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BTD Forums  /  SWAMI Xpress  /  Help!  Gatherer fat portions!
Posted by: EquiPro, Tuesday, February 8, 2011, 12:58pm
So, in SWAMI, for me as a Gatherer, it recommends on 2 T of oil + 1-1/2 t ghee (IF I eat no cheese) PER WEEK!!!!!

As a type O following the BTD, I have relied on oils and other fats to help me stay off of sugar.  I have never monitored my fat intake and use olive oil to cook everything from eggs to meats, as well as putting it on my daily salad.  I routinely use cast iron cookware which needs a good coating of oil to work properly.

I probably use that weekly recommendation DAILY, if not more.  I don't see how I'm going to comply with this portion recommendation, yet I really want to follow the guidelines as closely as possible.  Also, I have read, repeatedly, that it is best to eat veggies with some fat in order to absorb the nutrients in the veggies.  If I am taking in 5 servings of veggies per day (a challenge in and of itself) how can this tiny allotment of oil possibly be stretched to be used with my veggies?  It's the FAT put on veggies that makes them easier to eat (and me more likely to get those 5 servings in).

I could really use some help with dealing with this... am I now going to have to be as judicious with my oil use as I am with my starch intake....I mean, 2T + 1-1/2t per week is NOT very much.

Help!!! (Edna?)
Posted by: geminisue, Tuesday, February 8, 2011, 1:19pm; Reply: 1
3 teaspoons= 1 tablespoon

use 1 teaspoon in your frying pan, you will be surprised how far it goes!

can always add a bit of bouilon or water, if needed, but usually I don't except when doing raw veggies that I have grated, I use a bit of water with herbs and spices, then when cooked, remove from pan, dry pan, put oil or ghee and brown a bit.  
Posted by: Wholefoodie, Tuesday, February 8, 2011, 1:19pm; Reply: 2
This is another question that comes up often as it seems many of us have similiar restrictions. There was a very recent thread in fact!

My oils and fats are also very low and I am borderline underweight so that leads me to believe it is not a weight issue as much as how it effects the overall operation of things. Like you, I feel I need in a day what I am given in a week. There is no way this diet would work for me with the miniscule amounts of fats and oils alloted. Others have also agreed they need to go over the amount given.

The plan has to be liveable so I would suggest you be aware that you should use less and do the best you can. My goal is stay within compliant foods and be aware of portions. None of them pose much of a challenge except fats and oil. I use lots of olive oil to cook and season and enjoy ghee and the occasional cheese. I am aware I should not be pouring it on, though!
Posted by: Peppermint Twist, Tuesday, February 8, 2011, 5:58pm; Reply: 3
Quoted from EquiPro
So, in SWAMI, for me as a Gatherer, it recommends on 2 T of oil + 1-1/2 t ghee (IF I eat no cheese) PER WEEK!!!!!

As a type O following the BTD, I have relied on oils and other fats to help me stay off of sugar.  I have never monitored my fat intake and use olive oil to cook everything from eggs to meats, as well as putting it on my daily salad.  I routinely use cast iron cookware which needs a good coating of oil to work properly.

I probably use that weekly recommendation DAILY, if not more.  I don't see how I'm going to comply with this portion recommendation, yet I really want to follow the guidelines as closely as possible.  Also, I have read, repeatedly, that it is best to eat veggies with some fat in order to absorb the nutrients in the veggies.  If I am taking in 5 servings of veggies per day (a challenge in and of itself) how can this tiny allotment of oil possibly be stretched to be used with my veggies?  It's the FAT put on veggies that makes them easier to eat (and me more likely to get those 5 servings in).

I could really use some help with dealing with this... am I now going to have to be as judicious with my oil use as I am with my starch intake....I mean, 2T + 1-1/2t per week is NOT very much.

Help!!! (Edna?)

Hello, daaaahlink!

First of all, don’t fret/sweat the portion recommendations too much, they are just that:  recommendations, friendly suggestions, based on what Dr. D thinks would be ideal proportions of the various and sundry things in our diet that comprise the “whole pie”.  Each slice is suggested to be a certain amount, but it is just a suggestion, based on all Gatherers.  In a sense, in my opinion anyway, the portion recommendations within each type are the most reductionist aspect of this inherently non-reductionist diet.  In other words, they are customized to your group, your type, which is pretty dang customized, yet they are not nearly as customized, or important (in my humble opinion), as the recommendations for which specific foods are good for your Gatherer self and which are not.  That is just my opinion, but I really feel like the “which foods” is WAAAAAY more important and customized than the “how much”.

Now, this next thing is just my approach, too, so I emphasize that, but I personally eat MUCH more fat than is recommended for me on both the O non-secretor diet and on the Gatherer GenoType Diet (book or SWAMI).  Mind you:  SWAMI thinks I should have—brace yourself, unless you are a Type A reading this, in which case, you will no doubt think “And the problem would be, what exactly?”  *LOL*--1 tablespoon of superfood or neutral oil per WEEK.  My reaction, much as I trust and respect and KNOW that Dr. D is always spot on when it comes to what he tells me to do?  Yeah, my reaction to the whole one-tablespoon-of-oil-per-week recommendation is:  “Whatchu’ tawkin’ ‘bout, Willis?!!!!!!!!!!!”

I mean:  Willis!  Talk sense!

Momma GOTS ta have her OILS, baby!  Fat!  Fat is where it’s at!  And Dr. D has taught me so well, that he has taught me to trust MYSELF, ultimately, and my knowledge thereof, and therefore, again, I must say to him on this:  Willis, where’d you get that rabble-rousing recommendation?  Because this rabble is roused by it!

There is NO WAY on this or any other earth that I can limit my added fat intake to ONE tablespoon of the stuff per week.  Period and the end.  I have faith in the fact that, if I wouldn’t perish, I’d at least WANT to perish!  I mean, have I ever tested my theory by actually attempting to live on one tablespoon of added fat per week?  NO.  It’s not happening.  I spent too many years being brainwashed by the Pritikin/Big Wheat and Corn Crowd into thinking that fat was bad and wheat was king and, long story short, even now, on my healthy GTD and knowing what I know and blah blah BLAH, if I were to attempt the whole one tablespoon of oil/fat per week thing, it would feel WAAAAAAAAAAAAAY too much like going back to those dark days and just the psychological impact alone would be enough to send me sailing out the door in search of chips and dip, trust me!

Bottom line:  I’ve lost 81 lbs by following my GTD, BUT being basically non-compliant on the fat portion recommendations (and, while I’m being honest, even with the part that I already said I think IS important, the “which” fat:  I eat organic mayo on a regular basis, it is my ONE avoid that is a regular part of my diet...well, one of the very few, I also do eat some dairy like feta and yogurt pretty regularly).

That said, I would like to lose another 9 to 14 lbs (depending if you go by my official 81 lbs lost or where the scale keeps vacillating back and forth to...but I digress!) and, thus far (since reaching my original goal on April 13th), I CANNOT do it.  And, I mean, I’m exercising, I’m eating right, I’m even forcing myself to sleep at night (I mean, work with me, here!).  So I should, in fairness, say that, maybe if I would cut the added oils back to at least something approaching the general area that Dr. D recommends, I could lose more...and I’m toying with cutting back, but no WAY will I get to a tablespoon per WEEK.  Let’s not get crazy.

My point is, I’ve lost 81 lbs and I eat as much superfood oil (olive) and neutral oil (dark toasted sesame) as I want.  I also eat some avoid oil in the form of Spectrum Organic Mayo, and I don’t care who knows it *lol*!  Mind you, if you made your own homemade mayo, it could be not only Gatherer compliant, but Gatherer beneficial/superfood.  I’m just too lazy for that...and I don’t care who knows it *muah/tee heeEEE!*  Cue David Bowie:  Rebel, Rebel!

I’m more prone to cut back my grains proportion (basmati rice, mainly) in any given meal than I am to cut back my fats, although I do try to be mindful of both...I try, and I do pretty well with the grain, but on the fat, I often think:  hmmmmm...nope, needs a dash more olive oil!  Or sesame.  It is impossible to have too much of either, really.  So, since you asked me, I have to “go rogue” on this one issue and say that, while I avoid bad fats such as transfats and avoid fats (other than my organic mayo!), I do eat way more of the superfood (mainly) and neutral (gotta have my dark-toasted sesame oil in some things, like “Car 54’s Spread” that you loved so much, remember?) oils than recommended.  So far, so good:  81 lbs down and HDL of 91, total chol of 198.  If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it.
Posted by: Victoria, Tuesday, February 8, 2011, 6:51pm; Reply: 4
One way to make the most of the fats that you eat is to add them after cooking.  Recently, we had a discussion on mixing compliant oil with liquid lecithin @ approx 3/4 C oil to 1/4 C liquid lecithin. . or even less lecithin.  A very small amount of this brushed or wiped on a skillet will make it non-stick.  Lower heat works best for this.  Then a little oil or ghee can be tossed into whatever food you want to dress up.

Especially in the beginning, I wouldn't worry too much about exact measurements, but get used to the food choices.  As your body changes, you can make some changes gradually.
Posted by: jayneeo, Tuesday, February 8, 2011, 7:35pm; Reply: 5
Whew!!!!! ::)
so glad P.T., our resident real world gatherer extraordinaire, stepped in!!!!
1 T. a week. Its got to be a mistake! I just could not do it.
Posted by: EquiPro, Tuesday, February 8, 2011, 8:48pm; Reply: 6
Thanks to the Universe for you Pep!  I'm JUST LIKE you...man, I don't even THINK about fat portions (and I'm talking the benny fats  -  I haven't touched the trans stuff in YEARS - think EVOO and ghee w. butter here and there), but I started to get frightened by the SWAMI!

Good....I'll just be doin' my fat thing then!

Hugggss!!!
Posted by: Peppermint Twist, Tuesday, February 8, 2011, 8:50pm; Reply: 7
Quoted from jayneeo
Whew!!!!! ::)
so glad P.T., our resident real world gatherer extraordinaire, stepped in!!!!
1 T. a week. Its got to be a mistake! I just could not do it.

:D :K) Well, now, mind you:  I could be a bad influence here, I mean, Dr. D does recommend far less added fat than I choose to add.  So just take my post as honestly reflecting my practice of, and experience on, the GenoType Diet.

...wish we could link to youtube from here.  I'd put Bowie's "Rebel, Rebel" right about...HERE.   8)
Posted by: Peppermint Twist, Tuesday, February 8, 2011, 8:52pm; Reply: 8
Quoted from EquiPro
Thanks to the Universe for you Pep!  I'm JUST LIKE you...man, I don't even THINK about fat portions (and I'm talking the benny fats  -  I haven't touched the trans stuff in YEARS - think EVOO and ghee w. butter here and there), but I started to get frightened by the SWAMI!

Good....I'll just be doin' my fat thing then!

Hugggss!!!

Oh, good Lord, I'm leading all my fellow G2s astray!  Sorry, Dr. D!

...Gotta love me anyway?  (woot)

Fish gotta swim
Birds gotta fly
PT gotta add FAT  ...without it, society as we know it breaks down!!!  ;)
Posted by: ruthiegirl, Tuesday, February 8, 2011, 9:14pm; Reply: 9
I'm (once again) trying to stick to SWAMI portion sizes and frequencies- as a Gatherer, it's my natural inclination to overeat. Overeating on the beneficial and neutral foods doesn't "hurt me" in terms of energy level, pain, ability to fall asleep, etc, but I can't lose weight when I'm consistently eating 4 or 5 square meals a day instead of 3.

I'm focusing on eating lots and lots of veggies, and limiting my grains to the recomended 1-2 per day, and to keep my animal proteins to the recomended amounts. I need to eat lots of veggies to feel satisfied with modest amounts of meats(/eggs/cheeses/fish) and starches. Sticking to about 2 servings of fruit per day (or less) has never been a challenge for me.

I'm not even attempting to follow the "fats and oils" recomendation. I need to eat fewer carbs, and less food altogether. I guess I'm aiming for about a tablespoon, maybe two,  of added fats/oils per day, NOT the 2 tablespoons per week I'm supposed to have. Less than one teaspoon a day? I don't think so!

When I first started SWAMI,  I logged my daily food intake into Fitday a few times and came up with about 1750 calories a day- and that's with eating twice the recomended eggs and more oil than recomended. I few months back, I tried to 100% follow SWAMI portions but found myself cranky, weak and irritable. I logged my food into Fitday and found that I was only eating about 1000 calories- no wonder I felt so awful! I increased my portions of protein and fat and felt much better.

I have to wonder if there was a typo in the SWAMI software, and it says "per week" where it should read "per day." Everything else he says about fats and oils (to eat enough of them to feel full, etc) seems to be at odds with the actual portions given.
Posted by: EquiPro, Tuesday, February 8, 2011, 9:35pm; Reply: 10
Quoted from ruthiegirl
I have to wonder if there was a typo in the SWAMI software, and it says "per week" where it should read "per day." Everything else he says about fats and oils (to eat enough of them to feel full, etc) seems to be at odds with the actual portions given.


I actually had the same thought, Ruthie!

Posted by: deblynn3, Tuesday, February 8, 2011, 9:40pm; Reply: 11
Ghee is under dairy in the Geno book. could we count it that way? Ok, Ok just asking you take my fat portions down way down.  :P
Posted by: Lola, Tuesday, February 8, 2011, 9:51pm; Reply: 12
get a brush and a spray bottle :)
Posted by: Susana, Tuesday, February 8, 2011, 11:17pm; Reply: 13
As a hunter I do not get very generous portions of oils on my Swami either. I also over do them.  

Ruthiegirl, have you observed that in the edit part of Swami, in the last section, you can input the portion / frequency desired. If you ask for the help tab you get the description of the objectives of each variant. Perhaps you asked it to compute for you and that's the reason you got such low calories. You may want to enter normal or higher portions or frequencies to get a more balanced swami report.

I figured that if my Swami allowed me 8 tablespoons/wk of oil on the highest portion/frequency meant that so much oil (still not enough for me) was not bad for my health and even a little bit more could pass unnoticeable health wise. The issue of calories is another ball game.

Peppermint Twist, congratulations for your weight loss. I always knew you would make it one day. Bravo! I also wanted to tell you that that noodle MD of yours was talking generalities when she so adamantly told you to lose more weight. You are far from the average. You eat very healthy and I have met many people with extra pounds who lived very healthy into very old age. So with your nutritional program you could be well in your way to celebrate your 3 digit b'day. Go ahead and reduce what you know you can/want to reduce but chances are with time even those extra 9 pounds will fly off.

PT, could you tell us the frequency and perhaps the portion of grains, beans, sweet potato, and fruit per day or week? Has the gatherer diet been able to work so well with high fat and a relatively high level of carbs? If so, you are such good proof that Dr. D's work really cleans the body for proper functioning. I am assuming your portions/frequencies of food ingestion are "average/normal."

Thanks,

:K)
Posted by: DoS, Wednesday, February 9, 2011, 12:20am; Reply: 14
As a Type A I use way more than 2T a week. It is not possible with cast iron to use so little. Although I mostly use olive oil which I am not under the impression would be easy to over do.
Posted by: MsRubyLu, Wednesday, February 9, 2011, 1:59am; Reply: 15
Another Gatherer here who only gets 1 T per week... I'm hoping it is a program error because I too ignore it.... I'm not loosing fast but I'm loosing so I'm happy ;D  I'm also supposed to have 5 cups per day of vegies.  I'm still working on getting that high ;)
Posted by: ruthiegirl, Wednesday, February 9, 2011, 1:46pm; Reply: 16
Quoted from Susana
Ruthiegirl, have you observed that in the edit part of Swami, in the last section, you can input the portion / frequency desired. If you ask for the help tab you get the description of the objectives of each variant. Perhaps you asked it to compute for you and that's the reason you got such low calories. You may want to enter normal or higher portions or frequencies to get a more balanced swami report.
I don't have the SWAMI Xpress that I can play with myself- I had the pro version done and I'm not going to ask Andrea to constantly fiddle with it. I'll ask her to re-run it when I enter peri-menopause, or I have some other significant health change, but not for little things like this.
Posted by: balletomane, Wednesday, February 9, 2011, 2:31pm; Reply: 17
I get 6 tbsp a week and I think even so, I easily go over that recommendation coz I use at least 1 tbsp for my salad (3-4c) every day, then at night I would use another tbsp for my stir fries.

Ruthiegirl, your calorie count is really low! One time I input my meals in CalorieCount.com coz a friend of mine is using it and I got curious. I put my goal to be "maintain current weight." The calories I would need to take is 2200 per day. When I input my meals, eaten according to SWAMI recommendations, it was right on (but I think I did go over the oil portion anyway).

I would look up liquid lecithin and spray bottles for olive oil. But in the meantime, I do feel that the amount of oil (plus protein, of course) I eat makes me satisfied and stay away from snacking unnecessarily.
Posted by: ruthiegirl, Wednesday, February 9, 2011, 2:50pm; Reply: 18
1700-1800 calories is probably about right for me to lose weight. That's about what I was eating when I first started following my SWAMI, and I lost 10 lbs in a month. That was a year ago, and I haven't lost any more weight, though I have gained and re-lost about 4 lbs repeatedly.

The difference is, when I was first following my SWAMI, I didn't really pay much attention to fat portions, I doubled my egg portions, and I didn't eat any cheese. I'd been dairy-free for a very long time, and I didn't quite trust that the cheeses listed were actually safe for me to eat. At the time, I figured I was eating extra eggs to compensate for the loss of calories, fat, and protein found in the cheeses I wasn't eating. Then I never cut back on eggs when I started eating cheese.

Actually, I lost all sense of portion size and control- if I "trust my gut" on how much to eat, I'll overeat. I need to re-train my body to eat less, and that means using my head, not just my intuition, in figuring out how much to eat. I was very cerebral about my foods for the first month, then "got into the swing of things" and started trusting my gut again (which was on target for a little while) and then didn't use my head to double-check and keep things under control.
Posted by: Peppermint Twist, Wednesday, February 9, 2011, 2:55pm; Reply: 19
Quoted from ruthiegirl
I have to wonder if there was a typo in the SWAMI software, and it says "per week" where it should read "per day." Everything else he says about fats and oils (to eat enough of them to feel full, etc) seems to be at odds with the actual portions given.

Quoted from EquiPro
I actually had the same thought, Ruthie!

I was wondering that, too...

Posted by: Drea, Wednesday, February 9, 2011, 3:00pm; Reply: 20
Granted, I'm not a Gatherer, but even so...I only get 5 Tablespoons per week of Fats and Oils. I go over that amount; in fact, I don't even measure my fat intake. I do limit myself to beneficial fats (except for the trace amount I get of black dot safflower oil in the apple-juice sweetened cranberries that I buy), mostly walnut oil, evoo, and ghee.
Posted by: Peppermint Twist, Thursday, February 10, 2011, 5:17pm; Reply: 21
Update:  Guys, I PMed Dr. D regarding the fat situation in SWAMI (namely:  could there be an error in the program some kinda how), and he was fabulous enough to check into it.  He found that there was a perhaps excessive number of modifiers, such as that a female G2 (Gatherer) with a high BMI would end up with very restricted fats.  He said he has tweaked it!  So, I suggest we all rerun our SWAMIs when we get a chance.  There could be a windfall of extra fat!  Yay!
Posted by: Peppermint Twist, Thursday, February 10, 2011, 5:51pm; Reply: 22
Update to my update:  DUDES!   :D

It is very dicey for me to be posting at the moment, but d*mn the torpedoes, just have to report that:

I re-ran my SWAMI and my fat portion recommendations have gone from one tablespoon per week, to SIX tablespoons per week!  YAY!  Mind you, not sure if that is all due to Dr. D's above-referenced tweaking or to the fact that--YAY!--since the last time I ran SWAMI, my waist has shrunk by two inches and my hips have shrunk by three inches!  :D :D :D

Whatever the change is due to, my fat recommendation has jumped to a theoretically doable level!  I suggest you all re-run yours and see which way the crow flies!
Posted by: jayneeo, Thursday, February 10, 2011, 6:14pm; Reply: 23
Wha....? You PM-ed Dr. D?  Cool!!!!!!!! Only you could have gotten away with it! 8)
Because of your success story......thak you P.T. and Dr. D.!! :K)
Posted by: Peppermint Twist, Thursday, February 10, 2011, 6:34pm; Reply: 24
Double Dudes with a Dawgs on Top!!!!!!!!

I just re-ran my SWAMI report yet again!  WHY?  Because I just realized that I've lost over 25 lbs since the last time I ran it (since the last time I ran it before today, that is--I have NOT lost 25 lbs since earlier today  ;D)!  WOW!

...Fats/oils still came out the same as when I just re-ran it (see earlier post from today) before realizing that I needed to update the weight, but after updating the waist and hip and after Dr. D's tweaking.  I'm still now at six tablespoons per week.  Not sure if I ever get my fingerprint info sorted/correct that it would make any diff, so apparently I really do need to cut my fats back, but at least six tablespoons per week is something somewhat approachable.  So I shall try to cut my added fat intake down way down from this point forward...I probably won't get all the way down to six tablespoons per week, but I'll see, in the immortal words of limbo-ers, how low I can go!  I wouldn't WANT to get lower than six tablespoons per week, but I'll see how low I can go in getting close to it, or maybe even to it.  One never knows  what one is capable of until one tries...
Posted by: yaeli, Thursday, February 10, 2011, 6:40pm; Reply: 25
Quoted from Peppermint Twist
Update to my update:  DUDES!   :D

It is very dicey for me to be posting at the moment, but d*mn the torpedoes, just have to report that:

I re-ran my SWAMI and my fat portion recommendations have gone from one tablespoon per week, to SIX tablespoons per week!  YAY!  Mind you, not sure if that is all due to Dr. D's above-referenced tweaking or to the fact that--YAY!--since the last time I ran SWAMI, my waist has shrunk by two inches and my hips have shrunk by three inches!  :D :D :D

Whatever the change is due to, my fat recommendation has jumped to a theoretically doable level!  I suggest you all re-run yours and see which way the crow flies!

Wow! That's the best news of the day!!!!! Thank you precious Edna.
Posted by: Peppermint Twist, Thursday, February 10, 2011, 7:20pm; Reply: 26
Well, I re-ran it AGAIN to adjust my activity level from moderately active to very active.  Still at six tablespoons per week.  I get the distinct feeling Dr. D really means I should be at six tablespoons per week.   ;D  So I am going to try to get in the general 'hood of that.  It will be a challenge for me, but again, one never knows until one tries...

:D
Posted by: yaeli, Friday, February 11, 2011, 7:32am; Reply: 27
This is a great amazing thread!
The integrity, the candor, the initiative, the co-operation, the results, the sweetness, the sense of humour - a diamond!
Saluting you dearest gatherer friends.
Pardon me for being emo. Just a gatherer's typical.
Posted by: ruthiegirl, Friday, February 11, 2011, 12:26pm; Reply: 28
Or you could aim for one tablespoon per day- it's only up very slightly from 6 tablespoons per week and is an easier number to think about.
Posted by: gembead, Friday, February 11, 2011, 1:43pm; Reply: 29
I'm a gatherer and swami says only 2 tablespoons per week, do you i need to include my 2 fish oil caps into that , I take them each day.
Posted by: MsRubyLu, Friday, February 11, 2011, 4:46pm; Reply: 30
I reran my swami and I also updated my lost weight and inches.  I have 6 T now instead of 1 per week.  I'm soooo happy ;D  Thanks Peppermint  :)
Posted by: BCgal, Saturday, February 12, 2011, 3:21pm; Reply: 31
Mine switched up to 1 tbsp. 6x week too.  Great!  One thing I was wondering though, is whether I could up my ghee as part of that oil consumption.  I know it's in the dairy catagory, but I use it as an oil in my stirfrys every morning.  I'm only supposed to have 1/2 tsp. 3x week and that's not happening.  Any thoughts?
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