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BTD Forums  /  The GenoType Diet  /  glycation
Posted by: JohnW, Sunday, December 30, 2007, 7:40pm
I am interested in using BTD compliant fruit juice as a base for some of my protein shakes.Would this combination create a glycation problem once consumed?
Posted by: Dr. D, Sunday, December 30, 2007, 7:42pm; Reply: 1
If you GenoTyped as a Gatherer, perhaps.
Posted by: jayneeo, Sunday, December 30, 2007, 7:44pm; Reply: 2
what the heck is a glycation problem???? I am a gatherer...so what 's the deal? I put fruit juice in my protein shakes....but tell me why not and I won't.
Posted by: Dr. D, Sunday, December 30, 2007, 7:49pm; Reply: 3
Read the book, pages 26-27.
Posted by: jayneeo, Sunday, December 30, 2007, 8:35pm; Reply: 4
wow....thanks, Dr. D.!
Wow, just read it.....so it would seem that we should keep proteins separate from fruits? maybe. Even better, don't caraamelize things (which really is yummy...) :o
Posted by: JohnW, Monday, December 31, 2007, 12:06am; Reply: 5
I still can't figure out my genotype.The calculator rates me as a Gatherer because I am a B+,non-sec,legs longer than torso,upper leg longer than lower,and index fingers longer than ring fingers.....But,until the past 3-4 years,I have been an ecto-mesomorph and my fingers just touch around my wrists(I am 63 yrs old and am starting to put on excess fat).
Posted by: 12 (Guest), Monday, December 31, 2007, 12:12am; Reply: 6
Quoted from JohnW
I still can't figure out my genotype.The calculator rates me as a Gatherer because I am a B+,non-sec,legs longer than torso,upper leg longer than lower,and index fingers longer than ring fingers.....But,until the past 3-4 years,I have been an ecto-mesomorph and my fingers just touch around my wrists(I am 63 yrs old and am starting to put on excess fat).


Hi John,

Sounds like a Gatherer to me.  Don't get hung up on what you think a particular genotype must look like.  Each genotype has people of all shapes and sizes...
Posted by: 1323 (Guest), Monday, December 31, 2007, 12:15am; Reply: 7
Quoted from jayneeo
wow....thanks, Dr. D.!
Wow, just read it.....so it would seem that we should keep proteins separate from fruits? maybe. Even better, don't caraamelize things (which really is yummy...) :o


Oh come on now.. help!  I like to have a piece of fruit after my meals and now is that off limits since I have protein at virtually every meal?  Please say it isn't so!??????
Posted by: jayneeo, Monday, December 31, 2007, 1:04am; Reply: 8
well, funkymuse, it sounds like it is so, since gatherers don't clear glycation well....back in the day (and still now) a lot of folks did food combining, in which they didn't eat carb with protein, now that was hard. Eating fruit an hour or so away from food is probably good....
Posted by: 1323 (Guest), Monday, December 31, 2007, 2:37am; Reply: 9
well darn.  
Posted by: Dr. D, Monday, December 31, 2007, 11:54am; Reply: 10
Quoted from 12


Hi John,

Sounds like a Gatherer to me.  Don't get hung up on what you think a particular genotype must look like.  Each genotype has people of all shapes and sizes...


Yup.

BTW, the low fruit is for the first stage, since a high fructose diet increases glycation. After the first phase this eases somewhat.
Posted by: JohnW, Monday, December 31, 2007, 12:33pm; Reply: 11
Thanks for the help.I will give the Gatherer diet a try.Guess I will have to find a good home for my formally super beneficial BTD kefir and containers of whey protein powder.
Posted by: 1323 (Guest), Monday, December 31, 2007, 3:01pm; Reply: 12
Quoted from Dr. D


Yup.

BTW, the low fruit is for the first stage, since a high fructose diet increases glycation. After the first phase this eases somewhat.


Thanks Dr. D.  Last night I ate my beef stew and then and hour or so later, had my basmati rice with a pear before bed.  So it's doable but weird!  :)  All changes are weird at first.


Quoted from JohnW
Thanks for the help.I will give the Gatherer diet a try.Guess I will have to find a good home for my formally super beneficial BTD kefir and containers of whey protein powder.


Hey why can't you have Whey Protein Powder?  I see it on the list a a Superbeneficial for Gatherers?
Posted by: JohnW, Monday, December 31, 2007, 4:08pm; Reply: 13
See page 209.It is one of the foodstuff that can be reintroduced for ocassional use after a period of time.
Posted by: Don, Monday, December 31, 2007, 6:14pm; Reply: 14
I don't think the glycation issue is really about not eating protein and high glycemic carbs at the same time.

Your body is already full of protein molecules all over the place that can be damage by glycation.

What you want to avoid is eating the high glycemic foods at any time, particularly for the 1st 3-6 months on the GTD, so they can't damage the proteins in your body.
Posted by: jayneeo, Monday, December 31, 2007, 6:18pm; Reply: 15
thank you so much for that clarification, Don.
Posted by: 1323 (Guest), Monday, December 31, 2007, 7:13pm; Reply: 16
Quoted from Don
I don't think the glycation issue is really about not eating protein and high glycemic carbs at the same time.

Your body is already full of protein molecules all over the place that can be damage by glycation.

What you want to avoid is eating the high glycemic foods at any time, particularly for the 1st 3-6 months on the GTD, so they can't damage the proteins in your body.


Well tell that to the folks making up the daily food lists on the  GTD site.  Todays morning breakfast for Gatherers was Cottage cheese with Pineapple and Papaya and the morning snack is Ricotta Cheese with Pineapple.

I don't think I'm ever going to heal because there is not a huge possibility I can give up fruit.  
Posted by: Lola, Monday, December 31, 2007, 7:16pm; Reply: 17
Celery Sticks with Almond Butter is the snack! ;)
Posted by: 1323 (Guest), Monday, December 31, 2007, 7:18pm; Reply: 18
Sorry Lola... my diet list says Pineapple with Ricotta Cheese.

there's nothing anywhere for today with celery and almond butter.
Posted by: Don, Monday, December 31, 2007, 7:23pm; Reply: 19
Interesting, my Gatherer meal plan shows pumpkin seeds for a morning snack and celery and almond butter for the afternoon snack.

Breakfast is Puffed Millet with Rice Bran, Rice Milk, Dried Apricots, and Walnuts.
Posted by: 1323 (Guest), Monday, December 31, 2007, 7:40pm; Reply: 20
Maybe the menus are set up for starting with Day one on the day you joined... so Don you joined before me, so you are ahead of me on the menus... understand?  I'm still back at the day one menu today since I just joined last night.
Posted by: jayneeo, Monday, December 31, 2007, 7:44pm; Reply: 21
I love those menus!! Now, we don't get many fruits but Pineapple is so divine!
Posted by: Don, Monday, December 31, 2007, 7:44pm; Reply: 22
That is a possibility.
Posted by: Lola, Monday, December 31, 2007, 11:06pm; Reply: 23
individuality at its best!! ;)
it is according to your personal data, I guess.
Posted by: 1323 (Guest), Tuesday, January 1, 2008, 2:10am; Reply: 24
Quoted from Lola
individuality at its best!! ;)
it is according to your personal data, I guess.


I BET it's based on how many calories you chose to eat!

I chose the bigger amount because the lower amount was ABSURD!  Whoever is putting those together is definitely from the old school of dieting starvation!  1200 calories at the low end is not healthy physically and certainly NOT mentally in the long run.

Just an opinion from FAR TOO MANY YEARS of useless low calorie dieting.    :o
Posted by: accidental_chef, Thursday, January 3, 2008, 3:58am; Reply: 25
Quoted from Don
Interesting, my Gatherer meal plan shows pumpkin seeds for a morning snack and celery and almond butter for the afternoon snack.

Breakfast is Puffed Millet with Rice Bran, Rice Milk, Dried Apricots, and Walnuts.


It's a huge departure from the protein+veggies breakfast, isnt it? How does it feel...?
Posted by: Lloyd, Thursday, January 3, 2008, 4:10am; Reply: 26
Even the Hunter plans have vegetarian meals and light breakfasts. I'm going to be using my license to be an Individual for awhile, at least until I'm adapted to other changes and see what's what.  ;)
Posted by: italybound, Thursday, January 3, 2008, 4:17am; Reply: 27
Quoted from Don
Breakfast is Puffed Millet with Rice Bran, Rice Milk, Dried Apricots, and Walnuts.


Oh please, please, please, I want to be a Gatherer. I am tired of eating dinner at every meal.  >:(  I want some breakfast food too!!!  :'(   STILL no book. 2 days late now. If it's not here tomorrow, I'll be making some phone calls. Well maybe Friday  ;), tomorrow I'm tied up.
Posted by: 1323 (Guest), Thursday, January 3, 2008, 4:30am; Reply: 28
So far, I'm having a hard time with the light breakfasts.  I'm trying but I have to eat 2 hours later and then again 2 hours later.  I'm much better with a nice big breakfast that holds me steady.

Today I did the light breakfast and man low blood sugar and hunger 2 hours later about put me down.  
Posted by: Don, Thursday, January 3, 2008, 4:54am; Reply: 29
Quoted from accidental_chef
It's a huge departure from the protein+veggies breakfast, isnt it? How does it feel...?

I don't plan on following the GTD site meal plan. I never followed any of the BTD meal plans either.

I have been eating lamb and cooked greens for breakfast for about 2 years. Before that it was beef or bison for a couple of years. Lamb is a Gatherer diamond superfood (S) so I will probably continue with that most days. When I run out of lamb I might have eggs for a day.

I will try to switch to eating more turnip greens (S) instead of my usual collard greens (N), although I still plan to eat plenty of collard greens.
Posted by: jayneeo, Thursday, January 3, 2008, 5:32am; Reply: 30
I've made up some gatherer breakfasts lately...may not be bennie, but they work for me. one third cup of rolled oats cooked up in water with currants and cinnamon, flaxseed and agave and bit of butter and salt.....that is so satisfying, then I have a turkey sausage  or a scrambled egg. Maybe I don't need the protein like I think I do....(you know the food combining thing)
Posted by: OSuzanna, Thursday, January 3, 2008, 5:36am; Reply: 31
Quoted from 1323


Well tell that to the folks making up the daily food lists on the  GTD site.  Todays morning breakfast for Gatherers was Cottage cheese with Pineapple and Papaya and the morning snack is Ricotta Cheese with Pineapple.

I don't think I'm ever going to heal because there is not a huge possibility I can give up fruit.  


From personal experience w/BTD, one can be amazed at what one can give up readily after thinking that impossible. ;)
Posted by: Melissa_J, Thursday, January 3, 2008, 5:42am; Reply: 32
I agree, 1200 calories should not be an option to gatherers, it would shut my metabolism right down.

That would be cool if it gave us all the same menus at the same time, we could compare notes and substitutions :)  It probably randomizes it.  I'm surprised at how loaded with carbs the breakfasts are, of course I've always put off the carbs until later in the day.
Posted by: JohnW, Thursday, January 3, 2008, 12:40pm; Reply: 33
With the fruit and veg. sources this seems to be a low carb diet to me.I realize foods like millet and oats up the carb load but generally you subtract the fiber from the carbs and it comes out more moderate than you might think.My carbs have been quite low the past few days and my body hasn't noticed.
Being a mesomorph,and a power lifter I feel the need for more protein,so I add a scoop of egg white protein powder to each feeding...I am,however,missing my whey protein powder like a lost lover.
Posted by: 1323 (Guest), Thursday, January 3, 2008, 2:46pm; Reply: 34
I cannot even find turnip greens in my store and the collard greens are not organic!  So I'm still downing the Swiss Chard and enjoying it.

But I can find spinich which I like best raw or added to soups to disguise the flavor.  Being a super taster is not a good thing when it comes to greens!!!
Posted by: Don, Thursday, January 3, 2008, 3:00pm; Reply: 35
Quoted from 1323
I cannot even find turnip greens in my store and the collard greens are not organic!  So I'm still downing the Swiss Chard and enjoying it.

But I can find spinich which I like best raw or added to soups to disguise the flavor.  Being a super taster is not a good thing when it comes to greens!!!

Unfortunately, I can only find organic bundles of spinach every once in a while at the HFS and I don't buy non-organic spinach since it is 11th on EWG's pesticides food list.

I may have to start buying the more expensive washed and bagged organic spinach.

Posted by: 1323 (Guest), Thursday, January 3, 2008, 3:24pm; Reply: 36
Quoted from Don



I may have to start buying the more expensive washed and bagged organic spinach.



Yes I've had to buy that for along time now.  It's very pricey.  But I justify it because I used to spend anywhere from $10 to $15 on junk food when I would binge.  
Posted by: TypeOSecretor, Friday, January 4, 2008, 2:40am; Reply: 37
Quoted from Don
I don't think the glycation issue is really about not eating protein and high glycemic carbs at the same time.

Your body is already full of protein molecules all over the place that can be damage by glycation.

What you want to avoid is eating the high glycemic foods at any time, particularly for the 1st 3-6 months on the GTD, so they can't damage the proteins in your body.


Thanks for this note.  It is taking me some time to get a grasp of what glycation means.  Does this mean that the superfoods listed under fruits (for gatherer) don't cause an adverse reaction to whatever body chemistry we are trying to achieve?  For example, it would be OK to eat 1/2 a grapefruit with an egg because the grapefruit does not cause the adverse reaction?  Also, it would be OK to combine the superfood vegetables with a superfood meat - such as a mushroom, snow pea, onion stir fry with turkey and basamanti rice on the side?  The only dumb question is the one not asked.

Posted by: Melissa_J, Friday, January 4, 2008, 2:55am; Reply: 38
Good question, and I don't know the answer to it, but I hope somebody does.

I can see avoiding major fructose sources, like fruit juice or agave nectar, when you're having protein (i.e. meat).  Beyond that, I don't know, but that part alone will take some time for me to get used to.  Other carbs, besides fructose-containing ones, may be ok... I hope.
Posted by: Lola, Friday, January 4, 2008, 3:06am; Reply: 39
fruit pectin is the one of choice.....does anyone know a source?
Posted by: jayneeo, Friday, January 4, 2008, 3:21am; Reply: 40
I am sure the stir fry vegiies and meat over rice is fine...
Posted by: Lola, Friday, January 4, 2008, 3:48am; Reply: 41
Quoted Text
missing my whey protein powder like a lost lover

do the GT testing...you might be very surprised to find the missing link, John!
Posted by: Lola, Friday, January 4, 2008, 3:49am; Reply: 42
today s menu was ostrich burgers, yams and zucchini.....
i believe it s fine to combine. :)
Posted by: Lloyd, Friday, January 4, 2008, 4:24am; Reply: 43
Quoted from Lola
fruit pectin is the one of choice.....does anyone know a source?


In the states, pectin can be bought with other canning supplies sold in most large groceries. Haven't looked in a few years, assume this to still be true.
Posted by: italybound, Monday, January 7, 2008, 4:29am; Reply: 44
Quoted from 1323
So far, I'm having a hard time with the light breakfasts....Today I did the light breakfast and man low blood sugar and hunger 2 hours later about put me down.


just another case of individuality.  :-/  I would love it if I came out being able to eat light at breakfast, but I'm doubting it. I think I'm going to be more like you, need the protein.
Posted by: JohnW, Saturday, January 26, 2008, 1:33am; Reply: 45
After getting my wife to help with measuring and getting it right this time,it seems I am a Nomad.That seems more organic since I strength test 24 as a Nomad,and 6 as a gatherer.It was very nice to dine with the gatherers,but it is time to wander the Stepps...peace,cousins ;)
Posted by: 312 (Guest), Saturday, January 26, 2008, 2:50am; Reply: 46
My Dad has a lot of brown age spots/marks on his skin, some raised, some not.  I am starting to get them also.  Not raised like him, but lots of what looks sort of like large freckles on the arms, etc.
I think they are this glycation showing up on my skin.  Is carnosine the supplement to help that?  Does anyone else have this?
Posted by: Ribbit, Saturday, January 26, 2008, 3:30am; Reply: 47
I have several "angel kisses" that Dr. D mentioned were common with Warriors.  I've had them since childhood.  My A son has a couple too, and he's 2 1/2.
Posted by: Beth, Saturday, January 26, 2008, 5:38pm; Reply: 48
Does anyone know any more about these brown spots on ones skin?
I have so many of them.
Ribbit you say Dr. D calls them "angel kisses".
So I am hoping someone can share more about these brwon spots and if they are indeed caused by glycation.
Paulam, carnosine is supposed to help glycation as well as Querctin and yerba mate says Dr. D in the Gatherer protocol in the GTD book.
Also we are not to eat any carbohydrates or fruits with a protein meal as this causes glycation.
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