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BTD Forums  /  SWAMI Xpress  /  confused
Posted by: Brenna, Saturday, November 7, 2009, 6:45am
okay, just recently I thought that I was sensitive to grains and dairy. so on my swami, I put gluten sensitive and lactose intolerance. I put this because I would use the restroom right after eating some swiss muesli. and also because i've been gassy and bloated. Well - I cut out the oats and the dairy. I found that I use the bathroom right after eating, no matter what I eat. I think its just my system. as for the gas - its still there in the same quantity. so I don't know where this puts me at. because being lactose intolerant - i'm 51% explorer and 49% nomad, but if i'm not, i'm a definite nomad.

any advice? i've cut out oats and dairy and still - the gassyness and bloating.

any ideas?
Posted by: Symbi, Saturday, November 7, 2009, 8:32am; Reply: 1
Hi Brenna,  that's not good what you're going through.   :( I used to get that too.  Sorry this is going to get graphic.  My morning toast and tea would go straight through me and I could see it was not digested in the stool.  It's called dumping syndrome.  Are you sure that it's going straight through you, you may have to look at your stool to see that it's undigested food.  Otherwise it could be the eating triggers your periastatic wave and makes you have a bowel movement?

One way to tell your bowel transit time is eat some beetroot or unchewed corn kernels and see how long it takes before they come out in your stool.  Should be 1 day ideally.
Some people have more than 1 bowel movement each day.  Is the stool a normal consistency or diarrhea?

For me I found out it was too much acid in the stomach and my whole system.  Not totally sure that what I had could be called dumping syndrome though, probably Irritable Bowel Syndrome combined with acidosis.  Having an antacid breakfast has fixed it for me (camomile tea, yogurt and alkaline fruit, oatmeal and fruit or something good like that.

Here's a good article: http://digestive.niddk.nih.gov/ddiseases/pubs/rapidgastricemptying/index.htm "People who have rapid gastric emptying should eat several small meals a day that are low in carbohydrates and drink liquids between meals—not with them. People with severe rapid gastric emptying will likely need to take prescribed medicine to slow their digestion. In the most serious cases, doctors may recommend surgery."  Hope it doesn't come to that!

Also found this article that reckons it can be sugar that causes it.  http://www.womenfitness.net/dumping_syndrome.htm  I think swiss muesli would have alot of sugar (probably fructose) in it and is difficult to digest.  Cooked oatmeal is much easier to digest.  

Have you tried adding probiotics to your diet (yogurt) or supplements?  I assume you're not eating wheat?

Hate for you to cut out dairy un-necessarily when it's supposed to be top food for Type Bs.  Try having no liquid with your meal like it says above and having small meals.  This syndrome is also linked with hypoglaecemia, small meals would help that too.  

It could also be fructose and other sugar foods too, so try cutting out sugars (especially honey - high in fructose).

Hope you feel better soon!
Posted by: Lloyd, Saturday, November 7, 2009, 1:19pm; Reply: 2
You may find that there is not much difference in your food lists from one to the other since the diet is mostly 'you'.

If I recall, those are locking fields and need to contact Bob at NAP to reset. It would be interesting to compare your food lists with both settings.
Posted by: Victoria, Saturday, November 7, 2009, 4:07pm; Reply: 3
Hi Brenna,
I went for about as many years as you, with very loose stools and "went" several times a day.  I tried everything, and this was in my BTD days, long before the GTD diet had been created.

Going completely gluten-free helped.  

Staying away from all flour products helped (even non-gluten flours)

I don't eat oats except as a very occasional treat.  It creates an acid-condition in my system.

I only eat superfood whole grains when I'm going to eat them.  Currently my favorites are millet and quinoa, well rinsed and lightly toasted in a dry skillet before cooking in more water than is usually used.  Two or three times a week works.  Beyond that, I get acid stomach.

As far as the dairy, I do very well with daily goat yogurt and ghee.  Cow yogurt messes with my gut.  I had eliminated cow cheeses also, until a year on the GTD diet, and now I eat a little compliant cow cheese a couple of times a week with no problems.

I take Polyflora B and Digest enzymes (by Enzymedica).  And I'm now having bm's that are like when I was a child.  The Nomad diet combined with the things I just mentioned have given me healthy stools for the first time in a couple of decades!
Posted by: geminisue, Saturday, November 7, 2009, 5:12pm; Reply: 4
Victoria, is an acid stomach, heartburn?  If not please describe what it is.  Thanks!
Posted by: Victoria, Saturday, November 7, 2009, 8:16pm; Reply: 5
Quoted from geminisue
Victoria, is an acid stomach, heartburn?  If not please describe what it is.  Thanks!


yup!   :X
Posted by: Brenna, Saturday, November 7, 2009, 9:59pm; Reply: 6
okay, its not diarhea,its solid but soft. sometimes it is too soft. often - 3 times daily at least. if its all grains that are bothering me, because i haven't noticed a difference between gluten free oats and regular oats. I really love my swiss style muesli - I just use oats, milk, plain yoghurt & stevia in mine. so, it would be too bad. but if I can't eat grains - what can I use as a filler so I don't feel starved?

but like I said before, I'm not sure if its an enzyme I need to be taking with my food. I read somewhere that sometimes if you have too much bloating after meals, to take an enzyme when you eat.

i'm confused as to which one it would be.

anyways, I'll be reading on "dumping". thanx.
Posted by: Andrea AWsec, Sunday, November 8, 2009, 1:05am; Reply: 7
Quoted from Brenna
what can I use as a filler so I don't feel starved?

but l


I have been running SWAMI's for a few friends and some of them say this exact phrase..
Why is it that we think that grains some how keep us from feeling hungry?
Protein and vegetables will keep you full longer with a steady blood sugar level.
Grains will bounce the blood sugar around causing you to feel full for a while but  not for long.

hey victoria you would explain this better then me.. :)

Posted by: Victoria, Sunday, November 8, 2009, 2:46am; Reply: 8
Quoted from Brenna
okay, its not diarhea,its solid but soft. sometimes it is too soft. often - 3 times daily at least. if its all grains that are bothering me, because i haven't noticed a difference between gluten free oats and regular oats. I really love my swiss style muesli - I just use oats, milk, plain yoghurt & stevia in mine. so, it would be too bad. but if I can't eat grains - what can I use as a filler so I don't feel starved?

but like I said before, I'm not sure if its an enzyme I need to be taking with my food. I read somewhere that sometimes if you have too much bloating after meals, to take an enzyme when you eat.

i'm confused as to which one it would be.

anyways, I'll be reading on "dumping". thanx.


Are you using cow's milk on the muesli?  You may not be lactose intolerant, just "cow milk" intolerant.  Just a possibility. .

I had gone to my doctor a few years ago when I was trying so hard to figure out why I had loose stools (not diarrhea) several times a day.  He tested to see if I was celiac, and the test was negative.  So he suggested that I stop eating all gluten and milk.  Stopping the gluten made things a lot better but not completely.  Then I stopped all non-cultured milk, eating only yogurt.  That helped even more, but not completely.  Then I switched to goat yogurt, and voila!

So just thinking, it might be worth skipping the milk and having just yogurt on your muesli.  If it doesn't help, try just goat milk yogurt and see how that works.  It would be nice if you could keep having your comfort food.  :-)
Posted by: Victoria, Sunday, November 8, 2009, 2:51am; Reply: 9
Quoted from Andrea AWsec


I have been running SWAMI's for a few friends and some of them say this exact phrase..
Why is it that we think that grains some how keep us from feeling hungry?
Protein and vegetables will keep you full longer with a steady blood sugar level.
Grains will bounce the blood sugar around causing you to feel full for a while but  not for long.

hey victoria you would explain this better then me.. :)


I would like to change the wording from grains to carbohydrates.  For me, at least, I can't manage without carbs, but it doesn't have to be grains.  For example, even though sweet potatoes are "sweet", my blood sugar level is more stable with them than if I were to eat rice.
Posted by: diffy, Sunday, November 8, 2009, 3:31am; Reply: 10
I have been gluten free for almost four years, and I find that when and if I have even gluten free oats I don't do well on it. I've heard that many folks don't tolerate it well, even though it's supposedly 'gluten free'.
Posted by: Gumby, Sunday, November 8, 2009, 4:50pm; Reply: 11
Well Andrea, grains do help me a lot.  Not in feeling full, but in slowing my gut down so that it has time to do what it needs to do with my food.  I do eat small amounts often, it just works best for me.  I don't like feeling full.  Satisfied, yes, but full, no.  

I don't come close to the recommended servings of carbs on my swami most days I am sure, it recommends a LOT for me.  I know I'm an A, but lots of As don't do well with grains and don't get a lot of them on their swami.

I do take digestive enzymens and hcl...but still lots of the time things move through quickly!
Posted by: Brenna, Sunday, November 8, 2009, 6:22pm; Reply: 12
would it still be dumping if my bms are can be pretty small. If I eat junk food, I get clogged up. so could be that because of all the fiber and the rougghage I'm eating- mabye thats why. because I do try to at least eat 4 smaller meals a day. I feel better for it.

I think that I'll have to go back to my goat products. I did feel a bit better on them. and regardless of how low GI a fruit is, I can't have them at all. they'll run my blood sugar up when swiss muesli or brown rice bread with butter, won't.

Maybe its the type of dairy. thanx for mentioning that.

also, when trying out some of these new dietary whatever, how long should I try it before I have an opinion about it?

several days? weeks? can someone feel like this about oats because of high-fiber?

any help is great.
Posted by: Brenna, Tuesday, November 10, 2009, 7:41am; Reply: 13
I'm not for sure if I have the dumping problem, but I re-evaluated my swwami, and updated it - turns out I'm 52% explorer. get this - milk, oats and yoghurt are all avoids for me. Maybe thats why it bothers me. no chicken. etc. But beef and tomatoes are benes. so maybe thats why. I'll have to try my new swami diet to see if it improves my digestive sysytem at all.
Posted by: kauaian, Tuesday, November 10, 2009, 7:07pm; Reply: 14
Thank sounds like the path you should definitely take ;)
Posted by: Victoria, Tuesday, November 10, 2009, 7:46pm; Reply: 15
Enjoy the journey.  It is really exciting to be playing detective and getting to the root of our problems.  Life only gets better and better.  :-)
Posted by: paul clucas, Tuesday, November 10, 2009, 10:05pm; Reply: 16
After a couple of weeks with the right dairy/carbs and the occasional veggie/meat skewer, roast, or stew, you will be telling us just how accurate this is.  Taste and see.  If there are issues, they can be worked out!   ;D
Posted by: Brenna, Wednesday, November 11, 2009, 6:04pm; Reply: 17
so far so good, I haven't even had ice cream. and my I've had less bms than usual. so that is good. that was noticable. now I just need to find a good, healthy explorer "me" sweet that I can have at the end of the day.
Posted by: Symbi, Sunday, November 15, 2009, 1:58am; Reply: 18
When it says no yogurt does that mean even goat's yogurt does anyone know?  That's interesting, one of your favourite foods gone kaput.  They reckon lots of people crave the foods that they are sensitive too, because it gives you exorphines and adrenalin after you eat it!

Hi Brenna, glad you're feeling better, keep us up to date.  Is Carob on your SWAMI?  Might be good for desert.  

Beef and tomato, sounds like spagehetti bolognaise you lucky thing!

Let us know how it goes!  ;)
Posted by: Cristina, Sunday, November 15, 2009, 2:34am; Reply: 19
make your own compliant nut butter (like Pecan?) by throwing a handful on the processor.  Add a bit of Agave or honey, and a bit of carob too.  Good confort food ...  Eat a little bit at a time and very slowly to allow the brain to register it is getting it ... :)(drool)
Posted by: Possum, Sunday, November 15, 2009, 3:11am; Reply: 20
I was scratching around for somethig to snack on at work, other afternoon...and mixed some cocoa powder with molasses...Yummy!!! Boy was that good & a great afternoon pick up too - could make a nice dessert if you can have those things :-/ (more appetisng at that stage, than the only other option, much as I love them - sardines ::))
Posted by: Brenna, Sunday, November 22, 2009, 7:40pm; Reply: 21
okay, I ate oat groats the other day with butter and milk and stevia it came out undigested. so does this mean that I have dumping syndrome? could it be something else? should I go to a dr or is this mostly a self treated problem?
Posted by: Brenna, Sunday, November 22, 2009, 7:53pm; Reply: 22
what is carob?
Posted by: C_Sharp, Sunday, November 22, 2009, 8:06pm; Reply: 23
Quoted from Brenna
what is carob?


Small beans that tastes kind of sweet. Some people think it tastes like chocolate, but it actually tastes much better.  
Posted by: Symbi, Monday, November 23, 2009, 12:46am; Reply: 24
Quoted from Brenna
okay, I ate oat groats the other day with butter and milk and stevia it came out undigested. so does this mean that I have dumping syndrome? could it be something else? should I go to a dr or is this mostly a self treated problem?


Hi Brenna, what grain were the groats?  I had to google groats to see what it was.  Apparently it's:
Quoted Text
Groats are the hulled grains of various cereals, such as oats, wheat, barley or buckwheat http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Groat_%28grain%29


Regardless of what is was made of, maybe what you saw was insoluble fibre http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insoluble_fibre.  That might look like groats I guess.  If you had dumping syndrome it would have to have gone straight through you.  Maybe you could try the unchewed corn kernel or beetroot test, see how long they take to go through you?  Hope you are feeling better after starting SWAMI, though  it may take some time.  :)
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