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BTD Forums  /  Eat Right 4 Your Type  /  Cultured Vegetables
Posted by: Victoria, Saturday, April 3, 2010, 7:46pm
Culturing vegetables is a healthy practice, which makes raw vegetables easier to digest and supplies a generous serving of enzymes and beneficial microorganisms.  This is a good place to share our techniques, which vegetables we use, successes, problems and results.  :-)

I'd especially like to hear about using other vegetables.  Cabbage and sometimes carrots are very familiar.  Anyone culturing other vegetables?  Some Blood types and Genotypes are not eating cabbage.
Posted by: Lola, Saturday, April 3, 2010, 7:52pm; Reply: 1
beets, jicama.....anything goes  :)
Posted by: Victoria, Saturday, April 3, 2010, 8:00pm; Reply: 2
When you culture other vegetables than cabbage, do you add some cabbage to the mix, or can they stand alone?
Posted by: Andrea AWsec, Saturday, April 3, 2010, 8:08pm; Reply: 3
I use bok choy it is like cabbage but OK for A's and maybe for every blood type?
Posted by: JJR, Saturday, April 3, 2010, 10:02pm; Reply: 4
I've done: Bok choy, Napa cabbage,  I do carrots, cucumbers and zucchini like sticks in water.  Like pickles basically.  But I, of course, don't use vinegar.  I just use the Body Ecology Diet cultured veggie starter.  I put garlic and ginger in almost everything.  I one time put a little bit of crushed up raspberries in with my cabbage.  That was a nice little zing in there.  

Ginger is always my favorite.  I eat the chunks by themselves sometimes.  Cultured or non cultured I eat lots of ginger.  Seems to help my stomach function.  And so does cultured veggies for sure!
Posted by: Victoria, Saturday, April 3, 2010, 10:41pm; Reply: 5
Quoted from Andrea AWsec
I use bok choy it is like cabbage but OK for A's and maybe for every blood type?


Good idea.  I haven't read the blood type food lists recently, but it is good for every genotype except gatherers.  
Posted by: Victoria, Saturday, April 3, 2010, 10:51pm; Reply: 6
Quoted from JJR
I've done: Bok choy, Napa cabbage,  I do carrots, cucumbers and zucchini like sticks in water.  Like pickles basically.  But I, of course, don't use vinegar.  I just use the Body Ecology Diet cultured veggie starter.


I wonder if this would work if we're using a brine solution instead of a starter culture.
Posted by: Drea, Sunday, April 4, 2010, 2:05am; Reply: 7
I've done three batches of cultured veggies without a culture starter in the last month: the first was turnips, green onions, chili paste (an avoid, I know) to make turnip kimchee; the second was sliced carrots and ginger root in a salt-only brine; and the third was shredded carrots and shredded ginger root in a whey/salt brine. I have some beets, more carrots, and some turnips that I'm going to try next.

I have to say that I really liked the turnip kimchee, though it didn't seem to agree with me (probably the chili paste). I also really liked the sliced carrot/ginger in the salt-only brine. The whey was an experiment (the whey is supposed to speed up the fermenting process and allows one to use less salt) but I didn't find it as satisfying texturally to have the veggies shredded.
Posted by: balletomane, Sunday, April 4, 2010, 2:42am; Reply: 8
Drea, thanks a lot for starting this thread. For O's, cabbages are an avoid... I'll try bak choy or maybe the Chinese-style cabbages which are actually of the chicory family, I heard.
So you can culture veggies without a starter? Is salt enough? How do you make the brine? And how long do you keep the veggies in the fridge before they're ready to be consumed?
Posted by: Drea, Sunday, April 4, 2010, 2:57am; Reply: 9
balletomane, I didn't start the thread (Victoria did), but I've had good luck with using salt-only brine. The first and second batches were followed loosely after a video I found on YouTube with Sandor Katz, author of Wild Fermentation. HERE'S a link to the video. The trick to fermenting is to keep the veggies at room temperature, and not to refrigerate them until they are "done" to your liking. The cold will inhibit the process, and the salt kills any "bad" bacteria.
Posted by: balletomane, Sunday, April 4, 2010, 3:03am; Reply: 10
Ooops, sorry... Thanks Victoria for taking the initiative!
Drea, thanks for the video and the tips! Very useful!!!  :)
Posted by: Drea, Sunday, April 4, 2010, 3:20am; Reply: 11
Here's another good article on fermenting.
Posted by: Victoria, Sunday, April 4, 2010, 3:30am; Reply: 12
Drea, that's a great article at the Wild Fermentation site.  It answered a lot of my questions, and here is a paragraph on how much salt to use:

How much salt do you use? Traditionally vegetables have been fermented with lots of salt. In addition to pulling water from the vegetables, salt hardens pectins in the vegetables, rendering them crunchier, and discourages the growth of bacteria other than lactobacilli. By inhibiting competing bacteria, salt enables the vegetables to ferment and to be stored for longer periods of time. Since preservation has historically been one of the important motivations for fermentation, ferments have tended to be quite salty. But for health-conscious people interested primarily in flavor and nutrition, less salt can be better. Salt lightly, to taste.
It is easier to add salt than to take it away, but if you oversalt, you can dilute by adding water and/or more vegetables. There is no magic proportion of salt the process requires—it’s just personal preference. As a starting point, try 3 tablespoons of salt per 5 pound of vegetables. More salt will slow the fermentation process; less (or none) will speed it up. Ferments with less salt may be more prone to surface molds. You can leave out the salt or use various mineral-rich substitutes such as celery juice (my favorite salt-free variation) or seaweed. Just be sure the vegetables are submerged in the liquid.
Posted by: Drea, Sunday, April 4, 2010, 3:56am; Reply: 13
The two batches of salt-only brine were made with 3 Tablespoons of salt per 4 cups of water. I would say it was a tad bit saltier than I usually like. The batch I made with whey, I cut back the salt to 1 Tbs for 1 quart of water and 3 Tbs of whey.
Posted by: Chloe, Sunday, April 4, 2010, 2:17pm; Reply: 14
I grate carrots and ginger, squish them around with salt and stuff it into a jar...let it sit on the counter
for 3 days then refrigerate...  I eat it almost every day.
Posted by: JJR, Sunday, April 4, 2010, 5:11pm; Reply: 15
My brother in law just uses salt.  I prefer the starter because...  well, it just makes me feel safer I guess.  I've had his and they are fine, but they are a little on the salty side.  But still very good.  So, you don't NEED the culture starter.  I just like to use it.  But even with that, I've still had batches that I though might not be completely right, and threw it out.  It just tasted, not right.  But I could've been wrong about it.
Posted by: Victoria, Sunday, April 4, 2010, 5:45pm; Reply: 16
At least some salt seems like a very good idea because salt discourages mold.
Posted by: Victoria, Sunday, April 4, 2010, 5:46pm; Reply: 17
What method do you all use to cover your container while the vegetables are sitting at room temperature?
Posted by: Lola, Sunday, April 4, 2010, 7:27pm; Reply: 18
a cotton cloth
Posted by: Victoria, Sunday, April 4, 2010, 8:06pm; Reply: 19
You make it sound so easy, Lola!  lol!!   ;D
Posted by: Lola, Sunday, April 4, 2010, 10:09pm; Reply: 20
it sure is!!! :)
Posted by: geminisue, Sunday, April 4, 2010, 11:38pm; Reply: 21
I read below one of the u tube videos I watched that someone uses seaweed instead of salt to ferment with, I found this interesting, it didn't say how much.
Posted by: balletomane, Monday, April 5, 2010, 12:22am; Reply: 22
If we use a mason jar, can we use the self-seal type lid that comes with it?
Posted by: Drea, Monday, April 5, 2010, 1:43am; Reply: 23
I've used a canning jar, a jar with a screw on lid, and a glass jar with a clamp seal. All three work as well as the others.
Posted by: balletomane, Monday, April 5, 2010, 1:52am; Reply: 24
Great! I'll give it a try  :)
Posted by: Drea, Monday, April 5, 2010, 1:58am; Reply: 25
In my experience (albeit limited) don't be afraid to try whatever strikes your fancy. If it's bad, start again.
Posted by: Chloe, Monday, April 5, 2010, 2:09am; Reply: 26
Quoted from Victoria
What method do you all use to cover your container while the vegetables are sitting at room temperature?


I stuff my vegetables into an old pickle jar, cover it with the lid and leave it alone for 3 days. Nothing fancy....no special technique.

Honestly, this is the easiest process ever.  Any vegetable, shredded or chopped, thrown into
a bowl, sprinkled with salt...a tsp or more.....use your hands to squish vegetables pretty
well for a few minutes until they give up their own natural juices....stuff everything into any old jar...push solids way down to the bottom of the jar so the liquid stays on top of all the vegetables.

And that's it...you're done.  Leave it out...wait a few days and taste it...If it needs more time,
wait another day or two.

Ideas:  cabbage, cauliflower (in small pieces), onions, garlic, ginger, red peppers, leeks, bits of seaweed (instead of the salt) -- I soak the seaweed first if I think it's too salty and dump the water and just use the seaweed)...carrots, daikon radish, beets, parsnips.  Grated or sliced..but better if all pieces wind up being the same size. I often use the shredding blade of my food processor and mix a lot of different vegetables together..
Posted by: Lola, Monday, April 5, 2010, 2:33am; Reply: 27
I seal once my veggies are fermented and I stick them in the fridge, not before
Posted by: Possum, Monday, April 5, 2010, 3:22am; Reply: 28
Great thread & good advice... ;)
But for me... I'm afraid it reminds me too much of too many tubs of uneaten coleslaw b4 they were thrown out & my unemptied compost... ::)
Posted by: JJR, Monday, April 5, 2010, 3:43am; Reply: 29
Yeah, I use the mason jars.  Or canning jars.  You have to relieve the pressure periodically.  Sometimes once a day with certain mixes.  Other ones can go longer.  But the pressure will build up.  I would just crack them open once a day.  I like to smell them and see how it's going.  The carrots usually bubble pretty extensively.

I do usually add a little salt.  
Posted by: Lola, Monday, April 5, 2010, 3:50am; Reply: 30
sorry about that Possum! :-/
you re missing out on some wonderfully curative fair

AB,
try zucchini for
Quoted Text
bubble pretty extensively
;D
Posted by: Possum, Monday, April 5, 2010, 4:18am; Reply: 31
I believe you ;) I can't do cabbage...maybe I'll try zucchini & carrot one day :-/ :)
Posted by: JJR, Monday, April 5, 2010, 7:15pm; Reply: 32
Hmmmmm...  I've done zucchini and I don't remember them bubbling that much.  I'll have to do them again.
Posted by: Rex, Monday, April 5, 2010, 8:21pm; Reply: 33
Ok, I followed Lola's direction:  I used only salt and set up my watery cabbage for fermentation in a tightly closed glass jar leaving one inch of the juice above the shredded cabbage, between the cabbage & the top of the jar.    Now what happens next?  I wait 5 to seven days and what then?  Please help...I want to do it right.  
Posted by: Chloe, Monday, April 5, 2010, 8:35pm; Reply: 34
Quoted from Rex
Ok, I followed Lola's direction:  I used only salt and set up my watery cabbage for fermentation in a tightly closed glass jar leaving one inch of the juice above the shredded cabbage, between the cabbage & the top of the jar.    Now what happens next?  I wait 5 to seven days and what then?  Please help...I want to do it right.  


Taste it every day....When you think it tastes fermented enough, refrigerate it and eat it...but mine never takes 5-7 days to ferment..usually 4 at the most.
Posted by: Chloe, Monday, April 5, 2010, 8:41pm; Reply: 35
I was thinking that room temperature is different for us, depending on our individual climates.  For me, room temperature all year long might be between 67-74 degrees....cooler in winter, warmer in summer..but never tropically hot inside my house.  I'm wondering if leaving a jar to ferment in a really
warm room makes the fermenting process go faster...??  Just wondering.
Posted by: Lola, Monday, April 5, 2010, 9:19pm; Reply: 36
I do not shut the lid while it ferments, simply cover the stainless steel bowl with a cotton cloth.....once fermented, I transfer to a glass jar, seal and place in the fridge.
Posted by: Victoria, Monday, April 5, 2010, 9:41pm; Reply: 37
Most of the online directions call for weighing down the vegetables while the culturing is taking place, so that they are completely submerged in the brine.  So I think maybe the air space at the top might not be necessary.
Posted by: Rex, Monday, April 5, 2010, 11:21pm; Reply: 38
Victoria...what can I use to weigh down the cabbage?  I saw a YouTube demonstration that did direct me to shut the lid down tight to seal-in the mixture.

Lola...If I leave the lid closed tightly, the liquid will not evaporate...do you think that allowing air to get to the mixture helps it to ferment?   Do you think this is the better way to do it?
Posted by: Andrea AWsec, Monday, April 5, 2010, 11:46pm; Reply: 39
I just push it down every  day.
Posted by: Lola, Tuesday, April 6, 2010, 12:03am; Reply: 40
I first give it a good mix with a spoon, then I push it back down.....daily
Posted by: Drea, Tuesday, April 6, 2010, 12:34am; Reply: 41
Chloe's right in that no water is needed. I just made another batch of turnip kimchee, this time slicing the turnips thinly, grating the carrots finely, adding chopped up green onion, salt, and a little chili paste. After working the veggies with my hands for a couple of minutes, the juices began to flow. The whole thing fit into my canning jar and as I stuffed the veggies in, the juices rose to the top.
Posted by: Rex, Tuesday, April 6, 2010, 1:18am; Reply: 42
This is such a great thread as I'm trying to ferment cabbage for the first time and I am not sure that I'm doing it right.  Right now I have the glass jar sealed tightly with a screw-on lid.  There seems to be so many ways to do this.  I'll just try them all & decide which one I prefer.  Wish me luck.  
Posted by: deblynn3, Tuesday, April 6, 2010, 1:38am; Reply: 43
Has anyone tried okra?  They're the only pickles I like but as a gatherer can't have the vinegar. I like raw okra but this fermenting in getting interesting.  But would they be to thick? you really can't cut them open or they will get slimy. debbie
Posted by: Drea, Tuesday, April 6, 2010, 1:46am; Reply: 44
I think okra would ferment just fine, though it will take longer.
Posted by: JJR, Tuesday, April 6, 2010, 1:48am; Reply: 45
Hmmmm... Okra, that could be interesting.  Not sure if they'd break down enough.  I wouild think so because the wall of it isn't overly thick. Brussels sprouts whole won't work.  You definitely have to crunch them up or something.

Normal room temperature is fine.  You don't need it warm.  In fact some people say a cool, dark place.  But yeah, the colder it is, the longer it will take.
Posted by: deblynn3, Tuesday, April 6, 2010, 2:23am; Reply: 46
I've done sauerkraut in canning jars. Say to put in closet. the jar lids will seal themselves just remember to put in a lined box, the jars will run over. Well if I get Okra up I'll try some. Hopefully next year I'll have our ceiler completed that will keep the temps. even, though it might be a little cool. I did loose sauerkraut once because it got to warm, or at least I think that's what happened. It was two soft. I like not using water. Our water sometimes has to much bleach in it. OK guess you got me.   ;D
Posted by: grey rabbit, Tuesday, April 6, 2010, 2:34am; Reply: 47
Quoted from deblynn3
Our water sometimes has to much bleach in it. OK guess you got me.   ;D


Use bottled (not distilled) water and sea salt if you need water. You could make a brine for okra just like you do for cucumbers to make pickles.
Posted by: deblynn3, Tuesday, April 6, 2010, 2:35am; Reply: 48
just read some of the eariler comments. The carrot might "work" harder because they are a sweet vegetable I remember reading they have the most suger of all vegetables, which is maybe why they are a gatherer black dot. WH adds more sugar to his wine if it stops working.
Posted by: Victoria, Tuesday, April 6, 2010, 2:35am; Reply: 49
Depending on what type of container a person uses . . some use a big crockery pot or wide mouth gallon jar.  Some of those folks use a flat sterilized rock, lay it on top of the vegetables and then cover with cheesecloth.  Or set a small bowl down in the jar, with a stone on top to weigh it down.  

I have heard of using a whole cabbage leaf, folded several times and pushed down on the top of the mixture.  This sounds good to me.
Posted by: deblynn3, Tuesday, April 6, 2010, 2:38am; Reply: 50
Do you use the fine sea salt.
Posted by: deblynn3, Tuesday, April 6, 2010, 2:39am; Reply: 51
I'll need to get some. needed to anyway. and I'll go ahead and get some bottle water. So it'll be here. Who know might try something else.
Posted by: Drea, Tuesday, April 6, 2010, 4:06am; Reply: 52
The fineness (or course-ness) of the sea salt is immaterial. Just use what you have on hand. Remember to sprinkle the salt lightly, and taste as you go. It's much easier to add salt than to remove it.

Try a batch without water and see what happens! The salt brings the moisture out of the veggies; it's pretty amazing.
Posted by: Possum, Tuesday, April 6, 2010, 10:24am; Reply: 53
Quoted from deblynn3
just read some of the eariler comments. The carrot might "work" harder because they are a sweet vegetable I remember reading they have the most suger of all vegetables, which is maybe why they are a gatherer black dot. WH adds more sugar to his wine if it stops working.
I have read that cooking carrots increases their Glycemic Index massively (doubles it I think) & its ok to eat them raw... so wonder if culturing would count as raw or in between?

Posted by: balletomane, Tuesday, April 6, 2010, 11:49am; Reply: 54
Would broccoli work?
Posted by: Drea, Tuesday, April 6, 2010, 12:16pm; Reply: 55
Quoted from balletomane
Would broccoli work?

Try it and let us know!

Posted by: Chloe, Tuesday, April 6, 2010, 12:31pm; Reply: 56
I have done it with broccoli, but I did it two different ways. One time, I just used the stems and
grated them so they were like long stringy pieces and did the same with carrots...combined the
two in one jar......They cultured very well..Another time, I just used the flower-ette pieces (kinda small pieces) and mixed with similar sized pieces of cauliflower...plus garlic, Italian spices and that came out well.  I've found the best results come from all pieces in the jar being similar sizes.

Really, if you don't like what you've made, dump it and start again.  It's all good to eat but it's
just a matter of what you like best.
Posted by: JJR, Tuesday, April 6, 2010, 3:27pm; Reply: 57
Quoted from Lola
I do not shut the lid while it ferments, simply cover the stainless steel bowl with a cotton cloth.....once fermented, I transfer to a glass jar, seal and place in the fridge.


That's interesting!  I never heard it done that way!  But I have heard of people in the old days using wood buckets.
Posted by: JJR, Tuesday, April 6, 2010, 3:31pm; Reply: 58
Also, I leave my cabbage usually longer than 3 days.  I 8 days.  Sometimes the cabbage takes longer to get good than the others.  IMHO.
Posted by: Victoria, Tuesday, April 6, 2010, 4:34pm; Reply: 59
Chloe, when you use things like little broccoli flowers and cauliflower, do you knead them with salt to bring out the juices?  Would it work that way for chunks?
Posted by: Chloe, Tuesday, April 6, 2010, 6:04pm; Reply: 60
Quoted from Victoria
Chloe, when you use things like little broccoli flowers and cauliflower, do you knead them with salt to bring out the juices?  Would it work that way for chunks?


You know, I haven't done this recently so I'm sort of forgetting what I did...I honestly think that
I added the small pieces of unkneaded broccoli and cauliflower to a batch of other
vegetables that were  salted and kneaded...All will ferment  based on the other vegetables that are prepared properly with salt.  Just as long as the broccoli and cauliflower pieces aren't huge. And you wind up with enough liquid to cover all vegetables.

I think if you tried to knead cauliflower, you'd  crumble the flowerettes...and same with the broccoli...All the little pieces would fall off in the process.  And besides, when you make pickles, you don't have the ability to knead a whole cucumber.  And difficult to knead carrot slices.

Perhaps, grated carrots, small chunks of broccoli, cauliflower, onion, garlic. I think the carrots might provide enough liquid to allow me to stuff the other vegetables down far enough so liquid covers them.  Will have to experiment. I know I did this with shredded carrots and shredded
broccoli stems.

I was reading an article online about culturing vegetables and it said to be careful that all your
utensils, hands and container are very clean...otherwise, you might spoil the batch by fermenting some bad bacteria into the mix that might be left in an unclean container.  If you ever see
a batch turn out grey and smelling bad, throw the batch away.  It's tainted with bad bacteria.
The result should always taste pickled...

Posted by: JJR, Tuesday, April 6, 2010, 9:27pm; Reply: 61
Yeah, I use scalding hot water on all utensils, hands (as much as I can stand of course) and glass jars.

When I do the cabbage, I tamp it down in the jar with the end of a pastry roller thing.  That seems to work well.
Posted by: balletomane, Sunday, April 11, 2010, 7:43am; Reply: 62
So now after reading all your suggestions I have started a half-gallon mason jar of fermented veggies  :)!

Yesterday I was out the whole day and when I came home late, I noticed the brine had overflown despite the tight lid. When I opened it there was a mini explosion, LOL!

It must have been the carrot  ;D! I must say it was a wonder to behold this natural creation of bubbles. No carbonation necessary, LOL!

Here are the ingredients I have used:
Beet
Bok choy
Carrot
Garlic
Ginger
Jersusalem artichoke
Re bell pepper
Red onion
Zucchini

It smells so good. Now I'm wondering when I should start to put the jar in the fridge and how long I can keep it. I know there is no hard-and-fast rule but the veggies have started to become soft. Is that a sign that they are getting "ready"? Or should I wait for at least three days?
Posted by: Drea, Sunday, April 11, 2010, 1:32pm; Reply: 63
I suggest you taste them at least once a day. I like mine on the sour side, so that's how long I leave them at room temperature to ferment. Then, when I've "decided" they're done, they go into the fridge.
Posted by: balletomane, Sunday, April 11, 2010, 1:37pm; Reply: 64
I see. So "sour" is the yardstick, eh? I like sour too. Let me go and have a taste  ;)
Posted by: Victoria, Sunday, April 11, 2010, 7:05pm; Reply: 65
Quoted from balletomane

Yesterday I was out the whole day and when I came home late, I noticed the brine had overflown despite the tight lid. When I opened it there was a mini explosion, LOL!

It must have been the carrot  ;D! I must say it was a wonder to behold this natural creation of bubbles. No carbonation necessary, LOL!


So this is the reason Lola covers hers with cloth until the fermenting is finished and ready to go in the fridge!  (hehe)
Posted by: JJR, Sunday, April 11, 2010, 8:18pm; Reply: 66
Quoted from balletomane
I see. So "sour" is the yardstick, eh? I like sour too. Let me go and have a taste  ;)



It's the non vinegar of vinegars.  Except I don't think it's acidic.  But the flavor is similar.  Kind of.  It similar enough to someone who doesn't eat vinegar any longer.
Posted by: Victoria, Sunday, April 11, 2010, 9:39pm; Reply: 67
I think one of the most delicious things is the liquid from the fermented vegetables.  It's great poured on stir-fry as a seasoning, in place of salt.  (drool)
Posted by: Lola, Sunday, April 11, 2010, 10:50pm; Reply: 68
bingo! :)
Posted by: balletomane, Monday, April 12, 2010, 12:43am; Reply: 69
Quoted from Victoria
I think one of the most delicious things is the liquid from the fermented vegetables.  It's great poured on stir-fry as a seasoning, in place of salt.  (drool)

Great idea, thanks Victoria!

Posted by: Victoria, Monday, April 12, 2010, 1:13am; Reply: 70
I wouldn't cook with it, but dribble it on before eating.  :-)
Posted by: Mickey, Wednesday, April 14, 2010, 10:28pm; Reply: 71
I came here to ask a question about how fermented veggies should taste.

Quoted Text
I like mine on the sour side


I think Drea may have answered my question?.  I made some fermented kale awhile back but it turned out kind of sour tasting, i've been leary of eating it because i thought it might be bad.  Soo if "sour" is good, then how would we know if the fermentation process has gone wrong.  Do they have to be sour to be the most beneficial, i'm not too much into sour things?.

Thanks!
Mickey
Posted by: Victoria, Wednesday, April 14, 2010, 10:45pm; Reply: 72
I haven't made it yet, but I buy a raw locally fermented sauerkraut.  I wouldn't describe  it as sour.  It has a wonderful, complex, slightly salty, LIVE flavor.  Almost bubbly, but not quite.    
Posted by: JJR, Thursday, April 15, 2010, 2:04am; Reply: 73
The stuff I do is pretty tangy.  But sauerkraut might have other flavors in them to change things up a bit.
Posted by: Mickey, Friday, April 16, 2010, 7:45pm; Reply: 74
Soo it sounds like i'll be fine eating my sour kale!.  ;D
Posted by: ruthiegirl, Friday, April 16, 2010, 7:54pm; Reply: 75
Quoted from JJR



It's the non vinegar of vinegars.  Except I don't think it's acidic.  But the flavor is similar.  Kind of.  It similar enough to someone who doesn't eat vinegar any longer.


The bacteria produce lactic acid. The fermenting liquid IS acidic.

If you cook with it, then you get the acidic tang without harmful vinegar, but you don't get the beneficial bacteria you get from consuming it raw. It's best to drizzle on the liquid to foods after cooking.

If your fermenting goes bad, you might see fuzzy mold growing on the top. I've heard that it's OK to scrape off the moldy layer and a bit below it, and then consume the rest, but I've never felt comfy doing that. When something got moldy (usually from too little brine covering the top of the fermenting veggies) I've just tossed it. If it looks like slightly fizzy sourkraut, then it's fine.
Posted by: Victoria, Friday, April 16, 2010, 8:43pm; Reply: 76
Yes, it is slightly acidic, but different from sour, if that makes sense.

My body really doesn't do well with citrus juices which are very acidic in my stomach (I know, they're supposed to have an alkaline result, but not for me.) But the fermented vegetables don't really feel like acid.  Hard to describe.   ::)
Posted by: Rex, Friday, April 16, 2010, 8:51pm; Reply: 77
Today I started a new batch with cabbage, carrots and onion.  I'm loving it so much now...I don't want to be without it.  When I get to the end of a former batch, I start-up another batch.  I read that the sugar in the carrots speeds up the fermentation process...this is the first time I'm using carrots...I'll let you know if it works that way for me.  I may try adding beets next time.  My Bubby used to make sour-borcht in a large wooden barrel, covered with a large piece of cheesecloth, using the fermentation process.  I remember seeing her skin off the foam from the top until it reached the desired sourness.  Then we ate it with boiled potatoes and sour cream...I wouldn't add the potatoes or the sour cream now but remembering how it used to be is fun...great memories of days gone by that will never be again except in my mind.  
Posted by: geminisue, Friday, April 16, 2010, 10:14pm; Reply: 78
Rex- curious what is a Bubby?
Posted by: Rex, Friday, April 16, 2010, 11:15pm; Reply: 79
geminisue..."Bubby" is what I used to call my maternal grandmother.  I never knew what the real word for grandma is I just know that's what we all called her...I never questioned it. It's a jewish thing...I called my grandpa Zada.  Perhaps some other jewish posters can elaborate on this more fully than I can.
Posted by: Victoria, Saturday, April 17, 2010, 12:20am; Reply: 80
That's a sweet name for your grandmother, Rex.

My mother called her mother "Mom", so that's what I called her, too.

So my mother was "Mother" and my grandmother was "Mom".
Posted by: Lola, Saturday, April 17, 2010, 1:36am; Reply: 81
Quoted Text
the fermented vegetables don't really feel like acid.  Hard to describe.


enzyme laden! :)
Posted by: rangtang, Sunday, April 18, 2010, 2:26am; Reply: 82
well i made my first batch oF carrot, onion garlic fermented veges  this week and its started to get some ferementation action happening, its rather exciting and i have been mentioning it to everyone!! SO THANKS EVERYONE for your great ideas and advice !  i am a fermenter converter !!! ;D :) :D  so good to have an alternative to yoghurt which i love but it does not go down well  with myu nonnie status
Posted by: Victoria, Sunday, April 18, 2010, 3:15am; Reply: 83
That's a great thing about cultured vegetables . . live beneficial micro-organisms!  (hehe)
Posted by: JJR, Sunday, April 18, 2010, 4:44am; Reply: 84
And they're also GOOD EATS    ;D
Posted by: Drea, Monday, April 19, 2010, 12:59am; Reply: 85
If you've ever tasted ume plum vinegar (brine), it's very close in the sour/salty flavor that I'm looking for in my cultured/fermented veggies.
Posted by: geminisue, Monday, April 19, 2010, 1:25am; Reply: 86
Thanks Rex, how interesting.
Posted by: Victoria, Monday, April 19, 2010, 1:42am; Reply: 87
Quoted from Drea
If you've ever tasted ume plum vinegar (brine), it's very close in the sour/salty flavor that I'm looking for in my cultured/fermented veggies.


YES!  So true, and that stuff is awesome.  
Posted by: battle dwarf, Monday, April 19, 2010, 4:18am; Reply: 88
dose any one have any sugestons on how i might make my own kombucha? it is a fermented tea and i love it, it is rather exspenive though, so i wondered if i might just make it myself.
Posted by: Lola, Monday, April 19, 2010, 5:25am; Reply: 89
http://www.kombu.de/anleit-e.htm
Posted by: ruthiegirl, Monday, April 19, 2010, 2:30pm; Reply: 90
Quoted from Rex
geminisue..."Bubby" is what I used to call my maternal grandmother.  I never knew what the real word for grandma is I just know that's what we all called her...I never questioned it. It's a jewish thing...I called my grandpa Zada.  Perhaps some other jewish posters can elaborate on this more fully than I can.


Bubbie and Zadie are the Yiddish words for Grandma and  Grandpa. Remember that these words can only be "correctly" spelled with Hebrew letters, so English spellings will vary quite a  bit.

Actually, I'm not even 100% sure that Yiddish is spelled with Hebrew letters, or if it's only  based on Hebrew letters- there might be a few variations (just as English and Spanish use mostly the same alphabet but Spanish includes accent symbols over some letters that English language keyboards can't easily do.) I can read Hebrew (if it includes the vowel symbols, which won't be included in anything meant for native speakers over age 8) but I only know a handful of yiddish words and the proper spellings for none of them.
Posted by: balletomane, Monday, April 19, 2010, 2:38pm; Reply: 91
I was wondering if eating cultured veggies would give you gas.
It seems to make me gassy and also causes some reflux.
But I enjoy a small amount daily... it tastes so good!
Posted by: JJR, Monday, April 19, 2010, 3:31pm; Reply: 92
My guess is you may have yeast and it's stirring it up.  But it could just be messing with you.  I don't know.  
Posted by: Victoria, Monday, April 19, 2010, 5:04pm; Reply: 93
Quoted from battle dwarf
dose any one have any sugestons on how i might make my own kombucha? it is a fermented tea and i love it, it is rather exspenive though, so i wondered if i might just make it myself.


My daughter has made kombucha for years.  The easiest way is to find someone who will give you a bit of the "mother" culture.  It looks like a big blob of pond scum, but in a friendly way.   ;)  Then you can use one of the countless recipes that are on the internet, substituting compliant ingredients.  My daughter made hers with green tea and sweetened it with maple sugar or honey.  I don't know if agave would work, since she never tried it.

I suggest a note on a bulletin board of your local health food store, or post a request on your local Craigslist, or Freecycle.

p.s.  This is if you don't want to buy the stuff.  If you don't mind paying for it, you can go to etsy.com and sometimes find two or three people who are selling the fresh "mother" sealed in plastic.  My daughter did that route once.  But usually she has been able to find someone locally who just gave her a start.
Posted by: Drea, Wednesday, April 21, 2010, 4:02am; Reply: 94
Quoted from battle dwarf
dose any one have any sugestons on how i might make my own kombucha? it is a fermented tea and i love it, it is rather exspenive though, so i wondered if i might just make it myself.


Do a search on YouTube.com. There are a number of detailed instructional videos posted. I thought about trying my hand at making a mother, but really don't have the space for it. Cultured veggies are about it for me.

Posted by: Lola, Wednesday, April 21, 2010, 4:19am; Reply: 95
or ask around in your community.....
someone might have a baby to offer! :)
Posted by: Possum, Wednesday, April 21, 2010, 10:41am; Reply: 96
re kombuchas...I've seen them asked for & offered on freecycle.com (insert your city's name) which is a worldwide site... ;)
I have three babies in the fridge I got given when I thought I could use them... Must pack them up & give them away ;)
Posted by: Ligia, Wednesday, April 21, 2010, 5:11pm; Reply: 97
Here's a link to a blog on how to make kombucha

http://www.foodrenegade.com/how-to-brew-kombucha-double-fermentation-method/
Posted by: kescah, Thursday, April 22, 2010, 2:04pm; Reply: 98
Is there some way to bookmark a thread so I can finish reading this when I get home from my trip?  ;D I don't want to forget.
Posted by: ruthiegirl, Thursday, April 22, 2010, 2:37pm; Reply: 99
I don't beleive there's any way to do that with the forum itself, but you can always use your computer's browser to set this thread as a bookmark, similar to how I have the BTD main forum page bookmarked. Or you can email yourself the link to this thread if you may not be on the same computer later.
Posted by: Lola, Thursday, April 22, 2010, 2:47pm; Reply: 100
click on your name, then click on find latest posts button
Posted by: kescah, Thursday, April 22, 2010, 3:55pm; Reply: 101
Thanks both.
Posted by: maukik, Sunday, October 24, 2010, 10:11pm; Reply: 102
Now that cabbage is in season where I am, I want to try to follow your method for fermenting cabbage, Lola.  I watched a few videos on youtube, but they make it sound much more complicated than you do.  

If I understand it right, you just chop your cabbage (or whatever), place it in a bowl with the salt, cover with cloth, let it sit, stirring each day until you feel it is done. At that time, place it in a container, seal it and put into the refridgerator.  This way appeals to me because it sounds so easy.

After watching the videos I had a couple of questions.  Do you cover the cut cabbage with cabbage leaves or anything else, then weigh it down?  They all seemed to place great emphasis on that. Do you pound your cabbage to extract water before putting it into the bowl? Does it need to be covered in water if I can't crush enough water out of it?

Also, I don't have a stainless steel bowl.  I just put mine into a white glass pyrex bowl.

I just chopped my first head, put it into the bowl, layering a little cabbage with a little salt and covered the bowl with cheese cloth.  Is that it?  



Posted by: Lola, Monday, October 25, 2010, 3:57am; Reply: 103
if you let your processor pulse the cabbage, it lets out quite a bit of liquid

this, plus the added salt and pounding some weight on the whole thing, brings out yet more juices.....enough to cover the batch.....I have never had to add more liquid of any kind to my veggies......
Posted by: ruthiegirl, Monday, October 25, 2010, 5:12pm; Reply: 104
If you do add any liquid to fermenting veggies, it should be salt water (brine) ,not pure water. The point of the salt is to inhibit the growth of unhealthy organisms- the "good germs" grow just fine in salty water while the "bad germs" don't. So pure water at the top of the veggies may result in the top layer getting moldy instead of fermenting nicely.
Posted by: Victoria, Monday, October 25, 2010, 5:23pm; Reply: 105
From what I've heard, the food processing, or pounding, or kneading is an important step in breaking down the cell walls of the vegetables and bringing out the natural juices.  It's not enough to just put the vegetables into a bowl with the salt.
Posted by: ruthiegirl, Monday, October 25, 2010, 5:35pm; Reply: 106
From what I've read, the crushing and pounding helps speed up the process. If the pieces are bigger and just layered with salt, it will probably still work but take longer. It should also be stirred up so the salt is well mixed into the vegetables.
Posted by: 815 (Guest), Monday, October 25, 2010, 6:11pm; Reply: 107
Quoted from Chloe

I stuff my vegetables into an old pickle jar, cover it with the lid and leave it alone for 3 days. Nothing fancy....no special technique.


How does the wild bacteria work if you cover the jar? Is it already in the vegetables? :-/
Posted by: ruthiegirl, Monday, October 25, 2010, 7:19pm; Reply: 108
Some wild bacteria are already on the vegetables. Some are already in the jar. Many get into the veggie mixture while you're working with it, mixing it up, etc.
Posted by: Lola, Monday, October 25, 2010, 8:37pm; Reply: 109
I do not cover my stash of ferments to be, until they re ready, 5 to 6 days max, then I jar them and stick in the fridge......
Posted by: geminisue, Monday, October 25, 2010, 10:05pm; Reply: 110
Thanks Rex and Ruthiegirl- now I understand fully that Bubby means Grandma!  
Posted by: maukik, Monday, October 25, 2010, 10:50pm; Reply: 111
Yesterday I chopped my cabbage small and crushed it, one quarter of the head at a time.  I didn't get much water.  I put it into a bowl with some salt at each quarter of a head.  I put a little more salt on the top.  I just covered the bowl with cheese cloth.  There still was not much water.  I stirred it this morning.  A little more water, not much.  

I had been under the impression that I would have a lot more water and if I didn't, I needed to add some (with salt, of course).  

Would it be too late to add water or is it even necessary?  I just don't want to grow any bad germs.  All of the cabbage has salt but does not have water.  


Posted by: Drea, Monday, October 25, 2010, 10:53pm; Reply: 112
Did you knead it with your clean hands? That's the way to get the water out of the vegetables.
Posted by: maukik, Monday, October 25, 2010, 10:55pm; Reply: 113
No, Drea.  I pounded, crushed it with the end of my ice cream scooper.  I will try kneading it with my hands next time.  Thank you for the tip.
Posted by: Drea, Monday, October 25, 2010, 11:00pm; Reply: 114
There's a good video on youtube.com by Sandor Katz, the guy who wrote Wild Fermentation.

Check it out: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i77hU3zR-fQ
Posted by: Lola, Tuesday, October 26, 2010, 2:47am; Reply: 115
another
http://www.naturalnews.com/027443_vegetables_health_food.html
Posted by: yaeli, Wednesday, November 3, 2010, 4:33am; Reply: 116
A week ago I made the first batch of cultured beetroots - the first time in my life I prepared any cultured vegetable, and I love it. I am very content, don't even blush... I read this thread, especially Lola's instructions, watched Mr. Sandor Katz' video, and followed: sliced the beets, salted lightly, squeezed and mixed, put in a ceramic jar, put a sealed full raki bottle (what do I keep it for, topically use as first aid against tummy aches mixed with olive oil) over it as a pound, covered with a kitchen cotton towel, later with a sheet of baking paper and left to decorate the counter. It turned out excellent. All my life beetroot has been a problem for me. My late mother, who was a marvelous cook, yet strong-headed, used to make a beetroot borscht which I simply detested. Other possibilities: salads and soups, I didn't  care for. This time, I thought, I've found my personal solution - proved true! I truly enjoy it this way.  :D  I love pickles, and for almost 5 years now I don't touch them. The homemade way makes a tremendous difference. I nibble a few slices each morning - 'my' creation, yay!  :) Love it. (drool) (woot)
Posted by: Lola, Wednesday, November 3, 2010, 5:41am; Reply: 117
;)
Posted by: Victoria, Wednesday, November 3, 2010, 3:29pm; Reply: 118
Yaeli!  (clap)
Posted by: 815 (Guest), Tuesday, August 9, 2011, 2:13pm; Reply: 119
Thanks to Chloe's tips I finally made a jar of veggies last night. I hope it comes out.. :( I hope they're edible. Any tips is appreciated. I used a glass jar but I couldn't get much brine out of it after stuffing it in the jar and I added some water but..it still looked like it wasn't very covered.
Posted by: Henriette Bsec, Tuesday, August 9, 2011, 2:35pm; Reply: 120
If veggies isn´t very juicy - I sometimes add some water - that works well.
What kind of veggies did you use ?
Posted by: JJR, Tuesday, August 9, 2011, 4:36pm; Reply: 121
It's OK to add water.  

Way to go!!!  I bet you'll love them.  Take it slow when you eat them. Don't just gobble tons of them up.  You may start to detox very heavily and feel awful.  At least, that's how it is for me.

What did you make?
Posted by: 815 (Guest), Tuesday, August 9, 2011, 6:19pm; Reply: 122
I took broccoli slaw and used that. It is broccoli, carrots and a couple of shreds of cabbage.
But it was in the bag so it might have been dry to start with. Next time I'll chop fresh. I was in a hurry. Oh I'm glad it's ok to add water.   :)
Posted by: Patty H, Tuesday, August 9, 2011, 7:53pm; Reply: 123
What are cultured veggies  ??)
Posted by: Drea, Tuesday, August 9, 2011, 8:05pm; Reply: 124
I just made another batch (first time this year), thanks to your inspiration, Mayflowers :D. This version has thinly sliced turnips, ginger root, and garlic cloves, plus shredded carrots, and salt. My mixture didn't need any water; that came from the veggies themselves...Mayflowers, did you "massage" the slaw with salt before stuffing into the jar?

Cultured, or fermented, veggies are vegetables that are allowed to sit out at room temperature once they are covered in salt water. Sandor Katz explains it nicely HERE.
Posted by: grey rabbit, Tuesday, August 9, 2011, 9:03pm; Reply: 125
You're going for some probiotics Patty, cultured veggies are producing something similar to yogurt. MF yogurt is a diamond for me so I use a little yogurt whey as added liquid, I know for some of you yogurt is an avoid so that doesn't work. I made a half gallon a while back, was a little hesitant about the whole process but they turned out fine and I usually have at least a cup a day - I used carrots and a little broccoli.
Posted by: Drea, Tuesday, August 9, 2011, 9:20pm; Reply: 126
I've tried using whey as a starter, but found that I liked the flavor of the salt-only versions better. Btw, yogurt is a diamond for me, too.
Posted by: bluejay, Tuesday, August 9, 2011, 9:55pm; Reply: 127
Quoted from Drea
Cultured, or fermented, veggies are vegetables that are allowed to sit out at room temperature once they are covered in salt water. Sandor Katz explains it nicely HERE.

Thanks for the link Drea.  I have been wanted to give it a try, but not daring enough without step by step instruction. Hopefully I'll have some time this weekend to test it out.

Posted by: Pixu, Tuesday, August 9, 2011, 10:37pm; Reply: 128
I just made some beet kvass (thanks Ruthie  :K) ) and a small jar of cultured beet as well.. I can't wait to have some in my salad  :P  ;D
Posted by: Drea, Tuesday, August 9, 2011, 11:05pm; Reply: 129
I'm so impatient about waiting for my turnips to finish fermenting; I want them now! tee hee :D
Posted by: Patty H, Tuesday, August 9, 2011, 11:14pm; Reply: 130
Are cultured veggies good for O's?  I am assuming yes if Ruthie and Pixu are making/eating them?

They are rich in probiotics ??)
Posted by: Drea, Tuesday, August 9, 2011, 11:21pm; Reply: 131
Easy-to-Make Fermented Vegetables Boost Immunity and Improve Health

Learn more: http://www.naturalnews.com/027443_vegetables_food_health.html#ixzz1UZp4iY9W

"Healthy bacterial cultures such as Lactobacillus are present in cultured vegetables. The more healthy microflora one has the more the body`s receptors are blocked when exposed to dangerous bacteria and viruses. Fermented vegetables are high in antioxidants and benefit health in many ways, including:

Preserving nutrients and breaking them down into more easily digestible forms
Creating new cultures, which then create B vitamins such as folic acid, riboflavin, niacin, thiamin and biotin
Removing toxins from food: all grains contain phytic acid which blocks absorption of zinc, calcium, iron and magnesium. Soaking and fermenting grains neutralizes the phytic acid.
Promoting digestive health by flooding the intestines with beneficial microflora

Sandor Ellix Katz, author of Wild Fermentation credits fermented foods as being key to his superb health and energy, despite living with AIDS for many years. Many healing diets including macrobiotics and Ann Wigmore`s raw food and wheatgrass diet use fermented foods as a way to regain health. Macrobiotics uses miso - a fermented soybean paste - as well as tempeh and tamari, two other cultured soy products. Ann Wigmore`s diet uses rejuvelac, a beverage made from fermented sprouted grains.

Beneficial bacteria are readily available on vegetables and in the air, so no starter culture is necessary. Simply provide the right environment with:

Unrefined sea salt, which inhibits unwanted bacteria
Liquid, which prevents the vegetables from molding.

Cabbage is often used as the base because it is loaded with the beneficial bacteria required. Other vegetables, such as carrots, scallions, and broccoli, can also be added."
Posted by: TJ, Wednesday, August 10, 2011, 3:37am; Reply: 132
Quoted from 815
Any tips is appreciated.
I open up a capsule of probiotics and mix into the veggies.  You can just use the "wild" bacteria that are in the air, but adding a probiotic speeds up the process and gives you more control over which organisms are predominant.  Also, use plenty of salt, preferably canning salt.  That will help draw water out for the brine.
Posted by: Drea, Wednesday, August 10, 2011, 3:39am; Reply: 133
TJ, what a great idea! I hadn't thought of adding a Polyflora to the mix. Next time!
Posted by: Patty H, Wednesday, August 10, 2011, 1:47pm; Reply: 134
This sounds really great, except I am still somewhat confused.  Cabbage is a black dot for me but sauerkraut is an avoid, as is pickle brine, so I assumed that anything in brine would be an avoid  ??)

Would love to hear some O's comment on this.
Posted by: Drea, Wednesday, August 10, 2011, 2:05pm; Reply: 135
Not an O but...I suppose the question is why is brine an avoid? Brine is just salted water, but perhaps the issue is something I'm just not seeing?
Posted by: Amazone I., Wednesday, August 10, 2011, 2:40pm; Reply: 136
yup for me the same... no s-kraut or similarities for me either (naughty)(shrug)(hand)
Posted by: ruthiegirl, Wednesday, August 10, 2011, 2:41pm; Reply: 137
Hmmm Patty. In my SWAMI, cabbage and sourkraut have always had the same rating. Pickles have always been an avoid, but so have cucumbers. Dr D has yet to evaluate beet kvass or carrot/ginger kraut (or any other lacto-fermented veggies other than the readily available pickled cucumbers and sourkraut) so I don't know how they'd work for you. There might be something else happening in the fermenting process that's bad for you personally, even though the probiotic part is good for everybody and the "whole product" has always worked well for me.

Does SWAMI allow you to have ume plum vinegar? That's the liquid from lacto-fermented ume plums, and since it's evaluated on SWAMI, that might be a way to gauge whether or not the lacto-fermentation itself is a problem for you.

I do know from personal experience (that predates my discovery of BTD) that I feel good when I get enough probiotic foods in my diet, and I don't feel as good when I neglect them. Beet kvass is usually my probiotic of choice, because it ferments in only 2 days and is easier to make than kraut (carrot or cabbage.) I also find it easier to have half a cup of kvass in the morning, rather than trying to remember to include fermented veggies with a meal.

You basically have two choices. You can skip fermented veggies, and get your probiotics from supplements, if you're not comfortable with the experiment. Or you can give it a try and see how beet kvass and/or other fermented veggies make you feel.
Posted by: Chloe, Wednesday, August 10, 2011, 3:10pm; Reply: 138
Ruthie, can I add a Polyflora A to beet kvass?  Would there be any benefits?
Posted by: ruthiegirl, Wednesday, August 10, 2011, 3:28pm; Reply: 139
I usually innoculate beet kvass with a teaspoon or so of kvass from the previous batch (the first batch after not making it for a while needs a bit longer to ferment, maybe 3 days instead of 2.) I can't see any harm to adding a polyflora A to the kvass, and it would lead to the kvass being high in the probiotics Dr D decided were good for As, plus it should speed up the fermentation a  bit (as much as using a teaspoon of the last batch does.)

The original instructions for kvass (from Sally Fallon, online) called for whey to innoculate the first batch, which I never did, because I turned to beet kvass as a non-dairy source of probiotics.
Posted by: deblynn3, Wednesday, August 10, 2011, 3:43pm; Reply: 140
I gave credit to GCG for a lemon vinegar recipe the other day, my bad after reading my note it was geminisue. I can't find that thread had to do something about salad dressings. anyway.....


She hadn't tired it and there is no mention of salt. The juice of the lemon is just added to water and placed in the cupboard for 2 weeks. So would it still be cultured? Or does a lemon have to much acid to culture? Has anyone tried this.
Posted by: 815 (Guest), Wednesday, August 10, 2011, 5:23pm; Reply: 141
Quoted from Drea
I just made another batch (first time this year), thanks to your inspiration, Mayflowers :D. This version has thinly sliced turnips, ginger root, and garlic cloves, plus shredded carrots, and salt. My mixture didn't need any water; that came from the veggies themselves...Mayflowers, did you "massage" the slaw with salt before stuffing into the jar?.


Thanks for the recipe..  :) I'll try turnips.  Yes, I squeezed and rubbed for about 5 mins. I got some water out of them but not much..  :(  Maybe because it was precut in the bag ??
Posted by: 815 (Guest), Wednesday, August 10, 2011, 5:25pm; Reply: 142
Quoted from ruthiegirl
instead of 2.) I can't see any harm to adding a polyflora A to the kvass, obiotics.

Thanks for the tip, I'm going to try that in the next batch of vegies.. :)

Posted by: JJR, Wednesday, August 10, 2011, 5:25pm; Reply: 143
Quoted from TJ
I open up a capsule of probiotics and mix into the veggies.  You can just use the "wild" bacteria that are in the air, but adding a probiotic speeds up the process and gives you more control over which organisms are predominant.  Also, use plenty of salt, preferably canning salt.  That will help draw water out for the brine.


I'm not really sure if that's completely how it works.  I think the bacteria actually come from the vegetable itself. (if you don't use a starter of some sort)  Unless you're not putting it in an airtight jar.  I use the canning jars with the rubbler lids.  I think the lactic acid comes from the breakdown of the vegetable.  I think.  Now if you're talking sourdough, that may be the case.  
Posted by: 815 (Guest), Wednesday, August 10, 2011, 5:32pm; Reply: 144
Some of the members here who can have yogurt, use their Polyflora to make it. I haven't done that yet.. that's next for me too.  :)
Posted by: 815 (Guest), Wednesday, August 10, 2011, 6:16pm; Reply: 145
Quoted from Drea
I'm so impatient about waiting for my turnips to finish fermenting; I want them now! tee hee :D


I'm afraid to try it..  :X mine has been on the kitchen counter for a day and a 1/2 now. How long do you keep it out Drea?  Chloe said 3 days.
Posted by: Chloe, Wednesday, August 10, 2011, 7:10pm; Reply: 146
Quoted from 815


I'm afraid to try it..  :X mine has been on the kitchen counter for a day and a 1/2 now. How long do you keep it out Drea?  Chloe said 3 days.


You gotta remember that a jar sitting 3 days on my kitchen counter is a different temperature from 3 days in Drea's kitchen.  

My beet kvass is now on it's third day......I just added one Polyflora.  Going to taste it later....

OK....just tasted it now...still kind of salty.  Not ready Ruthie, right?
Posted by: Drea, Wednesday, August 10, 2011, 9:14pm; Reply: 147
Quoted from 815


I'm afraid to try it..  :X mine has been on the kitchen counter for a day and a 1/2 now. How long do you keep it out Drea?  Chloe said 3 days.


It's warm here, so I usually leave it out between 1-3 days.I tasted the turnips last evening, but they weren't done yet.
Posted by: Drea, Wednesday, August 10, 2011, 9:15pm; Reply: 148
I like my fermented veggies on the sour side, so I usually leave them to ferment (culture) longer.
Posted by: Mickey, Wednesday, August 10, 2011, 11:40pm; Reply: 149
Ruthie,

Is beet kvass allowed on your swami?.  For me it's a black dot avoid.  Are you saying that beet kvass would be considered differently than beets as far as its rating?.  I would love to make beet kvass again, i made it once and stopped because it's a black dot avoid for me.  I think i may have made it when i thought i was an explorer?.  It was so easy to make, i would love to beable to use it as a primary fermented vegetable.

BTW, for any fermenters out there.  I use a potato masher (i don't use it to mash potatoe's) to mash spinach when i ferment it, it really helps get alot of juice out of it for the fermentation process.!  ;)
Posted by: Drea, Wednesday, August 10, 2011, 11:41pm; Reply: 150
Fermented spinach? I've not thought about fermenting leafy greens. Great suggestion!
Posted by: ruthiegirl, Wednesday, August 10, 2011, 11:44pm; Reply: 151
Beet kvass isn't listed on my SWAMI at all. Beets and beet juice are both beneficials right now, but I was consuming beet kvass even when SWAMI called them both neutral.

I would reccomend fermenting neutral or beneficial veggies, and avoiding fermented black dots.
Posted by: grey rabbit, Thursday, August 11, 2011, 12:06am; Reply: 152
Quoted from JJR


I'm not really sure if that's completely how it works.  I think the bacteria actually come from the vegetable itself. (if you don't use a starter of some sort)  Unless you're not putting it in an airtight jar.  I use the canning jars with the rubbler lids.  I think the lactic acid comes from the breakdown of the vegetable.  I think.  Now if you're talking sourdough, that may be the case.  


With sourdough the bacteria also come from the wheat itself, not the air.
Posted by: TJ, Thursday, August 11, 2011, 12:26am; Reply: 153
I really like fermented jicama.  I shred it up with carrots.  I started a batch on Sunday, and it should be ready by Friday.

Ruthie, isn't kvass a yeast ferment?  Or do you made yours differently?
Posted by: JJR, Thursday, August 11, 2011, 3:03am; Reply: 154
Quoted from grey rabbit


With sourdough the bacteria also come from the wheat itself, not the air.


Aaah.  There you go.  I'm not sure where the culture from the air theory came from and if it's true or not.  I had been taught it's from the food itself also.  If I remember correctly.  And I do believe it was from the Nourishing Traditions book.  I'd have to go back and find the spot.  Or maybe it was Donna Gates' book.  Hmmm...
Posted by: passionprincess, Thursday, August 11, 2011, 3:26am; Reply: 155
The salt causes the lacto-fermentation in veggies. However, if you oversalt the veggies, the fermentation will slow down.

I wash my cabbage in water after chopping it into bite size pieces and drain the water. Then, I salt the cabbage in bowl, cover it, and let it sit for at least a good 1-3 hours. I found that salting it before I go to bed is the easiest. When you wake up and check the cabbage, you will start to smell some of the fermentation.

I rinse the salt off the cabbage once and add my kimchee spices. I use whey from my milk kefir instead of adding more water to the pepper paste.

I also use sweet apple cider (not the vinegar but the unpasteurized drink which has loads of probiotics) in place of Asian pear (used for sugar to feed the lacto-fermentation and to add a crisp sweetness).

My kimchee is a probiotic variation I came up with. So far, the fermentation is really well done, if I can say so myself, and the flavor is not much different from traditional kimchee. I just make mine less spicy and bit sweeter.

I figured that the kefir whey and sweet apple cider were introducing enough new strains of probiotics on top of the lacto-fermentation so I did not open up a probiotic capsule.
Posted by: passionprincess, Thursday, August 11, 2011, 3:31am; Reply: 156
On sourdough Fermentation

http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/10375/lactic-acid-fermentation-sourdough

The fermentation happens in two ways - anaerobic and aerobic. While the fermentation happens because of the component in the grain (bacteria strains), oxygen is needed because some strains use the oxygen.

I just use a coffee filter top for my starter dough so it could breathe. I had to stick it in the fridge when I had fruit flies. The flies are gone so the dough will come back out.  ;D
Posted by: 815 (Guest), Thursday, August 11, 2011, 2:54pm; Reply: 157
I tasted it this morning. It tastes like saurkraut!  Does that mean it's done? I need the experts.. :-/
Posted by: Drea, Thursday, August 11, 2011, 3:28pm; Reply: 158
Yes, I think it's done; but more importantly, do you like the taste? ;D
Posted by: 815 (Guest), Thursday, August 11, 2011, 3:56pm; Reply: 159
eh..I'm not a saurkraut lover.  But It's good for me. I'll try different vegies. I have jimica as a neutral, I can use that.  I can't use any cabbage.  :( It's all an avoid. Even saurkraut..  I can use bok choy. I wonder how that tastes?
Posted by: 815 (Guest), Thursday, August 11, 2011, 3:59pm; Reply: 160
Quoted from Drea
Yes, I think it's done; but more importantly, do you like the taste? ;D


How do you eat it Drea?
Posted by: JJR, Thursday, August 11, 2011, 5:02pm; Reply: 161
Just eat it.  Or put it on some meat.  Or whatever.  It's probably a really good idea to eat it as a relish with meat, because it will help you digest your food.  But as I said, take it slow.  It may detox you.  That may not be a problem for you, but I get lots of pain and inflammation from detoxing.

It helps your adrenals too.  It does lots of good stuff.
Posted by: 815 (Guest), Thursday, August 11, 2011, 7:56pm; Reply: 162
I had some on my veggie burger for lunch ... surprisingly tasty!  Broccolikraut.  :)   I don't think  I want it any more sour so I put it in the refrigerator. How long does it last in the fridge?
Thanks JJR. I'm going to try it on fish.  I can have veal once a week on my SWAMI as well so that might work well. It felt good in my stomach!  ;D No digestion problems!   Does it taste very different if you add a cap of Polyflora to it?  :-/
Posted by: passionprincess, Thursday, August 11, 2011, 8:02pm; Reply: 163
I just mix my cultured veggies (esp. kimchee) with brown rice and add meat or sardines to it. Korean always have kimchee placed on their rice during their meals. they would wrap it in sushi nori (seaweed), too. Koreans usually roast the seaweed in sesame oil with salt. I prefer the seaweed raw and now know why - sesame oil is an avoid.

You can try mixing your grains/rice with cultured veggies and eating it.
Posted by: Drea, Thursday, August 11, 2011, 8:52pm; Reply: 164
Quoted from 815


How do you eat it Drea?


Right out of the jar! LOL



I just got back from the organic market with some fresh carrots and light red beets. I'm going to make another batch of cultured veggies, once I've had a moment to unwind from the trip into Santa Fe. :D

Thank you Mayflowers for starting this thread; you've got me back into culturing my veggies!
Posted by: Chloe, Thursday, August 11, 2011, 9:04pm; Reply: 165
I'll let you know how this turns out...but today, this is what went into my jars for fermentation.

shredded cucumbers (the kirby variety...farm fresh ones), garlic, ginger, radishes, and one shredded
apple.  I didn't have any more carrots so I thought the apple might add the right amount of sweetness.
WOW, it produced tons of liquid....and I added two Polyflora As because this filled two jars...I'm
going to be eating this until I explode....but I love the idea of just experimenting with all sorts of
vegetables until I find a blend that I love.  Oh, I added a few T of chopped cilantro to this.  It's either
going to taste great....or disgusting.  :)
Posted by: Chloe, Thursday, August 11, 2011, 9:07pm; Reply: 166
Quoted from 815
I had some on my veggie burger for lunch ... surprisingly tasty!  Broccolikraut.  :)   I don't think  I want it any more sour so I put it in the refrigerator. How long does it last in the fridge?
Thanks JJR. I'm going to try it on fish.  I can have veal once a week on my SWAMI as well so that might work well. It felt good in my stomach!  ;D No digestion problems!   Does it taste very different if you add a cap of Polyflora to it?  :-/


Polyflora didn't change the taste of my last batch.

It lasts in the refrigerator quite awhile because it's already fermented....Probably if it starts
looking funky and it's been many weeks, start over with a new batch....but if you're eating some every day, you might just eat it up quickly.  What I do is use smaller jars....make a smaller
batch.  I have quart jars but it takes a lot to fill them.  I have some small saved mayo jars that
are probably a pint.  The perfect size for how fast I eat up one jar.

Posted by: Drea, Thursday, August 11, 2011, 9:09pm; Reply: 167
You've given me some ideas, Chloe! Did you shred all the veggies or slice some? I like different textures, so I often julienne some, shred some, and slice some in the same batch...

I may add carrot to the first batch of beets, and add apple to the second. I almost always add ginger root because I love it so much!
Posted by: passionprincess, Thursday, August 11, 2011, 9:14pm; Reply: 168
When kimchee gets too fermented (tangy and soft), Koreans make soup out of it. Stir fried aged kimchee over eggs taste quite good. You might want to do that if your cultured veggies ever get too tangy. You lose some of the probiotic qualities since you are heating up the veggies but fermented fried veggies taste really good with cheese. An omelet would be really good. ;D
Posted by: Drea, Thursday, August 11, 2011, 10:05pm; Reply: 169
I just made another batch of cultured veggies and didn't do what I said I was going to...instead, I sliced, julienned, and shredded three red/white beets, sliced and shredded a large ginger root, and added two capsules of Polyflora A along with sea salt. The beets were sweet enough without adding carrots or apples.

I also have a jicama, but I'll wait to make that batch because I want to stagger the finished product.

TJ, if you read this, how do you prepare (slice, shred, etc) your jicama ferment?
Posted by: TJ, Friday, August 12, 2011, 12:40am; Reply: 170
Quoted from passionprincess
I rinse the salt off the cabbage once and add my kimchee spices.
Do you have a recipe?  Do you use napa cabbage or regular?

Quoted from 815
How long does it last in the fridge?
My first batch lasted over a month in the fridge, with no indication that it was going bad when I ate the last bit.  It could get a little mold growing on top but you can skim that off.  Napa cabbage might be ok for you.  It's unlisted on my SWAMI.

Quoted from Drea
TJ, if you read this, how do you prepare (slice, shred, etc) your jicama ferment?
I shredded mine in the food processor.  The batch I made that also had some cabbage in it was actually better than this last one with just jicama and carrot.  I do have to say, cabbage smells very strong when it first starts fermenting!
Posted by: passionprincess, Friday, August 12, 2011, 12:51am; Reply: 171
TJ

I posted my kimchee recipe somewhere on this site and can't find it.

Here is a copy I sent to a friend of mine:

1 head of Savoy Cabbage
1/4 cup Sea Salt
1 head of garlic
1 small vidalia (sweet onion)
1/4 cup pepper powder
1/4 cup sweet apple cider (can be found at farmer's market; I used unpasteurized, organic cider)
1/4 cup of brown rice starter flour

How to make brown rice starter flour (should be done about 1-2 days in advance; you can use this starter flour to make sourdough, pancakes, etc.):
mix 1 cup of brown rice and 1 cup of kefir whey (you can use plain kefir if you cannot get the whey) and let it sit at room temperature.
Storing this in a mason jar with a coffee filter "lid" (use a rubberband to hold the lid in place) is the best;
The mixture NEEDS to BREATHE!
"feed" the mixture by adding 2-3 tablespoons of brown rice flour ever 8 hours
The mixture should start bubbling.

Once the mixture starts bubbling, it is ready for use. You can continue to age (ferment) the mixture after you have used a portion for the kimchee. The mixture will continue to grow. If you do not want the mixture to grow, keep the mixture in the refrigerator.

Prepare the Cabbage:
Cut and wash the cabbage, leave a bit of water in the bowl and salt the cabbage
Let the cabbage sit for at least an hour and move the cabbage around so all parts are exposed to the salt and water mixture (brine).

Let the cabbage brine mix sit for a few hours. I just let mine sit overnight.

Prepare the kimchee sauce:
Take the brown rice starter, sweet apple cider, onion, garlic, and pepper powder and blend in the food processor; puree or liquify the entire mixture. Make sure the garlic and onion are pretty much liquid. (Koreans do not puree the mixture and use chopped garlic and onions but I prefer to make a liquid sauce since it is easier to mix; I do not like fresh ginger so I intentionally left it out).

Mix the "sauce" into the cabbage and put into a kimchee jar. Although the kimchee can be eaten fresh, the flavors become more complex as it ages. Also, the probiotic content increases with the fermentation process.

**I keep a jar of starter flour so I don't have to make one.**
Posted by: passionprincess, Friday, August 12, 2011, 1:02am; Reply: 172
Korean White Kimchee - Does not use pepper paste

**This kimchee broth in this recipe creates a kvass like clear, slightly salty, tangy kvass like base. Koreans will often make rice noodles and pour the kimchee plus broth over the noodle for a refreshing summer dish, usually with barbeque since the crisp broth will tone the greasiness of the meat. Also, I have seen people drink the kimchee broth as a hangover drink. ;D**

from Korea Times by Kim, Yong Ja

White Cabbage with Garlic and Ginger

This is a rare non-spicy kimchi. It should be served cold to enjoy its refreshing flavor.

INGREDIENTS (serves 4)

1 CHINESE CABBAGE (2¾ lbs/1.25 kg)

SEA SALT or KOSHER SALT

2 GARLIC CLOVES, crushed fine

1"/2.5 cm GINGER, cut into fine strips

3 SCALLIONS, cut diagonally

1 heaping tablespoon PINE NUTS optional

small amount SILGOCHU (chili thread) used mainly for decoration, has very little flavor

1 cup WATER

⅓ teaspoon SALT to add at the end on top

1. Trim the cabbage and wash outer leaves. Slice the middle of the bottom about 4"/10 cm deep. Put your thumbs in the slit and pull it apart to divide it into two. Then divide each half into two parts.

2. Sprinkle 1 tablespoon salt over the stem area. Soak all cabbage leaves in salted water (1 tablespoon kosher salt for 1 cup water ratio) for about 4-5 hours. Salt has many different strengths, use your own judgment as to the amount of salt to use in wilting the cabbage. When the leaves are wilted, press gently to squeeze out the excess water.

3. While the cabbage is wilting, prepare garlic, ginger and scallion and mix together.

4. Cut off the two large pieces of the cabbage stems and set aside. Sprinkle the scallion mixture, pine nuts and silgochu (chili thread) in between the cabbage leaves.

5. Put them in the jar. Press down to reduce any air pocket. Add a cup of water to the bowl where you mixed the garlic and scallion. Season with 1 tablespoon salt. Pour down the side of the jar to soak ¾ of the kimchi.

6. Cover the top with the large pieces of cabbage that you had set aside. Sprinkle salt on top. Close the jar and leave at room temperature for 1½ days to ripen. Then store in the refrigerator.

7. When serving, set aside the top layer, pull out a cabbage piece and cut into bite sizes. Always put the top layer back before you close the lid.
Posted by: Drea, Friday, August 12, 2011, 1:29am; Reply: 173
My turnip kimchee is done! It could stand another day, but is good just as it is, too! That took 2 days, but it's been very hot here.
Posted by: Chloe, Friday, August 12, 2011, 1:44am; Reply: 174
Quoted from Drea
You've given me some ideas, Chloe! Did you shred all the veggies or slice some? I like different textures, so I often julienne some, shred some, and slice some in the same batch...

I may add carrot to the first batch of beets, and add apple to the second. I almost always add ginger root because I love it so much!


I shredded the cucumbers, shredded the radishes, smashed the garlic with a mallet and chopped
it...I cut the apple in thin slices and chopped the cilantro. I cut the ginger into little pieces.  Basically
it looks like a big mush in the jar...
Posted by: passionprincess, Friday, August 12, 2011, 1:46am; Reply: 175
You are awesome, Drea!

You can eat kimchee right after you pour the pepper and sauce. Koreans call that "fresh" kimchee. It is less tangy since it is not as fermented. I prefer my kimchee to be "aged" (or sour, as Koreans call it) because I never liked the taste of raw cabbage - both napa and savoy. I think it comes from my mom making us drink cabbage juice! YUCK! She would juice cabbages without anything else and make us drink it as children. We would run whenever we heard the juicer being turned on in the morning.

I am tempted to use jicama to make the white kimchee without pepper powder.

Quoted from Drea
My turnip kimchee is done! It could stand another day, but is good just as it is, too! That took 2 days, but it's been very hot here.


Posted by: Chloe, Friday, August 12, 2011, 1:46am; Reply: 176
Quoted from 815
eh..I'm not a saurkraut lover.



I am such a sauerkraut lover that I'd gladly call it dessert. :)

Posted by: passionprincess, Friday, August 12, 2011, 1:48am; Reply: 177
OMG - so am I! I would just put some in a cereal bowl and eat it like salad. I do the same with kimchee these days b/c of probiotics so I do not make it spicy.

I used to eat sauerkraut with everything!

Quoted from Chloe



I am such a sauerkraut lover that I'd gladly call it dessert. :)



Posted by: Drea, Friday, August 12, 2011, 1:53am; Reply: 178
I love sauerkraut and really miss it, but I have to say this turnip kimchee is a close second! :D
Posted by: Drea, Friday, August 12, 2011, 1:57am; Reply: 179
Holy Moley! I just looked at my "shopping card" for my swami (I laminated it and keep a copy on my desk), and I just noticed that cabbage is no longer listed as an avoid! So I looked it up on the .pdf version on the desktop and lo and behold...it's a neutral. (woot)

Sauerkraut is still listed as an avoid, but I'm thinking that if I ferment my own cabbage, it's still a neutral! I'm doing the happy dance!
Posted by: passionprincess, Friday, August 12, 2011, 2:06am; Reply: 180
Well, most commercial sauekraut is made from vinegar and is not fermented. Maybe that is why it is an avoid. If you can have fermented foods, then you should try it.
Posted by: JJR, Friday, August 12, 2011, 3:24am; Reply: 181
I've been told after 6 months, the cultures start to die.  So.....

I've had some for a pretty good amount of time in my fridge and they still taste pretty well.  Couple of months.  There's been times though that after 2 months I would toss because it would just get a real acidic flavor and feel.  One that didn't sit right with me.  However, I think some of these cultured foods sit for a long long long time before going bad.  

I was reading a book about snipers in Vietnam and I guess the North Vietnamese would bury their Kimchee or what not in a jar in the ground and leave them there for long periods of time before eating them.  It was a mixture of rice and stuff though, so I don't know what they called it exactly.  And our guys would eat them sometimes if they were real hungry.  One guy said he hated the way they tasted but it gave him a lot of energy.
Posted by: 815 (Guest), Friday, August 12, 2011, 1:03pm; Reply: 182
What a great thread! Thank you all for all the history and tips!  :K)
I might have been able to keep mine out one more day..maybe next time. I had it on my not dog last night with mustard. It was really good! Much better than the garbage you buy with vinegar. You can feel and taste the love and life force when you make it yourself! My mother used to eat cabbage saukraut out of a can and thought it was good for her..::)

IDK... TJ, I only have bok choy. Cabbage and saurkraut are an avoid. I hope that doesn't also mean fermenting other vegetables. :-/  I need my SWAMI updated. I got it from Dr. D when he first introduced the program. There's been a lot of foods added since then. Nappa Cabbage isn't listed. Just "Cabbage"  I wonder if that includes Nappa as well? Kinda like my cream question.
Thanks for the expiration range. I'll try to use it up in 2 months.
I like Chloe's recipe but radishes are a black dot.
Posted by: Drea, Friday, August 12, 2011, 1:19pm; Reply: 183
Mayflowers, I suspect that any root vegetable would ferment nicely; there are so many to choose from! Select some from your beneficial list and experiment! I love turnips in general, and so also love fermented turnips, ginger root, and garlic! ;D
Posted by: 815 (Guest), Friday, August 12, 2011, 2:35pm; Reply: 184
My Beneficial roots are:
carrots
daikon radish
ginger\
leeks
onion
rutabaga
scallion
skunk cabbage (no way)
and turnips that's it
Neutrals are:
Beets
celeriac
chicory root ?
jicama
parsnips
radicchio  ?
shallotts
taro
Posted by: Drea, Friday, August 12, 2011, 2:47pm; Reply: 185
daikon radish, carrots, ginger would make a great combination. Daikon radish is very mild.

I just made beet and ginger. The possibilities are endless! I'm not sure about onion, but I do have experience with green onions/scallions. I prefer the firmer vegetables for culturing. I don't care for soggy, unless it's sauerkraut ;D.
Posted by: ruthiegirl, Friday, August 12, 2011, 3:18pm; Reply: 186
OK, I just skimmed this thread and realized I never actually posted the beet kvass recipe anywhere on here.

I start with 2 small or 1 medium beet. If it's very fresh, I won't peel it, but if it's older and the edges look icky, I'll peel part of all of it. Then I chop the beets into about half inch cubes.  I put these into a quart jar, and it usually fills up the jar about halfway.

I fill the jar with filtered water and add about a teaspoon of salt. I use kosher salt for ferments. I add a little bit of the last batch of kvass, if available. This is where Sally Fallon suggests adding whey if you don't have an old batch. I suppose the contents of a polyflora capsule would work as well. Then I put the lid on the jar and shake it up to make sure the salt is properly distributed.

I put this on a warm-ish spot on my counter for 2-3 days, gently shaking the jar once a day. Generally, it needs 3 days if I didn't use any starter and 2 days if I did.

I typically transfer most of the kvass into another, smaller jar in my fridge to make pouring easier. Then the half-full jar stays in the fridge until it's low enough that I need to make more. I can re-use the beets for 2 or 3 batches (more if there are more beets in the jar and/or if I leave more liquid in for the next batch.) When I'm not using fresh beets, I fill the jar to the top with filtered water and add salt, then cover and shake. I've made more when I still had half a jar of kvass left, and that batch only took a day- but usually I use up more of the kvass before starting a new batch.
Posted by: 815 (Guest), Friday, August 12, 2011, 3:35pm; Reply: 187
Thanks. One thing I noticed is that the cultured veggies really assist my digestion..very much. I think I'll keep making them! Next time I used polyflora and see how that works.
Posted by: passionprincess, Friday, August 12, 2011, 6:56pm; Reply: 188
Just for the record - kimchee is a strictly Korean dish. Pretty much all cultures have their own version of fermented foods but if you use the term kimchee in front of a Korean while referring to fermented veggies from a different country, they will get very upset! I do not know the term for Vietnamese fermented veggies.

Koreans used clay pots that they bury in the ground in their kimchee making for centuries. So the Vietnamese probably did the same although their weather is more tropical than Korea. I have seen the American version of a fermenting pot, too... so I am assuming most cultures have some form of it.

There is a specialty kimchee called super-aged kimchee which I believe is over a year old. I have never tasted it but people describe it as being a super sour pickle, almost. They say it is very high in nutrients. I am not sure about the probiotics since the probiotics need to be fed and if everything is digested by the healthy creatures, they might end up dying after a while...


Quoted from JJR
I've been told after 6 months, the cultures start to die.  So.....

I've had some for a pretty good amount of time in my fridge and they still taste pretty well.  Couple of months.  There's been times though that after 2 months I would toss because it would just get a real acidic flavor and feel.  One that didn't sit right with me.  However, I think some of these cultured foods sit for a long long long time before going bad.  

I was reading a book about snipers in Vietnam and I guess the North Vietnamese would bury their Kimchee or what not in a jar in the ground and leave them there for long periods of time before eating them.  It was a mixture of rice and stuff though, so I don't know what they called it exactly.  And our guys would eat them sometimes if they were real hungry.  One guy said he hated the way they tasted but it gave him a lot of energy.


Posted by: passionprincess, Friday, August 12, 2011, 6:59pm; Reply: 189
Napas are closer to bok choy than cabbage in their appearance. I will post more once I get more info. :)

Quoted from 815
What a great thread! Thank you all for all the history and tips!  :K)
I might have been able to keep mine out one more day..maybe next time. I had it on my not dog last night with mustard. It was really good! Much better than the garbage you buy with vinegar. You can feel and taste the love and life force when you make it yourself! My mother used to eat cabbage saukraut out of a can and thought it was good for her..::)

IDK... TJ, I only have bok choy. Cabbage and saurkraut are an avoid. I hope that doesn't also mean fermenting other vegetables. :-/  I need my SWAMI updated. I got it from Dr. D when he first introduced the program. There's been a lot of foods added since then. Nappa Cabbage isn't listed. Just "Cabbage"  I wonder if that includes Nappa as well? Kinda like my cream question.
Thanks for the expiration range. I'll try to use it up in 2 months.
I like Chloe's recipe but radishes are a black dot.


Posted by: TJ, Saturday, August 13, 2011, 12:52am; Reply: 190
I need a clarification:
Quoted from passionprincess
1 head of Savoy Cabbage
1/4 cup Sea Salt
1 head of garlic
1 small vidalia (sweet onion)
1/4 cup pepper powder
1/4 cup sweet apple cider (can be found at farmer's market; I used unpasteurized, organic cider)
1/4 cup of brown rice starter flour
What do you mean by "pepper powder"?  A 1/4 cup ground cayenne pepper would make this inedible, so I assume you mean something else....

Also, you mentioned leaving out the ginger.  How much ginger is called for if I want to use it?

Quoted from Drea
Mayflowers, I suspect that any root vegetable would ferment nicely; there are so many to choose from! Select some from your beneficial list and experiment! I love turnips in general, and so also love fermented turnips, ginger root, and garlic! ;D
I don't think turnips or rutabagas could get much worse, so maybe I should try fermenting them. (think)
Posted by: passionprincess, Saturday, August 13, 2011, 2:08am; Reply: 191
The pepper powder is Korean pepper powder. I should have pointed that out. It is not as spicy and has a slightly sweet taste. Make sure you buy it from a Korean market and that it is imported from Korea and not China. The Chinese have been known to use chemicals and pass off non-food materials as food.

In a kimchee blog, the person wrote 1 knob ginger for 1 gallon. My recipe makes 1/2 gallon. I am thinking about 2 inches of ginger root. I avoided left it out b/c too much can make the kimchee bitter and spicy and I had a horrible experience with biting into a piece of ginger as a child.

I think fermented turnips and rutabaga would be awesome! Fermented daikon radish kimchee is one of my favorite kimchee. So I think the root veggies would be great!

Quoted from TJ
I need a clarification:
What do you mean by "pepper powder"?  A 1/4 cup ground cayenne pepper would make this inedible, so I assume you mean something else....

Also, you mentioned leaving out the ginger.  How much ginger is called for if I want to use it?

I don't think turnips or rutabagas could get much worse, so maybe I should try fermenting them. (think)


Posted by: passionprincess, Saturday, August 13, 2011, 3:15am; Reply: 192
My big issue is finding a gallon sized glass container to make some cultured veggies before school starts. I called local restaurants only to be told they use plastic jars. Yuck.

I go my half gallon container from sotre bought kimchee which had MSG and cost almost double or triple what it cost me to make the same. So I guess I paid for the container.
Posted by: ABJoe, Saturday, August 13, 2011, 3:31am; Reply: 193
1 gallon jars...  https://www.containerandpackaging.com/item.asp?item=G004&gclid=CLDs56Kqy6oCFZIZQgodtWKfVQ
Posted by: passionprincess, Saturday, August 13, 2011, 3:33am; Reply: 194
Thanks!! I just need two at most but might just order four from them. Thanks!!!

Quoted from ABJoe


Posted by: honeybee, Saturday, August 13, 2011, 4:16am; Reply: 195
Great idea about using the polyflora in fermented veg!
I have some carrots, garlic, beets, cabbage and ginger hanging around, all in season here atm, must try the ferment again, last week I made a bowl of shredded carrot and ginger that I could not wait 3 days or so to eat, so I ate it raw and unfermented on an empty stomach for lunch, and it gave me super nausea  :'( The natural sugar in carrots maybe??
Posted by: 815 (Guest), Saturday, August 13, 2011, 1:32pm; Reply: 196
I'm just amazed at how my digestion is so good when I add the broccolikraut to my food!  ;D
Honeybee, I got carrot/ginger soup at the HFS and I broke out in hives. Maybe it's something to do with the combo?  
Posted by: TJ, Saturday, August 13, 2011, 1:38pm; Reply: 197
Raw ginger is strong stuff.  Heck, even cooked or fermented ginger is potent!
Posted by: JJR, Saturday, August 13, 2011, 4:32pm; Reply: 198
I love ginger.   ;D
Posted by: passionprincess, Saturday, August 13, 2011, 4:35pm; Reply: 199
You can have all of mine! The only time I used ginger recently except for the crystallized stuff in my water kefir was when I made sweet potato, nuts, and apple mush in the slow cooker. I used very little but I could still smell and taste it.

My gingerless kimchee is good. You won't miss the ginger. :d

Quoted from JJR
I love ginger.   ;D


Posted by: TJ, Saturday, August 13, 2011, 8:29pm; Reply: 200
I don't know where I stand with ginger.  It's good for me, so that's a plus.  But it's also a very strange taste that I haven't figured out how to make use of in my cooking.
Posted by: Chloe, Saturday, August 13, 2011, 9:24pm; Reply: 201
My weird mixture of cucumbers, radishes, apples, ginger, garlic, cilantro came out delicious!  It
was just a little over 2 days fermenting and although I'm leaving the jars out for one more, I was able to eat some of it for lunch mixed into sardines... Normally ginger gives me reflux and garlic makes me burp....but once fermented, all of the ingredients sat well in my gut.

It's amazing that you can culture almost anything....Oh, BTW, I added a Polyflora A to this batch.
i like personalizing the bacteria I'm eating.
Posted by: Drea, Sunday, August 14, 2011, 12:59am; Reply: 202
I bought a bunch of cilantro, thinking I was going to make a jicama salad, but then the Internet went down and I couldn't look up the recipe. Instead, I made three more batches of fermented veggies:



All three are doing fine, though I have to say, my favorite is still turnips, ginger, and garlic! ;D

I'm also going to try some brocolli slaw-kraut, on Mayflowers' recommendation!
Posted by: passionprincess, Sunday, August 14, 2011, 1:27am; Reply: 203
I swear... you and your love for ginger and garlic! Koreans would love you for that. I always found the scent and taste too strong so I avoided certain Korean foods or washed my kimchee in water as a child. Even today, my kimchee is considered very mild. I run my garlic through the food processor and puree it so I would not get chunks in my kimchee. ;D

Quoted from Drea
I bought a bunch of cilantro, thinking I was going to make a jicama salad, but then the Internet went down and I couldn't look up the recipe. Instead, I made three more batches of fermented veggies:

  • red beets and ginger
  • jicama and ginger
  • jicama and carrots


All three are doing fine, though I have to say, my favorite is still turnips, ginger, and garlic! ;D

I'm also going to try some brocolli slaw-kraut, on Mayflowers' recommendation!


Posted by: JJR, Sunday, August 14, 2011, 3:24am; Reply: 204
Ginger is God's gift to man.  Well, at least to me.  It really helps my stomach.  Ginger to, but it's different.  But yes, I've eaten garlic raw too.  I prefer ginger raw though.
Posted by: honeybee, Sunday, August 14, 2011, 3:29am; Reply: 205
Yeah I don't usually have a prob with ginger, at all. In fact it is my go-to when I am nauseous. However when I threw up for a few hours at sea on a boat (dizzy) - even ginger didn't help (shrug)
Posted by: Drea, Sunday, August 14, 2011, 3:32am; Reply: 206
Sometimes, if you wait until you are already nauseous, it takes longer to kick in (the ginger, that is). I used to suck on raw ginger root whenever I went sailing, whether I felt sick or not, just to be sure. ;)
Posted by: Drea, Sunday, August 14, 2011, 4:47am; Reply: 207
Quoted from Drea
I just made another batch of cultured veggies and didn't do what I said I was going to...instead, I sliced, julienned, and shredded three red/white beets, sliced and shredded a large ginger root, and added two capsules of Polyflora A along with sea salt.


So I just tasted the beets and they are very close to tasting like canned sauerkraut! The jicama isn't near as far along in the fermented process, and the only difference besides the vegetables used, is the polyflora A. Hmmm.

Posted by: passionprincess, Sunday, August 14, 2011, 4:52am; Reply: 208
Polyflora has bacteria that will encourage fermentation. I use a bit of milk kefir+rice flour (instead of water and rice flour) to give it a boost. However, keep in mind that your fermentation will take place quicker because of the additional bacteria.

As long as you know how to control it, you will be fine.
Posted by: 815 (Guest), Sunday, August 14, 2011, 12:26pm; Reply: 209
Quoted from Drea


So I just tasted the beets and they are very close to tasting like canned sauerkraut! The jicama isn't near as far along in the fermented process, and the only difference besides the vegetables used, is the polyflora A. Hmmm.



Do you think the Polyflora A caused the fermintation to not be balanced?
Posted by: Drea, Sunday, August 14, 2011, 1:05pm; Reply: 210
It was balanced (and tasted great, btw), it just took a lot less time than the jars I made without it. Also, I used two polyflora A capsules for the one jar of beets/ginger, so next time I'll use only one. The other thing the polyflora A did was to make the batch bubble over into the bowl I had the jar sitting in, several times per day, which left the top veggies unprotected. They weren't moldy, but weren't the nice red color the submerged veggies are (more brown, though they tasted okay).

I know folks say this all the time, but the only way to really find out how something is going to work in your own environment is to experiment! I'm like you Mayflowers, I like to gather all the information beforehand, then attempt the project. With the water kefir, and more so the kombucha, I just winged it, and was pleasantly surprised at the awesome outcome!
Posted by: passionprincess, Sunday, August 14, 2011, 1:14pm; Reply: 211
Polyflora will make it ferment faster as Drea mentioned. My fear is that the veggies will get too sour and soft to eat.

Cabbage kimchee requires a "rice porridge" which is sweet rice and water mix. That is basically a starter for fermentation. I use milk kefir whey and brown rice flour. So it is similar to adding a Polyflora except brown rice takes a bit longer to ferment.
Posted by: Drea, Sunday, August 14, 2011, 1:30pm; Reply: 212
Quoted from passionprincess
Polyflora will make it ferment faster as Drea mentioned. My fear is that the veggies will get too sour and soft to eat.


passionprincess, yes! That's exactly what happened...the beet/ginger mix is very soft and sour (though I love sour). I prefer my fermented veggies to retain a slight crunch, which is usually why I like to thinly slice versus shred the veggies...but I was experimenting! I'll eat the beet/ginger mix anyway, but know I probably won't make it again with the polyflora A...the jicama, on the other hand, is sliced, but almost too crunchy. I may have to leave that one sitting out longer...
Posted by: passionprincess, Sunday, August 14, 2011, 1:38pm; Reply: 213
Basing the jicama on daikon radish, it might take a few days to up to a week. Once radish/root veggies are fermented properly, it is much more delicious than greens! IMHO.

If it gets too tangy, add some eggs and fry it up or throw in some meat or fish.

Your veggies sound soo good! I am brining my "Mexican" mix and will finish it after my nap.

Quoted from Drea


passionprincess, yes! That's exactly what happened...the beet/ginger mix is very soft and sour (though I love sour). I prefer my fermented veggies to retain a slight crunch, which is usually why I like to thinly slice versus shred the veggies...but I was experimenting! I'll eat the beet/ginger mix anyway, but know I probably won't make it again with the polyflora A...the jicama, on the other hand, is sliced, but almost too crunchy. I may have to leave that one sitting out longer...


Posted by: Drea, Sunday, August 14, 2011, 1:44pm; Reply: 214
Daikon radish is more "juicy" than this particular jicama I bought. It was kind of dry and tough, which is why I chose to ferment it, rather than just eat it raw...well, that, and the fact that I couldn't look up the recipe I had planned to use since the Internet went down... ;)
Posted by: grey rabbit, Sunday, August 14, 2011, 1:51pm; Reply: 215
Quoted Text
I prefer my fermented veggies to retain a slight crunch,
On the "wild fermentation" site there is mention of using grape leaves to keep cucumbers crisp, I wonder if it would work for other veggies.

I was wondering if the good bacteria are killed by heat? I was thinking of trying to make a faux ruben sandwich with fermented veggies and sliced turkey. I used to love rubens :)
Posted by: Drea, Sunday, August 14, 2011, 6:49pm; Reply: 216
The jicama and ginger ferment was a bust. I picked out the ginger, ate it, then tosses the jicama. I don't think slicing the jicama is the way to go (imo). The jury is still out on the jicama/carrot ferment, and I really, really, like the beet/ginger ferment, which is now in the fridge.
Posted by: Chloe, Sunday, August 14, 2011, 6:54pm; Reply: 217
I let my veggies sit for two days without Polyflora A...and on the 3rd day, add one capsule. I'm
waiting for the bacterial culture to form on its own and then hoping Polyflora's cultures will get combined and grow another day...I'm finding it keeps veggies crisper and so far, they haven't
gone too soft.
Posted by: TJ, Sunday, August 14, 2011, 7:43pm; Reply: 218
I was so-so about the jicama and carrot, so I got some red cabbage yesterday to add to it, and restarted the ferment.  Drea, I shredded the jicama (and the cabbage).
Posted by: JJR, Sunday, August 14, 2011, 8:01pm; Reply: 219
I was watching a public TV show yesterday and they were making bread on a historical working farm.  They said the starter for the bread got it's cultures from the air and the humidity.  So, I think for sourdough, that's where they're saying it comes from.  Whether that's completely correct or not, I know not.  But with the veggies, that wouldn't be the case because sourdough you let ferment in the open.  The veggies are sealed tight.  At least that's how I've been taught to do it.  
Posted by: Chloe, Sunday, August 14, 2011, 8:08pm; Reply: 220
What is a tomatillo??  (a bene for me) and does anyone think I can ferment it....or at least combine
it with other ingredients that might taste well with it.


Posted by: ABJoe, Sunday, August 14, 2011, 8:24pm; Reply: 221
Tomatillos are small fruits (used as a vegetable) enclosed in a husk. The fruit resembles a small unripe tomato and is usually green or yellow. The yellow color indicates ripeness, but tomatillos are most often used when they are still green. Green tomatillos are firmer and easier to slice. The husk that holds the fruit is paper-like and is light brown. The flesh is slightly acidic with a hint of lemon. Tomatillos belong to the same family as tomatoes.

More info @:
http://www.fruitsandveggiesmatter.gov/month/tomatillo.html

I have no idea whether they would ferment well...  They would probably be mush when fermented, but the flavor may be fine.
Posted by: Chloe, Sunday, August 14, 2011, 8:33pm; Reply: 222
Thanks ABJoe....:) I'm thinking I might be able to squish the other veggies I place in the jar and just
put in small chunks of tomatillos in with it..Or just cut them in half.  Given I live in the Northeast, I don't think I've ever seen or tasted one of these things.  I'm on a quest to find an organic tomatillo.  Why this came to mind is the concept of pickled tomatoes.  I think if I don't squish them, they might
hold their shape.
Posted by: Drea, Sunday, August 14, 2011, 9:18pm; Reply: 223
Quoted from TJ
I was so-so about the jicama and carrot, so I got some red cabbage yesterday to add to it, and restarted the ferment.  Drea, I shredded the jicama (and the cabbage).


Yes, I think shredding the jicama would work better, although, I'd just rather eat it fresh ;).
Posted by: passionprincess, Sunday, August 14, 2011, 9:47pm; Reply: 224
I forgot which thread I posted on but sourdough ferments both aerobically and anaerobically so it is needs to "breathe". It gets it bacteria and yeasts from the air.

San Francisco's sourdough starter has its own lactobacilus name: lactobacilus sanfrancisco!

After finding this out, my goal is to make brown rice starter doughs in all locations I visit from now. It is a bit silly but fun.

Quoted from JJR
I was watching a public TV show yesterday and they were making bread on a historical working farm.  They said the starter for the bread got it's cultures from the air and the humidity.  So, I think for sourdough, that's where they're saying it comes from.  Whether that's completely correct or not, I know not.  But with the veggies, that wouldn't be the case because sourdough you let ferment in the open.  The veggies are sealed tight.  At least that's how I've been taught to do it.  


Posted by: passionprincess, Sunday, August 14, 2011, 9:49pm; Reply: 225
Jicama and Asian pear have very similar textures. Asian pear is very crisp and delicious in kimchee. It is cut up into french fry sized matchsticks. I thought the jicama would turn out like the pears.
Posted by: Drea, Monday, August 15, 2011, 7:15pm; Reply: 226
I'm really enjoying the cultured/fermented beets and ginger, though the texture is not quite right. The beets were shredded, julienned, and sliced, and I can't figure out which I like the best. They are still firm, though, so that's good.
Posted by: honeybee, Monday, August 15, 2011, 10:26pm; Reply: 227
I like my fermented veg to be as crisp as possible, think I will pass on the polyflora if it makes them real soft.
Posted by: passionprincess, Monday, August 15, 2011, 10:33pm; Reply: 228
Korean daikon radish kimchee gets slightly soft but you still need to bite into them even a month after it's been made. They are about 1/2 in to 3/4 inch cubes so they are bite sized. They pretty much retain their texture after being fermented.

Drea, kimchee/fermenting really has a learning curve. I am experimenting, too. Luckily, my cabbage kimchee turned out perfect each time. It sounds like your ferments are really really scrumptious! So, the texture may be slightly off but no big deal. There is always next time! You are becoming a fermentation queen!!!
Posted by: Drea, Monday, August 15, 2011, 11:33pm; Reply: 229
Quoted from honeybee
I like my fermented veg to be as crisp as possible, think I will pass on the polyflora if it makes them real soft.


I used two polyflora's for one quart jar of beets and ginger. The softness was equivalent to canned sauerkraut (don't ask me how I know how that tastes :B). If there's a next time, I'm going with just one polyflora, though I like the ferments with just salt.
Posted by: Drea, Monday, August 15, 2011, 11:34pm; Reply: 230
Quoted from passionprincess
You are becoming a fermentation queen!!!

;D

Posted by: Chloe, Monday, August 15, 2011, 11:51pm; Reply: 231
What I'm finding amazing is that vegetables that normally would make me burp or give me
lots of bloat or gas are completely and totally digestible when fermented. I'm eating chunks of fermented garlic, onions, ginger and my belly is so happy. If I ate these same foods raw, I'd
be feeling awful.

I've got jars all over the place right now...various combinations of vegetables.  At this point, I'd
give up most cooked vegetables and just live on fermented ones.  From the time I was a child,
my favorite food was always sauerkraut.....although the type I was eating probably did me no good.
My body has always craved the taste of pickles and sauerkraut.

Has anyone ever tried to make their own pickles?  I'm thinking cucumbers, dill, salt, garlic, water....Anything else?
Posted by: Victoria, Tuesday, August 16, 2011, 1:11am; Reply: 232
Quoted from Chloe

Has anyone ever tried to make their own pickles?  I'm thinking cucumbers, dill, salt, garlic, water....Anything else?


I don't see why not.  There are brine pickles available in our natural food stores.
Posted by: 815 (Guest), Tuesday, August 16, 2011, 2:27pm; Reply: 233
Quoted from Chloe
I've got jars all over the place right now...various combinations of vegetables.  At this point, I'd give up most cooked vegetables and just live on fermented ones.


Fermented veggies would be great all the time in the Spring/Summer. Nice and chilled from the fridge!
Posted by: TJ, Tuesday, August 16, 2011, 6:47pm; Reply: 234
My poor red cabbage, jicama, and carrot is about to go down the disposal.  It keeps getting mold on it, and it's just not moving along.  I think it would be best to just start fresh, even if it does mean throwing away all that food! :'(
Posted by: Chloe, Tuesday, August 16, 2011, 6:54pm; Reply: 235
Quoted from TJ
My poor red cabbage, jicama, and carrot is about to go down the disposal.  It keeps getting mold on it, and it's just not moving along.  I think it would be best to just start fresh, even if it does mean throwing away all that food! :'(


Were your veggies pushed down way below the liquid line?

I've never had a mold problem on mine and sometimes I've fermented for 4 days.  Was your jar
lid on tight?

I'm also wondering if there was mold on the veggies prior to chopping them....You can always
do a light veggie soak where you add a cap full of Clorox to a sink full of water for 30 minutes, prior to chopping and squishing them with salt.

Posted by: Drea, Tuesday, August 16, 2011, 7:08pm; Reply: 236
I've decided that I just don't like fermented jicama. I love it raw, though! My batch of jicama and carrot is going into the compost. I won't eat it.
Posted by: JJR, Tuesday, August 16, 2011, 9:16pm; Reply: 237
I've never had jicama.  I think I can.  I need to try it.  
Posted by: TJ, Tuesday, August 16, 2011, 11:05pm; Reply: 238
Quoted from Chloe
Were your veggies pushed down way below the liquid line?
That is part of the problem.  They kept floating up out of the liquid.  I think the jicama may have been absorbing some of it, too.  The lid is definitely not tight, and can't be on this jar.  Next time, I'm going to lay a paper towel over the top like I did when I first tried fermenting.
Posted by: Drea, Tuesday, August 16, 2011, 11:11pm; Reply: 239
You can add water to the top if there's not enough liquid...
Posted by: passionprincess, Tuesday, August 16, 2011, 11:34pm; Reply: 240
If you brine it for a long time, it will not get moldy. You can always weigh down the veggies that float up with a plate or bowl inside your container. I use an inverted plate to push my veggies down because I am using a lidded casserole dish instead of a jar. It is fermenting nicely.

Chloe: On tomatillos - I would give anything to be able to eat that!!! It is an avoid on GTD. I hope to get SWAMIed in the near future but I doubt that I can have tomatillos. It has a slightly smoky flavor when compared to tomatoes. It is what they use to make green salsa (salsa verde) - tomatillo, cilantro, lemon juice, salt, and chile. I used to love tomatoes as a child but when I discovered tomatillo, I left my former lover behind. ;D You have to try it! It is an acquired taste but the salsa is amazing. I used to even use that stuff as pasta sauce!
Posted by: Chloe, Tuesday, August 16, 2011, 11:42pm; Reply: 241
Quoted from passionprincess


Chloe: On tomatillos - I would give anything to be able to eat that!!! It is an avoid on GTD. I hope to get SWAMIed in the near future but I doubt that I can have tomatillos. It has a slightly smoky flavor when compared to tomatoes. It is what they use to make green salsa (salsa verde) - tomatillo, cilantro, lemon juice, salt, and chile. I used to love tomatoes as a child but when I discovered tomatillo, I left my former lover behind. ;D You have to try it! It is an acquired taste but the salsa is amazing. I used to even use that stuff as pasta sauce!


Thanks PP for the tomatillo info....Can eat everything on that list for making salsa verde except
chiles.  What on earth could I sub?

Posted by: passionprincess, Tuesday, August 16, 2011, 11:43pm; Reply: 242
By the way, I made my cucumber, cauliflower, celery, and carrot fermentation. I just threw in some thyme, oregano, rosemary, and bay leaves into kefir whey and unpasteurized sweet apple cider.

I brined the veggies for a good 18-24 hours because I was purging from the cleanse and did not have the energy to mix the veggies. I was also strapped for space so I had to split the veggies into two containers.

Well, the cucumbers taste like dill pickles, almost because they are fermented. All the veggies in this mix are crisp but have a tangy fermented flavor to them.
Posted by: passionprincess, Tuesday, August 16, 2011, 11:44pm; Reply: 243
Maybe use a tiny bit of horseradish or some other spicy spice?

Quoted from Chloe


Thanks PP for the tomatillo info....Can eat everything on that list for making salsa verde except
chiles.  What on earth could I sub?



Posted by: Chloe, Tuesday, August 16, 2011, 11:46pm; Reply: 244
Quoted from TJ
That is part of the problem.  They kept floating up out of the liquid.  I think the jicama may have been absorbing some of it, too.  The lid is definitely not tight, and can't be on this jar.  Next time, I'm going to lay a paper towel over the top like I did when I first tried fermenting.


When you closed the jar lid, was there about an inch of liquid on top of the veggies?
Because if there is too much liquid when you start and not enough solids, without a tight lid, I'm
thinking the fermentation process which can be quite bubbly, it might have forced your solids
to propel upwards.  I've never had this happen because I keep forcing the veggies to become
tightly packed into my jar....and about an inch liquid goes all the way to the top of the rim...and then I tightly screw on the lid.  Nothing moves around at all.



Posted by: Chloe, Tuesday, August 16, 2011, 11:48pm; Reply: 245
Quoted from passionprincess
Maybe use a tiny bit of horseradish or some other spicy spice?





Horseradish...great idea....and I too made a fermentation mixture using very fresh crunch kirby cucumbers which came out tasting really awesome.  Adding garlic and ginger made me eat nearly 1/2 a jar in one sitting.
Posted by: TJ, Wednesday, August 17, 2011, 12:12am; Reply: 246
I put a small saucer in the jar on top of the veggies, and that helped somewhat, but not enough.  Guess I need to put a big rock on the saucer.  I used a potato masher to squash down the veggies and push out the bubbles as they formed, but it just wasn't enough.
Posted by: passionprincess, Wednesday, August 17, 2011, 12:23am; Reply: 247
Horseradish scares me because it is so spicy, though. So use with caution. ;D

I also threw in onions into my veggie mix. I like fermented cucumbers better because it is not as soft and mushy like pickles where they often boil the cucumbers before pickling!

Quoted from Chloe


Horseradish...great idea....and I too made a fermentation mixture using very fresh crunch kirby cucumbers which came out tasting really awesome.  Adding garlic and ginger made me eat nearly 1/2 a jar in one sitting.


Posted by: Drea, Wednesday, August 17, 2011, 12:24am; Reply: 248
I've decided not to toss the carrot/jicama fermented veggies, but just eat them. I've figured out why I don't like the taste...it tastes like old ice cubes. But the veggies are crunchy and sour, and I know they are good for me. I just won't make that combo again.
Posted by: Chloe, Wednesday, August 17, 2011, 1:17am; Reply: 249
Quoted from TJ
I put a small saucer in the jar on top of the veggies, and that helped somewhat, but not enough.  Guess I need to put a big rock on the saucer.  I used a potato masher to squash down the veggies and push out the bubbles as they formed, but it just wasn't enough.


How large is this container you're using to ferment your veggies?  It's glass or ceramic, right?

My best results come from using quart or pint sized jars.  You used a potato masher to initially
get your veggies to release their liquid?  I get great results by squishing them for about 5
minutes with my hands.
Posted by: Chloe, Wednesday, August 17, 2011, 1:23am; Reply: 250
Quoted from passionprincess
Horseradish scares me because it is so spicy, though. So use with caution. ;D

I also threw in onions into my veggie mix. I like fermented cucumbers better because it is not as soft and mushy like pickles where they often boil the cucumbers before pickling!





Are you talking about raw horseradish or prepared?  I eat horseradish of the jar all the time...
The raw stuff I've grated into sauces, salad dressing...I won't use too much.  But even when
I used a whole bunch of radishes in my last batch of fermented veggies, the final result was
that the radishes mellowed to where I couldn't taste the spicy flavor.

Now if you're talking about something spicy like wasabi....now that's a scary strong flavor if
you ingest too much at once...Instant tears....loss of breath...gasping for air.... :)

Posted by: passionprincess, Wednesday, August 17, 2011, 1:39am; Reply: 251
Both. Wasabi and the pickled stuff in the jar for relish. My tolerance for spicy stuff is not that high. I would wash Korean kimchee and have mild salsa.

The fermentation will get rid of the spicy flavor but things that are too spicy scare me. I have never dared to get near the raw stuff. Maybe if I am feeling a bit adventurous and brave...

Quoted from Chloe


Are you talking about raw horseradish or prepared?  I eat horseradish of the jar all the time...
The raw stuff I've grated into sauces, salad dressing...I won't use too much.  But even when
I used a whole bunch of radishes in my last batch of fermented veggies, the final result was
that the radishes mellowed to where I couldn't taste the spicy flavor.

Now if you're talking about something spicy like wasabi....now that's a scary strong flavor if
you ingest too much at once...Instant tears....loss of breath...gasping for air.... :)



Posted by: TJ, Wednesday, August 17, 2011, 2:03am; Reply: 252
I think I know the problem now.  The jicama/carrot was already fermented, and I added fresh cabbage.  I took all the fermented stuff out of the jar and mixed it in a bowl with the cabbage, and exposed it all to the air.  Maybe the breakdown from the prior lactofermentation made it easier for the yeast to grow?

Quoted from Chloe
How large is this container you're using to ferment your veggies?  It's glass or ceramic, right?

My best results come from using quart or pint sized jars.  You used a potato masher to initially get your veggies to release their liquid?  I get great results by squishing them for about 5 minutes with my hands.
I'm primarily using a glass jar that's about 1 gallon.  I also have a 1/2 gallon glass jar.  I use the potato masher to squeeze out juices and to pack the veggies into the jar.  I seems to work well.  I've been doing that from the start.

Posted by: TJ, Wednesday, August 17, 2011, 2:04am; Reply: 253
I just finished starting two more batches.  I mixed cabbage, carrot, and broccoli in the big jar, and the rest of the red cabbage with 1/2 tsp of garlic powder in the small jar.
Posted by: passionprincess, Wednesday, August 17, 2011, 2:07am; Reply: 254
Did you brine the cabbage? If not, that could the problem.

When you brine your veggies long enough, you can smell the lacto-fermentation before you even mix in the spices. Like I wrote in a couple posts before this, I left my veggies (forgot to mention the onions!) in brine for 24 hours or so. It smelled salty but also a bit fermented. I rinsed it once to get the saltiness out and mixed in the spices, kefir whey, and sweet apple cider. You cannot even taste the whey and apple cider now. It is not fully fermented and balanced but it is getting there. The ones that were soaked in the liquid are fermented. The ones that were on top and did not get as much liquid are a bit salty but fermenting. I just did not have enough space so I had to use two containers but ended up squishing everything! I have my cast iron frying pan sitting on top of my casserole dish with a saucer pushing the veggies down right now. Everything is submerged... as best as it can be.

Quoted from TJ
I think I know the problem now.  The jicama/carrot was already fermented, and I added fresh cabbage.  I took all the fermented stuff out of the jar and mixed it in a bowl with the cabbage, and exposed it all to the air.  Maybe the breakdown from the prior lactofermentation made it easier for the yeast to grow?

I'm primarily using a glass jar that's about 1 gallon.  I also have a 1/2 gallon glass jar.  I use the potato masher to squeeze out juices and to pack the veggies into the jar.  I seems to work well.  I've been doing that from the start.



Posted by: TJ, Wednesday, August 17, 2011, 2:16am; Reply: 255
I mix salt in and leave it while it's fermenting.  Is that what you mean?
Posted by: passionprincess, Wednesday, August 17, 2011, 2:21am; Reply: 256
Nope. By brining, I mean preparing your veggies before you spice it.

It is a technique used in kimchee making. You cut up your cabbage into bite sized pieces and rinse it a few times in water. You can rinse it before you cut the cabbage but since you are rinsing it after you cut, no need to repeat it. Rinsing the smaller pieces is much easier.

After you rinse the cabbage, it will be wet. Salt it. You can add a tiny bit of water if you are using coarse sea salt. My salt crystals are quite big so I use a bit of water. Let the cabbage sit in the salt solution (brine) for at least 1.5 hours. You can move the cabbage around so it soaks up the brine evenly.

You can rinse the brine off the cabbage once depending on how salty your solution is.

Then, you mix in your spices, etc.

I let mine sit in brine for 24 hours or so. You can totally smell the fermentation by then. You can taste it, too.

This way, you do not have to mash up your veggies!

Quoted from TJ
I mix salt in and leave it while it's fermenting.  Is that what you mean?


Posted by: Drea, Saturday, August 20, 2011, 4:46pm; Reply: 257
Now that cabbage is neutral, I'm making a batch of sauerkraut. I just finished packing it in the jars. If I had more space (I'm also fermenting kombucha tea and water kefir), I'd make the fermented turnip recipe that I love so much. Maybe tomorrow.
Posted by: Drea, Sunday, August 21, 2011, 8:09pm; Reply: 258
I remembered that I had those locking (air-tight) jars in storage, and knew exactly which box they were in, so I'm using those for my pickles, sauerkraut, and fermented turnip/ginger/carrot/garlic mix that I ended up making yesterday. The sauerkraut needs to be "burped" more often, and when I do, the jar spits at me, and I'm wondering if the seals need to be replaced (they are all old and cracked).
Posted by: Munchkin76, Sunday, August 21, 2011, 8:54pm; Reply: 259
This thread is so great!!

I've been inspired by you all.  So yesterday, I finely chopped some red cabbage, grated some ginger, chopped some garlic, grated some carrot, and finely chopped one birds eye chili, salted with about a tablespoon of pink Himalayan rock salt, mashed it up until the liquids started coming out (a lot) and bottled it up.  It's sitting on my counter now brewing - I hope it works out, this is the first time I've done it.  I'm excited though.

I was worried that there wasn't enough liquid, so I opened it this afternoon to push it all down a bit.  Anyway, it 'burped' at me - hurrah, I reckon it's working (clap).

So you guys swear by this whole fermented veg thing right?  What benefits should I hope for once I start introducing some into my daily diet?

Thanks again everyone!!

Andy
Posted by: ruthiegirl, Sunday, August 21, 2011, 9:55pm; Reply: 260
The obvious benefit I see is increased regularity- I get some issues with gassiness/constipation when I neglect my cultured veggies a few days in a row. I'm sure it helps with overall immunity as well,  but the GI reactions are the only once I really notice.
Posted by: Drea, Monday, August 22, 2011, 1:16am; Reply: 261
Found out today that the seals on the locking jars are working just fine LOL. I have to open the jars in the sink, unless I want "juice" all over ;).
Posted by: TJ, Monday, August 22, 2011, 2:38am; Reply: 262
I don't use tight-fitting lids, and that seems to work fine for me.
Posted by: Cristina, Monday, August 22, 2011, 4:48am; Reply: 263
To keep veggies down in the liquid, I add half lemons or a few cabbage leaves to the top of the jar.  This last layer can stay out of the liquid OK, since I do not get to eat it.  What stays underneath, in the brine is what goes into our plates ... I also massage my veggies well to get their juices flowing ... is the best part of making fermented veggies ... This way, I hardly use any water, if at all ...I did not read the whole thread, but you are all very inspiring and doing great!
:)
Posted by: Drea, Monday, August 22, 2011, 4:49am; Reply: 264
I ate a sour pickle today...could be sour-er, but it was gooooood! Perhaps I won't have to wait 4 weeks after all!
Posted by: passionprincess, Monday, August 22, 2011, 5:06am; Reply: 265
I make mine the same way. The only water my veggies get is when I wash them. I leave a bit of water so it can mix with the salt and form the brine. If the brine is too salty, then I rinse the veggies before I use other spices.

I found that brining the veggies (which is how kimchee is made) eliminates the need to crush the veggies. I use a plate, saucer, or bowl to keep the veggies in brine.

I am brining celery and onions today. I will let it sit while I sleep and then massage/move the veggies around in the bowl after I get up so the brine is distributed. After that... maybe thrown in some oregano, thyme, and rosemary? It is so simple.

My biggest problem is coming up with jars! I have posted on freecycle for help.

Quoted from Cristina
To keep veggies down in the liquid, I add half lemons or a few cabbage leaves to the top of the jar.  This last layer can stay out of the liquid OK, since I do not get to eat it.  What stays underneath, in the brine is what goes into our plates ... I also massage my veggies well to get their juices flowing ... is the best part of making fermented veggies ... This way, I hardly use any water, if at all ...I did not read the whole thread, but you are all very inspiring and doing great!
:)


Posted by: Cristina, Monday, August 22, 2011, 6:18am; Reply: 266
I have just made one with the 3 sound like k: cabbage, Kale and carrots ... pack them dry to the bottom of the jar (about 3 thirds up the jar), then added the brine that resulted from the massage ... filled the jar with it!  I mixed in the following the herbs from my garden: fennel leaves, celery herb, coriander ...  Run out of ginger, but it is pouring here, no game to dig some out ... May add that tomorrow ... :)
Posted by: Drea, Monday, August 22, 2011, 1:08pm; Reply: 267
I've been "eyeing" a fermenting/culturing crock (and they are pricey!). I like the idea of making a larger batch at one time, which takes up less space than having individual jars over all the usable surfaces...

Does anyone here use a culturing crock like this: TSM Crock?

Currently, I'm using locking glass canning jars of various sizes. I have other jars, but no plates that will fit inside...
Posted by: passionprincess, Monday, August 22, 2011, 2:30pm; Reply: 268
Have you checked freecycle or craigslist? Someone in my area has 2 gallon and 6 gallon crocks. They are too heavy for my 2nd story apartment so I all I could do is drool at the ad. They were selling it for less than 10 bucks. It is more for the backyard, though. I am assuming you can use those since you have the space.

Koreans use kimchee/fermentation crocks that sit outdoors because of nature's temperature. I am a bit envious of people who can fully utilize natural resources like that.

Quoted from Drea
I've been "eyeing" a fermenting/culturing crock (and they are pricey!). I like the idea of making a larger batch at one time, which takes up less space than having individual jars over all the usable surfaces...

Does anyone here use a culturing crock like this: TSM Crock?

Currently, I'm using locking glass canning jars of various sizes. I have other jars, but no plates that will fit inside...


Posted by: ruthiegirl, Monday, August 22, 2011, 2:36pm; Reply: 269
I save the  glass jars that food comes in, and I've been doing that  for years, so I have quite a collection now. My favorites are the ones from almond butter at Costco,but I also have a few different sizes from Bubbie's pickles (for DS)or kraut (before I found out I was a nonnie), gefilte fish, tomato sauce, jarred peaches, etc. I use these for food storage (leftovers) as well as for homemade rice  or almond milk and various ferments.
Posted by: Drea, Monday, August 22, 2011, 5:44pm; Reply: 270
I save glass jars, too; I'm just wanting something large enough to make more than a quart of ferment at one time... ;)
Posted by: Henriette Bsec, Monday, August 22, 2011, 5:59pm; Reply: 271
I made a really crazy combo saturday afternoon;
Spring cabbage, caarots, onion and a little chili
all from garden.
Added some seasalt and whey from drained creme fraise( our stuff is only cream and bacteria)  as well as a litle water
Tonight when I moved the glass it was really bubly :o :o( normally I would leave it out for 3 days)
- but also quite nice- not as salty as I remembered- but maybe a little to strong from chili
- however I think it will be nice with bland meat like turkey breast.
Posted by: Drea, Monday, August 22, 2011, 6:02pm; Reply: 272
I just found this Pickle, Sauerkraut, and KimChi maker and ordered one! ;D
Posted by: 815 (Guest), Monday, August 22, 2011, 6:41pm; Reply: 273
Quoted from Drea
I ate a sour pickle today...could be sour-er, but it was gooooood! Perhaps I won't have to wait 4 weeks after all!


I have pickle in brine as a black dot.  :(  I really like the broccolikraut on my not dog. So tasty!  :) I didn't eat much last week because I was on vacation (we ate out a lot) but this week I will.  I wish Dr. D would put up some information on fermenting vegetables and blood type.  :(  
Posted by: Drea, Monday, August 22, 2011, 6:44pm; Reply: 274
What I don't understand is if cucumbers are diamonds, and brine is just salt and water, then why the black dot for "pickles, in brine"? I'm eating them anyway.
Posted by: Munchkin76, Monday, August 22, 2011, 9:26pm; Reply: 275
My cabbage concoction is looking good and it 'burps' every time I let the pressure down a bit.  Tomorrow is day 3 so I'm thinking I'll taste it and put it in the fridge - how should it taste when it's 'done'?  Also, some of the water level seems to have disappeared - is this normal and should I top it up?  I think the cabbage must just be reabsorbing some??

Thanks again everyone, this thread is awesome!!  Ruthie, thanks for the heads up on the benefits - I'm looking forward to even better GI health soon!!

Andy  ;)
Posted by: Drea, Monday, August 22, 2011, 9:52pm; Reply: 276
My cabbage is absorbing the liquid, too. I've just been topping it off with brine. It's done when it's at the sour taste you love.  ;D
Posted by: passionprincess, Tuesday, August 23, 2011, 1:03am; Reply: 277
I only have one 1/2 gallon container when I bought commercial kimchee (it was loaded with msg, yuck!). I do not buy prepared foods, if I can help it. I did have some smaller pasta sauce jars but that was before my GTD days. I lived in graduate housing (dorms) so had to throw out the jars when I moved out. Also, since I only cooked for myself, I would buy the smaller jars.

I am using a lidded glass casserole dish to make my veggie ferments and kimchee jars for my kimchee. Other than that, only small 1 quart mason jars for kefir and company. I am hoping someone on freecycle or craigslist will help me out.

Quoted from ruthiegirl
I save the  glass jars that food comes in, and I've been doing that  for years, so I have quite a collection now. My favorites are the ones from almond butter at Costco,but I also have a few different sizes from Bubbie's pickles (for DS)or kraut (before I found out I was a nonnie), gefilte fish, tomato sauce, jarred peaches, etc. I use these for food storage (leftovers) as well as for homemade rice  or almond milk and various ferments.


Posted by: Drea, Tuesday, August 23, 2011, 3:17am; Reply: 278
I ate some of my sauerkraut tonight, and it's interesting. The flavor tastes like I put dijon mustard in it when I didn't. I don't think I shredded the cabbage fine enough, and the cabbage is kind of dry. Cabbage is only neutral, so I may not make it again soon. I much prefer the turnip/ginger/carrot/green onion ferment anyway.

The last batch of turnip, et al, was finely shredded instead of sliced, like I normally do it. The flavor was identical, but it fermented much faster.
Posted by: passionprincess, Tuesday, August 23, 2011, 4:52pm; Reply: 279
I got jars!!!! Someone on freecyle saw my ad. He owns an Italian place at the local farmer's market. I went and picked them up after class today.

8 glass one gallon jars!!! Woo hoo! 7 have metal lids with a bit of rust but I am going to buy plastic lids, no biggie.

**Doing the "I got jars" dance!!!** I am so excited that I can start fermenting in larger volumes without worrying about containers. Yippeeeee!
Posted by: Munchkin76, Tuesday, August 23, 2011, 9:10pm; Reply: 280
Quoted from Drea
My cabbage is absorbing the liquid, too. I've just been topping it off with brine. It's done when it's at the sour taste you love.  ;D


Thanks Drea, as soon as I put the post on here I decided to do just that.

I've topped it up again just now - it's still burping every time I open it!  I reckon tomorrow night, it'll be ready - I made it on Saturday morning so....

Thanks everyone again!

Andy
Posted by: Drea, Wednesday, August 24, 2011, 1:22am; Reply: 281
I just made another batch of cultured veggies, this time using the food processor. I thought I was using the grate disc, but it turned out to be the julienne disc. Ginger, garlic, carrots, turnips, korean pepper powder, and sea salt. Lots of juice, didn't have to add any water.
Posted by: passionprincess, Wednesday, August 24, 2011, 1:36am; Reply: 282
Wow, Drea! You are rocking it!

I miscounted my free glass jars - he actually gave me 10. I can get into this fermentation competition now... ;D So, slow down lady! I have to catch up to you. :)

It is a shame we are not near each other. It would be fun to have a tasting session of all the wonderful BTD/GTD/SWAMI fermentation creativity that goes on here!

Quoted from Drea
I just made another batch of cultured veggies, this time using the food processor. I thought I was using the grate disc, but it turned out to be the julienne disc. Ginger, garlic, carrots, turnips, korean pepper powder, and sea salt. Lots of juice, didn't have to add any water.


Posted by: Drea, Wednesday, August 24, 2011, 1:57am; Reply: 283
I have a case of quart-size wide mouth canning jars, two half-gallon glass jars, and two gallon glass jars that have a super wide mouth (not specifically for canning, though) and are for the liquid ferments only. I also have numerous (most are in storage) air-tight locking glass jars...

I also have a gallon jar coming in the mail that has the fancy (though plastic) top for fermenting veggies.

I'll probably add in another two gallon jars for liquid ferments, and save the quart-size jars for other things...

It's amazing because my kitchen is teeny tiny, and yet, I'm still a fermenting fool!
Posted by: passionprincess, Wednesday, August 24, 2011, 2:02am; Reply: 284
No, no! You are NOT a fool!

You are the fermenting queen! You are an expert who can give us really good advice.

I prefer plastic lids over the metal lids with liners and other stuff. The metal lids with the plastic in it has BPA while most plastic lids do not.

I just got gallon jars that had Italian style olives and pickles and such. It is gunky with dried olive oil and veggies bits. I have a ton of washing to do. The guy left it out in a crate and it got rained on. The metal lids have rust. I am trying to buy plastic lids online.

Quoted from Drea
I have a case of quart-size wide mouth canning jars, two half-gallon glass jars, and two gallon glass jars that have a super wide mouth (not specifically for canning, though) and are for the liquid ferments only. I also have numerous (most are in storage) air-tight locking glass jars...

I also have a gallon jar coming in the mail that has the fancy (though plastic) top for fermenting veggies.

I'll probably add in another two gallon jars for liquid ferments, and save the quart-size jars for other things...

It's amazing because my kitchen is teeny tiny, and yet, I'm still a fermenting fool!


Posted by: ruthiegirl, Wednesday, August 24, 2011, 2:12am; Reply: 285
Do all your ferments need tight-fitting lids? Or can you cover some of them with a circle of fabric held in place with a rubber band?
Posted by: Drea, Wednesday, August 24, 2011, 2:17am; Reply: 286
My liquid ferments need to "breathe", so a cloth with a rubber band is sufficient, at least for the first ferment. The second ferment needs tight fitting lids.

My veggie ferments do better (less mold, etc) with tight fitting lids, especially since I've not perfected the plate/boiled rock lid sitch.
Posted by: passionprincess, Wednesday, August 24, 2011, 2:17am; Reply: 287
I just ferment everything the way I saw my mom make kimchee. She would let the veggies sit in brine for hours or overnight so the lacto-fermentation already starts. The spices would be mixed into the veggies and then locked up in a glass jar or fermentation crock with a lid.

I never crush my veggies, either. Everything sits in a saltwater bath and then goes into a container with a lid. I had no problems with any of my fermentation. The carrots, onion, and celery are super crisp while being fermented instead of being soft and limp.

Quoted from ruthiegirl
Do all your ferments need tight-fitting lids? Or can you cover some of them with a circle of fabric held in place with a rubber band?


Posted by: Drea, Wednesday, August 24, 2011, 2:19am; Reply: 288
My veggie ferments are crisp and crunchy, even though I "massage" them with the salt. I don't smash them, just massage them (there's a difference in my mind ;)).
Posted by: passionprincess, Wednesday, August 24, 2011, 2:25am; Reply: 289
I massage them and let them sit in their salt bath. I know other recipes suggest smashing the veggies. I think that injures them and kills some of their life force. That is just me. I am trying to let them be as full of life as possible. :)

Quoted from Drea
My veggie ferments are crisp and crunchy, even though I "massage" them with the salt. I don't smash them, just massage them (there's a difference in my mind ;)).


Posted by: Drea, Wednesday, August 24, 2011, 2:30am; Reply: 290
I agree, full of life is better than smashed. ;D
Posted by: passionprincess, Wednesday, August 24, 2011, 2:33am; Reply: 291
...and less labor intensive, too! I like doing things the easy way. I found that massaging it in salt (with just enough water to keep the veggies wet) allows me to do a single and double fermentation at the same time. I am assuming the initial fermentation starts with the salt massage. I can smell the fermentation by the time I am ready to put the spices in.

Quoted from Drea
I agree, full of life is better than smashed. ;D


Posted by: Munchkin76, Wednesday, August 24, 2011, 2:13pm; Reply: 292
Oh dear, I squished mine with a potato mashed to get the water out (that's what I was told). Will massage them gently by hand next time.

Thanks y'all!

Andy  ;)
Posted by: passionprincess, Wednesday, August 24, 2011, 2:20pm; Reply: 293
It is okay to squish them because you are trying to draw the juices out. Wetting the veggies slightly and salting them actually does the same thing without all the labor. :)

That is how they make kimchee with cabbage, radishes, etc. I just use the same technique and do a simple one-step fermentation. Perhaps, it IS double since the saltwater massage is the first fermentation and then the spices are the second...

Have fun and welcome to the fermentation club!

Quoted from Munchkin76
Oh dear, I squished mine with a potato mashed to get the water out (that's what I was told). Will massage them gently by hand next time.

Thanks y'all!

Andy  ;)


Posted by: Munchkin76, Wednesday, August 24, 2011, 2:37pm; Reply: 294
Quoted from passionprincess
It is okay to squish them because you are trying to draw the juices out. Wetting the veggies slightly and salting them actually does the same thing without all the labor. :)

That is how they make kimchee with cabbage, radishes, etc. I just use the same technique and do a simple one-step fermentation. Perhaps, it IS double since the saltwater massage is the first fermentation and then the spices are the second...

Have fun and welcome to the fermentation club!





Thanks PP, glad to be an honorary member!

What's a double fermentation? I just shredded my cabbage, carrots, ginger, garlic and chili. I sprinkled with pink himilayan rock salt as I went (about 1 tablespoon) and then squished it liberally with a potato masher. Stored on my kitchen counter in a large glass jar with a tight lid.

Have been topping up with brine as it gets absorbed to keep the liquid just above the veg. It's been about 4 days now. I'll probably put it in the fridge when I get home from work tonight.

Is there anything else I should be doing?

Posted by: passionprincess, Wednesday, August 24, 2011, 2:53pm; Reply: 295
Drea mentions double fermentation on the previous page.

Basically, you have all your veggies and spices in the jar with a breathable lid (coffee filter, cloth, etc.) and then, after it starts fermenting, the veggies are sealed in a container with a tight lid.

It sounds like you did all the right things from what I have read in terms of sauerkraut recipes. :) Let me know how it turns out.

Quoted from Munchkin76


Thanks PP, glad to be an honorary member!

What's a double fermentation? I just shredded my cabbage, carrots, ginger, garlic and chili. I sprinkled with pink himilayan rock salt as I went (about 1 tablespoon) and then squished it liberally with a potato masher. Stored on my kitchen counter in a large glass jar with a tight lid.

Have been topping up with brine as it gets absorbed to keep the liquid just above the veg. It's been about 4 days now. I'll probably put it in the fridge when I get home from work tonight.

Is there anything else I should be doing?



Posted by: Munchkin76, Wednesday, August 24, 2011, 3:00pm; Reply: 296
Cool, thanks!

Will let you know how it goes!
Posted by: 815 (Guest), Wednesday, August 24, 2011, 3:38pm; Reply: 297
Quoted from Drea
What I don't understand is if cucumbers are diamonds, and brine is just salt and water, then why the black dot for "pickles, in brine"? I'm eating them anyway.


;D  I like your attitude sista.  Possibly too much salt can affect a Warrior's blood pressure and possibly cause a stroke..? My thoughts on it.

If I get a chance, and he's not too busy, I'll ask Dr. D when I see him on the 17th.  I usally have all these questions then I see him.. and my mind goes blank. A's get flustered by all that's going on..easy.
Posted by: ABJoe, Wednesday, August 24, 2011, 4:04pm; Reply: 298
Quoted from 815
I usually have all these questions then I see him.. and my mind goes blank. A's get flustered by all that's going on..easy.

Write them down (and remember to take them with you..). ;)

Seriously, I have to write everything down to make sure I ask or do all I expect to do anymore...  I sure hope these mental disconnects eventually clear up so I can think and remember things again...
Posted by: Mickey, Wednesday, August 24, 2011, 7:03pm; Reply: 299
Have questions for all my fellow fermenters.

I've been on an antibiotic for about a week now.  I forgot i had some beet kvass in the frig. that i made last summer when i thought i was an explorer.  Now beets are a black dot for me.  I opened the jar of beet kvass and it still smells fine and there's no evidence of mold.  First of all do you think it's still safe to drink?.  Would it be ok to have it even though it's a black dot?.  I'm wondering if anything would be better than nothing right now as far as good bacteria.  I don't have the energy to put into making any other fermented veggies right now and i don't have the mula to buy any probiotics.

Thanks!
;)
Posted by: Drea, Wednesday, August 24, 2011, 7:05pm; Reply: 300
Quoted from 815

Possibly too much salt can affect a Warrior's blood pressure and possibly cause a stroke..? My thoughts on it.


I've been eating fermented veggies for a while now, and I just had my blood pressure taken...112/58.
Posted by: ruthiegirl, Thursday, August 25, 2011, 8:07pm; Reply: 301
Quoted from Mickey
Have questions for all my fellow fermenters.

I've been on an antibiotic for about a week now.  I forgot i had some beet kvass in the frig. that i made last summer when i thought i was an explorer.  Now beets are a black dot for me.  I opened the jar of beet kvass and it still smells fine and there's no evidence of mold.  First of all do you think it's still safe to drink?.  Would it be ok to have it even though it's a black dot?.  I'm wondering if anything would be better than nothing right now as far as good bacteria.  I don't have the energy to put into making any other fermented veggies right now and i don't have the mula to buy any probiotics.

Thanks!
;)
Beets are a black dot, not an avoid. Beet Kvass specifically is not evaluated- so it might be neutral or even beneficial for you.

If I were you, I'd go ahead and drink the kvass and not worry about it. See if you can find the energy to get some other ferments going in the next few days, with beneficial or at least neutral veggies.

Posted by: Drea, Friday, August 26, 2011, 3:46am; Reply: 302
Several days ago I made a batch of pickles in brine. I couldn't figure out how to keep the pickles covered, though, so I experimented with several different-sized locking jars that I have. The one that worked the best is a tall jar, but the pickles kept floating to the top. Then I discovered that I have stemless glasses that are just the perfect size to fit in the top, adding water in the glass to make it heavy, and voila! the pickles are submerged. Now that's using my noggin' ;D.

I just tasted a pickle and boy is it good. I read somewhere that adding grape leaves to pickles keep them crunchy. I'll definitely try that next time.
Posted by: passionprincess, Friday, August 26, 2011, 8:38am; Reply: 303
I used a saucer with a plastic mason jar lid stacked on top before sealing the celery onion with the lid. It was enough to keep the veggies down.

The celery is crunchy and the onion lost its "oniony bite". The longer it ferments, it does not smell like raw onions nor cause mild heartburn (which was my problem yesterday but not today). I am thinking fermented onions would be a perfect relish for greasy/meaty foods.

They say the tannins in grape leaves keep the pickles crunchy. I am wondering if tea bags can do the same thing except the brine might get a tea like flavor.

Quoted from Drea
Several days ago I made a batch of pickles in brine. I couldn't figure out how to keep the pickles covered, though, so I experimented with several different-sized locking jars that I have. The one that worked the best is a tall jar, but the pickles kept floating to the top. Then I discovered that I have stemless glasses that are just the perfect size to fit in the top, adding water in the glass to make it heavy, and voila! the pickles are submerged. Now that's using my noggin' ;D.

I just tasted a pickle and boy is it good. I read somewhere that adding grape leaves to pickles keep them crunchy. I'll definitely try that next time.


Posted by: Mickey, Friday, August 26, 2011, 3:16pm; Reply: 304
RuthieGirl,

Thanks for the reassurance!.  I feel better now that i can utilize the beet kvass still and get some benefit from it.  ;)
Posted by: passionprincess, Saturday, August 27, 2011, 1:44am; Reply: 305
I am finally going to make kimchee this weekend! My starter flour had died when I stuck it in the fridge. Now that I have a new batch, I can go ahead and inoculate the kimchee with it. ;D

My onion fermentation gave me a mini detox. I have more energy than ever before and my chest is clearer than ever, too. I am only eating what I prepared until my paycheck arrives so I had a load of fermented onions, a bit of celery, and brown rice for dinner. It was enough to keep me full and satisfied. I had the same thing yesterday and the day before. The prior days, as noted above - I had mild heartburn (because it was not fully balanced/fermented yet). No heartburn after it became perfectly fermented. It is slightly crunchy (like raw onions), sweet (because it is vidalia sweet onions), not really salty, though since I did not use much salt... Almost reminds me of a oniony sauerkraut.

Anyway, the detox from it is a neat experience. It is not majorly noticeable. I thought I was coming down with a cold b/c of the chest congestion (and my prof. said she was sick and told us not to get too close to her). Well, I had a productive cough for about 10 min. earlier today and whoa.. clear chest!

So, give onions a try! :)
Posted by: 815 (Guest), Saturday, August 27, 2011, 1:10pm; Reply: 306
Quoted from ABJoe

Write them down (and remember to take them with you..


I've done that. I was too embarrassed to whip out a list of questions and start asking..Didn't want to take up his time..   I know. I know.  :B
Posted by: 815 (Guest), Saturday, August 27, 2011, 1:12pm; Reply: 307
Quoted from Drea


I've been eating fermented veggies for a while now, and I just had my blood pressure taken...112/58.


Possibly later in life for a Warrior. 60's and up..
Posted by: passionprincess, Saturday, August 27, 2011, 1:50pm; Reply: 308
Mayflowers Hugs!!!! Thank you for writing about water kefir. If it weren't for your comments, I never would have gotten into them! They are helping me keep my candida under control and are a wonderful alternative to water when I am running around in humid heat! You made me a water kefir addict. ;D
Posted by: 815 (Guest), Sunday, August 28, 2011, 5:25pm; Reply: 309
Quoted from passionprincess
Mayflowers Hugs!!!! Thank you for writing about water kefir. If it weren't for your comments, I never would have gotten into them! They are helping me keep my candida under control and are a wonderful alternative to water when I am running around in humid heat! You made me a water kefir addict. ;D


My pleasure. I actually thought original kefir was made from grains. I think it was made from cow's milk.

Posted by: passionprincess, Sunday, August 28, 2011, 5:33pm; Reply: 310
Mayflowers - I read that from Dom's site, too. It is really fascinating how those "grains" came about. I will post pictures of my kefir bottle cozies later. It is my little "distraction" from studying. ;D I am dreaming up new bottle cozy patterns as we speak.
Posted by: Drea, Monday, August 29, 2011, 12:18am; Reply: 311
I'm still waiting (and not very patiently, I might add ;)) for my 1-gallon kimchi maker to arrive in the mail. I jumped the gun and bought the veggies hoping I could speed up the delivery, but at least turnips and cabbage last longer than other veggies...

I ate some of the fermented turnip concoction I made on the 24th. It was good, too. I just want to be able to make bigger batches. I'm fermenting some garlic, and just tasted a clove, but it definitely needs to ferment for several more weeks.
Posted by: 815 (Guest), Monday, August 29, 2011, 1:02am; Reply: 312
Quoted from 978I
ate some of the fermented turnip concoction I made on the 24th. It was good, too. I just want to be able to make bigger batches. I'm fermenting some garlic, and just tasted a clove, but it definitely needs to ferment for several more weeks.


Drea, how's your digestion since you've been eating fermented veggies? Is it better? Worse?
Posted by: Drea, Monday, August 29, 2011, 1:06am; Reply: 313
I think it's better, actually, though it was good before, elimination-wise. I just love the taste/flavors.
Posted by: Mickey, Monday, August 29, 2011, 1:11am; Reply: 314
Quoted Text
I'm fermenting some garlic, and just tasted a clove, but it definitely needs to ferment for several more weeks.

Drea,
How long does it usually take to ferment garlic?.  I'm thinking of giving it a try.



Does anyone know how much beet kvass i should be consuming daily to counteract the effects of the antibiotics i just finished?.

BTW, Does everybody use organic veggies when they ferment?.

Thanks!
;)
Posted by: Drea, Monday, August 29, 2011, 1:23am; Reply: 315
Quoted from Mickey

Drea,
How long does it usually take to ferment garlic?.  I'm thinking of giving it a try.



Does anyone know how much beet kvass i should be consuming daily to counteract the effects of the antibiotics i just finished?.

BTW, Does everybody use organic veggies when they ferment?.

Thanks!
;)


I started the garlic on 8/24 and it's definitely not done yet, though I did just put the whole cloves in the brine, so it'll take longer than if I'd crushed or sliced it...

Also, I always use organic veggies in my ferments.

I have no experience on the beet kvass, so can't speak to that.
Posted by: passionprincess, Monday, August 29, 2011, 3:34am; Reply: 316
Used my fermented celery and onion to make liver pate instead of using fresh raw onions. It made the pate taste even better! I LOVE fermented veggies!
Posted by: Drea, Monday, August 29, 2011, 9:09pm; Reply: 317
I'm eating the turnip ferment, but find it has too much ginger root :o, even for my tastes. I have more turnips, so may start another batch this afternoon. Other than the excess ginger, fermented turnips are my all time favorite.
Posted by: passionprincess, Monday, August 29, 2011, 10:27pm; Reply: 318
My 1 cup chopper did not chop my garlic finely enough (had two to three cloves that were almost 3/4 whole!). I stuck it into the bottom of my kimchee hoping that it will ferment by the time I get to it.

Kimchee making is getting easier and easier. Now that I have more jars... I want to try fermenting fruit.
Posted by: 815 (Guest), Monday, August 29, 2011, 10:29pm; Reply: 319
Quoted from Drea
I'm eating the turnip ferment, but find it has too much ginger root :o, even for my tastes. I have more turnips, so may start another batch this afternoon. Other than the excess ginger, fermented turnips are my all time favorite.

Can you actually taste the difference in the different vegetables? My broccolikraut tastes just like sourkraut made from cabbage to me. :)
Posted by: Drea, Monday, August 29, 2011, 11:09pm; Reply: 320
Oh yes! Perhaps it's because broccoli is closer in relation to cabbage, than turnips are to carrots, ginger, and garlic?
Posted by: passionprincess, Monday, August 29, 2011, 11:16pm; Reply: 321
I can imagining the taste being similar because of the PROP sensitivity. I think the chemicals are similar... but don't quote me on that. I do not have citations or anything. I just recall reading something about that... I need to go and review it, though.
Posted by: Drea, Monday, August 29, 2011, 11:43pm; Reply: 322
Yay! My 1-gallon glass kimchee maker came in via Fed Ex tonight! Now I just have to figure out how to use it! LOL

I'm glad I waited to shred the veggies, well not so much about the shredding, but the stuffing! I would hate to have to do that twice!
Posted by: passionprincess, Monday, August 29, 2011, 11:45pm; Reply: 323
Drea - Please give us a full review. I am totally looking forward to reading it. SOOOO excited for you! :)
Posted by: Drea, Tuesday, August 30, 2011, 12:35am; Reply: 324
Well, so far so good...there is a really clear step-by-step instruction on how to use the device on the Internet. I just made red and green sauerkraut. I used the food processor to slice the cabbage, and both cabbages were medium to large, and filled a huge ss stock pot, but by the time the salt took hold, it only filled up the gallon jar a little more than half. Salt, cabbage, and water. I poured water to fill up the jar (I could have used more cabbage, but didn't have any). Now the jar is sitting on a plate in the same space that I use for the water kefir and kombucha.

Thanks to the suggestion by passionprincess, I now use a dry erase marker to mark the glass jars with the date I started each ferment.
Posted by: Drea, Tuesday, August 30, 2011, 3:46am; Reply: 325
Fruit kimchee sound good: http://picklesnotpipebombs.info/2010/11/07/fruit-kimchi/

I haven't tried it, just imagining. ;)
Posted by: Munchkin76, Tuesday, August 30, 2011, 9:08pm; Reply: 326
Hey everyone

Well having been away for the last few days, I finally got around to tasting my cultured veg (cabbage, carrot, ginger and chili).  I had about a tablespoon or so with tonight's dinner (marinated organic lamb steak, sweet potato mash, peas and steamed courgettes).  It was really good!!  Now that I'm no longer a novice I'm looking forward to experimenting.  I've realised that they sell daikon raddish here (called mooli in the supermarket), so I think that'll be an interesting new ingredient for the next batch!

Thanks again y'all for the support, tips and advice (clap)

Andy  :D
Posted by: passionprincess, Tuesday, August 30, 2011, 9:36pm; Reply: 327
Congrats, Andy!

Koreans use daikon radish to make kimchee. When daikon radish is fermented right, I think it is much better than cabbage kimchee. Koreans make this clear beef bone broth and would use the daikon radish kimchee to spice it up and make it seem less greasy.

Enjoy!
Posted by: Munchkin76, Wednesday, August 31, 2011, 10:46am; Reply: 328
PP, do you have a daikon kimchee recipe you can share/recommend? (pray)

I know I can search the net but personal recommendations are always best I find.

Thanks!

Andy
Posted by: Kim, Wednesday, August 31, 2011, 11:23am; Reply: 329
Just starting to think of making cultured foods after lurking on this thread.  Where are you all getting recipes?  Or are you just making them up as you go along?  
Posted by: Drea, Wednesday, August 31, 2011, 1:05pm; Reply: 330
Quoted from Kim
Just starting to think of making cultured foods after lurking on this thread.  Where are you all getting recipes?  Or are you just making them up as you go along?  


I got a lot of my inspiration from Sandor Katz's Wild Fermentation book (I recommend it), and past experience of eating turnip kimchee that I used to be able to find in Japanese markets when I lived in CA...that recipe I searched the Internet for until I found one that had the same taste ingredients.

Other than that, I've just been experimenting. ;D
Posted by: Munchkin76, Wednesday, August 31, 2011, 2:45pm; Reply: 331
Quoted from Drea


I got a lot of my inspiration from Sandor Katz's Wild Fermentation book (I recommend it), and past experience of eating turnip kimchee that I used to be able to find in Japanese markets when I lived in CA...that recipe I searched the Internet for until I found one that had the same taste ingredients.

Other than that, I've just been experimenting. ;D


Drea, care to share your recipe?
Posted by: passionprincess, Wednesday, August 31, 2011, 3:56pm; Reply: 332
Hi, Andy.

I just use kimchee recipes from memory and online. My grandmother and mother would make kimchee at home. I called my mom after finding some recipes online to get her input. I, then, tweaked it to be GTD compliant. :)

Here is a daikon radish recipe:
http://www.asianculinaryrecipes.com/korea-cookery/daikon-radish-kimchi.php

You can drop the fish paste. Just add extra salt or brine your radish in extra salty water. As for the glutinous flour, I use my brown rice flour starter (kefir whey + brown rice - it has more probiotics).

I am not too fond of leeks or chives. It can be dropped from the recipe. However, cucumber kimchee with chives is another story.


This is a "mool kimchee" (aka water kimchee) recipe where it is less spicy, more "white" (sometimes referred to as baek - white - kimchee). You can use Asian pear or substitute with an apple. The fruit makes this kimchee more crisp and refreshing. The broth/brine after fermenting is used as a hangover remedy or for cold noodles in the summer time. It is a light, crisp, refreshing noodle dish that goes well with greasy and heavier bbqs.

You can add a few bits of cucumber and carrot. My granny used to add whatever carrots or cucumbers we had at home.

http://www.chow.com/recipes/11293-mul-kimchi-white-kimchi-water-kimchi


You can pm me or post questions here in terms of modifying the recipe.
Posted by: Munchkin76, Wednesday, August 31, 2011, 6:33pm; Reply: 333
Fantastic PP, you're a star!!

This is definitely my next project when my last batch of goodies is nearly done!!

Thanks again!!

Andy  ;D
Posted by: passionprincess, Wednesday, August 31, 2011, 7:00pm; Reply: 334
Have fun, Andy! My pleasure!!
Posted by: Drea, Wednesday, August 31, 2011, 11:56pm; Reply: 335
My recipe is slightly different: turnips (about 5 or 6), 1 carrot, 5 cloves of garlic, 2" ginger root, a bunch of green onions (just the green part), sliced.

Last time I julienned all the veggies (using a food processor), except the green onions. I've also sliced all the veggies using a food processor, so do whatever texture you like.

Put all the veggies in a bowl (except the green onion), sprinkle with salt (approx 2-3 Tablespoons), massage the veggies until they produce their own juice, add the green onion tops, and 1-2 Tablespoons of red pepper (if you want). Stuff into a jar, making sure all the veggies are submerged under their own liquid, etc...
Posted by: Drea, Thursday, September 1, 2011, 4:21am; Reply: 336
The sauerkraut in the new 1-gallon kimchee maker is bubbling over like crazy (I'm so glad I followed the advice to put the jar on a plate -- in fact, I transferred the jar to a bowl last night and am glad I did!). The cabbage is slowly moving upward, pushing the water out the top, and there is a space on the bottom of the jar that contains only water! Pretty cool to watch the process; just like in the video tutorial that came with the jar!
Posted by: Drea, Friday, September 2, 2011, 10:08pm; Reply: 337
I'm rather disappointed in the sauerkraut. It's been fermenting for 4 days and is neither salty nor sour. :-/

I'm going to put it in smaller locking lid type jars to see if I can get it to be more sour. I'm not sure about the kimchee maker; I'll have to try another batch of something before I say if I like it one way or another...
Posted by: Drea, Saturday, September 3, 2011, 11:08pm; Reply: 338
I didn't do what I said; instead I did this: I pulled all the kraut out of the gallon jar, rinsed the jar, poured off the liquid of the kraut in the bowl, stuffed it back into the gallon jar, then added 2 qts of brine (adding 4 Tablespoons of sea salt to the water), then put the contraption back together and left it to do it's thing. Time moves so slowly when one is waiting :-/. I'll taste it tomorrow.
Posted by: passionprincess, Sunday, September 4, 2011, 3:57am; Reply: 339
The fruit kimchi recipe actually makes about 3 quarts (1/2 gallon) IF you follow the recipe!  I followed most of the directions and ended up with 2 quart jars. I left out the nuts, extra peppers, etc. I only used sea salt, jalapeno (1/4), cilantro, lemon juice, and tiny bit of sweet apple cider.

Since I had a lot of cilantro left over, I made fermented veggies: broccoli, beets, carrots, celery, bell peppers (red, yellow, orange), and onions. Spices: sea salt, jalapeno (3/4), cilantro, garlic, lemon juice, and sweet apple cider. Inspired by the lovely smell of cilantro, garlic, lemon juice, and sea salt! Reminds me of my favorite Mexican salsa except I modified it (both the fruit and veggies).

I lost one glass gallon jar when I was trying to finish washing the rest. Oh well.
Posted by: TJ, Sunday, September 4, 2011, 3:53pm; Reply: 340
You gotta be careful about fruit ferments.  If you get yeast in there... ;)
Posted by: passionprincess, Sunday, September 4, 2011, 5:40pm; Reply: 341
Of course! But this is closer to  fruity salsa. It has salt to lacto-ferment it and keep the yeast at bay.

Quoted from TJ
You gotta be careful about fruit ferments.  If you get yeast in there... ;)


Posted by: Drea, Monday, September 5, 2011, 9:27pm; Reply: 342
So here's my review of the gallon glass kimchee maker:

A gallon of fermented veggies is too darn much (but that's not the fault of the kimchee maker). The gallon jar has a larger mouth than standard canning jars, so the lids don't fit any other jars (and visa-versa). I wish the inner cap was made of something other than plastic, and made in two halves, so I could have it sit farther down (and wouldn't have to add brine) if I didn't have enough veggies to fill the entire container.

The idea is a good one, though, and I have a gallon of turnips, carrots, ginger, garlic, and korean pepper powder fermenting now. I may try the half-gallon size if I choose to buy another one.
Posted by: passionprincess, Monday, September 5, 2011, 9:50pm; Reply: 343
Drea - It looks like an interesting contraption. I found out that if I brine my veggies, it does a bit longer to ferment BUT you do not get the water overflowing out of the container. Brining takes the liquid out of the veggies and then, the spices and additional water goes back in. The shorter the brining period, the more water the veggies will expel while in the container, causing water to come out of the jar.

Thank you for the review!

My current ferments are sitting on plates and casserole dishes to catch the overflow. I might just brine longer next time. I ran out of the patience this time so I did not brine long enough, imho.

It has a learning curve. There is a science and art to it. Most of all, it is fun! I am still learning and experimenting.
Posted by: Drea, Monday, September 5, 2011, 11:48pm; Reply: 344
When you say brining (I know you've talked about it before, but I'm too lazy to look it up ;)), what exactly does that mean and how do you do it?
Posted by: passionprincess, Monday, September 5, 2011, 11:58pm; Reply: 345
Maybe I should have written "salting". Brining would be soaking it in salt water but I usually sprinkle salt on wet veggies (a bit of water on them from being washed) and let it sit for a few hours. I use huge chunks of sea salt so the more water I have, the easier for the salt to melt. I know I could grind the salt but I am lazy.

I would let it sit in the salt for a bit, massage it, turn it over so the areas that were not as exposed to the salt gets some coverage and then let it sit some more.

You can smell the lacto-fermentation after a few hours. The veggies smell salty and have that fermentation smell.

Quoted from Drea
When you say brining (I know you've talked about it before, but I'm too lazy to look it up ;)), what exactly does that mean and how do you do it?


Posted by: Drea, Tuesday, September 6, 2011, 12:14am; Reply: 346
And after you let the veggies sit, then what?
Posted by: passionprincess, Tuesday, September 6, 2011, 12:20am; Reply: 347
Then, I add the spices (almost like tossing a salad and making sure every piece of the veggie has some of the "dressing" on it). It took a little longer to ferment because my kimchee was "dry" but it fermented perfectly. I noticed that I do not have as much "juice" than my other ferments but I only want the fermented veggies so the amount of juice does not really matter.

The nice thing is, no overflowing. It was such a clean process that I am going to let it sit in salt for much longer than before.


Quoted from Drea
And after you let the veggies sit, then what?


Posted by: Drea, Tuesday, September 6, 2011, 12:34am; Reply: 348
Okay, so let me see if I understand your process...first you wash the veggies, leaving a bit of water on them, shred/cut/dice them, salt them, coating as evenly as you can, and let them sit for several hours. Then you add spices, and let them sit for several days? Do you smash them down into the jar like Sandor Katz suggests? Do you add water?

Here's how I've been doing it (before I got the kimchee maker): I wash and shred the veggies, adding them into a large bowl and sprinkling sea salt over them as I go. Then I use my hand to massage the veggies, mixing them together and massaging the salt into them. As I do this, I notice that the veggies are releasing their juices. Then I put the veggies into a jar, packing them down tightly, then put a lid on the jar and walk away ;). I don't have to add extra water.
Posted by: passionprincess, Tuesday, September 6, 2011, 1:04am; Reply: 349
I talked to my mother and followed a traditional Korean lady's kimchee recipe post online. She uses fish paste and msg and the like. Blech.

Both suggested cutting up the veggies first and the washing them (the lady calls it giving the cabbage pieces a shower). Then, you salt it. My glass mixing bowl is small so I try and salt in layers. After a few hours or more, I come back and massage and mix/move the cabbage around so the other side gets salted. Let it sit for several more hours.

The last time I did this, I cut, washed, and salted the veggies after dinner dishes. Then massaged and turned the layers over before bed. Slept... for a good 8 hours or so.

Woke up and then...

Made my kimchee porridge (granny, mom, and the lady all do this) - with 1/4 cup brown rice starter flour (brown rice and kefir - original Korean recipe uses sweet rice and water), 1/4 cup red pepper powder, about 3/4 to 1 cup of sweet apple cider (since I am not using Asian pear... similar to one fruit), 1 garlic and 1 onion... all into the food processor so it mixes nicely (about 2-2.5 cups for 1/2 gallon jar).

Poured the mixture over the salted cabbage and then just put everything into the kimchee jar. If you have some of the spice mixture left over, you can pour some on the bottom of the jar and save some to pour on top of the cabbage leaves before closing the jar.

If you want, you can use a plate, ziploc baggie filled with water or whatnot to push the veggies below liquid level.

Then, you let it sit for a few days.

Koreans do not mash or beat their veggies. They just salt, mix the spices, and put it into the container.

I read somewhere that the veggies release the water and become mushy and then absorb the spices, etc. and become crispy again during the fermentation process. After reading this, I realized why some of the fermentation jars overflow and that is because the veggies were still releasing juices while in the jar. The way I described above makes a drier kimchee. It still has enough liquid but not so much that it would overflow.
Posted by: Drea, Wednesday, September 7, 2011, 1:51am; Reply: 350
Thank you, passionprincess, for the suggestion of using a plastic ziploc bag filled with water to put on top of the veggies to keep them submerged. I also read on another site that if you add a bit of salt to the water in the bag, then if it breaks, the water that leaks out is the same salinity as the brine.

I also found out that the gallon kimchee jar is just the right size to hold a 1-cup glass pyrex bowl (to use intead of the plastic upturned lid that came with the setup), which means now I have two solutions to the problem of not enough veggies to fill up the jar...and I don't have to add extra water. (clap)
Posted by: passionprincess, Wednesday, September 7, 2011, 2:20am; Reply: 351
Drea - I hope it works. :)

My recent cilantro ferments are spilling out because I added extra water - I was too lazy to let it sit in salt for a few hours! It is a bit messy but I am catching all of the juice so it is okay.
Posted by: passionprincess, Wednesday, September 7, 2011, 8:49am; Reply: 352
I just realized that super fermented kimchee (aka sour kimchee as Koreans call it) will taste similar to tomato sauce when pureed. ;D Since tomatoes are avoids and I was looking for a tangy, sour sauce, this calls for another culinary experiment.
Posted by: Drea, Wednesday, September 7, 2011, 2:31pm; Reply: 353
The water bag works great to keep the veggies submerged. I finished off the last of the pink sauerkraut last night, and it was so good, I even drank the "juice". :o :D
Cabbage is a neutral on my swami and sea salt is a superfood. ;D

Unfortunately, I eat fermented veggies like a meal, rather than a condiment. I crave sour/salty flavors much more than sweet. All that salt (even though most of it is digested by the probiotics) is causing water-weight gain in my body. :-/
Posted by: ruthiegirl, Wednesday, September 7, 2011, 5:47pm; Reply: 354
I have my one batch of carrot kraut, but I find I much prefer to drink my probiotics rather than eating them. It's so much easier for me to pour myself some beet kvass a few times a day, rather than having to remember about the carrots when I'm eating a meal. I think I ate the fermented carrots ONCE in the week or so since they've been ready. I'll try to remember to serve them with dinner tonight- I think DD1 will enjoy them.

Meanwhile, I've been going through plenty of beet kvass and enjoying the pickled beets in salad (or by themselves) when it's time to use new beets for a fresh batch. It seems like a much simpler process (no need to take out the food processor and wash it when I'm done) and it's easier for me to get into the routine of it.
Posted by: passionprincess, Wednesday, September 7, 2011, 5:51pm; Reply: 355
I eat the fermented veggies as food, obviously. ;D I mix my rice with kimchee and sardines. A really quick and simple meal. :)
Posted by: Dianne, Thursday, September 8, 2011, 2:07am; Reply: 356
PassionPrincess - If you make a sour Kimchee that can replace tomato sauce  for us folks, you will make many people happy. Keep us posted please!!!

Drea & PassionPrinces - My kombucha tastes like the finest of champagnes! It is suppose to ferment another 2 days in the bottles but we were craving it and so...

Ruthiegirl - How do you make your beet kvass? The recipe I have calls for whey. I used to make it by allowing yogurt to drain and use the whey. Can't have whey now.
Posted by: ruthiegirl, Thursday, September 8, 2011, 6:59pm; Reply: 357
I just use beets, salt, and water. I'll add about a tablespoon of my old batch of beet kvass if I have an old batch and it's good (I've had some batches that weren't quite right, I still drank them, but didn't want to perpetuate that particular flavor.)

With added "starter" it needs about 2 days to ferment on the counter. Without the added starter, it needs 3.
Posted by: Chloe, Thursday, September 8, 2011, 8:57pm; Reply: 358
Quoted from Drea
The water bag works great to keep the veggies submerged. I finished off the last of the pink sauerkraut last night, and it was so good, I even drank the "juice". :o :D
Cabbage is a neutral on my swami and sea salt is a superfood. ;D

Unfortunately, I eat fermented veggies like a meal, rather than a condiment. I crave sour/salty flavors much more than sweet. All that salt (even though most of it is digested by the probiotics) is causing water-weight gain in my body. :-/


You might need to balance that sodium with some high potassium foods.

http://www.naturalnews.com/024539_potassium_sodium_diet.html

http://www.healthaliciousness.com/articles/food-sources-of-potassium.php

Posted by: Drea, Friday, September 9, 2011, 12:33am; Reply: 359
Chloe, I'm glad you're back with us for many reasons, but especially because you give such good advice. :)
Posted by: grey rabbit, Saturday, September 10, 2011, 1:54pm; Reply: 360
So I made some sour pickles. Some of them got hollow, what did I do wrong?
Posted by: Drea, Sunday, September 11, 2011, 4:07am; Reply: 361
Quoted from grey rabbit
So I made some sour pickles. Some of them got hollow, what did I do wrong?

??)

What kind of cukes did you use? I made a batch using persian cukes I found at Costco. They weren't hollow, but they were not crunchy (which was too bad, because I really like crunchy pickles); next time I'll add the grape leaves (we have a lot of grape vines growing here), as apparently that helps them keep their crunch.

I'm new to this, so I'm not sure what happened, grey rabbit. :-/

I just transferred the batch of turnip/carrot/ginger/garlic ferment to smaller jars to keep in the fridge. Yummy. That batch fermented for 5 days in the kimchi maker I bought recently. I realize now that 1 gallon of fermented veggies is just too much for one person. I'm really glad I didn't spend $100 on the 10-Liter crock (that's 2.5 gallons!). :o

Posted by: chrissyA, Wednesday, September 14, 2011, 5:17am; Reply: 362
I happened on this post - because being a type A, I just love vegetables and hippie food, so I had to give it a go. I've just put up my first attempt  using beet, turnip and carrots. Got loads of juice during the squeezing, so much that I had to let a little out because my jars were overflowing - I think that must be a good sign(?). I'm very eager to see how it turns out - it will be hard to wait 4 days or so, but I promise I'll be good. I'm usually pretty good in the kitchen, but... Wish me luck(wink)
Posted by: Lola, Wednesday, September 14, 2011, 5:30am; Reply: 363
:)
Posted by: passionprincess, Wednesday, September 14, 2011, 5:30am; Reply: 364
When Koreans make kimchee, they will wet the veggies (from washing it) and salt t. The veggies sit in the salt for a few hours and then they spice it and bottle it. They do not crush the veggies because they think the life force and cell walls get destroyed. That is how I was taught and saw my mother and granny make all sorts of kimchee.

I use the same technique for veggies and do not crush, at all. The salt pulls out the water in the veggies via osmosis and prevents mold (like Rutheigirl wrote). The spices and remaining juices mix with the veggies and go back into the cell walls of the veggies during the fermentation process. That is why the veggies seem soft and wilted when they are salted or soaked in brine, only to become crunchy again after becoming balanced (perfectly fermented with spices and all).
Posted by: chrissyA, Wednesday, September 14, 2011, 3:19pm; Reply: 365
Hmmm... Maybe I'll try that technique next time :)
Posted by: chrissyA, Monday, September 19, 2011, 3:04pm; Reply: 366
Well... my first batch of cultured veg is ready to eat. I have to say, it's really quite tasty - I had no idea what kind of flavor to expect. I do like pickled foods, but being that cabbage and vinegar are both avoids for me, I've had to give up that flavor profile. So, okay, I used beets, turnips and carrots, and I think next time I will use broccoli stem instead of the turnip. While the overall flavor of the mixture was good, the turnip was a bit pungent for me.
     The funny thing about my experience was, as I was standing there in the kitchen carefully and judiciousy tasting this stuff trying to decide if I actually liked it, before I knew it I had already eaten quite a generous portion. So, yes, I now understand what the fuss is about. So soothing in my Type A tummy! You guys know your stuff - I'm a convert :D
Posted by: Drea, Monday, September 19, 2011, 8:24pm; Reply: 367
Oh, my favorite vegetable ferment is turnips and carrots! I have broccoli stems and carrots fermenting now. :D
Posted by: Goldie, Monday, September 19, 2011, 8:41pm; Reply: 368
this looks so easy.. and fun to boot.. thanks all for the links and info..
Posted by: Drea, Thursday, September 22, 2011, 8:27pm; Reply: 369
I just made a batch of broccoli stems and carrots. Nothing else. I does taste a lot like sauerkraut. I'm going to try a batch of turnips and carrots, and nothing else, to see if it, too, loses the turnip flavor (which I like).
Posted by: Drea, Tuesday, September 27, 2011, 1:21am; Reply: 370
I have a jar of purple carrot and beet juice. Can anyone think how I might make this into a cultered/fermented beverage? I bought it because I like both veggies, but I haven't opened it because drinking it just doesn't "sound" good. :-/
Posted by: passionprincess, Tuesday, September 27, 2011, 1:31am; Reply: 371
If it gets fermented (sour) enough, you can use it as a dressing or marinade base. Add some olive oil, garlic, onions, etc. and you have a light salad dressing.

Quoted from Drea
I have a jar of purple carrot and beet juice. Can anyone think how I might make this into a cultered/fermented beverage? I bought it because I like both veggies, but I haven't opened it because drinking it just doesn't "sound" good. :-/


Posted by: Drea, Tuesday, September 27, 2011, 1:49am; Reply: 372
Thanks PP, but what I was getting at was "how" to turn this into a fermented/cultured beverage.
Posted by: passionprincess, Tuesday, September 27, 2011, 2:16am; Reply: 373
As long as it is not pasteurized, add a bit of salt and let the enzymes get to work. The juice has to be perfectly raw, though.

Quoted from Drea
Thanks PP, but what I was getting at was "how" to turn this into a fermented/cultured beverage.


Posted by: Drea, Tuesday, September 27, 2011, 1:54pm; Reply: 374
Quoted from passionprincess
As long as it is not pasteurized, add a bit of salt and let the enzymes get to work. The juice has to be perfectly raw, though.


Thanks for the reminder...this juice is pasteurized (thanks to the "wonderful" >:( food laws of the USA). I guess I'll either be drinking it, as is, or tossing it, as is. :-/
Posted by: ruthiegirl, Tuesday, September 27, 2011, 2:43pm; Reply: 375
I suppose you could use it as the liquid for other veggie ferments, in place of water.

Or I wonder if you could use it to make water kefir, possibly with the addition of some agave to "feed" the grains if the juice isn't sweet enough on its own.
Posted by: passionprincess, Tuesday, September 27, 2011, 3:19pm; Reply: 376
I totally would try... given my penchant for experimentation. ;D

Ms. Drea??? So, are you going to take the dive? I say go for it and get creative!!!

Quoted from ruthiegirl
I suppose you could use it as the liquid for other veggie ferments, in place of water.

Or I wonder if you could use it to make water kefir, possibly with the addition of some agave to "feed" the grains if the juice isn't sweet enough on its own.


Posted by: Drea, Tuesday, September 27, 2011, 11:40pm; Reply: 377
I don't think it would make good water kefir, and it would be a waste of perfectly good kefir grains.

But...I may try to make kefir kraut, and I could use the juice for that...if I do it, I'll puree the grains with the juice and add it to the turnips...which is something I should do sooner rather than later, as I've just now opened up the jar of juice and the turnips need to be eaten.
Posted by: san j, Wednesday, September 28, 2011, 12:49am; Reply: 378
= cauliflower and courgettes that have read Proust?  :D
Posted by: honeybee, Wednesday, September 28, 2011, 2:15am; Reply: 379
Quoted from san j
= cauliflower and courgettes that have read Proust?  :D


;D(book2) and speak all languages!
Posted by: chrissyA, Monday, October 17, 2011, 5:26pm; Reply: 380
What do you think? In my SWAMI brined foods are a black dot. Wouldn't cultured veg be considered brined? I've been so looking forward to eating piles of veg prepared this way - now I don't know... Please help me with your opinions (think)

Thanks in advance.
Posted by: ruthiegirl, Monday, October 17, 2011, 9:23pm; Reply: 381
Are all brined foods a black dot, or just some of them? For those listed, are the same foods listed "un-brined" with a different rating?

Are there any cultured foods that are neutral or better for you, such as yogurt or kefir? If so, you may do better off  getting your probiotics that way.
Posted by: chrissyA, Tuesday, October 18, 2011, 3:02pm; Reply: 382
Thanks ruthiegirl - The black dot listing is "pickle, brine". My assumption is that any pickled food made in brine (as opposed to pickled in vinegar, which is a complete avoid) will be a black dot. I don't feel it is refering to pickles made with brine, but any food "pickled" in brine, which would be all the wonderul cultured veg.

So if I take, say beets and turnips, and culture them in brine, which is just salt, they then become pickled foods, so, do those foods then become a black dot by merit of preparation? Ugh  :-/

See what I mean?!?! I don't get it  ??)
Posted by: ruthiegirl, Tuesday, October 18, 2011, 4:03pm; Reply: 383
Yeah, it is confusing at times. For all the detail in SWAMI, it simply doesn't list everything and we need to make educated guesses.

Most of the time, "pickles" refers to pickled cucumbers. What's your rating for cucumbers?

I have "pickles, brine" and "pickles, vinegar" as complete avoids, but then cucumbers are a complete avoid for me. I've been consuming beet kvass for years (pre-BTD) and continue doing so, because it keeps my digestion running smoothly, and my digestion suffers when I forget to drink it. So, I've decided, for myself, that I'm going to continue consuming something that's worked for me in the past, especially when I don't have any indications that it's NOT good for me.
Posted by: chrissyA, Tuesday, October 18, 2011, 4:32pm; Reply: 384
Cucumber is neutral...

The first batch of cultured veg I made was so very delicious, and soothing in my stomach, so this really throws me for a loop, I just don't know what to think... Especially since in LR4YT, Dr. D encourages Type A's to pile on the cultured veg as being particularly good for our low acid stomachs. So wouldn't that hold true for my SWAMI...? Ruthiegirl, I'm running myself in circles, somebody make it stop!!!

Thanks for your thoughts, I appreciate it  :)
Posted by: Drea, Tuesday, October 18, 2011, 8:18pm; Reply: 385
Pickles, brine is black dot, though cucumbers are a superfood. Miso and tempeh (both cultured) are diamonds.

I make my own cultured veggies using diamonds and feel great eating them. My choice.

SWAMI is just a guideline (at least that's how I use it).
Posted by: chrissyA, Thursday, April 19, 2012, 3:41pm; Reply: 386
Now that I'm through my wash-out, I can pile on the cultured veg with confidence! My new question is: I want to start a batch of cauliflower and carrots, and I want to cut them in bite-sized chunks. What effect will there be if I blanch the veg first? I have TMJ problems, so I have a little bit of a hard time with chewing raw carrots, and would like them softened just a little bit. Or will the culturing create a slight softening?

I noticed now on the Food Values page, that brine is specifically described as "with vinegar", so I've been holding out all this time for naught! I hope this is a recent addition, and I've not spent this whole time being ridiculous (tongue)
Posted by: ABJoe, Thursday, April 19, 2012, 5:47pm; Reply: 387
Quoted from chrissyA
... brine is specifically described as "with vinegar", so I've been holding out all this time for naught! I hope this is a recent addition, and I've not spent this whole time being ridiculous (tongue)

I doubt that the Typebase descriptions have changed recently...  We often miss little things when we are reading quickly or with something else on our minds...
Posted by: TJ, Friday, April 20, 2012, 7:00pm; Reply: 388
Quoted from chrissyA
Or will the culturing create a slight softening?
It will soften your veggies.
Posted by: chrissyA, Sunday, April 22, 2012, 1:24am; Reply: 389
Thanks TJ  :)
Posted by: chrissyA, Wednesday, April 25, 2012, 12:35am; Reply: 390
The fermentation crocks are so cool! I just wish they came in something smaller than 5 liters. But just as well - then I'd have to justify spending that kind of $$$ on something I don't really need  (tongue)
Posted by: Drea, Friday, July 27, 2012, 3:13am; Reply: 391
I have a fermenting question that I also posted on another thread...

I have a batch of sauerkraut that is almost done, but I'm leaving on a 5 day trip tomorrow. Should I leave it to do its thing while I'm away or should I put it in the fridge before I leave?

What happens (if anything) to the fermentation process if it is left too long, or is that a silly question?
Posted by: 815 (Guest), Friday, July 27, 2012, 1:17pm; Reply: 392
Quoted from Drea
I have a fermenting question that I also posted on another thread...

I have a batch of sauerkraut that is almost done, but I'm leaving on a 5 day trip tomorrow. Should I leave it to do its thing while I'm away or should I put it in the fridge before I leave?

What happens (if anything) to the fermentation process if it is left too long, or is that a silly question?


Put it in the fridge, unless you have someone to come and do it for you in a day or two.  I think after awhile it will go bad leaving it out or turn into mush..

I can't tolerate fermented vegetables. I've given up making them. They upset my stomach... I have sauerkraut as an avoid.
Posted by: ruthiegirl, Friday, July 27, 2012, 9:17pm; Reply: 393
The veggies will soften when fermented, but only to a certain degree. You might do better grating the veggies (making a carrot/cauliflower "slaw") rather than cutting them into chunks if chewing is a problem.

I've never attempted to ferment cooked vegetables, nor have I seen any recipes doing so. I honestly don't know if it would ferment properly or if it would go bad. It may be something to experiment with later, but I suggest starting with raw veggies so you get a feel for how it's supposed to work before making changes. If nothing else, blanched veggies would REQUIRE some sort of starter (polyflora capsule or a bit from an old  batch) since the "wild cultures" would be destroyed in the blanching process.
Posted by: honeybee, Tuesday, October 16, 2012, 3:43am; Reply: 394
I got my hands on some fermented veg this week - trying them now with a nori hand roll.
I gather they are meant to have a sour-ish taste/scent, 'tangy' is the word lol, which was weird at first bite, but I am heading back for seconds. Salty!

Mine are sweet potato, carrot, ginger & chilli, pro-biotic cultures & Himalayan salt - made locally and tested for safety too.
Posted by: ruthiegirl, Tuesday, October 16, 2012, 3:45pm; Reply: 395
Sounds yummy!
Posted by: chrissyA, Tuesday, October 16, 2012, 4:46pm; Reply: 396
Okay, Drea, I've been fermenting for a year now, so I was able to justify the splurge. I broke down and bought one of those fancy-schmancy fermentation crocks... OMG girlfriend!!! I have to say it's the best money I've spent in a while :) I got the smallest one they make - 5 litre - which sounded way too big, but surprisingly, it seems just about right, and of course you can fill it to any level you want, it doesn't have to be filled all the way. There's no overflow of liquid, so it can sit on the counter without making a mess, and you don't have to check the liquid level because there is a channel around the lid that you put water in so it is airtight while allowing the gasses to escape, so it's self-burping, if you will :P And last but not least, it's really attractive, so it looks discrete and nice on the countertop.
     I highly recommend it. I know they're a lot of money, but... Nice  :) :D ;D
Posted by: Drea, Tuesday, October 16, 2012, 5:40pm; Reply: 397
Quoted from chrissyA
Okay, Drea, I've been fermenting for a year now, so I was able to justify the splurge. I broke down and bought one of those fancy-schmancy fermentation crocks... OMG girlfriend!!! I have to say it's the best money I've spent in a while :) I got the smallest one they make - 5 litre - which sounded way too big, but surprisingly, it seems just about right, and of course you can fill it to any level you want, it doesn't have to be filled it all the way. There's no overflow of liquid, so it can sit on the counter without making a mess, and you don't have to check the liquid level because there is a channel around the lid that you put water in so it is airtight while allowing the gasses to escape, so it's self-burping, if you will :P And last but not least, it's really attractive, so it looks discrete and nice on the countertop.
     I highly recommend it. I know they're a lot of money, but... Nice  :) :D ;D


Thanks for the review! I still want one, but other things take ($) priority.
Posted by: 815 (Guest), Tuesday, October 16, 2012, 5:55pm; Reply: 398
Quoted from 815

I can't tolerate fermented vegetables. I've given up making them. They upset my stomach... I have sauerkraut as an avoid.


Well I have to amend this statement. I was just reading on healing with fermented vegies and they said if you have a bad overgrowth that the die off will be toxic for awhile so it's best to add them to the diet by the tsp full. If you react, then wait till you feel better then add another tsp until you can tolerate that then slowly increase it by another tsp. I didn't know that. Dr. D said I had an overgrowth of bad bacteria in my stomach. So I think I was experiencing the die off.. I'm going to go back on them, and follow the tsp rule.  :) It's time for fermented broccoli...!
Posted by: chrissyA, Tuesday, October 16, 2012, 8:09pm; Reply: 399
That's the spirit Mayflowers! The first time I ate fermented veg I became pretty bloated and gassy :B  But that stopped happening after eating it only a couple of times. I would expect that it is the die-off. Now I can eat piles if it with no problems. I find it feels very soothing in my stomach :)
Posted by: Drea, Tuesday, October 16, 2012, 9:38pm; Reply: 400
chrissyA, please share with us some of your "recipes" that you've been using in your new crock! :D You might inspire me, who knows?
Posted by: honeybee, Tuesday, October 16, 2012, 10:51pm; Reply: 401
I would like to attempt my own too now that I have tried what they are supposed to taste and feel like, I have a benchmark. Before it was all guesswork.
Posted by: chrissyA, Wednesday, October 17, 2012, 12:18am; Reply: 402
Why certainly Drea - Thanks for asking... ;D

http://divinehealthfromtheinsideout.com/2011/02/lacto-fermented-asian-veggie-medley/
http://awesomepickle.com/tag/salt-brine/
http://littlehouseinthesuburbs.com/2011/06/lacto-fermented-dill-baby-carrots.html
http://www.affairsofliving.com/imported-20100106014405/2011/5/19/cultured-curried-carrot-sticks-gluten-free-acd.html

I've omitted the whey when called for :)

I've got the asian medley going right now - it smelled super funky at first, I thought I'd have to put it outside :X, but now that it's mellowed for about a week, it's starting to smell very promising :D

Since I've spent so much money on that crock, it's got to earn it's keep :P  I've been Googling and searching like a fiend looking for stuff that looks interesting. I've found zillions of great sites, but I haven't had a chance to try very many. I can only do a new batch every two weeks - I let my ferments go for two weeks because my kitchen isn't very warm, even in the summer.
Posted by: Drea, Wednesday, October 17, 2012, 1:09am; Reply: 403
I don't have a "fancy" crock, but I've made some tasty ferments over the past months...my all-time fave is thinly sliced turnips, green onions, ginger, carrots, and a little cayenne; technically, cayenne is an avoid, but I live in New Mexico ;).

When cabbage was just a neutral (it's back to being an avoid on my SWAMI), I made many batches of sauerkraut.
Posted by: chrissyA, Wednesday, October 17, 2012, 3:37am; Reply: 404
I've learned a lot following your thread... ;)
Posted by: Drea, Wednesday, October 17, 2012, 4:03am; Reply: 405
Did I share my fiasco attempting a fermented peach chutney?
Posted by: chrissyA, Wednesday, October 17, 2012, 11:11pm; Reply: 406
No, please do tell...(hehe)
Posted by: Drea, Thursday, October 18, 2012, 12:01am; Reply: 407
I found a recipe for lacto-fermneted peach chutney (scroll down to near bottom), and our peach tree was overloaded with fruit this year, so I thought that was a good use for them.

All the ingredients sounded lovely together, so I made 1-1/2 gallons of chutney and set it to do its thing. I tasted the batch after 2 days and thought it was very good but could use an extra day. Not true. That extra day made it go from pretty darn good, but still salty, to tasting (and smelling) like sour stomach. I just couldn't toss it (in the beginning), so I rinsed a batch, then added it to a skillet, added agave, and cooked it. Nope. Still sour stomach. In the end, the whole thing went into the compost. So sad.

So if you decide to try it, let me know how it turned out. Not sure what happened on my end. I'm burned out on peaches for this year, and have 5 quarts of peaches I "canned" in water to tied me over until next year.
Posted by: chrissyA, Thursday, October 18, 2012, 11:31pm; Reply: 408
Ah, the unexpected outcome... :-/  I guess the bright side is that you didn't spend money on them :B
Posted by: chrissyA, Thursday, October 25, 2012, 2:04pm; Reply: 409
Quoted from chrissyA
I've got the asian medley going right now - it smelled super funky at first, I thought I'd have to put it outside , but now that it's mellowed for about a week, it's starting to smell very promising

The Asian Medley is finished fermenting. It turned out to be very delicious(yay!), a little garlicky for my taste, but in all fairness, I'm not a fan of garlic... :P Even so, I won't have any problem eating the whole batch  :)

I also did a small batch of horseradish, because fresh just isn't practical, and the only jarred I've found is made with vinegar  :( I grated it finely and let it ferment for four days. It was perfect! The flavor is milder than I expected, but that's good because, of course, horseradish can be overpowering. I was a little afraid that by fermenting it, the flavor might become to a bit sour, but with only leaving it for so short a time, there was no change in the taste of it. Good  :)
Posted by: 815 (Guest), Thursday, October 25, 2012, 2:09pm; Reply: 410
I'll have to try the horseradish.. I love it thanks.  The easiest recipe for an A I think is to just buy a bag of julienned broccoli and carrots and just dump them in a bowl, add salt, and mix and squeeze and then when it's got enough liquid, to stuff it into the jar and let it sit.  I can't have cabbage..it's an avoid.\

I never heard of fermenting fruit Drea. Is that possible? I would think it would turn into  vinegar and then alcohol instead of a pickle. Exception would be pickled lemons that I used to eat with my Indian food. Yummy. And did you know that if you get pregnant, and you have eaten the lemon pickle before that, if you are having a son, you will crave lemon pickle during  your first trimester. My ex told me that and said it's very common to know in India.  I craved lemon pickle with both sons... that's so weird.
Posted by: 815 (Guest), Thursday, October 25, 2012, 3:01pm; Reply: 411
Quoted from Andrea AWsec
I use bok choy it is like cabbage but OK for A's and maybe for every blood type?


When the SWAMI says to avoid Pickle, brine    
Does that mean to avoid fermented vegetables or just cucumbers :-/ ?  I'm still confused.   ??)
Posted by: chrissyA, Thursday, October 25, 2012, 3:23pm; Reply: 412
Quoted from Mayflowers
I never heard of fermenting fruit Drea. Is that possible?

It sounds improbable to me as well, but they say it works :P Drea has tried it.
http://divinehealthfromtheinsideout.com/2010/07/smoky-peach-salsa-lacto-fermented/
Posted by: chrissyA, Thursday, October 25, 2012, 3:31pm; Reply: 413
Quoted from Mayflowers
When the SWAMI says to avoid Pickle, brine    
Does that mean to avoid fermented vegetables or just cucumbers  ?  I'm still confused.

Mayflowers - I had that same dilemma a while ago... But the Typebase specifically states that pickle brine is vinegar based - hooray  :D

http://www.dadamo.com/typebase4/depictor5.pl?304
Posted by: 815 (Guest), Thursday, October 25, 2012, 3:40pm; Reply: 414
Quoted from chrissyA

Mayflowers - I had that same dilemma a while ago... But the Typebase specifically states that pickle brine is vinegar based - hooray  :D

http://www.dadamo.com/typebase4/depictor5.pl?304


Thanks..however, my SWAMI says  Pickle, brine  and   it says Pickle, vinegar. Both are avoids and the brine is a black dot..:(  
Well the good news is the basic brine pickle is neutral for secretors.. I'll just have to ask when I go back for a check up.
Posted by: chrissyA, Thursday, October 25, 2012, 4:06pm; Reply: 415
That's what mine says too... To be vigilant, I avoided cultured veg for the duration on my wash-out, but now I eat piles of the stuff  :D
Posted by: 815 (Guest), Thursday, October 25, 2012, 4:27pm; Reply: 416
Quoted from chrissyA
That's what mine says too... To be vigilant, I avoided cultured veg for the duration on my wash-out, but now I eat piles of the stuff  :D


I'm going to start again. I'm going to make some bok choy and start eating it.. Unless I hear from Dr. D ....  :D    
Posted by: ruthiegirl, Friday, October 26, 2012, 3:33pm; Reply: 417
This thread has been here for a long time, and he never once popped in to say that any of us were doing things wrong. He's responded to other threads, so I know he's been at least skimming the boards, so I assume he's aware of this thread and is OK with it.
Posted by: Rev144, Friday, October 26, 2012, 8:29pm; Reply: 418
Thanks for the wonderful thread!!!  

I am fermenting my veggies.... However I was taught that you need to let them ferment for 4 weeks. This is because they dont totally ferment in a  few days.  
On my counter I have a jar of carrot sticks, carrot shreds/garlic, 2 cucumbers, 2 sauerkraut , a mixture of squash/peppers/cucumbers/onions , 2 jars of beets and 3 jars of oriental cucumbers. .
My eight weeks is up now.   Here is how I did it.
I used Fido jars with the locking lid.  
I put my veggies in the Fido,
put  a grape leave on the top and
filled the  jar with salt brine (1 tablespoon of Redmonds Real Salt to 2 pints of water.)
I closed the lid and put it on the counter.
the fido lid will gas itself .  So there is no need to burp the jar. One of the beet jars does not have a grape leave in it.  Absolutely no slime on top!

My oldest jars have been on the counter since 8/25.  Since I do not open the jars, no air gets in and they dont have any mold.  I am moving them to the fridge this weekend.  I cant do a taste taste this week because of a special detox diet I am on for the next 10 days.  I cant wait!!

On this web site, the lady has all kinds of fermenting experiments on the different jars used - which ones worked and which ones did not. (look on the right hand side for links to different studies she has done.  http://www.nourishingtreasures.com/
One study she had used the Pickle It jar... It is a fido jar with a gas lock on top.  Her fido ferment turned out better than her pickle it jar ferment.  The thing is, the pickle it jar cost like 25.00 for one and the same size fido jar cost 5.00.  


Here is where I got my Fido Jars http://www.crateandbarrel.com/search.aspx?query=fido
They have them on special right now,  and you can buy all kinds of sizes. They also have a special on shipping for 4.95.  The lady who's web site is above says to go to the Christmas Tree Shop and pick up the Fido jars even cheaper.
Posted by: grey rabbit, Friday, October 26, 2012, 11:55pm; Reply: 419
I had a Fido jar and it worked great for about two months. Then it stopped working, the lid will not stay closed, the wire will not stay in the groove and the jar is useless  :( :( :(
Posted by: wanthanee, Thursday, November 15, 2012, 5:03am; Reply: 420
:D Please view the video on this link.  It goes along with the below listed ingredients and instructions:

http://library.cmu.ac.th/ntic/lannafood/method_clip.php?id=180

http://library.cmu.ac.th/ntic/lannafood/detail_lannafood.php?id_food=180

This is the old fashioned way to make cultured vegetables Thai style.

The first ingredient is green vegetables –mustard greens (300 g)

The second ingredient is cooked sticky rice (use 1 tablespoon of rice)

You can buy this from a Thai restaurant.   1 order will be about $2.00.  You need only a little.  You can store the rest in the freezer for next time.   You may be able to use cooked white rice but I have never tried.  

The third ingredient is 1 tablespoon of salt (can be any kind).

Forth ingredient : 1 cup of water.  The video shows water from soaked sticky rice (you normally have to soak the sticky rice in water overnight before cooking the rice) but you can just use regular water.

Instructions on how to make:
Massage vegetables with cooked sticky rice until rice is broken down.  Then add salt then massage together for a few minute.  Then put water or soaked-rice water, then cover and put away for 2 days.  It will be ready to eat when the taste is sour.  Then you can refrigerate.

http://www.dadamo.com/B2blogs/blogs/index.php/2000/05/21/where-can-we-get-some-culture-1?blog=9

:D
Posted by: Mickey, Sunday, December 9, 2012, 10:38pm; Reply: 421
I started a veggie ferment about a week ago, after about 4 days i noticed that it was above the liquid (i hadn't looked at it for a couple of days because i got busy).  I put it in the frig. today, do you think it's safe to eat?.  I smelled it and it doesn't smell rotten.

Thanks!
Posted by: honeybee, Monday, December 10, 2012, 3:07am; Reply: 422
I read about fermented almond 'pate' today... cultured nut spread, who'd a' thought?
Has anyone seen Portlandia, esp that 'Pickle It' scene??  ;D
Posted by: chrissyA, Monday, December 10, 2012, 3:48am; Reply: 423
Mickey - The veg will still be good. If there's mold, simple remove what is affected and the rest  will be fine. I let my veg "culture" for two weeks!  But take it out of the fridge - that will slow the fermentation almost to a halt. What you want to do is add enough brine to re-immerse the vegetables. One Tbsp salt  to 2 cups of water, so the water is once again above the veg.
     Re-post if you have any more questions  :)
    
Posted by: cajun, Tuesday, December 11, 2012, 7:31pm; Reply: 424
I don't ferment, but for those of you who do I just saw this in the Williams Sonoma
holiday book.....A lovely fermentation pot/traditional crock for $79.95 and a farmhouse culture crock , 16 oz. with silicone lid for $9.95.
Posted by: chrissyA, Tuesday, December 11, 2012, 11:44pm; Reply: 425
Cajun - That's the fermentation crock I have. It's great, but if any one decides to get one, be certain to get the weights as well, as they are not automatically included, but they are necessary.  :)
Posted by: Melissa_J, Sunday, December 30, 2012, 12:08am; Reply: 426
I'm getting ready to start fermenting and have read this whole thread.  I'm debating between a pickl-it or a 2 1/2 quart crock on etsy for $55.  I want to use a sealed anaerobic system because of my son's health I want to be extra sure it has only the right organisms thriving in there... And because I'm new to this and want to make sure it's goof proof.  I've successfully fermented dosa batter, but that is my only success, and I've never attempted vegetables.  My son loves pickles, so this is the way to make them healthy for him (he's an A).  I know lactic acid is really good for As and I think probiotics are a missing piece for my son's health.  Plus fermentation reduces the fructose and sugar content of foods, which is a plus for him as we'll.  

It seems everyone I know with severe leaky gut issues also craves sour and tangy flavors, and I think there is some wisdom in that if those were originally fermented instead of vinegar laden.

I'll be growing a garden this year, and if I can ferment some of the harvest, there are more things I'd like to put in the garden.  I don't know where to find pickling cucumbers otherwise.
Posted by: san j, Sunday, December 30, 2012, 12:14am; Reply: 427
Cultured vegetables speak French and know Art.
Otherwise it's all just a crock.
Posted by: Melissa_J, Sunday, December 30, 2012, 12:15am; Reply: 428
Oh, I also want to ferment mustard, anybody tried it?
Posted by: Drea, Sunday, December 30, 2012, 5:59am; Reply: 429
Quoted from Melissa_J
I'm getting ready to start fermenting and have read this whole thread.  I'm debating between a pickl-it or a 2 1/2 quart crock on etsy for $55.


I don't have either of those, but even a fido jar works well...they are self-burping (so I'm told), but keep the "visitors" out. You can burp them each day, if you are concerned. They are much cheaper than the other two you mentioned. I also do a lot of fermenting in glass gallon jars, using an airlock...

I didn't do this one, but found the information useful: DIY Crock
Posted by: Melissa_J, Sunday, December 30, 2012, 8:34am; Reply: 430
Thanks!  I saw those airlocks on amazon but wasn't sure how to attach them, figured I'd just get one pickl-it and then reverse engineer it a bit.  
Posted by: Drea, Sunday, December 30, 2012, 2:54pm; Reply: 431
The airlocks work great! And they are inexpensive, to boot. I bought my setup from Cultures for Health, which included the modified wide mouth jar lid and grommet/airlock.
Posted by: Drea, Sunday, December 30, 2012, 7:06pm; Reply: 432
THIS looks intriguing!
Posted by: sunnyside, Saturday, August 10, 2013, 2:08am; Reply: 433
Sauerkraut is black dot on my SWAMI.

Does this mean all fermented vegetables are black dot for me?
I am eating kimchi because I can not have a yogurt or kefir.
Posted by: Drea, Saturday, August 10, 2013, 2:55am; Reply: 434
What is the rating for cabbage for you, sunnyside? I make fermented carrots and ginger, fermented turnips, and I've made fermented broccoli stems, too. All those veggies are beneficials, whereas cabbage is an avoid. I consider homemade fermented veggies, using nothing but salt and veggies to be okay for me, though I'm not battling any illness or weight.
Posted by: yaeli, Saturday, August 10, 2013, 3:40am; Reply: 435
Quoted from Drea
I make fermented carrots and ginger, fermented turnips
Drea, how long does it take you to ferment these?

Do you put the jar in a dark place or do cover it, or do you just leave it in the light in daytime?

Posted by: sunnyside, Saturday, August 10, 2013, 4:22pm; Reply: 436
Drea, I was using napa cabbage and I just realized cabbage is black dot.

There are different strain of bacteria in Polyflora for each blood type and bacteria in fermenting vegetable may be not good for Type A.

Tempeh and Tamari are diamond and I am going to stay with it until I know more.
Posted by: Drea, Saturday, August 10, 2013, 4:29pm; Reply: 437
I use salt as my fermenting method: slice or shred the veggies, put into a bowl, add salt and mix/knead with my hands until the veggies release their own juices. Then I stuff into a glass jar and push the veggies down until the juice has risen to cover, put on a lid (tight-fitting) with an airlock, and put in a dark place. In my elevation/heat, it usually takes 3 days to reach the amount of sour I like. If you don't have an airlock, Fido jars work well. Just make sure to burp the jar, daily.

Wild Fermentation by Sandor Katz is a book I recommend.
Posted by: yaeli, Saturday, August 10, 2013, 4:35pm; Reply: 438
Thanks!  :)
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