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BTD Forums  /  Eat Right 4 Your Type  /  If anyone is still eating Carrageenan
Posted by: Andrea AWsec, Sunday, July 26, 2009, 1:00pm
Maybe this will convince you to not ingest it anymore :-/


Quoted Text
2. Carrageenan is classified as an algal polysaccharide produced from seaweed. It’s safety for human
consumption was questioned after it was discovered that it could injure the intestines of laboratory rats
in 1982. Animal studies have shown that sulfated polysaccharides, such as carrageenan, increase
hydrogen sulfide production. Hydrogen sulfide production inhibits the metabolism of butyric acid and
other short chain fatty acids, which in turn starve colonocytes, and induce lesions similar to ulcerative
colitis. Avoiding sulfate consumption from preservatives such as sulfites and sulfur dioxide may be
beneficial for IBD patients.

Carrageenan is ubiquitous in our food supply, and can be found in all sorts of alternative milk products
such as soy milk, rice milk, grain milks, rice dream, soy dream, and tofu products, veggie burgers,
cereals, baked goods, tooth pastes, supplements, and soups. The worst offender is the herb Irish moss
because it is pure carrageenan.
Posted by: Boedica, Sunday, July 26, 2009, 1:55pm; Reply: 1
I've read that carrageenan is used to de-ice the wings of aircraft. My ice cream loving friend took a class on same and was told the carrageenan was used to prevent ice crystals from forming.
Perhaps most evil is it's presence in infant formula.

Always love the chance to dis this c**p!
Posted by: NewHampshireGirl, Sunday, July 26, 2009, 2:06pm; Reply: 2
They put that in infant formula?  :o   How dare they!!!!!! >:(
Posted by: NewHampshireGirl, Sunday, July 26, 2009, 2:19pm; Reply: 3
Andrea, can you give us the source of the quoted information?  I would like to look into this further.  I did a quick search just now and can find only good things about carageenan.  I avoid it carageenan, myself, but would like to do further research.  Thanks a bunch!  :)
Posted by: Andrea AWsec, Sunday, July 26, 2009, 4:50pm; Reply: 4
Most times I do a scholar search for research info I will try and look at my history and see if  I can locate it. :)
found it.. scroll down on the page and you will see it. Loads of references on the bottom of the page too.
http://www.fratellonemedical.com/upload/pdf/ibd.pdf
Posted by: Chandon, Sunday, July 26, 2009, 4:56pm; Reply: 5
That is really scary!
Posted by: newtypeA, Sunday, July 26, 2009, 5:06pm; Reply: 6
It's in practically EVERYTHING. How in the world do you eat a balanced diet--on a tiny budget no less--and stay away from this stuff? Kroger has a natural foods section, but most of it is horrendously expensive. And there's still carrageenan in some of it.
Posted by: Andrea AWsec, Sunday, July 26, 2009, 5:09pm; Reply: 7
What foods are you eating?

It is important to eat food that is not processed. In the end it will always be cheaper to eat food that is not processed. Look at the unit prices of the food you buy that is the real price.
Posted by: Melissa_J, Sunday, July 26, 2009, 5:28pm; Reply: 8
It has always given my son diarrhea.  I react more to xanthan gum and guar gum, but we all try to avoid carageenan.

I don't think it's in rice dream anymore, but it's in pretty much every fortified soymilk that exists.  It's cheapest and safest to make your own, but there are some brands that are just soybeans and water.  You don't need to buy a soymilk maker to make it, just a blender and something to filter it through.  I don't have a recipe for soymilk, but I'm sure somebody does (my son is way too picky and didn't like it when I made it in the soymilk maker...turns out almond milk is better for him as a teacher so I try to sneak that into things where he won't notice.)
Posted by: newtypeA, Sunday, July 26, 2009, 5:30pm; Reply: 9
Well, let's see, dairy products have it (Type As are not supposed to eat a lot of dairy, but it's practically a staple in my diet). Cow's milk, alternative milks, cottage cheese, I think ricotta cheese has it too, and yogurt, sour cream, kefir, ice cream...

I haven't checked my pantry or freezer yet, but I'll bet dollars to donuts there's carrageenan in 90% of the stuff in there.
Posted by: ruthiegirl, Sunday, July 26, 2009, 5:32pm; Reply: 10
Quoted from newtypeA
It's in practically EVERYTHING. How in the world do you eat a balanced diet--on a tiny budget no less--and stay away from this stuff? Kroger has a natural foods section, but most of it is horrendously expensive. And there's still carrageenan in some of it.


I don't buy a whole lot of pre-packaged "natural foods."

I buy fresh meat, eggs, fish, poultry, nuts, produce, grains (quinoa and rice), spices, tea leaves/bags, etc. For the kids I also buy milk, cheese, and yogurt. As an A, you can eat a lot of beans for protein (dried beans are CHEAP!!! and have no additives whatsoever.)

The only things I buy from the "natural foods section" of the store is quinoa and some specialty flours (white rice, brown rice, and spelt) and brown rice pasta. I'm not buying ready-made soups, sauces, TV dinners, etc. Plain rice and spices cost less than "rice mixes".

Carageen is in a lot of the "milk alternatives" (rice milk, soy milk, almond milk, etc) but I don't use those. I make my own almond milk from almond butter and water when I need "milk" for a recipe.
Posted by: 815 (Guest), Sunday, July 26, 2009, 6:03pm; Reply: 11
Quoted from newtypeA
It's in practically EVERYTHING. How in the world do you eat a balanced diet--on a tiny budget no less--and stay away from this stuff? Kroger has a natural foods section, but most of it is horrendously expensive. And there's still carrageenan in some of it.


I hear ya sista. or is it.brotha? I just got my son to drink blue diamond almond milk instead of soy milk and it has carageenan in it. This was a feat in itself because he's been drinking Eden soy most of his life because he was allergic to cow's milk since a baby... and the Eden soy had carageenan also..so now he's having the lesser of the two evils.  He's an O. He's also 17 and knows everything..he pretty much refuses to follow the O diet, but I'm trying to slowly change his diet so that he notices he feels better..  I (and my Chi Gong Master) always say ..."There's good, better and best"  Don't get upset if you can't follow things exactly...we should strive to do the best we can at that time and just try to work up to doing better.  

I used to complain in the beginning to Dr. D that I was having a really hard time trying to give up all the avoids..He said don't worry so much about giving up avoids but to get as much beneficial foods in my body as I can...That really took the stress off and I was able to slowly give them up one at a time.  Some people can go cold turkey, some people have to wean themselves slowly..I think it has a lot to do with age.  Younger people are more able to go cold turkey..older people have been eating that way for a long time..and their body is used to compromising from the abuse..almost freaks when there's nothing there to abuse it anymore, and we start getting anxiety, depression and angry. The body is an interesting little house for our souls isn't it?
Posted by: newtypeA, Sunday, July 26, 2009, 6:57pm; Reply: 12
I'm a "sista", Mayflowers.  ;)

Yeah, it is tough trying to dodge all the avoids. Can't have tomatoes, can't have potatoes, can't have milk, can't have ice cream, can't have regular bread, can't have peppers (no more stuffed peppers for me??? (eek)), can't have oranges or orange juice,......

I like the idea of adding more of the beneficial stuff to the diet instead of focusing on avoids too much. That said, I'm still avoiding milk for now because my ear canals start acting up (even if it's ice cream).
Posted by: Maria Giovanna, Sunday, July 26, 2009, 7:27pm; Reply: 13
Citric acid is ubiquitous also in Italy in packaged or canned food, but carragenaan is just in alternative milks and may be some baby formulas, but not on dairy, if not dairy pudding or icecream, but I avoid 99 % icecream.
They could have sneaked it in bottled sauces and mayo, but I do not buy, or I read the label before if I like to buy the item.
As an A secretor I do not react a lot to citric acid, but I avoid carragenan for my celiac gut healing.
Maria Giovanna
Posted by: NewHampshireGirl, Sunday, July 26, 2009, 8:46pm; Reply: 14
Quoted from Andrea AWsec
Most times I do a scholar search for research info I will try and look at my history and see if  I can locate it. :)
found it.. scroll down on the page and you will see it. Loads of references on the bottom of the page too.
http://www.fratellonemedical.com/upload/pdf/ibd.pdf


Thanks, Andrea.  I read the whole thing.  I printed it out for my daughter to use as reference as she has diverticulitis and this information should be of help.  Also, of course, I have encouraged her to follow the BTD.  ;)
Posted by: ieatmeatnlikeit, Sunday, August 30, 2009, 2:11pm; Reply: 15
I recall reading in the carrageenan reports that stood out for me, the small but important detail which seemed to make all the difference and then actually became moot was something about the chains being "long  or short" the long being O.K . and the short being "bad" but the catch is that in the gut the long gets broken down into the short and ends up being bad after all.
iemnli
Posted by: Tea Rose, Sunday, August 30, 2009, 3:12pm; Reply: 16
I buy very few packaged foods, but one day I bought Applegate Farms sliced Turkey breast
(http://www.applegatefarms.com/Products/ProductDetail.aspx?id=1710)which was in a vacuum pack and hanging near the deli.  I got it home and ate some and knew it had something in it.  You guessed it - carageenan!
Posted by: Chloe, Monday, August 31, 2009, 7:11pm; Reply: 17
http://www.edenfoods.com/articles/view.php?articles_id=82

FYI...
Posted by: Gale D., Monday, August 31, 2009, 7:21pm; Reply: 18
Does the GTD take into account the difference between food grade carrageenan and degraded (low molecular weight) carrageenan  as described in the article, or does Dr. D considered them the same for GTD purposes?
Posted by: Tea Rose, Monday, August 31, 2009, 7:48pm; Reply: 19
Interesting article...thanks for posting it.
Posted by: Lola, Monday, August 31, 2009, 10:44pm; Reply: 20
considered same
Posted by: Chandon, Monday, August 31, 2009, 11:39pm; Reply: 21
Quoted from Andrea AWsec
Maybe this will convince you to not ingest it anymore :-/


Irish moss is used in beer making. Interesting.

Posted by: O plus, Monday, August 31, 2009, 11:56pm; Reply: 22
Quoted from Andrea AWsec
Maybe this will convince you to not ingest it anymore :-/





I don't eat anything with the word 'Irish' in it..
Posted by: SquarePeg, Wednesday, September 2, 2009, 6:15pm; Reply: 23
Quoted from Tea Rose
I buy very few packaged foods, but one day I bought Applegate Farms sliced Turkey breast
(http://www.applegatefarms.com/Products/ProductDetail.aspx?id=1710)which was in a vacuum pack and hanging near the deli.  I got it home and ate some and knew it had something in it.  You guessed it - carageenan!
We used to buy this because at some point it didn't have carageenan in it.  Then I started to see it appear, lastly in the Smoked Turkey variety.  AFAIK, the roast beef still doesn't have it.
Posted by: Possum, Tuesday, November 23, 2010, 2:35am; Reply: 24
Doing some researching & catch up reading & came across this thread... On reading the link, it says that it is used "in the making of rennet-free gelatin (carrageen), preferred by vegetarians, since true gelatin is an animal product."

Just had a horrible thought, I wonder if the vegetarian capsules that vitamin &  supplement companies use, are made from this??!! :o ::)
Posted by: C_Sharp, Tuesday, November 23, 2010, 3:39am; Reply: 25
Vegetarian capsules typically are made out cellulose, but as with anything else one needs to check the ingredients to know.
Posted by: Possum, Tuesday, November 23, 2010, 3:49am; Reply: 26
Aaah of course...they usually say that... Cheers C_sharp ;)
Posted by: Lola, Tuesday, November 23, 2010, 6:35am; Reply: 27
Quoted Text
used "in the making of rennet-free gelatin (carrageen), preferred by vegetarians, since true gelatin is an animal product."


one of the many reasons to choose DPN over so many caps out there.....
Posted by: Possum, Tuesday, November 23, 2010, 9:01am; Reply: 28
;)
Posted by: brinyskysail, Wednesday, November 24, 2010, 3:33am; Reply: 29
I stopped eating ANYTHING with carrageenan in it about a year ago.  It gives me crazy gastrointestinal unhappiness.  I definitely have a sensitive digestive system, but it is known to cause problems in "normal" people as well.  I've read some nasty things about it. :o  Be sure to read labels for everything, not just foods; carageenan is in a lot of supplements too.  It can also be found in toothpaste, but unless you're dining on oral hygiene products :P, I don't know that toothpaste would be a problem.
Posted by: Goldie, Wednesday, November 24, 2010, 2:01pm; Reply: 30
well............................  For weeks now I have not had any icecream.. so maybe I can say I no longer eat any unless its in mayo?? need to look?? should not have that anyway.. I am looking to replace salad dressings.. even though I have given up most .. I still wish for some here and there..

But to think we feed kids with store bought foods becomes ever more ridiculous!  buy fresh.. cook fresh it does not take long to cook fresh.. fo O's no more then 10 minutes on the outside for a fam of 4..

saves me money in every way..

as O I can talk but for other types.. I still say save money buy fresh.. cook fresh.. its worth it..


Posted by: ruthiegirl, Wednesday, November 24, 2010, 2:12pm; Reply: 31
Quoted from newtypeA
It's in practically EVERYTHING. How in the world do you eat a balanced diet--on a tiny budget no less--and stay away from this stuff? Kroger has a natural foods section, but most of it is horrendously expensive. And there's still carrageenan in some of it.


By not using many packaged products. A bag of almonds, which can make 2 gallons of almond milk, is cheaper than buying 2 quarts of carageenan-laced almond milk in a box. There are no weird additives in fresh produce, eggs, meat, dried beans, uncooked grains, or flours. Many frozen vegetables and fruits,  and canned goods (fruits, veggies, fish) are also "clean," but you have to read labels carefully. Chocoolate chips are fairly "clean" and rather inexpensive, and they make homemade baked goods much more appealing to the kids.
Posted by: Drea, Wednesday, November 24, 2010, 2:42pm; Reply: 32
Since giving up sugar and wheat, I also (inadvertently) gave up processed foods. I'm with ruthie, buy foods in their purest forms and you'll not have to worry about additives or avoids sneaking in where you don't want them. Also, I read labels on everything, whether ingested or not. It's become habit.
Posted by: O in Virginia, Wednesday, November 24, 2010, 2:45pm; Reply: 33
Quoted Text
..and their body is used to compromising from the abuse..almost freaks when there's nothing there to abuse it anymore, and we start getting anxiety, depression and angry. The body is an interesting little house for our souls isn't it?


It sure is, Mayflowers.  We store so much bad stuff in our bodies over the years, toxic feelings and toxic substances, that if we took it all away at once we might disintegrate.  Fortunately, the body has its own wisdom.  Dr. D.'s advice to start out by concentrating on eating beneficials before taking away avoids seems intelligent.  We have to start building up before we can start tearing down.  I'm a cold turkey type myself - because my personality is "I want it right now!"  I'm impatient for the next event, but a step at a time and being attentive to our bodies in the here and now is the healthier way to go.  I did a clean sweep of my pantry a couple of weeks ago and got rid of most of the packaged/prepared foods.  The Boys Scouts were doing a food drive so I bagged it up for them.  I felt kind of guilty about it because I knew they weren't really healthy - Rice a roni and Zatarains beans & rice, Near East Cous Cous, boxes of pasta, jars of sauce, stuff like that.  Not unhealthy things in themselves, BT depending of course, but who knows what additives throw in.  Throwing it away when there are so many hungry people now seemed a crime, though, in view of the increasingly difficult to meet demands on our city food pantry.  :(  I suppose one would tolerate carageenen or citric acid when there's no other choice...but I don't like that the fact that there is no other choice, nor the attitude of, "Here's my junk, it's good enough for you," even though I doubt many of the food pantry's clients are doing BTD anyway.  Gah!  I'm feeling a little depressed today about the state of our society.
Posted by: Maja, Wednesday, November 24, 2010, 3:08pm; Reply: 34
Greetings all:

I am perplexed by this thread and the research quoted . . .

I wonder if distinctions are being lost . .

Edensoy (whose products I do not use), posted information about carrageenan distinguishing between food-grade and non-food grade products.  

According to this source (and I don't know how credible it is), food grade carrageenan is perfectly safe; it is the non-food grade carrageenan that has been shown --  when ingested in huge quantities -- to be a carcinogen.

Carrageenan may be an avoid for most or all of us .  .. but is a bit of jelly from seaweed really so dangerous as this discussion implies . . .?

Remember, apple seeds contain arsenic.

Regards,

Maja ;)
Posted by: Lola, Thursday, November 25, 2010, 12:22am; Reply: 35
your body knows best!

to each their own......some perceive avoids drastically, other s less susceptible, do not

it is what it is, and again......individuality is here to stay! :)

no need for you to be perplexed.....simply consider the many nonnies posting,
and rejoice in your secretorhood!
Posted by: Maja, Thursday, November 25, 2010, 2:41pm; Reply: 36
Lola:

Thanks for this distinction -- one I don't usually think about -- the difference between secretor and non-secretor . . .

Emphasizes, as you say, how indvidual we are!

Happy Thanksgiving to all.

Regards,

Maja ;)
Posted by: Lola, Thursday, November 25, 2010, 4:21pm; Reply: 37
:)
Posted by: DenverFoodie, Thursday, November 25, 2010, 4:27pm; Reply: 38
How can you realistically not?  ??) :-/
Posted by: Possum, Thursday, November 25, 2010, 8:41pm; Reply: 39
Quoted from Maja
Greetings all:

I am perplexed by this thread and the research quoted . . .

I wonder if distinctions are being lost . .

Edensoy (whose products I do not use), posted information about carrageenan distinguishing between food-grade and non-food grade products.  

According to this source (and I don't know how credible it is), food grade carrageenan is perfectly safe; it is the non-food grade carrageenan that has been shown --  when ingested in huge quantities -- to be a carcinogen.

Carrageenan may be an avoid for most or all of us .  .. but is a bit of jelly from seaweed really so dangerous as this discussion implies . . .?
If you are a nonnie ::) then possibly (highly likely) yes, yes yes!! Also I always ask myself when reading info re products, additives, etc - is the response unbiased? Do Eden soy put carrageenan in their product? If the answer is yes, then you can assume they would defend it... ??) ::)

Posted by: brinyskysail, Friday, November 26, 2010, 12:05am; Reply: 40
Quoted from DenverFoodie
How can you realistically not?  ??) :-/


how can you not what?
Posted by: grey rabbit, Friday, November 26, 2010, 1:35am; Reply: 41
Quoted Text
The worst offender is the herb Irish moss
because it is pure carrageenan.


This is perplexing as Irish Moss is a diamond on my swami.
Posted by: san j, Friday, November 26, 2010, 1:40am; Reply: 42
Quoted from grey rabbit


This is perplexing as Irish Moss is a diamond on my swami.

::)
See concurrent thread "You are unfortunate enough". It's exactly what I just posted! SWAMI/Dr. D'Adamo is calling it a superfood, while others say it's unmitigated poison that no one should ever ingest. Wow. ::)


Posted by: C_Sharp, Friday, November 26, 2010, 2:18am; Reply: 43
I think we are talking two different things.

Your SWAMI should have an entry for carragenan that has been processed to be used a food thickener and emulsifier.

There should be another entry for an unprocessed seaweed - Irish moss.

Same plant but it changes rating when it is processed.


I have never used the plant or the extracted product.

I have drank beverages with carrageenan and that does not agree with me.
Posted by: Cristina, Friday, November 26, 2010, 2:37am; Reply: 44
Carrageenan is an avoid under carbohydrates
Iris Moss is a superfood under Live Foods

That is in my daughters Swami, she is A+, non-secretor, A2, MM and with thyroid issues...
;D
Posted by: Lola, Friday, November 26, 2010, 2:52am; Reply: 45
like soy, good for some, toxic for others

and it s processed lecithin, also has different values....

I do not find this either perplexing or utterly alarming....
it is, what it is..... ;)

I Moss is also a diamond in mine
and C a toxin, no biggie
Posted by: san j, Friday, November 26, 2010, 2:59am; Reply: 46
Quoted from Lola
like soy, good for some, toxic for others

and it s processed lecithin, also has different values....

I do not find this either perplexing or utterly alarming....
it is, what it is..... ;)

I Moss is also a diamond in mine
and C a toxin, no biggie


I'm with you!  :D :D A "toxin" doesn't have to be, as you say, a "biggie".
Posted by: Lola, Friday, November 26, 2010, 3:32am; Reply: 47
one man s toxin is another man s beneficial ;)

Quoted Text

Anytime you want to induce mucosa inflammation (for example, to test an anti-inflammatory drug) you subcutaneous inject carageenan. Carrageenan-induced edema is a biphasic event, with early hyperemia due to the release of histamine and serotonin and the delayed oedema due to the release of bradykinin and prostaglandin.

So, if it does not amplify lectin mediated events, it induces the mucosal changes that eventually will provide the environment for lectin activity.
Dr. D
Posted by: Cristina, Friday, November 26, 2010, 4:26am; Reply: 48
The thing to have clear in here is that we should not make the assumption that because Carraagenan is a toxic, Irish Moss should also be ... They are two different products/food items and Dr D is treating them as such ... it is Ok to ask too, it is all a learnig process for all of us ...  :)
Posted by: Maja, Saturday, November 27, 2010, 2:55pm; Reply: 49
Greetings all:

I think  there is a possible factual distinction not addressed in this discussion -- which is important for all who wish to learn -- and in addition to whether a particular food may be toxic for some and beneficial for others -- a point on which we all agree.

The factual distinction is whether there is a difference between food-grade carrageenan and carrageenan used for de-icing airplane wings!

Hoping to learn more.

Regards,

Maja ;)

Posted by: Lola, Saturday, November 27, 2010, 7:07pm; Reply: 50
perhaps you might wish to google aeronautics and compare the formula??? ;)

I am only interested in the one added to my food.....

as with vegetable glycerin......who knew it is the same as the one added to facial cream and cosmetics???

by comparing the formula, or chemical composition, you can know if it s one and the same
in this case, it is glycerol.....
Quoted Text
Dr D
Glycerine is the only effective humectant that can be used by non-secretors, since it can be shunted to either fat metabolism or glucose production, depending on metabolic status. Glycerine can be a carb on occasion, a fat precursor on occasion, a phosphoglyceride precursor on occasion, and it can simply pass through the body unused. [In other words, it fills the body's energy need of the moment, without jarring serum sugar levels or stimulating fat storage.] For non-secretors, this is perfect. Thus, although it is there [in the food bars] for moisture retention,
it also tends to optimize fat<->carb<->fat conversion which is genetically a problem with non-secretors.

Glycerine is plain old CH2OHCHOHCH2OH or glycerol, nothing more
Posted by: Cristina, Saturday, November 27, 2010, 7:14pm; Reply: 51
I am sure Dr D is only listing the food grade Carrageenan ??  :)
Posted by: Lola, Saturday, November 27, 2010, 7:46pm; Reply: 52
perhaps Dr D uses it to fly his swami Boeing!!! ;D
Posted by: C_Sharp, Saturday, November 27, 2010, 7:50pm; Reply: 53
Quoted from Maja

The factual distinction is whether there is a difference between food-grade carrageenan and carrageenan used for de-icing airplane wings!


There are several species of seaweed used for carrageenan production. Their different characteristics influence the suitability of derived carrageenan in food manufacturing. A food technologist will specify the type of seaweed and the processing to create a desired product.

The difference between carrageenan for food products and industrial products is related to the purity of product and what else is put with it.

For instance, carrageenan products use for airplane deicing contain only a small amount of carrageenan (usually 5% or less). The products are mostly glycol. Making it unsuitable for use in food.
Posted by: Maja, Saturday, November 27, 2010, 10:19pm; Reply: 54
Greetings all:

Lola and C_Sharp . . . you both have an impressive amount of information about this stuff --

Thanks for making it available to the rest of us.

Regards,

Maja ;)
Posted by: grey rabbit, Saturday, November 27, 2010, 11:33pm; Reply: 55
So if a food item says "carrageenan from Irish Moss", does that make it OK since Irish Moss is OK?
Posted by: Cristina, Saturday, November 27, 2010, 11:52pm; Reply: 56
If Carrageenan is an avoid in your list and Irish Moss is an allowed food, I will still avoid anything that lists Carrageenan (even though it comes from Irish Moss ) and only include in my diet the live version of Irish Moss.  Countless times Dr D has noted the difference in ratings for live foods and concentrated food ... Carrageenan being a Condiment/additive is a concentrated food that obviously changes its rating compare to the live source ...  ;D
Posted by: C_Sharp, Sunday, November 28, 2010, 12:31am; Reply: 57
Carrageenan is always from Irish Moss.
Posted by: Possum, Sunday, November 28, 2010, 2:29am; Reply: 58
Quoted from C_Sharp
Carrageenan is always from Irish Moss.
That's what I thought ??)

Posted by: Cristina, Sunday, November 28, 2010, 2:36am; Reply: 59
Ok, I updated my last post to say 'even though it comes from Irish Moss' instead of 'whether it comes from Irish Moss or not'  ;D :) :) :)
Posted by: Drea, Sunday, November 28, 2010, 4:28am; Reply: 60
Has anyone actually seen Irish Moss available fresh?
Posted by: C_Sharp, Sunday, November 28, 2010, 4:57am; Reply: 61
Quoted from Drea
Has anyone actually seen Irish Moss available fresh?


Never. I presumed that was because I did not live in Ireland. It actually grows other place along the Atlantic coast (but no Atlantic coast in Indiana).

Here it is dried:

http://www.amazon.com/Fresh-Whole-Irish-Raw-Wildcrafted/dp/B002EUZEVY
Posted by: Cristina, Sunday, November 28, 2010, 6:46am; Reply: 62
The same as with sun-dried tomatoes, dried apricots, spirulina, wakame ... irish moss can be eating dried ...  :)

correction, maybe I should say that it can be purchased dried, then soaked ... :)
Posted by: ruthiegirl, Sunday, November 28, 2010, 4:22pm; Reply: 63
The fact that carageen is used to de-ice airplane wings has absolutely nothing to do with its suitability as a food. Water is used as an industrial solvent and coolant, yet I include it in my diet!
Posted by: Possum, Sunday, November 28, 2010, 6:45pm; Reply: 64
Hopefully not tap water? :D
Don't you think that water is a little less innocuous than a substance that de-ices aeroplane wings ??) ;)
Isn't that a little like comparing water to coke :-/ yet coke can (or certainly could)  be used to strip grease of overalls... ;)
Posted by: Melissa_J, Monday, November 29, 2010, 4:50am; Reply: 65
I've seen (and eaten) fresh Irish Moss at Cafe Gratitude.  They use it in many of their vegan recipes...my son loves that place because he can eat all the desserts.  

My son reacts badly to carrageenan (tummy ache and diarrhea) but didn't have any trouble after eating (and eating a lot of) the desserts there.
Posted by: BluesSinger, Friday, December 24, 2010, 1:49pm; Reply: 66
I just am looking at this Organic Good Karma brand - Whole Grain Ricemilk I've been drinking and it has this Carrageenan as one of the last ingredients.  So how much can possibly be in this milk?  Must be a very small amount.  

I'll have to wean myself off it slowly if I need to as it's the only alternative milk source I use and I sadly don't have time to make homemade rice milk right now.  

I can't have soy and almond milk has the same issues.  I'm thinking I"ll check into the Rice Dream someone mentioned in this thread not containing this Carrageenan anymore.
Posted by: ruthiegirl, Friday, December 24, 2010, 1:59pm; Reply: 67
We all need to make this diet work with our lives. If you're overall in good health, and don't see any obvious ill effects from the carrageenan, then this may be a compromise you're willing to live with. But if you have health issues that aren't resolving, you may need to be more strict. Certainly, if there's a brand available that's healthier, you should get that one.

Carrageenan is a fairly concentrated food; it's always used in small amounts (fractions of a teaspoon per cup of liquid) so the fact that it's listed last in the ingredient list doesn't mean much. How much salt, in volume, do you need to make a food high in sodium?

I feel differently about the avoid oils found in some rice milks. Oils are usually consumed by the tablespoonful, so a gram of oil per cup of rice milk truly is a tiny portion (and we dont' even know how much of the oil content may be from the natural rice oil to begin with.) I avoid the "avoid" oils if I can (which is why I personally make my own, well, that plus saving money) but I  don't feel so strongly about consuming it occasionally.
Posted by: BluesSinger, Friday, December 24, 2010, 3:10pm; Reply: 68
Good points Ruthiegirl
Posted by: Lola, Friday, December 24, 2010, 8:28pm; Reply: 69
the bigger the issue, in your case, arthritis, the more compliant you should try being, for your swami to work right for you!!
the tiny amounts of avoids may be hindering your positive results.....think about it :)
Posted by: Green Root, Sunday, December 26, 2010, 8:36am; Reply: 70
I haven't noticed that ricemilk (Rice Dream) contains carrageenan. Instead it has sunflower oil.
Posted by: Green Root, Sunday, December 26, 2010, 8:51am; Reply: 71
In the package of Finnish organic cream:
"Carrageenan is a gum of plant which make the homogenizing of the milk (or cream) unnecessary."

As we say in Finland:
"Swamp there, squishy here."
Posted by: Green Root, Sunday, December 26, 2010, 8:52am; Reply: 72
What do you say about (opti-)MSM? That should be a healthy sulfur product.
Posted by: Lola, Sunday, December 26, 2010, 5:51pm; Reply: 73
use the search window top right.....
like so, and decide
http://www.google.com/custom?q=msm&cof=AH%3Acenter%3BAWFID%3A4452213b291e6613%3B&domains=dadamo.com&sitesearch=dadamo.com
Posted by: Vivian, Sunday, December 26, 2010, 6:25pm; Reply: 74
First time on the forum...  Question: Is the SWAMI for anyone to use or is it just for the professional folks like ND's & nutritionists, etc?
Posted by: Lola, Sunday, December 26, 2010, 6:31pm; Reply: 75
swami express is for public use!
click on the product window, top right
welcome!
:)
here
http://www.4yourtype.com/departments.asp?dept=48
Posted by: Vivian, Sunday, December 26, 2010, 6:43pm; Reply: 76
Thanks Lola for your info on SWAMI Express...I'm going to get on that right away.    
Posted by: Lola, Sunday, December 26, 2010, 6:45pm; Reply: 77
:)
have you already read the GTD book?

that should definitely come first.....
it has all the data you need to input into swami, and shows how to do it
Posted by: Vivian, Sunday, December 26, 2010, 6:57pm; Reply: 78
Yes...I have read the BTD Book, I have the Cook for your type & a cool nutrition guide.  I have made some  adjustments to my diet already...no more pork, rarely eat beef, try to increase alkaline intake of foods, no more coffee, etc., but am about 95 lbs. overweight, low energy.  Some of the other changes (breads, cereals, etc.) are harder for me.  I am attempting to refocus and have gone to the forum for the first time to get support & re-energize my resolve.  I need help organizing...meal plans, grocery lists, recipies, good substitutions for the Avoid things I eat now...I also want help in determining my genotype.  I tried the kit but got flustered...  Lots going on here...thanks.
Posted by: KimonoKat, Monday, December 27, 2010, 12:52am; Reply: 79
Quoted from Vivian
Yes...I have read the BTD Book, I have the Cook for your type & a cool nutrition guide.  I have made some  adjustments to my diet already...no more pork, rarely eat beef, try to increase alkaline intake of foods, no more coffee, etc., but am about 95 lbs. overweight, low energy.  Some of the other changes (breads, cereals, etc.) are harder for me.  I am attempting to refocus and have gone to the forum for the first time to get support & re-energize my resolve.  I need help organizing...meal plans, grocery lists, recipies, good substitutions for the Avoid things I eat now...I also want help in determining my genotype.  I tried the kit but got flustered...  Lots going on here...thanks.


Post your measurement conclusions (index vs ring finger lengths; torso vs height; leg differences... etc., and I'm sure one of the GTD experts will help you.
Posted by: Vivian, Monday, December 27, 2010, 12:58am; Reply: 80
Thanks KimonoKat.  I will do that.   :)
Posted by: Vivian, Monday, December 27, 2010, 1:02am; Reply: 81
Hi Lola.  I realize now that in your previous post you were asking me if I had read the GTD.   I read too fast & thought you were asking me about the BTD.   :-/  To answer you correctly, I have not read the GTD, but will follow through with doing so.  It seems that there is alot more information there.  I'll also work on getting a SWAMI as soon as I can.  Thank you.
Posted by: san j, Monday, December 27, 2010, 3:18am; Reply: 82
Quoted from Vivian
Yes...I have read the BTD Book, I have the Cook for your type & a cool nutrition guide.  I have made some  adjustments to my diet already...no more pork, rarely eat beef, try to increase alkaline intake of foods, no more coffee, etc.


Just wondering why you gave up coffee after reading Dr. D'Adamo's Blood Type guidelines for type A.  ??)

He highly recommends it for A in those books. Why not include a bit of coffee in the morning? Many say a little goes a long way toward helping with weight loss, too! :)

Posted by: Goldie, Monday, December 27, 2010, 3:29am; Reply: 83
I am late in this discussion.. so take it for what it is.. I am not even addressing the item you are discussing..

I am just saying Neutrals for me are problematic.. AVOIDS are unthinkable.. as they make me react: make me miserable, water retentive, sluggish, just for starters..

so its all in the testing.. after 3 days you will know what is good or not for any item under consideration.  REMEMBER a baby aspirin is very small but powerful ! so any food ?? a little may go a long way..    

I recently added a comby item with 4 neutral ingredients and got sick with it, gained weigt, and got real puffy.. then separated each item, one of them has since become a super food while the others are not on my list any more..  

that is the learning process of this diet.. its not just learning about the lists..
Posted by: san j, Monday, December 27, 2010, 3:37am; Reply: 84
Quoted from Goldie
I am late in this discussion.. so take it for what it is.. I am not even addressing the item you are discussing..

I am just saying Neutrals for me are problematic..
REMEMBER a baby aspirin is very small but powerful ! so any food ?? a little may go a long way..    

I recently added a comby item with 4 neutral ingredients and got sick with it, gained weigt, and got real puffy.. then separated each item, one of them has since become a super food while the others are not on my list any more..  



For my part, I've never encouraged anyone to be afraid of Neutrals. Dr. D'Adamo's books certainly do not espouse such an approach, nor encourage such an apprehension. I'm very sure that if he wanted his millions of readers to be afraid/wary of neutrals, he'd do so.
There are ways to follow Dr. D'Adamo's ACTUAL guidelines and live a normal life, dietwise. We don't have to make it harder for newbies to try it than it has to be.

I welcome his readers to enjoy food, to enjoy eating, to gradually take on Beneficials and drop Avoids, just exactly as he does.  :)

That's just me. My philosophy in following Dr. D'Adamo's work is exactly HIS. Look up a few posts and see my most recent one, just ahead of this one by a few minutes. My best advice is that of Lola, who even quotes Dr. D'Adamo in her signature: "Just Follow The Book"!!! Yay Lola! :D ;)

Posted by: Lola, Monday, December 27, 2010, 5:21am; Reply: 85
:)
watch the videos on GT and measuring, together with the book
http://youtube.com/profile?user=genotypediet
Posted by: Drea, Thursday, January 6, 2011, 4:56pm; Reply: 86
I did a search on the boards and found the information listed in the Type Base, but I'm still confused on what the effects of eating carageenan are to the various blood types. I know what it says in the type base, but I don't "understand" the language.

Type A (S/NS): AVOID: Contains lectin or other agglutinin. Metabolic inhibitor.
Type B (S/NS): AVOID: Flocculates serum or precipitates serum proteins. Metabolic inhibitor.
Type AB (S/NS): AVOID: Increases polyamine or indican levels.
Type O (S/NS): AVOID: Contains component which can modify known disease susceptibility.

I was at a new cafe in town yesterday and met a DOM (Doctor of Oriental Medicine) who was telling me that soy is bad for "women", and is convinced that alternative milks (hemp, almond, rice) sold at health food stores are "healthy". I suggested that she read labels and avoid carageenan. She asked me why, and I honestly couldn't tell her. I personally avoid it, but I don't feel I have enough "layman" understanding of why something that is an avoid for all blood types (translation: everyone) is in so many "healthy" foods.

I'm hoping that someone can explain in "layman's terms" why carageenan should be avoided. If I ever see this woman again, I can give her a better explanation. Also, the woman who runs the cafe (who is a former ND  ::)) offers soy, rice, and almond milk with carageenan as an alternatives to cow's milk.
Posted by: C_Sharp, Thursday, January 6, 2011, 5:28pm; Reply: 87
Layman's terms: I avoid products containing Caragenaan because it gives me headaches.  

Incidentally, If I have not consumed caragenaan for a while, I can consume a product without feeling an affect. Product might be: A cup of hazelnut milk or a cup of rice ice cream.

But if I consume non dairy milk with caragenaan every day for a week I have lots of headaches.  I do fine with non dairy milks without additives.
Posted by: Drea, Thursday, January 6, 2011, 5:40pm; Reply: 88
Thanks C#, but I'm looking for information that I can disseminate to "non BTD-ers". Carageenan doesn't appear as any symptom for me, but I avoid it anyway. I just want to know how to explain "why" it's not good to consume. I don't understand what a "metabolic inhibitor" is and why it's bad. It sounds bad, but it's a lot easier to convince me (I've been happy following this food plan for more than 15 years) but not as easy to explain to others (in my experience).
Posted by: Lola, Thursday, January 6, 2011, 6:16pm; Reply: 89
inflammatory reaction might be a wise explanation....

http://www.dadamo.com/cgi-bin/Blah/Blah.pl?v-print/m-1185969441/
Posted by: Drea, Thursday, January 6, 2011, 9:07pm; Reply: 90
Thank you, Lola. That link helped a lot.
Posted by: Drea, Thursday, January 6, 2011, 10:15pm; Reply: 91
I decided to do a search of carageenan as if I was an advocator...here's what I found: carageenan is used in place of pro-biotics to thicken foods so that they have a longer shelf life...that's it; pro-biotics break down over time, carageenan does not. There is no added benefit to the consumer, only to the producer. I should have known...Makes me crazy, yet, empowered to continue my course of eating "whole" foods. Just because a "health" store offers a product that contains carageenan, doesn't make carageenan "healthy". Grr. It's all marketing, and one of my best friends is a "marketer". I'll prevail.  ;D (Apparently, that's important to me ;)).
Posted by: paul clucas, Friday, January 7, 2011, 3:46am; Reply: 92
Stabilizers do not rot (as quickly).  You want to consume food that needs to be fresh - because that is where the nutrition is.  Stabilizers are not food.  Extenders and stretchers are used to give you less nutrition per weight of food.  Weight is easily gauged, but nutrition is not.

The philosophical issue comes from people wanting something (more) for nothing (more).  Life does not work that way.  When we try to get something for nothing there is a price to be paid that can not always be predicted.  We are all caught up in this - our whole society is part of the web.
Posted by: cowgirl1988, Friday, January 7, 2011, 8:03am; Reply: 93
Carrageenan enhances the effects that other food lectins have on the body. Carrageenan is highly toxic for our bodies, being a carcinogen & mutagen....therefore is banned in countries excluding the USA & Japan. We should not be using this product at all!!
Posted by: SquarePeg, Friday, January 7, 2011, 5:47pm; Reply: 94
Quoted from paul clucas
-snip-
The philosophical issue comes from people wanting something (more) for nothing (more).  Life does not work that way.  When we try to get something for nothing there is a price to be paid that can not always be predicted.  We are all caught up in this - our whole society is part of the web.


Paul, this is perfect.  I just wanted to quote it for emphasis.
Posted by: san j, Sunday, January 9, 2011, 2:15am; Reply: 95
Wasn't there just another thread on Carrageenan? Can they be merged? ??)
Posted by: Lola, Sunday, January 9, 2011, 5:34am; Reply: 96
done :)
Posted by: Possum, Sunday, January 9, 2011, 5:45am; Reply: 97
Aaaah one of the supposedly "top herbalists" in NZ has carrageenan in all his products & most of them are orally administered ::)
Posted by: 15224 (Guest), Saturday, July 16, 2011, 3:37am; Reply: 98
I recently discovered the evils of cargeenan from a friend who overcame leukemia.  We were talking about healthy lifestyles and she warned me about it when I mentioned that I used coconut milk beverage in place of regular dairy.  
I took all my unused containers back to Whole Foods. I must have read almost all of the products in the aisle and refrigerated section. I only found Silk Almond milk in the refrigerated section and Wholes Foods 365 brand of unsweetened almond milk in the cartons.

I don't use it often, but I do use it in recipes from time to time when they call for milk. I do not mix dairy products with milk products.  

Honestly, eating in the US is  can definitely be harmful to your health.
Posted by: Lola, Saturday, July 16, 2011, 7:06am; Reply: 99
share all the evils you know....we might learn something new :)
Posted by: 15224 (Guest), Saturday, July 16, 2011, 2:48pm; Reply: 100
First, I noticed that I did not finish my sentence in regard to my visit to whole foods. The two products that I found were the only two that did not have cargeenan.

As for the evils, I don't know much, but the little that I do know is enough for me to spend over half hour trying to find a milk replacement without it at Whole Foods. :(

It seems that Dr. Tobacman made the connection between carageenan and cancer.  If your digestive system is not working well (as mine is at the moment) it can cause lesions and other stuff with possible unhappy endings.  Below is a quote from Dr. Weil's site:

The researcher who made the connection between carrageenan and cancer, Joanne Tobacman, an assistant professor of clinical internal medicine at the University of Iowa College of Medicine, noted that as long ago as 1972 the FDA determined that there was enough evidence from animal studies to limit the type of carrageenan that could be used in foods. However, in 1979, the FDA rescinded its proposed limitation and since then, no action has been taken

Here is another post from the "Health Advisor" also referencing Joanne Tobacman's research.

Carrageenan is a seaweed derivative used in a wide variety of foods and cosmetics. In its native form, it has not been classified as a carcinogen, but in it’s degraded or broken down form it has been classified as a possible human carcinogen by the International Agency for Research on Cancer (IARC). Joanne Tobacman, M.D., University of Iowa assistant professor of clinical internal medicine, and researcher on carrageenan, said "There seems to be enough evidence associating carrageenan with significant gastrointestinal lesions, including malignancies, to avoid ingesting it." According to Dr. Tobacman, the native carrageenan, after being subjected to stomach acids may be broken down into the degraded form and be a cancer risk. And even if it wasn’t, carrageenan cannot be identified as native or degraded on food labels, so there is no way of knowing if you are ingesting carrageenan, the carcinogen or not.

That's enough information for me to make sure that I don't knowingly eat it. Of course you can't control whether or not you are ingesting it when you eat out. :o
Posted by: passionprincess, Saturday, July 16, 2011, 3:34pm; Reply: 101
My parents make their own nut milk and "tofu" (with other types of beans/nuts - compliant ones) with this machine:

http://www.amazon.com/Koco-Tofu-Soymilk-Maker-Livart/dp/B002ZFK7RO

It would also make steamed nut milk within 30 minutes. My parents do not drink coffee (avoids), so they would make cups of warm nut milk for their morning drink.
Posted by: 14922 (Guest), Saturday, July 16, 2011, 5:05pm; Reply: 102
Quoted from 15224

Honestly, eating in the US is  can definitely be harmful to your health.


I seriously agree
Posted by: ABJoe, Saturday, July 16, 2011, 6:09pm; Reply: 103
Quoted from 15224
Honestly, eating in the US (is / can) definitely be harmful to your health.
One of the reasons we need to start with whole foods to cook for our meals.  Anytime a food is processed, we are at the mercy of the processor as to what shortcuts they have taken or the additives they use to preserve or "protect" the product from spoilage.  
Posted by: 15224 (Guest), Saturday, July 16, 2011, 6:30pm; Reply: 104
Yes, I agree with everyone's comments. I just purchased all of Dr. D'Adamo's books...Many of the health coaches that I work with (I'm still in the process of getting my certification) will always ask the clients blood type in order to better assist them to accomplish their health goals.  I currently have very bad digestive issues and I am trying to come off the protein pump inhibitors I'm on. Convential medicine has no clue what to do beyond taking Prevacid.  So, I purchased the books, tested my blood and here I am educating my way to health. Hopefully I will resolve my issues and in the process help my future clients as well.

In the meantime, here's a follow up to my Whole Foods story. Aloe Vera gel or juice is known to help with stomach disorders, so while I was weeding out the carageenan in my almond milk. I picked up a bottle of Aloe vera gel. 100% organic, all natural yada yada yada.  Today, I was going to add it in to my fresh carrot juice and I was looking for suggested dose.  And to my amazment there it was on the ingredient list. CARAGEENAN...ARRRRRGH...it's like a bad sci fi movie. The invasion of the carageenans. So you really do have to look at every ingredient on any product that you may ingest.

Thank you Passion Princess for the link.  I already make my own water kefir, and coconut kefir and yogurt.  Might as well make the almond milk...I'm also considering making my own Kombucha too.

Can't wait til I get up to speed with all of the doctor's books.
Posted by: grey rabbit, Saturday, July 16, 2011, 8:18pm; Reply: 105
Quoted Text
So you really do have to look at every ingredient on any product that you may ingest.
Yes you do!

Making almond milk is very easy. I soak 1 cup raw almonds over night, drain and rinse in the am, blend with 4cups filtered water, strain through thin, clean dishtowel,= almond milk! sometimes I add dates afterward, re-blend to make it a little sweet.

P.S., I didn't think aloe vera was good for Os?
Quoted Text
TYPE O:
Secretor:
AVOID: Contains lectin or other agglutinin. Contains component which can modify known disease susceptibility.

Non Secretor:
AVOID: Contains lectin or other agglutinin. Contains component which can modify known disease susceptibility.
Posted by: Drea, Saturday, July 16, 2011, 8:45pm; Reply: 106
Quoted from grey rabbit
Yes you do!

Making almond milk is very easy. I soak 1 cup raw almonds over night, drain and rinse in the am, blend with 4cups filtered water, strain through thin, clean dishtowel,= almond milk! sometimes I add dates afterward, re-blend to make it a little sweet.



Tell me again what you do with the leftover almond meal?

Posted by: 15224 (Guest), Saturday, July 16, 2011, 9:42pm; Reply: 107
Grey Rabbit--Thank you.  Yes, I will be making my own almond milk.  I did not know that Aloe was not good for O's.  Like I said, just started reading. So, in this case the carageenan was a blessing in disguise as I did not consume the aloe because of it.

I hope I can stay out of trouble till I read all the materials.

I would be interested to know how to use the ground almonds.
Posted by: ruthiegirl, Sunday, July 17, 2011, 6:49pm; Reply: 108
I think the safest thing to do for now, until you're 100% comfortable with the  food list, is "if in doubt, don't eat it."  Eat the foods you know are OK, and hold off on any new food or supplement that you're not sure about.

I've tried cooking with the leftover almond pulp, but I was never happy with the results. I needed to add so much sugar and oil to give the resultant cookies any kind of flavor, that I decided it wasn't worth it. The baked goods would be healthier if I just used whole grain flour or ground nuts, rather than pulp with the natural protein and fat removed.  Only during Passover, when I have very limited options for giving "body" to  baked goods, do I find it worthwhile to use almond pulp in baking.

So, I discard the pulp. I also discard the pulp from making rice milk, as it's the least healthy part.
Posted by: grey rabbit, Sunday, July 17, 2011, 6:59pm; Reply: 109
It's true that the almond pulp has little flavor, but I have a hard time throwing things out! I have mixed it with carob and dates and coconut oil to make little high-energy bites, the almond meal gives this mix texture. I've used it in waffles too.
Posted by: passionprincess, Sunday, July 17, 2011, 7:23pm; Reply: 110
Enjoy the machine, Eliana... if you choose to get it. It is quite expensive but I figure it is a nice investment.

I think the almond meal would make a wonderful facial and body scrub! I used to use coffee grounds as a scrub. Caffeine tightens the skin but almond meal would be even better. Nourishing oils, etc.
Posted by: delightfuldeb, Thursday, July 26, 2012, 7:02am; Reply: 111
I've been researching irish moss and from what I see, after you rinse it really well, if you soak it in water, the water thickens, therefore giving you carrageenan. So, would this "stabalized" water be bad to use in gluten free baked goods I make?
Posted by: Dianne, Friday, July 27, 2012, 1:00am; Reply: 112
Quoted from passionprincess
My parents make their own nut milk and "tofu" (with other types of beans/nuts - compliant ones) with this machine:

http://www.amazon.com/Koco-Tofu-Soymilk-Maker-Livart/dp/B002ZFK7RO

It would also make steamed nut milk within 30 minutes. My parents do not drink coffee (avoids), so they would make cups of warm nut milk for their morning drink.


PP : hello! hello! long time communicating with you since our long kombucha thread. The mix that is added to the soy to turn it into tofu, what is in it? This sounds great to use with other compliant beans. I miss tofu, I could get it hot of the press in my neighbourhood years ago and it would melt in my mouth. Thanks for sharing and hope your studies are going well.  :)
Posted by: C_Sharp, Friday, July 27, 2012, 2:05am; Reply: 113
Quoted from Dianne

The mix that is added to the soy to turn it into tofu, what is in it?


You need a coagulant.Some common ones are:

Calcium sulfate (gypsum)
Magnesium chloride
calcium chloride
Glucono delta-lactone
acetic acid
citric acid
papain
Posted by: Dianne, Saturday, July 28, 2012, 6:28pm; Reply: 114
Quoted from C_Sharp


You need a coagulant.Some common ones are:

Calcium sulfate (gypsum)
Magnesium chloride
calcium chloride
Glucono delta-lactone
acetic acid
citric acid
papain


Are these fine for blood type o's to consume or any BT for that matter? thanks  :)

Posted by: Snowflake, Saturday, August 11, 2012, 3:40pm; Reply: 115
Hello everybody!
I am new to this forum and have been following the different posts here with growing interest.

Quoted from delightfuldeb
I've been researching irish moss and from what I see, after you rinse it really well, if you soak it in water, the water thickens, therefore giving you carrageenan. So, would this "stabalized" water be bad to use in gluten free baked goods I make?


I am also wondering about the difference between irish moss and carrageenan, so I thought this might be the right discussion to try out my first post in this forum ;) I have some gluten-free recipes that ask for a kind of irish moss paste: soaking irish moss in water over several hours and then taking the soaked moss and blending it in a high speed blender, creating a paste one can use as a thickener. But the leftover water from soaking is not being used.
So it would be great to know when exactely irish moss begins being carrageenan, since irish moss is a diamond for teachers whereas carrageenan is an avoid?! Is it the soaking in general or "just" the water? ??)

Would be very happy if someone could clarify this one :)



Posted by: Andrea AWsec, Saturday, August 11, 2012, 4:18pm; Reply: 116
Maybe it is the processing.

The whole food versus the processed one?
Posted by: Snowflake, Saturday, August 11, 2012, 4:58pm; Reply: 117
Could be.
IBy the way, I just found a page with instructions for making carrageenan (http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-carrageenan.htm). They apparently take the water used for soaking but not the moss soaked in it, and also cook the moss instead of just soaking it:

"It is possible to produce carrageenan at home by boiling Irish moss for about 20 to 30 minutes. When the mixture cools and the moss is removed, much of the carrageenan will have dissolved in the water, leaving a gelled substance."

So perhaps it could be that the raw soaked moss indeed "stays" irish moss and carrageenan would only be the water-solution left over from cooking the moss? Does this make sense? ::)
Posted by: AKArtlover, Saturday, August 11, 2012, 5:03pm; Reply: 118
:) 8) :K)
Posted by: Spring, Monday, September 10, 2012, 2:08pm; Reply: 119
I have wondered about this too. How could carrageenan possibly be different from Irish moss?  But one is a superfood for me, and the other is an avoid. I guess no one has any idea why the distinction is made except Dr. D., and I doubt we would get an answer from him....... One thing for sure I cannot consume carrageenan, an avoid. I don't dare try Irish moss. Forget it. I have had it with stomach aches from trying to drink soy milk with carrageenan added in the distant past.
Posted by: ruthiegirl, Monday, September 10, 2012, 2:11pm; Reply: 120
I think it's kind of like the difference between MSG and nutritional yeast. Irish moss is a whole food that includes the carrageenan but also vitamins and minerals that help the body assimilate the whole food. Carrageenan is a highly processed chemical.
Posted by: Lloyd, Monday, September 10, 2012, 3:45pm; Reply: 121
Carrageenan is a gum.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_gum

Irish Moss contains carrageenan.
Posted by: ArwenLegolas, Wednesday, January 2, 2013, 3:15am; Reply: 122
What kinds of cancer does Carrageenan cause? Organ type cancer?
Posted by: 14442 (Guest), Thursday, February 21, 2013, 1:48am; Reply: 123
Carrageenan is bad; it promotes endotoxins. (gut damage)
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