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Posted by: C_Sharp, Sunday, January 6, 2008, 5:25pm
On the A nonsecretor diet I relied a lot on chicken for protein. I now need to rely more heavily on vegetable protein sources.

I have hesitated to increase beans and lentils (I alrady consume or so servings a week of these(more if I count green beans), because these create a problem with flatulance for me unless I take food enzymes to improve my digestion.

So I have increased my consumption of nuts, seeds, and nut butters, but I am having problems digesting these.  I think from the fat these products. Besides some distress in the intestine, when I eat these products (or products containing oil) I get a pain on the right side of my abdomen.

I have tried soaking the nuts/seeds but this has not eliminated the problem. I presume that is because the fat is still there.

Should I take lipase or other products to help break down the fat. Are others having this problem?

Any suggestions on how to help an a-nonsecretor digest nuts and seeds better?
Posted by: Lloyd, Sunday, January 6, 2008, 5:44pm; Reply: 1
Quoted from C_Sharp

So I have increased my consumption of nuts, seeds, and nut butters, but I am having problems digesting these.  I think from the fat these products. Besides some distress in the intestine, when I eat these products (or products containing oil) I get a pain on the right side of my abdomen.



That sounds like it could be gallbladder related.

Posted by: jayneeo, Sunday, January 6, 2008, 6:47pm; Reply: 2
I agree with Lloyd....and been there. Reducing fats is the way to go with gallbladder issues....just keep the fats down to a minimum, use egg whites, etc.
Posted by: HigherGround247, Sunday, January 6, 2008, 6:53pm; Reply: 3
sounds like the veggie teins is messing you up. why not switch to live foods or carbohydrates? or vegetables? cooked vegetables are good for the stommach. i agree beans and nuts can be harsh on the stommach
Posted by: C_Sharp, Sunday, January 6, 2008, 7:14pm; Reply: 4
Quoted from HigherGround247
sounds like the veggie teins is messing you up. why not switch to live foods or carbohydrates? or vegetables? cooked vegetables are good for the stommach.


I have increased carbohydrates in line with the Genotype guidelines.

While on the A nonsecretor, I had eliminated most grain, since I felt better without them.

The consumption of carbohydrates in quantity also causes Candida problems for me.

I love vegetables (including the toxins), but I have difficulty consuming enough vegetables to meet my calorie needs.  People who eat with me are often shocked by the quantity of vegetables I consume at a meal(1/2 lab green beans, 1/2 lb of greens, and 6 plate fulls of salad)  
Posted by: Lloyd, Sunday, January 6, 2008, 7:53pm; Reply: 5
I would think that you need to attack the candida issue, especially since dense carbs like grains and legumes will give you more calories/serving. Getting the proper intestinal flora balance and a healthier gut lining will also help digest the fibrous materials. Have you done a check on pancreatic enzymes? That may be out in left field but worth considering.
Posted by: Curious, Monday, January 7, 2008, 1:19am; Reply: 6
Quoted from C_Sharp
I have tried soaking the nuts/seeds but this has not eliminated the problem.

Did you soak them for long enough (e.g. 10-12 hours) and did you throw the soaking water away?
I sometimes have problems digesting nuts, but I never have when I soak them correctly.

Posted by: C_Sharp, Monday, January 7, 2008, 4:40am; Reply: 7
Quoted from Lloyd
Have you done a check on pancreatic enzymes?


I had not even thought about having this done. I did a little reading on the Internet and it seemed like it might be a good idea.

Posted by: C_Sharp, Monday, January 7, 2008, 4:50am; Reply: 8
Quoted from Curious

Did you soak them for long enough (e.g. 10-12 hours) and did you throw the soaking water away?
I sometimes have problems digesting nuts, but I never have when I soak them correctly.



I typically soak things overnight--more like 8 hours instead of 10-12.

I do eat commercial peanut and almond butter that would contain unsoaked nuts. I am not set up to make my own butters.

I may do flax and hemp wrong. I grind unsoaked seeds. I then add water and let the ground seeds absorb the water about 6 hours in the refrigerator. I do not drain any water from the moistened flax and hemp seeds.
Posted by: Schluggell, Monday, January 7, 2008, 8:59am; Reply: 9
Quoted from C_Sharp
I typically soak things overnight--more like 8 hours instead of 10-12...


Yes but do you change the water? is the question from the previous post...Always change the water after the first half hour and again an hour later...Big beans, Soy, and large nuts need to have the water changed several times (esp. Soy, change as much as possible}.

Also try using warm water rather than cold....
Posted by: C_Sharp, Monday, January 7, 2008, 5:14pm; Reply: 10
Quoted from Schluggell


Yes but do you change the water? is the question from the previous post...Always change the water after the first half hour and again an hour later...Big beans, Soy, and large nuts need to have the water changed several times (esp. Soy, change as much as possible}.


The answer is no I do not change the water every few hours.

I will try it, but it means that I have to set an alarm to get up several times during the night.  
Posted by: jayneeo, Monday, January 7, 2008, 5:18pm; Reply: 11
that's a bit much....how about setting them in water in the fridge overnight and in the morning start the water changing till time to start cooking?
Posted by: Curious, Tuesday, January 8, 2008, 3:08am; Reply: 12
I don't change the water several times. Only once in the morning before I use them. I rinse them under clean water until all the 'old' water is gone.
Posted by: Lloyd, Tuesday, January 8, 2008, 3:21am; Reply: 13
I soak overnight, rinse thouroughly and soak for a few more hours, then rinse again.
Posted by: karen, Tuesday, January 8, 2008, 4:09am; Reply: 14
Do you folks use salted water and if so, do you add salt back in after each water change?
Posted by: Lloyd, Tuesday, January 8, 2008, 4:15am; Reply: 15
For seeds and nuts I use a dash of vinegar on the first soak. Everything else plain water.
Posted by: karen, Tuesday, January 8, 2008, 4:24pm; Reply: 16
Thanks Lloyd   I was following the instructions in the book Nourishing Traditions which uses salted water and it didn't mention to change the water.  

I've always had trouble with nuts and seeds so maybe changing the water will help.
Posted by: Mrs T O+, Tuesday, January 8, 2008, 8:54pm; Reply: 17
Wouldn't changing the water lose some/most of the nutrients?
Mrs "T"
Posted by: ABJoe, Tuesday, January 8, 2008, 9:25pm; Reply: 18
Quoted from Mrs T O+
Wouldn't changing the water lose some/most of the nutrients?
Mrs "T"

Usually, soaking does not leach too many nutrients from the legumes or grains...  Cooking leaches more...  Some cookbooks recommend changing water after the cooking is complete as well...  

I guess it depends on what is more important to the individual - getting rid of some component that bothers you or keeping as much of the original nutrient value as possible.
Posted by: karen, Tuesday, January 8, 2008, 10:58pm; Reply: 19
Quoted from ABJoe

  
I guess it depends on what is more important to the individual - getting rid of some component that bothers you or keeping as much of the original nutrient value as possible.


That's an important point, ABJoe.

I think I am going to continue to use salted water but change it a few times.  The book Nourishing Traditions says that "Salt in soaking water activates enzymes that neutralize enzyme inhibitors."  

I don't know if it was on this board or elsewhere that I read salt can get rid of mold on nuts while soaking.  I am very sensitive to mold so I'm foreseeing going through a lot more salt by having to change the water often.  But if it helps it worth it.
Posted by: Ribbit, Tuesday, January 8, 2008, 11:55pm; Reply: 20
I just started soaking my nuts, but they turn very moldy if I don't eat them all within a day or so.  Should I store them in the fridge?  The dr. who told me to soak them said to just air dry them, but didn't say anything about how to store them.
Posted by: Lola, Wednesday, January 9, 2008, 2:35am; Reply: 21
add lemon juice to the water......soak once, during the night preferably. ;)
Posted by: karen, Wednesday, January 9, 2008, 3:08am; Reply: 22
Quoted from Ribbit
I just started soaking my nuts, but they turn very moldy if I don't eat them all within a day or so.  Should I store them in the fridge?  The dr. who told me to soak them said to just air dry them, but didn't say anything about how to store them.


Hi Ribbit,  To prevent them from growing mold you could dry them in the oven as soon as they are finished soaking.  I use a dehydrator but before I had that I used the oven.  After they are completely dry they can be stored in an airtight container away from light.  The one exception is walnut, which should always be refrigerated or frozen (no matter whether it is raw or dried).

In the oven, dry them at temps. no higher than 150*
Pumpkin seeds are small so only need to be dried for about 12 hours or overnight.  Larger nuts like almonds, pecans,walnuts, etc. need 12 to 24 hours and an occasional turn.
Posted by: Curious, Wednesday, January 9, 2008, 4:53am; Reply: 23
I would only soak the amounts of nuts that will be eaten during the next day. However, if I have some leftovers I store them in the fridge for a day.
Posted by: Schluggell, Wednesday, January 9, 2008, 8:07pm; Reply: 24
Quoted from Ribbit
...but they turn very moldy if I don't eat them all within a day or so.  Should I store them in the fridge? ..


You can store them in the fridge - But either way you keep changing the water and they won't go mouldy but they will sprout eventually. So it is better to only soak enough for the day, soak another batch following day, etc..

Posted by: Ribbit, Friday, January 11, 2008, 2:49pm; Reply: 25
So I can bake them at under 150 and still retain the beneficial properties of eating raw nuts?  I like the soaked nuts better.  They're sweet.  My children won't touch them.  I guess they like the crunch of raw.
Posted by: karen, Friday, January 11, 2008, 3:58pm; Reply: 26
Quoted from Ribbit
So I can bake them at under 150 and still retain the beneficial properties of eating raw nuts?  I like the soaked nuts better.  They're sweet.  My children won't touch them.  I guess they like the crunch of raw.


Yes, as long as the heat stays under 150, the good fats aren't damaged.  
Posted by: Possum, Friday, April 20, 2012, 4:59am; Reply: 27
Quoted from Schluggell
Always change the water after the first half hour and again an hour later...Big beans, Soy, and large nuts need to have the water changed several times (esp. Soy, change as much as possible}. Also try using warm water rather than cold....
What would happen re the phytic acid, if you had soaked split peas & then just cooked them in the same water? What is the difference between doing that & not soaking them, regarding the release of phytic acid into your system? Would it release more easily?

Posted by: Possum, Friday, April 20, 2012, 5:03am; Reply: 28
Quoted from C_Sharp
I may do flax and hemp wrong. I grind unsoaked seeds. I then add water and let the ground seeds absorb the water about 6 hours in the refrigerator. I do not drain any water from the moistened flax and hemp seeds.
Any more recent thoughts on this C#? I have been wondering how to deal with flax seeds & almonds re soaking... :-/ Can't really grind after soaking can you ??) And if you grind almonds first & then soak, you are pouring away almond milk... :-/

Posted by: Lola, Friday, April 20, 2012, 5:13am; Reply: 29
flax and chia I enjoy adding those simply ground, raw and dry to my smoothies.......


when I ve soaked flax and chia overnight in lemon juice and water, has been to make dehydrated crackers out of the goo......delicious and crunchy!

Quoted Text
take 2 cups of whole flax seeds and soak them in 4 cups of water in a large bowl for several hours or however long it takes for them to expand into the water. The consistency should be that you can stir them and they will stick together but also spread. Then I mix in about a 1/2 cup of lemon juice, a little salt, spices you like.

Then spread the mixture out on dehydrator trays covered with either teflex sheets or wax paper. Spread them until cracker thickness with a spoon or spatula. Dry at 100 degrees for 2-4 hours and then flip them over and peel off the paper or teflex. They will be a unified flat sheet at this point but not totally dry. Dry them for a few more hours..until crunchy like crackers.
Posted by: Possum, Friday, April 20, 2012, 5:34am; Reply: 30
Thanks Lola ;)
Posted by: Cristina, Friday, April 20, 2012, 6:24am; Reply: 31
I soak all my beans in lemon.  Usually overnight, then rinse and freeze what I am not using that day.  If I want to use them that day, I may give them one more soak for a couple more hours depending on the bean.  I sort of look how they look, how swollen and if it is the type I expect to sprout, that is my signal to give them a final rinse and cook them, slow, cast iron pot (or slow electric ceramic cooker), with fresh bay leaves ....   I throw away that cooking water and then (unless I use them in a salad), I put them through my cold press juicer.  Make patties or sauces with it.

Almonds and walnuts are different.  I soak all my nuts in salted water.  Almonds are ready when they sprout (you will see the little white tip emerging in most of them, provided your almonds are organic).  Walnuts get to a swollen stage, a lot bigger than originally.  I give them a quick rinse and then dehydrate them, overnight, till they are completely dried.  From then on, eat them and store as normal nuts or grind them to make nut flour!  They are very tasty and no digestion problems.

Seeds, like chia, flax and pumpkin I tend to use them raw, as is.  A bit of phytic acid is good for us, help us absorbe something or other.  Too much is not good, stop us from absorbing something or other (experts may tell you what ... I learnt it some time ago, convince myself that is what I should do and then forget the details, or do not get stuck on the details for too long, once I make up my mind).
Posted by: C_Sharp, Friday, April 20, 2012, 6:26am; Reply: 32
Quoted from Possum
Any more recent thoughts on this C#? I have been wondering how to deal with flax seeds & almonds re soaking...  Can't really grind after soaking can you ??) And if you grind almonds first & then soak, you are pouring away almond milk...



I now have a vitamix. So I soak first and let it chop the seeds and nuts as it is blending.
Posted by: Lola, Friday, April 20, 2012, 6:39am; Reply: 33
all glutinous fiber found in these are excellent digestive and detox aids for absorption of nutrients and elimination.....their omega ratios are also perfect
Posted by: Possum, Friday, April 20, 2012, 7:03am; Reply: 34
Thanks Cristina & C#
Quoted from Lola
all glutinous fiber found in these are excellent digestive and detox aids for absorption of nutrients and elimination.....their omega ratios are also perfect
& Lola...Hmm wonder why it is that I got constipated from eating split peas yesterday then?
Posted by: PCUK-Positive, Friday, April 20, 2012, 8:57am; Reply: 35
I would soak those nuts for longer which ones do you eat?

I soak almonds for 24 hours or more i then let them sprout for a day or so ( i also peel them after soaking.. you could also look into putting a bit of lemon juice into the soak water, i don't do it myself but have read about similar ideas that seem to help some people phytic acid or something like that from memory (which is not great lol)it is phytic acid found a saved link

do you sprout the seeds, in which case the soak times are more important and often less. for example quinoa is only 30 mins to 4 hours for sprouting but you can get away with soaking for a lot longer if you do not sprout it.

found a link re phytic acid http://www.westonaprice.org/food-features/living-with-phytic-acid
Posted by: PCUK-Positive, Friday, April 20, 2012, 9:04am; Reply: 36
"Phytic acid is the principal storage form of phosphorus in many plant tissues, especially the bran portion of grains and other seeds. It contains the mineral phosphorus tightly bound in a snowflake-like molecule. In humans and animals with one stomach, the phosphorus is not readily bioavailable. In addition to blocking phosphorus availability, the “arms” of the phytic acid molecule readily bind with other minerals, such as calcium, magnesium, iron and zinc, making them unavailable as well. In this form, the compound is referred to as phytate.
Phytic acid not only grabs on to or chelates important minerals, but also inhibits enzymes that we need to digest our food, including pepsin,1 needed for the breakdown of proteins in the stomach, and amylase,2 needed for the breakdown of starch into sugar. Trypsin, needed for protein digestion in the small intestine, is also inhibited by phytates.3
"
Posted by: Possum, Friday, April 20, 2012, 9:49am; Reply: 37
Hmmm ta...I'm honestly really beginning to think - with all the time it takes to soak & then sprout, or dry them, it would be safer to just avoid nuts for now... ::) I mean, I usually only eat them as a fill in, if I haven't got meat cooked... I seriously reckon I could defrost & cook a steak quicker... :D ;)
Posted by: PCUK-Positive, Friday, April 20, 2012, 10:16am; Reply: 38
It's not too difficult if you get into a routine.
Posted by: PCUK-Positive, Friday, April 20, 2012, 10:18am; Reply: 39
OTHER ANTI-NUTRIENTS
Phytates represent just one of many anti-nutrients in grains, nuts, tubers, seeds and beans. These include oxalates, tannins, trypsin inhibitors, enzyme inhibitors, lectins (hemagglutinins), protease inhibitors, gluten, alpha-amylase inhibitors and alkylresorcinols .
Anti-nutrients exist in these plant foods because they are part of the process of life. The natural world requires them in order to perform many important tasks, including protection against insects, maintaining freshness of seeds for germination, and protection against mold and fungus. In order to consume these foods on a regular basis we must remove the phytates and other anti-nutrients through processing in harmonious ways. Many people in the health field assure us that if something is from nature, then it doesn’t require processing. Phytates act as the seed’s system of preservatives, like the impossible-to-open plastic packaging of many consumer goods. To get to the item we need—namely, phosphorus—we need to unwrap the phytate-phosphorus package.
FIGURE 3: QUINOA PHYTATE REDUCTION34
PROCESS     PHYTATE REDUCTION
Cooked for 25 minutes at 212 degrees F     15-20 percent
Soaked for 12-14 hours at 68 degrees F, then cooked     60-77 percent
Fermented with whey 16-18 hours at 86 degrees F, then cooked     82-88 percent
Soaked 12-14 hours, germinated 30 hours, lacto-fermented 16-18 hours, then cooked at 212 degrees F for 25 minutes     97-98 percent
Posted by: Cristina, Friday, April 20, 2012, 11:18am; Reply: 40
Interesting ... I will try that with Quinoa next time ... Soak (tick), germinate it (tick, but usually for max 12 hrs), lacto-ferment (must try) ,,, the cooking @212F must be in the oven? I usually cook it on top of the stove: toss in ghee, add hot water and simmer for a few minutes ... I should try the oven method next ...
Posted by: Tom Martens, Friday, April 20, 2012, 12:10pm; Reply: 41
So how is your Soy intake?  That should get you plenty of protein. :)
Posted by: Spring, Friday, April 20, 2012, 3:17pm; Reply: 42
Quoted from C_Sharp
On the A nonsecretor diet I relied a lot on chicken for protein. I now need to rely more heavily on vegetable protein sources.

I have hesitated to increase beans and lentils (I alrady consume or so servings a week of these(more if I count green beans), because these create a problem with flatulance for me unless I take food enzymes to improve my digestion.

So I have increased my consumption of nuts, seeds, and nut butters, but I am having problems digesting these.  I think from the fat these products. Besides some distress in the intestine, when I eat these products (or products containing oil) I get a pain on the right side of my abdomen.

I have tried soaking the nuts/seeds but this has not eliminated the problem. I presume that is because the fat is still there.

Should I take lipase or other products to help break down the fat. Are others having this problem?

Any suggestions on how to help an a-nonsecretor digest nuts and seeds better?

It is the weirdest thing, but flax seed oil works wonders for the gallbladder deal. If you have some around, try either taking a capsule of it or a little of the bottled type when you have a problem with nuts or any other fat. It works in about 15 or 20 minutes for me. I don't have a problem very often, but this works every time.
Posted by: cajun, Friday, April 20, 2012, 6:36pm; Reply: 43
I always wondered why everyone wanted to soak nuts, seeds, and beans.
After reading through this thread, I am sooooo glad that I must have a cast iron stomach because I can eat all of my swami nuts, seeds and beans without any problems at all! :)
The only foods that give me a hurt stomach are the 2 worst avoids (for me)..wheat and cow dairy.
Posted by: 14442 (Guest), Saturday, April 21, 2012, 3:52am; Reply: 44
I do well on nuts but not soy.
Posted by: Spring, Saturday, April 21, 2012, 1:57pm; Reply: 45
Quoted from cajun
I always wondered why everyone wanted to soak nuts, seeds, and beans.
After reading through this thread, I am sooooo glad that I must have a cast iron stomach because I can eat all of my swami nuts, seeds and beans without any problems at all! :)
The only foods that give me a hurt stomach are the 2 worst avoids (for me)..wheat and cow dairy.


I must have something going in my favor, too, because going by this thread I should be dead by now from all the peanut butter, peanuts, pecans, walnuts, almonds, many other nuts and a multitude of seeds I have eaten during my lifetime with nary a one soaked, sprouted or any other thing done to them except cooking! Now, beans are another story.....
Posted by: Possum, Saturday, April 21, 2012, 10:37pm; Reply: 46
Quoted from Spring
I must have something going in my favor, too, because going by this thread I should be dead by now from all the peanut butter, peanuts, pecans, walnuts, almonds, many other nuts and a multitude of seeds I have eaten during my lifetime with nary a one soaked, sprouted or any other thing done to them except cooking! Now, beans are another story.....
Same ;) I lived on peanut butter for years...(love it *sigh*  ::))
Posted by: cajun, Saturday, April 21, 2012, 11:04pm; Reply: 47
Ha Ha! Spring, you made me laugh. guess we are the lucky ones, huh?  ;D
There is so much prep and work just to eat this way that I am glad I don't need to do another chore! :) Not really complaining..its all worth it! ;)

Possum, My DH is an O hunter and he loves peanuts.. :-/ I feel guilty sometimes with my peanut butter on a spoon, my special compliant peanut butter cookies, my delicious raw peanuts.....I try not to eat it all in front of him!
Posted by: Possum, Sunday, April 22, 2012, 12:05am; Reply: 48
Quoted from cajun
Possum, My DH is an O hunter and he loves peanuts.. :-/ I feel guilty sometimes with my peanut butter on a spoon, my special compliant peanut butter cookies, my delicious raw peanuts.....I try not to eat it all in front of him!
*sigh* again... :D  Actually it'd be interesting - I may not even like peanut butter nowadays :-/ Never have found a replacement that is quite a good on celery, mind... ;)

Posted by: Spring, Sunday, April 22, 2012, 12:50am; Reply: 49
Yes, yes, I love it on celery too. The next best thing is pimento and cheese. I hated pimento and cheese for my entire life until I was about forty years old. Then, all of a sudden I LOVED it!! So, now, guess what? I can't have it.  :'(  Not with the ingredients I want, anyway!
Posted by: 18545 (Guest), Sunday, April 22, 2012, 12:58am; Reply: 50
At a nearby health food store they have roasted almonds in a grinder.  You put a container underneath it and flip a switch and get almond butter.  I love it on celery and apple slices and
compliant bread and just by the spoonful.  But I have to be careful as my body only allows me to have REASONABLE portions and I have a proclivity to being unreasonable.  :P But it is soooo good.
Posted by: Possum, Sunday, April 22, 2012, 1:13am; Reply: 51
Ooh Spring - I remember a cheese spread that had pimento in it we used to have when I was a teenager ;)

Kibble - yeah almond butter is good too but I still preferred a mix of almond & pnut butter, as the almond butter we used to get was very cloying (if that is the right word)
Love the line "my body only allows me to have REASONABLE portions and I have a proclivity to being unreasonable lol" :D & love your signature line too ;)
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