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BTD Forums  /  The GenoType Diet  /  Black dots to eat straight away??
Posted by: yvonneb, Monday, January 21, 2008, 11:23pm
Here is a thought:

If one has not eaten a food at all because of following the BTD (obviously for longer than 3 months) and this food now turns out to be a black dot, surely one does not have to wait the 3-6 months and can eat this particular food straight away?

It would mean a bigger choice of foods for everyone!

Posted by: kipperkid, Monday, January 21, 2008, 11:26pm; Reply: 1
It sounds a v. tempting theory, but I wonder whether the aim is that you are clear of ALL black dots for 3-6 months before reintroducing them?  I hope you are right, would certainly open up a few more possibilities......
Posted by: Cheryl_O_Blogger, Monday, January 21, 2008, 11:31pm; Reply: 2
I'd like to believe this would be the intent, but I'd guess it's 3-6 months with the whole mix of foods, especially emphasizing the new superfood list, then add in some black dots.  For me more of the black dot foods are items I could have before and are now restricted.
Posted by: NewHampshireGirl, Monday, January 21, 2008, 11:34pm; Reply: 3
I like your way of thinking, Yvonne. (shhh)(sunny)
Posted by: Mercedes, Monday, January 21, 2008, 11:42pm; Reply: 4
My guess would be no.

The fact is most of us have been eating a combination of foods that negatively influence how our genes behave. I think the point is to spend time with as little negative food as possible. So perhaps having one or two black dot avoids will work, but treating them all as neutral immed seems counter intuitive to me.

And the thing to remember is those black dots are like infrequent neutrals- they aren't to be staples in your diet, but more like the 1-2 times a week. Letting them all in immediately is likely to further dependence on them, and potentially lead to a diet of most black dot avoids, which would defeat the purpose of following the diet.
Posted by: Melissa_J, Tuesday, January 22, 2008, 12:58am; Reply: 5
I agree with Mercedes, in order to turn on all the good genes and turn off all the bad ones, I think the black dot avoids should all be avoided for a time.  After that time, they are infrequent, if at all.

I don't always live by that thinking, and did have a small amount of a black dot over the weekend (restaurant and family events), and if I have to go hungry, eat a toxin, or eat a black dot toxin, I usually choose the black dot.  I do try not to do that at all, but life happens.  I am doing much better with compliance on GTD than I was on BTD O-non, but not quite perfect.  
Posted by: MyraBee, Tuesday, January 22, 2008, 1:06am; Reply: 6
Quoted from Melissa_J
I am doing much better with compliance on GTD than I was on BTD O-non, but not quite perfect.  


Me, too on the compliance level with GTD.  I really wonder why this is?  Especially for me, an O-Nonnie Hunter, the diets are not that different.  (huh)
Posted by: Melissa_J, Tuesday, January 22, 2008, 1:30am; Reply: 7
Yes, I just feel more satisfied.

Having the holidays over with is helpful, as well, but I think there's more to it than that.

Even when I do cheat, I want to cheat by having more portions of a superfood, rather than craving an avoid/toxin.
Posted by: Mercedes, Tuesday, January 22, 2008, 2:29am; Reply: 8
Boo on you guys who find this easy!! :P I had to cave and have a banana yesterday... before BTD I didn't even like bananas! Yesterday I would have paid 50$ to enjoy that banana... it was sooooooooooo delicious...
Posted by: Lisalea, Tuesday, January 22, 2008, 2:39am; Reply: 9
Quoted from Mercedes

And the thing to remember is those black dots are like infrequent neutrals- they aren't to be staples in your diet, but more like the 1-2 times a week.

I was wondering where u read this and if I perhaps missed it in the GTD diet book  ??)
Thanks Mercedes  :K) ;D ;) :)
Posted by: geminisue, Tuesday, January 22, 2008, 2:45am; Reply: 10
I don't have my book here right know, but I think it is near the bottom of the page before the Hunter Food List starts,
Posted by: Lloyd, Tuesday, January 22, 2008, 3:06am; Reply: 11
Quoted from Lisalea

I was wondering where u read this and if I perhaps missed it in the GTD diet book  ??)
Thanks Mercedes  :K) ;D ;) :)


The book says they can be reintroduced in moderate amounts. We all have different interpretations of what that means.  ;D
Posted by: Lisalea, Tuesday, January 22, 2008, 3:47am; Reply: 12
Quoted from Lloyd


The book says they can be reintroduced in moderate amounts. We all have different interpretations of what that means.  ;D

That's for sure  :D :P


Posted by: Carol the Dabbler, Tuesday, January 22, 2008, 4:07am; Reply: 13

I think all of the lists are meant as guidelines, rather than as hard-and-fast rules.  The closer one adheres to the guidelines, the more benefits one is likely to receive.

I don't recall whether this was in the book, or in one of Dr. D's blogs before the book came out, but he said that this diet is more about what you DO eat than about what you DON'T eat.

On the BTD, there are relatively few Beneficials, lots of Neutrals, and relatively few Avoids, so we mostly concentrated on avoiding our Avoids -- at least that's what I did.  On the GTD, there are a whole slew of Superfoods, so it's not all that difficult to eat mostly Superfoods.

If I have an occasional craving for a Toxin, I don't think it'll kill me to have a little (though I do generally manage to distract myself with something equally yummy from the Superfoods column).  And if I'm eating in a restaurant where they put heaven-knows-what into the food, I'll just do the best I can.
Posted by: Mercedes, Tuesday, January 22, 2008, 4:12am; Reply: 14
I'll admit, I can't find it in the book. I think someone here posted that neutrals are supposed to be 2-5 times a week. If neutrals are to be 2-5 times a week, black dots should be a fair bit less.

They are put on the list as toxins, not neutrals, so they can't very well become "neutral" the same as other neutrals. Moreover, the book clearly states if you wind up with some probs after following the GTD for a while, (such as weight gain) then cut back on those black dot avoids. Which, would logically mean that unlike real neutrals that just act like food, these foods do have an effect, and a negative one, though perhaps only mildly.

None the less, if things are to be "reintroduced in modest amounts" (not moderate, but modest, which I think is less than moderate, even though the dictionary often uses moderate to define modest...), I wouldn't consider something I have 5 days a week to be modest. At five days a week, that's definitely a staple.

And of course, I'd assume the amount matters. One thing to have a teaspoon of a black dot sweetener or condiment, vs. a whole plate of black dot pasta.

Everyone's allowed to cheat. I'm on the record as not yet willing to give up my mayo. However, I'm at least fully aware and conscious that it's not following the diet. But it seems some of us (not pointing fingers, just making an observation) are trying to rationalise things that are "cheating" or not following the diet the way Dr. D likely intended.

(EG: My money is on the lack of "cream" being listed as an avoid is a typo, and cream isn't neutral. Oh how I wish it was, but I don't think so- so I'm not going hog wild on delightfully divine whipped cream...)
Posted by: Lloyd, Tuesday, January 22, 2008, 4:19am; Reply: 15
Quoted from Mercedes


(EG: My money is on the lack of "cream" being listed as an avoid is a typo, and cream isn't neutral. Oh how I wish it was, but I don't think so- so I'm not going hog wild on delightfully divine whipped cream...)


Cream has never been a tested item in BTD and there is no reason to think it was a tested item in GTD. Tested options include half n' half, cream cheese and butter as closest relatives. They each have advantages and disadvantages in the comparison.
Posted by: Carol the Dabbler, Tuesday, January 22, 2008, 4:20am; Reply: 16

OK, I found the "what you eat, not what you avoid" quote.  It's on pages 181-2.  In the same section, Dr. D also says, "... when you start your GenoType Diet, begin by emphasizing what your GenoType best thrives upon, then slowly move some of the nonrecommended food out of the pantry and refrigerator."

I was also trying to find the "2 to 5 times per week" bit that Mercedes mentioned, but don't offhand see it.  I'm sure she's right about that, though.  And I agree, if Neutrals are to be eaten only 2 to 5 times per week, then surely black-dot Toxins are to be eaten less often than that (after the waiting period) -- I was thinking 1 or 2 times per week, like Mercedes.
Posted by: Squirrel, Tuesday, January 22, 2008, 4:21am; Reply: 17
Yes the paragraph is on the bottom of the intro page of each of the Genotypes' diets. The wording is the same for each. The black dot foods need only be avoided for a short time to regain your balance, after 3-6 months you can reintroduce them in modest amounts unless you're fighting an illness or the weight's going back on.

Carol - A and O BTDs overlapped quite well. But Gatherer and Teacher ones don't. Superfoods are not as abundant for everyone, certainly not in Asia. Try telling an Asian Gatherer to cut out rice for 3-6 months!! :o :o

I wish it were different.
Posted by: 2330 (Guest), Tuesday, January 22, 2008, 4:32am; Reply: 18
Okay, here is one quote: "If a food is not listed, it is essentially neutral, meaning that the nutrients in it will benefit you but won't specifically help you restore balance to your genes or health to your cells.  Feel free to eat these foods---but don't neglect the foods I recommend."
Posted by: Carol the Dabbler, Tuesday, January 22, 2008, 4:38am; Reply: 19

Squirrel -- You're obviously working under a couple of handicaps, with you and your husband being two different GenoTypes, plus trying to follow a diet designed by an American doctor when you live in Asia.

Short of moving elsewhere, you're pretty well stuck with the second handicap, so I agree with what some posters were saying on your other thread, that it's easier to just fix different foods when necessary.  That is, it's more work, but at least it's doable.

One other thing you might do is compile a list of foods that are mentioned on *other* GenoType's food lists, but *not* mentioned on yours (e.g., Jackfruit).  These are presumably Neutrals, and could extend your options considerably.

I have posted threads with Neutral fruits and vegetables for Teachers, and plan to post other Teacher Neutrals as well.  So you could concentrate on figuring out what the Gatherer Neutrals are, and use my Teacher lists.
Posted by: Squirrel, Tuesday, January 22, 2008, 5:00am; Reply: 20
Oh wow I never thought of the neutral listings from other types!
Where's my brain??!! (smacks forehead and probably kills a few more precious brain cells)
Thank you - I will!

We'll be moving back to the UK in the autumn so yes, things will be different there. I'll definitely be reassessing my options when we get back.

It's a shame though, because we wanted to do this for fertility reasons, and we can only get treatment here. Once we get home for good, it's bye-bye baby and probably relaxing the diet to 70%+ compliance anyway. We've been so super-careful so far but it hasn't got us anywhere yet (sigh).

Anyway! Onwards and upwards. Off to check the lists!  :K)
Posted by: Carol the Dabbler, Tuesday, January 22, 2008, 4:21pm; Reply: 21

Finally found the 2 to 5 times per week quote(s) -- it's not in the GenoType Diets chapter where I was looking last night, it's in Chapter Seven ("Meet the GenoTypes"), at the end of each GenoType's section (e.g., for Teachers, it's on page 146):

Quoted Text
Unlisted foods are foods that don't appear to do much good or bad.  They are essentially neutral, and can be used judiciously (2-5 times weekly).  The nutrients in them will benefit you, but they won't specifically help you restore balance to your genes or health to your cells.


There you go, Mercedes -- we weren't imagining things!
Posted by: kipperkid, Tuesday, January 22, 2008, 5:11pm; Reply: 22
OK, being thick here............ (think)(huh)

Does that mean any individual neutral food can be used 2-5 times weekly, or that 2-5 portions of neutral food in total are allowed?
Posted by: Carol the Dabbler, Tuesday, January 22, 2008, 5:39pm; Reply: 23

I'm thinking it means no more than 2-5 times per week for *each* Neutral food.  (Of course, you don't *have* to eat any Neutrals at all.)  The basic idea seems to be, you can eat them, just don't use them as a staple.  If, say, Asian pears are a Neutral for you, don't go eating them every day if you could be eating some Superfood fruits instead.  I would also think it's better to eat a variety of foods, Superfoods when possible, than to concentrate on just a few foods.




Posted by: kate4975, Tuesday, January 22, 2008, 7:29pm; Reply: 24
Quoted from kipperkid
OK, being thick here............ (think)(huh)

Does that mean any individual neutral food can be used 2-5 times weekly, or that 2-5 portions of neutral food in total are allowed?


I would think 2-5 portions from that category (e.g. 2-5 portions of neutral fruits, 2-5 portions of neutral poultry, etc.). Of course, if your superfood portions are smaller for that category in general, I would go with the lower neutral portion as well.
Posted by: Chloe, Tuesday, January 22, 2008, 7:52pm; Reply: 25
THis is strange but maybe someone understands. Some of the genotypes have "cherries" listed
a black dot food. I was looking at the ingredient lists of the genotype supplements. There is
a blend of nutrients, as part of a genoplex mixture that gives all formulas black cherry
concentrate (I assume that is what is is) as an ingredient along with turmeric, green
tea, garlic, dandelion, bilberry..  I'm thinking to myself, I'm supposed to be avoiding eating cherries for 3-6 months but I'm going to ingest cherry as a concentrate if I take any of these supplements for my genotype??  I don't quite understand the difference between cherries as a food and cherries as a concentrate. Avoiding eating a food for 3-6 months, but getting the food anyway by taking a pill?  Why would that be particularly beneficial?  
Posted by: ABJoe, Tuesday, January 22, 2008, 8:18pm; Reply: 26
Quoted from kipperkid
OK, being thick here............ (think)(huh)

Does that mean any individual neutral food can be used 2-5 times weekly, or that 2-5 portions of neutral food in total are allowed?


When I read the quote from the book, I read that the category of Unlisted foods is used as the "They" in "They can be used judiciously..."  This would mean that you can use 2-5 servings of the entire category per week.

Think about, for instance, the Warrior diet where the red meats frequency is 0-1 per week.  Allowing 2-5 Neutrals from this category alone would be unthinkable for anyone serious about benefitting from the diet...  The focus should definitely be on the Superfoods, with very little from the unlisted or black dot categories...
Posted by: Carol the Dabbler, Tuesday, January 22, 2008, 9:59pm; Reply: 27

You may be right, ABJoe, it could be 2-5 servings of Neutrals for each category.

I think the main thing is to eat as many Superfoods as possible -- then there's not much room for Neutrals!
Posted by: jayneeo, Tuesday, January 22, 2008, 10:20pm; Reply: 28
very clever of him (Dr. D) to emphasize "what you do eat" since if we focus on that we won't feel deprived, rather than focussing on "avoid" foods, which has drawn criticism in the past. Also, as in WW (another famous diet), if you eat all the stuff you're s'posed to you hardly have room to think up bad stuff to eat.
Posted by: SusieD, Wednesday, January 23, 2008, 12:02am; Reply: 29
just confirmed my genotype (GT3 teacher) and all this info and discussion can be somewhat overwhelming, BUT so glad to have access to help and support. i agree with the positive vs negative approach. like being rewarded with praise for one thing you do right instead of hearing about the ten that you did wrong! i remember reading about a psychological study that asked test subjects to NOT think of a particular idea. can you think about anything else when asked to not think about, say "the color black"? makes me think about the color black! lesson learned? quit thinking about what is an avoid/less frequent or even neutral, but concentrate on those superfood/diamonds!
Posted by: Carol the Dabbler, Wednesday, January 23, 2008, 6:28pm; Reply: 30

Quoted from Chloe
Some of the genotypes have "cherries" listed as a black dot food. I was looking at the ingredient lists of the genotype supplements. There is a blend of nutrients, as part of a genoplex mixture that gives all formulas black cherry
concentrate ....  I'm thinking to myself, I'm supposed to be avoiding eating cherries for 3-6 months but I'm going to ingest cherry as a concentrate if I take any of these supplements for my genotype?


I can't give you an across-the-board answer to your question, but I have noticed that although Cherries are a Black Dot for Teachers, yet Cherry juice is a Superfood.  So I'm thinking that either a) whatever's bad for me in cherries is in the pulp, not the juice, or b) cherry juice has such a concentrated amount of good stuff that it outweighs the bad stuff.  I suspect that cherry concentrate or cherry extract is used in some of the GTD supplements for one of those reasons, or for some similar reason.

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