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BTD Forums  /  Nonnie Clubhouse  /  Is my body over-reacting to avoids?
Posted by: 348 (Guest), Sunday, September 16, 2007, 6:03am
So in honor of my New Year (hebrew calendar) I figured how much can a bit of apple dipped in honey hurt? I took just a thin slice of apple, and dipped it just a bit in the honey and had only one honey cookie (gluten free, made with corn though) and just a spoonful of honey-carrots and the next morning I woke up with a painful throat, painful swallow, and painful ear!

Otherwise I have been 100% compliant for about two weeks. (Since I got my secretor-status results)

I am quite disappointed that just a little bit of non-compliance makes me feel so sick!
Posted by: ISA-MANUELA (Guest), Sunday, September 16, 2007, 6:34am; Reply: 1
dearest diffy,
when our bodies became *neat and clean* of avoids, we might react very very harsh when they get reintroduced; Peter wrote once (I don't remember if it was in E or LR4YT)....that those reactions are triggerd with the 500 x effect!!!! So I don't think that it is coz you've been acting in such a minuscule miscontentment to and with your habits; but as being nonnies, it is even worse and tougher especially with sugars :o :-/
Better to get to your knowledge as early as possible, so no disappointment might occure ;) :D.......
all the best for the 13. ...&Rosh......:K)
Posted by: 348 (Guest), Sunday, September 16, 2007, 6:57am; Reply: 2
I figured since I'm in a relatively better state of health that I can chance a piece of honeyed apple...but my guess was wrong.... Don't think I will attempt honey for a very long time now! Neither will I attempt a sliver of apple!
I think you're right, tis the sugars that are so viscious! Just remembered I had a bit of pomegranate too....it's a bennie...but the sugars are soooo bad for me....in fact my diet is basically devoid of any and all fruits! oh how I crave a fruit!
Posted by: ISA-MANUELA (Guest), Sunday, September 16, 2007, 9:01am; Reply: 3
diffy, some super red, fine fruity apples called Gala from New Zealand are quiet in my fridge.... I think
I'll have to cook em.......:-/.......orrrr give em away :-/.....perhaps would it help to add some pancreatic enzymes to our diets....so......hmmm.....those who are passing in the intestines, not by stomach activities, but then we've to take care about the *hog-issue* :P......better to go for the plants :D ;D .....
Posted by: Debra+, Sunday, September 16, 2007, 11:21am; Reply: 4
Hey diffy...I can sympathize with you girl...honey...a big avoid for we nonnies.  Yes, our bodies are getting cleaned from the avoids of the world and once we do that it can take just a little bit of avoid to set it off again.  And as you stated...one slice of apple with honey, one gluten free cookie made with corn(another big avoid) and a spoonful of honey-carrots...for the O nonnie that is a big amount to take after being compliant.  Your body is reacting and trying to rid you of them.  Yes...sugar (honey) is like a poison to us.  I hope that you are feeling better soon.  If you can...do some O exercise to help sweat it out. ;) :D

Debra :)
Posted by: mikeo, Sunday, September 16, 2007, 12:20pm; Reply: 5
the bacteria in your mouth and throat were fed with sugar and without antigens floating freely there's an ill effect.

try oil of oregano as a mouth wash before you go to bed...one drop in your mouth and swish with water and spit out
Posted by: Beouemom, Sunday, September 16, 2007, 2:30pm; Reply: 6
Is there a link to tell me what and who oil of oregano is good for?  
Posted by: mikeo, Sunday, September 16, 2007, 2:35pm; Reply: 7
Quoted from Beouemom
Is there a link to tell me what and who oil of oregano is good for?  


anti-bacteria, anti-viral, anti-parasitic
Posted by: Beouemom, Sunday, September 16, 2007, 2:37pm; Reply: 8
thanks
Posted by: 348 (Guest), Sunday, September 16, 2007, 2:37pm; Reply: 9
I maintain it's crazy a body should react so...when so many people out there can eat to their heart's content, and don't suffer the day after eating a bit of corn, a sliver of apple, and a dash of honey! It's not like I'm having licorice and chewing gum and gumdrops and fruit by the foot! Aarrgh!
Posted by: Debra+, Sunday, September 16, 2007, 3:06pm; Reply: 10
Ah...not so true diffy.  These people are suffering, but just don't know it.  Before BTD when I was eating all the wrong foods and having health issues from sinus problems, achiness, itchiness, etc... I just thought it was normal as they still do. ;)

Debra :)
Posted by: OSuzanna, Sunday, September 16, 2007, 5:30pm; Reply: 11
diffy, I agree with Debra+, and thanks, mikeo, for the insight!
The corn in that cookie, and probably whatever oil was used to make it as well, would have had me suffering similar reactions. Corn does a lot more harm than we give it credit. IMHO
And, yes, it can be tough being a Nonnie Princess (or Prince.)
Posted by: Victoria, Sunday, September 16, 2007, 7:17pm; Reply: 12
When we all used to eat lots of avoids, our poor bodies didn't have many choices.  The better choice seemed to be "just adapt".  That's why we had no obvious reaction to things that wipe us out now.  But years of eating avoids without obvious reactions does not mean that damage is not being done to our bodies.  People who appear to be healthy, show up with horrible diseases, or "drop dead" from a heart attack.  Serious diseases develop gradually and then it can be very difficult to turn ones' health around.  

When we feed our bodies only what they need to be healthy, we are giving our bodies a choice.  If they can't handle something we are feeding them, they may tell us!  And the bargain is that we need to listen and respond appropriately.  :-)
Posted by: Drea, Sunday, September 16, 2007, 8:13pm; Reply: 13
I find that the more compliant I am, the worse I feel when I eat an avoid. I think of it as the more cleaned out my system is, the faster my system will alert me that an avoid has been detected.
Posted by: Rex, Sunday, September 16, 2007, 8:35pm; Reply: 14
Happy Rosh Hashana Diffy...you're better off staying away from the avoids...they will do you no good...ever.  I've tried it a few times with coffee and I paid the price...I got constipated almost immediately.  
Posted by: 348 (Guest), Sunday, September 16, 2007, 8:56pm; Reply: 15
I'm incredulous at how rebellious a body I have!  Kind of in line with my rebellious personality, lol
Posted by: Becky, Sunday, September 16, 2007, 10:22pm; Reply: 16
Diffy, your body is smarter than you give it credit for.   And yes, I can see how you would call it rebellious....and a real pain.  
Sometimes, you just have to decide if the pain and irritation later is worth the momentary satisfaction.  And sometimes I must admit....I choose the latter.   And then my poor body is left to tell my silly brian why I don't eat that way anymore.  That's my rebellious self.

Tradition and eating go hand in hand, and it is so hard to have a holiday go by without your favorite things enjoyed.
Posted by: 348 (Guest), Monday, September 17, 2007, 2:38am; Reply: 17
If only it was about tradition, dear! Why, I can't have any apples all year long! My favorite fruit! sigh. I used to eat at least one a day! And honey on my buckweat, yum!
Posted by: Lola, Monday, September 17, 2007, 3:51am; Reply: 18
Quoted Text
apples all year long! My favorite fruit! sigh. I used to eat at least one a day!

.....and kept the Dr away, for sure!! ;)
Posted by: 348 (Guest), Monday, September 17, 2007, 5:34am; Reply: 19
hahaha Lola :)
Posted by: ISA-MANUELA (Guest), Monday, September 17, 2007, 10:02am; Reply: 20
you see diffy, that's why we call us the *royals*......coz we are soo poor hitten with all those baddies :-(
that it makes us strong in not getting into temptations temple ;) :D ....and the biggest problem I see is, that we are educated with a certain habit for foods, preferences will popp in later......and now go for a
change .....:-/ not that easy but with BTD I found out it wüürrrgs (works) more easily than with any other diet....... I grew up in mediteranian area....so I do still this cucina but let the AB-nonnie thing as best as I can away.....( I try it ;) ) Fruits aren't the big problems to me; but white chocolate, sugars of all kinds :-/ I don't feel any itchy things but get fat in 5 minutes :-/.....:p ......
Posted by: Victoria, Monday, September 17, 2007, 4:35pm; Reply: 21
Quoted from ISA-MANUELA

Fruits aren't the big problems to me; but white chocolate, sugars of all kinds :-/ I don't feel any itchy things but get fat in 5 minutes :-/.....:p ......


That would be an interesting thing to observe.  5 minutes, and . . voila!  FAT!  

(Just kidding, Isa!!)   :K)
Posted by: Debra+, Monday, September 17, 2007, 5:40pm; Reply: 22
Quoted from Victoria


That would be an interesting thing to observe.  5 minutes, and . . voila!  FAT!  

(Just kidding, Isa!!)   :K)



Must be like when we O's eat wheat and it feels like every cell in your body is about the explode from bloatedness.  ;) :K)

Debra :)
Posted by: 348 (Guest), Monday, September 17, 2007, 7:05pm; Reply: 23
OH yes! I can attest to that! You gotta come see it to believe it: Whether it be a fruit, ice cream, cookies/cake....with every bite I take, as it makes its way down my esophagus and into my tummy you can actually see my tummy expanding. It is so not a joke, it is so very real! Yet it does sound funny I know...
Posted by: RHTeacher, Tuesday, September 18, 2007, 12:03am; Reply: 24
I get the sore throat reaction from corn every time.  I found that out even before I discovered ER4YT.  That is one of the reasons I believe in this so much.  I put on some lipstick once and immediately got a sore throat.  I checked the ingredients and sure enough there was corn oil in it. Now I check everything I put on my skin or into my stomach. I do have an occasional apple but don't have a severe reaction to it.  I certainly feel better when I avoid all sweeteners, except the occasional use of Agave Nectar.
Posted by: Ronagon (Guest), Tuesday, September 18, 2007, 10:44am; Reply: 25
diffy,

The up side is that, when you have all the avoids cleared out of your system, your body runs like a Lamborghini Countach on jet fuel.

...and that's a good thing.  (I think.)
Posted by: 348 (Guest), Tuesday, September 18, 2007, 1:46pm; Reply: 26
Ron, that is a worthwhile goal! Thanks for the encouragement; it'll help me keep smiling through the btd....:)
Posted by: ISA-MANUELA (Guest), Wednesday, September 19, 2007, 5:39am; Reply: 27
Victoria...but it is truth :o :o :B :X ....really :-/...... I am able to gain weight whithin days .....:P ::)....ok
I know I should move more, please tell this to my brain again tomorrow :-/.....fffttt.....I am soooo jealous about those bl. secretors who can eat sugar at their ease without getting fat ::) :B......yech what
a poor one I am  :( :'( :'( :D ;D ;D(think)(whistle)
Posted by: italybound, Wednesday, September 19, 2007, 2:47pm; Reply: 28
Quoted from diffy
You gotta come see it to believe it: Whether it be a fruit, ice cream, cookies/cake....with every bite I take, as it makes its way down my esophagus and into my tummy you can actually see my tummy expanding. .


this happened to me yesterday when eating almond butter, cocoa and agave............bloated my stomach. I was pretty  :o  about that, cause I thought it was a pretty 'compliant' snack.    :'(
Posted by: Alia Vo, Wednesday, September 19, 2007, 11:21pm; Reply: 29
Some individuals find that they tolerate avoid foods better the longer they have been practicing this lifestyle; while others find that they are overly senstivite to avoids if they eat a new avoid food item or reintroduce something that they have not eaten for a long period of time.

This varies from individual to individual and is dependent on one's personal cellular make-up, their past eating habits, and their present food choices.

Alia
Posted by: Curious, Wednesday, October 17, 2007, 7:51am; Reply: 30
I had half a glass of ginger beer yesterday and my leg was double as painful as normally throughout the night. Must have been the sugar in it.  :'(
Posted by: Lola, Wednesday, October 17, 2007, 8:56pm; Reply: 31
hope you feel better soon!
Posted by: Curious, Wednesday, October 17, 2007, 11:44pm; Reply: 32
Thanks Lola, I think I am one of those nonnies that should not eat any avoids at all. It takes quite a while to get them out of my system.
Posted by: Lola, Thursday, October 18, 2007, 1:15am; Reply: 33
;) yeah we need to be extra careful!
Posted by: Victoria, Thursday, October 18, 2007, 2:53am; Reply: 34
Quoted from Curious
I think I am one of those nonnies that should not eat any avoids at all.


That's me too!   8)
Posted by: Ron-O-Non (Guest), Friday, October 19, 2007, 10:27am; Reply: 35
Curious,

I found that I really, really have to avoid carbs.  Like mad.  I'm willing to bet that if I ever took the Lewis test, I just might be a double-negative, because of all the crazy sensitivities I've always had.
Posted by: Lola, Friday, October 19, 2007, 4:14pm; Reply: 36
join the club! lol
Posted by: teri, Friday, October 19, 2007, 7:44pm; Reply: 37
Does anyone share my thought that it might be healthy to re-introduce avoids periodically just to remind the body what they are and what it's function is supposed to be towards them? I don't recall reading anything about the long term effects of being fully compliant (if that's even possible). So then, I was wondering if one of the drawbacks of being so healthy and being fully compliant over a long period of time might possibly be that the our bodies would forget how they used to deal with avoids. Could it be like an allergy (the stronger the reaction each time), so that, if fully compliant for a long enough period, and then along came an avoid, that it might become life threatening at some point instead of just a tummy ache as it used to be. So I wonder how safe the BTD is in that regard.

teri
Posted by: Lola, Friday, October 19, 2007, 8:38pm; Reply: 38
it fortifies your immune system to deal with life threatening disease, and not waist time in constantly dealing with pesky avoids, and unnecesary inflammation!!

how wrong can that be?
Posted by: Ron-O-Non (Guest), Saturday, October 20, 2007, 12:34am; Reply: 39
Quoted Text
Does anyone share my thought that it might be healthy to re-introduce avoids periodically just to remind the body what they are and what it's function is supposed to be towards them? I don't recall reading anything about the long term effects of being fully compliant (if that's even possible). So then, I was wondering if one of the drawbacks of being so healthy and being fully compliant over a long period of time might possibly be that the our bodies would forget how they used to deal with avoids. Could it be like an allergy (the stronger the reaction each time), so that, if fully compliant for a long enough period, and then along came an avoid, that it might become life threatening at some point instead of just a tummy ache as it used to be. So I wonder how safe the BTD is in that regard.


teri,

I've had the exact same thoughts as you in regard to it perhaps being important to "clarify" and "remind" the body about the dangers of avoids, by indulging in the want to "cheat" on the diet.  I think that cheating -- provided it's done with a kind of conscious, monitoring eye towards the change of physiological state that the body is going through -- is of vital importance in terms of a healthy retraining of dietary habits.

However, I don't think that the answer lies in simply forcing or acclimating your body to accept avoids.  I say this because I've struggled with serious allergies and irritable bowel syndrome all my life due to the foods I'd been eating, and no "acclimation" ever, ever occurred.  All that happened was that I probably have sustained irreversible, permanent damage to my GI tract and bodily development, as so much of my biochemical energy over the years was diverted towards fighting a never-ending immune battle, and driving inflammatory reactions.

It wasn't until the BTD that I ever had any understanding of why I'd been going through hell for all those years, or how I could possibly control when I had such disorders.  So, I'm afraid that the option of "toughening up" my body with avoids just isn't an option for me, much as we'd all like to be tougher in general.
Posted by: ABJoe, Saturday, October 20, 2007, 8:07pm; Reply: 40
Quoted from teri
Does anyone share my thought that it might be healthy to re-introduce avoids periodically just to remind the body what they are and what it's function is supposed to be towards them? I don't recall reading anything about the long term effects of being fully compliant (if that's even possible). So then, I was wondering if one of the drawbacks of being so healthy and being fully compliant over a long period of time might possibly be that the our bodies would forget how they used to deal with avoids. Could it be like an allergy (the stronger the reaction each time), so that, if fully compliant for a long enough period, and then along came an avoid, that it might become life threatening at some point instead of just a tummy ache as it used to be. So I wonder how safe the BTD is in that regard.

teri


Teri,

Since there are not antibodies that are built when eating avoids, I don't think that there will be any benefits to eating them occasionally.  The reason the body reacts less (or seems to...) when you have been very non-compliant is that:
  1) it doesn't have the energy to react more
  2) the nerve centers have been so overloaded (and numbed) that you din't feel it with the same intensity.

As an example of the nerve center overload:  When I first stopped eating all corn products, it took three weeks to clear the corn junk adequately to feel an "spaciousness" in my head/neck area...  Just a slight amount a week later triggered a massive headache (akin to cranial lightning flashes) that took two days to be a dull compressed feeling in the same head/neck area that had just been spacious feeling and a week to return to the spacious feeling.

Posted by: Curious, Sunday, October 21, 2007, 2:35am; Reply: 41
Teri,
I also think it is not worth eating the avoids. I tried sheep-milk yoghurt a while ago (did not have my secretor test result and thought that I could have it if I am a secretor). The first day after I had tried it I was fine, I tried it again the next evening and the following morning I woke up with very bad stomach/bowel cramps (my test-results a few days later showed that I was a non-secretor). I definitely won't eat milk products again because I don't want to have this reaction again.
However, it is completely up to you how you deal with the issue. I have some friends (she is a B, he is an O) and he has strong reactions when he eats wheat. So they decided to take an allergy test (by a kinesiologist) and it turned out he is strongly allergic to wheat. The kinesiologist did some treatment with him and she proudly told me the other day, that her O-husband can now join her for breakfast by drinking cafe late and eating a bagel. I am horrified by this and wonder what it will do to his health in the long-run - but it is their choice.
Posted by: Lola, Sunday, October 21, 2007, 2:53am; Reply: 42
allergologists  rave over their immunizations!
I shudder at the thought!

perhaps if they wanted to immunize me being allergic to a superbeneficial, I might think about it!
but an avoid! no way!

I have successfully converted an allergologist from Barcelona, she will be doing secretor testing at her lab and wants to 'go by the BTD book' so to speak!
when we have gone out for dinner, she asks me to order for her, being also an O!
now that s what I call progress!! LOL
Posted by: Curious, Sunday, October 21, 2007, 2:57am; Reply: 43
Quoted from lola
I have successfully converted an allergologist from Barcelona,


That is brilliant, Lola!
Posted by: Lola, Sunday, October 21, 2007, 3:10am; Reply: 44
she goes to every 'antiaging society congress' around the world as invited profesor
telling people what to eat!!!
I m sure she s doing a bit of editing by now, to the presentations she normally gives.
I have great respect for her open minded scientific professionalism, wish more people were like her!

just like you 'curious'!! excellent combination!
;)
Posted by: teri, Sunday, October 21, 2007, 5:48pm; Reply: 45
I wrote this response several hours ago but it seems to have disappeared, so here goes again...

Quoted Text
Some individuals find that they tolerate avoid foods better the longer they have been practicing this lifestyle; while others find that they are overly senstivite to avoids if they eat a new avoid food item or reintroduce something that they have not eaten for a long period of time.

This varies from individual to individual and is dependent on one's personal cellular make-up, their past eating habits, and their present food choices.


This is so interesting. The human body is such an amazing organism, always adapting and ever evolving. I wonder if a new blood type will emerge one day, one that will be tolerant of the abundant food choices that are available nowadays. Unfortunately, none of us would benefit from that miracle. So then, I am looking forward to reaping the rewards of eating a diet that is compliant with my BT for the rest of my life! To gain better knowledge of my own body along the way, though, I will probably test it periodically. Maybe one day I will have the same faith that you all seem to have in the safety of the BTD long term and not feel the need to do the tests any more.

One thing that I have noticed so far on this diet (one week now) is that my edema has disappeared. Something that I had lingering in my left ankle since my long flight to Florida in May. I am not sure exactly what to attribute this to. It may be the addition of blackstrap molasses to my diet, which I have read has many natural curing abilities, including edema, or it may be the elimination of wheat products, or maybe both. So already I'm feeling the need to get to the source. But maybe not this time. It just feels good not to be bothered by it any more.

All of your comments are very encouraging, "thanks".

teri
Posted by: Lola, Sunday, October 21, 2007, 6:07pm; Reply: 46
teri,
keep on doing what you are doing and thrive!
Posted by: Mrs T O+, Monday, October 29, 2007, 2:23pm; Reply: 47
It's amazing how unique we all are. Some avoids make me feel miserable while potatoes make me feel good.  
Certain food combinations affect me also-some more than others.
I have been cheating in that area & am getting a sore throat now & have had a certain cough for a long time.
I was wondering the same thing about reactions discussed in this thread, but realize we are all exposed to pollution, etc. all the time. So I think we get our 'innoculation' of avoids anyway.
Cheerio,
Mrs "T"   O+
Posted by: 521 (Guest), Wednesday, October 31, 2007, 9:26am; Reply: 48
The O-nonnie diet is unbelievably primitive... essentially savage.  I can't believe how much meat I require.  I actually get a serious jonesing for red meat and oily fish.
Posted by: SquarePeg, Wednesday, October 31, 2007, 4:57pm; Reply: 49
My ND actually said that if I were to completely cut out wheat, I would be more sensitive to it.

Also, I'm not overweight, but my stomach expands noticeably when I cave in to desserts.  So I hear, "Daddy's having a baby," and similar comments.

My wife (Type A) wants to test our daughter's blood type and put her on the BTD.  Meanwhile, my wife and I have been eating fewer common avoids (like wheat) for several weeks.  Our daughter (almost 10yo) eats great, BTW.  Of course she loves mac-n-cheese and pizza.  But she'll wolf down such foods as brocolli, peas, string beans, steak, salmon, cod, tofu, eggs and turkey sausage, miso soup -- all the stuff we typically eat.

Last week, my wife made a big mac-n-cheese casserole, and my daughter and I binged on sweets at a Halloween dance.  She caught a bad cold the next day.  I think it was all the sugar (M&Ms and cookies), so I'm actually somewhat opposed to putting our daughter on the diet for this reason.  What could she have for lunch at school?  Or at sleepovers and Girl Scout campouts?  She very preceptively asked me, "Why is it that my classmates can eat all kinds of junk food and not get sick, but when I eat it I get sick?"  That's a simplification, of course, but there is some truth to it.

OTOH, she has progress from being diagnosed with mild autism 5.5 years ago, to Asperger Syndrome.  Nutrition (Mega B6 & Magnesium especially) definitely played a role in that improvement.  Some kids respond miraculously to gluten-free / caisen-free diets or to the Feingold diet.  So if the BTD can help her in this area, I'd go for it.
Posted by: Crimson, Friday, February 22, 2008, 1:39am; Reply: 50
I started on the btd near two years ago. I've changed parts of my six year old daughter's diet to fit mine. We're all the same O blood type here. *Thankfully*
There is quite a difference in her when she eats wheat and when I cut most of it. I notice that she puts on weight when she eats many avoids. It's not a large difference. But interesting.

I'll be having my secreter test likely by monday.
I decided to cut carbs and sugar a bit. No real reason for it.
Just to see if I could, I suppose. A week after I went back to eating normal O blood type diet and got really sick. I'm still trying to shake it.
I'll honestly be shocked if I'm NOT a non secreter.
Posted by: TJ, Monday, February 25, 2008, 9:13pm; Reply: 51
Quoted from Crimson
I'll honestly be shocked if I'm NOT a non secreter.


Yeah, that's what I thought too, once I learned about ABO secretor status.  It explained a lot!
Posted by: Crimson, Tuesday, February 26, 2008, 1:22am; Reply: 52
The test is being mailed out tomorrow.
How long does it take before they post the results on the webpage?
Posted by: Heidi, Tuesday, February 26, 2008, 2:27am; Reply: 53
I sent my sample on the 5th, it arrived on the 8th and my results were ready for viewing on the 20th. So, 12 days from the time it arrived at the lab.
I just read about someone who had results in less then a week. The time frame must vary quite a bit.  :-/
Posted by: Lola, Tuesday, February 26, 2008, 3:47am; Reply: 54
keep checking the page for results.....
Posted by: Crimson, Tuesday, February 26, 2008, 4:11am; Reply: 55
Will do. Thank you.
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