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BTD Forums  /  SWAMI Xpress  /  TSH levels and SWAMI
Posted by: Pink, Friday, November 13, 2009, 3:26am
Hi all,

I just had some blood workup, and my TSH levels are quite high, but  I really don't want to take any prescription meds to control my thyroid.

After plugging that into my SWAMI, and recalculating, I noticed some pretty drastic changes to my food choices (almonds going from beneficial to black dot, chicken liver from a diamond to neutral, etc.)  Will those changes be sufficient, do you think, or are there other changes you would recommend, too?  I don't see anything in the health protocol section, so I'm not sure if there are any additional supps I should consider taking?

Thanks for your input,
Debbie :)
Posted by: Cristina, Friday, November 13, 2009, 3:35am; Reply: 1
Do you have any supps listed in the protocol section?  ??)
Posted by: Lola, Friday, November 13, 2009, 3:38am; Reply: 2
try this
http://www.northamericanpharmacal.com/PNC/productguide.html
NAP provides an online guide to help people in selecting the right supplements.
Designed for touch-screen, but also works via mouse click as well
tell it to print the 'highly recommended' ones.
Posted by: Pink, Friday, November 13, 2009, 3:48am; Reply: 3
Thanks Lola, I've done that, but none of the questions asks about thyroid or other endocrine issues...  I'm just not sure that's really addressing my specific question? :-/
Posted by: Lola, Friday, November 13, 2009, 3:58am; Reply: 4
wish I had my encyclopedia here....
great protocols for thyroid.....
hope you can get one at your local library and look into it.

there also is a box for
Hx of thyroid disease in swami......am I right?
Posted by: diffy, Friday, November 13, 2009, 4:04am; Reply: 5
So glad you're asking. My TSH also came back high now (but c'be cuz I've got no thyroid and whatever meds I'm on, it's not high enough dose), but my daughter has high TSH and I'm not sure what to do about it either. Letsee what we can find here...
Posted by: C_Sharp, Friday, November 13, 2009, 4:14am; Reply: 6
Encyclopedia recommends:

Metabolic Enhancement Protocol

http://www.dadamo.com/protocols/22.html

Detoxification Protocol

http://www.dadamo.com/protocols/14.html
Posted by: Jane, Friday, November 13, 2009, 2:25pm; Reply: 7
When you say high, how high.  I don't have a thyroid either (removed for thy.cancer in 1996) and with sufficient meds my TSH is actually .02.  My endo is actually decreasing my meds to get it up slightly.  He explained that sometimes when it's THAT low, you actually can gain weight.  Constant struggle for me.
Posted by: diffy, Friday, November 13, 2009, 2:34pm; Reply: 8
Mine is 5.4 and the lab range is .45-4.5.
We had it down to .18 but I had terrible hyper symtoms and rapid weight loss. So I decreased my dose and now it's a bit over the top of the limit. I also had thyroid removed due to cancer and supposed to be on suppressive doses, but suppressive doses make me feel so hyper...Now I feel hypo and neither hypo nor hyper is fun...
Posted by: Jane, Friday, November 13, 2009, 2:51pm; Reply: 9
That happened to me last year.  Reduced the dose and it flew up over 5.  Sometimes I think I don't know what really good feels like.   I'm not hyper but I don't sleep well.  Still a work in progress I guess but at least I have an endo that's extremely responsive and will try things.  I took synthroid for years and years and years.  Now I take Levoxyl plus a compounded T3 capsule.
Jane
Posted by: Pink, Friday, November 13, 2009, 11:59pm; Reply: 10
I called my endo and got last years' lab results to compare:

July of 2008 TSH was at 3.31
November of 2009 TSH is at 4.45

I think that's a pretty big jump for just over a year.  I've been reading about the "new" ranges they have put out, and it seems like most docs are using .3 - 3.0 rather than the old range of .45 - 4.5 (which is what my lab is using).

I guess you gals that have had yours completely removed have bigger issues than me.  My biggest complaint after the weight gain is being cold all the time.  And it seems like we're in for a killer winter this year - it's snowing again now!  I just don't think I can handle the cold this year.

I took Armour Thyroid for about a year with no noticable effect.  I quit taking it a few months before last years labs, so I assume the 3.31 was a "clean" number.  Any idea how long it would take for the meds to get out of your system, and normal function to return?

Debbie  ??)


P.S.  Oh, and forgot to mention C-Sharp that I have ordered the two things I'm not already taking for the metabolic enhancement protocols :)
Posted by: Jane, Saturday, November 14, 2009, 12:52am; Reply: 11
It takes a while, several weeks anyway.  Most people feel optimal between 1 and 2 I believe.  Being cold is a sign that you are still not getting enough.  Is your morning temp low?

Google Mary Shomon's site on About.com for all kinds of info.
Jane
Posted by: JJR, Saturday, November 14, 2009, 5:30pm; Reply: 12
Iodine?
Posted by: NewHampshireGirl, Saturday, November 14, 2009, 5:54pm; Reply: 13
Quoted from Jane
It takes a while, several weeks anyway.  Most people feel optimal between 1 and 2 I believe.  Being cold is a sign that you are still not getting enough.  Is your morning temp low?

Google Mary Shomon's site on About.com for all kinds of info.
Jane


Very true, in that most people feel optimal between 1 and 2.  I think of the thyroid as the regulator of your system.  Your health can be affected in so many ways if the thyroid can't do it's job.
Posted by: NewHampshireGirl, Saturday, November 14, 2009, 5:57pm; Reply: 14
(Oh no, I can't believe I put an apostrophe in i-t-s.  And, I don't know how to change it.  Aaaack!)
Posted by: Pink, Saturday, November 14, 2009, 7:00pm; Reply: 15
LOL!  I know how you feel NHG- I find myself doing it sometimes, too :)  I'm not sure why, but it seems to be the most over-used piece of punctuation in our country, huh?   :o

ABNoWay - what did you mean by Lodine?  It looks like that's a drug for RA... ??)

I think I'm resigned to finding a new endo.  The one I really like is way south for me - about a 45 min. drive each way, and the one I found nearer to me, I didn't really care for.  She seemed really put out by my questions, and didn't seem to have much time for me - I think she has bigger fish to fry, and my tiny little thyroid problem wasn't much of a concern in her opinion.  It looks like there's another one close to where I work that I may check out, though.  I'll give his office a call next week to see how long a wait he has for newbies  ;)
Posted by: Wholefoodie, Saturday, November 14, 2009, 10:55pm; Reply: 16
Quoted Text
(Oh no, I can't believe I put an apostrophe in i-t-s.  And, I don't know how to change it.  Aaaack!)


New Hampshire Girl,
Just go to the post you want to edit and look to the right of the date for a icon (box shape) that says "modify." Move cursor over the icon and you will get a drop down menu. Choose "easy edit" and make your correction. I believe you only have 48 hours to change a post. And of course, only you can change your post.
Lisa
Posted by: Cristina, Saturday, November 14, 2009, 11:05pm; Reply: 17
72hrs   ;) :)  Still, time goes by very quick ...  :) Hope you all get over your health difficulties very soon.  Not much expertice in this area, so I keep in the background, but still thinking of you all and sending lots of positive energy your way.  :)
Posted by: NewHampshireGirl, Saturday, November 14, 2009, 11:52pm; Reply: 18
Quoted from Wholefoodie


New Hampshire Girl,
Just go to the post you want to edit and look to the right of the date for a icon (box shape) that says "modify." Move cursor over the icon and you will get a drop down menu. Choose "easy edit" and make your correction. I believe you only have 48 hours to change a post. And of course, only you can change your post.
Lisa


Thank you!  After being on the board for so many years you would think I'd have learned that by now.  :B

Stand strong, Pink.  Just remember your thyroid is very important to you.  (woot)
Posted by: JJR, Sunday, November 15, 2009, 12:47am; Reply: 19
Quoted from Pink
LOL!  I know how you feel NHG- I find myself doing it sometimes, too :)  I'm not sure why, but it seems to be the most over-used piece of punctuation in our country, huh?   :o

ABNoWay - what did you mean by Lodine?  It looks like that's a drug for RA... ??)

I think I'm resigned to finding a new endo.  The one I really like is way south for me - about a 45 min. drive each way, and the one I found nearer to me, I didn't really care for.  She seemed really put out by my questions, and didn't seem to have much time for me - I think she has bigger fish to fry, and my tiny little thyroid problem wasn't much of a concern in her opinion.  It looks like there's another one close to where I work that I may check out, though.  I'll give his office a call next week to see how long a wait he has for newbies  ;)


iodine.  Sorry, the capitol threw you off.  This is my experience.  My tsh levels are always what they're supposed to be in a medical test.  However, my temperature was consistently low and my hands and feet cold.  Then I started taking iodine as a supplement from time to time.  It seems to get my temperature up, help me not feel as tired, and my hands and feet aren't as cold.  Seems like I need it.  I'm not sure if that helps you at all, and I don't know why I'm not getting enough iodine, but that's my experience.  
Posted by: Pink, Sunday, November 15, 2009, 1:12am; Reply: 20
Oh!  That makes a lot more sense  ;D
Posted by: Jane, Sunday, November 15, 2009, 1:24am; Reply: 21
AB,
Do you take Dr. D's Fucus Plus (Bladderwrack).  
Jane
Posted by: diffy, Sunday, November 15, 2009, 1:37am; Reply: 22
Quoted from Pink
I called my endo and got last years' lab results to compare:

July of 2008 TSH was at 3.31
November of 2009 TSH is at 4.45

I think that's a pretty big jump for just over a year.  I've been reading about the "new" ranges they have put out, and it seems like most docs are using .3 - 3.0 rather than the old range of .45 - 4.5 (which is what my lab is using).

I guess you gals that have had yours completely removed have bigger issues than me.  My biggest complaint after the weight gain is being cold all the time.  And it seems like we're in for a killer winter this year - it's snowing again now!  I just don't think I can handle the cold this year.

I took Armour Thyroid for about a year with no noticable effect.  I quit taking it a few months before last years labs, so I assume the 3.31 was a "clean" number.  Any idea how long it would take for the meds to get out of your system, and normal function to return?

Debbie  ??)


P.S.  Oh, and forgot to mention C-Sharp that I have ordered the two things I'm not already taking for the metabolic enhancement protocols :)


Some people who have not found relief from Armour thyroid have issues with RT3 (reverse T3). In that case, T3 only, such as cytomel should bring you much relief. If your adrenals are adequately supported.  Also, ferritin levels need to be optimized.

There's a yahoo group with lots of info. yahoo groups on RT3, adrenals, and thyroid. Find the ones that are moderated by someone Valerie Taylor.
After weeks of sifting through her group messages I've finally found what works for me. Levoxyl had me feeling worse and worse.
Then found out I have high numbers of RT3. So now I'm taking isocort for adrenals and cytomel for thyroid replacement. It's working beautifully for me.
Wishing you best of luck! Oh, and about the cold, I am ALWAYS cold, wearing wool socks, fleece pants, and sweaters at all times! Summer is my favorite season!
Keeping my fingers crossed with my new cytomel/isocort treatment. Will see if my body warms up...

Posted by: Pink, Sunday, November 15, 2009, 1:46am; Reply: 23
Keep them coming - you guys are arming me with great info!  I am pretty sure that none of my docs have ever tested my T3 or T4 - just the TSH.  I'll be sure to request that next time I go in.  I think in the back of my mind, I always wondered if I was just being a hypochondriac since my TSH was always within "normal" range.  I'm finding out that normal is not always normal, though, and this additional info is helping me to keep strong in my opinion.  

Diffy, everyone always makes fun of me in the summer time, because I bring a sweater with me everywhere!  I've been known to pull one on when everyone around me is sweating in tank tops and shorts LOL - and don't even get me started on air conditioning!!!! (worried)
Posted by: Pink, Sunday, November 15, 2009, 1:47am; Reply: 24
Oh, and it's snowing AGAIN!  BRRRRRRR
Posted by: diffy, Sunday, November 15, 2009, 2:16am; Reply: 25
low body temperature SCREAMS low thyroid! and TSH alone will not provide that info! TSH only tells you that your pituitary is working all right. (unless your TSH is very low, which would indicate a prob with pituitary). PLEASE have yourself tested for RT3 (reverse t3) and FREE t3 and FREE t4, and ferritin, then post your labs on the yahoo groups I mentioned and arm yourself with as much info as you can.
I have seen a few endocrinologists, one of them a top doc in the city and none of my docs were as well versed as the folks on STTM (Stop the Thyroid Madness) and the yahoo groups. Those groups and the book provided me with a guide. As I am adhering to that guide I am feeling soooo much better!
Frustrating thing is, I've been asking my endo for cytomel for a loooong time and he did not think I need it. Well, the proof is in the pudding: I got myself off levoxyl, onto cytomel and am doing soooo much better! So much for the white coat...
Posted by: Tea Rose, Sunday, November 15, 2009, 1:48pm; Reply: 26
Today will be my second day of cytomel - I am hoping to feel better soon.

Tea Rose
Posted by: JJR, Sunday, November 15, 2009, 6:00pm; Reply: 27
Quoted from Jane
AB,
Do you take Dr. D's Fucus Plus (Bladderwrack).  
Jane


No, just iodine itself.  I'm assuming this fucus plus has iodine in it?  Maybe sometime I'll check it out.  What other benefits does it have?
Posted by: diffy, Sunday, November 15, 2009, 6:03pm; Reply: 28
Quoted from Tea Rose
Today will be my second day of cytomel - I am hoping to feel better soon.

Tea Rose


Curious how much you're taking. And sure hope you'll feel a whole lot better on it.
How are your adrenals? Ever did the cortisol saliva test?

Posted by: Tea Rose, Sunday, November 15, 2009, 8:39pm; Reply: 29
My doctor (MD) had no idea what dose to give me so he called the hospital pharmacy, they told him to start me on 25mcg per day.  It is a low dose, but he wanted to start slow.  

I don't have any idea what the cortisol saliva test is but  I imagine my adrenals are tired!

I will let you know after a week or two how I feel.

Can you tell a bit about how it helped you?  I would be interested in hearing.

Tea Rose
Posted by: JJR, Sunday, November 15, 2009, 9:25pm; Reply: 30
Yeah, I'm taking an adrenal supplement currently.  I just started it.  I guess there may be a connection?
Posted by: diffy, Sunday, November 15, 2009, 9:41pm; Reply: 31
25 mcg. cytomel is a typical starting dose.
You may find these sites helpful in tweaking your doses, and info on how cytomel affects you when you are not properly supported adrenally. what symptoms to look out for if you're on low/high dose, etc. Lots of usefull info.

http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/
http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/RT3_T3/
Posted by: Tea Rose, Sunday, November 15, 2009, 10:31pm; Reply: 32
Thank you diffy for the sites - I will go through them tomorrow.  I do like to read as much as I can so I am sure they will be a big help.

Tea Rose
Posted by: diffy, Sunday, November 15, 2009, 10:39pm; Reply: 33
Quoted from JJR
Yeah, I'm taking an adrenal supplement currently.  I just started it.  I guess there may be a connection?


Just curious which adrenal support you're taking. Do you feel better since you're on it?
I'm on isocort; chose to reject my doc's recommendation for hydrocortisone (cortef).

Posted by: JJR, Monday, November 16, 2009, 4:31pm; Reply: 34
Adrenal 80 by Atrium Inc.

I think I feel a little better, but I'm getting over having a terrible flu and I'm on a new drug for my heart arrhythmia.  So I have no clue.  I'm all messed up.  I guess we'll see.  It does seem to be helping some.
Posted by: diffy, Monday, November 16, 2009, 4:34pm; Reply: 35
Does magnesium help for your arrhythmia? My cardiologist told me 600-800 mg. magnesium should take care of it; but then again maybe yours is worse than mine was.
Posted by: JJR, Wednesday, November 18, 2009, 4:43am; Reply: 36
I take cal mag chela max.  It probably helps, but it still happens every once in a while.
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