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Posted by: Peppermint Twist, Thursday, January 3, 2008, 4:19pm
:D

Peeps!

Thar she blew, sitting on the front stoop, covered in oak leaves, when I finally got home last evening!!!!!  A package from Amazon!  Yeah, buddy!  I know what that is, thought I!  'Bout dang time!  No, actually, for all my bee-otching and moaning about WHY was it taking so long, considering that it was less than two hours away from me as of last Thursday, when all was said and done, they did get it to me one day AHEAD of their delivery estimate, which was January 3 (today).  So props to Amazon.

You KNOW I stayed up loooooong into the FREEZING night reading it even though I had to be up at the crack of dawn this morning for work--it was the ER4YT Effect all over again, which consists of two dynamics:  1.)  you cannot put the book down, try as you might (not that I tried with ER, but with this one, I really needed to go to BED, but no, that was not gonna happen); and 2.) you find your jaw dropping, your eyes widening, and your voice shrieking out "YESSSSSSSSSSS!  Oh my goodness, that is SO true!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" every two or so seconds.

One thing that I find cosmically cool is that my "cybertwin", Brighid45, also got her book yesterday and apparently the both of us were simultaneously "YESSSSSSSSSS!"ing all over the place, receiving and reading our books at the same time!

The sound of "YESSSSSSSSSSSS!", "omg, so true!", and "LIGHTBULB!" resounded out to the cosmos from Pennsylvania to Florida last night!

Of course, this morning we exchanged an exhuberant-yet-exhausted series of e-mails, and instead of re-composing my reactions to the book here, I shall lazily cut-and-paste some highlights from what I said to Briglet, at least for starters.  Oh--and apparently she and I are also both Gatherers (although both of us have yet to do the measurements *lol*--hey, it was COLD last night and I had a quilt and several animals on me, huddled together for dear life) yet both have a slight chance of swinging Explorer, depending on the measurements.  In my case, it is all going to come down to the finger measurements, because my ring and index fingers look virtually the SAME (dang it!) in length, but if anything, I would say the ring finger is just a tad--and we are talking extreme tadness here, less than a millimeter, probably, as I did watch the video a few weeks back and attempt the measurements, sans "friend", and they were either the same or, I mean, like, the ring finger was SLIGHTLY longer.  But it is a virtual dead heat between old D2 and D4.  Anyway, apparently, if they are indeed the same, I'm a Gatherer (tie goes to index finger).  If not, there is a chance I'm an Explorer.  A few of the Explorer dynamics were "YESSSSSSSSSS!" moments for me, especially the caffeine sensitivity, big time--I literally get wired for sound from DECAF coffee!  That 3% that is not "decaffed" is enough to shoot me to the ceiling...yet tea, with its theonine, is a different story, but I do have to limit that even, even though I loves, loves, loves it and I agree with the GTD Gatherer lists that it is BENEFICIAL for me (yay, even black tea goes bennie for me in GTD...IF I'm a Gatherer).  But basically EVERYTHING is pointing Gatherer with me.  Still, until I do the measurements, I can't say fer shuuuuur.  Yet, between us chickens, the writing is on the wall.  Anyway, here are some cut and pasted thoughts from my e-mail exchange with Briglet this cooooooold a.m. *LOL*:

"I am 95% positive that I'm a Gatherer, although I could squeak in as an Explorer...just by eyeballing myself I know my torso is about 600 times longer than my legs, and I'm pretty sure my lower legs are shorter than my, or anyone else's on planet earth, upper legs.  The only thing is, my index and ring fingers seem to be basically exactly the same length, but if anything the ring finger is just maybe a millimeter or LESS longer, so I hesitate to do the "tie goes to the index finger" thing, and if I don't do that, then I tip Explorer.  But if I do do that, it is Gatherer, and everything--and I mean EVERYTHING--seems to indicate Gatherer."

Me responding to Brig's complimenting Catherine Whitney:

"Oh, totally.  I am so impressed with her.  She, I believe, is a big reason Dr. D.'s work came alive in ER4YT and also the reason it is so understandable and compelling in the GTD.  I just am totally impressed with her.  They are like Elton John and Bernie Taupin or something:  Dr. D. writes the lyrics, and it is Catherine Whitney who sets it to MUSIC!"

It is amazing how Dr. D. and Catherine Whitney together can take such a substance-dense, complex topic and make it very understandable, engaging, clear and yet comprehensive.  Kudos to the true heir to ER4YT's throne, the Genotype Diet, which follows in ER's now-classic style and promises to be just as life-changing for people!

Brig said:

"You know, reading the new book was very much like reading ER for the first time. I stayed up almost all night with ER back in 1999, and the excitement of finding exactly what I was looking for was one of the most powerful and empowering moments in my life to date."

I responded:

"Yes, exactly, I thought the same thing last night:  this is like when I read ER4YT...only COLDER!!!!!!!!!!!  *LOL*!!!!!!!!!"

Briggie:  "This experience wasn't quite that revolutionary, but it was still exciting and absolutely fascinating."

Moi:  "Yeah, ER4YT was revolutionary for me at the time, as it told me I was not crazy to think it was the PASTA and not the FAT that was making me fat, and it was okay to eat red meat, etc.  Thank GOD for ER4YT!  The GTD can possibly take me to notches unknown and thus be just as life-changing, but it isn't quite as revolutionary for me personally because nothing could beat how jaw-droppingly wonderful ER4YT was, coming into my world like a white knight "on a fine Arab charger" (a little Mick Jagger/Stones reference for you, there) and just telling me I was not crazy for being unable to do well on the high-carb, high-grain, low-fat, low-protein diet of the 80's and 90's.  omg!  I love you, ER4YT!  Love you FOREVER!

Going from the hegemonous diet mindset of the day to ER4YT was going from night to day.  The GTD, wonderful as it seems to be and could prove to be in my life, is going from a beautiful day to a spectacular day, ya know?"

"...btw, where can a gal get some emu and caribou in this God forsaken town?!"

;D

I will have many, MANY further thoughts anon, of course.  But for right now I shall depart with a heartfelt and totally wowed:  o.  m.  g.
Posted by: Dr. D, Thursday, January 3, 2008, 4:29pm; Reply: 1
Hey,

I LOVE Catherine Whitney, but I have to tell you, I wrote 100% of the prose. Catherine was indispensable early on with regard to the book's layout and the order of presentation (really her strong suite) and giving me the most wonderful sounding board early on.

And if GTD reminds you of early experiences with ER, then I'm very, very pleased. I actually tried to achieve that.

Glad you finally got your book!
Posted by: Peppermint Twist, Thursday, January 3, 2008, 4:32pm; Reply: 2
P.S.  Best laugh in the book was during the fascinating discussion of the Human Genome Project, when Dr. D. talks about how it turns out we only have about 30,000 genes as humans, which really isn't that many.  Then he says something like "True, it is more than most fungii..."



In all seriousness, one day, when I have some protein in me (I haven't eaten today) and some sleep to my name (last night was bad, between staying up far later than I should reading, and the weather, which was participating in a BAD way in a "town meeting" with my physical challenge, making it painful and tough to breathe in a way conducive to sleep or even life, for that matter), and have had a proper chance to absorb all the amazing info. in the Genotype Diet, I will attempt to discuss some of the concepts and substance, which was all soooo fascinating and enlightening.  But for now, I shall leave youzzz with my verdict, which is:

LOVED it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  It was like ER4YT II:  The Story Continues!
Posted by: Peppermint Twist, Thursday, January 3, 2008, 4:40pm; Reply: 3
Quoted from Dr. D
Hey,

I LOVE Catherine Whitney, but I have to tell you, I wrote 100% of the prose.

Wow, Dr. D., I was REALLY, really impressed with the writing in the Genotype Diet!  So was my twin, Brighid.  It is a rare human being who is SO great at both the scientific substance and concept, AND conveying that so beautifully and eloquently to "regular folk" who may be quite intelligent, yet usually don't know all the "inside baseball" jargon, scientific language, etc.*  You have DEFINITELY accomplished that here!  I am beyond impressed that you wrote all the prose yourself!!!!  Wasn't it enough coming up with all the concepts, doing all the research, etc.?  You also came up with, for example, the town meeting metaphor?  Beautiful, just perfect!!!
Quoted from Dr. D
And if GTD reminds you of early experiences with ER, then I'm very, very pleased. I actually tried to achieve that.

Well, in that case, I hate to quote W., but "mission accomplished"!  I can't even do justice in my posts today to how great this book is.  It has not yet sunk in, plus I'm kind of out of it today, to put it mildly, so I just can't do it justice, "review"-wise, today, and I won't even attempt it.  These were just my first fuzzy thoughts, ya know?

Now that I find out you not only did the substance part, but the brilliant writing?  All I can say is:  WOW.  I wish I had more eloquence this morning, as the occasion definitely calls for it, but sometime when I'm awake and not under the weather, literally, I shall attempt to do it justice.  Meanwhile, a deeply heartfelt:

THANK YOU, Dr. D'Adamo.

You 100% did accomplish the "ER4YT Effect" and BEYOND.

* edited to add:  As a matter of fact, it is an extremely rare human being who is so great at either ONE of those two things, let alone both!!!
Posted by: Peppermint Twist, Thursday, January 3, 2008, 6:16pm; Reply: 4
Quoted from shoulderblade
Glad to hear the news PT, its like you have been pulled into the lifeboat.

Cold here too but at least we have no Orange trees to worry about.

Hey, if my three kumquat trees die, no big, as they are an avoid--er, excuse me, let me try out the nuevo lingo here--a "toxin" for me anyhow now, if'n I am a Gatherer.

I'm amazed I retained any of the food lists from last night, as it was about 11:35 p.m. by the time I got to them (I like to go in order with the book, not skip ahead, tempting as it was!) and I had been reading since about 7:00 p.m.  By that time, I definitely should have been tucked away in bed, yet as I had with so many sections of the book before it, I thought, oh, wait, let me just read this part, THEN I'll go...  oh, hold on, well, I HAVE to read this before turning in...

I'll bet me, Brig and John Edwards are the tiredest pups in the US of A today.  I heard on C-SPAN the other day that Edwards is pulling a 36-hour marathon campaign jag, including events at 2:15 in the morning, etc.  I could NEVER be a presidential candidate, you'll all be glad and relieved to learn!

;D

Posted by: Jane, Thursday, January 3, 2008, 8:11pm; Reply: 5
For the advanced, I needed the leg and torso ones.  That's hard to measure by yourself so that's why I'm not sure.  I measured longer lower leg (which surprised me) and longer torso.  My fingers are really close and I think on the left hand the ring finger is longer and on the right, the index is a little longer or the same.  That's what ended up making me the Gatherer I think (book's at home).  The first time I measured I thought the ring fingers were both longer and I think that made me an Explorer.  The strength tests didn't work well at all for that though.  They are better for Hunter and Gatherer.  I'm pretty sure I'm a Gatherer even though my wrists (and ankles)are small. I'm still more of an endo than an ectomorph.  I once got down to 103 pounds in college and even then I had a puffy stomach. Didn't last long at that weight.  I've struggled with it all my life.
I didn't do the waist to hip ratio - that would have really depressed me.
Jane  
Posted by: Melissa_J, Thursday, January 3, 2008, 8:47pm; Reply: 6
Right, if you know your torso/leg, upper leg/lower leg, and finger measurements, blood type and secretor status, the strength testing is not figured in.  However you strength test, you follow the food plan for what genotype you measure into.

I'm very strong for hunter, but I'm learning that's probably because of gathering toxins and AGE's which threw my system out of whack into autoimmune and digestive problems.

For what it's worth, I LOVE the gatherer diet.  Couldn't be happier with it or feeling better.  If I were a hunter, I'm sure I'd love the hunter diet, etc.  My fingers were very close and one ring finger may be up to 1 mm longer than the index, the other may be slightly less than a mm longer, but they are, for all intents and purposes, equal.  If you have to measure a million times to get an answer, then they're equal... if that makes you a gatherer, go buy some additive-free cottage cheese and you won't be commiserating for long.
Posted by: Melissa_J, Thursday, January 3, 2008, 8:54pm; Reply: 7
This was me:

Torso leg were pretty definite, not a close margin, but I measured a few times anyway.  Upper and lower leg were closer, within 1/4 inch, which I first counted as equal, then didn't, then did again, but it didn't make any difference in the end.  My fingers were the tough issues, I thought I had to get microscopically accurate.  Then when I finalized the other measurements, and realized my coveted coconut milk hung in the balance, I was about to toss out my newly bought cottage cheese and call myself a hunter.  Then I read Dr. D's post about 1-2 millimeters leeway, and that if the ring finger is longer it's easy to tell, so I dug into the cottage cheese, wondered at the strength testing, wondered at the fact that the cottage cheese did not give me digestive or mood trouble, and got on with it.
Posted by: 815 (Guest), Thursday, January 3, 2008, 9:00pm; Reply: 8
Peppermint, you're so funny LOL! When you live in a warmer climate, your blood gets thinner,hence the reason you're feeling the cold now.
Move back up here and you'll be struttin' in 12 degree weather again.

I'm in the process of making an appointment with Dr. D. I'm confused on my genotype..It's a toss up between Teacher and Warrior and I need the Master for this one.  :-/
Posted by: Victoria, Thursday, January 3, 2008, 9:05pm; Reply: 9
Quoted from Melissa_J
If you have to measure a million times to get an answer, then they're equal...


Words for the wise!   ;)

(How many of us have measured our fingers a million times, trying to get them to show us what we want to see? )
Posted by: Peppermint Twist, Thursday, January 3, 2008, 9:25pm; Reply: 10
Quoted from gulfcoastguy
Hey just an excuse for another gardening spree. Replace the kumquats with a meyer lemon, key lime, or feijoa tree or one of each ;D.

Well, IF they die, I will, but I am usually a planter, not a killer.  ...Although, at one point I did go all commando on the two bougainvilleas in the front.  We are talking, mature, dense, thorny suckas that were intent on taking over the world and, sadly for them, were planted--back in the day by whomever--far too close to the front walk, one on each side.  The result was that I was forever pruning the things.  The were not "planted right for their type", location-wise.  So, one day, when I was furious at my boss:  I attacked!  Took all weekend to hack them into near-oblivion, and one neighbor with a buzz saw to get the remnants of one down to ground level.  They are both now covered with circular rock gardens on either side of the walkway, YET, like something out of a Loren Eisley poem, they refuse to DIE, dang it!  A little happy, thorny sprig is forever jutting jauntily skyward!  So, every few weeks, out I go to kill, kill, kill!  I can't bring myself to use any sort of weed killer on them.  I have NEVER used a pesticide or anything in my yard.  Whatever lives, lives.  Whatever dies, dies.  The bougainvilleas were the only exception wherein, I decided:  you two must go and must go NOW.

The kumquats are some sort of grafts or something and I don't know if that is why, but they get these new shoots with WICKED thorns, so if they did die, I wouldn't care, she said meanly...although I do water them sometimes.  I do loooove me some kumquats.  But if they go, I love your key lime tree idea.  I'm a limey, baby.  Love 'em.

While the other kids were eatin' candy corn and chocolates, I was suckin' on half a raw lime.

Yep.  I've always been a tad different.

Posted by: Peppermint Twist, Thursday, January 3, 2008, 9:38pm; Reply: 11
Quoted from Melissa_J
Then when I finalized the other measurements, and realized my coveted coconut milk hung in the balance...

Oh, dear Lord, I had to turn to the book when I read that and you are right, those rat fink Hunters get to have coconut milk after 3 to 6 months?  Man!  I looooooooove Thai curries with coconut milk (panang curries, etc.).  Something about the curry with the coconut milk is just a perfect marraige.  But, you are right, there it is "milk, coconut" under the list of toxins to avoid...and no coveted black dot!

Oh, the humanity.

Well, I'm sure there are just as many things to be excited about as there are to freak out over.  But coconut milk almost coming back into play, if only I were a genotype that CLEARLY I'm not (hunters are ectomorphic, aggressive types, I'm an endomorphic pushover...dang it!), I could have it.  Oh well.

Be happy in the genotype you are.  The geno is NOT always greener on the other type...or words to that effect!  Okay, the lack of sleep is now clearly showing up in my writing prowse.  Kirk out until manana!  But, man, I'm so excited about the Genotype Diet!!!!  As Brig said and as I, too, realized last night before she and I e-mailed this morning, it was like reading ER4YT for the first time.  A revelation, a revolution, something to revel in!

It hasn't even sunk in yet how great/FAB this is!  But it has sunk in that it hasn't sunk in and color me wowed, awed and psyched!
Posted by: Peppermint Twist, Thursday, January 3, 2008, 9:43pm; Reply: 12
AND, maybe just maybe maybe MAYBE, the Genotype Diet will help me to not just achieve the health baseline I've been able to achieve with the BTD, but to lose the weight I need to lose and keep it off for good this time.

(pray)

I will do my part, compliance-wise, once I get going on it.  Don't know about the infrared saunas though, but that is for another post, another day.  Goodbye, fine and fabulous peeps!
Posted by: Mrs T O+, Thursday, January 3, 2008, 10:59pm; Reply: 13
So, if the fingers are equal, does that mean it goes to the index finger?

Hey, PT!  So glad you got the book & it looks like you are a bona fide gatherer (unless those fingers do something strange)!!
Looking forward to your posts,
Mrs "T"    O+
Posted by: Don, Thursday, January 3, 2008, 11:16pm; Reply: 14
Quoted from Mrs T O+
So, if the fingers are equal, does that mean it goes to the index finger?

Yes, if they are equal or +/- 2-3 mm the index finger is considered longer.


Posted by: 1323 (Guest), Thursday, January 3, 2008, 11:16pm; Reply: 15
Hi PT... Don is right.  If you know your BT and Secretor status and your fingers and torso and legs measurements, you go right to the Advanced Calculator.  

The fingers really seem to be key.  Once I found out my index fingers were both longer than my ring fingers, it really didn't matter what my torso or legs were doing, I ended up always being in the Gatherer stage.

The strength testing is just to see how strong your given GT is after you've done the Advanced Calculator which is the best calculator to use according to what I've been told here on the boards.  I scored under 5 points on the strength test for Gatherer but see Page 104 'Interpreting the Results.'  Scoring under 5 points doesn't change the fact that I'm a Gatherer, it just means that I'm not easy to define.
Posted by: Brighid45, Friday, January 4, 2008, 12:42am; Reply: 16
As my twinnie says, we did indeed read our new copies of the GTD together last night--sort of :) PT was buried under a ton of quilts and blankies with her furkids, reading away in Florida; I was burrowed into my fleece blankie and flannel sheets with my furkid, reading away in Pennsy(and listening to my new copy of the Beatles Love cd). It was indeed very much like that night back in 1999 when I stayed up reading Eat Right 4 Your Type and realizing in rising, wild excitement and hope that finally, FINALLY the right way to eat had found me.

I did my measurements tonight and while they were a tad approximate, they were clear enough to indicate I'm a Gatherer. This makes great sense to me and is a welcome addition to the O secretor food plan. I'm really looking forward to implementing changes for the better.

Thanks so much for all your hard work, Dr. D. I can't wait to be that example of 'glowing good health' you mentioned for Gatherers! :)
Posted by: kate4975, Saturday, January 5, 2008, 12:35am; Reply: 17
Quoted from Don
Yes, if they are equal or +/- 2-3 mm the index finger is considered longer.


Alright, now I'm freaking out again. It was my understanding that Dr. D assumes a margin of error of +/- 2-3 mm but that if you're off by that much on one measurement, you'll likely be off by that much on the rest; I didn't take it to mean that if your ring finger is less than 2-3 mm longer then it still goes to the index.

My index fingers are only 1 mm shorter than my ring fingers on both hands (from the crease). If that small of a difference should still go to the index finger, shouldn't the on-line calculator take that into account? When I measure from the joint, my ring finger is 1/4" longer so I really feel I should stick with the longer ring finger.

Posted by: Don, Saturday, January 5, 2008, 2:12am; Reply: 18
Quoted from kate4975


Alright, now I'm freaking out again. It was my understanding that Dr. D assumes a margin of error of +/- 2-3 mm but that if you're off by that much on one measurement, you'll likely be off by that much on the rest; I didn't take it to mean that if your ring finger is less than 2-3 mm longer then it still goes to the index.

My index fingers are only 1 mm shorter than my ring fingers on both hands (from the crease). If that small of a difference should still go to the index finger, shouldn't the on-line calculator take that into account? When I measure from the joint, my ring finger is 1/4" longer so I really feel I should stick with the longer ring finger.


Read Dr. D's comments about finger measurements: http://www.dadamo.com/cgi-bin/Blah/Blah.pl?m-1198071004/s-217/#num217

I am working with WFM on some issues with the finger length algorithm in the online GT calculator. It currently has some problems. As part of that I have raised the issue about either the program or the worksheet should address the measurement tolerance issue.

Posted by: mikendomsmum, Saturday, January 5, 2008, 2:22am; Reply: 19
What I've found very interesting is the path I took to my Gathererness.   :D
The tests showed very different results:

Basic-Nomad
Intermediate-Explorer
Advanced-Gatherer
GenoTypediet.com-Gatherer (after the very first measurement)

Am I just strange or did this happen to everyone or anyone else?  Did you all take all three tests from the book?
Posted by: Don, Saturday, January 5, 2008, 2:28am; Reply: 20
Quoted from mikendomsmum
Am I just strange or did this happen to everyone or anyone else?  Did you all take all three tests from the book?

Did you read page 95?

Posted by: teri, Saturday, January 5, 2008, 5:30am; Reply: 21
Quoted from Peppermint Twist
"planted right for their type"


good one! 8)

Since this is a 'Got it!!!' thread, thought I'd just check in to say 'Got it!!!', yeah finally! Picked it up at my local PO just this beautiful rainy and windy Friday eve, so ya know where I'll be this weekend ... on the couch, probably not sitting right for my type. ;D
Posted by: mikendomsmum, Saturday, January 5, 2008, 4:42pm; Reply: 22
Quoted from Don

Did you read page 95?



Yes, I did read page 95.  I understand why it happens, I was wondering if everyone/anyone else tested that way.  
Posted by: kate4975, Saturday, January 5, 2008, 5:06pm; Reply: 23
Quoted from Don
Read Dr. D's comments about finger measurements: http://www.dadamo.com/cgi-bin/Blah/Blah.pl?m-1198071004/s-217/#num217

I am working with WFM on some issues with the finger length algorithm in the online GT calculator. It currently has some problems. As part of that I have raised the issue about either the program or the worksheet should address the measurement tolerance issue.


This is from Dr. D's post. I bolded the key points that are causing my confusion.

"Since most of these measurements are relative indexes (comparing one number to another), these levels of tolerance remain fairly consistent. Perhaps the only thing I can add to the discussion is that our tests showed that with a small millimeter based ruler (and even the ones in the states have mm on one side), almost everyone was accurate within 2-3 millimeters.

Carried over, a D2 and D4 (each within a scope of +/- 2 millimeters) should do just fine. Other issues (like webbing) while not unimportant, were not seen as non-starters as long as the person did not separate the fingers in a wide, clonic or 'rigid' manner, and even then if they used the same technique (even an incorrect one) on both fingers, the results were still  pretty accurate.

Also, in evaluating the results from the clinic studies it was easy to see why ties (or even close neck and neck issues) should go to the index finger. True androgenic types have way longer ring fingers; a distinction often obvious enough to preclude a  any need for measurement whatsoever. My personal take on this is that while there are thousands of estrogenizing xenobiotics (man made chemicals) in the environment, there are not too many xenobiotic androgens in the environment. Again, pure supposition, but I feel that rather than lengthening D2, these estrogenizing xenobiotics shorten or stunt D4.

In English subtitles:

In doing the measurements, it is more important to be consistent than accurate. If you are accurate you can be right for the right reason. If you are consistent, you can not only be right for the right reason, you can be right for the wrong reason as well."

I'm reading this as people's measurements of EACH finger will be +/- 2-3 mm, not that a difference in length of 2-3 mm between fingers should still go to the index finger, as I'm getting from your post, Don.

So, if every time I measure from the crease my ring finger is roughly 1 mm longer and it is 1/4" longer when measuring from the joint, then I should put that my ring finger is longer, right?

I could really use a straight "yes" or "no" directly from Dr. D here!!! (pray)
Posted by: Don, Saturday, January 5, 2008, 8:41pm; Reply: 24
I actually think this was one of the key points in that post of Dr. D's:
Quoted from Dr. D
Also, in evaluating the results from the clinic studies it was easy to see why ties (or even close neck and neck issues) should go to the index finger. True androgenic types have way longer ring fingers; a distinction often obvious enough to preclude a  any need for measurement whatsoever.
Posted by: kate4975, Sunday, January 6, 2008, 7:21pm; Reply: 25
But is mine really neck and neck? Isn't a 1/4" difference from the joint pretty significant?
Posted by: geminisue, Sunday, January 6, 2008, 8:49pm; Reply: 26
I just bought a copy of it at Giant Eagles Grocery Store.  Wow, I am a gatherer for sure, and I had such fun figuring all this out just to make sure!.  So much to learn. With Giant Eagle Card Discount total was 18.71+ 1.44 tax.
Posted by: Melissa_J, Sunday, January 6, 2008, 9:16pm; Reply: 27
Quoted from Vicki
Melissa, did you notice that rosemary is a black dot for gatherer's?  


Yes, I did.  My body knew it :)  I'm glad to know I wasn't reacting to something that's supposed to be good for me.

Posted by: Mercedes, Sunday, January 6, 2008, 10:05pm; Reply: 28
Quoted from kate4975
But is mine really neck and neck? Isn't a 1/4" difference from the joint pretty significant?


I don't believe the measurements are to be taken from the joint. Moreover, as Don and Dr. D mentioned, Androgenic types, the difference is usually quite noticeable.

As some here have decided/concluded, it they've been spending hours trying to figure out if their ring finger *really* is longer, odds are it should be considered a tie.

On strength tests, I test just as strong on Gatherer as I do on Hunter as I do on Explorer. A whopping 6 on each... however, my naturally curvy state allows me to accept my gatherer status even though yes, it seems that odd that because of my blood type, the only other thing that determines my genotype is whether or not my index fingers are longer.

Posted by: Melissa_J, Sunday, January 6, 2008, 10:13pm; Reply: 29
I just checked, and if I measure from the knuckle on the back of my hand, my ring fingers are more than 1/4 inch longer as well.  But that's not the way they did it at the conference, or on the video, where they measured from the crease.  Wherever you choose in the crease, just use the same method on both fingers, don't spread them out too far (which pushes up the webbing), and you'll get an accurate result.  I'd get a little different result each time, within a millimeter, sometimes the ring was longer, sometimes equal, sometimes shorter, so it was too close to call, and went to the index finger. In the end it matched my measurement at the conference, within a millimeter.

My husband's ring fingers are long enough that I hardly needed a ruler to figure it out, an index card with marks on it made it obvious enough.
Posted by: Lloyd, Sunday, January 6, 2008, 11:27pm; Reply: 30
Quoted from kate4975
But is mine really neck and neck? Isn't a 1/4" difference from the joint pretty significant?


Using the video/book method, if you feel there is a significant difference then go with it. The worst case is that you figure out, after a few weeks or months, that you should be on the other diet.

I find it troublesome to tell people that they should ignore what seem to them to be correct and appropriate measurements by following directions.
Posted by: Mercedes, Sunday, January 6, 2008, 11:34pm; Reply: 31
Quoted from Lloyd


I find it troublesome to tell people that they should ignore what seem to them to be correct and appropriate measurements by following directions.


Agreed, however, I find that incessant measuring and obsessing over it suggests that they aren't sure about the results, they aren't too confident in the results, and that usually, it's because they want a certain result they're not getting, which makes me question their results...
Posted by: Lloyd, Sunday, January 6, 2008, 11:46pm; Reply: 32
Agreed. That still makes some assumptions which may or may not be true. Still, if someone has enough trouble that they need to ask, chances are it is close enough to be a 'tie'. On the other hand there seems to be a case or two where gatherers have turned out to really be hunters when fairly close with the ring marginally longer, we shall see in time if that is true.
Posted by: kate4975, Monday, January 7, 2008, 6:31am; Reply: 33
Quoted from Mercedes


Agreed, however, I find that incessant measuring and obsessing over it suggests that they aren't sure about the results, they aren't too confident in the results, and that usually, it's because they want a certain result they're not getting, which makes me question their results...


Well, in my case, I was confident in my measurements until I started reading the threads about measurements that are really close should go to the index finger. I understand that I should measure from the crease and the ring finger is longer that way, I just figured I'd measure from the joint as well to confirm. I mean, if I'm measuring finger length, why wouldn't a measurements from the joint work?

I actually did expect to be a Gatherer from the initial descriptions--Nomad surprised me. I'll just go with Nomad and see how I feel.

Posted by: Novelia, Monday, January 7, 2008, 6:49am; Reply: 34
Quoted from kate4975

I understand that I should measure from the crease and the ring finger is longer that way, I just figured I'd measure from the joint as well to confirm. I mean, if I'm measuring finger length, why wouldn't a measurements from the joint work?



Please explain what the crease is. I have the book but I am confused about this. It makes a difference for my GenoType, maybe!

Posted by: 521 (Guest), Monday, January 7, 2008, 11:45am; Reply: 35
I have to say that I've been reading the book several times over and already using it as a resource.  The writing style, and the organization of the book, are superb.  It reads like the experience of being on an educational ride at EPCOT... There is no effort to intimidate, alienate, or inferiorize the reader with incomprehensibility whatsoever.  It's a true teaching book.

Nobody does it better... Makes me sad for the rest.
Posted by: TJ, Monday, January 7, 2008, 1:28pm; Reply: 36
Quoted from Novelia
Please explain what the crease is.


I've been wondering the same thing, and I doubt we're alone.  Although in my case, it's not going to change my GT
Posted by: Dr. D, Monday, January 7, 2008, 1:39pm; Reply: 37
I suppose if you are that undecided about your finger length, you can just move on to the strength testing and use that as a tie breaker between the rule outs. There are lots of ways to skin a cat...
Posted by: Dr. D, Monday, January 7, 2008, 1:46pm; Reply: 38
Quoted from 521
I have to say that I've been reading the book several times over and already using it as a resource.  The writing style, and the organization of the book, are superb.  It reads like the experience of being on an educational ride at EPCOT... There is no effort to intimidate, alienate, or inferiorize the reader with incomprehensibility whatsoever.  It's a true teaching book.

Nobody does it better... Makes me sad for the rest.


Thanks Ronnie,

BTW, I'm burning the base DVD that has the Genotype movies, but also has the BTD movies as a bonus. When I get a few copies done I'll send you one.

Little Known Facts Department:


The amount of material included in the GTD was roughly one-sixth of all the manuscript material. Some of this has shown up elsewhere (the IfHI Master's Study Guide, for example.) Most of it sits idly on my hard dive.
Posted by: Peppermint Twist, Monday, January 7, 2008, 3:46pm; Reply: 39
Quoted from Don
...if they (D2 and D4 fingers) are equal or +/- 2-3 mm the index finger is considered longer.

Don, thank you for this, I didn't know the exact specs of what is considered a "tie" and this really seals it that mine are going to be tied, so tie goes to the index, so...again:  all signs point to Gatherer.

I did not have time to do my measurements this weekend as I had hoped to.  Hey, I was too busy going on a massive G2 shopping spree!!!!!!!!!! I have stocked my fridge and kitchen (and drawer at work!) with so many Gatherer superfoods, and superfoods are basically all I ate all weekend, it was GREAT!  I am LOVING this thing so far.  It is like the BTD, only tweaked to make it specific for me personally, at least that is how it feels!  More on my joyous shopping spree and embarkment (is that a word?) on the GTD in another thread...

Quoted from Ron-O-Non
I have to say that I've been reading the book several times over and already using it as a resource.  The writing style, and the organization of the book, are superb.  It reads like the experience of being on an educational ride at EPCOT... There is no effort to intimidate, alienate, or inferiorize the reader with incomprehensibility whatsoever.  It's a true teaching book.

Nobody does it better... Makes me sad for the rest.

Well said, Ron-O-Non (or should I call you "Carly"?   ;D)  It is a true teaching book.  I and my twinnie, Brig, were blown away by the superb writing, which is at once substance-dense, yet clear as crystal and easily understandable by someone who never heard of methylation before.  It is also very comprehensive, laying out the science clearly, helping you figure out where you fit into the picture, and simply yet totally laying out what your diet specs should be.

I really like the categorizations of superfoods and toxins to avoid, with diamonds indicating which are turbo-superfoods, and black dots or the lack thereof indicating which toxins to avoid should be avoided consistently, by everyone in your genotype, versus which ones can be incorporated back into the diet after an initial 3 to 6-month "detox" period, provided you are a healthy individual at a healthy weight.

It is all very clear, logical, and understandable, PLUS being written in a very engaging style that is interesting!

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