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BTD Forums  /  Eat Right 4 Your Type  /  B12 deficient, celiac A blood types with vitiligo
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Posted by: christaalyssaA+, Monday, August 9, 2010, 7:22am
I'm always excited when I researching things and find amazing new health information that proves the BTD correct and gives me more insights in how to better care for myself and others.

Here it goes...

I was looking for vitamin deficiencies in vitiligo suffers (because I have it and it has been getting worse since I've been following my BTD/GTD. But other than that getting healthier in every other way.) What I found was B12, Folic Acid and Zinc.

Than as I researched further I came upon an article that said celiacs are extremely low in vitamin B12. (I just recently came to terms with the reality that I have celiac disease.)

Than I looked for foods that are high in B12. The list is meat, cheese, pretty much everything that an A blood type shouldn't eat. Except for certain BTD compatible fish (Mackerel, Salmon, Tuna and Trout) and nutritional yeast spreads (like Marmite or Vegimite).

So it got me thinking... What if an A blood type who is already B12 deficient and is a celiac doesn't like eating fish? or nutritional yeast?

It is a very good idea to seriously follow the amounts and eat from each food group we are given to eat from as we follow our BTD/GTD's.

Yes you could take a supplement instead of eating the food that has the vitamins in it, but I believe the vitamins are more bioavailable if you eat them in the foods they come in.

So my question is... Do you have any of these B12 deficiencies symptoms as an A and are you eating your required amounts of fish and nutritional yeast? I haven't been but that changes tomorrow!

Here are the symptoms of having deficient B12 levels... because even being borderline deficient can do some seriously bad things.

An effort was made to put the following symptoms more or less in order, beginning with those perhaps most likely to be indicative of B12 deficiency.

1. Itchy or tingling tongue. The tongue suddenly itches from time to time without warning. This occurs on the edge of the tongue, along one side or the other or at the tip. There is an irresistible urge to scratch the tongue on the teeth to stop the itching. Some individuals experience stinging, pain, or tingling instead of itching. (I've personally had this for years.)

2. White spots in the skin, resulting from melatonin becoming absent in the area. These often occur on the outside of the forearm, but may occur in other places. The longer these spots are there, the whiter they get. As time goes by, the spots become very dry and flaky to the extent that small raw spots of skin may be exposed. (I have this and it's only getting worse.)

3. Sharp stabbing, tingling pain in the palm of one or both hands. This occurs suddenly and for no apparent reason in a spot directly below the ring finger, approximately where the first palm crease is. If B12 deficiency is not treated, a tingling pain may begin to occur along the outside edge of the hand, starting from the wrist. This pain occurs when the wrist is flexed backward.
(I had this symptom on and off over 7 years now.)

4. Sores at the corners of the mouth, sometimes extending along the edge of the lip. These are raw spots, not blisters, and they tend to come and go. ( I thought this was cold sores and I used to get them if I over stressed my body and wasn't getting enough sleep.)

5. Nerve shock in the side of the body. It can be felt coming on a few seconds before it hits, and then it hits almost like a mild but deep electric shock and quickly subsides. It can occur at the side of either hip or on either side of the upper body, along the ribs. Worse yet, it can occur consecutively in at least two or three locations, one right after the other.

6. Shortness of breath, but without chest pain. This can occur when walking just a few yards. (Yep, this one too for me.)

7. Eye twitch, usually in one eye or the other. It can occur on the eyelid or just below the eye. This is not usually painful, just annoying. (This was brought up recently by someone wondering what they should do to fix their eye twitching problem. And yes, I've had this one too.)

8. Facial pain, usually on only one side of the face at a time. This pain varies so much that it would be difficult to describe all the possibilities. It can be a dull pain in the cheek bone right underneath an eye. It can also be a sharp shooting pain across the forehead, sometimes coming downward from the scalp to the edge of the nose by the eye. This pain can be excruciating but is usually fleeting.

9. Tingling along the back of one or both thighs, staring at the hips and shooting downward. This starts out as more an annoyance than pain, but can develop into pain if not treated.

10. Memory loss and/or disorientation. For borderline deficiency, these should be mild if they occur at all. They can be severe with extreme deficiency.

11. Migraine headaches. These may be preceded by a temporary blind spot in the center of the field of vision, usually lasting about ten minutes, and sometimes followed by facial pain under the eyes. After the blind spot vanishes, there may be zigzag streaks through the vision that may last up to hours. Even in the same person, there may be extreme variations in the headaches themselves. They may be quite severe with nausea or they may be virtually nonexistent. How can it be a migraine if there's virtually no pain? Doctors say it's a migraine if the described visual problems occur, whether there is significant pain or not.

(Migraines of most individuals have causes other than B12 deficiency, but migraines of certain individuals diminish or stop completely after they are treated for B12 deficiency.)

12. General feeling of fatigue. Although listed last, this may be the most common symptom, but it is also a symptom of many, many other ailments.

Are there any other possible symptoms?

This list is certainly not all-inclusive. There are other possible symptoms deliberately omitted here because they're relatively rare and/or debatable as to the actual cause. The symptoms listed here are for a borderline to mild deficiency. Extreme B12 deficiency can cause very extreme symptoms, including mental dullness, coma, and even death.

Posted by: Chloe, Monday, August 9, 2010, 12:46pm; Reply: 1
I have gluten intolerance, and some patches of vitiligo on my lower arms and I have voted that I had many symptoms you listed. In fact, the week I started taking the NAP B12, my tongue got tingly and weird.....It hadn't happened when I was taking a sublingual B12 that was 5 mg.  I had to double up supplementation because the NAP formula was less mg than mine....  THanks for
posting the list of B12 deficiency symptoms.  At one time or another I've had many of them.

Advantage of being a Teacher is that I get cheese.  Disadvantage is that I'm gluten intolerant and
most people who are also are casein intolerant.  I've tried and tried to tolerate dairy...I can eat it
a few days a week in very small portions, but overall, I still have issues being allergic to it.

I do use nutritional yeast and get to eat chicken livers...so my diet probably gives me an additional
edge over yours.

I think it would be useful if SWAMI adjusted for a severe B12 deficiency. Even for an A who wasn't an Explorer....Perhaps even some red meat.  I feel I'm borderline....Not severely deficient, but I have
to supplement daily with B12.  I tried the NAP B12 formula 2x a day...When I took it at night, I
felt wired and couldn't fall asleep.  I'm back to taking my B12 in the AM and rotating it with the
NAP formula every other day just so I get enough folic acid. If tongue gets tingly again, I'm going
to have to go back to what I was doing...5 mg every day of B12 sublingually...methylcobalamin.
Posted by: C_Sharp, Monday, August 9, 2010, 2:49pm; Reply: 2
SWAMI GenoType (available only through practitioners) allows a practitioner to adjust SWAMI food selections to emphasize foods containing B12.

You can somewhat accomplice this effect in SWAMI Xpress by indicating in the lab data section that you have anemia.
Posted by: joyfulheart, Monday, August 9, 2010, 3:08pm; Reply: 3
Check it out - I just posted about my twitchy eye - thought it might be magnesium, but B supplements did the trick!  I have experienced a couple of the other symptoms, not extensively though.

Lamb is a diamond for me - I have been going out of my way to indulge once a week per SWAMI - and I developed the twitch anyway, so I am going to begin supplementing with NAP's B12.  Will report!
   ;D
Posted by: 8998 (Guest), Monday, August 9, 2010, 3:26pm; Reply: 4

Wow, that's amazing that you mentioned the stabbing finger pain! I thought it was a weird thing unique to me. I have experienced many other of your symptoms as well, the eye twitch, etc.



I don't eat fish or meat, (just can't stand the taste) so I am always on the search for amino acids and the B vits.

What has helped me, since we don't seem to absorb B12 through the gut, is to let a double dose dissolve under my tongue.

At one point in my life I got therapeutic dose levels injected for a month and that really made a huge improvement in my symptoms.

I spread marmite on spelt bread, top with an onion slice, roasted turkey and cheese. Marmite seems to be a good B12 source. I have been able to put a little nutritional yeast in my green smoothie drink in the blender and it hides the flavor enough that I can get it down.

Other Sx of B12 def. can also include less REM sleep, which leads to fibromyalgia. The B12 injections helped me a lot with this.
Posted by: christaalyssaA+, Monday, August 9, 2010, 4:06pm; Reply: 5
Wow! Thank you everyone so far who has shared! It's always great to know we are not the only one with similar issues.

Thank you for also sharing about the dissolving b12 under your tongue. I'll have to look for that. I was feeling like the injection would also be an option. I'm just not sure what else would be in the injected fluid... so not feeling too comfortable with that. I'll have to research it.
Posted by: Ribbit, Monday, August 9, 2010, 4:39pm; Reply: 6
I'm doing B12 injections for the very reasons you listed.  If you have 6 hours with nothing to do, you can go read my ER thread. ;)
Posted by: Chloe, Monday, August 9, 2010, 9:16pm; Reply: 7
I've read that you're never supposed to take isolated Bs...that it's important to take the whole
spectrum. Is this true?
Posted by: Ribbit, Monday, August 9, 2010, 10:21pm; Reply: 8
Probably.(mad)
Posted by: Chloe, Tuesday, August 10, 2010, 12:33am; Reply: 9
I didn't know where to post this article...It's fine if it needs to be moved..but I found this interesting

.......the hypothesis that gluten intolerance could have been triggered by a virus.  I had mono in college... grew up with no signs of gluten intolerance but after mono, my digestive problems began....and got progressively worse....until I had full blown signs of celiac by the time I was in
my 30s.  Went for upper and lower GI series and was told I had "gastritis"...I honestly feel this
was the beginning...and probably when it became close to impossible to absorb B12 from
my diet...or even be able to absorb nutrients from anything I was eating.

http://www.aka.fi/en-gb/A/Academy-of-Finland/The-Academy/Releases/Virus-infections-may-be-contributing-factor-in-onset-of-gluten-intolerance/
Posted by: christaalyssaA+, Tuesday, August 10, 2010, 4:00am; Reply: 10
If I take B Complex I get niacin flushes. So no I wouldn't say that all B's should be taken together. I had read though that zinc should be with the B12 to help the body process the B's better.
Posted by: Possum, Tuesday, August 10, 2010, 6:21am; Reply: 11
Re that B complex thing... I have been told that same thing - you must take all B's together... :-/

Wish I could get to the bottom/truth of it ??) ::)

Maybe if you are getting enough in your foods you may only be missing one or two in particular, so might be no need to supplement with all :-/ ??)

After all, if you really don't need extra of the others they are just gonna go down the drain... ::) ??)
Posted by: Ribbit, Tuesday, August 10, 2010, 3:02pm; Reply: 12
The nice thing about B12 (and maybe the others as well, I don't know) is that they're water soluble.  So if you take too much, you just pee it out.  
Posted by: Kristin, Tuesday, August 10, 2010, 3:51pm; Reply: 13
Quoted from Chloe
I didn't know where to post this article...It's fine if it needs to be moved..but I found this interesting

.......the hypothesis that gluten intolerance could have been triggered by a virus.  I had mono in college... grew up with no signs of gluten intolerance but after mono, my digestive problems began....and got progressively worse....until I had full blown signs of celiac by the time I was in
my 30s.  Went for upper and lower GI series and was told I had "gastritis"...I honestly feel this
was the beginning...and probably when it became close to impossible to absorb B12 from
my diet...or even be able to absorb nutrients from anything I was eating.

http://www.aka.fi/en-gb/A/Academy-of-Finland/The-Academy/Releases/Virus-infections-may-be-contributing-factor-in-onset-of-gluten-intolerance/


Oh - interesting Chloe!! My ND remarked that many people have difficulties absorbing B 12. I wonder if gluten intolerance leading to intestinal absorption problems plays a role? Hmmmm....

Regarding the B vits taken together - the standard treatment for B 12 deficiency is to load heavily on B 12 without the addition of other B vitamins (other than folic acid). So not sure there.

Posted by: charlie2, Tuesday, August 10, 2010, 3:51pm; Reply: 14
Hi all.  Interesting, I have all but 8,9,10, and 11.  I have been taking B complex and seems to help some. I do have fibromyalgia and tongue tingling and sores. And do not have a gluten problem that I know of now. I do not do any dairy or cheese for two years now. Have given up all red meat, just eat fish and turkey. Never tried nutritional yeast. Will have to check it out. I am doing the Blood type A diet to start, will try Swami later.  The strange part is an O daughter with Lupus is super low on B12 and her daughter(blood type unknown) is also super low on B12 and they both get injections monthly. I never connected the symptoms with B12 deficient. Looked at each one seperately.  Thank you for your information.  Very helpfull.(clap)
Posted by: ABJoe, Tuesday, August 10, 2010, 4:41pm; Reply: 15
Quoted from Chloe
I've read that you're never supposed to take isolated Bs...that it's important to take the whole spectrum. Is this true?

It is important to have a balance in the system, but if 1 is very low, then it is OK to supp. that one alone...
Posted by: cajun, Tuesday, August 10, 2010, 8:00pm; Reply: 16
I have had # 2, 6, 7, 8 and 10. I eat salmon or tuna weekly but NO YEAST!!!! I cannot and do not eat yeast due to sinus issues.
Now you have me wondering if I need extra supplements. ??)
I take NAP's Basic pack for BT A.
Posted by: DoS, Wednesday, August 11, 2010, 6:43am; Reply: 17
Quoted from ABJoe

It is important to have a balance in the system, but if 1 is very low, then it is OK to supp. that one alone...


B6 can be overdone; the toxicity of it can cause major damage. B12 has no limit.

You may benefit from a balance of most B vitamins, but just for safety reasons I would watch B6, and not fear B12.
Posted by: christaalyssaA+, Sunday, August 15, 2010, 5:42am; Reply: 18
Found an amazing B12 that dissolves in my mouth. It is like a breath freshener strip. They are 1000 mcg each. I have been taking two per day and muscle testing to see whether or not I should take more whenever I think about it through the day. Since it's water soluble it cool if I take more than my body can absorb but I feel more peaceful and happy that I can ever remember feeling. I also went out for sushi a couple nights this week and this really good sushi place had had a few different types of mackerel which is the highest B12 levels of all fish. Both different ways that I had it was so yummy! One was grilled lightly and the other was simmered perfectly in miso sauce. Wow, if I wasn't on holiday and lived close to the sushi restaurant I would go there as much as I could afford it! WOW!

And I feel AMAZING!!!
Posted by: deblynn3, Friday, November 12, 2010, 2:37pm; Reply: 19
I was told if you are taking a single B (as B12) than to take a complex as well. O here always in need of B vit.

Oh, and I think I've had at least 1/2 of the list at on time or other

I didn't vote since was for A's but thought might be of interest.
Posted by: Lin, Friday, November 12, 2010, 3:24pm; Reply: 20
Good post.  I have or have had many of the symptoms also. Also Gluten/dairy intolerant.  I was taking B12 sublingual last year, and stopped them when I went to work with the acupuncturist.  I have been noticing more and more white spots arms and legs.  The dermatologist had said a year ago when it was just on the arms it was too much sun, but now I wonder!
Posted by: Symbi, Sunday, November 14, 2010, 4:24am; Reply: 21
Wondering if I have it too.  Have most of those symptoms (great helpful post Christal!)  Like Chloe, was diagnosed with gastritis (antral), annoyingly they didn't biopsy to find out why.   ::) Would have been good to know if it was temporary, autoimmune etc.  Could have been from H Pyrlori which I've now treated.  

Been complaining of fatigue, autoimmune issues for years and even the rheumatologist didn't check for B12 issues.  I read that B12 deficiency is more common than people think and is under diagnosed.

Am going to request a blood test (read that it doesn't always show up, test for high methylmalonic acid).  May get injections and then go onto supplements (will make sure aluminium and preservative free preferably methylated version).  Just recently had the cracks in the corners of the mouth which could also be low iron, zinc, copper or folate, B12.

I'm low in iron (low iron and ferritin) my Mean Cell Volume is low of the middle.  Being B12 or folate deficient usually makes larger MCV (Macrocytic anemia), Iron makes them smaller (Microcytic anemia).  So having medium sized doctors wouldn't suspect B12.  Could have iron and b12 deficiency at the same time with medium sized cells! Also having good folate levels (and wouldn't we all we good rabbits) can make the cells smaller masking the B12 deficiency.  

Hope that helps someone!
Posted by: Possum, Sunday, November 14, 2010, 5:20am; Reply: 22
Quoted from Symbi
Wondering if I have it too....having medium sized doctors wouldn't suspect B12.
Ummm would large or small sized doctors suspect more?

Posted by: christaalyssaA+, Sunday, November 14, 2010, 8:31am; Reply: 23
I'm still in search of the right balance of vitamin/minerals and the best way to supplement. I've been using an amazing transdermal magnesium and am starting to feel even better. There's a thread on it somewhere in here. Most people are also magnesium deficient and it's a very important thing to get into your body if you are lacking as it is needing for over 300 different functions in the body.

The white spots? Are they patches of white? I'm talking dime size and larger. If they are freckle sized white spots it could be a bit of sun damage and spraying your skin with magnesium will help to heal and get rid of those.

Still taking my B12 subs. Forgot for a bit but am back on them. I have also been taking copper and zinc ( two weeks at a time and alternating between them). I realized I was low potassium too. Will the list never end? Trying to figure out the best way to take vitamins/minerals supplements is just about as difficult as finding a good source and knowing how much to take. Medical Drs helps is laughably useless to me as they know nothing about preventative medicine. I actually keep meeting potential dating partners and than find out they are in the medical profession and I run in the other direction. I just could never be happy with someone who believes that drugs cure or heal things.
End of rant.

Back to vitamins/minerals though... does anyone here know the best way to take any certain ones and what is your source?
Posted by: Lin, Monday, September 24, 2012, 5:49pm; Reply: 24
I did a search and came across this thread, and want to thank Christaalyssa for the great article and rest of you for adding your experience.  I'd forgotten about the B12 concern, guess I was doing fine for a while.  This year life being extra busy haven't been so consistent taking vitamins, and recently was having several symptoms listed, sting tongue, twitchy eyelid, plus a few more and now kicking myself about forgetting.  Also have large RBC.  Need to get back to those vitamins.  The Naturopath group I go to told me best to take a multi along with B complex or any other single vitamins.
Lin
Posted by: Chloe, Monday, September 24, 2012, 6:02pm; Reply: 25
My link from two years ago that I posted here doesn't seem to work.

But here's a link on same subject that does.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/03/100305083304.htm
Posted by: AKArtlover, Thursday, September 27, 2012, 5:18pm; Reply: 26
Mega Food 100% Whole Food Balanced B Complex

Vitamins from rice, broccoli and saccharomyces cerevisiae

I wonder which came first, the deficient state or the illness or vicious cycle?

(whistle)
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