whether you are AO by considering your children's blood type. If you have one ore more children that are Blood type O or bloodtype B, you would be AO. If you do not have any B or O children, it does not indicate that you are AA.




so far:

ABO plays a role,
Rhesus plays a role,
Lewis plays a role (BTD/GTD people would hardly know without Dr. D?),
MNSs plays a role (BTD/GTD people would hardly know without Dr. D?),

But allele seem to play no role in the diet recommendations even if the founder of the blood type diet found out that their could be a relation to it?

;)
Posted by: Andrea AWsec, Thursday, February 17, 2011, 1:53pm; Reply: 9
This is a case if
genotype versus phenotype..

What is expressed may be more important then what we are :), but both are significant.

PC I was asking why it mattered to the original poster :), why they need to know if they are Ao or AA.. or any other combination.



Posted by: Lola, Friday, February 18, 2011, 4:17am; Reply: 10
alleles too were taken into consideration when Dr D designed his software program
Posted by: Jenny, Friday, February 18, 2011, 10:29am; Reply: 11
Quoted from Lola
PathLabIM.com.au
Symbion Lab

ask around for a serotyping panel
subtype of A
MN system
Lewis antigen
and RH factor

and maybe they can guide you as to how to test for your allele
but the info above would be more useful to you

Yes, I got my MN done at the same time as secretor and A1/A2 at the Path Lab in Burwood, Victoria

Posted by: Sheldon, Friday, February 18, 2011, 1:03pm; Reply: 12
Yeah i was just curious, just thought it would something good to know, i'm getting caught up in trying to get my tests done and just thought of that one too, and considering Dr D has been focussing on genotype recently, then at least maybe down the track if the other allele had some worth, i would already know what mine is (so being an A, if i have a recessive O that might influence things). do u need to know it for the SWAMI home software?

And i went to the Path Lab in Burwood today and they didn't seem to have a clue! ive even been enquiring to a naturopath in the UK who specialise in analysing finger prick samples, and they seem to be the best that i can find in terms of covering everything (except allele), but i dont think i am able to send the samples back to the UK through the Australia Post (as far as i can gather but im still not sure!) so thinking of trying my luck with my doctor first and seeing if he knows of the tests, and if they are/can be done by the path lab the doctor's clinic uses, or getting sent and done by another lab  :-/

also to Jenny above, did you go and get the actual blood test done at the actual path lab in burwood, or did you go to your doctor, got the tests ordered, got your blood taken, and then had the samples sent to the path lab in burwood? because there appears to be a home kit you can purchase off their website, but you need your doctor to fill out part of the online form (just to get it sent to you, but then i think he has to fill out another form once i receive it, so before i send it off), but then you have to have 4mL blood taken, so you cant really do that at home anyway, so you would have to go in and get it done anyway!  :-/
Posted by: 11889 (Guest), Friday, February 18, 2011, 3:18pm; Reply: 13
Quoted from Lola
alleles too were taken into consideration when Dr D designed his software program


Cool, also in SwamiXP?. If yes, could you specify how to tell the system. Is it part of the specific prediction algorythm, maybe?
Posted by: Patty H, Friday, February 18, 2011, 3:44pm; Reply: 14
I'm NMg, so I can't use the MN factor in SWAMI.  I am M negative according to my test, so I can't use the MN option.  I just left mine blank.  I sure do wish rare blood angtigens were factored in, however, that would be a lot of work for a very small percentage of the population.  ::)
Posted by: Jenny, Friday, February 18, 2011, 9:08pm; Reply: 15
Sheldon, that is bad news re Path Lab in Burwood. I went in off the street, ie no referral from a doctor, (possibly made an appointment with them in advance), in about 2003. The secretor test was done by saliva, but the others ie MN and A1/A2 by blood.
We need to hear from others in Australia who have been there more recently, and if not, through what resource they got their information.
I have only ever discovered alleles through induction/deduction from my parents and childrens types.
Posted by: Lola, Saturday, February 19, 2011, 3:55am; Reply: 16
Dr D s programming skills, as well as his clinical experience has factored in all what needs to be factored in, no worries.
Posted by: Patty H, Saturday, February 19, 2011, 4:01am; Reply: 17
Quoted from Sheldon
Yeah i was just curious, just thought it would something good to know, i'm getting caught up in trying to get my tests done and just thought of that one too, and considering Dr D has been focussing on genotype recently, then at least maybe down the track if the other allele had some worth, i would already know what mine is (so being an A, if i have a recessive O that might influence things). do u need to know it for the SWAMI home software?

And i went to the Path Lab in Burwood today and they didn't seem to have a clue! ive even been enquiring to a naturopath in the UK who specialise in analysing finger prick samples, and they seem to be the best that i can find in terms of covering everything (except allele), but i dont think i am able to send the samples back to the UK through the Australia Post (as far as i can gather but im still not sure!) so thinking of trying my luck with my doctor first and seeing if he knows of the tests, and if they are/can be done by the path lab the doctor's clinic uses, or getting sent and done by another lab  :-/

also to Jenny above, did you go and get the actual blood test done at the actual path lab in burwood, or did you go to your doctor, got the tests ordered, got your blood taken, and then had the samples sent to the path lab in burwood? because there appears to be a home kit you can purchase off their website, but you need your doctor to fill out part of the online form (just to get it sent to you, but then i think he has to fill out another form once i receive it, so before i send it off), but then you have to have 4mL blood taken, so you cant really do that at home anyway, so you would have to go in and get it done anyway!  :-/


I had to have my Mg antigen tested by the American Red Cross.  I had the Lewis phenotyping done at the same time.  I had to have a doctor's order for both tests.  A blood bank at a major hospital or the Red Cross is probably your best bet.  My blood had to be sent from the hospital, where I had it drawn, to the local Red Cross office.
Posted by: Lola, Saturday, February 19, 2011, 7:35am; Reply: 18
the saliva test kit, for secretor status is a vial made of plastic, only
for that you need no Dr, you simply spit and send off to the lab in US.....
us international customers, can not send of saliva samples across the border, depending on law regulations in your country.

the serotyping panel, we are suggesting, is in fact a blood test, and can be done in your country....DPN sends no vial for that, thus the reason you ask your local Dr to withdraw the blood, to send to the lab in your country

hope that is more clear now
Posted by: Sheldon, Thursday, February 24, 2011, 2:38pm; Reply: 19
Thanks everyone! I went to my doctor on tuesday, and other than ABO and Rh he had no idea on the other ones! so he just wrote them down on the path sheet, and i went next door to the nurse, who had no idea either! so after about an hour of the 2 nurses running around making phone calls, they finally took my blood and saliva sample, so now i just have to wait, fingers crossed it all works out!  :-/
Posted by: ruthiegirl, Thursday, February 24, 2011, 5:57pm; Reply: 20
Sometimes you can figure out your alleles based on family history. For example, I know my son has to be BO (or is it OB?) because I'm an O. If you're an A and you have any B or O children, then you know you have to be AO. Of course, this won't work for everybody (if you don't know your parents' blood types, don't have kids, or if the combinations don't clarify anything) but it works for some.
Posted by: Jenny, Thursday, February 24, 2011, 10:19pm; Reply: 21
Quoted from Sheldon
Thanks everyone! I went to my doctor on tuesday, and other than ABO and Rh he had no idea on the other ones! so he just wrote them down on the path sheet, and i went next door to the nurse, who had no idea either! so after about an hour of the 2 nurses running around making phone calls, they finally took my blood and saliva sample, so now i just have to wait, fingers crossed it all works out!  :-/

Good on you for persevering Sheldon.You are fortunate in having a doctor who will comply with your requests (I moved clinics to find a doctor like that!)
You may find that they send the samples to Symbion if the Burwood Lab is no longer doing that work. Let us know!

Posted by: Lola, Thursday, February 24, 2011, 10:43pm; Reply: 22
more on alleles
http://n-equals-one.com/blogs/2010/10/23/islands-humanity/
Posted by: maukik, Friday, February 25, 2011, 2:31am; Reply: 23
Quoted from Andrea AWsec
Knowing what your parents are will determine your other allele.



How does an A parent and a B parent make an Ao?  This is the case for my son.  

If one only knew one parent, say the A parent, but knew he himself was an Ao, he would assume his other parent was an O, by this logic, wouldn't he?  But, the other parent is in fact a B.  

I am sure this has been discussed before.  I can try to find an older thread, if I am highjacking this one too much.

Posted by: Lola, Friday, February 25, 2011, 3:02am; Reply: 24
because your hubby is a Bo.....
and you are an Ao
so you passed down the A and hub passed down his o recessive allele making your son an Ao
simple, no? ;D

A is dominant
Posted by: maukik, Friday, February 25, 2011, 2:46pm; Reply: 25
Simple, yes!, the way you put it, Lola.  Thanks!
Posted by: Jenny, Friday, February 25, 2011, 9:47pm; Reply: 26
It's helpful to draw up a personal grid with the two parents along the horizontal and vertical axes.
The four boxes will show the four possible outcomes. eg

              A      o (me)
    (him)
     B      AB      Bo

      o      Ao      oo

In my family I got two ABs and one Ao in my three children. It is a bit of a lottery. One chance in four every time.
You may well ask how did I know that I was Ao rather than AA? The reason for that logic is that my father was tested at the blood bank as o. Therefore I had to receive o from him.I was tested as an A, therefore my mother was an A.
How did I know that he(father of my children) was a Bo, not a BB?(also tested, and found to be B)
Because one of my children is an A,(bottom left grid), therefore he had to receive a recessive o.
Posted by: Sheldon, Saturday, March 5, 2011, 7:16am; Reply: 27
Hey everyone, just thought i would update you all on my blood results that i got back. all the ones i had requested were done, so that was good. nothing really out of the ordinary, im A+, Le (a-b+)secretor, MM, Fy (a+b+) (although for some reason it said that these were my 'probable' genotypes, so not sure why that was said). the only odd thing was that it said that im A1, even though my mother is A2 and my father is A2B? i've seen their cards with it on them, although they've had the cards since they gave blood nearly 30 years ago. i can't seem to find any info on this (if its possible for two parents with A2 to have an A1 child.etc), so any input would be great!  :)
Posted by: Lola, Saturday, March 5, 2011, 7:46am; Reply: 28
great!
http://www.google.com/url?q=http://www.dadamo.com/program_advanced_subtypes.htm&sa=U&ei=D-pxTZ6NDoP2tgPa1-zGCw&ved=0CAMQFjAA&usg=AFQjCNHjYD6GnbHSPD_QugsnKs4oFtwT7w

http://www.dadamo.com/cgi-bin/Blah/Blah.pl?m-1121227455/

http://www.dadamo.com/cgi-bin/Blah/Blah.pl?b-xpress/m-1279775798/s-25/
Posted by: Lola, Saturday, March 5, 2011, 7:47am; Reply: 29
Quoted Text
or some reason it said that these were my 'probable' genotypes


read the part in the book where Dr D explains the reason why he named his 6 Genotypes
http://www.yourhealthkick.com/?p=1767
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lcMjvruuUxM&feature=related
Posted by: Sheldon, Sunday, March 6, 2011, 1:52am; Reply: 30
Thanks Lola! :) however after reading up on the A subgroups, to be honest I still don't understand it completely. Lola, what is your interpretation of it, especially the first link of Dr D? Do u think I could be A1 with an A2 and an A2B parent? And how does that work? Thanks! :)
Posted by: Lola, Sunday, March 6, 2011, 3:52am; Reply: 31
I believe subtypes are recessive as well, so depending on the genes you were dealt, you are what you are

why worry about your parents being 2
work on the 1 as best you can
much like secretor status......I d be no where if I worried about my parent s
secretor status, no?

I work on my LDN status, and forget the rest :)
Posted by: Sheldon, Sunday, March 6, 2011, 4:49am; Reply: 32
That's what I thought (about it being recessive) that's why I couldn't see how it was possible. If my mother is A2 then wouldn't that mean she's either A2A2 or A2O? (because if she was A2A1, then wouldn't she just be an A1, dominant over the recessive A2?) so in theory, I got an A2 from my father (he's A2B) and either an A2, or an O from my mother, making me either A2A2 or A2O? I guess I'm just curious if my test was done accurately, seeing as it's a bit more unknown and probably not tested often here in australia. But I guess I'll just have to trust in it for now :)
Posted by: Lola, Sunday, March 6, 2011, 6:23am; Reply: 33
chances are you got your mum s recessive o gene and your dad s A

Quoted Text
The question may arise “how do you know if you are AO or AA?” Mendelian genetics can be applied in certain cases to give an answer: if one parent is O the child typed blood group A1 must be A1O, (who may be more prone to bacterial overgrowth than AA). Similarly if two parents of blood group A have a child who is typed as blood group O, both parents must be AO.

http://www.dadamo.com/B2blogs/blogs/index.php/2006/04/18/uk-ifhi-symposium-report-part-ii?blog=14
Posted by: Sheldon, Sunday, March 6, 2011, 9:57am; Reply: 34
But my dad is A2B, so I must have got the A2 from him, so that would make me either A2O (O from mum) or A2A2 (A2 from mum), with both cases resulting in me being A2  ??) And the last link u put up pretty much says that. Very strange indeed!  :-/
Posted by: Lola, Sunday, March 6, 2011, 5:23pm; Reply: 35
how can you know if your parents were correctly tested for their subgroups?
get all of you retested to soothe your spirit, no? ;)
Posted by: Jenny, Thursday, March 10, 2011, 2:57am; Reply: 36
Sheldon where did you end up getting your A1 v. A2 tested exactly? At the time I also had a bit of a problem with it, but in the end accepted the blood bank's analysis over the path lab.In those days the blood bank was marking A1 A2 on the donor cards, but later on they stopped doing that.
Posted by: paul clucas, Thursday, March 10, 2011, 2:32pm; Reply: 37
Sheldon's A1/A2 question comes from not having enough information.
Posted by: ruthiegirl, Thursday, March 10, 2011, 2:55pm; Reply: 38
Does A1/A2 subtype affect blood transfusions?  If not, why would the blood bank test for it at all? If so, then why don't ALL blood banks test for it and put it on the donor cards?
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