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Posted by: PCUK-Positive, Tuesday, April 13, 2010, 10:42am
Hello again - I'm on about Clothes today.

Now that we have sorted the food side of things for Emily Bar a few experiments.

I have found that the clothes side of things is a bit of an issue. This may have made us think that some foods that may have been okay were actually not.

The labels are an issue, but also the thread that is used is at the bottom of the sleeves and around the waist and around the ankles on trousers creating an itch.

Cotton seems to be fine, Going to start buying long sleeve tin T shirts that she can wear beneath her clothes.

Please let me know what MATERIALL YOU "O'S" can and cannot wear and any tips for my four year old.
Posted by: Henriette Bsec, Tuesday, April 13, 2010, 10:52am; Reply: 1
I have an O type daughter a you can see
  and she can ONLY wear natural materials
Cotton, wool( only organic untreated), linned(flax), silk , bamboo and maybe viscose- anything with high levels of polyester makes her itch
Its an awfull trouble now that she is a teen and wants to wear all the cheap clothes other teens wear.
She now can handle a little nylon and polyester in bras and leggings- but she still prefers natural products.
We also need to watch our detergent/soaps
I use Bio D http://www.biodegradable.biz/products.html
a lot or another danish product without perfumes.
Posted by: PCUK-Positive, Tuesday, April 13, 2010, 11:32am; Reply: 2
Thanks for that, very helpful

I, or should I say my partner uses Surcare http://www.surcare.co.uk/ but only the products that don't have citric acid it them. so just powders really. but changing from ordinary washing powder made a big difference.

Interesting you say wool (Only organic untreated) where do you get that - Emily went mad when we tries a woollen jumper on her - she was couldn't get it off her quickly enough and started screaming that it was trying to electrocute her - tuned out it had poly something in it as well though, must be the static charge or something that causes the problem, something else for me to look into lol.
Posted by: PCUK-Positive, Tuesday, April 13, 2010, 11:40am; Reply: 3
Actually Hen, just noticed your product has citric acid in it, they usually do if they are a liquid, we found that the lack of citric acid made a big difference, it is usually made from corn apparently and is a mould of some sort, we found out later. Try surcare sometime, it’s a small packet, might be good for you too.
Posted by: Andrea AWsec, Tuesday, April 13, 2010, 11:46am; Reply: 4
I think this is a nonnie thing?
Posted by: PCUK-Positive, Tuesday, April 13, 2010, 12:17pm; Reply: 5
yes to the Nonnie thing - for sure- i just winder WHY? there must be a good reason.
Posted by: Henriette Bsec, Tuesday, April 13, 2010, 12:52pm; Reply: 6
More correct I use the wahing powder - I don´t think it has citric acid- but it doesn´t bother me.
I know several kids that can´t handle super wash wool- but can handle organic untreated wool.
BUT some still cant.

Emma can handle this silk /merino blend
http://www.cambridgebaby.co.uk/catalog/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=127_158&zenid=9fsm7oege1q3b7aninui6vcmt7

look here for more shops

http://www.alotoforganics.co.uk/cats/clothes.php

My mum knit her a jumper in organic untreated wool.
Posted by: mikeo, Tuesday, April 13, 2010, 1:03pm; Reply: 7
try clothes made from hemp...they last forever...this is why hemp growing in the states is banned (has nothing to do with marijuana laws)...it would destroy the cotton industry...usually found online...just google hemp clothes...oh and no pesticides are ever needed to grow hemp
Posted by: SoulfulLori, Tuesday, April 13, 2010, 1:15pm; Reply: 8
It might not be material.  I have dermatographism which is a condition where pressure or temp changes causes uticaria or whelts and hives.  If you put an ice cube on my arm I will have hives from it or when I go out into the cold I am covered in hives.  Elastic waste bands, sitting on my hands, tight cuffs...all make hives.  My bra...you name it.  It isn't the material. I dont' know if this is the issue but you might want to think about it.  I always thought it was material until an allergist told me what it was.
Posted by: ruthiegirl, Tuesday, April 13, 2010, 1:21pm; Reply: 9
I've always preferred natural fiber clothes. I have worn some poly/cotton blends in the past, and it varies widely how much it bugs me. When I was a vain teenager I wore what was fashionable for school then changed into cotton pajamas when I got home. At all other times in my life, I only wore what was comfortable.

Nylon doesn't seem to be as problematic as polyester. I don't particularly like nylon by itself, but I don't mind it blended with wool, cotton, or rayon. I only wear synthetic bras because cotton ones don't provide enough support. I can handle synthetic blends in a skirt or a sweater (worn over a cotton t-shirt or blouse) but anything that touches a lot of my skin directly needs to be natural.

Except for this one blouse with Tigger on it. It's my least comfortable shirt, but it's too cool to not wear. But if I get sweaty while wearing it, I'll need to change it sooner than a cotton shirt.
Posted by: PCUK-Positive, Tuesday, April 13, 2010, 1:39pm; Reply: 10
dermatographism that's a new one for me to look into I think I’m become a Munchausen by proxy lol.

With Emily it's certainly could be a pressure thing put only seems to be with certain and usually not 100 cotton items like labels and stitching so maybe there is a form of dermatographism that is only affected by synthetics or vice versa.

all this talk of bra's is making me hot lol
Posted by: Heidi, Tuesday, April 13, 2010, 2:54pm; Reply: 11
Labels and stitching bother my kids too, but I think it is more to do with the texture of them then an actual allergy. They can be very sharp and poke and scratch until they drive you crazy.

Dressing a young nonnie child can be a challenge. My girls would only wear cotton knits for many years. Many tears were shed before I figured out what they would happily wear (not much, ha!). They have branched out slightly now that they are nearly 16, but comfort is still the #1 consideration with any garment. The fabrics have to be soft, no lace trims, nothing too tight, smooth seams (especially in socks) and all tags removed. Shopping is still a major chore. I always look for natural fibers (synthetics are uncomfortable to me as well) and use unscented detergents and no smelly fabric softeners  :P

I bet most nudists are nonnies  ;D

As for wool, cashmere is the only wool that I can comfortably wear next to my skin. It is very soft.
Posted by: Plucky, Tuesday, April 13, 2010, 3:24pm; Reply: 12
I try to stick to cotton as much as possible, the really soft kind.  Wool make me break out in eczema.  Anything binding or tight in the slightest makes me sweat and itch so the less there is and the looser it is, the better.  Even socks bug me and sometimes I have to wear them insideout to keep the seam from bugging my toes.  I usually go barefoot and wear loose capris and t-shirts from fall through spring.  And I make sure the clothes I buy are not stitched with that thread that's like fine fishing line...it's way too pokey!

I think one of the best inventions ever was the stamped in t-shirt tag and the worst was when they started adding 5% spandex to my cotton t-shirts  :'(
Posted by: SoulfulLori, Tuesday, April 13, 2010, 3:31pm; Reply: 13
Quoted from PCUK-Positive
dermatographism that's a new one for me to look into I think I’m become a Munchausen by proxy lol.

With Emily it's certainly could be a pressure thing put only seems to be with certain and usually not 100 cotton items like labels and stitching so maybe there is a form of dermatographism that is only affected by synthetics or vice versa.

all this talk of bra's is making me hot lol


Well, it is true you can go really overboard with every little reaction your child has and live your life around it and have people think you are a nut.  YOu don't want your child focused on what is wrong with her but rather what is right.

I am a nonnie and have a long history of weird reactions since I was a baby.  My siblings thought I was weak and other kids made fun of me for always being "sick".  As I grew I looked for answers and names for all these things.  Sure, I found some and others were a mystery...now I know it was food issues and nonnie issues.  However, in the end fixing these issues was not really necessary but rather learning that they were my normal so to speak.  I do what I can to limit toxins for myself in the form of food and stress and then just move on.  These weird nonnie things used to be what made me different now I think what makes me different is my outlook and my work...I'm much prouder of that.

Dermatographism is a mast cell wall weakness issue that has little to do with the type of substance rather just pressure or temperature change.  So perhaps she is allergic to the actual fabric.  Also, perhaps all of this is temporary and her body will "toughen up" once she is on a regular diet of things that aren't allergens for her.  My best to dear Emily.
Posted by: Victoria, Tuesday, April 13, 2010, 5:22pm; Reply: 14
I've discovered the joys of wearing silk;  the garment that is closest to the skin, such as undershirt and leggings.  Very tremendously wonderful!
Posted by: battle dwarf, Tuesday, April 13, 2010, 5:24pm; Reply: 15
i have had some probs with some detergents.
i use method now here are the engredents but they are all greek to me.
water,sodium laureth sulfate,coconut oil,ethoxylate and glycerin,sodium citrate,oleic acid and glyceryl oleate, sodium hydroxide, sodium borate, amylase,cellulase and protease, calcium chloride, essentoils ans and botanical exstracts*,less than 0.05 presevative(details online)
*lavender, lavadin,eucalptus,pine, and linalool
i happen to love the soothing smell of this but they also make a sent free verson.
Posted by: Lola, Wednesday, April 14, 2010, 12:15am; Reply: 16
Quoted Text
sodium laureth sulfate


many are allergic to this
Posted by: Ribbit, Wednesday, April 14, 2010, 1:33am; Reply: 17
Two of my children and I have this problem with clothes as well.  My son (5) always pulls on the collars of his shirts and says he can't breathe (they're not tight).  My daughter (7) refuses to wear turtlenecks, turns her socks inside out, straps her shoes "just right", won't wear underwear with lace, often wants the tags cut out of her shirts.....etc.  I'm sensitive to tight clothing especially around my waist or neck.  Even elastic annoys me.  I like skirts cut on the bias so they "give" without having to have elastic.  It takes me forever to get a pair of shoes that really fit.  New Balance seems to do the trick most of the time.  And they have to be wide across the toe and tight across the arch.  

Yes, these are non-secretor traits.  My children have improved with diet and understanding (on my part, in helping them choose or reject clothes), but I believe they will always be sensitive.

Ugh.  And don't get me started about bras!!!  My back often feels like I have ants crawling on it.  It itches under the band area right in the center of my back and about two inches in either directions, especially for a while after I remove it.
Posted by: grey rabbit, Wednesday, April 14, 2010, 1:57am; Reply: 18
Learn to spin!! Usually it is the processing that wool goes through that is the problem with wool. If you look at wool under a microscope it has scales, kinda like a fish has. When wool is treated to be "washable" or otherwise processed by manufacturers the scouring agents used make the "scales" pop open, so microscopically you're looking at something that is pretty rough. Also the micron count of wools varies from breed to breed, merino is pretty soft. Alpaca is softer (not really wool, we call it fiber) the fiber from goats, cashmere, also has a low micron count. I used to raise angora rabbits (no rabbits were ever harmed in the collection of their fiber!) and it has an even lower micron count and the "fish scales" are long and smooth, making it a very luxurious fiber. My new favorite fiber is TENCEL, a cellulose fiber from trees, very enviro friendly and very hypo-alergenic.  
Posted by: PCUK-Positive, Wednesday, April 14, 2010, 1:14pm; Reply: 19
I was just refered to these people Helen And Nick

cambridgebaby.co.uk

they sell merino stuff and are increasing theor line in the next 6 months for older childeren and adults, nice people too.
Posted by: PCUK-Positive, Thursday, April 15, 2010, 1:27am; Reply: 20
I just found out that Emily's Nursery Polo Shirt, although majorly expensive, with nursery logo on etc, is a miserable 35% Cotton and 65 % Polyester - binned and bought 100 % cotton this afternoon for her so I await the improvement - It's one discovery after another.

Also confirmed that her Swab test indicates she is indeed a Non Secretor
Posted by: Lola, Thursday, April 15, 2010, 4:42am; Reply: 21
one less mystery solved!
Posted by: Sharon, Thursday, April 15, 2010, 5:30am; Reply: 22
My mom tells me that when I was little it was very hard shopping for clothes. I'd always tell her that the clothes "hurt" me. She thought I was just being a fashion diva but it turns out that the only material I can wear comfortably is cotton. I'm also going to try Mikeo's Hemp idea.
Posted by: Possum, Thursday, April 15, 2010, 8:40am; Reply: 23
Quoted from PCUK-Positive
I just found out that Emily's Nursery Polo Shirt, although majorly expensive, with nursery logo on etc, is a miserable 35% Cotton and 65 % Polyester - binned and bought 100 % cotton this afternoon for her so I await the improvement - It's one discovery after another.

Also confirmed that her Swab test indicates she is indeed a Non Secretor
Great that you have found that out!! Hmmm wondering could you have sold it on a trade me site or at the school?

Posted by: Possum, Thursday, April 15, 2010, 8:47am; Reply: 24
Interesting that cotton is coming up trumps for everyone :-/ despite all the pesticides etc that are sprayed on the crops ??)
Posted by: Goldie, Thursday, April 15, 2010, 9:49am; Reply: 25
Quoted Text
I used to raise angora rabbits (no rabbits were ever harmed in the collection of their fiber!) and it has an even lower micron count and the "fish scales" are long and smooth, making it a very luxurious fiber. My new favorite fiber is TENCEL, a cellulose fiber from trees, very enviro friendly and very hypo-alergenic.  


I am so impressed what we can learn here.. But tell me now why angora used to itch more than anything.. like sticking me ?/

As for Emily .. how long will it take for this dad (haha) to see that his little girl is right on for needing 'consideration' for her 'special' body..  I AM so pleased long distance at the changes you are able to accomplish..

one fiber she may like is cellulose, it's made from wood, and has good washing qualities  if it is treated correctly, if not then it will shrink by inches.. its called Rayon.  there are also certain other fabirics that are not making her sensitive, you may have to look for them ( a link I found  
http://organicclothing.blogs.com/my_weblog/2008/07/regenerated-cellulose-fabrics-facts-behind-the-fibers.html

I like all kinds of fabric but I remember getting the most beutiful blue coat from my grandma at age 13.. I loved the color style and texture, but the smell of pure (expensive) WOOL made me not enjoy the coat at al.. I was sorry I had to say thank you and be grateful, but I can still smell it.. so I get it that children need to do what I do.. buy clothes not because they are 'childrens' but becouse I come upon something I like and then buy it.  In that way I am not stuck to buy when the hype is biggest -schools and holidays- I like polyester and I am almost sorry that they now mix all sorts of other stuff with it so that the things don't stay as perfect as before.. now clothes pill and wrinkle more.. and colors run sometime.

So while your little one is sorting things out just take her shopping with you she will tell you what feels good.. just don't get sucked into 'fashion' she might learn to manipulate.. ha-ha never possible.. but NOT all synthtics are the same.. so keep trying.. price may actually be a detriment.. remember diapers they are man-made too.

I am however laughing just a little.. this child's soul has chosen the right parent to make her whole .. she will become a powerhouse of knowledge even before she is grown..

and still with the right foods now she may just overcome many issues that would otherwise affect her BRAIN in unknown ways.. Allergies or sensitivity affects NOT only the outside skin but also all the inner cells.. so your vigilance is right on..

also some clothes is treated for fire retardation and that could also be on issue.. live and learn..  :) :-/          




Posted by: PCUK-Positive, Thursday, April 15, 2010, 10:47am; Reply: 26
I would have happily given it away but can you imagine the response when i said that only a Child that was non secretor of a particular blood group could have it,  - it was binned in the clothes bank though so it will be recycles to some extent.
Posted by: Ribbit, Thursday, April 15, 2010, 11:36am; Reply: 27
Quoted from Possum
Interesting that cotton is coming up trumps for everyone :-/ despite all the pesticides etc that are sprayed on the crops ??)


In Egypt, I have read, they don't have to spray their cotton because they don't have the pests there that we have here.  It just grows naturally there, and it doesn't here, hence the spraying.  Clothing made in different parts of the world may be more likely to use Egyptian cotton.  For example, it seems a good bit of the cotton clothing here is made in Turkey.  Turkey is more likely (I would think) to buy cotton from Egypt than from the US.  So while they do spray new clothing with flame retardants and formaldehyde and who knows what else, so it'll look spiffy in the stores, a good many of the clothes we buy may not actually have that many pesticides on them.
Posted by: Andrea AWsec, Thursday, April 15, 2010, 12:19pm; Reply: 28
Quoted from PCUK-Positive


all this talk of bra's is making me hot lol

And then there are the menes pads that will make her crazy too.
My nonnie friend ended up making her own from pure cotton cloth. They do sell them, but this nonnie is a " I'll do it my way" ;) sort of person.


Posted by: PCUK-Positive, Thursday, April 15, 2010, 1:51pm; Reply: 29
Disney !01 Dalmatians pillow case and duvet cover - Tiny label assumed cotton but NO 65% polyester 35% Cotton, checking everything now - what greedy companies, i mean what kind of savings is 65% going to make on a pillow case.

I have a good mind to stop buying their products. In fact being a man of letters I shall write one.....Walt Disney would turn in his page!
Posted by: ABJoe, Thursday, April 15, 2010, 3:35pm; Reply: 30
Quoted from PCUK-Positive
I mean what kind of savings is 65% going to make on a pillow case.

I have a good mind to stop buying their products. In fact being a man of letters I shall write one.....Walt Disney would turn in his page!

It isn't 1 pillow case...  It is thousands or millions of them...  If they make 3 cents more on each, they have a great additional profit...  From a company's point of view, it is a good thing.  We have to be good consumers and not buy what we don't want.  If enough coin is diverted to other goods, it will change the manufacturing practices...
Posted by: Leanne, Thursday, April 15, 2010, 3:45pm; Reply: 31
You know, my midwife told me once that many babies who were born with the cord around their neck, as adults couldn't tolerate any kind of collar.  Wonder if the cord around the neck messes with being a secretor or non-secretor?  

Leanne
Posted by: PCUK-Positive, Thursday, April 15, 2010, 4:31pm; Reply: 32
Well Emily's cord was round her neck twice, so there could be a relationaship. troupble is i don't know if mine was and i don't know if amber's was so the data trail stops there for us.
Posted by: December, Thursday, April 15, 2010, 4:38pm; Reply: 33
How many Ultrasounds or Doplers did Emily  have in Utero?
Posted by: PCUK-Positive, Thursday, April 15, 2010, 6:09pm; Reply: 34
Never heard of "Doplers" she had the usual ultrasounds, I think about 2 maybe but don't quote me 13 weeks, and 26 weeks maybe. they missed the cord thing somehow, so was born normally (i.e) the old fashioned way, apparently if they had known she would have been caesarean  straight away.
Posted by: ruthiegirl, Thursday, April 15, 2010, 7:56pm; Reply: 35
Quoted from Andrea AWsec

And then there are the menses pads that will make her crazy too.
My nonnie friend ended up making her own from pure cotton cloth. They do sell them, but this nonnie is a " I'll do it my way" ;) sort of person.




We use cotton here too (we keep paper ones on hand for guests and also the girls prefer them for school- no fussing with bringing a soiled pad home.) They're just more comfortable, cheaper, and better for the environment. I don't mind washing them- it's less work than the diapers I used to wash!
Posted by: Ribbit, Thursday, April 15, 2010, 9:06pm; Reply: 36
Good grief, I haven't had a period in so long I've nearly forgotten what it's like.   ;D  I have about one or two between each child....... :B  Let's see if we can make it a little longer this time, shall we?
Posted by: Possum, Thursday, April 15, 2010, 9:54pm; Reply: 37
Quoted from Ribbit


In Egypt, I have read, they don't have to spray their cotton because they don't have the pests there that we have here.  It just grows naturally there, and it doesn't here, hence the spraying.  Clothing made in different parts of the world may be more likely to use Egyptian cotton.  For example, it seems a good bit of the cotton clothing here is made in Turkey.  Turkey is more likely (I would think) to buy cotton from Egypt than from the US.  So while they do spray new clothing with flame retardants and formaldehyde and who knows what else, so it'll look spiffy in the stores, a good many of the clothes we buy may not actually have that many pesticides on them.
Ooh I didn't know this... Thanks Ribbit!! I always thought it was just the extra thread count that made Egyptian cotton superior :-/

Posted by: Lola, Thursday, April 15, 2010, 9:58pm; Reply: 38
less hassle!
http://www.keeper.com/
Posted by: ruthiegirl, Thursday, April 15, 2010, 10:09pm; Reply: 39
I had a diva cup (similar to a keeper but made of silicone instead of gum rubber) and loved it for years, but after a while it started to bother me. So now I use cloth pads. I switched after I got DD1 started on cloth pads, and I've since sewn a bunch for DD2. I still use the diva cup if I'm going to be out all day, but I prefer the pads when I'm at home.
Posted by: PCUK-Positive, Friday, April 16, 2010, 7:47am; Reply: 40
When you girls have quite finished lol,

Ahem... Found a few more polyester bits and pieces, duvet filling 100 % polyester, duvet filler cover 70 % polyester, 30 cotton.

Little accidents safety matt, in case of toddler bed wetting 70 % polyester - Emily hasn't had an accident for years so we can remove that.

Carpets, Rugs all gotta go causing static in her room.

Has anyone gone the whole hog and replaced things like curtains, Towels (must check them actually god it really does go on forever...

What is denim made out of?
Posted by: Sharon, Friday, April 16, 2010, 2:01pm; Reply: 41
Sounds like Emily is a typical Nonnie like me. I need cotton everything and no rugs and no curtains just blinds. I need cotton hats, gloves, socks, pillowcases, etc. Most jewelry irritates my skin, too.
Posted by: ruthiegirl, Friday, April 16, 2010, 2:18pm; Reply: 42
Denim is usually 100% cotton, unless it's that stretch denim that has some lycra woven in.

It's really hard to find quilts with anything other than polyester filling, although blankets with 100% cotton outer layers are easy enough to find.  She may not have a problem with the polyester in a layer that doesn't actually touch her skin. If you want to go with only cotton blankets, then you probably want to get several layers of thermal blankets rather than another puffy quilt.

I wouldn't worry at all about the curtains. I've never seen towels in anything other than 100% cotton (or super expensive bamboo or hemp fibers blended with cotton.)

I'd start with changing the bedding layers that actually touch her skin,along with her clothing, and see how she tolerates these changes. You may not need to worry about the rugs or the curtains or the polyester batting in her quilt. I'd try getting a 100% cotton duvet (like a pillowcase to cover a quilt) to put over her existing quilt before investing in a lot of new blankets.
Posted by: battle dwarf, Saturday, April 17, 2010, 4:54pm; Reply: 43
you could take up quilting.  ;D then you would know exsactly whats in it. they even make bamboo filling now and i have heard of silk but it is mostly for show quilts and is very thin.
Posted by: Goldie, Saturday, April 17, 2010, 6:00pm; Reply: 44
I am nonnie and I just don't even go to try to believe all this..

I would feed this child all that she needs and in time there is no doubt in mymind that she would outgrow the biggest issues and learn to live with the small stuf..

what life will she have if she is insulated.. I believe in the experince within the body to become de-sensitized as time goes on..

if she is tooo clean she will react even more strongly to all other stuff.. will she be allowed to breath the air?  will she heal I think she will and if the air will not get ther then she will adjust.. I just have to believe that.. sanity in place of fear.. relaxation in place of panic.. in a few years she willfind out what geno type she is and adjust her foods to that.. I am actually still thinking that if it was my child I might put her on gatherer for 6 month and or the other types associated to O's and see which is best for her.. they are quite different from one tothe other..

might I ask why have you no info from grandparents and great grand parents to guess at what it is she might have inherited.. Snow white and her many gifts put in the cradle takes on a new meaning..



Posted by: PCUK-Positive, Saturday, April 17, 2010, 6:29pm; Reply: 45
Amber had a clear out of all polyester and polyester ish clothes all gone, Emily seemed okay for a while in nylon. and we wondered about viscous (how do you spell that) whatever that is. I’ll have a re look through the posts but feel free to add any stories
Posted by: PCUK-Positive, Monday, April 19, 2010, 2:53pm; Reply: 46
Any other experience on viscose fabric?
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