Print Topic - Archive

BTD Forums  /  Nonnie Clubhouse  /  ? about test for nonnie status
Posted by: skoriginal, Tuesday, September 19, 2006, 2:43pm
Good morning!  I was wondering if there is a blood test that you can get to determine your secretor status, or if you need to do the saliva test to determine your status.  Please let me know if there's a blood test -- and what that test is, if it exists.  Thanks SO much! :)  Stefani
Posted by: Don, Tuesday, September 19, 2006, 2:49pm; Reply: 1
The blood test for your Lewis type will tell you most of the time what your secretor status is, but it is not the best way to do it.
Quoted from Some people on other internet boards claim that blood testing for secretor status is superior to the saliva test. Is that true?
http://www.dadamo.com/errata/smartfaq.cgi?cat=1075205564#1075206948

Dr. D'Adamo had this to say about differences in secretor testing: "Having done 5000 Lewis typing tests in the clinic over the last 15 years, and about 400 salivary inhibition studies, I can safely say that saliva testing is more accurate than blood. The reason being that the agglutinations that are used to determine Lewis types are very delicate (weak antibody reaction) and can easily be misinterpreted, unlike ABO which makes a big glop that you cannot miss (strong antibody). I've even seen conflicting results from two different MedPath labs, especially if the staff is not trained well enough." The subject is discussed in more depth in one of the Science Knowledge Base Entries.
Posted by: Lola, Thursday, May 24, 2007, 9:40pm; Reply: 2
Just got my test results from the serotyping panel I had done in Phoenix, right at the SWCNM lab, together with Don and Kate and her friend.

Turns out I m not only a lewis double negative but also an NN!!!

so I ll just line up in the queue for nonnies, too!!

wow, I m just so grateful I now have the knowledge and understanding of my uniqueness!!

and my signature phrase holds truth:
The harder you are on yourself, the easier life will be on you!

deep down inside I just knew ........

ok let me hear your thoughts and info you might want to share with me on this....
thanks! ;)
Posted by: Don, Thursday, May 24, 2007, 10:13pm; Reply: 3
Quoted from Dr. D's 2005 Polymorphisms presentation.
NN Subtype

In the USA - NN 22% of whites & 26% of blacks
  • Decreased risk of stroke.

  • Slight association with longevity especially in women.

  • Tendency to hypertension.

  • Cholesterol levels, especially LDL, respond well to a reduction of dietary fat and cholesterol.

Posted by: Don, Thursday, May 24, 2007, 11:29pm; Reply: 4
Quoted from METABOLIC AND IMMUNOLOGIC CONSEQUENCES OF ABH SECRETOR STATUS
http://www.dadamo.com/knowbase/subtype/subtype2.htm
However, it may be helpful to think of LDN individuals as a special category of non-secretor, since they do lack the Lewis b antigen (like the traditional ABH non-secretors). In most instances LDNs share the same metabolic consequences as ABH non-secretors, and in a few, such as cardiovascular disease and insulin resistance, actually have the most severe variations.
Posted by: Lola, Thursday, May 24, 2007, 11:35pm; Reply: 5
thanks Don!
keep those thought coming, if you happen to bump into them.

How does one find out if one is an Oa or an Oo or an Ob?
why didn t they test us for that in the lab?
Posted by: Don, Thursday, May 24, 2007, 11:38pm; Reply: 6
Quoted from SECRETOR DETERMINATION: SALIVA VERSUS LEWIS TYPING
http://www.dadamo.com/knowbase/subtype/subtype6.htm
Anywhere from 2-5% of the population are so-called 'Lewis double negatives' meaning that they do not manufacture Lewis (a) and so cannot make Lewis (b). In this category of individuals (including yourself) Lewis typing cannot be used to infer secretor status; only saliva will do.

The Lewis typing for secretor determination is a 'quick and dirty' method of secretor determination; that is the nature of the beast. So in those individuals who are double Lewis negative (a-b-) I have advised that it is best to consider them 'non-secretors,' (since they do share many of the same disease susceptibilities and metabolic disturbances of non-secretors) until saliva testing discloses otherwise.

In this ... case, the saliva testing, versus the Lewis typing, yielded the more accurate result of secretor status, but knowing he is a double Lewis negative is a valuable piece of information as well.

Lola, maybe you should have done the saliva secretor test while you were at the conference too.

Your results are making me wonder if I should have done the Lewis typing too, in addition to the MN testing I had done?
Posted by: Don, Thursday, May 24, 2007, 11:39pm; Reply: 7
If you are type O then you have to oo, since o is recessive to both A and B.
Posted by: Lola, Thursday, May 24, 2007, 11:45pm; Reply: 8
Quoted Text
Tendency to hypertension.

http://www.dadamo.com/forum/archivea/config.pl?read=86070
LR4YT says about the advantages of being heterozygous (MN), the homozygous MM and NN types apparently tend to have less hypertension (high blood pressure).


who has a take on this?
Posted by: Don, Thursday, May 24, 2007, 11:47pm; Reply: 9
More info on LDN: Ask Doctor D'Adamo - Rare Bird Indeed!
Posted by: Lola, Friday, May 25, 2007, 1:17am; Reply: 10
evet canim!!
feels good to really know, right?

Quoted Text
Incidentally, the NN subtype of the MNSs blood grouping system may be associated with a slight increase in longevity (especially in women) (4). This could relate to the fact that the presence of the M antigen (absent in NN blood group) increases the incidence and mortality rates of many types of cancer due to a biochemical similarity to the A and TN antigens.


from Tom s  blog
http://www.dadamo.com/bloggers/24/archives/00000042.htm
Posted by: Alia Vo, Friday, May 25, 2007, 1:24am; Reply: 11
You were fortunate to get your serotyping done to refine this lifestyle when you were in Arizona for the conference.  

This new information will empower you for even more optimal health with this lifestyle.

Alia
Posted by: Lola, Friday, May 25, 2007, 1:42am; Reply: 12
yes Alia, I sure am glad to now count with these results, which intuitively
had become a part of my lifestyle for many years.
Who knows where I would stand had I not followed my instincts.

In 2003, at the Phoenix conference, I was about to test, out of pure curiosity, but Dr Bronner then advised me not to have them done, for I was healthy then, also.
Little did we know!!! lol
I had adapted the nonnie guidelines since LR came out.......
Posted by: Whimsical, Friday, May 25, 2007, 1:45am; Reply: 13
My results:
O+
MN
Lewis a+b-

Not too exciting, but good to know...
Posted by: Drea, Friday, May 25, 2007, 2:05am; Reply: 14
Quoted from lola
Just got my test results from the serotyping panel I had done in Phoenix, right at the SWCNM lab, together with Don and Kate and her friend.

Turns out I m not only a lewis double negative but also an NN!!!

so I ll just line up in the queue for nonnies, too!!

wow, I m just so grateful I now have the knowledge and understanding of my uniqueness!!

and my signature phrase holds truth:
The harder you are on yourself, the easier life will be on you!

deep down inside I just knew ........

ok let me hear your thoughts and info you might want to share with me on this....
thanks! ;)



Congrats for finding out for sure...but I'm confused. Didn't you do the saliva test for secretor status? What part of your results make you a nonnie? Enquiring minds and all that. Thanks!
Posted by: Don, Friday, May 25, 2007, 2:32am; Reply: 15
Actually, Lola doesn't really know if she is a non-secretor or not, since she has not done the saliva secretor test. However, as quoted above Dr. D advise Lewis double negatives to follow the non-secretor guidelines until they find out their secretor status.
Posted by: Drea, Friday, May 25, 2007, 3:54am; Reply: 16
Quoted from ironwood55
Actually, Lola doesn't really know if she is a non-secretor or not, since she has not done the saliva secretor test. However, as quoted above Dr. D advise Lewis double negatives to follow the non-secretor guidelines until they find out their secretor status.


Oh, I thought because her shield was secretor, she'd had the saliva test done already. Thanks for clarifying.
Posted by: Lola, Friday, May 25, 2007, 4:22am; Reply: 17
yes Drea, actually the double negative result is a relief!

I somehow kept a nonnie lifestyle, free of grains and legumes as well as sugar and dairy....
now I know why!
Posted by: Melissa_J, Friday, May 25, 2007, 5:51am; Reply: 18
I think LDNs should follow non-secretor guidelines, whatever the saliva secretor test shows, so the saliva test is probably not necessary.  Metabolically and in most other ways, they are like non-secretors.  

If a secretor has any health issues or sensitivities, they can be well served to do Lewis testing and see if changes are necessary.  But a healthy LDN who is already following the non-secretor plan wouldn't change the plan based on saliva testing, so it would mainly be for curiousity.  Correct me if I'm wrong, though, maybe there are a few differences in the diet...
Posted by: geminisue, Friday, May 25, 2007, 9:58am; Reply: 19
Hi Lola- Glad you received the status you wanted, and felt you was!  Is this a test I can order to find out my secretor status? What is it called? where do I buy it? Price, if known? Thanks for the answers!  

Also, if I have this I don't need the regular secretor test if I am a double negative or?
Posted by: Don, Friday, May 25, 2007, 1:26pm; Reply: 20
Quoted from BTD FAQ - Some people on other internet boards claim that blood testing for secretor status is superior to the saliva test. Is that true?
http://www.dadamo.com/errata/smartfaq.cgi?answer=1075206948
Dr. D'Adamo had this to say about differences in secretor testing: "Having done 5000 Lewis typing tests in the clinic over the last 15 years, and about 400 salivary inhibition studies, I can safely say that saliva testing is more accurate than blood. The reason being that the agglutinations that are used to determine Lewis types are very delicate (weak antibody reaction) and can easily be misinterpreted, unlike ABO which makes a big glop that you cannot miss (strong antibody). I've even seen conflicting results from two different MedPath labs, especially if the staff is not trained well enough." The subject is discussed in more depth in one of the Science Knowledge Base Entries.


The NAP saliva secretor test is less expensive, less intrusive since it only requires saliva, can be done at home, and is definitive secretor test.

The Lewis blood test is available from SWCNM Medical Center Lab for $120. It requires a blood draw so you will probably have to go to a doctor's office which will require an additional cost, and if you turn out to be Lewis double negative like Lola it will not definitively tell you your secretor status. However, if you are Lewis double negative it is good to know as indicated in the quotes I posted earlier.

You can get a full BTD serotyping panel done from the Southwest College of Naturopathic Medicine.

Testing includes:
ABO type
A1 or A2 subtype (if applicable)
Rh +/-
Lewis type
MN type

You should probably make sure you have a way of getting the blood drawn before ordering the test kit. Some people have said they haven't found anyone to do it, at least without a doctor's lab order.
Posted by: Vicki, Friday, May 25, 2007, 1:35pm; Reply: 21
LDNs are recommended to follow the non-secretor diet even if they are a salivary secretor...that was my understanding anyway!
Posted by: Don, Friday, May 25, 2007, 1:41pm; Reply: 22
Read the bolded section in the quote in this post: http://www.dadamo.com/cgi-bin/Blah/Blah.pl?b=nonnie,v=display,m=1180042819,s=0,#num10
Posted by: Vicki, Friday, May 25, 2007, 1:44pm; Reply: 23
Hrm...it does end by saying that knowing lewis status is valuable as well....so how would one incorporate that into the secretor diet if they were an LDN and salivary secretor?

I believe it was stated that approximately 75% of LDNs are salivary non-secretors.  
Posted by: Don, Friday, May 25, 2007, 2:08pm; Reply: 24
Quoted from Vicki
Hrm...it does end by saying that knowing lewis status is valuable as well....so how would one incorporate that into the secretor diet if they were an LDN and salivary secretor?

Maybe use the CVD and Diabetes book recommendations instead of the standard LR4YT secretor guidelines.

Quoted from Vicki
I believe it was stated that approximately 75% of LDNs are salivary non-secretors.

Do you know where that was stated?

Per Dr. Kruzel's 2003 IfHI conference Serotyping Techniques presentation in the US 6% of whites and 22% of blacks are LDN.

Posted by: Don, Friday, May 25, 2007, 2:11pm; Reply: 25
Quoted from lola
no more of your olive oil drizzled on my omelet, Don!

No reason to avoid, or probably even cut back, on olive oil since it is listed as one of type Os top 12 heart healthy foods in the CVD book!

Posted by: Don, Friday, May 25, 2007, 2:25pm; Reply: 26
Quoted from ironwood55
Per Dr. Kruzel's 2003 IfHI conference Serotyping Techniques presentation in the US 6% of whites and 22% of blacks are LDN.

Quoted from LR4YT page7
People who are Lewis a-b- ... can be either secretors or non-secretors of blood type substances, but they will always be non-secretors of Lewis substances. In many instances, Lewis negative individuals have unique interactions with diseases, microbes, or metabolic syndromes.

... only 6% of the Caucasian population and 16% of the black population are LDN, ...

Quoted from LR4YT also has a section on MN subtyping on page 355-6
A 1983 study in the journal Clinical Genetics showed that people who typed NN had significantly higher cholesterol and triglyceride levels in their blood immmediately after being given a standard test meal.
Posted by: Lola, Friday, May 25, 2007, 2:33pm; Reply: 27
Quoted Text
NN had significantly higher cholesterol and triglyceride levels in their blood immediately after being given a standard test meal.


I can well imagine what that standard meal was like!!! ;)

Quoted Text
6% of the Caucasian population and 16% of the black population are LDN


Quoted Text
approximately 75% of LDNs are salivary non-secretors


that surely confirms my diet choices so far!!
even if I were to test as a secretor, through the salivary method, there s no way, I d change my diet!!
feel very comfortable in the nonnie zone, and I agree with Melissa on this.

I appreciate everyone s take on this!
very generous of you all to state your opinions.... :K)
Posted by: Vicki, Friday, May 25, 2007, 3:16pm; Reply: 28
From:  http://www.dadamo.com/knowbase/subtype/subtype2.htm

Quoted Text
A small section (1-4% of the population dependent on race) will be Lewis Double Negative (LDN; Lewis (a-b-)) and for which Lewis typing cannot be used to determine ABH secretor status. In these individuals determination via saliva is necessary. However, it may be helpful to think of LDN individuals as a special category of non-secretor, since they do lack the Lewis b antigen (like the traditional ABH non-secretors). In most instances LDNs share the same metabolic consequences as ABH non-secretors, and in a few, such as cardiovascular disease and insulin resistance, actually have the most severe variations.


So, when I read that, even if an LDN is a salivary secretor, they should follow the non-secretor guidelines.
Posted by: Vicki, Friday, May 25, 2007, 3:18pm; Reply: 29
More fodder:  

http://www.dadamo.com/bloggers/ask/archives/00000348.htm

Quoted Text
As far as your Double Lewis Negative (LDN) blood type, it is typically common for me to clinical consider LDNs non-secretors, even though for technical reasons, secretor status can not be imputed from you Lewis test result. If anything, metabolically, LDNs are probably ‘super-non secretors’ from a phenotype standpoint.
Posted by: Don, Friday, May 25, 2007, 3:27pm; Reply: 30
Quoted from lola
that surely confirms my diet choices so far!!
even if I were to test as a secretor, through the salivary method, there s no way, I d change my diet!!
feel very comfortable in the nonnie zone, and I agree with Melissa on this.

I consider being free of grains and legumes as well as sugar and dairy basically a strict Health Library book form of type O secretor compliancy, not a nonnie diet.

I didn't think you have been eating a nonnie diet.  For instance, I thought you told me that you haven't been eating avacados, which are beneficial for type O nonnies.  ??)
Posted by: ISA-MANUELA (Guest), Friday, May 25, 2007, 3:35pm; Reply: 31
::) @ a_c.....:B :X I think you know me a bit too well ;) huh....::) ;D :D


Lola is one of the rare Amazones....;) ;D .....sounds better than huntress ;) ;D (empress of Amazones)
but we are normally living near the Himalya....or somethin similar :-/ ..... let me have a look into your eyes ;) ;D (smarty)(shhh)(whistle)
Posted by: Don, Friday, May 25, 2007, 3:42pm; Reply: 32
I don't think a non-secretor diet is going to be the best if you are a secretor.
Posted by: Lola, Friday, May 25, 2007, 3:46pm; Reply: 33
yes Don, avocados! those will now definitely become part of my diet!!
and with a vengeance.....not having had them for so long!

and those rice cakes with almond butter at the conference!!!!
those have been stored in my precious memory bank, already!
but boy were they worth it! LOL

Mike,
National geographic, right?

need to find a way to have that test done, definitely curious!
one thing s sure, my 'mitochondrial eve' was from the deepest part of Africa, no doubt about that!!  ;)
Posted by: Drea, Friday, May 25, 2007, 4:03pm; Reply: 34
Quoted from lola

even if I were to test as a secretor, through the salivary method, there s no way, I d change my diet!!


And based on the pictures from the conference you look fabuolous eating just the way you are
Posted by: Lola, Friday, May 25, 2007, 4:12pm; Reply: 35
I did enjoy all that was served at the conference, to the fullest!!
It felt like 'falling off the wagon', but with a safety strap!! LOL

an absolute compliant carb fest! if you know what I mean......

am right back to my usual compliance now, though.................
Posted by: Lola, Saturday, May 26, 2007, 6:09am; Reply: 36
well,
our best judge is the DNA testing.......
Posted by: Vicki, Saturday, May 26, 2007, 12:36pm; Reply: 37
For fun:  http://www.myheritage.com  Check out the photo matching...
Posted by: CB, Saturday, May 26, 2007, 7:22pm; Reply: 38
So, Kate, you typed out as a Lewis negative.  I believe Lewis Positives convert their Lewis A into Lewis B, and Lewis Neg and Doublenegs don't.  And I see we have another Lewis DB (Doublenegative) and an NN to boot.   Take care.  CB.
Posted by: CB, Saturday, May 26, 2007, 11:20pm; Reply: 39
I met another LDN at the conference as well.  And another Lewis Negative.  When more people get their additional serotyping done, we'll see more.  If you ship the test to SWMC, it requires a venous draw, but if you can do it on site, it can be done with a prick according to what someone told me a year or so ago.  Take care.  CB

Isa, you are quite forgiven, please stand.  CB
Posted by: Drea, Sunday, May 27, 2007, 4:09am; Reply: 40
Forgive me if this has already been answered, but I'm still a bit confused...is it possible to test as a secretor with the saliva test, but test LDN with the serotyping test?
Posted by: Lola, Sunday, May 27, 2007, 4:28am; Reply: 41
it appears to happen, yes.
Posted by: CB, Sunday, May 27, 2007, 9:29am; Reply: 42
Drea, yes it is possible to be a secretor and yet an LDN.  I read somewhere though, 75% of LDN are non-secretor.  May be close to the same gene.  Take care.  CB.
Posted by: Lola, Tuesday, July 3, 2007, 3:25pm; Reply: 43
Don,
thanks for asking!
I ve been working on that......
too bad I didn t have it done in Phoenix!

I do know where the test can be done, but just haven t had the time to drive down to Mexico City yet.
Moving and remodelling sure is a hustle!!

How is your protocol doing so far?

Posted by: Ronagon (Guest), Wednesday, July 4, 2007, 9:07am; Reply: 44
Yes, I tried the phenylalanine, but I actually did even better on the brewer's yeast, which I'm told generates its own phenylalanine...

I also found that Deflect combined with the anti-bacterial protocol did wonders for my abdominal swelling...
Print page generated: Saturday, August 2, 2014, 9:00am