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BTD Forums  /  Nonnie Clubhouse  /  How many Le(a-b-) are saliva non-secretors.
Posted by: Vista, Saturday, March 28, 2009, 3:11pm
Hello, I haven't been saliva tested yet for secretor status but know from being a blood donor that I am Lewis (a-b-).

I wonder how many here are Le(a-b-) and how many are Le(a-b-) and saliva non-secretors or Le(a-b-) and saliva secretors?

Posted by: Vicki, Saturday, March 28, 2009, 3:44pm; Reply: 1
About 25% of lewis double-negatives are salivary secretors.  

Lewis double-negative types are often recommended to follow the non-secretor diet.  

Quoted Text
For Lewis A-and Lewis B-persons, we have found that their clinical presentations and responses to the
dietary changes approximate  those who are non-secretors.
Posted by: Vista, Saturday, March 28, 2009, 4:39pm; Reply: 2
Ok Vicki, I have read about being Lewis double negative is quite rare. Is there any analysis made from what you wrote, that only about 25% of lewis double negatives are saliva secretors. I also need some help determing genotype.

Blood Type A1 Rh-, Le(a-b-)

Height: 171 cm
Weight: 72.5 kg

Torso are longer than legs (torso=88 cm and legs=83cm)

Index finger longer than ring finger on both hands.

Right hand index finger has got a radial loop (opens from thumb) and rest of the fingers have ulnar loops except thumb who has an arch.

Left hand index finger has got an arch and so even thumb and middle finger, ring finger and pinky have ulnar loops.

Wrist=middle and thumb overlap.

Waist=95 cm
Hips=107 cm

Upper leg length=41 cm
Lower leg lenght=38,5 or 39 cm

I am sensitive to caffeine, I cannot drink one cup after lunch cause then I have a hard time getting asleep at night. Strange I think that it affects me so much even if I drink it early in the day. I almost only use decaffeinated coffee when I drink.

Have had depression and suffer from fibromyalgia.

Have had Prop Test (DNA-test - Phenylthiocarbamide) Can taste bitter taste.

The thing with non-secretor I do not know since I have not taken saliva
test to determine yet, only Lewis blood test phenotype which showed Le(a-b-).

Have light blue-greenish eyes and medium blonde hair, and very light skin, my blood veins can bee seen under the skin.

From what I've read I think I would fit in to being an Explorer. Is it possible that I can fit into any other type. I was maybe thinking Teacher then, however I'm not sure.
Posted by: Vicki, Saturday, March 28, 2009, 4:52pm; Reply: 3
Here's a few tidbits to get you started on Lewis Double Negatives:

http://www.dadamo.com/knowbase/subtype/subtype6.htm
http://www.dadamo.com/science_abh-lewis.htm

I don't think the 25/75 reference is there but I'll look further later.  Have plans now.  
Posted by: Lola, Saturday, March 28, 2009, 5:13pm; Reply: 4
Quoted Text
"Having done 5000 Lewis typing tests in the clinic over the last 15 years, and about 400 salivary inhibition studies, I can safely say that saliva testing is more accurate than blood. The reason being that the agglutinations that are used to determine Lewis types are very delicate (weak antibody reaction) and can easily be misinterpreted, unlike ABO which makes a big glop that you cannot miss (strong antibody). I've even seen conflicting results from two different MedPath labs, especially if the staff is not trained well enough." The subject is discussed in more depth in one of the Science Knowledge Base Entries.
Posted by: Vista, Saturday, March 28, 2009, 5:35pm; Reply: 5
Hello Lola, I have done a Lewis bloodtyping at my blood central (I have been a blood donor) I hope it is accurate. My father who also is a blood donor have been typed aswell, they explained that they sometimes need to do a typing for lewis of the donor for the reciepent's needs. It has been done at Blood Central of Karolinska University Hospital.
Posted by: Vista, Saturday, March 28, 2009, 5:44pm; Reply: 6
Vicki, I have been reading those pages you referred to. That is why I wonder, since Le(a-b-) blood typed people can be either secretors or non-secretors, how many of the Le(a-b-) people that are non-secretors or secretors. I have been searching the internet for some statistics but have'nt found any facts about this. It seems however that there are not many people being Le(a-b-). I found one page about people being considered, either genuine Le(a-b-) or non-genuine Le(a-b-). From what I understood genuine Le(a-b-) was also Le(a-b-) in saliva tests but non-genuine was either Le(a+b-) or Le(a-b+).
Posted by: medavida, Saturday, March 28, 2009, 6:24pm; Reply: 7
Vista,

  Based on the information you gave, if you are a Secretor then you would be a Teacher and if a none-secretor you would be an Explorer.

  But secretor status aside, based on some of the other info you gave you could be explore (rh-, super taster?, sensitive to caffein and your index have diffrent patterns) however there is some information missing ie your body type,  if you have a a broad short head, any cancer in the family or if you are left handed....
Posted by: Vista, Saturday, March 28, 2009, 6:43pm; Reply: 8
Hi medavida, I am not left handed, my fathers mother had cancer. But no one else I know have had cancer in our family or relatives. Super taster - I do not know, have been DNA Prop tested. I find it hard to determine if I have a broad short head. For my lenght though I think I have a small head. I also think it is hard to decide what body type I might be. I guess I have to wait until the secretor test is done. Might have both DNA secretor test and saliva test done. By the way here is something about non-secretor genes.

http://www.ifr26.nantes.inserm.fr/biblio/voir.php?e=publication&id=5835
Posted by: Vista, Friday, May 22, 2009, 9:31pm; Reply: 9
I have read somewhere that a secretor type A1 can be wrongly typed as Le(a-b-) because of weak antibody reactions when having done a Lewis blood test and also I've read the above that a saliva secretor test is safer to determine Lewis/secretor status than bloodtype Lewis test.

Quoted Text
"Having done 5000 Lewis typing tests in the clinic over the last 15 years, and about 400 salivary inhibition studies, I can safely say that saliva testing is more accurate than blood. The reason being that the agglutinations that are used to determine Lewis types are very delicate (weak antibody reaction) and can easily be misinterpreted, unlike ABO which makes a big glop that you cannot miss (strong antibody). I've even seen conflicting results from two different MedPath labs, especially if the staff is not trained well enough." The subject is discussed in more depth in one of the Science Knowledge Base Entries.


I have done my Lewis test at the same place where I donate blood.

Well my question now is if the lab where I did get Lewis tested as Le(a-b-) could have a more safe method than what is described above to determine my Lewis status correctly. I have talked to them about this and asked what method they're using and they told me they did an agglutination gel test method to decide Lewis from bloodsample.

Maybe there are different methods used in labs?
Posted by: C_Sharp, Friday, May 22, 2009, 9:57pm; Reply: 10
I am not Lewis double negative.

I have had the lewis test done and it indicated that I was a nonsecretor.  I do not know about different lab procedures for determining Lewis status.

For me switiching to the nonsecretor diet made such a dramatic difference in my health that I did not doubt the test results.

Posted by: Lola, Friday, May 22, 2009, 10:11pm; Reply: 11
be happy you found a lab that performs it!! ;)
no matter which method, all serve a purpose.

I did both and am a nonnie.
Posted by: Dr. D, Saturday, May 23, 2009, 10:05am; Reply: 12
Double Lewis Negatives (LDN) are about 1-2% of the population.

Non-secretors are about 15-18% of the population.

I would assume that they are the same percentage of LDNs.

However, as I've said, LDNs are pretty much like non-secretors physiologically.
Posted by: Vista, Monday, May 25, 2009, 8:24pm; Reply: 13
Thankyou for your answers but do you think I can be sure that I can trust the lab results being Le(a-b-) since I am bloodtype A1 and also their method as I described above in my latest post?

Would that then make me genotype Explorer (since I am also Rh-negative and Lewis double negative) or do I still need to do a secretor saliva test to decide which genotype? My measurements are posted earlier above in this thread.

One other question I have is about the website for genotypes, will there be another place soon that one can use for calculating from the book, free trial for one week (I read the genotype site is soon going to close down)?
Posted by: Lola, Monday, May 25, 2009, 11:29pm; Reply: 14
lets wait and see what migrates into this site....

we will all be updated in time.
Posted by: 2degreespisces, Friday, March 29, 2013, 10:41am; Reply: 15
It's an old topic, but it's the only one I found on Lewis double negative.

I've been tested three times, as part of general blood type testing, and all three times I've typed out as Le(a- b-).

However, saliva testing stated I'm a secretor.

Are there any other people here on the boards with the same combination of being a secretor and being Lewis double negative?

I'd be interested to talk about it.
Posted by: Lola, Saturday, March 30, 2013, 5:47am; Reply: 16
I am a non secretor, saliva
and a LDN, blood
Posted by: kathryn, Saturday, March 30, 2013, 8:45am; Reply: 17
hello 2degreespisces, i am one ...

LDN - actually Le(a weak, b -) which i was told is even less common than a LDN.

saliva tested positive for secretor.

also i'm an A2

ticking all the subgroup boxes.

i would be interested to talk about it too.
Posted by: 2degreespisces, Saturday, March 30, 2013, 10:23am; Reply: 18
Thanks for your replies!

I'm especially interested in whether you feel that being LDN has its own health issues, as Dr D states in ER4YT.

I'm trying to find out what exactly being LDN means, other than being kind of lumped in with non-secretors. There's not much info on the specifics, on what the consequences for the body are.
Posted by: snazzyshazz, Saturday, March 30, 2013, 10:42am; Reply: 19
I am glad you asked those questions, 2degreespisces. I have also wondered what special health problems LDNs have, as Dr D mentioned somewhere.

I was tested as LDN via blood. Salivary secretor test in Australia is very hard to get. So I have assumed that I am non-secretor. The input data in Swami allows for just LDN without knowing secretor status. So swami chooses my foods on the basis of LDN, I guess.

I would be interested in knowing what peculiarities are associated with being LDN.
Posted by: 2degreespisces, Saturday, March 30, 2013, 4:11pm; Reply: 20
Snazzyshazz, I'm LDN and yet a secretor; I'd say that the percentage of secretors versus non-secretors (around 80% to 20%) would be the same in the LDN population as in the general population.

At least I haven't found any study yet to suggest that LDN predisposes toward being a  non-secretor.

In ER4YT Dr D'Adamo writes:
" In many instances, Lewis negative individuals have unique interactions with diseases, microbes, or metabolic syndromes."
It is this quote that so tantalises me, as I'd love to know more about that.
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