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Posted by: jayney-O (Guest), Sunday, October 8, 2006, 8:23pm
I am in an insomnia cycle, which is not new to me, but the first time since BTD....I resorted to ambien, (for the last 2 weeks) which is a sleeping pill, but now want to ditch that since it is habit forming...I have used theanine and gaba in the past but I think gaba is not ok for O's....am wondering why if anyone knows, cuz it seemed to help in the past...am also using rhodiola.
Posted by: Lola, Sunday, October 8, 2006, 9:13pm; Reply: 1
valerian drops as well as magnesium before bed.
Posted by: italybound, Monday, October 9, 2006, 2:18am; Reply: 2
don't know about the gaba, but magnesium taken before bed is supposed to help you sleep. Also a little lavendar sachet or oil might help. Chamomielle (sp?) tea is also supposed to be relaxing, tho you might want to check that for your BT if you should try it. :-)  Good luck, I've been thru the no sleep cycle myself and it's definitely no fun.
Posted by: 794 (Guest), Monday, October 9, 2006, 6:36pm; Reply: 3
Yoga for stress helped me and more veggies.  Melatonin may help.
Posted by: Jane, Monday, October 9, 2006, 6:54pm; Reply: 4
I've been having the same problem.  I take my cal-mag-zinc before bed and it doesn't help me much.  I also take Catechol in the morning.  There's rhodiola in that.  Maybe I should split the dose and take some at night.  I'm on suppressive doses of thyroid meds because I had a thyroid cancer years ago.  I've often thought that that contributes to my sleep problems.  I don't ever remember being able to sleep 8 hours.  The most I EVER get is 6 and even then it's interrupted sleep.  I'd love to wake up and feel really rested.  I don't know what that means!
Jane
Posted by: jayney-O (Guest), Monday, October 9, 2006, 7:49pm; Reply: 5
Thanks, everyone! Lola, I will get valerian in the tincture form...
Jane, I have the same pattern....thyroid does have an effect...hmmm, wonder...well, just had TSH levels tested, standard blood workup, can't put too much stock in that, but will see.
I did ok last night....kind of surfing through sleep, better than the night before... 1st night off sleeping pills. So I was relieved...sensing that it will get better. A friend told me Hashimoto's syndrome (suppressed thyroid, I believe) kept her from sleep until she got treatment. I take the Rhodiola in the day, but I feel it helps me regulate cortisol (what its supposed to do) and I also take a timed release melatonin which helps. Will let you know whats working. thanks, jayney-0
Posted by: carlzwench, Monday, October 9, 2006, 8:24pm; Reply: 6
I've read that valerian may require weeks to reach its full effects in some people.  If that doesn't work for you right away, you can try Melatonin or Tryptophan.  In the brain, tryptophan is converted to serotonin and melatonin, which are natural sleep-inducing compounds.  The one drawback of melatonin is the groginess the next morning.  Tryptophan is also in turkey, chicken, eggs and almonds; all possibilities if you don't want to take the supplement.

Low nighttime blood glucose levels might also have something to do with your insomnia.  When there is a drop in the blood glucose level, it causes the release of hormones that regulate glucose levels, such as adrenaline, glucagon, cortisol, and growth hormone. These compounds stimulate the brain. They are a natural signal that it is time to eat.

Good bedtime snacks to keep blood sugar levels steady throughout the night are oatmeal and other whole grain cereals, whole grain breads and muffins, and other complex carbohydrates. These foods will not only help maintain blood sugar levels, they actually can help promote sleep by increasing the level of serotonin within the brain.  Granted, we type O's have few complex carbs to choose from, but there are some on the neutral lists we can have.  



Posted by: italybound, Monday, October 9, 2006, 10:05pm; Reply: 7
Quoted from carlzwench
Good bedtime snacks to keep blood sugar levels steady throughout the night are oatmeal and other whole grain cereals, whole grain breads and muffins, and other complex carbohydrates.


I have relugated rice and oats to night time only, as they make me VERY sleepy. I really haven't tried it out yet, as I usually sleep well once I get in bed. Getting there is the problem.


Quoted from jane
I don't ever remember being able to sleep 8 hours.  The most I EVER get is 6 and even then it's interrupted sleep.  I'd love to wake up and feel really rested.


jane I was talking w/ my chiro the other day about doing a saliva test for hormones. We talked for some time and in that talk we realized my cortisol is probably upside down. I am ALWAYS tired when I wake. Always. I cannot remember the last time I woke feeling rested or that I didn't resist getting out of bed. At night, however, when I SHOULD be getting to bed, I can think of 10 things I 'need' to do to stay up. I'm doing a saliva panel today for  cortisol and DHEA ( I guess for DHEA too - need to ask tomorrow ) .  Today has been miserable as I have one whopper of a headache, a sore throat and generally feel like I'm coming down w/ something. Didn't feel like this until this morning but realize that when I drink fruit juice w/ gerolsteiner, I usually wind up like this. (had a couple of glasses of this yest - blueberry/pomegranate w/ the gerol).     I am continually perplexed by this as the gerol is supposed to be beneficial, as so the blueberry and pom is a neutral. Regardless, I'm done w/ all that. It doesn't like me, even if I like it.  Good luck to me on sleeping tonight. This might be an oatmeal night. :-)
In the Cort/DHEA testing, we'll see how my adrenals are doing - which I already know - cr*ppy. :-(          I will be anxiously awaiting my results. If you're waking up tired all the time and can find reasons to stay awake at night, your cortisol might be out of whack too.  http://www.drlam.com has a good article on adrenal fatigue. One other sign of fatigued adrenals is being tired between 3-5 in the afternoon. Along w/ a whole slew of other symptoms. The lopsided cort/DHEA are also assoc w/ adrenals. Hope you can get a good nights sleep soon, as I KNOW what it's like not to have good rest. Makes you tired AND even cranky, eventually. :-)
Posted by: Lola, Monday, October 9, 2006, 10:17pm; Reply: 8
Quoted Text
Good bedtime snacks to keep blood sugar levels steady throughout the night are oatmeal and other whole grain cereals, whole grain breads and muffins, and other complex carbohydrates.


bet you some sweet potato would do the trick!
no need for grain consumption to achieve this.
Posted by: italybound, Monday, October 9, 2006, 11:44pm; Reply: 9
Quoted from lola
bet you some sweet potato would do the trick!


ah, good idea. will keep the oat/rice thingee in the back of my mind........just in case :-)
why not try a bennie versus a neutral and for me, an infrequent neutral. :-)
Posted by: resting, Tuesday, October 10, 2006, 12:19am; Reply: 10
many years ago tryptophan was touted as the sleeping agent of choice... either warm (not hot) milk or banana [either, just before bed] .... might help?

John
Posted by: Lola, Tuesday, October 10, 2006, 12:34am; Reply: 11
anyone know why cocoa powder isn t listed either on typebase or in the health series books but chocolate is?

carob powder is, though.
Posted by: Victoria, Tuesday, October 10, 2006, 12:59am; Reply: 12
Several posters have recommended eating the carbs at night and proteins/veggies during the day.  (Don, Mikeo . . ) I started this practice a few months ago and must say it has really helped!  I'm not a person who eats flour products, so my evening meal is baked sweet potato with ghee and baked fish.  Then I have a lightly toasted rice cake with nut butter.  I also take my sublingual B 12/folic acid at night as Dr. D. suggested somewhere.
I sleep much better than I have in a long time.  Usually 6 solid hours, and then lighter sleep for the next 2 or 3.
Posted by: italybound, Tuesday, October 10, 2006, 2:06am; Reply: 13
Quoted from Victoria
 I also take my sublingual B 12/folic acid at night as Dr. D. suggested somewhere.I sleep much better than I have in a long time.  Usually 6 solid hours, and then lighter sleep for the next 2 or 3.


Wow!  I would've thought the B vits would keep one awake! Guess I could try to take mine at night. I take several vits at night because of the fact that nightime is when the body does repair work, but was afraid of the B's.  Thanks!
Posted by: OSuzanna, Tuesday, October 10, 2006, 2:37am; Reply: 14
I, too, tend to start housework late at night if my nose isn't in a book, and am a *relatively* reluctant riser (less reluctant since BTD!) ;) in the a.m. (just look at my sign-in sheet at the office!) ;)  A magnesium & 2 melatonins at night before be seem to help a lot. Sorry, don't know the mg.'s off hand.
Night is magical. I've done most of my best painting & drawing in the wee hours.
I've known a number of people whose difficulties rising in the a.m. turned out to be due to sleep apnea. Various fixes, from surgery to machinery, made a world of difference for them. Make sure to check that out as a possibility if it is not a known factor.
Best of luck and my sympathies from a sometime insomniac!
B-12 at night????? I always used it as a boost during the day! Will have to try it on a Friday or Saturday night, when I can afford time to recover from a screw-up....
Posted by: italybound, Tuesday, October 10, 2006, 3:15am; Reply: 15
Quoted from osuzanna
B-12 at night????? I always used it as a boost during the day! Will have to try it on a Friday or Saturday night, when I can afford time to recover from a screw-up....


Ewwww, better idea. I think I'll wait as well. I'm just getting ready to do my 4th and final spit test for my coritsol. I just can't wait to get the results and get something done. I'm so sick of dragging out of bed in the morning. And I do mean dragging. I will sleep the last 10 seconds, if given a choice. Or try to sleep anyway. You get my drift :-)
Posted by: OSuzanna, Tuesday, October 10, 2006, 1:18pm; Reply: 16
Absolutely, my dear!  one woman's philosophy: Snooze alarms - I figure they just interrupt sleep you could be having! Set the alarm for when you must get up, and put it out of arm's reach (that way you can't shut it off and fall back asleep by accident!) Not that I follow my own advice half the time!  ;)
Posted by: jayney-O (Guest), Tuesday, October 10, 2006, 6:10pm; Reply: 17
Italybound,
You may want to try the rhodiola...regulates cortisol...I'm using it, and I feel it helps as a piece of the arsenal....but after you get your test results. good luck, jayney-0
Posted by: Victoria, Tuesday, October 10, 2006, 10:11pm; Reply: 18
I wasn't recommending that anyone take the B complex at night.  I think it would keep you awake!

Dr. D suggested somewhere that B 12 would help with sleep if taken at night, so that's why I take only  that one, and it works.  Mine happens to contain Folic Acid also, and that doesn't seem to have any impact on my sleep.

If and when I find his own words on the subject, I'll post it.  I know it exists, because we discussed this on another thread some months ago, an I found the quote at that time.
Posted by: italybound, Wednesday, October 11, 2006, 2:47am; Reply: 19
jayney-O, I will have to get some of that rhodiola.What exactly do you mean by "regulates cortisol"?  Mine is upside down, most likely. Seems like it by symptoms anyway. I'm very curious how that is fixed. Is this an NAP product?
Posted by: Victoria, Wednesday, October 11, 2006, 3:28am; Reply: 20
You can get Rhodiola at any good natural food store, Italy.

And HERE is the link to NAP's product featuring Rhodiola.
Posted by: Vicki, Wednesday, October 11, 2006, 3:37am; Reply: 21
The Encyclopedia lists B12 at bedtime to reset your circadian rhythm.  
Posted by: italybound, Wednesday, October 11, 2006, 12:55pm; Reply: 22
Quoted from Victoria
You can get Rhodiola at any good natural food store, Italy.And HERE is the link to NAP's product featuring Rhodiola.


thanks for the info and link. I actually think I have some of the NAP stuff. will have to take a look today.
Vicki, thanks for the info on B12. I think that will prob wind up being one of the supps I take to get my cortisol back in check. I did a spit test yest for that, but dropped the last cotton roll in the sink!!! So now I have to do it over. The test is $150 so I want it to be RIGHT. :-)
Posted by: jayney-O (Guest), Wednesday, October 11, 2006, 4:34pm; Reply: 23
don't know what "regulates cortisol" means but hope it means evens it out, normalizes.
Posted by: Victoria, Wednesday, October 11, 2006, 4:47pm; Reply: 24
Quoted from Vicki
The Encyclopedia lists B12 at bedtime to reset your circadian rhythm.  


Thank you Vicki.  Where is it located in the Encyclopedia?
Posted by: italybound, Wednesday, October 11, 2006, 4:49pm; Reply: 25
Quoted from Victoria
Thank you Vicki.  Where is it located in the Encyclopedia?


I was wondering this also, as I looked in the Ency and didn't see this particular thing mentioned under B12. thanks Vicki :-)
Posted by: Lola, Wednesday, October 11, 2006, 5:56pm; Reply: 26
http://www.dadamo.com/bloggers/ask/archives/00000032.htm
this one is worth reading on B12
Posted by: Vicki, Wednesday, October 11, 2006, 8:16pm; Reply: 27
It is located under Fatigue Fighting Protocol.
Posted by: italybound, Wednesday, October 11, 2006, 8:28pm; Reply: 28
Quoted from Vicki
It is located under Fatigue Fighting Protocol.


ahhhh, thanks Vicki :-)
Posted by: Victoria, Thursday, October 12, 2006, 1:31am; Reply: 29
Quoted from Vicki
It is located under Fatigue Fighting Protocol.


Yup!  That's it!   ;D

Thanks, Vicki!  

And also thank you Lola for another wonderfully appropriate link!   :K)
Posted by: Lola, Thursday, October 12, 2006, 2:00am; Reply: 30
;)
Posted by: Mrs T O+, Thursday, October 12, 2006, 12:54pm; Reply: 31
As I scanned this thread, I saw B12 mentioned.  For some it is a stimulant & will cause insomnia.   That happened to me about 2 years ago.  I got some B12 & only took a small fraction of the tablet & Bingo! got insomnia.  Then I read that for some it causes insomnia & for others helps them sleep.
Try doing without it.
Personally, I am a magnesium fan!
Posted by: Victoria, Thursday, October 12, 2006, 3:58pm; Reply: 32
Mrs T,
Do you remember if you tried the type of B 12 that Dr. D recommends in that link that Lola provided?  Evidently there is a more common form, and cheaper, that most formulas contain, and it contains trace amount of cyanide.
There is a good sublingual called No Shot that is Methylcobalamine, for those who want to try it.
Posted by: Vicki, Thursday, October 12, 2006, 4:00pm; Reply: 33
I'm sure if your body already has adequate B12, then you will not benefit from the supplement. Type A's have a harder time getting enough B12 (low stomach acid).   Seniors may also have lower stomach acid.  
Posted by: jayney-O (Guest), Thursday, October 12, 2006, 5:51pm; Reply: 34
yayyy!  Last night I slept 8 hr!!
Really, really needed it! What did I do? well, I took sustained release melatonin, valerian, (2 caps), and ....are you ready? (I'm just telling you the truth...sorry) 3 oz of red wine! I don't suppose this is generally recommended...its just how my evening went...then went to bed right after LOST. Oh, and didn't drink as much water as I usually do with my bedtime pills.....
thanks to the forces that be...
Posted by: 41 (Guest), Thursday, October 12, 2006, 6:02pm; Reply: 35
Quoted from Vicki
The Encyclopedia lists B12 at bedtime to reset your circadian rhythm.  


What is circadian rhythm?
Posted by: italybound, Thursday, October 12, 2006, 6:07pm; Reply: 36
Quoted from paulssandy@adelphia.net
What is circadian rhythm?


i believe that would be your body's 24 hour cycle.
Posted by: Lola, Thursday, October 12, 2006, 6:09pm; Reply: 37
here
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circadian_rhythm
let me know if you need more info......
Posted by: 41 (Guest), Thursday, October 12, 2006, 6:47pm; Reply: 38
Interesting article thank you.  Sandy O
Posted by: 312 (Guest), Thursday, October 12, 2006, 8:07pm; Reply: 39
Great thread!  I am taking a red eye from CA to Boston tonight and worried about sleeping on the plane.  I have some
"tranquilnight" from New Chapter ready, will pack some cal/mag and I am thinking of some nice fish and sweet potato,
maybe beef, since I am an O, instead of the fish.  Some good ideas here! (The tranquilnight is an herbal supp with valerian, hops, lavendar and not sure what else, but valerian is the main ingredient.)  Wish me luck!  ;)
Posted by: Peppermint Twist, Wednesday, November 1, 2006, 8:00pm; Reply: 40
One word...actually, it isn't a word exactly, but, well, here it is:

CoQ10

Oh, how I love this stuff and oh, how it it amazes me.

I started taking it for gum health but was pleasantly surprised that it does a lot more for me than getting and keeping my gums in fine fettle.

One beneficial side effect has been that it seems to regulate my energy.  What do I mean "regulate my energy"?  Well, it gives me this nice, gentle, subtle energy boost when I take it, but it also helps me to sleep at night.  It seems to regulate circadian rhythm, do not ask me how or what it does, but I know it affects cellular energy on a deep level.  Now that I've been taking it a while (I only take 30 mg per day, but sometimes I take 60 mg...many people take 90 or even 100 but I think 60 is about normal...I take a "less is more" approach to supplementation myself), I don't notice the energy boost as much when I take it, as I guess that feels normal/baseline to me now, but I do notice still that my sleep is more regulated (although two of my four pets are determined to mess with that, but that's another story), among other benefits like the gum health, the energy, the sense of wellbeing (I forgot to mention that--when I first started taking it a sense of wellbeing went along with the subtle energy boost...again, now that all seems baseline to me and I don't notice it as much, but it's still there), the immune-boosting qualities, etc.

Note:  If taking for insomnia, I would stick to 30 mg to at most 60 mg per day and take in the morning, because apparently high doses (90 to 100 mg per day or more) can cause insomnia in some people.  And I don't see anywhere on the net where it says it helps insomnia in any dose (edited to add correction:  it does say in the very link I provided that insomnia is one of the things people use CoQ10 for, but it is listed under a section listing things it is used for, for which its effectiveness has not been scientifically proven).  Perhaps it is just my weird nonnie self that has an "opposite" reaction to it than most people would have, but I swear by it for insomnia.  But it is beyond insomnia and into the "whole" of regulating your circadian rhythm and energy.  Hard to explain.  Gotta experience it.

Here's some info:

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/coenzyme-q10/NS_patient-coenzymeq10
Posted by: mhameline, Wednesday, November 1, 2006, 10:47pm; Reply: 41
Can anyone tell me if CoQ10 is a good suppliment for type B's?  When I saw Edna mention it for gum health I right away thought of my B husband and if it helps with getting good rest too it might overall be a good thing for him to take.  Is there a good brand to try though?
Posted by: Don, Wednesday, November 1, 2006, 10:56pm; Reply: 42
Q-gel is definitely the best form of CoQ10. Many brands sell this type of CoQ10, so pick whatever brand or source you want to as long as it is Q-gel.
Posted by: Peppermint Twist, Thursday, November 2, 2006, 1:10pm; Reply: 43
MoDon, what do you mean "Q-gel", do you mean a gelcap?  The brand I take is liquid in a gelcap.  btw, I forgot to mention that one of the many cool things about CoQ10 is that, as I understand it, it is an antioxident that is both fat and water soluable.  Most antioxidents are only one of the two (like Vitamin C is water soluable and Vitamin E is fat soluable), but CoQ10 is also called "ubiquitone" because it is soluable in both (get it?  it's "ubiquitous"?  then again that could refer to how CoQ10 is found throughout the body...okay, so I don't know WHAT the "ubiquitone" refers to...moving along...).  Alpha Lipoic Acid is another powerful antioxident that is soluable in both.

Anyway, the brand I take is Country Life, but NOT the "Maxisorb" (which says "Maxisorb" in small letters above the brand name of "Country Life"), which has a bunch of added fillery-type ingredients that I don't want.  I take just their plain, 30 mg, CoQ10 that does not say "Maxisorb" on it.
Posted by: Don, Thursday, November 2, 2006, 3:48pm; Reply: 44
Did you click on the above link for Q-GEL®?

On that page click on the Advantages of Q-Gel to read about the advantages of this form of CoQ10.

Also on that page click on the [http://www.qgel.com/ordering.html]Ordering Information[/url] to see a list of sources of this form of CoQ10, including Country Life MAXI-SORB™ products.

Here is one PubMed study on the topic of CoQ10 bioavailability.
Thus, the data from both the trials show that Q-Gel, the new solubilized form of CoQ10, is vastly superior to typical commercially available preparations of CoQ10. This means much lower doses of Q-Gel will be required to rapidly reach and maintain adequate blood CoQ10 values than with any of the other currently available products.

There are other studies involving Q-gel listed in PubMed if you want to search for and read them.
Posted by: Peppermint Twist, Thursday, November 2, 2006, 4:44pm; Reply: 45
Quoted from ironwood55
Did you click on the above link for Q-GEL®?

:o :B  Oooops--until you said that, I hadn't noticed that it was a link because the navy blue link color is so close to the black of the regular text.  Apparently (and I base the following assessment on more findings than just that I didn't notice that link), I am blind as a bat.  Anyway, had I noticed the informative link, I would not have asked you about the Q-gel.  My bad!
:B  :)

Posted by: Peppermint Twist, Thursday, November 2, 2006, 4:52pm; Reply: 46
P.S.  MoDon, I don't use the "Maxisorb" version of the Country Life, as I said, because of the other ingredients it contains, such as polysorbate 80 and sorbitol, etc., as listed in the link you provide to Country Life ("Polysorbate 80, gelatin (capsule shell), medium chain triglycerides, glycerin (capsule shell), lecithin, sorbitol, triacetin, purified water (capsule shell), titanium dioxide (color), annatto seed extract for color).  I get Country Life and it is in gelcaps but it doesn't say "Maxisorb".  I assume it is still "Q-gel", since it is in a gelcap form...although "Maxisorb" implies maximum absorbability by one's system, whereas mine just keep it to themselves as to whether they are absorbed well or not, no discussion of that on the label.  I looked earlier today when I posted for a link to a picture of the exact label on the kind I buy, but all I could find--even on Country Life's own site, which is in your later post of today--is their Maxisorb variety, complete with sorbitol, et al.
Posted by: mhameline, Thursday, November 2, 2006, 4:59pm; Reply: 47
And is the CoQ10 ok for all blood types?
Posted by: Lola, Thursday, November 2, 2006, 9:28pm; Reply: 48
I know it s ok for Os, not sure about the rest.
try a search from the main page (left margin).......there might be a few threads to help you form an opinion.

here
http://www.dadamo.com/bloggers/ask/archives/00000228.htm
Posted by: italybound, Friday, November 3, 2006, 11:04am; Reply: 49
Quoted from Vicki
Type A's have a harder time getting enough B12 (low stomach acid).    


My type A husband just got his blood work back and yep, very low on B12, actually I think it was out of range. Now taking a sublingual B12.
Posted by: Victoria, Friday, November 3, 2006, 5:07pm; Reply: 50
This is good that you and your husband are getting information to work with, Italy.  Little by little, it will all pay off.
Posted by: italybound, Friday, November 3, 2006, 5:29pm; Reply: 51
Quoted from Victoria
This is good that you and your husband are getting information to work with, Italy.  Little by little, it will all pay off.


yes, it will Victoria and thanks  :K)     while ago when he was eating I told him "I read yesterday that blood type A's are more liable than any other blood type to be deficient in B12. Is that a co-een-kee-deen-kee? (in a playful tone) (coincidence) yes, when trying to share info w/ him, I sometimes make it playful. feel it goes over better that way. could just be wishful thinking on my part tho. LOL.  but at least he didn't roll his eyes. :-)
Posted by: jayney-O (Guest), Friday, November 3, 2006, 7:25pm; Reply: 52
And Italy, did you get some lab report work back related to adrenals?
Posted by: italybound, Friday, November 3, 2006, 7:48pm; Reply: 53
not yet jayney-O but I am anxiously awaiting them. Chiro did put me on sylimarin to cleanse my liver tho. Something about my ferritin being low and told me not to be taking any iron or chromium right now. Just read last night on the Dr. Oz/Oprah thread that a sluggish liver can make you gain weight. More and more is starting to come together. And my DH says I read too much........... LOL
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