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BTD Forums  /  Live Right 4 Your Type  /  Nonnies and Leaky Gut (intestinal Alkaline Phosphi
Posted by: Symbi, Saturday, January 23, 2010, 1:48am
Was searching internet for IAP and found this interesting abstract:

http://www.pnas.org/content/105/9/3551.abstract

It says that Intestinal alkaline phosphatase is a gut mucosal defense factor maintained by enteral nutrition (feeding into the stomach).  

From this it makes me wonder a few things:

First, it's interesting that they've been using enteral feeding for many years without understanding how it works.  They noticed that it worked better than an IV I guess.  Imagine how much more we will know in even 10 years?

Since IAP levels are lower in nonnies (http://drpeterjdadamo.com/wiki/wiki.pl/Intestinal_Alkaline_Phosphatase_%28IAP%29), is this one of the reasons why nonnies are more prone to leaky gut?  

Quoted Text
It is likely that the IAP silencing that occurs during starvation is a key component of the gut mucosal barrier dysfunction seen in critically ill patients.


Well I never like to fast (reactive hypoglacemia) and wonder if nonnies should never fast.  If fasting inactivates your IAP and lowers your stomach mucosal defences, doesn't sound like a good idea to me.  

Yikes!  In the next few days I have to go on a low residue and then a liquid diet before my colonoscopy so wish me luck!  Will be making some green juices recipees I got off you guys and straining them (in the blender).  Will get a juicer hopefully at a later stage!

Just looked through some blood tests and see that my Serum Alkaline Phosphitase is always low.  Normal range is 30 - 115.  Mine has been: 50 in Dec,40 in Aug, 51 in May, 45 in Dec.  Strange hey.  Wikipedia says that it's not commonly low http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alkaline_phosphatase.  Sounds like further proof of non-secretorhood.  Will become a card carrying member soon (confirm) promise.

Any other nonnies know their serum Alk Phosp results to compare?  
Posted by: Lola, Saturday, January 23, 2010, 9:09am; Reply: 1
let s find out your secretor status first! :)
Posted by: Possum, Saturday, January 23, 2010, 10:20am; Reply: 2
Yikes!  In the next few days I have to go on a low residue and then a liquid diet before my colonoscopy so wish me luck!  Will be making some green juices recipees I got off you guys and straining them (in the blender).  Will get a juicer hopefully at a later stage! Goodluck with that!!! ;) Been wondering how you were going... :-/
Those Magic Bullet type blenders that you can get in Woolworths & Discount stores are real cheap but go well... I've had one for over a year & made great "smooth" smoothies  & even ground nuts in mine... :)
Posted by: Lloyd, Saturday, January 23, 2010, 12:56pm; Reply: 3
Quoted from Symbi


Just looked through some blood tests and see that my Serum Alkaline Phosphitase is always low.  Normal range is 30 - 115.  Mine has been: 50 in Dec,40 in Aug, 51 in May, 45 in Dec.  Strange hey.  Wikipedia says that it's not commonly low http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alkaline_phosphatase.  Sounds like further proof of non-secretorhood.  Will become a card carrying member soon (confirm) promise.

Any other nonnies know their serum Alk Phosp results to compare?  


Serum Alkaline phosphatase does not predict Intetinal Alkaline phosphatase.

Posted by: Symbi, Sunday, January 24, 2010, 1:27am; Reply: 4
Quoted from Possum
Yikes!  In the next few days I have to go on a low residue and then a liquid diet before my colonoscopy so wish me luck!  Will be making some green juices recipees I got off you guys and straining them (in the blender).  Will get a juicer hopefully at a later stage! Goodluck with that!!! ;) Been wondering how you were going... :-/
Those Magic Bullet type blenders that you can get in Woolworths & Discount stores are real cheap but go well... I've had one for over a year & made great "smooth" smoothies  & even ground nuts in mine... :)


Hi Possum,  Yep it's finally happening, I can't wait to get it over with.  That's great that you're getting blended, I mean using your blender.  ;D So far, I've made breadcrumbs and milkshakes.  I tried to make green juice one day but didn't realise you need to add liquid!  ::) :B
So the lettuce just sat there and the blades spun furiously at nothing!  lol  Well I didn't know!

Going to make some homemade chicken soup (to strain off), homemade lemon cordial (can't get any cordial without preservatives  ::) for my liquid diet.  I have some glutamine powder to help the gut repair process after the procedure too.  I'm also having a gastroscopy, looking down the throat and that scares me more to swallow something down there, more than the other!

Lola, I'll get my blood test soon honest, just been avoiding the doctors (and busy with DD at home) cos I've felt too good to go there lately  :)  



Posted by: Possum, Sunday, January 24, 2010, 4:10am; Reply: 5
Quoted from Symbi
Hi Possum,  Yep it's finally happening, I can't wait to get it over with.  That's great that you're getting blended, I mean using your blender.  ;D So far, I've made breadcrumbs and milkshakes.  I tried to make green juice one day but didn't realise you need to add liquid!  ::) :B
So the lettuce just sat there and the blades spun furiously at nothing!  lol  Well I didn't know! lol!! Sort of thing I would do!!
Going to make some homemade chicken soup (to strain off), homemade lemon cordial (can't get any cordial without preservatives  ::) for my liquid diet.  I have some glutamine powder to help the gut repair process after the procedure too.  I'm also having a gastroscopy, looking down the throat and that scares me more to swallow something down there, more than the other! Eeek Hope it isn't too uncomfortable ??)
Lola, I'll get my blood test soon honest, just been avoiding the doctors (and busy with DD at home) cos I've felt too good to go there lately  :) Good you've been feeling well - I thought when we hadn't heard anything for a while that you weren't too good...
All the best!! Look forward to sharing the news!! ;)

Posted by: Symbi, Sunday, January 24, 2010, 11:48pm; Reply: 6
Thanks Possum, I'll be spilling my guts on here about the news.   ;D Hopefully just IBS not something worse (runs in my family  ::)) hey that's a double meaning accidental!  :)

We've been really busy with my Mum coming to stay with us for a week.  We had a great time at the zoo and jamming music.  I had one vodka and raspberry cordial - I think the preservatives didn't agree with me!   :P ;) Can't believe all cordials have preservatives.  Made some lemon cordial last night - so I can have popsicles when on the liquid diet.  :) Now I'm on a low residue diet.  Fibre (hand)(naughty)

Well if anyone can adapt to changing their diet, us BTD/GTD'ers are brilliant at it.  It's kind of fun. Won't be able to do GTD as well at this time though.  :(

At the same time we're getting used to hubby working nights and I'm preparing for G to start school on the day before the colonoscopy (Wednesday).  Mixed feelings on that one   ;D:) :-/ :'( :X.  You should see how big the backpack looks on her! precious.
Posted by: Amazone I., Wednesday, January 27, 2010, 7:39am; Reply: 7
Symbi, how was the examination??) Hope all went well and you are ok right now :D...
Posted by: Symbi, Wednesday, January 27, 2010, 10:28am; Reply: 8
Thanks gentle, sweet amazone.  I'm on a liquid diet only today and will be having the procedure tomorrow, will let you all know how it goes.  Will be glad to get it all over and done with.  :)
Posted by: Possum, Wednesday, January 27, 2010, 10:30am; Reply: 9
All the best!! Jokes flying still I see  ;D I could say we will be waiting with baited breath - or is that held breath?? ??)
Posted by: Kumar, Sunday, February 21, 2010, 8:51am; Reply: 10
Lyod,

Do you mean that there are no studies or findings correlating IAP with SAP? Though they are not the same thing, sure, can they not be correlated at all? One suspected nonny that I have in my circle too has SAP as low as 28 (the range is 33 to 115): is it just a coincidence? I tend to suspect that though they are two different things, they could be correlated well. Any idea as to how we measure IAP? Thanks for sharing ideas.
Posted by: Lloyd, Sunday, February 21, 2010, 3:26pm; Reply: 11
You could try your hand from this search page or do your own: LINK

One of the linked pages is: LINK that may be the quickest info.
Posted by: Chandon, Sunday, February 21, 2010, 4:11pm; Reply: 12
Good luck with the procedures, Symbi. I know what you mean about the upper GI procedure. It sounds scary. They gave me a very mild sedative. I was definitely not aware of swallowing it at all nor aware of the procedure and then it was all finished. I haven't had a colonoscopy. I nearly did this summer, but promptly started the Teacher diet and found all my symptoms went away--even while I was on the wrong diet. My latest SWAMI is such a blend of the Teacher and Explorer diet, that I was still on the right track with the Teacher diet, when it comes to gut healing.

When I was doing the Explorer diet by the book, I was having GI problems. For me, it may have been due to certain avoids I didn't want to give up. Maybe for you, getting your secretor status and your SWAMI will really give you the tools you need to get rid of the IBS. I had had diverticulitis and thought it was coming back, but then they said it was likely just spasm. The things that probably contributed to it for me were spicy foods (hot chilies in various forms), tomatoes, and coconut milk. Plus I was drinking milk. You probably aren't eating those things on your diet. However, maybe it was all the whey protein I was using? That is now a toxin for me.
Posted by: Amazone I., Sunday, February 21, 2010, 6:47pm; Reply: 13
:o :o :o being an explorer and havin to pass such examinations with all those meds.. people... I don't think it's valuable... better to go for the ultrasounds... much better for us !!!(pray)(scared)(hand)(worried)....
when I went with my ebf for all his treatments and tests, I really got nearly scrared.... if once upon the days I'd have to follow such a ??) whatever... I'll die coz of the treatments first... for sure ...yiiikes... :o :B >:((shrug)and they won't believe me, as usual... (blush)(dizzy)(scared)

hey madls and guyen...tell me a bit more about your stories of ok for meds...or better not??) !! .....nearly all allopathic meds are justamente doing the opposite to me... the same for you???
Once upon the times I tried only the half of a medication called Temesta sublingual... only the half... but yesses... I saw myselve walking beside... isn't that ::) and how can others support such a medication??)...(eek)(eek)... but for me it was only a test.. how those things work... but incroyable... really I can't be such a measurement parameter ;) ;D ;D....(funny)(funny)(constipated)(hand)(think)(bunny)(naughty).....

sorry if I hogtied the thread right now...(blush)(shrug)but it came out naturally coz of the test of Symbi to pass... I still suffer with her... really I do.... :-/ :P :X
Posted by: Symbi, Monday, February 22, 2010, 6:42am; Reply: 14
Hi Chandon and Amazone!

Thanks for the messages.  On another thread I posted the whole story as a therapy ::) :).  Sorry I didn't think to update this one.  It all went well, was a little stressful as it was also the first week of school for my one and only little girl, ever.  We got through it.  I was asleep and didn't feel a thing.  They fixed up the hemorroids and diagnosed me with IBS and didn't find anything wrong down the throat (still waiting for biopsy results now though).  I'd gotten over reflux many months before on the BTD but by the time I got through the waiting list - gone! Diet is so powerful!

IBS can be improved through diet and IMHO is like a waste basket diagnosis (when they can't think of what is wrong with you!).  Mine is worse at the time of the month.  So could be gynaecological or hormonal and probably food intolerances too.  Will try the diet fully and see if that helps.

Chandon - that's great that you didn't have to go through a procedure and healed yourself and you're on the right diet now.  Glad that SWAMI is working for you.  Those pesky avoids that we don't want to let go of, I'm giving up wheat at the moment now the tests have been done.  The fact that I don't want to give it up tells me that it's addictive!  
I'm waiting for a secretor blood and saliva test kit to arrive in the mail.  Very excited!  Then after that Genotype kit and SWAMI for me.  :)

Isa - these big procedures and tests and being in a hospital where things can go wrong is probably not good for anyone.  Like I've seen you say before, anything we can do to avoid the white coated is good!  Made it through this time and with all of your support and Dr D's blueprint, I'll be doing my best not to go back to a hospital for a long time!  :)
Posted by: Victoria, Monday, February 22, 2010, 7:09pm; Reply: 15
Quoted from Possum

Those Magic Bullet type blenders that you can get in Woolworths & Discount stores are real cheap but go well... I've had one for over a year & made great "smooth" smoothies  & even ground nuts in mine... :)


Have you tried making almond butter in them yet?  
Posted by: TJ, Monday, February 22, 2010, 9:48pm; Reply: 16
Quoted from Symbi
IBS can be improved through diet and IMHO is like a waste basket diagnosis (when they can't think of what is wrong with you!).
Sometimes I've wondered if depression is like that too.
Posted by: Symbi, Sunday, March 28, 2010, 9:06am; Reply: 17
Resurrecting this thread again...

Now I'm a confirmed nonnie (glad to be sure and it explains alot!), I've been reading up on nonniehood.  I see new information in the Scientific basis about serum IAP under "Metabolic and Immunologic Consequences of ABH Secretor Status"

Quoted Text
Intestinal Alkaline Phosphatase Activity

The activity of intestinal alkaline phosphatase and serum alkaline phosphatase is strongly correlated with ABH secretor phenotypes.  Independent of ABO blood group, ABH non-secretors have lower alkaline phosphatase activity than ABH secretors. It has been estimated that the serum alkaline phosphatase activity of non-secretors is only about 20% of the activity in the secretor groups. (7-10)  


It's talking about serum IAP.  So I wonder if for people, especially Type As, like Kumar, who are having trouble accessing lewis and secretor tests, whether serum IAP can help guess their secretor status.  Being an A and a nonnie gives me the lowest IAP and that fits with my blood results.  (I'll pass on the fat, thanks)  :P ;)
Posted by: Symbi, Sunday, March 28, 2010, 9:14am; Reply: 18
Quoted from Symbi

Since IAP levels are lower in nonnies (http://drpeterjdadamo.com/wiki/wiki.pl/Intestinal_Alkaline_Phosphatase_%28IAP%29), is this one of the reasons why nonnies are more prone to leaky gut?  .....

Well I never like to fast (reactive hypoglacemia) and wonder if nonnies should never fast.  If fasting inactivates your IAP and lowers your stomach mucosal defences, doesn't sound like a good idea to me.  


Also found this info on how nonnies can't turn off their stomach digestion.  Might explain why fasting is difficult.

Quoted Text

Duodenal ulcer

Duodenal ulcer patients are more likely to be non-secretors, and being a non-secretor acts to multiply the activity of a separate gene for the excessive production of the enzyme pepsin. Thus non-secretors have a harder time turning off many of their digestive enzymes and because of this have a higher risk of duodenal ulcer. http://www.drpeterjdadamo.com/wiki/wiki.pl/Haplogroup_M_%28mtDNA%29/Welcome/Secretor_Status


That explains why sometimes with an empty stomach it sometimes rumbles and gurgles enough to disrupt a court room (that happened at school excursion once!)  :)

Posted by: Possum, Sunday, March 28, 2010, 9:20am; Reply: 19
Quoted from Victoria
Have you tried making almond butter in them yet?  
Sorry missed this question - yeah nut butters can be made very successfully... I like the added step of beating the ingredients together that was in another thread...

3. Transfer the whole thing to a mixing bowl and whir at top speed with electric mixer (I use a Kitchen Aid mixer Paddle)  I recommend the Kitchen Aid with the paddle attachment if you have one, but if you do not I THINK a hand mixer would work, too.  

4.  Blend it top speed until it becomes creamy.  There is technically no reason that you would NEED to add oil to the mixture, as nuts have enough of their own natural oils in them.... they just need to be pulled out (that's why the mixer in the second step is needed).

P.S. how can I avoid hijacking this thread, when I was asked a question?
Posted by: Symbi, Sunday, March 28, 2010, 9:23am; Reply: 20
Sounds great Possum.
Now I'm craving nuts - yum!

Or is that now I'm raving nuts?  Or the nuts are raving?

P.S. doesn't bother me, where else are people going to chat?
Posted by: Possum, Sunday, March 28, 2010, 9:28am; Reply: 21
;D ;D ;D :D :D :D
Posted by: Kumar, Sunday, March 28, 2010, 9:42am; Reply: 22
Thanks Symbi for the new information. I have always been suspecting that serum alk phosphatase and intestinal could be correlated. Your literature discovery can indeed give one more clue (possibly most reliable) in having temporary nonnie diagnosis in places where the actual test is not possible due to logistical problems.
Posted by: Vista, Tuesday, March 30, 2010, 6:36pm; Reply: 23
Quoted from Symbi
So I wonder if for people, especially Type As, like Kumar, who are having trouble accessing lewis and secretor tests, whether serum IAP can help guess their secretor status.  Being an A and a nonnie gives me the lowest IAP and that fits with my blood results.


How can I test for IAP from blood results? What test should I ask for? Is it just called IAP from blood?

Posted by: Symbi, Wednesday, March 31, 2010, 2:05am; Reply: 24
Hi Vista,

Good question, I probably should have put that on here already!

Here in Australia it's done as part of the liver function tests in the E/LFT test (electrolytes and liver function tests)

http://www.labtestsonline.org.au/understanding/analytes/electrolytes/glance.html

http://www.labtestsonline.org.au/understanding/analytes/liver_panel/glance.html

I would guess in Sweden you would have advanced pathology labs there where you could get the lewis test done?  Better to have definites than have to guess and worry that the guess may be wrong!  Also good to test the MN system, and optional subtype of A (A1 or A2 - I still don't know that one) too.
Posted by: Vista, Tuesday, April 6, 2010, 2:01pm; Reply: 25
Thanks for your answer Symbi.

I have already done a Lewis test from blood but in Sweden it is impossible to do a Lewis test from saliva. I have contacted every possible lab and asked a lot of different people. My results from the Lewis blood test was Lewis double negative.  :)
Posted by: Symbi, Wednesday, April 7, 2010, 3:24am; Reply: 26
Hi Vista,
No worries, you're welcome!  I hope Lola sees your post, she has lots of links about everything and she's a DLN herself.  I think you can consider your self a nonnie from what I've read.  Maybe a search of this website could be helpful.

It must have been annoying to not get a definite answer on whether you're a nonnie or not!

Hope you can get the IAP info to help too.  It's good to have an annual checkup blood test anyway and that's part of the standard tests.
Posted by: balletomane, Wednesday, April 7, 2010, 8:25am; Reply: 27
Symbi,

Reading this thread sheds some light on what could possibly have happened to me last year when I fasted for a week to detoxify myself. Actually my fasting was not properly done and I ate many non-compliant nuts and stuff to fight the hunger pangs (not knowing BTD at the time). I managed to not feel much hunger in the last three days or so, and indeed felt more energy.

But I wonder if that did any "permanent" damage to my stomach lining. Actually I had acid reflux before the fasting and during and after the fasting it seemed to have gone away (maybe due to the alkaline "Master Lemonade" with cayenne pepper). But it came back again a month or so later....

Are there any nonnies out there who have fasted and can share your experience?
Posted by: balletomane, Wednesday, April 7, 2010, 8:26am; Reply: 28
Quoted from Vista
Thanks for your answer Symbi.

I have already done a Lewis test from blood but in Sweden it is impossible to do a Lewis test from saliva. I have contacted every possible lab and asked a lot of different people. My results from the Lewis blood test was Lewis double negative.  :)


Vista,
Can you order a secretor test kit from NAP? I did and mailed back the saliva via international courrier mail. I'm sure you can do that from Sweden as well.
Good luck!
Posted by: Victoria, Wednesday, April 7, 2010, 4:56pm; Reply: 29
Ah Possum!  Just saw your answer to my question on making nut butter.  Thanks for that great description, and especially the trick with the electric mixer!  (Too bad I just sent my mixer off with my daughter last week!)   ;D
Posted by: Lola, Wednesday, April 7, 2010, 9:28pm; Reply: 30
Quoted Text
Are there any nonnies out there who have fasted and can share your experience?


the closest I get to fast is following the liver cleanse described in the GTD book

fruit, fresh salad, olive oil, lemon juice all day.....

that s as far as I get with fasting, anything more drastic simply feels wrong to me
Posted by: Vista, Sunday, April 18, 2010, 7:02pm; Reply: 31
I have found some testresult done on me for P-phosphatase, alkaline. Is that something that can indicate secretor status? My test result for P-phosphatase, alkaline was 2,2.
Posted by: Lola, Sunday, April 18, 2010, 8:35pm; Reply: 32
don t you have a comparative number?
to see the difference in your results
Posted by: Lisalea, Sunday, April 18, 2010, 9:05pm; Reply: 33
My Alkaline Phosphatase is at 67.
The normal range is between 13-113. ;)
Hopefully, I'm a Secretor. ;D
Posted by: Symbi, Sunday, April 18, 2010, 10:52pm; Reply: 34
Hi Lisalea,
Os and Bs have the highest levels, so it may be difficult to tell for your blood type.  May be best to have the test to be sure, to be sure!

Vista - how does your result compare to the lab reference range?  We can't tell what 2,2 means?
Posted by: Lisalea, Sunday, April 18, 2010, 11:12pm; Reply: 35
I thank-you for the info Symbi. :) ;)
Posted by: Vista, Monday, April 19, 2010, 8:26am; Reply: 36
I am not sure if the test is the same as the IAP test but as I have read P=plasma so P-phosphatase alkaline stands for plasma phosphatase alkaline levels according to the Swedish test explanations. My test result for P-phosphatase, alkaline was 2,2 and the test reference values are 0,8-4.6 ukat/L. The thing I wonder about is if maybe Intestinal Alkaline Phosphatase would be the same as P-phosphatase alkaline levels in my test report.
Posted by: Possum, Monday, April 19, 2010, 8:38am; Reply: 37
Quoted from Victoria
Ah Possum!  Just saw your answer to my question on making nut butter.  Thanks for that great description, and especially the trick with the electric mixer!  (Too bad I just sent my mixer off with my daughter last week!)   ;D
Ha ha just saw your reply here... Too bad you sent your mixer away - I think you could use a hand mixer... :-/ It would give you good arm work outs, especially if you can alternate arms... ??) ;)

Posted by: Lola, Monday, April 19, 2010, 3:54pm; Reply: 38
those levels look fine to me.....IAP
Posted by: Captain_Janeway, Monday, April 19, 2010, 4:17pm; Reply: 39
The serum alkaline phosphatase level as reported on a standard blood chemistry test is not going to give you the level of IAP. The value reported on the lab report is a quantitation of the total which includes all of the fractions such as liver, bone, brain, intestinal and others.

The only way you can know the IAP level is by fractionation. This is altogether a different test from the serum alkaline phosphatase that is reported on a standard lab test.
Posted by: Vista, Monday, April 19, 2010, 6:05pm; Reply: 40
Quoted from Captain_Janeway
The serum alkaline phosphatase level as reported on a standard blood chemistry test is not going to give you the level of IAP. The value reported on the lab report is a quantitation of the total which includes all of the fractions such as liver, bone, brain, intestinal and others.

The only way you can know the IAP level is by fractionation. This is altogether a different test from the serum alkaline phosphatase that is reported on a standard lab test.


So P-phosphatase alkaline levels as I wrote about in my earlier post is not the same as IAP? I have tried to understand from reading about different tests but there seems to be P-(plasma) alkaline phosphatase, S-(serum) alkaline phosphatase and then also intestinal alkaline phosphatase?

Is IAP a complicated and expensive test for the medical services to perform, something that is only tested for if theres a need for it?
Posted by: Captain_Janeway, Monday, April 19, 2010, 10:21pm; Reply: 41
Quoted from Vista
Is IAP a complicated and expensive test for the medical services to perform, something that is only tested for if theres a need for it?


Yes, the different sources of alkaline phosphatase or the isoenzymes as they are often called are separated by electrophoresis. And it is not a test that would be routinely performed by the lab unless the total serum or plasma alkaline phosphatase shows a markedly elevated level. In that case they would need to know where the problem is such as with the liver, bones, intestines or other sources of this enzyme.
Posted by: Vista, Tuesday, April 20, 2010, 8:18pm; Reply: 42
Quoted from Captain_Janeway


Yes, the different sources of alkaline phosphatase or the isoenzymes as they are often called are separated by electrophoresis. And it is not a test that would be routinely performed by the lab unless the total serum or plasma alkaline phosphatase shows a markedly elevated level. In that case they would need to know where the problem is such as with the liver, bones, intestines or other sources of this enzyme.


Thanks Captain_Janeway for your thorough answer to my question!  :)
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