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BTD Forums  /  The GenoType Diet  /  Why isn't coconut oil an Explorer Superfood?
Posted by: Novelia, Tuesday, February 5, 2008, 12:01pm
In the past I spent many months researching coconut oil. Lipids expert Mary Enig, PhD has done extensive research about the positive health benefits of coconut oil and, by contrast, the dangers of trans fatty acids in hydrogenated oils.

Why is it a toxin for Explorers and a Superfood for Teachers? As long as it isn't hydrogenated (how absurd that they used to do that - it's so stable) and from a good source such as

http://www.wildernessfamilynaturals.com/virgin_coconut_oil.htm

why should Explorers avoid it?
Posted by: Dr. D, Tuesday, February 5, 2008, 1:14pm; Reply: 1
I don't like the effects of one of the main constituents (lauric acid) on the cytochrome CYP4A subfamily (CYP4A11) when used by GT4; in particular liver peroxisomal oxidation, which is about the last thing GT4 needs in this world.

Dr. Enig is a fine lipid chemist, but has a tendency to think coconut oil is just wonderful in everyone.  



Please don't ask these types of GTD questions on this forum. The top of the forum says:

Quoted Text
A forum for the informal discussion Dr. D'Adamo's newest book. Please note that the official website for The GenoType Diet is http://www.genotypediet.com. Dr. D'Adamo does not respond to posts on this forum.



Posted by: Lola, Tuesday, February 5, 2008, 4:09pm; Reply: 2
again the 'one size fit all' advertisement of a good thing.
'one man s food......' you know the rest ..... ;)
I feel so lucky to be right here, http://www.genotypediet.com/
(at GTD) in the 'eye of the hurricane'!
under Dr D s watchful eye! ;D
Posted by: 2330 (Guest), Tuesday, February 5, 2008, 4:26pm; Reply: 3
By now, I suppose we all can rest assured that our Dr. D. has not left any stones unturned about these foods we are supposed to be eating. Granted some of us have to be careful about a few things for the time being, but, who knows, soon we may be able to consume things we haven't been able to for years!! As a matter of fact, I am now able to eat real yogurt with NO problems! And, as soon as I get some made, I'm pretty sure I will be able to eat cottage cheese. I'm looking forward to trying grapefruit again - I do love the stuff!!! I've found that the dreaded CARBS (not just any old carb, of course)haven't made me blow up like a balloon. And the MORE dreaded FATS from nuts haven't either. Just the opposite. I'm losig weight at my usual slow pace, which is just fine. I have plenty of patience as long as I AM losing and FEELIING GREAT (the most important, by far) - which I am!!!

I already knew that the medical profession was lacking in many (shall we say MOST) ways before I ever heard of the BTD. But after GTD, it is so clearly evident that they don't have a clue about many things. I think I'm apt to scream the next time I hear or read one of these guys/gals declare there is no scientific evidence that blah, blah some vitamin or other won't benefit blah, blah, blah. You know why? Because these "scientific" studies they do themselves are a complete JOKE. We're all familiar with the huge headlines about this or that "study." Read the last part of the article first and don't waste your time. Right there in plain English a fool can see that the "study" is so messed up they can make whatever declaration they want from it. Wears me out thinking about these idiots. I think I'll have a handful of walnuts! (smile)
Posted by: ruthie, Tuesday, February 5, 2008, 4:36pm; Reply: 4
I am very grateful to DrD and his research.  I don't explore the various sites which are avilable with the touch of the mouse.
namaste
ruthie
Posted by: Lola, Tuesday, February 5, 2008, 4:39pm; Reply: 5
Spring, glad you are having such good results!!
:)
Posted by: 2330 (Guest), Tuesday, February 5, 2008, 6:23pm; Reply: 6
Quoted from ruthie
I am very grateful to DrD and his research.  I don't explore the various sites which are avilable with the touch of the mouse.
namaste
ruthie


The only reason I even look at this stuff is because people ask me about it.  They see the headlines - newspapers, magazines, television, online, etc. - and are so busy they don't have time to try to make sense out of it. They know I don't usually form an opinion too readily about things especially if it is something "new" that I might not know anything about, so they pay attention when I say what I think about it. I want to have valid reasons, etc. So, yes, if it is right in my face as it is their's, I want a good reason to back up what I say about it, if they ask.

Posted by: 2330 (Guest), Tuesday, February 5, 2008, 6:32pm; Reply: 7
About the coconut oil, it is no strange thing to me, personally, that Warriors should avoid it. I love anything to do with coconut, but it nearly KILLS me! It affects me almost as bad as beef. PLEASE, no coconut for me! And those Girl Scout cookies that have it on them are one of the best cookies I ever ate in my life! I just hope the poor girls stay away from me, mainly because their cookies are always so fresh and tempting, and I love Girl Scouts!  :K)
Posted by: Novelia, Tuesday, February 5, 2008, 10:23pm; Reply: 8
Thanks for your reply, Dr. D. I apologize for asking the question here. Because you have popped in a few times to reply to people here, I forgot what it says at the top of the page.

Can anyone explain in simple terms what Dr. D means? What could lauric acid do to Explorers?

I agree that even if a food is nutritious, it may not be the best for everyone.





Posted by: 2330 (Guest), Wednesday, February 6, 2008, 12:34am; Reply: 9
Quoted from Lola
Spring, glad you are having such good results!!
:)


Thanks, Lola! I have had far better results than I ever in my wildest expectations thought I would! And this is from someone who had been on the BTD for eight years and seen basically wonderful results from it. I am beginning to understand a little better why there is a possibility for SOME people to take very few supplements, or none at all, and still feel great. I have eaten thousands of meals in my lifetime that only felt like an aggravation to my insides - no change in energy - nothing. Even after taking enzymes and probiotics for years I could barely begin to see a difference. I have always tried to eat what anyone would consider a healthy diet. I spent a fortune on foods that were compliant with the BTD, I used the NAP protein mix, I took thousands upon thousands of dollars worth of vitamins and supplements, many of them from NAP. I had finally gotten to the point of seldom eating out because of reactions to things in food that were impossible to avoid. The only times I ever actually felt any different from taking supplements was when I took ARA Plus, Deflect, Cortiguard, Live Cell, B-12, a multi-B complex and calcium with magnesium and Vitamin D. I would notice a change in the way I felt, but nothing major, by any means. One thing, though, that makes me know that I was doing something right during that time: I was NEVER sick. No infections of any kind. I had aches and pains, but I can't remember the last time I was at a doctor's office for anything except physicals, a tick bite and in 1996 I went because of having some sort of chest pain that they thought had to do with inflammation of the lining of my chest cavity. Two visits for that. But for all that, I just didn't feel really, really good. Now I keep wondering if this is really and truly going to last - but, actually it doesn't - IT JUST KEEPS GETTING BETTER AND BETTER!!!!! Food tastes so good and feels so good inside that I feel as if I am eating dessert all the time! And the thing is, I am dabbling in all kinds of paint that usually drive me crazy, climbing ladders, sanding (dust everywhere, of course) and none of it is bothering me. I CAN'T BELIEVE IT!!!!  (hugegrin) LOL
Posted by: Lola, Wednesday, February 6, 2008, 12:44am; Reply: 10
excellent!!
;)
this will make Dr D extremely happy!
Posted by: 2330 (Guest), Wednesday, February 6, 2008, 1:39am; Reply: 11
From Dr. D.........in particular liver peroxisomal oxidation, which is about the last thing GT4 needs in this world.

Sounds like this stuff predisposes the GT4 liver to that old beastie, CANCER!!!! I could be wrong, of course. (smile)
Posted by: Novelia, Wednesday, February 6, 2008, 6:09am; Reply: 12
Quoted from 2330
From Dr. D.........in particular liver peroxisomal oxidation, which is about the last thing GT4 needs in this world.

Sounds like this stuff predisposes the GT4 liver to that old beastie, CANCER!!!! I could be wrong, of course. (smile)


Yes, perhaps! Yikes!

I have never done well on coconut oil, but wanted to know what Dr. D thought (and others, too) :) because some people do REALLY well on it! Oh my, I even did product demos for a  coconut oil company a few years ago! My research was extensive so it was very difficult when I didn't do well on it and had to give it up. But lately I've wondered about it again because sometimes when we're not well we react to things that would be okay if we were in good health. Some of the Explorer foods are very problematic for me so I must avoid them for now. It can be quite confusing!



Posted by: Dr. D, Wednesday, February 6, 2008, 11:13am; Reply: 13
In English:

Some people don't do as well as others running a soap through their bile ducts.
Posted by: Novelia, Wednesday, February 6, 2008, 11:40am; Reply: 14
Quoted from Dr. D
In English:

Some people don't do as well as others running a soap through their bile ducts.


LOL! Thank you. :) How fitting because the last jar I purchased had a horrid soapy taste, something I've encountered from time to time even in supposedly high quality products. :) I have never done well on anything coconut, but struggled when I learned about the health benefits and basically *wanted* it to be good for me. It hasn't been part of my diet for a long time so I won't miss it. :)

Posted by: 2374 (Guest), Wednesday, February 6, 2008, 11:53pm; Reply: 15
This discussion is an example of why I get mixed up.  In old typebase food list coconut oil is avoid for everyone except neutral to O nonnie.  Every time I order vitamins on internet they send ad for coconut oil.  Make it sound great.  I don’t buy because Dr D says no no no.  

Now on GTD coconut oil is poisen for all, except super beneficial for Teachers.  Are teachers O nonnie?  No, they are As.  

This may be two diff diets – all separate, all new rules.  But if coconut oil is bad on one diet, how can it be good on another.  If avoid for As on one diet, how super beneficial on another?  If ok for O nonnie on one diet, how avoid on another?  

I don’t want to get in trouble for asking a question in the wrong place, and coconut is bad for me either way.  But if I was a teacher and an A I would be mixed up.  
Posted by: Novelia, Thursday, February 7, 2008, 12:22am; Reply: 16
That is confusing about the BTD status of coconut oil. I see that for Hunters and Gatherers coconut oil is a black dot toxin so after 3 months of GTDing it can be consumed occassionally.
Posted by: C_Sharp, Thursday, February 7, 2008, 12:25am; Reply: 17
Quoted from 2374
This discussion is an example of why I get mixed up.  In old typebase food list coconut oil is avoid for everyone except neutral to O nonnie.  Every time I order vitamins on internet they send ad for coconut oil.  Make it sound great.  I don’t buy because Dr D says no no no.  

Now on GTD coconut oil is poisen for all, except super beneficial for Teachers.  Are teachers O nonnie?  No, they are As.  

This may be two diff diets – all separate, all new rules.  But if coconut oil is bad on one diet, how can it be good on another.  If avoid for As on one diet, how super beneficial on another?  If ok for O nonnie on one diet, how avoid on another?  

I don’t want to get in trouble for asking a question in the wrong place, and coconut is bad for me either way.  But if I was a teacher and an A I would be mixed up.  


I know that changes in food values is confusing.

But I am grateful to have my diet updated by additional research that considers other factors.

Dr. D. could simplify our lives (and his as well) by never changing food values, but then we would miss the potential health benefits of new information.

Posted by: RedLilac, Thursday, February 7, 2008, 1:00am; Reply: 18
Coconut is an avoid for me on both diets.  I never felt well when I tried it for cooking before I knew.  Just another example of me avoiding something naturally that is not good for me. :o

There are many people who after their free trial will not pay the fee for the GTD website.  There are also people who will pay for awhile, but not forever.  This site, gratefully, is free; therefore people will frequent it more often.  If some people do not think of all their questions during their time on the GTD website, then where do they go for answers?  We support each other on this forum and appreciate the times Dr. D drops in and answers our questions.  I understand he wants to build up the GTD website and may even have some contractual obligations.  But I don’t think it should be prohibited to ask GTD questions here, just not expect Dr. D to answer them.  The forum members can come up with their own theories.  Maybe just some gentle nudging from Dr. D when we stray too far off the correct path.
(think)
Posted by: shazamda, Thursday, February 7, 2008, 1:37am; Reply: 19
Quoted from Dr. D
Please don't ask these types of GTD questions on this forum. The top of the forum says:

A forum for the informal discussion Dr. D'Adamo's newest book. Please note that the official website for The GenoType Diet is http://www.genotypediet.com. Dr. D'Adamo does not respond to posts on this forum.

I'm not finding a forum on that site,
http://www.genotypediet.com  
Am I missing it?   ??)
Posted by: C_Sharp, Thursday, February 7, 2008, 1:47am; Reply: 20
Quoted from shazamda

I'm not finding a forum on that site,
http://www.genotypediet.com  
Am I missing it?   ??)


Forums are called "Message boards"
on the genotype diet site.

Look in the navigation bar on the left side of the screen after you login.-->You should find a "Message boards" button there.

---

One you are are there you will see the threads related to your genotype.

To see threads from other genotypes click on the underlined "Genotype Diet" link.

Or if you like to use the "List Hottest Thread" link here.
Look for "Active Discussions" link in the shortcuts area
at the top left of the pages in the message board section.

"Active Discussions" will show you the threads with recent posts.

Posted by: shazamda, Thursday, February 7, 2008, 2:09am; Reply: 21
Quoted from C_Sharp

Look in the navigation bar on the left side of the screen after you login


I think the "login" part is the problem.  
http://www.genotypediet.com isn't a freebie site is it?   ??)  Isn't it about $260.00 per year?  That's quite a stretch for me.   :-/
Posted by: C_Sharp, Thursday, February 7, 2008, 2:35am; Reply: 22
Quoted from shazamda


I think the "login" part is the problem.  
http://www.genotypediet.com isn't a freebie site is it?   ??)  Isn't it about $260.00 per year?  


That is correct. However, there is some good content there. You may want to check it out for a week before deciding whether or not the cash outlay is worth it for you.

At the back of the Genotype book, their is a coupon (actually a URL) for a week free trial.

I also have a concern with the price, but the last time I went to a doctor for a physical it was around $260. And the only thing I got there was advice that I had too much wax in my ears and I should clean them out more often.

So if the genotype website can save me one doctor's visit a year it will pay for itself. I am not sure how I will know it has saved me a visit. But I have been pondering on how to cost justify my participation on the genotype site.

Posted by: Carol the Dabbler, Thursday, February 7, 2008, 4:12am; Reply: 23

Quoted from Novelia
I apologize for asking the question here. Because you have popped in a few times to reply to people here, I forgot what it says at the top of the page.


Quoted from 2374
I don’t want to get in trouble for asking a question in the wrong place ....


I don't think we need to pack up and go home just yet.  If Dr. D didn't want us to discuss the GTD here on the BTD web site, he wouldn't have created this nice GTD forum for us.  Novelia, you didn't address your question to Dr. D, you posted it to the forum at large, and as RedLilac put it, we support each other (nicely said, Arlene).  If Dr. D didn't want to pop in and answer the occasional question, then he wouldn't do it.

I don't understand exactly what is going on here, but it's clearly some sort of misunderstanding.
Posted by: Novelia, Thursday, February 7, 2008, 4:41am; Reply: 24
Yes, in Dr. D's response to me, he wrote:


Please don't ask these types of GTD questions on this forum. The top of the forum says:

  

    A forum for the informal discussion Dr. D'Adamo's newest book. Please note that the official website for The GenoType Diet is http://www.genotypediet.com. Dr. D'Adamo does not respond to posts on this forum.

...

But you're right, Carol, I didn't address it specifically to him. I did hope that he would respond to it because he pops in from time to time. But when I got his  reply, I actually forgot that I hadn't addressed it to him because of his reply, so that's why I apologized. How odd it all is! :)



Posted by: Carol the Dabbler, Thursday, February 7, 2008, 4:50am; Reply: 25

Quoted from Novelia
... you're right, Carol, I didn't address it specifically to him. However, I did hope that he would respond to it so that's why I apologized - somehow I *thought* I had addressed it to him because of my hope!




Maybe he's a mind reader!   ;)

Posted by: 2330 (Guest), Thursday, February 7, 2008, 6:03am; Reply: 26
Maybe we're ALL just stressed out and trying to work these things out in that condition. The give and take in this discussion seems pretty clear to me, and I can easily see why Novelia is confused. On the other hand, if we pick out a single item and stress out over it, Dr. D. would spend all his time to the end of next year trying to keep us in gear. One thing for sure, if he doesn't already have the next book written, he is getting plenty of general ideas about where the rough waters are and how to calm them!  (smile)
Posted by: Dr. D, Thursday, February 7, 2008, 11:49am; Reply: 27
Quoted Text
I don't understand exactly what is going on here, but it's clearly some sort of misunderstanding.


If it was addressed to the community on a whole, then yes, that lets me off the hook.

However, besides guessing (worse than no answer)  who else would be expected to answer it?

??)
Posted by: 2330 (Guest), Thursday, February 7, 2008, 3:21pm; Reply: 28
Okay, I certainly won't be guessing anymore! (smile)
Posted by: Carol the Dabbler, Thursday, February 7, 2008, 5:52pm; Reply: 29

Quoted from Dr. D
If [the question] was addressed to the community on a whole, then yes, that lets me off the hook.

However, besides guessing (worse than no answer) who else would be expected to answer it?


The person who posts a question presumably does not know the answer.  They may, in fact, have absolutely no idea of how technical the question really is.  For all they know, one of the regular forum members might be able to at least shed some light on it -- after all, regular forum members have been able to do a pretty good job of answering a lot of the questions posted here.

It's kind of analogous to asking the guy at the next desk how he got those funny little scratches on his face, only to have him get all flustered.  It's a very personal question to him, because he knows that he got the scratches from making a hasty exit through the rose bushes under his girlfriend's bedroom window when her husband came home unexpectedly.  But because you had no idea what the answer might be, you had no way of knowing that it was a personal question.

(Not accusing you of romping through the rose bushes, Dr. D!)

You have been generous enough to answer the occasional question here.  So when we post a question, we may hope you'll answer it, but we realize that the decision is entirely up to you.  You've got enough work to do already without feeling "obligated" to participate here.  But any time you'd like to pop in for a change of pace, we'll be real glad to see you!

Posted by: Novelia, Thursday, February 7, 2008, 9:35pm; Reply: 30
LOL for the guy in the rose bush example, Carol. :) Not to say Dr. D is doing anything like that! :)

I love it when Dr. D posts to help out. Thank you Dr. D! I also agree that often the members of this forum can answer these kinds of questions, sometimes because they have read more of Dr. D's work than I have or go to his clinic as a patient, etc. That's why I post here, hoping someone will know or direct me to something on this vast site to help :)

Dr. D's answer to my question is complex, it's true. For all I knew it was the salicyclates in coconut oil (some people have a salicyclate sensitivity and have to follow the FailSafe diet recommendations).

So, in sum, I'm grateful for your reply, Dr. D, and I'm grateful for the replies of other people on the forum whenever I ask questions. :)
Posted by: Dr. D, Thursday, February 7, 2008, 11:31pm; Reply: 31
Seems like a plan. :)
Posted by: RedLilac, Saturday, February 9, 2008, 2:20am; Reply: 32
I love your explanation Carol.  ;D We just have to keep Dr. D. from running through too many rose bushes, when some of the more experienced forum members can offer an alternative non-scratchy path. :K)
Posted by: Green Root, Thursday, March 3, 2011, 3:25pm; Reply: 33
And what about salicylates in olive oil?
http://www.zipworld.com.au/~ataraxy/Salicylates_list.html

I'm not claiming anything, I just ask. :)
Posted by: Desiree, Thursday, March 3, 2011, 7:01pm; Reply: 34
Quoted from Dr. D
I don't like the effects of one of the main constituents (lauric acid) on the cytochrome CYP4A subfamily (CYP4A11) when used by GT4; in particular liver peroxisomal oxidation, which is about the last thing GT4 needs in this world.


Straight from the horses mouth - thank-you, thank-you, thank-you.  I'm always wanting to know the "why's".  Now I know.  When I thought I was a Nomad I had plenty bought the EV-Coconut oil.  Tastes good in cookies but Lord knows I don't need any "liver peroxisomal oxidation" - I'll keep it to make my feet soft!
Posted by: Desiree, Thursday, March 3, 2011, 7:02pm; Reply: 35
Ding dang it al and flibity gibit! My quote thingie didn't work!! ::)
Posted by: Green Root, Thursday, March 3, 2011, 9:51pm; Reply: 36
Never mind Desiree... topical use is fine to me also... and oil pulling after teeth brushing and flossing with peppermint / oregano / lemon oil :) (sesame oil does it, too)
Posted by: Green Root, Saturday, March 5, 2011, 9:52pm; Reply: 37
I quote myself:

Quoted from Green Root
And what about salicylates in olive oil?
http://www.zipworld.com.au/~ataraxy/Salicylates_list.html

I'm not claiming anything, I just ask. :)


I know reasons to avoid coconut oil (but what about green coconut water?? ;D ), especially for Explorers, but this salicylate thing cannot be so severe - otherwise the status of olive oil wouldn't be so good. Right? :)

Is this liver peroxisomal oxidation possible harm to Hunters, too? Or do Hunters have usually a liver with more stamina? At least I don't recognize any harms with my liver when I used to eat coconut oil. Instead, I was thin and didn't gain weight. So I think maybe coconut oil influenced my thyroids...
Posted by: Lola, Sunday, March 6, 2011, 5:29am; Reply: 38
you do have a swami, right?

that might be the answer to all your questions, and you wouldn t have to do so much guess work, not leading anywhere, for your lack of molecular biology, which Dr D somehow exceeds in. ;)
Posted by: RedLilac, Sunday, March 6, 2011, 3:55pm; Reply: 39
I have never liked coconut.  I tried cooking with the coconut oil pre-GTD era but it made me sick so I stopped.  Just shrugged my shoulders, another thing touted as healthy for all that I couldn’t handle.

A friend of mine who is BT B, but doesn’t know her secretor status & hasn’t done the GTD, recently bought some coconut milk.  Neither Nomads nor Explorers should have the milk.  But coconut oil is a super food for Nomads and an avoid for Explorers.  Coconut meat is a black dot for Nomads and an avoid for Explorers.  Should I advise her against the coconut milk?  She follows the BTD which doesn’t mention coconut at all?
Posted by: ruthiegirl, Sunday, March 6, 2011, 8:43pm; Reply: 40
Which book is she using that doesn't mention coconut? It's listed in the TypeBase as an avoid for everybody except A nonnies.  http://www.dadamo.com/typebase4/depictor5.pl?1

Of all the foods I've given up on BTD, coconut milk is probably the only one I really miss. But now that I can have some limited dairy, I dont miss it quite so much. I can't have that coconut milk ice cream, but I can bake a compliant cheesecake.
Posted by: Green Root, Monday, March 7, 2011, 2:06pm; Reply: 41
Lola, yes I really have. I'll update that to my profile :)

It just is sometimes hard to 100 % trust to avoid information that could maybe be changed if the quality of the food was better. Although I trust to this theory quite much, there just are many other good sources to food recommendations, too :D but SWAMI is one of the best alternatives, definitely.
Posted by: purlgirl, Thursday, March 10, 2011, 12:13am; Reply: 42
Quoted from Dr. D
I don't like the effects of one of the main constituents (lauric acid) on the cytochrome CYP4A subfamily (CYP4A11) when used by GT4; in particular liver peroxisomal oxidation, which is about the last thing GT4 needs in this world.

Dr. Enig is a fine lipid chemist, but has a tendency to think coconut oil is just wonderful in everyone.  
In English:
Some people don't do as well as others running a soap through their bile ducts.


Interesting discussion - as a GT3 Teacher -  SWAMI gave me Coconut oil as a beneficial.

I appreciate knowing a little about how it works.   soap through their bile ductsis probably exactly what I need to resolve my intestinal/elimination  problems.

Also  coconut milk and coconut meat are temporary avoids for me --- :D  I'll get to have coconut macaroons cookies again.

Another grt example of how personal our SWAMI programs are.
Posted by: Lola, Thursday, March 10, 2011, 3:59am; Reply: 43
enjoy your coconut oil! :)

the quote above is specifically for GT4
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