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BTD Forums  /  Live Right 4 Your Type  /  why do Rh-negatives exist?
Posted by: jayneeo, Monday, September 28, 2009, 4:02pm
This question-why do rh negatives exist is interesting....I'm not saying you wanna google it, but.....if you do, be prepared for some wild stuff! (reptilian ancestors...hey, wait, doesn't everyone have reptilian ancestors?....ET's and more) 8)
....(of course I am one)
Posted by: shoulderblade, Monday, September 28, 2009, 6:11pm; Reply: 1
I believe that I have read that originally all humans were RH- and that RH+ was a mutation that caught on very well.

The same might be the case for non-secretors and secretors with a new form replacing an old one to some extent. Likely both forms have some advantages so that some sort of equilibrium will be reached.

Refer to another thread on secretors/non secretors on this.
Posted by: jayneeo, Monday, September 28, 2009, 6:18pm; Reply: 2
I'm not so sure about that.....still open to data... ;)
Posted by: shoulderblade, Monday, September 28, 2009, 8:12pm; Reply: 3
I'm not so sure either really. My thought was that the most uncomplicated system would be the basic issue and the more complex the mutation.

Turns out it gets really complicated, I did a brief search via Google and came across this.(at bottom) Seems the origin and working nature of the gene are somewhat in the research stage. However if there is leakage between the mothers placenta and her bloodstream (given RH incompatability) there can be serious immune reactions. In the days before modern medicine this would have been a significant problem.




1 Wiener's hypothesis: Wiener postulated a number of (at least eight) multiple alleles at a single locus. According to him, gene R contains eight alleles such as r, Ro, R', R”, R1, R2, Rx or Re, and Ry.


2. Fisher's hypothesis: Fisher rejected the Wiener's concept of multiple allelism for R gene, instead of it, he proposed that a series of at least three pairs of pseudoalleles remain so closely linked with each other that they are usually inherited as a block. According to him, gene R is composed of three pairs of pseudoalleles or separate gene such as Cc, Dd and Ee. Recent genetical investigations have confirmed the Fisher's concept of pseudoallelism.







Posted by: 815 (Guest), Monday, September 28, 2009, 11:46pm; Reply: 4
Hi Bruce. Where ya been hiding?   :)
Posted by: teri, Tuesday, September 29, 2009, 3:55am; Reply: 5
This is interesting, talks about rh negative in relation to Basques, and suggests the possibility of two different species of humans, that neanderthals and homo sapiens quite possibly have evolved separately and not along the same "Darwin" line. At least, that's my interpretation...

http://www.aoi.com.au/bcw/neanderbasque.htm
Posted by: teri, Tuesday, September 29, 2009, 6:06am; Reply: 6
With all this reading about rh negative tonight I wonder what the effects might be (other than with pregnancies) of having a build-up of antibodies. I've had two miscarriages and never been given any anti-D. I have no doubt now that I'd continue to have miscarriages without it (except that I've long stopped trying). This must mean that I'm carrying the antibodies. Does anyone know what health implications there could be, if any? Or might the BTD be working to clear my blood of these antibodies?
Posted by: jayneeo, Tuesday, September 29, 2009, 5:05pm; Reply: 7
interesting, teri, I doubt that the antibodies could cause you any trouble but may be implicated in your miscarriages...sorry you had to experience that. :B

Thanks for the interesting link!
(proud to be one of them!)
Posted by: shoulderblade, Wednesday, September 30, 2009, 10:13pm; Reply: 8
Hi Diana. Out of hiding ??)

Quoted from teri
This must mean that I'm carrying the antibodies. Does anyone know what health implications there could be, if any? Or might the BTD be working to clear my blood of these antibodies?


I don't think that it is very likely that you have any antibodies in your system. As I understand it the original problem is when a Rh- mother has a pregnancy with a Rh+ father any mixing of blood will lead to an immune reaction. Normally the mother gets a shot (a vaccination) against the childs Rh+. But if there are no Rh+ cells in the mothers system there is no point in producing antibodies. What you may have is a memory/storage spot in your immune system that would respond quickly if the body were exposed to the Rh= stimulus again.
Posted by: shells, Thursday, October 1, 2009, 11:39am; Reply: 9
Quoted from teri
This is interesting, talks about rh negative in relation to Basques, and suggests the possibility of two different species of humans, that neanderthals and homo sapiens quite possibly have evolved separately and not along the same "Darwin" line. At least, that's my interpretation...

http://www.aoi.com.au/bcw/neanderbasque.htm


Thank you teri,

That was such a fascinating read!  All the O negs in my family and my O neg children all have the straight nose, definite chin, low body temp, low blood pressure and most of the females have the large eyes   8)

The Neanderthals  ;D

Posted by: jayneeo, Thursday, October 1, 2009, 4:12pm; Reply: 10
Neanderthals, Unite! ;D
Posted by: RedLilac, Friday, October 2, 2009, 3:18pm; Reply: 11
Quoted from shells


Thank you teri,

That was such a fascinating read!  All the O negs in my family and my O neg children all have the straight nose, definite chin, low body temp, low blood pressure and most of the females have the large eyes   8)

The Neanderthals  ;D



I’ve got low blood pressure & low body temperature, so is this a trait of RH-?  My genes may be old (RH- & non-seq), but my mind is young.  

Posted by: shoulderblade, Friday, October 2, 2009, 4:52pm; Reply: 12
Here is an interesting idea from the Wikipedia entry.

Quoted Text
Differences in the prevalence of Toxoplasma infection between geographical regions (0-95%) could also explain the striking variation in the frequency of RhD-negative alleles between populations. It is possible that the better psychomotor performance of RhD-negative subjects in the Toxoplasma-free population could be the reason for spreading of the “d allele” (deletion) in the European population. In contrast to the situation in Africa and certain (but not all) regions of Asia, the abundance of wild cats (definitive hosts of Toxoplasma gondii) in the European territory was very low before the advent of domestic cat.


I interpet this to mean that that good psychomotor skills allowed RH- to establish itself in Europe, in the absence of large cats, but elsewhere they were eaten up.(book2)
Posted by: 4992 (Guest), Friday, October 2, 2009, 7:52pm; Reply: 13
I am B- and I am having fertility issues. I had my husband's blood tested and he is O+ so I will have to take the shots during pregnancy it sounds like. I have heard that the shot has been linked to autism but it definately seems like the benefits outway the risks. Has anyone else with negative blood had fertility issues? I have tried for over 2 years to cure this naturally but I am going to do my first round of fertility treatments this month. Hopefully it works!

R
Posted by: Mohairandsilk, Friday, October 2, 2009, 8:20pm; Reply: 14
Hi,

I am O+
I used to have low blood pressure and low temperature.
I think the problem comes from bad metabolism of sugar and carbs. I am new to the diet, and sure the BTD will improve at least the blood pressure.
Posted by: Lola, Friday, October 2, 2009, 8:51pm; Reply: 15
bt compatibility
http://www.dadamo.com/B2blogs/blogs/index.php/2004/05/10/marriage-and-blood-type-compatibility?blog=27

Eat Right for Your Baby is a marvelous book which covers just about everything: Pre pregnancy, getting pregnant, pregnancy, breastfeeding......
http://www.dadamo.com/science_abo-bloodgroups-lewis.htm
scroll down to
Fetal Loss and Infertility

http://www.dadamo.com/knowbase/physiology/physiology7.htm
there s lots more if you use the main search button
http://www.dadamo.com/
Posted by: jayneeo, Friday, October 2, 2009, 9:41pm; Reply: 16
the first article, on bt compatability does not address the Rh factor, which is of critical importance. Your doctor will advise you on the rhogam shot. I had it after my first child, to protect my second pregnancy.
Posted by: Lola, Friday, October 2, 2009, 10:31pm; Reply: 17
getting pregnant is first! ;)
the rest you can worry about later.....
Posted by: Katsy, Saturday, October 3, 2009, 12:32am; Reply: 18
And it is also possible for some of your children to be Rh-negative. Since Rh- is a recessive trait, it's possible for your husband to be Rh+ (a dominant trait, much like brown hair/eyes) but still be able to produce Rh- offspring (a recessive trait, like blond hair or blue eyes) And like my ability to produce Type O offspring -- although I am Type A, I have a recessive O (which I think was passed on to my from my dad), which was passed on to one son, but not the other. So, you might want to do a blood test after the baby is born, to determine Rh status, just to be sure (because if you or baby don't need Rhogam, then why subject yourself to it?).
Posted by: Heidi, Saturday, October 3, 2009, 5:25am; Reply: 19
Quoted from Katsy
So, you might want to do a blood test after the baby is born, to determine Rh status, just to be sure (because if you or baby don't need Rhogam, then why subject yourself to it?).


That's what was done in my case. The babies were typed and then I got the shot. I didn't have any injections during the pregnancy at all.

Posted by: Henriette Bsec, Saturday, October 3, 2009, 9:38am; Reply: 20
Quoted from Mohairandsilk
Hi,

I am O+
I used to have low blood pressure and low temperature.
I think the problem comes from bad metabolism of sugar and carbs. I am new to the diet, and sure the BTD will improve at least the blood pressure.


Intersting

I am B-
and my bloddpressure and temperature is fairly low
( I am fairly sensitive to too many grains and sugars)

However my mum is O- and have high blodpressure  :-/ so ??
Posted by: shoulderblade, Friday, October 9, 2009, 7:35pm; Reply: 21
Back to the original question posed by this thread I would have have to conclude that RH-'s are people that have been bypassed by the general sweep of evolution. According to the Wikipedia page on this subject RH- is pretty well non-existent in Africa and Asia but includes16% of Europeans with an even higher rate among the Basques.

I would have to assume that RH+ is some sort of immune improvement as it is totally dominant in areas where diseases are most likely to be generated. (to be exact - tropical areas) No one ever heard of a disease starting off in Alaska or Canada or the Nordic countries or Siberia and working south - it is always the other way around.

Possibly the Basques entered Europe earlier than other humans and their isolation allowed them to maintain a high RH- population. But anyhow the fact that the original humans carried such a high level of RH- would imply that the mutation must be a fairly recent one.
Posted by: teri, Saturday, October 10, 2009, 3:18pm; Reply: 22
Quoted from shoulderblade
I don't think that it is very likely that you have any antibodies in your system. As I understand it the original problem is when a Rh- mother has a pregnancy with a Rh+ father any mixing of blood will lead to an immune reaction. Normally the mother gets a shot (a vaccination) against the childs Rh+. But if there are no Rh+ cells in the mothers system there is no point in producing antibodies. What you may have is a memory/storage spot in your immune system that would respond quickly if the body were exposed to the Rh= stimulus again.

Isn't that the same thing as an antibody? Any "memory/storage spot" would have to be in the form of something physical.
Posted by: 6950 (Guest), Sunday, October 11, 2009, 1:08pm; Reply: 23
All my family are types of rh negative (mostly Os) and all have low blood pressure and cold body temperature. My diet has not affected this and it has never been a problem (it is not dangerously low, just always measured a little under 'normal'). I am and always have been perfectly healthy (like my family), so I don't see it as a bad thing. I wouldn't necessarily agree with the adaption to climate theory as I am very much at home in any climate (even extreme temperatures) and never caught any illness or disease during the time I spent in Africa or Asia.

There are many crazy ideas on the internet surrounding rh negative simply because science hasn't got a better answer (yet). I haven't noticed any scales myself! My father's family are all old Jewish and my mother's from Southern France/Spain (possibly Basque, although I don't know how that is defined), so my generation all got a double dose of rh-neg!

In regards to the Rhogam shot, one of my great-aunts had this following four miscarriages. Her husband is A rh-positive and it took nearly ten years for the doctors to notice this as the cause. My second-cousin was born as a result and is now in her thirties. She has some health problems, but I don't know if this is due to inheriting her father's A+ blood or her mother being older when she was conceived. My aunt certainly isn't affected by it.

If modern humans do indeed stem from various species then rh-negative blood would make more sense. A lot more research needs to be done though.
Posted by: Jumari, Sunday, October 11, 2009, 11:19pm; Reply: 24
Quoted from teri
This is interesting, talks about rh negative in relation to Basques, and suggests the possibility of two different species of humans, that neanderthals and homo sapiens quite possibly have evolved separately and not along the same "Darwin" line. At least, that's my interpretation...

http://www.aoi.com.au/bcw/neanderbasque.htm


I found this article so interesting because I am Basque and RH -. My Father is an O -. And the debate about the origins of the Basque language has been going on forever. They say that Euskera, the basque language is older than Spanish as they are unable to determine its origin.

I guess next time someone calls me a Neanderthal, I'll take it as a complement. ;D
Posted by: medavida, Monday, October 12, 2009, 1:18am; Reply: 25
This subject is very intresting to me as well as I am rh-  and it is totaly recesive, bothe my parents are rh+.  I think I have a great aunt who is rh-.... (am 100% Nothern European).

  I have been wondering about the rhogam shot, I am not planing on having kids quite yet, but still the idea that I could have one miscarage after the other isn't very appealing so I would probably get the shot after the first rh+ child....how far along in a pregnancy do the antibodies start to produce?  I mean if for some reason I would lose the first child that happened to be rh+ lets say in the first two weeks of pregnancy, and not even know that I was preganant, is that enough time for my body to reject future rh+ children?


Henriette Bsec

I also have low blood presure and low body temp....for me it has to do with a low functioning thyroid.  It is within "normal" range according to the doctors, but Dr. Colicci (worked with Dr. D for many years) sais that it isn't good enough for her.  So she is helping me fix it :)
Posted by: 6950 (Guest), Monday, October 12, 2009, 11:54am; Reply: 26
I wonder about the low blood pressure thing sometimes... I am extremely energetic and hyperactive and if I had naturally higher blood pressure then I might be more susceptible to overly high blood pressure due to my workaholic nature. So possibly it balances out well with me. If I wasn't so hyper then perhaps it would fall too low? It's just a thought though - I'm no doctor!
Posted by: Kumar, Monday, October 12, 2009, 4:05pm; Reply: 27
Hi friends,

I am also A_ve blood and have my pressure and temperature lower than the "normal." My body temperature is around 97+ degrees and pressure is usually (114/76 or 110/70). I am perfectly fine these readings. What we are often led to consider "normal" are just conventional values and based on averages. I firmly believe that we all need to take note of one's normal values and monitor them for any significant changes, and not the conventional "normal". This is not only for temp and pressure but also for other parameters. For example, the moment my body temperature starts climbing up from "my normal" value (which is well below the conventional normal), I need to watch it closely as something might have gone wrong.
Posted by: Henriette Bsec, Tuesday, October 13, 2009, 9:17am; Reply: 28
Quoted from medavida


Henriette Bsec

I also have low blood presure and low body temp....for me it has to do with a low functioning thyroid.  It is within "normal" range according to the doctors, but Dr. Colicci (worked with Dr. D for many years) sais that it isn't good enough for her.  So she is helping me fix it :)


a ha... Thanks...
BTW my daughter is O-  and her BP is just 90 /60- 100/65 and she has low tempt as well.
We normally joke it is cause she eats very hunter(gatherer like- since we saw that Amzon indians often had BP around 90/60  :D
Posted by: shoulderblade, Tuesday, October 13, 2009, 6:45pm; Reply: 29
Quoted from teri

Isn't that the same thing as an antibody? Any "memory/storage spot" would have to be in the form of something physical.


That is my understanding of the situation. If you are exposed either to a microbe or to a fragment of one in an immunity shot the body has to have some memory/storage somewhere to record the stimulus and the appropriate antibody. The key here is the body has to be able to respond quickly in order to crush the infection. Otherwise there would be no point in having immunity shots, you could just let the body muddle through on its own.

Posted by: teri, Tuesday, October 13, 2009, 11:18pm; Reply: 30
Quoted from 6950
In regards to the Rhogam shot, one of my great-aunts had this following four miscarriages. Her husband is A rh-positive and it took nearly ten years for the doctors to notice this as the cause.

This is exactly what happened to me. After my second miscarriage I was sent to a specialist for some tests. In my interview with him afterwards nothing was ever mentioned about my blood type nor was I ever asked about the blood type of the father. Neither did any of the doctors who were involved in my miscarriages seem to consider blood type as the cause. In the process of miscarriage there is a lot of blood, which is certainly an event where the blood of the mother will mix with the blood of the fetus. Since no shot was given I assume antibodies developed as a result of the blood types mixing.
Posted by: Katsy, Tuesday, October 13, 2009, 11:31pm; Reply: 31
Quoted from teri

This is exactly what happened to me. After my second miscarriage I was sent to a specialist for some tests. In my interview with him afterwards nothing was ever mentioned about my blood type nor was I ever asked about the blood type of the father. Neither did any of the doctors who were involved in my miscarriages seem to consider blood type as the cause.


This may have been a case of "Dr. Somebody Else" was supposed to do the test or ask the question -- your original doc ought to have done it, but he figured the second doc would do it; your second doc thought that surely your first doc would have done it; and any other doctors would have thought that either Dr. #1 or #2 would have done it...

Sometimes it can be dangerous to assume.
Posted by: teri, Wednesday, October 14, 2009, 4:32am; Reply: 32
You're probably right, Katsy :'( Wish I knew then what I know now. But that's life.
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