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BTD Forums  /  The GenoType Diet  /  Toxic RiceCakes?
Posted by: Cristina, Monday, September 21, 2009, 10:32pm
By googling 'puffed grains', I found this extract in the internet:

quote
Paul Stitt described one [study] in his book Fighting the Food Giants. Four sets of rats were given special diets. One group received plain whole wheat, water, vitamins and minerals. Another group received Puffed Wheat, water and the same nutrient solution. A third set was given water and white sugar, and a fourth given nothing but water and the chemical nutrients. The rats that received the whole wheat lived over a year on the diet. The rats that got nothing but water and vitamins lived for about eight weeks, and the animals on a white sugar and water diet lived for a month. But [the company's] own laboratory study showed that rats given vitamins, water and all the Puffed Wheat they wanted died in two weeks. It wasn't a matter of the rats dying of malnutrition; results like these suggested that there was something actually toxic about the Puffed Wheat itself. Proteins are very similar to certain toxins in molecular structure, and the puffing process of putting the grain under 1500 pounds per square inch of pressure and then releasing it may produce chemical changes which turn a nutritious grain into a poisonous substance.
unquote

I was at the supermarket the other day, saw a packet of rice cakes, read the ingreedients:
Brown Rice and salt

These are compliant food items in my Teacher GDT, so I bought it (the rice cakes).
Ate a couple with my grandkids yesterday afternoon, yumeee, with almond butter and honey.  We enjoyed the treat.
This morning my bowels are all over the place.  Apart from the rice cakes, everything else I ate was part of my normal diet. So I checked the packaging for further info (it is full of printing, the whole package is covered with messages in different colours, sizes and fonts).  Buried amongts all this I read:
PUFFED CEREAL GRAINS: made in a production line that also produces products containing, sesame seed, pearled barley, milk and soybean products.
Hidden avoids!!
Do they mean these cakes are made with puffed rice, if so, why it is not listed in the ingreadients, I will not have bought them if I read this first.  Last time I saw a Naturopath, it was the one thing he warned me about: "Stay away from any puffed cereals or grains, they are poison".

The article above seems to confirm this.  

Also, these production lines may contain Milk products?!!!  What, don't they wash their equipment.  Milk is not something that stays fresh if you live it sitting there.  Scary ...

I am Ok though, being in this GTD allowed me to tune into my body and understand the process it is going through pinpointing the possible culprits   Any other time in my life, I could have dismissed or not notice these signal and continued buying and eating these puffed poisons to the detriment of my health.
Posted by: geminisue, Monday, September 21, 2009, 10:41pm; Reply: 1
would you share the brand name?
Posted by: glamour, Monday, September 21, 2009, 11:20pm; Reply: 2
I believe it means they used the same machine to process those other types of foods. So there could be traces?

I just recently bought some too by Lundberg. Brown rice cakes, gluten free, wheat free, Salt free. I can't find anything like that on mine.
Posted by: Brighid45, Monday, September 21, 2009, 11:31pm; Reply: 3
Legally the company has to put that disclaimer on the package. Most companies do not have dedicated machinery--they use the same machines to make different products (the company I work for does this). Even if they rigorously clean the machines between product changes, there's still a chance of some trace of product lingering somewhere. And trust me when I say, you're very lucky if companies clean at all between product changes! Generally companies do the minimum amount of cleaning required by law, with emphasis on the word 'minimum'. Contamination is inevitable, hence the disclaimer.

I don't eat rice cakes because they're like popcorn for me--they tend to spike my blood sugar and make me crave more. That said, Lundberg is an excellent brand with high quality, so if you can get their rice cakes in Australia, you might give them a try. :)
Posted by: Cristina, Monday, September 21, 2009, 11:41pm; Reply: 4
Quoted from Brighid45


... That said, Lundberg is an excellent brand with high quality, so if you can get their rice cakes in Australia, you might give them a try. :)


So, their rice cakes are not make with PUFFED rice?
Posted by: Victoria, Monday, September 21, 2009, 11:47pm; Reply: 5
We had a discussion on this topic many months in the past.  At that time we were discussing what an unhealthy food "puffed" grains are if the process is extrusion.  I believe the study you mentioned refers to extruded grains.  CLICK

I questioned the Lundberg company about the technique they use in the puffing of the rice used in their rice cakes.  They assured me that they never use extrusion.  Their process is very simple and basic.  My experience with their products is that they are of the highest quality and integrity.  I eat one a day with almond butter, walnuts and a bit of blackstrap, and experience great well-being from the treat!  :-)
Posted by: teri, Tuesday, September 22, 2009, 12:07am; Reply: 6
All rice cakes I've ever seen are made with puffed rice, including Lundberg's. I first found out about the toxicity of puffed grains right here in this forum about 2 years ago. Someone posted some good information about it and I haven't had a rice cake since.
Posted by: glamour, Tuesday, September 22, 2009, 12:13am; Reply: 7
Well it doesn't say puffed rice but it looks puffed, lol.

The ingredients: Eco-Farmed whole grain brown rice.
Posted by: shells, Tuesday, September 22, 2009, 1:47am; Reply: 8
I wouldn't worry about the machinery thing mentioned.  All products over here that claim gluten free, dairy free or nut free have to mention if machinery used is shared with other products.  It is part of our ingredients listing laws.

I have been using "Sun Rice" rice cakes for quite a few years made from Australian grown brown rice with a little salt. Usually canola oil or another non-compliant oil is an ingredient in a lot of other brands.  

Could it be the almond butter? I had an unopened jar of almond butter at the back of my cupboard (switched to macadamia butter) as it became an avoid.  It is still within date but the colour has changed - became darker so it has been thrown out.  I will usually keep these items refrigerated in this climate but there is no telling where they were stored before the shop shelf.

Just a thought...
Posted by: Ribbit, Tuesday, September 22, 2009, 2:04am; Reply: 9
But Dr. D has tested them for each of us.  Puffed wheat is the only wheat I can have on SWAMI.  So for me, puffing it actually made it tolerable.
Posted by: Cristina, Tuesday, September 22, 2009, 2:29am; Reply: 10
The point is whether grains that have been puffed using extrussion are safe or no?  

Shell:
Sun Rice cakes (the onesin question) mention puffed rice in the package, mind you, not in the list of ingredients, but a couple of lines down.  It does not clarify what system they use to puff the grain -harmful extrussion or traditional methods.

Ribbit:
Did Dr D test puffed grains that were made by traditional methods which, are safe and do not change the molecular structure to make them harmful?  As Victoria mentioned above, it is the extrussion method that may produce questionable health effects  ..

Victoria:
I did a search on the forums for that thread you mentioned, but all I come up is with recent threads, some discussing how to include Rice Cakes in our menus... ??)  Have those old threads been deleted?

My body reaction this morning could also have been as a result of enjoying a few too many mulberries from the first crop in my young mulberry tree.  But, it prompted my research which uncover these findings about puffed grains.  This is just not an 'internet' folklore thing, I heard it from a naturopath himself.  Also, even if the reactions are not immediate, and the signs are not that evident, the enemy within could still be doing its work and manifest when least expected.

Rice cakes are a very convenient food, and it will be easier to include them in my diet, but, to be in the safe side, unless I get them from a reliable non-extrussion source, they are now an avoid in my household.




Posted by: JJR, Tuesday, September 22, 2009, 2:56am; Reply: 11
I eat lundberghs and even quaker.  There is definitely a difference.  Hmmmmmm.....  This one is making me think.  

I like rice cakes too, but nothing compares to the real thing.  ;D  Especially after being soaked for 8 hours or so, cooked, with some ghee, walnuts, cranberries, sea salt, cloves and stevia.  Man this is good!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I would like to hear more about this!
Posted by: Victoria, Tuesday, September 22, 2009, 4:12am; Reply: 12
Old threads are sometimes deleted.  I believe I remember this about the extrusion process.  Grains are cooked to a mush, and then forced through little tubes at extremely high heat.  This makes the little shaped cereals, such as cheerios, and other "puffed-type" shapes.  These puffs don't really resemble a whole grain, even if they started with whole grain.

Lundberg rice cakes use whole grain rice and pop them, as if they were popcorn.  Big difference in technique.  You can see each grain, including bits of the rice bran still attached to the puff.
Posted by: Lola, Tuesday, September 22, 2009, 4:29am; Reply: 13
no worries all!
here s an older thread on the subject
http://www.dadamo.com/cgi-bin/Blah/Blah.pl?b-lr4yt/m-1195286687/s-all/
Posted by: Brighid45, Tuesday, September 22, 2009, 10:49am; Reply: 14
JMO: Follow Dr. D's recommendations and don't believe everything you read on the internet. There are a lot of differing opinions (and agendas) when it comes to the use and efficacy of various foods. Dr. D has done his homework and I trust him, he hasn't steered me wrong yet over the past five years of my following the BTD.

Victoria is right about the extrusion vs. popping methods. Popping keeps the grain whole, which limits the possibility of contamination. Most companies have an 800 number or a customer service contact; ask about their process. If they're not willing to tell you or you get the runaround, then you've got your answer.

Remember too that even within SWAMI recommendations you'll find some things work for you, and some don't. Experimentation is key, as always.
Posted by: Gumby, Tuesday, September 22, 2009, 2:23pm; Reply: 15
Re: the possible milk ingredients in your rice cakes...if it was a brand that also makes flavoured rice cakes, those flavoured powders almost always contain milk products.  Hence the reason they would have to put the warning on the plain ones also, just in case.
Posted by: Mrs T O+, Tuesday, September 22, 2009, 3:13pm; Reply: 16
I heard that 'puffing' is dangerous & quit eating rice cakes some years ago.  Maybe I'll try them again......  I'm sure the heat may make certain things toxic, like frying potatoes. :(

I'm gettng to the point where I crave a sandwich or the equivalent more often & I wasn't a big bread eater most of my life. Maybe an occasional rice cake may help. Unfortulately, I liked the flavor of Quaker more than Lundberg!
Posted by: cindyt, Tuesday, September 22, 2009, 6:26pm; Reply: 17
Puffed rice and rice cakes are both Superfoods for me on SWAMI.  I have been eating Lundberg organic ones.  I trust Dr. D. would not lead us astray when recommending these foods.
Posted by: Ribbit, Tuesday, September 22, 2009, 6:40pm; Reply: 18
I would think that if one type was good and the other was bad, he would have made the distinction.  I mean, if there's a difference between string beans and green beans, surely he would have differentiated between puffed grains and popped grains.  But then again.....maybe not. :-/
Posted by: JJR, Tuesday, September 22, 2009, 7:28pm; Reply: 19
Quoted from Mrs T O+
I heard that 'puffing' is dangerous & quit eating rice cakes some years ago.  Maybe I'll try them again......  I'm sure the heat may make certain things toxic, like frying potatoes. :(

I'm gettng to the point where I crave a sandwich or the equivalent more often & I wasn't a big bread eater most of my life. Maybe an occasional rice cake may help. Unfortulately, I liked the flavor of Quaker more than Lundberg!


For some reason the Quaker ones are actually easier to digest for me.  I thought they used to say "White" rice but now it says brown rice, so I started to eat those sometimes as well.  My wife doesn't like the lundberghs because they fall apart.  I like them because they seem like the rice is more real.  BUT, they're also more than a dollar a pack higher than the quaker So we usually get one of each.  I eat the lundbergs, everyone eles eats the quaker.  I'm still not convinced the quaker ones are bad.  But I could be wrong.  As I said, they sit easier with me.
Posted by: Victoria, Tuesday, September 22, 2009, 8:47pm; Reply: 20
In my opinion, all rice cakes taste better when they are put in the toaster oven, set on toast (or in the toaster) and very lightly toasted.  Not enough to darken the color, just enough to bring out the wonderful toasted, nutty aroma and flavor.  It makes all the difference to me, and I no longer wonder if I'm eating Styrofoam!   ;)
Posted by: Cristina, Tuesday, September 22, 2009, 8:52pm; Reply: 21
Quoted from Victoria
In my opinion, all rice cakes taste better when they are put in the toaster oven, set on toast (or in the toaster) and very lightly toasted.  Not enough to darken the color, just enough to bring out the wonderful toasted, nutty aroma and flavor.  It makes all the difference to me, and I no longer wonder if I'm eating Styrofoam!   ;)


Mmmmmm....... Amongst those messages in the packaging of Sun Rice cakes in Australia is the following Caution:

quote
" Caution: Rice cakes may ignite if heated in a toaster or grill"
:o ::) ??)
unquote

That will be something I will no try ...
Posted by: Victoria, Tuesday, September 22, 2009, 11:05pm; Reply: 22
Cristina!   ;D

Low heat is the idea here!   ;)  
Posted by: Ribbit, Tuesday, September 22, 2009, 11:48pm; Reply: 23
There you go.  Tomorrow's paper will read:  "Fire Brings Down the House.  Cause: The Lowly Ricecake."
Posted by: Cristina, Wednesday, September 23, 2009, 2:06am; Reply: 24
1800 255 999
That is the Consumer relations line (toll free in Australia) for SunRice.

I phoned them and asked them about extrussion method or not, all they could tell me is that they heat them and put them in a mold.  They do not melt them (which is what the extrussion does, is it right?)

So, with their 99% brown rice cultivated locally and seemingly no extrussion, they are a safe bet.  Swami placed them in my neutrals so they are not in my high priority at the moment, but good to know they are safe :D.
Posted by: shells, Wednesday, September 23, 2009, 7:53am; Reply: 25
Thank you Christina for all your investigative work regarding SunRice!  :D

You have confirmed what I thought about them and I have tried quite a few brands and some from Aldi for example do not crumble into grains, have more additives (oils etc.) and are drier and harder so I am assuming use the extrussion method.   :X
Posted by: Cristina, Wednesday, September 23, 2009, 8:03am; Reply: 26
:)
Posted by: glamour, Wednesday, September 23, 2009, 4:31pm; Reply: 27
So it's OK to eat rice cakes? I'll have to try them in the oven, they do remind me of Styrofoam.  ::)
Posted by: Victoria, Wednesday, September 23, 2009, 5:34pm; Reply: 28
toaster oven  :-)
Posted by: Brighid45, Wednesday, September 23, 2009, 9:00pm; Reply: 29
I love them toasted lightly in a toaster oven. As Victoria said, it gives them a wonderful flavor and changes the texture. Try them warm with a little almond butter.  8)
Posted by: JJR, Wednesday, September 23, 2009, 10:45pm; Reply: 30
Styrofoam?  No way.  I don't eat bread so these things I guess replace that for me.  Except I don't really eat many grains with a meal anymore.  There usually by themselves with some nuts or nut butters.  Maybe some berries.      
Posted by: teri, Wednesday, September 23, 2009, 11:52pm; Reply: 31
My stint with rice cakes came during my transition period from SAD to BTD when I dropped wheat and bread. Now I don't eat either and don't miss either. But, to take away the question of toxicity of rice cakes, why not just make them at home (without puffing, of course). You could just mash up some cooked basmati with a little water, salt and some sort of binding ingredient (rice flour?) and then fry in ghee. Would be more like an oatcake, I suppose, and not at all like styrofoam, but with the exact same ingredients. You could put in whatever other flavourings you like and use it the same way you do the commercial ones. Sounds like it might work.
Posted by: Lola, Thursday, September 24, 2009, 12:10am; Reply: 32
toasted rice tortillas, kind of.....like cookies
http://www.dadamo.com/typebase4/recipedepictor7x.cgi?44

or quinoa
http://www.dadamo.com/typebase4/recipedepictor7x.cgi?488

or any combination
http://www.dadamo.com/typebase4/recipedepictor7x.cgi?568
Posted by: Sharon, Thursday, September 24, 2009, 5:49am; Reply: 33
Thanks for all your posts on this topic. I'm learning and thinking about rice and rice cakes.  Very interesting!
Posted by: RedLilac, Friday, September 25, 2009, 2:13pm; Reply: 34
I live on Lundburg rice cakes.  It is my snack of choice.  I donít like the Quaker brand.
Posted by: proto, Saturday, September 26, 2009, 6:59am; Reply: 35
So I guess the problem with extrusion is that it will probably produce acrylamide, right? So will kill rodents but not necessary humans:-) Should be avoided more as neurotoxin than carcinogen if that makes any difference as we don't want to end up being veggies. There are also some breakfast cereal that are thought of being a healthy alternative to the mainstream sugar loaded stuff but they seem to be made also with this extrusion process.
Posted by: Ribbit, Saturday, September 26, 2009, 1:07pm; Reply: 36
I wish Dr. D would come tell us which type he tested.  We eat Kroger brand.  And we eat a lot of them.
Posted by: Victoria, Saturday, September 26, 2009, 5:07pm; Reply: 37
Since Peter in all ways encourages us to go for the most natural, organic, whole food possible, I'm going to stick with plain and simple puffed whole grains.  I'd rather err on the side of caution.
Posted by: paul clucas, Saturday, September 26, 2009, 7:55pm; Reply: 38
Be assured that as soon Dr. D. is seen slamming particuluar brands and especially particular multinationals the tide of unoffical isolation would turn into unofficial hostility.

For no apparent reason 60 minutes, and every other investigative journalist would start churning subtle (not so subtle to us) hit peices.  We would have even further difficulties when we try to talk to people about the wonderful help that we have received.

I do not doubt that the good Dr. has taken some very good advice about this.

"For by wise counsel thou shalt make thy war: and in multitude of counsellors there is safety" Psalms 24:6
Posted by: Chandon, Saturday, September 26, 2009, 7:58pm; Reply: 39
I had read about not eating puffed foods, but the GTD stimulated me to try rice cakes again. I eat the Lundberg brown rice ones, which I can get at Trader Joe's. I love having them with almond butter and honey. I don't have them daily. I have always loved puffed millet.
Posted by: Possum, Saturday, September 26, 2009, 10:23pm; Reply: 40
Quoted from paul clucas
Be assured that as soon Dr. D. is seen slamming particuluar brands and especially particular multinationals the tide of unoffical isolation would turn into unofficial hostility. For no apparent reason 60 minutes, and every other investigative journalist would start churning subtle (not so subtle to us) hit peices.  We would have even further difficulties when we try to talk to people about the wonderful help that we have received.
I do not doubt that the good Dr. has taken some very good advice about this.
"For by wise counsel thou shalt make thy war: and in multitude of counsellors there is safety" Psalms 24:6


Very good point!!!:D
Posted by: Ribbit, Sunday, September 27, 2009, 1:46am; Reply: 41
Quoted from paul clucas
Be assured that as soon Dr. D. is seen slamming particuluar brands and especially particular multinationals the tide of unoffical isolation would turn into unofficial hostility.



What I meant was that I'd like to hear his take on the subject, not that I wanted a specific list of brands.  Does that make sense?
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