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BTD Forums  /  The GenoType Diet  /  No soy sauce for Explorers?
Posted by: shazamda, Friday, January 18, 2008, 5:08am
I don't know what "Soybean sauce, tamari" is.  (Here we go again)  Is it soysauce?  Is Bragg's Aminos ok?

Holy Basil is an herb used for stress and immune support, why would it be in the Condiments/Additives section?  (Don't you wish I would go away)

And while I'm at it, is there any condiment left worth putting on a salad or sandwich?  Assuming there is anything left to make a sandwich of. I don't think I did well with spelt bread.  Turkey on a rice cake is not a sandwich but it would taste better with a condiment... not honey thank you.

Posted by: Novelia, Friday, January 18, 2008, 6:38am; Reply: 1
Below is a tamari that might be worth trying for those who are allowed soy products. It's also wheat- free, but the alcohol used in it is derived from corn (probably rather standard).

http://www.san-j.com/product_info.asp?id=3

To learn more about what tamari is:

http://www.gourmetretailer.com/gourmetretailer/search/search_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1086653

http://www.san-j.com/faq.asp#1

Weird about holy basil! Don't go away. :) I want to know the answers to these kinds of questions, too. :)

Cream cheese is neutral (not listed) so you could try that as a condiment if you tolerate dairy. As long as it doesn't have additives that are toxins, great. :)

I find that turkey goes very well with thyme, so cream cheese mixed with thyme and/or other herbs could be nice as a condiment for turkey.


Posted by: Mercedes, Friday, January 18, 2008, 8:32am; Reply: 2
yeah, I refused to give up vinegar and hence mayo on BTD... I won't give it up for GTD either... I'd rather live 10 years less, than live 40 without mayo...
Posted by: Henriette Bsec, Friday, January 18, 2008, 9:44am; Reply: 3
I really think that homemade mayo - made with egg yolks and lemonjuice and oil is lovely
and something that should be ok after 3 months - due to the egg *dot rating
-but Iīm not following the advice on eggs  :o :B so  :-/

Cream cheese is nice.
I make it myself :
I use organic sourcream without anything but cream and milk bacteria
I mix the 18 % and the 38 % ( That are the ones we get here) I find it too fatty if I just use the 38 % one and too tart if I just use the 18 % )

- and put it into a cheese cloth and let is drip /drain-
I add a little bit of sea salt - maybe herbs and it is very good
Posted by: 1323 (Guest), Friday, January 18, 2008, 2:04pm; Reply: 4
Quoted from Mercedes
yeah, I refused to give up vinegar and hence mayo on BTD... I won't give it up for GTD either... I'd rather live 10 years less, than live 40 without mayo...


I give it up because it hurts my tummy.  I ate it for YEARS back in my hardcore dieting days and now I have tons and tons of white lines on my fingers and have quite a bit of osteoarthritis in my thumb joints and neck and knees and I'm not that old to be having all that.  

Of course it wasn't just the vinegar but the vinegar messes with my tummy and that causes inflammation.

Not trying to change your mind about what you eat but I've heard there is a compliant olive oil mayo...

If you look there are alternatives.  There is so much food in the world to eat that I'm shocked every day now that I am switching to alternatives I like and can put down the old things that are not good for me.

For me it's ok not to live 10 more years but the years I do have I want to be healthy.  I don't want to end up crippled with diseases I could have done something about if I just made a few dietary changes.  

Posted by: kipperkid, Friday, January 18, 2008, 2:24pm; Reply: 5
since soy sauce seems to be a no-no for gatherers as well, I'm butting in on this thread! ;)

I seem to remember reading somewhere in the past (not on BTD site) that Thai fish sauce produced a similar flavour to soy sauce.....

have I got that right?  Does anyone know what the ingredients of said fish sauce are?  And would it be an acceptable alternative?  ??) questions, questions, questions........ sorry!
Posted by: Novelia, Friday, January 18, 2008, 2:34pm; Reply: 6
Yes, Thai fish sauce is kind of like soy sauce in taste. Good point! :) I used to use Golden Boy brand. The ingredients are: Anchovy fish, water, salt, and sugar.

Too bad about the sugar, but that might be standard.


From http://www.templeofthai.com/cooking/ingredients.php


'Fish sauce (nam pla): The most essential cooking ingredient for Thai food is perhaps fish sauce. This is Thailand's equivalent to soy sauce or table salt. Uncooked it has an unpleasant smell, but it adds a subtle flavor, for which there is no substitute. Small anchovy fish are fermented and the resulting liquid is strained and bottled.

Add a bit more fish sauce at the end of cooking to adjust to taste and cook a minute longer. This is perhaps the most important ingredient in Thai cooking, so give it a chance by all means. The key to appreciating it is to buy only the best quality fish sauce available. Look for clear amber colored liquid with no sediment.'

And on the same page is information about Holy Basil:

'Holy basil (bai grapow) There are two types of holy basil: a pale green or white type, and a red type, with purple reddish tinged leaves. Holy basil has a clove-like taste. Store wrapped in a paper towel inside a ziplock bag. Use it soon after buying. Available more readily in summer months, Bai graprow can be difficult to find, but check our online grocery for availability. Or try growing it yourself.'

Posted by: 1323 (Guest), Friday, January 18, 2008, 2:39pm; Reply: 7
Quoted from Novelia
Yes, Thai fish sauce is kind of like soy sauce in taste. Good point! :) I used to use Golden Boy brand. The ingredients are: Anchovy fish, water, salt, and sugar.

Too bad about the sugar, but that might be standard.



Maybe there's one out there without sugar and/or maybe someone has a recipe!

Posted by: Vicki, Friday, January 18, 2008, 2:47pm; Reply: 8
Here is a delicious substitute for mayo, it is a compliant recipe for Lemon Basil Aioli, substitute any avoids as needed:

http://inadvertentgardener.wordpress.com/2006/07/16/lemon-basil-aioli/

Posted by: kipperkid, Friday, January 18, 2008, 3:14pm; Reply: 9
Quoted from Novelia
Yes, Thai fish sauce is kind of like soy sauce in taste. Good point! :) I used to use Golden Boy brand. The ingredients are: Anchovy fish, water, salt, and sugar.


Thanks for that info Novelia.  If you can find one without sugar, looks like it might be a viable alternative for explorers.  In time it might work for me, as anchovy is black dot for gatherers - all I need to do is find one without sugar...... might take me the 3-6 months to do that!!!
Posted by: Vicki, Friday, January 18, 2008, 3:43pm; Reply: 10
Make your own anchovy paste by grinding the anchovies and then adding a bit of salt and touch of agave nectar or other compliant sweetener.  

Posted by: shazamda, Saturday, January 19, 2008, 3:08am; Reply: 11
Wow, you guys are so creative!!  Thanks. :D :D

Didn't think about the sour cream and cream cheese.  I may even try a little avocado since itís a black dot food  (BDF?).  Fish sauce, mayo recipe!  This is very good!  ;D

One of the things about the soy sauce/tamari question, is it the soy thatís the problem?  Soybeans are a no-no for Explorers.  Or could it be the fermentation?  We are warned in the book about molds, page 155 under Explorer Diet Doníts.  Until I hear otherwise Iím going to continue using the tamari and hold onto hope for Tamari being ok.   8)

It occurred to me that the base for ranch dressing is mayo and buttermilk, at least in some recipes Iíve seen.  After a few months, because buttermilk is a BDF and the eggs in mayo are a BDF, I could use the vinegar free mayo with a little buttermilk to make a ranch type dressing to use sparingly.  Don't wanna get too many BDFs, right?   ;)
Posted by: Heidi, Saturday, January 19, 2008, 3:17am; Reply: 12
It looks pretty clear to me that tamari is an avoid along with soysauce or anything else soy for that matter. I only used it on my rice, but have been adding a dash of onion and garlic powder, a little thyme and some ginger with tasty enough results.
Posted by: Lloyd, Saturday, January 19, 2008, 3:19am; Reply: 13
Looks like you get to use miso after your detox period. That's the only soy (probably lecithin granules are also okay). Miso can sate your occasional soy sauce cravings.
Posted by: proto, Saturday, January 19, 2008, 7:47am; Reply: 14
I believe all these fermented proteins like natto and soy and fish sauces have lots of glutamic acid which is now an avoid. Dr Garry Gordon has looked into this too I seem to remember in order to counter effect glutamic acid you could supplement with lipoic acid.
Posted by: Novelia, Saturday, January 19, 2008, 9:22am; Reply: 15
Very interesting, Proto! I couldn't find the lipoic acid information. Do you recall if he recommends using it to stop glutamic acid induced migraines?

Quoted from proto
Dr Garry Gordon has looked into this too[/url] I seem to remember in order to counter effect glutamic acid you could supplement with lipoic acid.




Posted by: proto, Saturday, January 19, 2008, 5:31pm; Reply: 16
Quoted from Novelia
Very interesting, Proto! I couldn't find the lipoic acid information. Do you recall if he recommends using it to stop glutamic acid induced migraines?
The article was on autism and what he calls excitotoxins like free form glutamic acid and aspartic acid. Some form of sulphur was mentioned to aid processing these toxins so I guess I came up with alpha lipoic acid as one. Regular people were said to convert glutamic acid into feel good GABA. Dr. D recommends ALA to GTD warriors to turn down thrifty genes so maybe it makes explorers underweight:-) I used to be such kind just some time ago.

Posted by: Mercedes, Saturday, January 19, 2008, 9:47pm; Reply: 17
Quoted from 1323


I give it up because it hurts my tummy.  I ate it for YEARS back in my hardcore dieting days and now I have tons and tons of white lines on my fingers and have quite a bit of osteoarthritis in my thumb joints and neck and knees and I'm not that old to be having all that.  

Of course it wasn't just the vinegar but the vinegar messes with my tummy and that causes inflammation.

Not trying to change your mind about what you eat but I've heard there is a compliant olive oil mayo...

If you look there are alternatives.  There is so much food in the world to eat that I'm shocked every day now that I am switching to alternatives I like and can put down the old things that are not good for me.

For me it's ok not to live 10 more years but the years I do have I want to be healthy.  I don't want to end up crippled with diseases I could have done something about if I just made a few dietary changes.  



Vinegar isn't an avoid for gatherers. Canola is a black dot avoid, sugar avoid. I've switched to a canola/olive oil blend mayo. I tried a sugar free ketchup that was disgusting. Adding agave didn't help at all. I may try to make my own ketchup and mayo later- but I sure as heck am not making any with lemon juice.

However, I am cutting back on my sugar. And I will try sugar subs in recipes. But I am not a legalist in my faith or my diet.
Posted by: Novelia, Saturday, January 19, 2008, 9:49pm; Reply: 18
That's very interesting again! To clarify, you took alpha lipoic acid supplements and became underweight?

Quoted from proto
The article was on autism and what he calls excitotoxins like free form glutamic acid and aspartic acid. Some form of sulphur was mentioned to aid processing these toxins so I guess I came up with alpha lipoic acid as one. Regular people were said to convert glutamic acid into feel good GABA. Dr. D recommends ALA to GTD warriors to turn down thrifty genes so maybe it makes explorers underweight:-) I used to be such kind just some time ago.



Posted by: proto, Sunday, January 20, 2008, 11:38am; Reply: 19
Quoted from Novelia
That's very interesting again! To clarify, you took alpha lipoic acid supplements and became underweight?
No, not really as I was underweight already before taking up ALA. The supplement is said to be very good for your A-type liver according to BTD encyclopedia etc. and my skin tone used to be rather yellow which may indicate a problem. I'm mostly happy with BTD as I'm now just barely of normal weight and my level of energy is up but still suffer recurrent stomach cramps and some skin problems so therefor will try to migrate towards GTD. Came to think that possibly also fermented dairy may also be to be avoided due to free glutamic acid so it pays to be careful if shopping for whey protein or such as it may be hydrolysed which again is more or less the same as fermented.

Posted by: Novelia, Sunday, January 20, 2008, 12:57pm; Reply: 20
My skin tone is rather yellow now partly because I deposit carotene from foods in my skin. I don't think I absorb it properly. :( I'll read about alpha lipoic acid. I used to take it years ago. Maybe it's time to take it again. :)

Have you eliminated wheat/gluten in your diet? That can cause stomach cramps and other problems. So can dairy of course. I had to give up both gluten grains and dairy. I used to make my own yogurt and ate high quality grains (I was making my own bread) and dairy but it wasn't okay for me. :(

Quoted from proto
The supplement is said to be very good for your A-type liver according to BTD encyclopedia etc. and my skin tone used to be rather yellow which may indicate a problem. I'm mostly happy with BTD as I'm now just barely of normal weight and my level of energy is up but still suffer recurrent stomach cramps and some skin problems so therefor will try to migrate towards GTD. Came to think that possibly also fermented dairy may also be to be avoided due to free glutamic acid so it pays to be careful if shopping for whey protein or such as it may be hydrolysed which again is more or less the same as fermented.



Posted by: proto, Sunday, January 20, 2008, 2:21pm; Reply: 21
Quoted from Novelia

Have you eliminated wheat/gluten in your diet?




We'll we get some excellent 100% rye bread here just about everywhere and I haven't been able to resist a couple of slices now and then. But that's about it as far as gluten goes. Some oat milk almost daily with decaff coffee or coffee substitute. Very little dairy as suggested for non-sec BTD. Perhaps it's just in my bio rhythm or whatever:-p
Absolutely hooked to some soy food and now I'm trying to kick the habit. Jaundice may have been due to tons of apricots and spinach that has went down. I even used to drink carrot juice daily years ago. Some slight inclination to food addictions maybe.
Posted by: Chloe, Sunday, January 20, 2008, 6:30pm; Reply: 22
Explorers, I have a question I want to pose to you all.  Given you're all following an
Explorer diet, I need to understand the process for choosing one type over another
when my blood type, rh status and secretor status doesn't match an Explorer but other
issues DO.  I'm type A positive secretor.  My head isn't round. I don't fit the physical
profile of an Explorer.  I measure as a Warrior.

I have most of the "issues" of an Explorer.  I do not tolerate caffeine.  Dr. D says that if
you don't tolerate caffeine, you are almost always an Explorer.  

I have awful problems detoxing chemicals. I can walk into a room where someone
is smoking or even breathe smokey odors on someones clothes and for hours afterwards,
I smell the smoke in my head. it happens with a lot of odors. I have food allergies and
react to things most people don't.  SO, I do fit many issues of a slow detoxifier which is why I've always taken milk thistle and many of those Explorer supplements like NAG and artichoke leaf.  I was anemic as a child which is an Explorer weakness.

My ring fingers on both hands are longer than my index.  I haven't done the fingerprint
testing nor do I know my prop status. Could either of those two factors give me the
infomation that would clear up this confusion for me?  I measured my body many times and measure as a Warrior.

If I'm off on my torso length (which is possible), it might change my status but I'm not
sure if it would make me an Explorer.  I've been eating like a Warrior for the past 10 days. It's not terrible, but it's not really feeling right. I keep going back to the type A diet which feels
most balancing.

My head isn't round and when an example of Hilary Clinton's body was used to describe
a Warrior, I thought to myself "well, she IS pear shaped like me".  AND I had I conceived
with two children really easily so I must be unusually fertile. That is a Warrior quality.

I cannot in my wildest dreams imagine myself eating goat, mutton, rabbit or lamb.  I used
to feel ready to vomit as a child thinking my mother was making lamb chops.The smell of
lamb is absolutely revolting to my senses. I am a semi vegetarian who has been eating fish and turkey (rarely) And i'm allergic to dairy, eggs and am gluten intolerant.  So, if we have
to call me a Warrior, the elimination of all meats seems truly perfect.  Out of all meats
on the Explorer list, I always seem to think I'd be fine on liver.  I love liver but avoid it
because my cholesterol was always too high.  And liver is high in cholesterol.

I've aged very gracefully as would an Explorer and Warriors seem to have a mid life rebellion which I can't relate to.

When I first read the book, I chose myself to be an Explorer immediately, but when I posted
my secretor status, my rh factor, I was told based on that alone, I could NOT be an
Explorer.

I feel like a person without a real genotype home. I cannot find myself  feeling totally
comfortable within this genotype divide until I have conclusive evidence I am specifically
one type or another.

Any suggestions for how to definitively chose between an Explorer or a Warrior?
Posted by: Gumby, Sunday, January 20, 2008, 6:49pm; Reply: 23
A+Secretors can only be Teachers or Warriors.  If you measure as a Warrior, then that is what you are.  Your torso/leg, upper leg/lower leg, and ring/index finger ratios, plus your BT and secretor status, definitively give your genotype.  The rest of the factors are interesting to know about yourself but they don't change your genotype.

I've got lots of the sensitivity issues of an explorer too, but I am most definitely a teacher.  And I am glad.  :D
Posted by: Heidi, Sunday, January 20, 2008, 7:08pm; Reply: 24
Hello Chloe,

From everything I have read, it all boils down to the measurements. If the measurments put you in the Warrior camp your a warrior even if you don't fit the profile very well.

I have been a vegetarian all my life so I can't imagine eating goat either  :X or any other meat or fish for that matter. I just can't do it even if it might be good for me.

I doubt many of us here fit our genotype perfectly.
I don't fit every aspect of the Explorer. One example is that my fingerprints are symmetrical. But over all it does feel "right".

As far as the midlife rebellion, if you have remained active ect. maybe you were lucky and avoided it.  ;D
Posted by: Chloe, Sunday, January 20, 2008, 7:25pm; Reply: 25
Thanks for your input guys....  I am certainly not calm enough to be a teacher which would
be the only other type I could be IF my torso turned out to be longer or equal to my legs.

I don't feel very teacher-like at all....so  I guess I'm back to the Warrior diet with some lingering rebellion on the part of my mind and body.  It's not that I wanted to be an Explorer particularly, it's just that I keep flipping back to their characteristics in the book  and feel so many Explorer traits are mine too~

I guess there isn't any point in knowing what my fingerprints look like or finding out if
I'm a prop taster, right?  What I mean to say is that it wouldn't change my overall results
given my measurements are the final determinant.  Is this a correct assumption?  Measurements are the most important way to type yourself once you know your BT, rh factor and secretor status?
Posted by: teri, Sunday, January 20, 2008, 7:38pm; Reply: 26
Quoted from Heidi
I doubt many of us here fit our genotype perfectly.
I don't fit every aspect of the Explorer. One example is that my fingerprints are symmetrical. But over all it does feel "right".


I am a symmetrical Explorer too on all accounts. All 4 fingers measured were identical in length, give or take 1 mm. The diet feels right regardless.
Posted by: proto, Monday, January 21, 2008, 7:04am; Reply: 27
Quoted from Chloe
  I am certainly not calm enough to be a teacher which would
be the only other type I could be IF my torso turned out to be longer or equal to my legs.
I think measuring torso length is far easier by just sitting on floor with your back against wall and then have someone marking your height using a levelled book or even by yourself using some right angle tool.

Posted by: Novelia, Monday, January 21, 2008, 10:42am; Reply: 28
Quoted from proto
I think measuring torso length is far easier by just sitting on floor with your back against wall and then have someone marking your height using a levelled book or even by yourself using some right angle tool.



I agree! It's much easier. I measured my mom that way. :)



Posted by: Novelia, Monday, January 21, 2008, 10:51am; Reply: 29
Quoted from proto

Absolutely hooked to some soy food and now I'm trying to kick the habit. Jaundice may have been due to tons of apricots and spinach that has went down. I even used to drink carrot juice daily years ago. Some slight inclination to food addictions maybe.


Hi again Proto,

I used to be hooked on soy foods, too. I have often been hooked on various foods, including carrots. :) I definitely am inclined to food addictions. My latest thing is romaine lettuce. I guess sometimes it can mean allergies, but I think that my body is needing certain nutrients, too.

I got hungry thinking of the great rye bread you have in your area. I can't eat gluten at all. I had to give it up. But wow, that bread must be great. I understand why you indulge!

Posted by: northstar, Tuesday, January 22, 2008, 5:15am; Reply: 30
Hi All,

I'm not sure if I am an Explorer or Warrior, but hoping not to be
an Explorer as I live in Japan and soy sauce is used in many, many
dishes.

Most commerical soy sauce has too many chemicals, like sugar, coloring, wheat, and so on. The trick is to purchase soy sauce made
from organic beans and prepared in the traditional Japanese way. Macriobiotic soy sauce should be safe and some stores in the States
should have it. Why is soy sauce a no-no?

By the way, my lower leg (37cm) is slightly longer than the upper leg
(36cm) which shows Warrior for A+. But, I have a whorl on my index
finger and a loop on my right hand (Explorer). My head is square and
broad (Explorer) but my blood type does not fit. As to caffeine, I can
drink it in small amounts. Anything more than 1~2 cups and I am in
trouble (heart races).
Posted by: Mercedes, Tuesday, January 22, 2008, 5:20am; Reply: 31
I'm pretty sure for gatherers, not sure about explorers, but the no soy sauce is because of soy's estogenic (sp?) properties. For gathrers pretty much anything soy related is out. Fermented or not.
Posted by: kate4975, Wednesday, January 23, 2008, 7:25pm; Reply: 32
Quoted from shazamda

And while I'm at it, is there any condiment left worth putting on a salad or sandwich?  Assuming there is anything left to make a sandwich of. I don't think I did well with spelt bread.  Turkey on a rice cake is not a sandwich but it would taste better with a condiment... not honey thank you.



It looks like cream cheese is neutral for you and cranberries are superfoods so whole cranberry sauce (you'd have to make your own with a suitable sugar substitute) with cream cheese would be delish with turkey. Or maybe you could mash up some whole cranberries right in the cream cheese.

Posted by: kate4975, Wednesday, January 23, 2008, 7:29pm; Reply: 33
Quoted from northstar
Hi All,

I'm not sure if I am an Explorer or Warrior, but hoping not to be
an Explorer as I live in Japan and soy sauce is used in many, many
dishes.

By the way, my lower leg (37cm) is slightly longer than the upper leg
(36cm) which shows Warrior for A+. But, I have a whorl on my index
finger and a loop on my right hand (Explorer). My head is square and
broad (Explorer) but my blood type does not fit. As to caffeine, I can
drink it in small amounts. Anything more than 1~2 cups and I am in
trouble (heart races).


Northstar,

Measurements trump any strength testing (fingerprints, head shape, etc.). I am very close on strength testing between Hunter and Nomad but my measurements say I'm a Nomad. You may identify with traits across many GTs but the torso/leg/finger measurements override it all.
Posted by: northstar, Thursday, January 24, 2008, 1:38am; Reply: 34
Quoted from kate4975


[quote]Northstar,

Measurements trump any strength testing (fingerprints, head shape, etc.). I am very close on strength testing between Hunter and Nomad but my measurements say I'm a Nomad. You may identify with traits across many GTs but the torso/leg/finger measurements override it all.


That is what others have told me. Anyway, I am sticking with the Warrior diet and guidelines and doing quite well on it. I have lost weight and feel full energy! So, Warrior it is! Thumbs up for GTD!

(woot)
Posted by: proto, Thursday, January 24, 2008, 8:08am; Reply: 35
Quoted from kate4975


It looks like cream cheese is neutral for you

??)
Posted by: Henriette Bsec, Thursday, January 24, 2008, 10:40am; Reply: 36
Cream cheese is not rated for explores = neutral ...as well as sour cream any way I feel great with it so.... ;)
Posted by: proto, Thursday, January 24, 2008, 1:05pm; Reply: 37
Quoted from Henriette Bsec
Cream cheese is not rated for explores = neutral
Oh I See :B
Posted by: shazamda, Saturday, January 26, 2008, 6:08am; Reply: 38
Quoted from kate4975
It looks like cream cheese is neutral for you and cranberries are superfoods so whole cranberry sauce (you'd have to make your own with a suitable sugar substitute) with cream cheese would be delish with turkey. Or maybe you could mash up some whole cranberries right in the cream cheese

Yum, good options.  I've got some unsweetened cranberry juice in the fridge, maybe a little of that with some cream cheese would work with a little agave syrup.  If it ends up too liquid for a rice cake it would still be a good salad dressing.  :)  I wonder if a little pecan meal to thicken it up would taste ok?  Worth trying.   ;D
8)
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