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BTD Forums  /  SWAMI Xpress  /  Man Boobs
Posted by: Jumari, Monday, November 23, 2009, 8:55am
There is nothing that makes me laugh harder than Man Boobs...

So in turn there is nothing I would dread more than Man Boobs...

My partner told me a couple of days ago that she read somewhere that Soy milk has a lot of Estrogen and can cause Man Boobs....

Is this true??????????

I drink soy quite a bit...I have, let us say, a good potential for growing MB.

Any suggestions on how to avoid this happening?
Posted by: Possum, Monday, November 23, 2009, 9:15am; Reply: 1
I have heard that soy can do that  too... ??)as can chicken... ??) both from hormones.. Only way that I can think to avoid this, is to avoid using both those things ::) Someone else may know more tho' ;)
Posted by: Cristina, Monday, November 23, 2009, 10:29am; Reply: 2
For that to happen, Soy would have to affect your reproductive hormones, that may, or may not be true for some people, but in this path, we know it not to be true for those genotype bloodgroups where consumption of soy products is rated as highly beneficial.

But, if Dr D's studies and conclusions on rating Soy products for some genotypes  (male or female) as highly beneficial is not in itself assurance enough, we can refer to some other independent feedback on the subject.  Check the results from this US government Public Med website (U.S. National Library of Medicine National Institutes of Health).  Conclusion quoted:

Quoted Text
CONCLUSION(S): The results of this meta-analysis suggest that neither soy foods nor isoflavone supplements alter measures of bioavailable T concentrations in men.


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19524224?itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum&ordinalpos=6

Linked from this website:
http://www.thatsfit.com/2009/11/03/jeremy-piven-blames-soy-milk-for-his-man-boobs/   :) :) :)

Posted by: Cristina, Monday, November 23, 2009, 11:22am; Reply: 3
Also, in browsing around on the internet I came across a lot of contradictive information on the subject, not only relating to Soy but also Flaxseeds, and for both men and women issues.

Something that caught my attention is the body builders reputation of using flaxseeds to balance their hormonal activity sent out of wack by consumpsion of steroids.

I listen to a chat forum where soy consuming men were seeking advice on avoiding Moobs the natural way.  

Quoted Text
Eat more flax seeds. The lignands in flax seed are anti-estrogenic with effects comparable to Tamoxifen in clinical trials - this anti-estrogenic property leads to interesting effects when it comes to fat loss. Steroid-abusing bodybuilders with full-blown gyno have managed to get rid of theirs just by including flax seed in their diet. Fresh ground for preference. ..flax seed, and maybe some zink supplement will optimize your hormonal environment and persuade your body to release the stubborn fat mediated by the estrogen-sensitive betareceptors in your moobs. The lignands in the flax will block those receptor sites, making the stubborn estrogen-sensitive fat more amenable to being burned (this works for hips and love handles too, btw.)


This advice may or may not be effective for everyone, for starters it lacks the insight we acquired while in this path: the person giving the advice forgot to ask the person seeking help about his blood group. ;) ;)

Something else I came across searching the net is the talk about eating things in moderation and include variety in the diet.  Now, where have we heard that before?  references to portion sizes, frequencies, beneficial, superfoods, diamonds listed under all foodgroups ...  (think)

Dr D, at least for us As particularly Warrior and Teacher genotypes, have both soy and Flaxseed in the vegetable proteins as SF or diamonds, which are meant to act as medicine for us  ;D ;D

Thanks for posting this question because in as much as you are concerned about the effect on men, women may also be drag under the missinformed histeria ruling cyberspace and be unnecessarily delayed in our journey to optimal health.

Ahhh... it is such a relief to know somebody else has done all this research for us and now we can enjoy its application in our lives, as long as we employ diligence when doing it, we can relax, enjoy this journey and trust we are in good hands.   :) :)
Posted by: Lola, Monday, November 23, 2009, 4:27pm; Reply: 4
your BT is key when reading any kind of nutritional one size fit all bashing......

if soy is in your list, make sure you stick to the recommended frequency values.
Posted by: diffy, Monday, November 23, 2009, 7:16pm; Reply: 5
My ex-hubby had boobs and was quite embarrassed by them..then when our son entered puberty I realized he's developing boobs as well. I asked my ND about it and she advised my son to take 'testralin' by Metagenics. She explained that it turns the excess estrogen into testosterone, or something like it. My son took it for a while; it is now a few years later and thank G-d he is FLAT chested...
Posted by: Eric, Tuesday, November 24, 2009, 12:18am; Reply: 6
From "Live Right for Your Type"


Many Type As and Type ABs have expressed concern about soy products after reading warnings that soy products may be protease inhibitors--that is, they inhibit the enzyme secreted by the pancreas that facilitates protein digestion. Let's dispel this myth once an d for all. It is true that soy contains a protease inhibitor, named Bowman-Bird Soy Protease Inhibitor (BBI). However, BBI, far from being of harm to Type As and Type ABs, is actually a very good friend. Here's why:

-BBI protease inhibitor from soy has well-recognized anti-carcinogenic properties.

-BBI protease inhibitor from soy is a significant inhibitor of Human Leucocyte Elastase (HLE), an enzyme that dissolves the protein elastin and also degrades and inactivates a number of plasma proteins. Elastase probably plays a physiological function in neutrophil migration, phagocytosis, and tissue remodeling. HLE apparently plays a pathological role in pulmonary emphysema, rheumatoid arthritis, endometriosis, infections, and inflammation.

Thus type As and Type ABS on soy-based diets can look forward to having lower levels of inflammation, allergy, cancer, and infection- thanks to this "poison" in soy. Another beneficial effect of soy with special importance to Type A is the ability of the phytochemical genestein to block the effects of the enzyme aromatase. Aromatase in an enzyme that produces estrogen and other steroids. Aromatase is located in estrogen-producing cells of the body. Many estrogen-positive cancers are inhibited by blocking this enzyme. Aromatase inhibitors are increasingly the drug of choice for managing metastic breast cancers that have retained estrogen sensitivity. Other aromatase inhibitors include high-lignan flaxseed oil and the flavones Apigenin (found in chamomile) and Chrysin (found in passion flower).

References:

Wan X. S., Lu L. J., Anderson K.E., Kennedy A.R. "Urinary excretion of Bowman-Birk inhibitor in humans after soy consumption as determined by a monoclonal antibody-based immunoassay."
Cancer Epidemiol Biomarkers Prev., Jul 2000; 9(7): 741-7.

Clawson, G.A. "Protease inhibitors and carcinogenesis: A review."
Cancer INvest, 1996; 14(6): 597-608.
Posted by: Cristina, Tuesday, November 24, 2009, 2:17am; Reply: 7
From our own Newsletter Vol 1 Issue 4, July 2009
Is There a Dark Side to Soy?
By George R. Savastio, ND
http://www.dadamoinstitute.com/Summernewsletter2009.pdf
:) ;) ;)

AROMATASE INHIBITORS AND ESTROGEN DOMINANCE
by Peter D'Adamo, N.D.
http://www.annieappleseedproject.org/arindom.html
:) ;);)
Posted by: mikeo, Tuesday, November 24, 2009, 3:30am; Reply: 8
if you have man boobs there is always the "bro" or the "manzier"
Posted by: Egal, Tuesday, November 24, 2009, 6:25am; Reply: 9
Quoted from mikeo
if you have man boobs there is always the "bro" or the "manzier"


Sorry mate, dont get it, is this canadian local humour I am missing? What are bro or manzier?  :)

Posted by: Lola, Tuesday, November 24, 2009, 6:34am; Reply: 10
sounds like bras for men!! ;) ;D
Posted by: Jumari, Tuesday, November 24, 2009, 10:08am; Reply: 11
Luckily the bro and the manzier are a long way away for me still.

Thanks for the tips and the research everyone....

Soy milk is a neutral for me, and I only use it as a milk substitute...

Chicken too is a neutral, and would have a large quantity of hormones...

I know organic is best but not always easily available when eating out..

Thanks again
Posted by: DoS, Tuesday, November 24, 2009, 6:27pm; Reply: 12
I assume endomorphic people are liking to have them just due to sloppy body functions from a bad diet. Aside from that anyone with heavy candida seems to have little to no muscle and a little extra fat that seems to stick out a bit, but maybe not enough for the "bro".

Although I see lots of guys with pecs and I do not count them as man boobs, and I assume no one here does.

Soy being horrible for a lot of people could lead to candida infections or just a body with no muscle and weight gain. Essentially unless you are a Teacher or Warrior it has that threat when it populates too much of a diet.
Posted by: paul clucas, Wednesday, November 25, 2009, 3:54pm; Reply: 13
The hormone issue with Man Boobs is likely to be xeno-estrogens as well as being over weight.

I've got them now.  They were worse when over 20 years ago, when I peaked at a lower "maximum" weight.  Eating better quality meat is the key to the difference I have experienced when I am "maxed out".  I eat much more fish now as well.

I can't be too sensitive about my MBs because the mound of my abdominal flab hides them!   :o

Quoted from Egal
Sorry mate, dont get it, is this canadian local humour I am missing? What are bro or manzier?
Probably form fitting undershirts that function like a "hide'em" bra, Arti.  Don't know for sure since I have never tried to find out.  At the very least, wearing tight clothing is not recommended in traditional eastern medicine, as it stops the flow of energy.  Wearing bras that are too tight for too long actually kill a few women every year.   :(

You could use an EMS machine to "target exercise" the pectoral muscles - but that is risky.  Putting an electric current so close to your heart muscle is not advisable.  My general rule is that you do not put any pad over your rib cage.  If you are really intent on isolated pectoral exercise, going to a "spa" that offers an EMS therapy service with an experienced person to control the EMS session would keep the risk to a minimum.
Posted by: SoulfulLori, Wednesday, November 25, 2009, 4:02pm; Reply: 14
Mikeo...love Seinfeld...everything relates to Seinfeld.
Posted by: shoulderblade, Wednesday, November 25, 2009, 4:39pm; Reply: 15
Quoted from Egal


Sorry mate, dont get it, is this canadian local humour I am missing? What are bro or manzier?  :)



Same here but I am a Canadian. Explain if you please. :)

Posted by: Squirrel, Thursday, November 26, 2009, 1:17am; Reply: 16
I had to google them too, but I think I've got the idea now! Bras for men, right? The terms manziere (from brassiere) and bro (from bra) were coined on Seinfeld when they were trying to invent a man-bra and couldn't decide on a name. There's also the brozeer which seems to be used by transvestites.

Wow, the things you learn on the net. And I only logged on for a recipe for noodle seasoning... :D
Posted by: Symbi, Sunday, December 20, 2009, 11:27pm; Reply: 17
Squirrel  :)

Don't worry Jumari, they aren't allowed to add hormones to chicken in Australia.  We have the best meat here!  Non-free-range, however, may have antibiotics but that's another story.  Check this link out, unless you're chicken http://www.chicken.org.au/files/_system/Document/FAQ.pdf  :P

Didn't know this for sure, but most blokes I've seen with man boobs like their beer.  Then I found this:

Quoted Text
Just on prolactin quickly, increases of this hormone can lead to the formation of man boobs. This is commonly seen in beer drinkers. Beer is made from hops, which is oestrogenic and excessive beer consumption leads to a rise in prolactin. So drink less beer and take more zinc!
http://www.naturopathy.ie/blog/2007/11/28/mens-health-the-big-issues/   :o

Does zinc you put on your face at the footy or cricket while you're sucking on a can count?  he he

P.S. nice tips on the second page for male toiletries.  If they can have bro and manziers (I remember seeing Frank Costanza wearing one (shudder) ROFL), why can't men have man bags?
Posted by: Paulppaul, Monday, December 21, 2009, 4:52am; Reply: 18
Personal experience, yeah, but only perked them up while on soy milk, went down when I got off the juice.  :B
Posted by: paul clucas, Wednesday, December 23, 2009, 12:17am; Reply: 19
I am glad that I am taking Zinc.   ;D
Posted by: mikeo, Friday, December 25, 2009, 5:32am; Reply: 20
push ups are great remedy for man boobs..start slow and work yourself up to 30 push ups a day and watch the boobs turn into plated armor
Posted by: Ribbit, Friday, December 25, 2009, 2:26pm; Reply: 21
I can second everything said about prolactin, beer and increased breast size, being a breastfeeding mother for 7 years.  Ahhhh, prolactin.  (ondrugs)(sleeping)
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