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BTD Forums  /  The GenoType Diet  /  Are we to expect detox reactions?
Posted by: Chloe, Monday, January 14, 2008, 5:18pm
Would detox symptoms be expected when transitioning?
Posted by: Brighid45, Monday, January 14, 2008, 8:14pm; Reply: 1
Hmm . . . that's a tough one to answer. I'd think it would depend to some extent on how compliant you were/are with the BTD and how long you'd been on it.
Posted by: Don, Monday, January 14, 2008, 8:21pm; Reply: 2
...and how healthy you are.
Posted by: Andrea AWsec, Monday, January 14, 2008, 9:03pm; Reply: 3
What are detox symptoms? What sort of reactions would one expect?
Posted by: Lisalea, Monday, January 14, 2008, 9:03pm; Reply: 4
My eyes have been very irritated and bloodshot ... and I know for sure that THAT'S my liver detoxifying after the X-Mas holidays when I totally lost my mind and ate everything and anything that appealed to me and oh so many cakes and cookies !!!  :B

A Naturopath once said to me that the LIVER shows up in the eyes ...  if I'm wrong please somebody correct me ...  :-/

I love it when I'm COMPLIANT 'cause I get NO sugar cravings and am generally satisfied after a meal ... well NOT always, but that's just my Italian background 'cause I love to eat and eat and eat !!!  :D

Thanks folks and let's keep this up !! :K) ;D :P ;) :)
Posted by: Lisalea, Monday, January 14, 2008, 9:07pm; Reply: 5
Quoted from Andrea AWsec
What are detox symptoms? What sort of reactions would one expect?


Everybody's different ... irritated, bloodshot eyes, mucus, aches and pains all over ... etc ... anything that starts to happens suddenly when u start to eat healthier is part of DETOX ... HEADACHES also if u've stopped sugar or especially coffee !!! ... at least this is what happens in my particular case ...

Cheers  ;D ;) :) :)
Posted by: Andrea AWsec, Monday, January 14, 2008, 9:23pm; Reply: 6
I haven't had any of those symptoms.
    If I stop coffee I do not get headaches.

I only get headaches around my menstrual cycle.
  My menstrual cycle had alot of clots this time around.


I just had lasik surgery so the bloodshot eyes are a constant right now.
  
Before starting the GT diet my bowels would wake me up, now my bowels are a bit sluggish.
Maybe I am not drinking enough? I am certainly eating more veggies and fruits.

I did get one zit below the surface of my skin it never came out just disappeared.

I don't think that the GT diet is a big enough change for me to get too many detox symptoms.

  
Posted by: 260 (Guest), Monday, January 14, 2008, 9:25pm; Reply: 7
I definitely think I am experiencing detox symptoms...a cold, achey knees, headache, fatigue/sluggishness..but my digestions gets an A+..all good signs towards a new me :)
Posted by: Chloe, Monday, January 14, 2008, 10:58pm; Reply: 8
Quoted from 260
I definitely think I am experiencing detox symptoms...a cold, achey knees, headache, fatigue/sluggishness..but my digestions gets an A+..all good signs towards a new me :)


I'm having similar symptoms...cold, achy but no fatigue or sluggishness...My digestion seems
to be on overdrive....eliminating more often...It feels like a cleansing reaction, and also my
nose keeps running.  That might be an allergy from the dairy I ate last week..

Just checking in to see if others are experiencing anything unusual.  I had detox-like symptoms
when I began the type A diet.  Maybe this is a good thing
Posted by: teri, Monday, January 14, 2008, 11:59pm; Reply: 9
Would a noticeable increase in body odour (armpits) qualify as a detox symptom? In the past few years I've noticed a distinct absence in BO but just this past week there's been a change and I've had to run out and buy some deodorant (of the natural kind, hope it works). At first I thought my hormones were being affected by the BTD/GTD but maybe it's a symptom of detoxing instead. Anyone else notice something similar?
Posted by: Lisalea, Tuesday, January 15, 2008, 12:22am; Reply: 10
Quoted from Andrea AWsec
.
  My menstrual cycle had alot of clots this time around.

A symptom of detox perhaps  ??)


Quoted from Andrea AWsec
Before starting the GT diet my bowels would wake me up, now my bowels are a bit sluggish.
Maybe I am not drinking enough? I am certainly eating more veggies and fruits.


R u drinking hot teas ?? I find that helps ... especially fennel  :)

Cheers  :K) ;D ;) :)

  


Posted by: 260 (Guest), Tuesday, January 15, 2008, 12:58am; Reply: 11
Quoted from teri
Would a noticeable increase in body odour (armpits) qualify as a detox symptom? In the past few years I've noticed a distinct absence in BO but just this past week there's been a change and I've had to run out and buy some deodorant (of the natural kind, hope it works). At first I thought my hormones were being affected by the BTD/GTD but maybe it's a symptom of detoxing instead. Anyone else notice something similar?


This is definitely a very common symptom of detox
Posted by: Andrea AWsec, Tuesday, January 15, 2008, 1:11am; Reply: 12
Must increase the tea. Yup.
I just today started the female balance protocol.
Posted by: Kristin, Tuesday, January 15, 2008, 1:37am; Reply: 13
Quoted from Andrea AWsec

Before starting the GT diet my bowels would wake me up, now my bowels are a bit sluggish.
Maybe I am not drinking enough? I am certainly eating more veggies and fruits.


For me too... and I have experienced my old nemesis of blood sugar crashes so it has me a bit freaked out....  :-/  Not sure what to do about this....

Posted by: drgnwng1, Tuesday, January 15, 2008, 2:32am; Reply: 14
I noticed inceased BO when I started BTD and it is still there  :-/ . Nothing seems to help it. Some days I can't stand being near me  :P
Posted by: Lisalea, Tuesday, January 15, 2008, 3:04am; Reply: 15
Perhaps this may be of help to all of us  ;)
http://www.dr-jo-md.com/detoxificationsymptoms.html

Cheers  ;D
Posted by: Andrea AWsec, Tuesday, January 15, 2008, 3:04am; Reply: 16
I will go out on a limb here.
   The new GT diet will mean changes for our bodies.
I do think that many people have gut issues and the change from the  GTD to the BTD addresses many of those issues.
The 3-6 month induction period is  probably how long it takes for most people to heal the gut lining, or to start the healing process.

Healing the gut is of primary  importance to overall health.
  Vitamins minerals and  bacteria can not work properly unless the gut is well.  So you can eat the Black Dot things once the gut lining is healed.

I see genius in the GTD.

I also see that you can customize the diet based on your specific health problems/needs.
  For instance, I have white lines on my prints which means I have a gluten or lectin intolerance.
My intestine has special needs to heal, I look at my dairy list, I see kefir, cottage cheese, paneer etc.  I chose kefir, it packs the most punch for my GI tract.
   I have a family history of high cholesterol I see okra on my list, I know okra has been shown to lower cholesterol.  I chose the okra.
See it is really genius,

I think I got a bit off track here but I get so excited about this, part of the diet.


;D
Posted by: TypeOSecretor, Tuesday, January 15, 2008, 7:47am; Reply: 17
Quoted from teri
Would a noticeable increase in body odour (armpits) qualify as a detox symptom? In the past few years I've noticed a distinct absence in BO but just this past week there's been a change .... Anyone else notice something similar?


That was something I really noticed after about a week on Genotype.  I was feeling pretty smug prior to that when I noticed I no longer had body odor on Blood Type.  

Lisalea - thanks for the excellent article!
Posted by: Lisalea, Tuesday, January 15, 2008, 6:25pm; Reply: 18
Quoted from TypeOSecretor



Lisalea - thanks for the excellent article!

U're very welcome, I'm glad to be of help !!  ;D ;) :)

Posted by: teri, Tuesday, January 15, 2008, 6:26pm; Reply: 19
Quoted from TypeOSecretor
That was something I really noticed after about a week on Genotype.  I was feeling pretty smug prior to that when I noticed I no longer had body odor on Blood Type.


Yes, only on genotype, about 10 days in for me.
Posted by: TJ, Tuesday, January 15, 2008, 6:59pm; Reply: 20
Quoted from Lisalea
Perhaps this may be of help to all of us  ;)
http://www.dr-jo-md.com/detoxificationsymptoms.html


I just read this, and maybe here's another piece of the puzzle for me (see BTD is helping but not enough).  I have noticed that I have been a lot more short-tempered and likely to blurt out what I was thinking (very unlike my typical behavior), since starting BTD, on now on GTD.  I also had a bad depression spell last week, Monday through Wednesday, following fasting on Saturday night to Sunday afternoon.

The above website recommended chlorella (an herb) and Ambrotose (a supplement of some kind?).  Any other supps/herbs I could use to speed along the process?

Posted by: Peppermint Twist, Tuesday, January 15, 2008, 7:28pm; Reply: 21
Okay, many parts of the following post may be "TMI" for some folks.  Kind of heavy on the graphic images involving various bodily fluids, so brace yourselves or look away now!

Well, for myself, I don't know if this is a coincidence or not, as there are several other reasons in my life I can think of that this happened now, but a few days into the Gatherer diet, I came down with THE single worst cold I've experienced in about five years.  Since going on the BTD, I very rarely get colds, which is pretty amazing, considering an ENT told me upon examining me in 1993 and, to his horror, discovering that my nasal turbinates had been surgically removed years back (which was news to me, too), among other things that he feels are travesties that happened during the same two surgeries when I was 15, to basically expect constant colds .  But between living in Florida (where I moved shortly after that ENT visit!) and the BTD, I only get colds maybe once every few years and usually it is a very mild one.  In the past ten years, I've probably had 2 or 3 bad colds, including this one.

ANYWAY, so I am now at the end (one would hope) of this thing, but it was a very "deep" cold, very intense.  I still can't taste a blasted thing, which is starting to freak me out.  

Meanwhile, my menstrual period started a week early and quite heavy, which freaked me out because I think in the last year or so I must have started "perimenapause", as my periods are usually much shorter than they used to be and lighter.  But this one means business.

It is like every system and orafice in my body is doing a deep cleanse or something!!!!!!!!!!!!

Meanwhile, I've lost several pounds I think (we just finally did get our new doctor's scale at work, which is SEVEN POUNDS heavier than the dog scale at the vet's, which I think is wrong, sadly).  I seem to be on a very even keel and steady with food, no desire to eat anything other than superfoods, basically.

I think the answer to the question in the original post is as Brighid said:  it depends on what kind of diet, exercise and lifestyle one had before the GTD as to what kind of detox reaction, if any, one would experience.  If you went from the standard American diet (as evidenced at "Temptation Island" where I work, as we speak, by cans of chocolate "Reddiwhip", Angel Food cake, and some sort of foul-looking corn syrup thing with strawberries in it) to the GTD, depending on your individual physical makeup, you might expect some detox symptoms.  Or you might be like me when I first went on ER4YT, and the only "symptoms" you experience are POSITIVE ones like all cravings going away, feeling steady and sated, feeling energized, losing weight, etc.

If you go from the already very anti-inflammatory, pure, "clean", customized, whole foods BTD to the GTD, you'd think any "detox" would be minimal.  ...But then again look at me!  I seem to be deeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeep in it, babies!!!  Again, though, there are other reasons that could explain why a cold took such hold in me right now, but the timing IS very intriguing to me.  And the period thing, also, other reasons could explain...but the timing is what it is.  And it is interesting.  And I don't know if commencing the GTD explains all or part of it, but I do feel certain that, whether it does or not,* my body is detoxing via the cold and the period and it is definitely like this:

The tide is going OUT.

* edited to add italicized blurb:  Even if the GTD is not the reason that these things happened right now, I think it is at least part of the reason that they have been so intense and powerful, why they have "gone deep".

It's actually a wonderful feeling (not that Friday, especially, and Saturday were "a wonderful feeling" with this cold--Friday was h*ll on earth, not to put too fine a point on it) to just let everything flow out and to visualize the deep detoxing and healing going on.  And now that the cold is passing, my upper-respiratory tract feels better than it has in ages, and in general I feel very sort of ....oh, so hard to explain, but it is like:  tired, but, as David Letterman would kiddingly say, yet I mean it sincerely:  "a good kind of tired".  Sticking with the tide analogy:  I feel very washed out, light, flexible (if that makes any sense) and reeee-laxed.

Niiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiice.  If I had to go through Friday to get here, so be it.

I've also been thinking, I don't want to eat any junk next time my sis and BIL get to town.  I want to go back to being the pain-in-the-b*tt family "health food nut" who won't eat anything and just sips water or tea when they are at their usual TOX FEST restaurant.  Now that I've detoxed, I don't want to "tox" again.

Will I ever consume anything "impure" again?  Sure, but I don't feel like doing so for a good, loooooooooooong time, if ever.  For now I want to not only eat pure foods, but eat Gatherer superfoods at that.

Bring on the turkey, bring on da funk!
Posted by: monstar, Wednesday, January 16, 2008, 10:14am; Reply: 22
Quoted from Lisalea


A Naturopath once said to me that the LIVER shows up in the eyes ...  if I'm wrong please somebody correct me ...  :-/



Hi Lisalea,
Yes the liver does show up in the eyes. According to Traditional Chinese Medicine, TCM, the Liver meridian "connects with the eyes, 2 branches leave the eye area: one descends across the cheek to encircle the inner surface of the lips; a second branch ascends across the forehead to reach the vertex of the head"* quoted from 'Chinese Medicine the web that has no weaver'.
The liver is also strongly associated with headaches, often due to being overloaded by a typical western diet. Milk thistle is great for helping to detox/support the liver. And obviously lot's of good quality water always helps with detoxing the body.
Best wishes for getting back on track and feeling better soon.
Posted by: Mrs T O+, Wednesday, January 16, 2008, 12:03pm; Reply: 23
Of course we should expect detox.
I remember making some major food changes in 1982(pre-BTD days), got better, but in Feb. 1983 had what I consider a bad flu. But I haven't had the flu since.
Yeah, PT, get that junk out of your system & enjoy GTDing!!
Mrs "T"    O+
Posted by: Lisalea, Wednesday, January 16, 2008, 1:55pm; Reply: 24
Quoted from monstar


Hi Lisalea,
Yes the liver does show up in the eyes. According to Traditional Chinese Medicine, TCM, the Liver meridian "connects with the eyes, 2 branches leave the eye area: one descends across the cheek to encircle the inner surface of the lips; a second branch ascends across the forehead to reach the vertex of the head"* quoted from 'Chinese Medicine the web that has no weaver'.
The liver is also strongly associated with headaches, often due to being overloaded by a typical western diet. Milk thistle is great for helping to detox/support the liver. And obviously lot's of good quality water always helps with detoxing the body.
Best wishes for getting back on track and feeling better soon.



Thank-u very much monstar for ur good wishes, I appreciate it and wish u a wealth of health as well and the same goes for everyone else on this amazing board !!  :K) ;D ;) :)
Posted by: 260 (Guest), Wednesday, January 16, 2008, 9:17pm; Reply: 25
has anyone felt a bit grouchy or irritable..since starting I can't seem to shake my mood and I also have anxiety..and I have killer headaches...but my digestion is better than its every been!!!! so I must be a gatherer & thats a good sign!!..I'm just hoping my mood will improve and these headaches will dissapear :)
Posted by: Lisalea, Wednesday, January 16, 2008, 9:22pm; Reply: 26
Quoted from 260
has anyone felt a bit grouchy or irritable..since starting I can't seem to shake my mood and I also have anxiety..and I have killer headaches...but my digestion is better than its every been!!!! so I must be a gatherer & thats a good sign!!..I'm just hoping my mood will improve and these headaches will dissapear :)


Oh yes, it's part of the detox mm134684 ... sigh ...  :-/

Hang in there ... at least  u KNOW that it's working ... woohoo !!  :K) ;D
and
such great news about ur digestion !! ;) :)
Posted by: Melissa_J, Wednesday, January 16, 2008, 9:28pm; Reply: 27
My emotions have changed, and I'm unable to hide my feelings as well as I used to (even from myself).  

My skin is less dry, softer, but also more oily (more normal)... I used to not have to wash my face or hair very often, and now have to include it in my daily routine.  

Overall, two good things, but both are taking some adjustments.

I wouldn't be surprised if gatherers can have some weird detox symptoms, since we store so many toxins in our bodies.  Days 4-6 I had some twitching eyelids and thumb, but that has since passed.
Posted by: Olerica, Wednesday, January 16, 2008, 10:05pm; Reply: 28
Quoted from Melissa_J
My emotions have changed, and I'm unable to hide my feelings as well as I used to (even from myself).  

My skin is less dry, softer, but also more oily (more normal)... I used to not have to wash my face or hair very often, and now have to include it in my daily routine.  

Overall, two good things, but both are taking some adjustments.

I wouldn't be surprised if gatherers can have some weird detox symptoms, since we store so many toxins in our bodies.  Days 4-6 I had some twitching eyelids and thumb, but that has since passed.


I've experienced this too.  Softer skin, having to wash more.  

I've a headache today that I can't drink enough water to rid myself of, which usually works.  

I'm also grumpier lately and not being able to hide emotions as easily.  I hope that passes soon.  
Posted by: 260 (Guest), Wednesday, January 16, 2008, 11:09pm; Reply: 29
can anyone tell me how long detox symptoms normally last..cuase yikes! not fun..I'm so happy someone posted his thread because I would have never thought I was detoxing and I would have thought I was going with the wrong genotype...but its good to know we're ridding our systems of all this junk!!
Posted by: OSuzanna, Thursday, January 17, 2008, 3:36am; Reply: 30
Interesting thread, I almost never got around to reading it...
A week into my BTD life, I got the flu, and don't think it was really a simple detox, since I caught it from the Mr.  However, the coughing was deeper and more productive than ever before, and when I was better, I could breathe better than in ages. This time a week or so into GTD I caught the tummy bug, intestinal mostly and have had it about a week. Today I started actually feeling like I was turning the corner. Now I wonder about the role of diet-change detox in each case. Since I started a few days on the wrong GT diet, I experienced lots of objections from my body. I got the gut flu just as I was starting the gatherer diet, so have spent most of the last week not eating.
I'm taking a whole wait & see approach. I certainly feel more relaxed between the wider food choices and the supps I've started. Relaxed and optimistic. ;)
Posted by: TypeOSecretor, Thursday, January 17, 2008, 6:02am; Reply: 31
My bizarre symptoms fluctuate - I notice some good moments too.

Has anyone else experienced dyslexia?  I have noticed it in the last few days.  I somewhat wonder if it is deja vu - something I experienced in my past but worked hard not to let it happen.  I'm trying to be relaxed now and just let it happen.
Posted by: Melissa_J, Thursday, January 17, 2008, 6:25am; Reply: 32
dyslexia...not lately, but it has come and gone in the past.  Usually my problem is forgetting vocabulary, not being able to come up with a word for a week or two.  That problem has actually improved a bit lately.  It could have been a migraine aura, I've gotten mild ones from time to time, cutting out sugar like I have would help with that.  

I also wasn't as clumsy this 'time of month' as I usually am.  I usually drop spoons and spice bottles, etc., all over the kitchen for a couple days out of each month.

My moodiness has leveled out, I'm still a bit softer around the edges, but not as emotional.
Posted by: Peppermint Twist, Thursday, January 17, 2008, 2:08pm; Reply: 33
Quoted from OSuzanna
Interesting thread, I almost never got around to reading it...
A week into my BTD life, I got the flu, and don't think it was really a simple detox, since I caught it from the Mr.  However, the coughing was deeper and more productive than ever before, and when I was better, I could breathe better than in ages.

My experience is similar:  I think there are other reasons I got hit with this cold, yet it has been a very, very profoundly "deep" cold, very productive, as you describe, and exactly like you, I am now--even though I'm still congested, productive, can't taste anything (!), and I have a ways to go, obviously, until this thing clears out--able to breathe better than I have in ages and I feel really, really GOOD even though that sounds so paradoxical to say while I'm still coming out the other side of this thing.  I'm GLAD I got this cold, if that even makes any sense to anyone.  I feel it was really an opportunity and vehicle for some deeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeep detoxification to take place.  Somehow, it also seems to have cleared out a lot of stress hormones that I've had in the mix since an awful incident on Christmas Eve, plus from ongoing stressors.  It's just like.....gone...poooof....released, remainder muted...niiiiiiiice.

For my part, I've been focusing very intensely on superfoods, drinking a ton of liquids (seltzer, green and herbal teas, homemade soda of seltzer, elderberry, grapefruit and lemon), and taking:  elderberry (liquid and capsules), CoQ10 (I usually do anyway, but a little more, like 60 mg per day instead of my usual 30 mg), and a new kind of vitamin C that is called something like "React-C", by a company I trust (Solaray).  The source is something like "strontium calcium" and I figure, hey, last time I checked, strontium was radioactive (I thought)...so much the better!  Let's nuke everything that isn't nailed down in my system!  Everyone to the fallout shelter!

Seriously, even though I still have a lot of "stuff" left in my head, I can breathe pretty well and more comfortably than I have in ages with my sitch...hard to explain, but just trust me, this cold has gone in and done a deeeeeeeeep cleaning and 42-point lube.  There may have been a tire rotation and balancing included, too, I don't know for sure.

Also, as others have remarked, there is a feeling/sense of "relaxation" on the Gatherer diet.  Maybe it is because it is less restrictive than my former O non diet, but I think it is more than that.  There is something about the foods themselves on the diet that "put me at ease".  Maybe everyone on all the GTDs feel that way when they are on their right one.  I mean, I thought the BTD was customized, but this GTD is truly like Dr. D. sat there and somehow divined the foods that match my body's specific needs perfectly.

How does he do what he does?  I don't know, but I think that when you hit on a diet that makes the dietee feel very relaxed when on it, you have hit a home run.  The body does not relax when it faces threats and invasions.  It relaxes when friends come on in to support it.  All the GTD foods are friends.  Good friends.  BFFs!
Posted by: 260 (Guest), Thursday, January 17, 2008, 3:33pm; Reply: 34
should we be exercising while we are detoxing..yesterday I attempted and was so exhausted while doing it that it made me wonder if I should wait until my body is done detoxing
Posted by: Lola, Thursday, January 17, 2008, 4:35pm; Reply: 35
just don t overdo it, it has to feel right and relaxed.....but a sweat daily is a good thing! ;)
Posted by: 1323 (Guest), Thursday, January 17, 2008, 6:29pm; Reply: 36
We aren't having much of a detox thing happening... but we were becoming really compliant with the ER4YT regimes before we embarked on this... so I think that's what has helped.

Now when we eat avoids we know it!!!  :o

And we are learning which of the new GT foods affect us badly just by eating them.  So simple... No need to go and have massive expensive food allergy testing done...
Posted by: Chloe, Thursday, January 17, 2008, 10:44pm; Reply: 37
My first detox reaction was an awful sore throat.  Next day a runny nose.  Third day, incredible
stuffed up nose and a messed up digestive system.  Diarrhea and terribly bloated.  Fourth
day, coughing.  Lots and lots of coughing and lots of productive mucous.  BUT, I'm really bad on dairy and for two days, I ate quark cheese.  So, my reaction might have been dairy related and not detox symptoms. The thing is, how would any of us know if we're eating a food our bodies
are negatively reacting to OR are we having a detox symptom.  For someone who has avoided
dairy for years, I suddenly ate decent sized portions two days in a row.

Day #5, I made an adjustment.  I followed the type A diet as my primary one, but didn't
eat poultry, dairy or gluten...I emphasized HB foods like soy and drank a lot of green tea and  within that same day my digestive system calmed down.

Day #6.  Digestive system back to normal.  Coughing but not a lot of mucous.  I was able
to add one new diamond food back....pine nuts and did fine.

And then I wondered....what if I'm NOT a Warrior at all.  I measured again.  I am a Warrior,
but a Warrior whose body can't tolerate dairy or gluten or eggs.  Plant foods and fish is
what worked for me on the type A diet.

Its day #7.  I slept great last night and although i have the remnants of what feels like I
had a bad cold, I haven't felt physically tired.  I haven't felt emotionally unstable either.

I'm keeping a food diary.  I think it will be helpful to track progress as I add new foods.

Posted by: Melissa_J, Friday, January 18, 2008, 4:18am; Reply: 38
Gatherers- find a sauna, any sauna, and use it, it does certainly help.  I was feeling pretty gummed up, but feel much better after a sauna.  It wasn't an infrared sauna, as I can't find one, but I felt so much better after using it.
Posted by: Curious, Friday, January 18, 2008, 4:49am; Reply: 39
How do you know that you are going through a detox as opposed to suspecting that something on the new diet is wrong for you?
If I eat some GTD foods (e.g. quark), I have more backpain.
When I ate some BTD foods (e.g cherries - which are now black dots) I felt better.
It seems to me that the new GTD diet (gatherer) does not work for me - or would more backpain be a detox reaction?
Posted by: greenfields, Saturday, January 19, 2008, 1:11am; Reply: 40
I was relieved to find this thread! I have been a happy BTDer for many years now and I, too, have been having detox symptoms.

The good news is that my digestive system is moving, moving, moving! I honestly can't believe how much is coming out (in a good way). Sorry if that's TMI! I'm even wondering if I should be eating less.

I had the body odor until I switched to that crystal deodorant which seems to be much better for me. I've had a cough on and off - but it's almost seeming more like I'm more sensitive to avoids now that I'm refining my diet - rather than a total detox reaction, if that makes any sense.

What has helped, though, is loading up on the superfoods. I had a really healthy lunch that put me right back on track feeling good.

I still can't believe I can eat cheese!  ;D
Posted by: Melissa_J, Saturday, January 19, 2008, 6:29am; Reply: 41
On the Quark front, I'm beginning to suspect that the smoother versions of quark don't have all the whey strained out.  If they did, it would be more like farmer's cheese or a dry cottage cheese.  I haven't actually found any yet, but the cheese lady at Wild Oats today said the Farmer's cheese they had is very much like quark.  It wasn't at all like sour cream, as some have described it.  There were also two kinds of farmer's cheese, one was hard and had rennet as an ingredient, the other was more like homemade...cottage cheese-like.  I got the cottage cheese/quarky one.
Posted by: Melissa_J, Saturday, January 19, 2008, 10:06pm; Reply: 42
I had some trouble lately figuring out what type of cheese to buy, then I think I reacted with my corn allergy to the farmer's cheese I bought, I think the "enzymes" listed in the ingredients must have been corn derivatives.  I'll be making my own cheese for the most part now.

I always have to be careful introducing new foods (darn corn allergy, among other things) but the homemade is working out well for me.  I bought some goat milk, so will soon make goat milk farmer's cheese.
Posted by: TJ, Wednesday, January 30, 2008, 3:53pm; Reply: 43
I'm gonna recommend stickying this thread: a lot of people are likely to experience detox symptoms when starting the BTD/GTD (I did!), and this thread will give them fair warning!
Posted by: ruthie, Wednesday, January 30, 2008, 5:15pm; Reply: 44
I have not had any detox on either diet.  I was sorta' lucky though, as I was a vegan when beginning the BTD.  Well come to think about it...not altogether since I had just returned from India and had been introduced to ghee.  So it was not too big a stretch for me to start eating eggs and chicken and fish in small amounts.
Shortly from returning from India and trying to go Ayurvedic, I discovered DrD's book at the library.  His stress on ghee struck a chord with me, as I was required to drink 1/4 cup of warm ghee on empty stomach according to Panchakarma healing.
When reading about the difficulties of some of the other people trying this way of eating, I feel lucky indeed.
namaste
ruthie
Posted by: 521 (Guest), Thursday, January 31, 2008, 11:45am; Reply: 45
Yeah, you can expect detox reactions.  

One thing that's happening, if I understand correctly, is that stored and neutralized toxins in your liver have to be de-neutralized to moveable intermediates in order to flush them out of your body.  

In the meantime, however, the body reacts to them immunologically.  At least this is my understanding... I read about this before I ever discovered Dr. D, in a series of books by a colon-care naturopath named Brenda Watson.
Posted by: ruthie, Thursday, January 31, 2008, 1:57pm; Reply: 46
Maybe I don't know what detox reactions are supposed to feel like.  Am I detoxing and not realizing it?
namaste
ruthie
Posted by: Peppermint Twist, Thursday, January 31, 2008, 4:12pm; Reply: 47
Quoted from Melissa_J
Gatherers- find a sauna, any sauna, and use it, it does certainly help.  I was feeling pretty gummed up, but feel much better after a sauna.  It wasn't an infrared sauna, as I can't find one, but I felt so much better after using it.

Can't.  I would get terrible nosebleeds if I went near at sauna at this point.  Even just a night or two with low dew points and my heat on results in a bloody mess...literally.  (Sorry if that was "TMI").

Too bad, because I remember enjoying saunas in the past, on the rare occasions when I had access to one.  Never tried the infrared sauna, though.  Does the infrared method of heating the air leave the humidity intact?  Does anyone know?  That would be news I could use.

Posted by: Peppermint Twist, Thursday, January 31, 2008, 4:23pm; Reply: 48
I just had, like, a lightbulb moment:

I think, even though it might sound counterintuitive,* that perhaps BTDers go through more detox when starting the GTD than regular old SADers (standard American diet eaters).  Why?  Well!  It has dawned on me that:

They (SADers) are going from a junk-laden diet to a pure diet.  Thus, while detox symptoms are certainly possible, since they are, in fact, detoxifying, they are more likely to experience what most of us experienced when starting the BTD:  nothing but positive things happening, as the junk load lifts and the pure, health-bestowing manna is infused into their systems.  But us BTDers going to the GTD are different:  we are going from an EXTREMELY pure, hypoallergenic, anti-inflammatory diet to a diet that allows a few more inflammatory, "reactionary" (in different ways, some via lectins, some via other avenues) foods into the mix.  The trade-off for this is that these foods have been determined to be good for us an an individual overall, even though they may have specific components that are a little irritating to us.  Like, take cottage cheese for Gatherers, or being allowed to have more grains in all the GTDs than O nons were allowed on the BTD or whatever example you like.

The GTD in some ways "challenges" our systems more, yet at the same time is even more individually tailored than the BTD.

But at first, our systems which are used to a VERY low-lectin, anti-inflammatory diet, might be SHOCKED to the max to have a few "challengers" enter the mix.

Did the above make any sense?  Bottom line:  if we stick it out and get through the rough surf and big breakers near the shoreline when we first enter GTD waters, we will eventually get past that to calmer, deeper waters.  Our BTD-bods just need to get re-acclimated to a few more lectins, et al., and then they will even out, reaping the many, many benefits of a diet tailored to multiple elements of our individual profiles.

* dang, that is the second time I've used the word "counterintuitive" in posts today, what are the odds?
Posted by: focused, Thursday, January 31, 2008, 6:03pm; Reply: 49
I didn't think I had any detox going on until I read the posts about colds with coughing, Wah-lah!! I experienced the same symptoms but never attributed it to a change in diet. This is indeed a good thread.
Posted by: 521 (Guest), Thursday, January 31, 2008, 6:04pm; Reply: 50
detox reactions feel like the flu.
Posted by: Lola, Thursday, January 31, 2008, 7:00pm; Reply: 51
Brenda Watson....
is she the same Dr Watson?
http://www.dadamo.com/media/radio1.htm
Posted by: Chloe, Thursday, January 31, 2008, 7:53pm; Reply: 52
Quoted from Peppermint Twist
I just had, like, a lightbulb moment:

I think, even though it might sound counterintuitive,* that perhaps BTDers go through more detox when starting the GTD than regular old SADers (standard American diet eaters).  Why?  Well!  It has dawned on me that:

They (SADers) are going from a junk-laden diet to a pure diet.  Thus, while detox symptoms are certainly possible, since they are, in fact, detoxifying, they are more likely to experience what most of us experienced when starting the BTD:  nothing but positive things happening, as the junk load lifts and the pure, health-bestowing manna is infused into their systems.  But us BTDers going to the GTD are different:  we are going from an EXTREMELY pure, hypoallergenic, anti-inflammatory diet to a diet that allows a few more inflammatory, "reactionary" (in different ways, some via lectins, some via other avenues) foods into the mix.  The trade-off for this is that these foods have been determined to be good for us an an individual overall, even though they may have specific components that are a little irritating to us.  Like, take cottage cheese for Gatherers, or being allowed to have more grains in all the GTDs than O nons were allowed on the BTD or whatever example you like.

The GTD in some ways "challenges" our systems more, yet at the same time is even more individually tailored than the BTD.

But at first, our systems which are used to a VERY low-lectin, anti-inflammatory diet, might be SHOCKED to the max to have a few "challengers" enter the mix.

Did the above make any sense?  Bottom line:  if we stick it out and get through the rough surf and big breakers near the shoreline when we first enter GTD waters, we will eventually get past that to calmer, deeper waters.  Our BTD-bods just need to get re-acclimated to a few more lectins, et al., and then they will even out, reaping the many, many benefits of a diet tailored to multiple elements of our individual profiles.

* dang, that is the second time I've used the word "counterintuitive" in posts today, what are the odds?


Yes, this makes perfect sense..A big lightbulb just went off in my head too. A BTDers body
reacting to more lectins.  Might have been what we experienced when we ate avoids after
being compliant.

I became very acidic for awhile and suddenly, my ph is back to being more alkaline.  There
was certainly a lot of upheaval we all had to endure.

In this month I managed to make myself about a 1/3 Warrior.  Rest of my diet is a basic type A. I'm trying to transition in slow motion which cut down my detoxing. I decided to leave out all my known allergic foods for now, and focus on foods that wouldn't be problematic.  But
there were some surprises. Apples for some crazy reason were totally indigestible for me.  Finally I made applesauce and like a baby with an upset stomach, it made me feel good.  Raw almonds are better for me, soaked.  



Posted by: TypeOSecretor, Friday, February 1, 2008, 12:42am; Reply: 53
I have no idea whether there are detox symptoms, chemical imbalances or changes in genetics.  All I know was I was at the doctors today - for other reasons - and mentioned the problems I was having on genotype. Constant pain in the stomach area or above - not reflux.  The doctor asked me how my bowel movements were.  I said I hadn't really had a good movement since I started genotype one month ago.  They were generally quite shallow.  He told me my digestive system was rebelling against the diet.  

About one week ago, I wanted to throw up every time I tried to eat something - I really didn't want to eat anything anymore.  I was forcing myself to eat.  There were 3 times I thought I was going to die in the night the pains were so severe and affected many parts of my body.  I was constantly out of my body and the pain was quite severe.  I was dizzy quite often and was afraid of falling down.  The doctor said detox symptoms should only last a couple of weeks.  He told me if I wanted to continue genotype, I could do it for one more month, but should drop it if my symptoms did not get better. He said no matter how valid the theory, it may not be right for me.  He gave me some examples.

I hadn't been sleeping well at night - was waking up at least every 2 hours and couldn't go back to sleep for sometimes over an hour.  I would try to drink water, but water wasn't helping. I was constantly in the bathroom. When I came home today I guess I rebelled, I had some brown rice pasta and non compliant cheese in the freezer.  I cooked it.  Within 30 minutes I had a full bowel movement (my first in 31 days).

Oh well - I gave it my whole-hearted try.
Posted by: focused, Friday, February 1, 2008, 1:14am; Reply: 54
Quoted from TypeOSecretor
I have no idea whether there are detox symptoms, chemical imbalances or changes in genetics.  All I know was I was at the doctors today - for other reasons - and mentioned the problems I was having on genotype. Constant pain in the stomach area or above - not reflux.  The doctor asked me how my bowel movements were.  I said I hadn't really had a good movement since I started genotype one month ago.  They were generally quite shallow.  He told me my digestive system was rebelling against the diet.  

About one week ago, I wanted to throw up every time I tried to eat something - I really didn't want to eat anything anymore.  I was forcing myself to eat.  There were 3 times I thought I was going to die in the night the pains were so severe and affected many parts of my body.  I was constantly out of my body and the pain was quite severe.  I was dizzy quite often and was afraid of falling down.  The doctor said detox symptoms should only last a couple of weeks.  He told me if I wanted to continue genotype, I could do it for one more month, but should drop it if my symptoms did not get better. He said no matter how valid the theory, it may not be right for me.  He gave me some examples.

I hadn't been sleeping well at night - was waking up at least every 2 hours and couldn't go back to sleep for sometimes over an hour.  I would try to drink water, but water wasn't helping. I was constantly in the bathroom. When I came home today I guess I rebelled, I had some brown rice pasta and non compliant cheese in the freezer.  I cooked it.  Within 30 minutes I had a full bowel movement (my first in 31 days).

Oh well - I gave it my whole-hearted try.


Are you sure you were on the correct genotype diet? Your signature seems to suggest you are not sure. I was on the Explorer diet for a while because of the finger length calculations but I am a Gatherer and it has made all the difference.

Posted by: 2330 (Guest), Friday, February 1, 2008, 1:29am; Reply: 55
Quoted from focused
I didn't think I had any detox going on until I read the posts about colds with coughing, Wah-lah!! I experienced the same symptoms but never attributed it to a change in diet. This is indeed a good thread.


You can say that again. This entire site is wonderful!
Posted by: 2330 (Guest), Friday, February 1, 2008, 1:47am; Reply: 56
Quoted from TypeOSecretor
I have no idea whether there are detox symptoms, chemical imbalances or changes in genetics.  All I know was I was at the doctors today - for other reasons - and mentioned the problems I was having on genotype. Constant pain in the stomach area or above - not reflux.  The doctor asked me how my bowel movements were.  I said I hadn't really had a good movement since I started genotype one month ago.  They were generally quite shallow.  He told me my digestive system was rebelling against the diet.  

About one week ago, I wanted to throw up every time I tried to eat something - I really didn't want to eat anything anymore.  I was forcing myself to eat.  There were 3 times I thought I was going to die in the night the pains were so severe and affected many parts of my body.  I was constantly out of my body and the pain was quite severe.  I was dizzy quite often and was afraid of falling down.  The doctor said detox symptoms should only last a couple of weeks.  He told me if I wanted to continue genotype, I could do it for one more month, but should drop it if my symptoms did not get better. He said no matter how valid the theory, it may not be right for me.  He gave me some examples.

I hadn't been sleeping well at night - was waking up at least every 2 hours and couldn't go back to sleep for sometimes over an hour.  I would try to drink water, but water wasn't helping. I was constantly in the bathroom. When I came home today I guess I rebelled, I had some brown rice pasta and non compliant cheese in the freezer.  I cooked it.  Within 30 minutes I had a full bowel movement (my first in 31 days).

Oh well - I gave it my whole-hearted try.


If I were you, I would give it one more try. Maybe it took a lot of bulk to clean you out. It is not as if the foods are poison that are on any of these diets. Most of us could live a pretty long time eating any of it, although we might be reacting to foods because of allergies, etc., and not feel very well. Add one food at a time and just take it easy.  The rewards are just too great not to at least try once more. It felt as if everything in my body was rebelling against something that I just couldn't figure out. I have been on strenuous diets in the past for health problems that caused very similar reactions, but I stuck it out and got wonderful results. This helped me press on with this diet. I also went through a phase of not wanting to eat. I actually felt better if I didn't. Ha, maybe a short fast beforehand would improve this diet! There is no doubt you had one humdinger of a detox. I'm wondering how you feel now and what foods are appealing to you. I think we can all agree that we are "fearfully and wonderfully made!"
Posted by: Lola, Friday, February 1, 2008, 1:56am; Reply: 57
  
Quoted Text
TypeOSecretor Probable Gatherer

you mean you are not yet sure what gt you are??

definitely measure right and make sure you are following the right diet, instead of giving it up..... ::)
Posted by: Curious, Friday, February 1, 2008, 6:47am; Reply: 58
Quoted from TypeOSecretor
I have no idea whether there are detox symptoms, chemical imbalances or changes in genetics.  All I know was I was at the doctors today - for other reasons - and mentioned the problems I was having on genotype. Constant pain in the stomach area or above - not reflux.  The doctor asked me how my bowel movements were.  I said I hadn't really had a good movement since I started genotype one month ago.  They were generally quite shallow.  He told me my digestive system was rebelling against the diet.  

About one week ago, I wanted to throw up every time I tried to eat something - I really didn't want to eat anything anymore.  I was forcing myself to eat.  There were 3 times I thought I was going to die in the night the pains were so severe and affected many parts of my body.  I was constantly out of my body and the pain was quite severe.  I was dizzy quite often and was afraid of falling down.  The doctor said detox symptoms should only last a couple of weeks.  He told me if I wanted to continue genotype, I could do it for one more month, but should drop it if my symptoms did not get better. He said no matter how valid the theory, it may not be right for me.  He gave me some examples.

I hadn't been sleeping well at night - was waking up at least every 2 hours and couldn't go back to sleep for sometimes over an hour.  I would try to drink water, but water wasn't helping. I was constantly in the bathroom. When I came home today I guess I rebelled, I had some brown rice pasta and non compliant cheese in the freezer.  I cooked it.  Within 30 minutes I had a full bowel movement (my first in 31 days).

Oh well - I gave it my whole-hearted try.


I would stop the Genotype diet immediately if I were you.
I tried the Gatherer diet for about 10 days and had a strong increase in my backpain. I checked with my doctor and he attributed it to the inflammatory foods I was eating (e.g. quark, grapefruits). I stopped the Genotype and my pain level is decreasing.
You body knows what is good or not good for you - you just need to listen to it.
Posted by: 2330 (Guest), Friday, February 1, 2008, 3:43pm; Reply: 59
Quoted from Curious


I would stop the Genotype diet immediately if I were you.
I tried the Gatherer diet for about 10 days and had a strong increase in my backpain. I checked with my doctor and he attributed it to the inflammatory foods I was eating (e.g. quark, grapefruits). I stopped the Genotype and my pain level is decreasing.
You body knows what is good or not good for you - you just need to listen to it.


If I had been you, I would have stopped the "inflammatory foods" immediately and carried on with the diet as usual. Makes all the sense in the world. For myself, I would be practically crippled in a few days if I tried to eat grapefruit. I have tried it numerous times and had the same result. I just simply happen to be one of those people who cannot eat grapefruit. The same goes for pineapple. I love raw pineapple, but it is not for me. As for the dairy products, there are few on the market that are safe for me to eat. The yogurt is not actually cultured or if it is, they add ordinary milk after the culturing process for some strange, unknown reason. Cottage cheese is not completely cultured - ordinary milk and\or cream are added. These are fairly simple things to understand and remedy - I can make my own. It is NOT some lack or fault of the GTD. And there are plenty of other foods available to eat that can make the difference between feeling just okaaaay and feeling absolutely wonderful!!!!!  (smile)
Posted by: Curious, Saturday, February 2, 2008, 1:57am; Reply: 60
Quoted from 2330
If I had been you, I would have stopped the "inflammatory foods" immediately and carried on with the diet as usual.

Spring, I agree with you. Only at the time I did not know which foods cause inflammation and which ones do not. It is only through quite a bit of research and the advise of my doctor that I found out about all the inflammatory foods I was eating.
I guess I just accepted the idea that the Gatherer diet will be good for me. It certainly taught me a lesson, namely to ALWAYS listen to my own body, rather than a book or a website. 8)

Posted by: Lisalea, Saturday, February 2, 2008, 4:44am; Reply: 61
I was wondering about arborio rice ??
Short-grain white rice of Northern Italy used for risotto ... cooks up creamy and is so delicious !!
I take it to be ok ?
Thanks folks  :K) ;D ;) :)
Posted by: TJ, Saturday, February 2, 2008, 6:30am; Reply: 62
What are these "inflammatory foods"?  I'm seeing this idea on the forums used in contexts that suggest certain foods are inflammatory for all types.  Is this true?  If so, what are they?  Diary and nightshades maybe?

Edit: moved the part of the post about BTD/GTD mixing to another thread
Posted by: 521 (Guest), Saturday, February 2, 2008, 7:07am; Reply: 63
Quoted Text
Brenda Watson....
is she the same Dr Watson?
http://www.dadamo.com/media/radio1.htm


No, Lola, that's Debra Watson who does that radio show.  But I'd never seen that link before... Thanks for posting it.
Posted by: Lola, Saturday, February 2, 2008, 7:11am; Reply: 64
thank you Ron for clearing that up! :)
Posted by: 2330 (Guest), Saturday, February 2, 2008, 3:39pm; Reply: 65
Quoted from Curious

Spring, I agree with you. Only at the time I did not know which foods cause inflammation and which ones do not. It is only through quite a bit of research and the advise of my doctor that I found out about all the inflammatory foods I was eating.
I guess I just accepted the idea that the Gatherer diet will be good for me. It certainly taught me a lesson, namely to ALWAYS listen to my own body, rather than a book or a website. 8)


Sorry, Curious, I was meaning after you saw your doctor. I guess I start trying to connect food to my health problems as soon as they start showing up and begin to notice how I feel after I eat different foods. Of course, with me, most of the time the problem starts right off the bat. In about twenty minutes I can be hurting from the soles of my feet upward if I eat something inflammatory. Of course, now that I have been on this diet and found out how it feels not to have a stomach ache, I notice the pain there more readily. I love the way this diet makes me feel!!!(smile) Minus the foods that are known problems for me.
Posted by: 1323 (Guest), Saturday, February 2, 2008, 4:04pm; Reply: 66
Quoted from TJ
What are these "inflammatory foods"?  I'm seeing this idea on the forums used in contexts that suggest certain foods are inflammatory for all types.  Is this true?  If so, what are they?  Diary and nightshades maybe?


I'd like to know this as well!

Posted by: Chloe, Saturday, February 2, 2008, 4:43pm; Reply: 67
Quoted from 1323


I'd like to know this as well!



According to Dr. Perricone, these are pro-inflammatory foods.

"Stay away from pro-inflammatory foods, which accelerate the aging process. A simple rule of thumb is to consider the following: If it contains flour, and/or sugar or other sweetener, it will be pro-inflammatory. Sugary, starchy foods are poor choices and will not only pack on excess pounds, they will make you look older than your years."
Bagels
Breads, rolls, baked goods
Candy
Cake
Cookies
Cereals (except old fashioned oatmeal)
Cornstarch
Corn bread, corn muffins
Corn syrup
Crackers
Croissants
Doughnuts
Egg rolls
Fast food
French Fries
Fruit juiceŚchoose the fruit instead
Fried foods
Flour
Granola
Hard cheese (except for feta and grating cheeses, such as Romano and Parmesan)
Honey
Hot dogs
Ice cream, frozen yogurt, Italian ices
Jams, jellies and preserves
Margarine
Molasses
Muffins
Noodles
Pancakes
Pastry
Pie
Pita bread
Pizza
Pasta
Popcorn
Potatoes
Pudding
Relish
Rice
Sherbet
Shortening
Snack foods, including: potato chips, pretzels, corn chips, rice and corn cakes, etc.
Soda
Sugar
Tacos
Tortillas
Waffles

Posted by: 1323 (Guest), Saturday, February 2, 2008, 5:09pm; Reply: 68
So... tomatoes and peppers?
Posted by: angel, Saturday, February 2, 2008, 6:48pm; Reply: 69
Don't know if this is contributing to detox. My father collapsed Christmas eve and I have been dealing with all of the issues. We have been lucky as he has come to a 80 percent recovery and will be able to come again next week. He is in a state that I will be watching him more than anything. Last week I had to pull my number two out of school except an art and computer class and begin to home school him again to shore up his education gaps. Tons of stress and my husband is on the the go with the military.

I have been experiencing many of the symptoms mentioned. But honestly I've had some spelt which I have been able to tolerate in very small smounts (a slice of homemade pizza). But for the most part I ahve tried to limit myself to the stuff I am supposed to. The Farmers cheese I got at Wild Oats was more crumbly. I gave up on cottage cheese, the added cream and corn syrup. I have not slept good since around the week of JAN 13th, we went on vacation and I did not sleep at all and haven't since. Now it makes since. I like some other get up all hours of the night to relieve myself. I keep a glass of water next to the bed because of great thirst, I can'r seem to drink enough. In the past two weeks it feels like every joint of my body hurts and occassial headache too. But then again since december I have replaced all of my silver fillings with white composite fillings. I started the Gatherer diet just after christmas. Lost two pounds initially in 2 days. Now I am up to 117 I've gained 4 pounds. Maybe I should ahe some one remeasure again, but The measures-Long torso, long upper leg, Long index fingers, O+ Secretor-I am a gatherer. Oh I almost forgot my sinuses are just going crazy (4 days)and I have had diarhea (for two days).

Any suggestions for coping or faster clean out. No Sauna, just a really hot tub of water and shower, I use them to sweat in before bed. I have been trying to exercise, but there are days I am so exhausted I can't. I am lucky to get daily business done.

thanks, Angel
Posted by: Chloe, Saturday, February 2, 2008, 6:59pm; Reply: 70
Quoted from angel
Don't know if this is contributing to detox. My father collapsed Christmas eve and I have been dealing with all of the issues. We have been lucky as he has come to a 80 percent recovery and will be able to come again next week. He is in a state that I will be watching him more than anything. Last week I had to pull my number two out of school except an art and computer class and begin to home school him again to shore up his education gaps. Tons of stress and my husband is on the the go with the military.

I have been experiencing many of the symptoms mentioned. But honestly I've had some spelt which I have been able to tolerate in very small smounts (a slice of homemade pizza). But for the most part I ahve tried to limit myself to the stuff I am supposed to. The Farmers cheese I got at Wild Oats was more crumbly. I gave up on cottage cheese, the added cream and corn syrup. I have not slept good since around the week of JAN 13th, we went on vacation and I did not sleep at all and haven't since. Now it makes since. I like some other get up all hours of the night to relieve myself. I keep a glass of water next to the bed because of great thirst, I can'r seem to drink enough. In the past two weeks it feels like every joint of my body hurts and occassial headache too. But then again since december I have replaced all of my silver fillings with white composite fillings. I started the Gatherer diet just after christmas. Lost two pounds initially in 2 days. Now I am up to 117 I've gained 4 pounds. Maybe I should ahe some one remeasure again, but The measures-Long torso, long upper leg, Long index fingers, O+ Secretor-I am a gatherer. Oh I almost forgot my sinuses are just going crazy (4 days)and I have had diarhea (for two days).

Any suggestions for coping or faster clean out. No Sauna, just a really hot tub of water and shower, I use them to sweat in before bed. I have been trying to exercise, but there are days I am so exhausted I can't. I am lucky to get daily business done.

thanks, Angel


Sorry about your dad. I hope he will be okay.  You sound like you're overly stressed out. Are you getting exercise?  Drinking enough water?  Maybe check out the BT Encyclopedia for adrenal issues if you have the book. And maybe this isn't a good time to do any major changes with diet until your life calms down.  I had to go at this  diet change at snail's pace, adding one new food every few days or longer or else I felt overwhelmed by the dietary challenge this placed on my elimination organs.  Dietary changes can be stressful to the whole body as
many of us wound up with upper respiratory issues when we switched from the BTD to the
GTD.  So whether you're having detox issues or just general "life issues", if I were you, I'd
take this very slowly.  Don't try to make too many changes all at once.

Do you have any way to test your saliva?  Ph paper. I find that green drinks, which are alkalizing are helpful for me..but of course, you're not my blood type or genotype.  I still think getting alkalized is good for detoxing. A lot of times, grains are too acidic for me and if
I eat any, I have to make sure that I eat twice as many vegetables to get myself alkalized.



Posted by: Chloe, Saturday, February 2, 2008, 7:04pm; Reply: 71
Quoted from 1323
So... tomatoes and peppers?


this might explain nightshade foods

http://www.noarthritis.com/research.htm

Posted by: Curious, Sunday, February 3, 2008, 2:05am; Reply: 72
Quoted from TJ
What are these "inflammatory foods"?

There is a book by Neal Bernard called "Foods that fight pain". You can probably get it from the library. He talks about inflammatory foods for different aliments, e.g. back pain, migrane, fibromyalgia, menstrual pain, cancer pain, diabetes, kidney stones etc.
For example, according to Bernard, the major arthritis triggers are: Dairy products, corn, meats, wheat, oats, rye, eggs, citrus fruits, potatoes, tomatoes, nuts and coffee.
I find that avoiding these foods has helped my backpain quite a bit, in particular after it got really bad when I followed the GTD (I have been off these foods for about a week).

Posted by: Ribbit, Sunday, February 3, 2008, 2:19am; Reply: 73
Well, I'll add my own symptoms to the list of everybody else's complaints.  I'm also in the bathroom several times a night, only since being on the GTD.  My legs are in nearly constant pain.  My calf muscles and shins ache, and I can't seem to get my legs warm.  I've had two "crashes" where I had to just go to bed and make my husband take care of the children.  I couldn't even sit up.  My stomach's been hurting mildly but constantly (I contribute that to the milk in the cottage cheese--I'll start making my own).  I had a great bowel movement the first day of the diet but it's been scant since.  >:(  My eyesight has been extra blurry.  I'm hoping all this is milk related and will go away as soon as I get it out of my system.
Posted by: angel, Sunday, February 3, 2008, 2:23am; Reply: 74
My adrenals have been shot for about a year. Started to heal then recent events have sent them back into shock. I drink salt and lemon water. I am avoiding the foods and taking the supplements recommended in the book adrenal fatigue: 21st century illness. I will hopefully rebuild. I am tempering recommendations with R4YT principles too. I ahve some supps I am using.
Posted by: Ribbit, Sunday, February 3, 2008, 2:36am; Reply: 75
I've also been under an odd mixture of stress and elation, back and forth for a few weeks.  Might have something to do with the way I feel.
Posted by: Curious, Sunday, February 3, 2008, 6:50am; Reply: 76
Quoted from 2330
Sorry, Curious, I was meaning after you saw your doctor. I guess I start trying to connect food to my health problems as soon as they start showing up and begin to notice how I feel after I eat different foods. Of course, with me, most of the time the problem starts right off the bat. In about twenty minutes I can be hurting from the soles of my feet upward if I eat something inflammatory.

Spring, yes, that is exactly what I did. I stopped all the inflammatory foods after I had talked with my doctor. My pain is beginning to decrease since I have been off the GTD.

Posted by: Lola, Sunday, February 3, 2008, 7:25am; Reply: 77
wonder why all those foods you mention are avoids!!(think){hint}
in BT, GT diet, I mean...depending on individuality.....
even rice is a black dot for gatherers.....except basmati.....
Dr D has given us all the clues......all we need to do is apply these according to our individualized needs.

not to mention the health series books, which are even more detail oriented!

and shortly his GTD swami......
we are the 'avant guard' of 'nutrigenomics' no doubt about it!
thank you Dr!
Posted by: Lola, Sunday, February 3, 2008, 7:34am; Reply: 78
Quoted Text
according to Bernard, the major arthritis triggers are: Dairy products, corn, meats, wheat, oats, rye, eggs, citrus fruits, potatoes, tomatoes, nuts and coffee.

have you not opened the arthritis book of the health series, and checked the O nonnie recommendations yet?
Posted by: Curious, Sunday, February 3, 2008, 7:46am; Reply: 79
Quoted from Lola
wonder why all those foods you mention are avoids
Neal Barnard quotes lots of research in his book. One which I found particularly interesting is by Kauppila, Can low-back pain be due to lumbar-artery disease, Lancet 1995. A team of researchers in Helsinki (Finnland) conducted autopsies on people who had died of different causes unrelated to back pain. They examined the condition of their spines and the arteries that led to the spine. They found that in people with a history of back pain, two arteries (on average) to the lower back were completely blocked. People who had not reported back pain had fewer blockages. He argues that the blockage prevented nutrients to reaching the disks and the disks started to degenerate. Blocked arteries often are the result of too much cholesterol.
Some of the foods which he mentions as needing to be avoided are likely to raise cholesterol, others - according to his research - can trigger reactions in people with pain.
I only can argue from my own experience: I went on the GTD and my backpain increased considerably. I stopped it and my backpain slowly decreases.
When I was on BTD, my pain decreased initially, but then stayed without any improvement.
That means for me, I need to look around to see whether there is something else that can help me (GTD clearly did not).
Posted by: Lola, Sunday, February 3, 2008, 7:54am; Reply: 80
Quoted Text
I need to look around to see whether there is something else that can help me (GTD clearly did not).

at least you did learn an important piece of the puzzle in regards to your physiological individuality, which is your unique secretor status!
Posted by: TJ, Sunday, February 3, 2008, 2:56pm; Reply: 81
Angel, I am rebuilding my adrenals right now too.  I found very helpful information in a book called Adrenal Fatigue: The 21st Century Stress Syndrome by James L. Wilson.  I haven't even finished reading it, but I've been steadily regaining my strength/energy.  Also, I've read that getting those fillings replaced can release a lot of mercury into your body at once (you probably already know that, but just in case you didn't, there it is!)

Ribbit, I have decided to go back to a modified version of the BTD because of my increased aches.  Maybe you should too?  Mine looks like this: if it's a BTD avoid, it's an avoid for me.  If it's a GTD toxin, I will probably avoid it, too, but maybe less strictly.  If it's a BTD beneficial or a GTD superfood (and doesn't already show up in the avoid or toxin list), it's a beneficial on my list!
Posted by: Ribbit, Sunday, February 3, 2008, 9:33pm; Reply: 82
*sigh*  But there's some pretty big changes from the A nonnie diet to the Warrior diet.  I wouldn't know where to start.  On another thread somebody said they've evened out and felt better after being on the diet several weeks.  Maybe I'll wait it out a few months and then see.
Posted by: 260 (Guest), Thursday, February 7, 2008, 3:52am; Reply: 83
has anyone been experiencing brain fog..I have had an increase and its the worst feeling in the world! i feel like I'm on drugs or literally drunk-awful...I wonder if its a detox symptoms
Posted by: Jenny, Thursday, February 7, 2008, 4:19am; Reply: 84
Quoted from Ribbit
*sigh*  But there's some pretty big changes from the A nonnie diet to the Warrior diet.  I wouldn't know where to start.  On another thread somebody said they've evened out and felt better after being on the diet several weeks.  Maybe I'll wait it out a few months and then see.


The implication of the black dot (and all the avoids) is that it takes 3-6 months to re-educate the genes, so it may be unavoidable that some people will have to stick to the GTD for quite a long time, and with some difficulty, to ultimately see the rewards. I am one of the lucky ones who is not having detox problems, so I know it is easy for me to appear blase, but I am trying to empathize with those not in my easy boat. Good luck all, and keep trying if you choose to. :)

Posted by: Henriette Bsec, Thursday, February 7, 2008, 10:25am; Reply: 85
Quoted from 260
has anyone been experiencing brain fog..I have had an increase and its the worst feeling in the world! i feel like I'm on drugs or literally drunk-awful...I wonder if its a detox symptoms


I don┤t know if it is a detox - but I felt like that( again as well as blood sugar swings and upset tummy until I added a few of my old B friends back..
I┤m rethinking how I want to do GTD right now...
Posted by: Andrea AWsec, Thursday, February 7, 2008, 1:23pm; Reply: 86
Just a thought, are you looking at the portions and trying to eat them? I think the portions are very important to the GT diet.
Posted by: Henriette Bsec, Thursday, February 7, 2008, 4:32pm; Reply: 87
Dottie - if it is me you are asking  :D
then - yes I did try to follow the portions... but I got too many grains and juice on the GTD menu and too little protein to keep me happy
after all we are different persons- I need more protein than a average woman- being heavier and more active.
Posted by: Andrea AWsec, Thursday, February 7, 2008, 4:37pm; Reply: 88
Nay just asking in general. I think the portions are really hard to keep. The live food one is 1 cup of veggies  at least 4-5 cups per day. Wow, that is alot of live food.
Posted by: Henriette Bsec, Thursday, February 7, 2008, 4:39pm; Reply: 89
Quoted from Andrea AWsec
Nay just asking in general. I think the portions are really hard to keep. The live food one is 1 cup of veggies  at least 4-5 cups per day. Wow, that is alot of live food.


ok ;)
Well I don┤t find it that hard to get the veggies
since I eat so little grain from monday to friday I try to eat grain - or a max of 1 serving - so I just eat veggies instead. :D
Posted by: Jenny, Thursday, February 7, 2008, 8:39pm; Reply: 90
Quoted from Henriette Bsec


ok ;)
Well I don┤t find it that hard to get the veggies
since I eat so little grain from monday to friday I try to eat grain - or a max of 1 serving - so I just eat veggies instead. :D

Me too. what it takes is to be sure to have (say) a big salad for lunch, and cooked vegs for dinner. 8)

Posted by: angel, Thursday, February 7, 2008, 11:15pm; Reply: 91
Drive55-that is the book I was refering too.

My current problem is the detox reaction I am having between diet and filling removal. I have a horrid brain fog when I don't eat at regular times I get plain sick. sometimes getting a little contamination-the reaction is quite awful. But is weight gain (5-7 lbs worth )supposed to be one of those detox reactions? Would this be my body expelling those xenobiotics and causing swelling and pain.

I am feeling somewhat tired and cranky. Sleep is elusive, lots of sleep wake cycles. I want to feel better not like I got hit by a truck I am hoping that my reactions will get milder as time goes by. My wrists have not been hurting as bed as they were previously. Just flashes here an there.

the frustrating thing is finding the items I can have in the local stores not likely very rarely. I have to drive to Ogden or Salt Lake or I am going to have to order the mushroom kit and grow my own
Posted by: 260 (Guest), Friday, February 8, 2008, 1:19am; Reply: 92
Quoted from angel
Drive55-that is the book I was refering too.

My current problem is the detox reaction I am having between diet and filling removal. I have a horrid brain fog when I don't eat at regular times I get plain sick. sometimes getting a little contamination-the reaction is quite awful. But is weight gain (5-7 lbs worth )supposed to be one of those detox reactions? Would this be my body expelling those xenobiotics and causing swelling and pain.

I am feeling somewhat tired and cranky. Sleep is elusive, lots of sleep wake cycles. I want to feel better not like I got hit by a truck I am hoping that my reactions will get milder as time goes by. My wrists have not been hurting as bed as they were previously. Just flashes here an there.

the frustrating thing is finding the items I can have in the local stores not likely very rarely. I have to drive to Ogden or Salt Lake or I am going to have to order the mushroom kit and grow my own


I'm having horrible brain fog too!!!!!
Posted by: angel, Friday, February 8, 2008, 5:49am; Reply: 93
worse thing about right now this week is that. I hope I retain what training I went through yesterday to be a website administrator for the military. I am having trouble concentrating and sleeping.

I am currently involved in scouts, military spouse and family education with outreach programs, a women's shooting group, nothing like shooting paper and hitting the bullseye to make you feel better or being able to teach your own kids to shoot, imparticular my daughter. Mostly we shoot 22 cal and air rifle.

With all this going on My father is being turned over ot me this weekend to come home and I am feeling a bit overwhelmed, because of the distance I ahve to go to find those things I can eat. I think I will take the suggestion in another thread and rinse my cottage cheese. I found acceptable ricotta and farmers cheese. Although I wish someone would just drop some easy really recipes in my lap. As soon as I find a dairy thermometer I will try making cottage cheese.
Sorry about my moan or whine however you want to call it. I just don't like the way I feel, But I realize (correct if I am wrong) that I am detoxing and going through everything in reverse of what happened to me over the past 36-37 years as far as my health.

thank you for listening.  
Posted by: Henriette Bsec, Friday, February 8, 2008, 8:30am; Reply: 94
It is OK to moan sometimes  :K)
Posted by: zola, Monday, February 11, 2008, 7:29pm; Reply: 95
Earlier in this post, someone said how the eyes mirror what is going on in the liver.

After taking the Explorer liver supplements, I have to agree.

They clear up my eyes and I have hardly any allergy discharge.

I went without the supplements for one day - and it was obvious my liver needed them.

They have boosted my metabolism fore sure. I've lost 10 lbs. in 5 weeks  - which is a personal record. I love not being so hungry as well. My blood sugar dips are becoming less frequent too.

Anyone considering making the investment in the supplements should know - I find them the most worthwhile of any of the many supplements I've taken.
Posted by: 2575 (Guest), Tuesday, February 19, 2008, 11:16pm; Reply: 96
i THINK i AM HAVING A REACTION TO MUSHROOMS!  i HAVE EATEN THEM THREE TIMES AND THE FOLLOWING DAY i HAVE A TERRIBLE HEADACHE AND BACKACHE- FLU LIKE SYMPTOMS WITH NO FEVER!  i JUST CAME FROM THE DOCTOR AND HE CULTURED ME FOR FLU AND KIDNEY INFECTION- ALL NEGATIVE!  i ALSO HAVE THE BRAIN FOG AND NO ENERGY.  
Posted by: Andrea AWsec, Tuesday, February 19, 2008, 11:27pm; Reply: 97
Typing in all caps is like yelling. Not sure that was your intention.
How did he culture you for a urine infection in the office?
Posted by: 2575 (Guest), Tuesday, February 19, 2008, 11:32pm; Reply: 98
pardon the all caps!  Kids were on the computer.  He did a 'dip stick" in his office- is sending off to lab to culture for a few days.
Posted by: TJ, Wednesday, February 20, 2008, 11:50am; Reply: 99
Quoted from 2575
pardon the all caps!  Kids were on the computer.


Lol, yelling to be heard over the kids! ;)
Posted by: Andrea AWsec, Wednesday, February 20, 2008, 1:48pm; Reply: 100
Are mushrooms the only food that you have added to your diet?
What type of mushrooms were they?
Posted by: 2575 (Guest), Wednesday, February 20, 2008, 2:54pm; Reply: 101
maitake mushrooms.  I have added cottage cheese,okra,ginsing tea,pumpkin seeds- thats it.
Posted by: 1323 (Guest), Thursday, March 20, 2008, 3:26am; Reply: 102
Well after about 40 years of eating c**p foods (standard American welfare diet as a child); extreme dieting and binging and on and on and on... I cannot expect my brain chemistry to heal overnight!  Geeeezzz I sure would like to feel 100% after almost 4 weeks but the fact is that I don't!  What I do feel is extremely grounded more everyday and I'm able to choose my healthy Hunter foods if I feel like eating more than moderate instead of running out for junk.  

After reading that article in Psychology Today that I posted on the Food Addiction thread, I just cannot justify trying to make myself feel better by indulging in foods that will cause my brain chemistry to spirl out again.  

What this diet 'is' doing for me at this point is keeping me steady when it comes to handling my brain trying to re-adjust itself.  I expect this may take some time... maybe a few months before I wake up without brain fog.

And according to that article (and more importantly my own experience), one bite of sugar will throw me out again... so I cannot justify throwing all the work I'm doing down the toilet for some desperate scoop of ice cream or 1/2 loaf of French bread or 5 candy bars... or pizza or fries... or whatever it ends of being.

So what I'm having after almost a month of really being very compliant is BRAIN DETOX!!!

Anybody else?  sigh.
Posted by: 2330 (Guest), Thursday, March 20, 2008, 5:25am; Reply: 103
Funkymuse, I used to have frozen yogurt every day. I had no idea that the stuff was about as far removed from real cultured yogurt as day is from night.  Anyway, now when I have some remote thought about how good something like that would taste, I have real vanilla yogurt in the fridge into which I put whatever fresh fruit is handy - right now it is strawberries - and enjoy it to the fullest. And it feels so good in my stomach! I don't eat a whole lot of this yogurt at a time - maybe 3 ounces, but it does the trick.

Another thing I have now to nibble on in the AM if I have a need for more protein is this paneer/farmer's cheese. I love it! A walnut or two along with it makes it even better.

I wore a favorite skirt tonight when I went out that I haven't been able to wear in a long time, and that really gave me a lift too. My jackets feel soooo much more comfortable.

I'm sure I went through some sort of brain detox after I was on the diet about a month or less. I thought it was the diet driving me crazy at first, but I meant to keep going with it whatever it was.

Thank goodness you found the right article to read at just the right time to give you the boost that you needed. (smile)

Hopefully, the brain fog will lift soon and you will feel wonderful, wonderful!  ;D
Posted by: Lola, Thursday, March 20, 2008, 6:02am; Reply: 104
great results both!
keep up the good work!
Posted by: 815 (Guest), Thursday, March 20, 2008, 3:17pm; Reply: 105
Quoted from Andrea AWsec

I just had lasik surgery so the bloodshot eyes are a constant right now.
  


Hey Dottie, I had lasik at 44. How do you like it? I went into Manahattan to have it done because I didn't trust the local eye docs here in Jersey.  I love being able to see without glasses. A big perk is not having to use reading glasses. At my age I should be using them but I don't need them (only the teeny tiny print on vitamin bottles)



Posted by: 1323 (Guest), Monday, March 24, 2008, 3:21am; Reply: 106
Well I finally had a clear day yesterday!  No brain fog... no horrid dark depression.  Not completely bright eyed and bushy tailed but much better than I have been for 3 weeks of being pretty darn strict!  

I am officially 4 weeks into the regime and I have had a few black dot items but nothing of any huge substance.  A couple bits of coconut here and there, some cherries, a couple of swallows of coffee during the brain fog desperation, parsley (wow... just realized that was a black dot!); and there and we accidently ate Swordfish not knowing it was a complete avoid!  Hubby got some tummy issues from that!

I also am still weaning myself off of soy milk using Hazelnut milk which has guar gum and carrageenan - both complete avoids.

So I just wanted to report that the brain fog and depression days are hopefully coming to an end as I forge ahead on this eating regime.  I thought it would never end! And having that depression really made me aware of how bad some people must have it.  It makes you not care about anything at all.  It's really something.  
Posted by: Lola, Monday, March 24, 2008, 3:23am; Reply: 107
glad the worst is over! :)
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