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BTD Forums  /  The GenoType Diet  /  CLA
Posted by: Chloe, Thursday, March 20, 2008, 9:36pm
I've been reading about the supplement CLA (which is one of the bottles I received in my Warrior supplement trio) and I can't figure this one thing out.  Naturally, CLA would be in animal foods like dairy and beef.  I discovered that if your dairy consumption is from a low fat source, then the CLA levels are reduced.

OK, so CLA in a capsule.  Most of the companies that make CLA are making it out of safflower oil.  That's as far removed from dairy and beef as I can imagine.  What is the relationship between
safflower oil and CLA that is found in dairy?

AND wouldn't the safflower oil not be high in omega 3?  Maybe throw off the anti-inflammatory
benefits of omega 3 by ingesting too much omega 6?

I don't understand the entire concept of CLA.  Anyone knowledgeable about this supplement?
Posted by: 2330 (Guest), Thursday, March 20, 2008, 9:55pm; Reply: 1
Quoted from Chloe
I've been reading about the supplement CLA (which is one of the bottles I received in my Warrior supplement trio) and I can't figure this one thing out.  Naturally, CLA would be in animal foods like dairy and beef.  I discovered that if your dairy consumption is from a low fat source, then the CLA levels are reduced.

OK, so CLA in a capsule.  Most of the companies that make CLA are making it out of safflower oil.  That's as far removed from dairy and beef as I can imagine.  What is the relationship between
safflower oil and CLA that is found in dairy?

AND wouldn't the safflower oil not be high in omega 3?  Maybe throw off the anti-inflammatory
benefits of omega 3 by ingesting too much omega 6?

I don't understand the entire concept of CLA.  Anyone knowledgeable about this supplement?


Well, Cloe, more power to you is all I can say. I was looking at the same thing today and it makes zip sense to me too - the same as the problems I am having with some of the other supplements for which I don't expect I will get an iota of help with, either. To tell you the truth I am sick to death of it. That part of this diet is worthless if we can't even find this stuff!

I have several hundred dollars I am ready to spend somewhere, but where?

Posted by: Chloe, Thursday, March 20, 2008, 9:59pm; Reply: 2
http://livesuperfoods.com/GPP001.html

I understand the purpose of CLA, but not when it comes from safflower oil. I'm starting to
take this product. CLA made me horribly achy.
Posted by: 2330 (Guest), Thursday, March 20, 2008, 10:10pm; Reply: 3
I tried CLA some time ago from another company and it really bothered me something terrible too. In fact it was so bad that the company let me return all the bottles I had bought for a refund. I was hoping this version from Dr. D. would not be a problem. I have not tried it yet because I'm trying to get settled on some of these other supplements that I feel I need much worse.

My mother died of a heart attack at 79 with no prior symptoms whatsoever. She had no health problems that would indicate that she was at risk. She just collapsed and died with absolutely no warning. On the other hand, I have high cholesterol, and I feel I don't have any time to lose to get into better shape. All I see in front of me right now concerning all this is a blank wall.
Posted by: Lola, Thursday, March 20, 2008, 11:48pm; Reply: 4
Quoted Text
My mother died of a heart attack at 79 with no prior symptoms whatsoever. She had no health problems that would indicate that she was at risk. She just collapsed and died with absolutely no warning.

if only BTD or GTD had been available then.......
she was an A like you, I presume.....
Posted by: Lola, Thursday, March 20, 2008, 11:52pm; Reply: 5
on CLA
http://www.dadamo.com/bloggers/ask/archives/00000186.htm
http://www.dadamo.com/bloggers/otd/archives/00000512.htm

ask NAP about the source if it s not already written on the bottle.
Posted by: Chloe, Friday, March 21, 2008, 4:12pm; Reply: 6
Quoted from Lola


In the first link you posted, this is the last paragraph.

"For types A, increasing consumption of fatty foods to increase CLA intake is ill-advised - not only because researchers have not demonstrated CLA's effectiveness against cancer in humans, but also because high fat intakes may have adverse health effects, such as increasing one's risk of heart disease and certain types of cancer."

And this is from your second link:

""Many people take a synthetic version (CLA) that is widely promoted as a diet aid and muscle builder. New research shows that the type of CLA in the pills may have some potentially serious side effects, including promoting insulin resistance, raising glucose levels, and reducing HDL (good) cholesterol .(3)" 3. Riserus, U., P. Arner, et al. (2002). "Treatment with dietary trans10cis12 conjugated linoleic acid causes isomer-specific insulin resistance in obese men with the metabolic syndrome." Diabetes Care 25(9): 1516-21."

Nothing I've read about CLA has made sense to me.  It's raw source comes from ANIMALS who
graze and eat grass..Cows eating grass and their dairy products are high in CLA which implies it's more related to omega 3 sources...but.....CLA which is synthesized in laboratories from safflower oil which is clearly high in omega 6, is from a plant.

Also, the first link says NOT to eat more fats to get CLA yet ghee is a good for Warriors
and that's one source of CLA.  And if I eat yogurt from a grass fed cow, I'd naturally get
CLA.  

Like Spring, I do very poorly on CLA as a supplement.  



Posted by: Chloe, Friday, March 21, 2008, 4:23pm; Reply: 7
http://www.eatwild.com/cla.html
Posted by: 2330 (Guest), Friday, March 21, 2008, 4:36pm; Reply: 8
If all animals ate grass the way they did years ago, it is my understanding that we wouldn't even be concerned about CLA at all (we A's would be getting it from cultured dairy). I don't remember the source of the CLA that I took but the company where I got it is now making it from safflower oil. I would guess that was the same formula I took a few years ago.

My stomach hurt so badly I couldn't sleep at night, aside from the other problems. The pain was gut-wrenching.

I almost envy people who can throw just about anything (on their given diets) into their stomachs and go happily on their way. Methinks it is very hard for them to understand our dilemma with many things about ours. I am really beginning to think I must be a nonnie. Sometimes I wish that Dr. D. was one.... :-/
Posted by: Lola, Friday, March 21, 2008, 4:40pm; Reply: 9
have you checked Dr Ds new blog?
in his new swami report, there is lots of info on most food sources......
check the report, see if you can find a source of CLA and what it says......
I haven t done the work yet, but plan to when I need to! :)

go visit the GTD site where Dr D himself is answering questions he considers relevant to your plan.
take advantage of your free week trial and check all the gadgets out there!
Posted by: 2330 (Guest), Friday, March 21, 2008, 5:39pm; Reply: 10
Lola, if his answers there are anything like what we have gotten here, I wonder if they will actually be a benefit to me over all. I feel like a round object someone is trying to push into a square. My plan was to join the site for at least a few months, but I have sort of gotten disillusioned. A person does get just worn out sometimes. I barely fit a Warrior profile anyway, and I wonder if that is part of my problem. I had adzuki beans for the first time yesterday and I felt awful last night from lack of protein. I was eating fish at midnight because of trembling and weakness. According to Dr. D. I am eating 'way too much fish, and I'm afraid I'm going to get burned out on it anyway. I had hoped to reinforce the diet with the NAP supplements, but that is getting to be too much of a hassle. In fact, it is impossible in many ways. I know already that I can get along with most of the ingredients of the Geno supplements because I am taking them and have been a long time, but there are several things in them that either I have had problems with in the past or they seem to be avoids or I don't know whether I can take them or not.

Dr. D. may not consider any of my problems "relevant." It wouldn't surprise me at all.
Posted by: Lola, Friday, March 21, 2008, 5:53pm; Reply: 11
give it a try, the site is very helpful and is the place where
Dr D answers questions concerning GTD......
but maybe you should stick to your BTD guidelines, just find out more concerning your secretor status and sub type of A, to follow more targeted advice and food lists as well as protocols given in the health series books.....
Dr D has given us so many options to follow, we should take advantage of one or the other......it s all the best advice I ve found so far in regards to individuality and self healing!
Posted by: Chloe, Friday, March 21, 2008, 6:23pm; Reply: 12
Quoted from 2330
Lola, if his answers there are anything like what we have gotten here, I wonder if they will actually be a benefit to me over all. I feel like a round object someone is trying to push into a square. My plan was to join the site for at least a few months, but I have sort of gotten disillusioned. A person does get just worn out sometimes. I barely fit a Warrior profile anyway, and I wonder if that is part of my problem. I had adzuki beans for the first time yesterday and I felt awful last night from lack of protein. I was eating fish at midnight because of trembling and weakness. According to Dr. D. I am eating 'way too much fish, and I'm afraid I'm going to get burned out on it anyway. I had hoped to reinforce the diet with the NAP supplements, but that is getting to be too much of a hassle. In fact, it is impossible in many ways. I know already that I can get along with most of the ingredients of the Geno supplements because I am taking them and have been a long time, but there are several things in them that either I have had problems with in the past or they seem to be avoids or I don't know whether I can take them or not.

Dr. D. may not consider any of my problems "relevant." It wouldn't surprise me at all.


Spring, if you could make up your own food list with foods you feel you tolerate well,
what would it look like?

Posted by: 2330 (Guest), Saturday, March 29, 2008, 5:50am; Reply: 13
Cloe, sorry to be so long answering your post. I called the NAP folks and got all the information I needed. One thing I learned that has been a major help to me is that bromelain is NOT taken from the fruit itself but from the stem, and I was encouraged to try it again since my stomach is getting so much better all the time. Well, lo, and behold, it is working and so far I am not having any problem at all with it.  Before, it felt as if the stuff was trying to digest my stomach!! I am taking it slow and easy with it, though. I think, without a doubt, that the reason I had so much trouble with it before was because of the harm the uncultured yogurt and corn were doing to my stomach. They were my two major problems.

Another thing, I have started back to using my NAP protein supplement. I have found that when I am especially tired from working outside, a protein drink with lots of yogurt, fruit, etc., is a wonderful meal replacement. In fact, I had two of them yesterday!

Also, I ordered some NAP detox supplements and a LOT of other NAP products which are okay with the Geno diet but they are not the new Geno supplements. I have always just loved the way those folks are so helpful, but they really came across this time with some help I was desperately needing.

I still am having a horrible time with beans, but I do try them now and then to see if there is any change. So far, they are a no go. Peas and butterbeans are not bad at all, though.

I tolerate all of our allowed fruits except grapefruit. I simply cannot eat it yet without being miserable. My stomach hurts and I ache all over.

All the live foods I do well with, but there are some that I simply can't seem to like - such as brussels sprouts.

I am doing much better on the grains as long as I am careful about not getting too much gluten.

My main problem all the time has been the protein deal, and my hair is still falling out by the handful. I'm hoping the extra protein drinks will help. Time will tell, of course. After reading a few of those tales where people were howling about losing nearly all their hair before they finally found out it was soy causing it, it does make you wonder when you're comsuming so much of it and losing so much hair yourself!  :-/ But we will see.......
Posted by: RedLilac, Sunday, March 30, 2008, 3:19pm; Reply: 14
You should really get your secretor status verified.  The money is costs for the test would pay for itself by you knowing for sure.  Also are you sure youíre a Warrior?  You could be following the wrong type.  

Dr. D has an agreement with the folks who are running his new GTD site.  He will not answer your GTD questions on the BTD site.  Use your free week and ask him your questions there.  Who knows, maybe someone else has addressed the same concerns.  
Posted by: 2330 (Guest), Sunday, March 30, 2008, 8:19pm; Reply: 15
Quoted from RedLilac
You should really get your secretor status verified.  The money is costs for the test would pay for itself by you knowing for sure.  Also are you sure youíre a Warrior?  You could be following the wrong type.  

Dr. D has an agreement with the folks who are running his new GTD site.  He will not answer your GTD questions on the BTD site.  Use your free week and ask him your questions there.  Who knows, maybe someone else has addressed the same concerns.  


Yes, I'm sure I'm a Warrior - at least by using the parameters that Dr. D. himself has set. I already have a secretor test so the expense is no problem. Victoria herself said she didn't get an answer for an important question she asked about the Geno diet on the pay-per board so I don't think I will bother. I don't think he can help me much anyway. He says eat fish 3-4 times weekly - then he warns people about eating frozen fish. There isn't a fish to be had in my area that hasn't been frozen. There is nothing he can do about that. I don't know how he could tell me anymore about how to endure eating beans than I already know and am trying to do. The only thing that has kept down the weakness and trembling from eating all fish/veggie/grain/nut proteins is the protein powder and very likely that is partly because of the wallop I'm getting from all the Arabinogalactan in it. That stuff is like magic. I do not do well at all with a lot of carbs - even low load ones without a hefty balance of protein. But there may be a good reason for that - which brought up the question in my mind that I've posted at the end of this message.

If there is a question I would like see his answer to at this point it would be something like this:
If polymines become much more prolific in times of stress/illness/injury, is there the possibility that the body "forgets" how to slow this production down to normal levels after the situation is relieved, (especially if the problems exist for a long period of time) can this in itself create an emergency state of sorts that causes the body to demand even more polyamines causing the person to crave the very foods that produce more polyamines that in turn robs the body of nutrients needed elsewhere? Now, I can just see what sort of response I would get from that one where ever I posted it! (smile)
Posted by: RedLilac, Wednesday, April 2, 2008, 1:19am; Reply: 16
You have an interesting point there Spring.  I would think the polyamine production would not come to a screeching halt but would gradually decline. Maybe some more knowledgeable people from this board will have an opinion.  Itís not the same as having Dr. D answer, but it is fun to speculate.
Posted by: 2330 (Guest), Wednesday, April 2, 2008, 4:19am; Reply: 17
Quoted from RedLilac
You have an interesting point there Spring.  I would think the polyamine production would not come to a screeching halt but would gradually decline. Maybe some more knowledgeable people from this board will have an opinion.  Itís not the same as having Dr. D answer, but it is fun to speculate.


This polyamine deal affects so much about the Warrior diet. At least it does when you live in a place where so many things are not available locally. I had read about it in LR4YT some time ago but for some reason it didn't really sink in. But now it is another story when so many supposedly compliant things make my stomach hurt like crazy and my cholesterol hasn't budged. If I take a goldenseal capsule when my stomach hurts like that, it stops in just a few minutes.

It really bugs me when I want to find out something about a problem like this and keep running into these blank walls! I don't mind doing research but where would one begin with something like this???

Of course, it is even more frustrating seeing an ordinary doctor and all you can visualize is a pile of prescription drugs lined up as far as the eye can see!! Each and every one of which brings on more side effects that requires another stream of pills. Thank goodness I'm not on that train yet, and I hope not to be forevermore.
Posted by: RedLilac, Thursday, April 3, 2008, 1:35am; Reply: 18
Here is the Individuality wiki article:  http://www.dadamo.com/wiki/wiki.pl/Polyamines

I just skimmed though it.  Maybe you can find something in there.  It has more than the regular wikipedia.  Googling brings a host of confusing articles.  The Individuality wiki article is an easier read, but does go into depth.

I know Ė a straight out answer would be the simplest solution.
Posted by: 2330 (Guest), Thursday, April 3, 2008, 4:25am; Reply: 19
This link was one of the first things I read about polyamines after reading about it in LR4YT.

When I think about veggies and fruits laying around in grocery stores looking like they are a step away from the garbage, frozen fruits and veggies, frozen fish, canned beans (what about dried ones?), canned fish, veggies and fruit and don't forget cereals - this has to represent a HUGE supply of polyamines. Then, add to that the possibility of more of them being dumped into our systems in times of stress/injury/sickness, it seems to me that it makes perfect sitting ducks of us to develop some type of cancer among other things.

This subject is a HUGE thing in my opinion and I think it is to Dr. D., too, and I wish he would give us more clues about how to balance this conundrum in our bodies. The few times I have been really sick in my life, I have always felt that there was something else that ALWAYS went haywire when that happened. I used to think it may have been Candida, but now I'm wondering if it is this polyamine deal.

I think this thread should be renamed CLA (and polyamines).
Posted by: Lola, Thursday, April 3, 2008, 5:39am; Reply: 20
http://www.google.com/custom?q=polyamine&sa=Search+dadamo.com&cof=AH%3Acenter%3BAWFID%3A4452213b291e6613%3B&domains=dadamo.com&sitesearch=dadamo.com
there is so much info on this site concerning polyamines!!

also check the IFHI 2007 conference material available at NAP in the form of cassettes......unbelievable!
Posted by: Schluggell, Thursday, April 3, 2008, 7:46am; Reply: 21
It has to do with bonds of the molecule, where the actual bond is and, lets face it, industrial chemistry.

Some of the above statements make it sound like Linoleic Fatty Acid is the same as CLA. And they are different because of the bond. There is no way of physically telling them apart by our senses.

As it is a recently described/researched molecule there are few studies - Thus the reports of grass fed beef because that is all that someone has paid money to research for that particular substance, besides Kangaroo meat...
Posted by: 312 (Guest), Thursday, April 3, 2008, 1:30pm; Reply: 22
I am reading this whole thread and wondering about your digestion in general.  As we age,
(I have heard from a radio nutritionist) apparently our digestions have less and less  strength.
That might be causing your problem?  
I was taking a Trader Joes CLA in the same 1000mg, 740 mg of cla as NAP.  I think it might be
causing me gas.....but I will keep taking it for a while, cause it may be dairy that I am reacting to.
Posted by: 2330 (Guest), Thursday, April 3, 2008, 3:19pm; Reply: 23
Thank you very much, Lola! Here is an answer from Heidi M. some time ago to questions very similar to mine that answers my question as nearly as anyone could in my opinion - unless Dr. D. has a new opinion to add!

"My question/s relate/s to items such as tinned salmon which is listed as beneficial and a recommended food source, bone and all, for type-A's. Should all tinned or frozen fish be listed as avoids? How does that relate to tinned salmon being a recommended/beneficial food? Is there any general level that can be considered as sufficient for keeping polyamide levels below the harmful levels - say if consumed twice a week? Apart from the toxic indicators given according to blood types, how do we make sure we are not getting anywhere close to the toxic levels indicated? In other words, out of the 8 indicators listed for a Type-A (on page 105 of LR4YT), how many would be considered as being at a toxic level, or is any one indicator sufficient to indicate toxicity and which, if any, is the most important toxic indicator? As I have a tendency to resort to frozen cod (from the supermarket) which I take is quick frozen and high in polyamines, do certain frozen/tinned fish have high/undesirable polyamine levels while others contain reasonable or even acceptable levels of polyamines - would this varying level also apply to frozen vegetables? I also resort to home-freezing fresh cod and salmon myself when I am unable to use up what I have purchased. What are your views on this type of freezing? Would it be better to cook or partly cook the fish first before freezing at home? Finally, as my other half is an Type-O, what is the low-down on frozen and tinned meat such as frozen lamb and tinned beef, particularly since red meat such as beef and lamb are beneficials for Type-Os. Thus, how will tinned/frozen meats affect a Type-O? The recommendation (on page 104 of LR4YT) is for Type-Os to reduce their GRAIN lectins - a matter which I have succeeded in getting accomplished thus far! Once again, many thanks for being there! Diane


Hi, Diane! Commercially frozen or tinned fish is not an avoid ~ it is a less desirable alternative to fresh or home-frozen or dried or vacuum-packed fish. The polyamine levels are higher in flash-frozen fish especially, and in fowl or meat to a lesser extent -- far less in vegetables. But they are not so high even in fish that one should eat none at all if only flash-frozen is available. It is a moderating factor, one which should be weighed by individual circumstances. And remember, adding black cherry juice to a marinade or sauce will reduce the polyamine load in whatever fish or meat it's used on.
Even though red meat is listed as having a high polyamine level, it's also recommended for type Os, daily. Every one of the blood type diets is based upon fresh vegetables and fruit, which greatly improve digestion of protein foods and contain plentiful antioxidants. That's what you should focus on in feeding both you and your type O.
Any one of the toxic indicators for A on page 104, if present, means that doing some detoxifying is a good idea. The most telling indicators are probably halitosis, skin problems, odiferous stools, and headaches. And if you're freezing fish & meat at home, make sure it is fresh as possible and uncooked. Double-wrap it tightly, in small servings for convenience' sake. thanks for writing, Diane!
Posted by: 2330 (Guest), Thursday, April 3, 2008, 3:24pm; Reply: 24
Now I'm wondering if anyone has tried black cherry marinade for fish. Even though it is  black dot for me now, I would try it if it seemed worthwhile. Or would throwing down some Goldenseal do the trick without the bother!?
Posted by: Lola, Thursday, April 3, 2008, 10:02pm; Reply: 25
prunes or any other antioxidant fruit will do as well.....
check your list and substitute accordingly.
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